7 February 2006
Attn: Pentagon
Subject: Fix this quick
The last time 1st Lt. William “Eddie” Rebrook IV saw his body armor, he was lying on a stretcher in Iraq, his arm shattered and covered in blood.
A field medic tied a tourniquet around Rebrook’s right arm to stanch the bleeding from shrapnel wounds. Soldiers yanked off his blood-soaked body armor. He never saw it again.
But last week, Rebrook was forced to pay $700 for that body armor, blown up by a roadside bomb more than a year ago.
He was leaving the Army for good because of his injuries. He turned in his gear at his base in Fort Hood, Texas. He was informed there was no record that the body armor had been stripped from him in battle.
He was told to pay nearly $700 or face not being discharged for weeks, perhaps months.
Rebrook, 25, scrounged up the cash from his Army buddies and returned home to Charleston last Friday.
I would appreciate you giving this immediate attention.
Sincerely,
John Cole
Now I know why this happens, and I know the reason for the policy is not to hose wounded vets who are discharging, but we have been at this game long enough that this sort of shit should be sorted out by now. Although it will be fun watching the lunatic fringe trying to blame this on Bush.
Steve
Can we blame it on Rumsfeld? Perhaps you need to explain further.
Edmund Dantes
Already taken care of.
Bruce Moomaw
I see I’ve been beaten to it, but I’ll say it anyway: To what extent ISN’T this blamable on Bush, John? It’s certainly blamable on Rumsfeld.
John Cole
You people are kidding me, right?
This is a joke, right?
You really want to blame Bush for some obscure separation policy written by some Colonel somewhere in the depths of the Pentagon, right?
You really want to pretend that Bush is in favor of this, or had any idea that this was happening?
I will bash Bush with the best of them, but you people are fucking nuts. Unhinged. And stupid.
Hey- I bet Bush is to blame for the Seahawks Superbowl loss! Impeach SHRUB!
KC
Remember people, there is no one to blame, ever. Things just happen, nobody is at fault. The most you can do is feel sorry for our brave leadership. Again, things just happen.
Mike in SLO
I guess I’m a lunatic. Can we at least blame it on his administration? I mean, as you say John, there has been time enough to sort this all out. Especially considering what we spend on the military already. Is it too much to ask that soldiers be equipped with body armour at no cost to them? It is too much to ask that the man that is so proud to be Commander in Chief have someone in his adminsitration make sure that his soldiers aren’t asked to pay out of pocket while injured fighting in his war? Are we to absolve this administration completely and just blame it on the Pentagon? You get so upset with us “lunatics” placing blame at the top of the power pyramid. After 4 years of horrible mismangement, why shouldn’t we blame the President?
zzyzx
As good of a reason as any to me ;)
Tractarian
I just have two (snarky) thoughts:
First, the principle of Personal Rresponsibility requires that people like Rebrook be held liable for destroyed or lost equipment. If we just let the $700 slide, then where is the incentive for soldiers not to get blown up?
Second, you mean to tell me that a U.S. soldier was actually equipped with body armor????? Hell, Rebrook and his family should thank Rumsfeld.
neil
It was just a few bad apples. Nothing to see here…
Edmund Dantes
Hmmm… the permalink from Americablog isn’t working, but they were on this trying to raise money for the guy. They raised 4400 bucks in two hours for him. So it’s nice to see it’s taken care at least on a personal level even though on the larger policy level it’s still fucked up no matter who you blame it on.
Kimmitt
I appreciate that this is something of a bureaucratic issue, but John — this is hardly the first Bush Administration decision which is a total reaming for our men and women on the ground. Once is an event; twice is a coincidence; three times is enemy action. Fifty times is policy.
Pb
John Cole,
No, just for getting us into this mess in the first place.
Steve
I don’t get it. Rumsfeld runs the Pentagon. On what planet is he not responsible for what happens in the Pentagon?
neil
I don’t think you can blame Bush for the supply or command snafus. I imagine the Pentagon is always, and has always, done stuff like that.
The main aspect of the situation that Bush shares the blame for is the soldier being there to get his arm blown off in the first place. In peacetime, the guy might have had to pay for supplies that were lost or damaged upon retiring, but it wouldn’t make the news because he wouldn’t be hurt.
This, I think, is why people have the impulse to blame Bush.
james richardson
“Now I know why this happens, and I know the reason for the policy is not to hose wounded vets who are discharging, but we have been at this game long enough that this sort of shit should be sorted out by now.”
I think the issue for some of us is, we don’t know why this happens, or the reason for the policy, and what game have we been at long enough that it should be sorted out by now? Hence the earlier “elaboration” post…?
Tractarian
John, you are right that Bush probably had no idea about this policy. You’re right that Bush would probably not approve of the policy if he had known about it.
Does that mean he is absolved of responsibility? Does it mean that anyone who places blame on Bush is a member of the “lunatic fringe”? I don’t think so.
First of all, ignorance of defense policy is not a valid excuse, especially for a president who believes in a “unitary executive.”
Second, when you stake your entire presidency on being a strong Commander-in-Chief-War-President, when you routinely make speeches in front of military audiences, when you repeatedly accuse your opponents of being “irresponsible” … then you are naturally held to a higher standard of responsibility.
LITBMueller
Yeah, c’mon, folks! Haven’t you figured it out, yet? The Buck Stops Anywhere But at the Top in this topsy-turvy Post-9/11 Trauma world!!!
– Enron? Ken Lay isn’t responsible! Nope, it was sloppy accounants…
– Abramoff? Well, Jack offered the money, but those Congresscritters didn’t have to take it, did they?
– Hitler? It was all that asshole Mengele’s idea!
– Tyco? Kozlowski’s WIFE ordered the damn $7,000 curtains!
– The Budget Deficit? It wasn’t caused by Congress members, it was caused by the staff!
– The Titanic? Capt. Smith was asleep, not driving the frickin’ ship!
Seriously, though: Call me syupid of you mustill, but, sure, Bush didn’t make the rule… But, guess what, he’s the fucking boss and its his responsibility to (a) make sure this kind of fucked up crap doesn’t happen while he’s around, and (b) fix it!
If we can’t demand at least that kind of responsibility from those who profess to lead us, then we are all in deep shit.
Faux News
Good point John. Likewise, I don’t blame Kenny Boy Lay for the downfall of Enron. How was he supposed to know every last detail?
RSA
I think that you go to war with the punitive reimbursement policies you have, not those you would like to have.
Pb
Here’s another story for you, John.
Marcus Wellby
I agree, if only because is it clear that Bush has no idea of anything that is happening anywhere.
Richard Bottoms
So after three years of this war the war “presdent” hasn’t called the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Donald Rumsfeld into his offce and tell them to appoint someone of Flag Rank whose sole duty is to fix stuff like this.
Give him a 1-800-number, a web site, and authority to cut through any red tape and fix whatever is broken. Immediately. Hell call Jeff Bezos, he’d probably have it sorted out right quick.
And I might point out it was a lunatic finge web site that started raising the money for this guy.
Bush cannot have it both ways. Basking in the glory of war president while doing a lousy job of running it.
S.W. Anderson
Well said.
John Cole
Aha. The reason for it is the military always has, and always will have, policies for tight control of inventory. There are methods and procedures for accounting for combat loss items, but apparently a separation policy was re-written, or updated, or something, and it failed to take into account items lost by injured soldiers.
At any rate, they are very strict with inventory- I bet body armor is considered what is called a ‘sensitive item,’ and not just a part of regular TA-50 that can be written off easier as a combat loss.
At any rate, this is all having to do with bureacracy within the Army, and nothing to do with Bush or even Rumsfeld. Blaming them is like blaming the CEO of IBM because a salesman forgot to give you a receipt at Radio Shack. I didn’t blame the first George Bush when I was charged 40 bucks because my LBE was ruined by an accident in the first gulf war.
Get a hold of yourself.
John Cole
I can not wait until we have a Democratic President so I can blame him when I get a rash on my ass from itchy toilet paper in a National Park museum. AFTER ALL- IT IS THE PRESIDENT’S FAULT! HE IS RESPONSIBLE!
LITBMueller
I’ve calmed myself down, John….
But is it OK if I laugh uncontrollably when Bush calls himself a War President?
neil
Look, here’s another way to put it.
The Pentagon has always screwed some small proportion of its soldiers. From a bureaucratic standpoint, this is virtually inevitable in an organization of that size. So we’ve always got some soldiers who are having to deal with some insulting, demeaning mistake.
Now, on the other hand, for the 20-odd years before the war in Iraq, the U.S. armed forces did not discharge very many wounded soldiers, and most of these were hurt in accidents. George Bush was responsible for enacting a major change in the policy that led to this outcome, and as a result we now have a lot more soldiers who are being discharged after being wounded by the enemy.
As you can imagine, this in turn leads to a lot more wounded veterans getting screwed over by bureaucracy. But it’s not because the bureaucracy is worse — it’s because the victims are more noteworthy. And this is what can be blamed on Bush.
Pb
John Cole,
Why wait? There’s no shortage of Republican idiots right here who are more than happy to blame Bill Clinton, John Kerry, Al Gore, Ted Kennedy, etc., for anything from Iraq to global warming. Jump on the bandwagon, man, hasn’t Karl Rove taught you anything yet? What does it matter if you control the government? Nothing is ever your fault, blame a Democrat today!
LITBMueller
BTW, there is a HUGE difference between FAULT and RESPONSIBILITY. One can have none of the former, but all of the latter.
Its part of being an adult.
Steve
Well, Radio Shack doesn’t report to the CEO of IBM, but I’d wager “some Colonel somewhere in the depths of the Pentagon” reports to Rumsfeld.
Of course he isn’t personally involved, nor does anyone expect him personally to review every little detail. But part of being the head of an organization is that you take responsibility. Unfortunately, this administration only has “accountability moments” once every four years.
Someone made a very good point about the unitary executive theory. Here we have the theory that the entire Executive power under the Constitution is vested in the President, period. But when it comes to accountability for exercising Executive power, hey, that we can share with the little guys!
I don’t think anyone is under the impression that a good President would personally be out there reviewing the details of every soldier’s reimbursement. If you want to pretend that is the argument being made, you’re just as dishonest as Jimmie at the Sundries Shack.
S.W. Anderson
I don’t hold Bush personally responsible for the raw deal Eddie Rebrook got. John’s right on that score.
What I do hold Rumsfeld, and Bush, who keeps Rumsfeld on in his job, for is the bad decisions on who should get body armor, and for the three years of undersupplying it.
To top that off, Bush and Rumsfeld get well-deserved blame for the near-secret program to reimburse troops and their families for body armor they bought from civilian sources, out of pocket at considerable expense.
Yes, there is such a program, but the Army has bent over backwards not making it known to troops who actually deserve reimbursement.
There was a news story on it a month or two ago.
Richard Bottoms
Having seen a two star general reduce a full bird colnel almost to tears in front of God and everybody. I guarantee you if a flag rank officer was give the power and responsibility (read: your next star depends on this) of doing nothing but responding to these complaints there would be a sharp reduction in heartburn.
The key thing for the families is no one responds quickly with a commitment to a.) see what the policy is, or b.) correct the mistake.
There is no reason for this. Having had to clear several duty stations and pay for lost items, this is not some obscure new policy no one in the Army has heard of.
Hell, lose you boots in Basic Training and you pay for them.
This would be a simple matter of changing suplply regs to flag any record of a soldier wounded in combat and not charge him for combat gear lost in the field.
Rumsfeld could order it tomorrow.
The Disenfranchised Voter
No, no, no. That’s impossible. George wouldn’t want Bettis to get the trophy…
“George Bush Doesn’t Care About Black People.”
Remember?! If Kayne “Jesus” West said it, it must be true.
Richard Bottoms
It’s not his fault. But his administration is responsible.
We see the difference. Why can’t you?
Doug
Maybe if we could get an Arab to talk to a U.S. citizen about this situation on an international phone call, it would be brought to Bush’s attention.
Richard Bottoms
Ouch.
Cherub
Nah, I think the refs got that one covered. lol
John Cole
No you don’t. You see an opportunity to trash Bush and Rumsfeld.
Orogeny
John,
Isn’t there a symbolic issue here. It seems to me that once something like this becomes public knowledge, it would be incumbant upon the man in charge, whether it is Rumsfeld or Bush, to say loudly and clearly “This is a mistake and we’re going to fix it. Give the man back his $700 and find a way, right now, to make sure that this doesn’t happen in the future!” The fact that this hasn’t happened points out the careless attitude that this administration has about the troops.
ET
The concept of “cost recovery” run amok. One of those business concepts that when imported into the government look freakin’ insane.
jg
Bush could get this fixed. Its not his fault it used to happen but he has to share some responsibility for things that continue to go wrong on his watch. It won’t get fixed because fixing it costs money and right now giving money back is the main driver of this administration.
Davebo
John,
I don’t blame Bush. I place this squarely on the shoulders of Don Rumsfeld.
But then I served in the military and seem to recall the old saying “You can delegate authority, but not responsibility.”
You tanker guys get to ignore that one or what?
Richard Bottoms
And what makes you think I can’t do both?
Whoever would be president when this happened would not be at fault, but would be responsible and he would have the authority to call the SecDef & CJC on the carpet for continued screwups.
Yes, I trash Bush and Rumsfeld every change I get. What’s your point?
He runs an incompetent, privacy trashing, environment smashing, fag bashing, education slashing, bumbling clown car administration.
And I haven’t read much recently where you disagree with a single thing I just pointed out.
Richard Bottoms
Right on.
jg
Any chance you’ll ever take sides against a republican administration when it comes to the military?
Why give a pass to those who are supposed to be fixing this? Defending the administration just helps them pass the buck to a low level staffer as the culprit.
Davebo
Well then, I guess the answer to my last question was No.
John, you sure it was the US Army you served in?
Ed
John Cole is apparently working on his advanced certification in DougJ Baiting Techniques©.
Pooh
PoTD nominee.
In seriousness, I with John to a degree on this – The specifics of this are hardly Bush’s fault (or for that matter, hardly Rumsfeld’s) HOWEVER, this is the kind of thing that happens when you aren’t a “details” guy. If either had paid attention to the bureaucratic FUBAR that caused much of the ‘post-war’ difficulties they could have knocked some heads and sorted it out. We see a similar dynamic WRT to Katrina. It’s a sin of omission rather than active malice, and is the kind of thing which is endemic when loyalty is worth more than competence.
As Richard said, if someone’s career road on this stuff being right, it would goddamn well be right. Instead, loyalty uber alles and heckuva job all around.
Blue Neponset
Bush and Rummy aren’t directly responsible for this but since they are in charge of the Pentagon they are responsible for fixing this problem. If nothing is done in the next few days to fix this then Dubya and Donnie are part of the problem and deserve all the blame they get.
Kimmitt
This is where I’m at.
In all honesty, I’m baffled by a system which charges soldiers for equipment destroyed during combat. Isn’t combat where equipment is, um, supposed to get destroyed?
Anyways, here’s hoping the Administration gives enough of a rat’s ass to change the policy now that the America-hating Left has covered the gap out of its own pocket for this particular case.
Paddy O'Shea
Oh now let us see, which is John Cole’s priority here:
1) Stopping the outrageous policies that degrade and impoverish those who have given the most.
-or-
2) Making sure that the blame doesn’t rest where the buck used to stop.
Not much of a contest, I guess.
Kimmitt
Ah, further research reveals that there is a process for reporting equipment damaged in combat but that it is somewhat cumbersome, which resulted in the situation above.
Pooh
I understand how the policy happens. I mean consider the alternative to inventorying. “My GPS? Oh that got blowed up. My Frag grenades? Used em all? My HMV? Flat tire in the dessert somewhere.” And suddenly, Pvt. von BlackMarket has a new swimming pool in his backyard.
But yeah, it would seem obvious that the body armor of someone who gets wounded is unlikely to be, erm, reusable for the intended purpose right?
Richard Bottoms
You know this isn’t World War II with a million wounded men.
It’s like 15,000. You could assign every single one of them their own liason if you wanted.
Create a new billet.
That person is on call 24 hours a day to respond to each and every wounded soldier from Iraq and Afghanistan. Get Jeff Bezos to design the web based response system with sms text messaging access as well.
Take about a month.
Tony Dismukes
Has anyone taken a look at the Kos diary linked by Pb? Does it sound at all plausible to the military types around here? I hadn’t read anything so far about soldiers getting screwed on their promised enlistment bonuses and tuition benefits, so I want to be sure I’m not missing something here.
Offhand, it seems like the diarist might be leaving out some important details, but I’d rather hear some more expert opinions.
Richard Bottoms
Yep.
Bob In Pacifica
Gee, just imagine if 500,000 people protested the way our leaders run this war.
John
Tony,
There were several reports of re-up bonuses being canned back in October/November 2005.
Here’s one
Here’s another
Speaking as a veteran, yes, unfortunately, this seems all too plausible. Especially for the reason given (“This program duplicated other programs, and was thus invalid.” Without, you know, covering the re-up bonus from these other programs.)
The rule of thumb used to be “Recruiters lie. If it ain’t in writing, it doesn’t exist.” Now, it’s just the first sentence.
Paul Wartenberg
GASP! I *knew* that line ref looked familiar! (raises fists in fury) SHHHHRRRRRRUUUBBBBB!
Can’t entirely blame Bush for the specific circumstances of this Catch-22, but I can blame the bureaucratic mindset of the Pentagon for not hammering out a more flexible policy regarding this (perhaps by recognizing that wounded soldiers can lose track of gear, or having the medical system establish a way of tracking it for their wounded). And to blame the bureaucracy, you have to blame the head of that bureaucracy in order to make certain something gets done to fix this. Hence, we blame Rumsfeld. (raises fists in fury) RRRUMMMMMMMMSSSSFEELLLLLLLDDD!
demimondian
Yes, Pooh, it’s wildly unlikely that the guy’s armor was worth anything. That’s not the point — the point is invetory control.
B-b-but the guy was lying there nine-tenths dead, and some remf is focusing on the armor?
Yup. And if the guy was dead, the invetory dude would still be focusing on the armor, and the NV equipment the soldier used to carry. Hell, he’d carefully make a record of the flag that went on the coffin, to make sure that the widow only got the one, and not a second.
John
John,
You know, I enjoy reading your site, since you’re a thoughtful conservative, but you are all wet here. Not in the first sentence, since any fool can see that’s the truth, but in the second.
Bush is the Commander-In-Chief. He, ultimately, is responsible for the military. If this — or any other policy — blows dead goats, he has the authority to change it. An authority granted to him by the Constitution, no less.
We’ve seen far too many examples of the soldiers getting shafted by the policies of this administration. We’ve seen far too many examples of soldiers getting blamed for the policies of this administration. And yet, no changes have been made.
How many of his advisors have been fired?
How many of these policies have been changed?
How much oversight of the policies have taken place?
I do not blame Bush for this. But I do hold him responsible. For he is, by statute, tradition, and the office he holds, the one responsible for the military.
In the end, someone must be held responsible for mistakes, if only to prevent them from happening anew.
Richard Bottoms
This was supposed to be the CEO president. To bad the company he emulates is called WorldCom.
Allstate handles more claims than this a day. Blue Cross knows the last time I was seen for anything.
You mean to tell me we can’t track and support 15,000 people’s health and welfare needs?
Ridiculous.
Pooh
Yeah, I get that. That was the point of my tomfoolery upthread.
BadTux
Err, George W. Bush is the Commander in Chief of the U.S. Army. The Constitution sez so. As President Harry S. Truman put it, “The buck stops here.”
It has now been over *SIX MONTHS* since it made the news that disabled and/or injured soldiers were being dunned for gear destroyed in battle. We should no longer be hearing stories like this. The Commander in Chief, or his subordinates, should have taken said un-named colonel and his seperation policy to the woodshed and ordered him to fix it. But that assumes that the Commander in Chief and/or his subordinates give a flyin’ ***t about the soldiers in the field. Which I can’t see.
Oh, I hear the blather, but I don’t see s**t getting done to improve the food, improve the conditions, improve the equipment, take care of soldiers who’ve come back injured and/or disabled. $86 billion is going to be spent next year on weapons our soldiers don’t need, while simple fixes such as more-durable tracks and bogies for our Bradleys (needed to make them more useful in desert conditions, right now the tracks and bogies wear too fast to use the Bradleys as much as they need to be used in combat, thus costing soldiers’ lives) and up-engining our tanks to use the EuroPowerPack (a diesel engine that has the same power and form factor as the long-out-of-production gas turbine currently used in the M1 series tanks, but has 20 times the lifespan between rebuilds, thus allowing heavy armor to be used much more in Iraq than currently possible, thus saving GI’s lives because indirect artillery support is no substitute for direct fire support) go unfunded. Remember, profits for defense contractors for new weapons are more important than simple, easily-implemented fixes to current weapons to make them more useful for our soldiers and save soldiers’ lives. After all, as Rumsfeld has said before, soldiers are “fungible” — easily-replacable commodities. (And if our Commander in Chief disagrees, then why hasn’t he sacked Rumsfeld?).
Bulls**t talks. A real man walks the walk. Our Commander in Chief talks, but he doesn’t do ***t when it comes to taking care of our soldiers.
– BT
Ancient Purple
It already happened. Last year.
While the military did eventually restore the funding, any soldier applying in February or March 2005 were shown the door. What a great way to treat veterans!
The article says they took the step to make sure it doesn’t happen again, but that doesn’t mean they actually did. Or perhaps there is a different program to which the dKos diarist is referring.
Hopefully, it will all work itself out, but if you are asking if it is plausible, I would say, yes, it is very plausible because it already happened before.
ppGaz
Beautiful. The “Lowered Expetations” defense.
Sign spotted on the little prick’s desk in the Oval Office:
“The Buck Stops Somewhere — I Wish I Knew Where.”
stickler
There is only one way to get fired in Bush’s Administration. And fucking up isn’t it.
Disloyalty is.
Got a problem with this? Did you notice it before November 2004? If you did notice it, but voted for the stupid git anyhow, well, that sure is tough.
A lot tougher for the servicemen and women who have to carry out his misbegotten policies, though.
Sine.Qua.Non
Aw, come ON John! That’s pretty ……. shit, nevermind.
Well, yeah, I do mind. That was uncalled for. When you say lunatic fringe in this forum, people on here think it’s anyone left of Rush Limbaugh for crying out loud.
I personally believe those events described are pure crap – that kid should have been given a phreaking medal, not a bill for his vest.
Richard Bottoms
John seems to suffer from Battered Wife Syndrome. Sure he bitch slapped me yesterday officer, but says he’ll keep me safe from the bad people and he’s so handsome in theat flightsuit.
Now where’s that vasiline??
Slide
Richard Bottoms:
Thats it exactly! you hit the nail on the head. John Cole is exactly like a battered wife. He keeps getting smacked over and over again but he/she can’t ever get to the point of severing ties with the Moron in Chief. He/she keeps going back to bush, making apologies for the little boy emperor because when he is not drunk and making a fool out of himself he is oh so very charming. Not like those wimpy democrats. That awww shucks Texas accent and all. The faux humility. The swagger. A man’s man. Clearing brush on his ranch and all. He is going to protect me from all the bad people out there. So what if he beats the shit out of me every Friday night and blows his paycheck on cheap women and booze he’s on my side after all. Yes. Cole is a battered wife. Bet he hides his black and blue marks from his co-workers.
Richard Bottoms
What gets me is how it is possible to be too critical of George W. Bush.
Two wars, neither going well despite the cheerleading.
National debt [ http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/ ] is $8,212,223,446,416.57 AND a budget defict of $551,000,000,000.00.
Company layoffs in the htousands while pension plans are dumped without ceremony for… you guessed it the taxpayer to pick up.
But, no retreat on tax breaks for people making over $100,000 per year. Meanwhile the IRS secretly keeps the refunds due poor avegarge joes.
Hostage to Saudi Arabian oil.
Vulnerable to container based ships with WMD and no inspections of airliner cargo FIVE years after 9/11.
And your every conversation and email is likely being scooped up for scrutiny by El Jefe, just because he can.
But don’t be a moonbat and be overly critical of the man. That would be just going over the top.
CaseyL
Let’s hear it for the “lunatic lefty fringe” over at Lunatic Lefty (and Gay) John Aravosis’ Americablog for raising over $5000 in two hours for the guy.
Oh, those horrible lunatic lefties! Why do they hate George Bush? Why do they hate America??
DougJ
John, the people at scrutator called. They want their post back.
james richardson
Thanks for the elaboration John.
To my brothers and sisters on the Left, let me just say this… when have you ever known G.W.Bush to get near anything military???? :-D
Sine.Qua.Non
John, I now officially apologise for my previous comment. I get your point. Yikes.
Zifnab
I’ve completely lost track of what left or right is anymore. If you don’t support the war you’re a terrorist. If you don’t oppose the President catagorically, you’re a Republican shill. There’s no middle ground anymore. What in the holy hell happened to policy based politics? It’s all clannism now. You’re left-wing, he’s right-wing, I’m a Democrat, they’re Republicans. It’s all meaningless outside of the cheerleading standpoint.
I miss the days when a bunch of Democrats and Republicans could all go down to an abortion clinic and open fire together without resorting to political bickering. I miss the days when Presidents could break the law, and it was a balance-of-power debate, not a your-party’s-president-did-it-first critique. Back when limited government made you a Republican, not the other way around. Perhaps I’m just growing up and these things weren’t obvious enough to me ten years ago. Or perhaps the name game in politics has gone completely out of fucking control.
Bruce Moomaw
Let’s put it this way, John: there has been a hell of a lot MORE sloppy neglect of our soldiers’ needs in general under Rummy and his boss than there was before. This particular incident may not be due to that — or it may. (And it may be due to it indirectly, if lower-level military managers are going nuts trying to compensate for the negligence of their superiors and are therefore making mistakes that they didn’t make before.)
BadTux
Well, Zif, when you have a bunch of politicians who are playing primate politics, defining everything in terms of “us” and “them” (where “us” are real people, and “them” are vile evil demons), this is what you get.
The goal of politics should be to figure out what the right way of moving our nation forward is. Instead, we play all these bull**** games, where everybody blathers about theoretical “left” vs “right” BS (anybody ever seen a “left” or a “right”? I haven’t!) while Rome burns. Heck, I can’t even compare our so-called leaders to Nero. While Nero fiddled while Rome burn, at least Nero had a reason to do so — urban renewal, bay-bee! (Most of the big “landmark” buildings of the Empire were built after all the little wooden buildings burned down in the fire). This is more like Honorious, Stilicho, and the Roman Senate squabbling while Alaric approached the gates of Rome — a situation which basically ended the Western Roman Empire in reality, if not in name (in name it lived on for another few decades with various barbarians playing “Emperor” until they tired of that game).
Our so-called leaders are playing the Game of Empire rather than trying to do what’s right for our nation, and the results are unlikely to be good in the long run — or even in the short run, for that matter.
– Badtux the History Penguin
Ancient Purple
It died about the same time believing in a “loyal opposition” took a powder.
SmilingPolitely
I’m not blaming Bush. He didn’t asked to be created. No, I’m blaming the bottle of Jack Daniels that led to that horrible night of debauchery which spawned the chimp, some 60 years ago…
And I’m blaming Pentagon Form 27B/6. The army has tried every munition in it’s arsenal, but that little piece of paper just won’t die. And with that form still breathing, poor soldiers will continue to have to pay for the glorious opportunity to be blown up in The Long War.
Pooh
Can this be a good idea?
Peter
Your defense of this dictator, Bush, is pathetic. What exactly would it take for you to say this guy needs to be removed from office?
I thought I’d come over here and check things out, since you weren’t supposed to be a semi-sane Rethug, but no – you’re the same old Bush apologist. That mess is tired. These ‘no body armour’ articles have been appearing for years. Is this incident only infuriating to you? I mean, how comfortably smug does one have to be behind the wheel of ASDF-style machine gun before one crosses back into reality-ville, where things matter? Presidential decisions, or lack thereof, matter – and people suffer, horribly – even white people, even Americans. And still, after years, after thousands of incidents like this – soldiers being abandoned after their efforts – you only find this latest incident ‘infuriating’?
What world, man? What went wrong? How did y’all grow up to be so devastatingly heartless about people?
Read Chomsky.
RonB
Sorry, can’t blame Bush or Rummy for this one, although shame on the CIF and his entire chain of command for not fighting that bullshit. I still have the armor I was issued from the first year of the war-file that under lousy control of hand receipts.
And John, you should give the “lunatic fringe” a break if they coughed up several thousand dollars to help the guy. Whether BDS inspired or not, you have to love that for where its heart is at.
Kimmitt
The K Street Project, combined with President George Walker Bush. Next question.
TBone
Absolutely. The most painful thing about changing duty stations is clearing the Central Issue Facility (CIF) and accounting for all the stuff you are issued. If you can’t account for something you signed for, then you have to pay. Soldiers always make excuses for losing gear, which in reality probably ended up in a pawn shop. If the guy at the Issue Facility accepted everyone’s reason for not having gear at face value, then the government would be out of alot of gear. SO therefore we must have the appropriate paperwork to justify a loss. The Gear Issue nug probably said something like this, “I see you don’t have an arm, but you also don’t have the appropriate memorandum justifying the loss of your gear. Please pay for the gear, and have a nice day.”
All that was necessary was for his Company Commander to write a memorandum stating that the armor was a “combat loss” then the LT wouldn’t have been pecuniarily liable. I have done this a couple of times in my career. Sometimes, as in this case, things are lost at no fault of the soldier. In those cases there is a remedy. Just because someone is combat wounded, or even disabled, doesn’t release them from accountability for property they are signed for. Emotion and compassion isn’t a sufficient reason to waiver policy. I apologize to all the folks who believe that feelings should play a part in this. The regulation is the regulation. There is a way he could have done this without paying; I suspect he just said “fuck it”, and payed for it to avoid the hassle of going thru the system.
Regulations concerning accountability of military property have absolutely nothing to do with the current sitting President or Sec Def. As RonB said, it was an issue for LT’s immediate chain of command to resolve. The President or SecDef could easily intervene to resolve this issue; but to blame them for this is comparable to blaming the CEO of a corporation for ordering the wrong kind of printer cartridges. Silly.
Richard 23
I was expecting your comment to include something about the two sides throwing feces at each other. ;-)
Three cheers for John Aravosis and his readers pitching in for what our taxes should be covering.
OCSteve
Come on John – you’ve been there and done that (not the shrapnel wounds I hope).
If you are issued a friggin ball point pen, MLS # 12345, Bic, One Each – you know that fact is recorded and they keep better track of that than whether your pay is right.
When you ETS you either turn it in – in good condition (less reasonable wear and tear but spotlessly clean), you have documentation of justified loss (of course this would qualify), or you pay for it.
The clerks you deal with don’t have any leeway; the quartermaster doesn’t have much more. We always had tons of crappy personal equipment floating around the unit because a guy would come to ETS, he’d have something he knew would never pass muster, so he’d trade it (plus some $$) with someone else for one in better condition. You simply don’t walk out the front gate without accounting for every last item.
I’m not justifying this and of course I feel sorry for the guy – but it’s the way it is and you know that. The screw up was in the unit he was deployed with, not the stateside unit he ETS’d from. “A battalion supply officer had failed to document the loss of the vest in Iraq”. And I certainly don’t blame that guy in Iraq. Paperwork screw ups in the Army are as certain as PT and “hurry up and wait”.
Why would it be even more so in this case? Because its body armor – the holy grail of the left and the media. Surely you can assume that memos and all kinds of directives have come down telling people to be extra vigilant in keeping track of every single damned vest. You think a clerk or 1st Lt. is going to just write that off?
“But a new policy required a “report of survey” from the field that documented the loss.” Bullshit – it has always required a report of survey for any item valued at over $xx – that is nothing new.
This is a ginned up story. If the Army routinely wrote off missing or damaged vests then the story would be: Look – Army loses track of hundreds of vests – still doesn’t care about troops having body armor.
RonB
Thanks for tightening up my shot group, T-Bone. I have no idea why they even let him go to CIF or S-4 without that paperwork.
Gray
John, you’re a little bit late to adress this issue. It was on Americablog yesterday and it took only two hours for Aravosis & Co. to raise 5000$ for the veteran:
http://americablog.blogspot.com/2006/02/we-raised-5000-for-body-armor-we-more.html
Besides, imho it’s a bit ridiculous to blame the DoD for f***ing up and at the same time defend the Bush Administration as though it bears no responsibility for the Pentagon. Apparently, Rumsfeld recognized the core of the problem in 2001:
“In a speech he gave on Sept. 10, 2001, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld called the arcane accounting systems and bureaucracy one of the biggest threats to national security.”
Wow! One of the biggest threats to national security! Of yourse, that was one day before the planes hit. And what did Rummy accomplish in 4+ years to get rid of the problem? Obviously nothing:
“A long-elusive “clean audit” sought by the Department of Defense — for years pegged for 2007 — is nowhere on the horizon. The agency’s books are such a mess that its accountants have stopped wasting money trying to audit them.”
“Its auditing budget was slashed by more than $100 million in the 2006 appropriations bill signed by Bush in early January.”
Now what may be the reason for the lack of progress?
“Dina Rasor of El Cerrito, Calif., the woman who led the way in exposing the infamous $400 hammer in the 1980s, said Congress has supplied very little oversight on the matter, adding that anyone who draws attention to misspent defense dollars is deemed “unpatriotic.” ”
Obviously, as the cuts at the auditing budget show, this administration has given up on ever solving the problem. Of course, one reason may be that this chaotic system makes it much easier to secretly hand out billions of dollars under no bid contracts to companies who support republican politicians.
All quotes from this great article “Pentagon errors hurt Iraq troops”:
http://www.svherald.com/articles/2006/02/06/local_news/news2.txt
Faux News
Bitter? Table for one! Bitter party? Table for one!
Must really suck to see your party circle the drain :-)
Barry
John,
I gotta pile, on, reinforcing the many good points made (apologies to those which I skip – there’ve been a lot).
1) Bush has shamelessly used his Commander in Chief credentials, wrapping himself in undeserved uniforms, and using troops as political props. In 99-00, we were barraged with GOP propaganda like ‘help is on the way’, ‘Responsibility Party’, and the Adults being back in charge. Bush hasn’t had 1% of the flack that he’s earned by this.
2) Bush has gone beyond almost all American presidents, claiming power after power after power. The proper (and only moral) way to judge him is appropriately increased scrutiny. Example – somebody who claims that his subordinates can secretly seize, imprison, torture and kill anybody they choose should be liable for abuses, not less.
3) We’ve had a little over 2,000 soldiers killed, probably 30,000 wounded, over 3 years. Which means that a relatively small office could track the medical, pay, personnel, benefits and supply information for each individual. These wouldn’t even have to be active-duty soldiers – get some retired S1/S4 NCO’s and warrant officers to do it. I’ve seen stories before about soldiers being lost in the ‘stovepiped’ information systems used by the Pentagon; in WWII this would be unavoidable; in this war it’s inexcusable.
4) To reinforce this – if Bush mentioned this to Rumsfield, and Rumsfield mentioned it to one of his subordinates, it’d be fixed. If there were laws in the path: (a) Bush has claimed power to violate the law at will, so what’s stopping him? (b) There’s also command authority to write things off and (c) Why hasn’t the GOP Congress fixed this (“hundreds of billions for tax cuts for the rich – not one cent for the soldier!”).
Veeshir
Although it will be fun watching the lunatic fringe trying to blame this on Bush.
You were right, this is a very fun thread.
Of course this is Bush’s policy, why, I bet he wrote it himself and told the Army they have to follow it or else. That’s why the military hates him.
I used to let the inmates here get me angry, now I just point and laugh. It’s much better for the soul.
Wrye
I recall stories of vets returning from WW2 and being grilled about what happened to the ammunition they were issued with, so this isn’t that bizarre–but the cost recovery part is strange.
People are angry, and Bush is easy to blame. But they’re allowed to be angry…
Veeshir
I saw last night that he had been reimbursed. I haven’t seen a story about it yet anywhere today.