The Air Force has apparently neutered their previously released religious guidelines to stop coercion by Evangelicals:
The Air Force, under pressure from evangelical Christian groups and members of Congress, softened its guidelines on religious expression yesterday to emphasize that superior officers may discuss their faith with subordinates and that chaplains will not be required to offer nonsectarian prayers.
“This does affirm every airman’s right, even the commanders’ right, to free exercise of religion, and that means sharing your faith,” said Maj. Gen. Charles C. Baldwin, the Air Force’s chief of chaplains.
The guidelines were first issued in late August after allegations that evangelical Christian commanders, coaches and cadets at the Air Force Academy had pressured cadets of other faiths. The original wording sought to tamp down religious fervor and to foster tolerance throughout the Air Force. It discouraged public prayers at routine events and warned superior officers that personal expressions of faith could be misunderstood as official statements.
But evangelical groups, such as the Colorado-based Focus on the Family, saw the guidelines as overly restrictive. They launched a nationwide petition drive, sounded alarms on Christian radio stations, and deluged the White House and Air Force Secretary Michael W. Wynne’s office with e-mails calling the guidelines an infringement of the Constitution’s guarantees of free speech and free exercise of religion.
I have discussed this at length a number of times (previous posts on this issue here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here), and I was happy with the new guidelines released in August. That turned out to be short-lived.
Again, on the surface, this sounds innocuous- who isn’t in favor of the free expression of religion by officials? But the devil, if you will, is in the impact. In the military, behavior by leaders is very important- ‘Lead By Example’ is repeated over and over and over again, almost as much as ‘Train like you fight.’ Leadership ‘openly expressing their religion’ becomes much more than that, and easily takes on the air of coercion. In Basic Training, I had a Drill Sergeant who repeatedly said the phrase “Holy Cow!” By the end of a few weeks, he had 32 recruits who also said “Holy Cow!”
So what is wrong with that? What is wrong with an Air Force in which the recruits follow deeply religious men? Well, nothing- if everyone in the Air Force was religious, and if everyone in the Air Force believed in the type of in your face evangelical Christianity spread by the Focus on the Family crowd. But they don’t, and not only that, the Air Force Academy trains officers. Those officers are going to one day leave the Christian enclave of the Air Force Academy and quickly learn that the troops they serve with are not going to share the same religious beliefs that the leadership at the Academy foisted on everyone else.
In short, expression of religious opinions by leadership is inappropriate, and will lead to nothing but trouble. It will quickly morph from a benign ‘expression of opinions’ and once again take on an air of coercion, intimidation, and forced prosyletization, in which events like the following happen:
We have been informed, for example, that, during a Basic Cadet Training session attended by a team of observers from the Yale Divinity School, one of the Academy chaplains Major Warren Chappy Watties led a Protestant worship service in which he encouraged the attending cadets to return to their tents and proselytize cadets who had not attended the service, with the declared penalty
for failure to accept this proselytization being to burn in the fires of hell.
It isn’t right, it isn’t the type of behavior officers in the military should be engaging in, it is not the type of behavior that should be inculcated in the next generation of officers. Furthermore, it isn’t religious bigotry to say that the Air Force is wrong to revise the guidelines they just released because they received some intense lobbying from a bunch of loudmouthed zealots who once again assumed their favorite role- poor, oppressed Christian. After all, the Air Force itself recognizes they have a problem:
The Air Force report cites some incidents but does not go into details: religious slurs and disparaging remarks between cadets and statements from faculty and staff with strong religious beliefs that some cadets found offensive.
There is a lack of awareness on the part of some faculty and staff, and perhaps some senior cadets, as to what constitutes appropriate expressions of faith,” said Lt. Gen. Roger Brady, the Air Force deputy chief of staff for personnel, in a press conference at the Pentagon.
Brady said he was unsure whether many of the incidents qualified as intolerance, but said “there’s certainly insensitivity” at the institution.
“Yes, I think there were cases where people said some things perhaps from a lectern that were overreaching, forgetting their position, that put cadets perhaps in an untenable position in terms of, ‘Gee, am I going to pass Physics 101 if I don’t agree with this guy?,’” he said.
Those are problems, and the Air Force should have stayed with the August guidelines.
And before we even go down this road, this is not, as some will undoubtedly pretend, a ‘free speech’ issue.
See also the Carpetbagger.
ppGaz
John, why do you advocate the intimidation of free speech, just in order to bash Bush?
KC
Good points John, all of ’em.
6PointsOut
Shalom. Absolutely correct, this is NOT a free speech issue. I take my own beliefs very seriously, but I do not want training in them, nor coercion toward them, made part of the environment in which my nation’s warriors are trained for battle.
Like the rest of us, the Christians (and you don’t need to denigrate them to make your point) have the right to speak their piece . . . but the Armed Forces serve all of us in a PROFESSIONAL capacity. Their bases and battlefields are simply not the place for religious *education* of any type at all.
Let our courageous and invaluable warriors of every stripe be free to train and serve to the best of their abilities; and may each bring to the struggle whatever faith they can.
Let proselytizing remain part only of the civilian realm, where it does not place at risk our ability to defend the very freedom that allows the Christians of this ilk to so persistently attempt the wider dissemination of their credo.
Oh – with regard to REAL free speech issues – BUY DANISH!
—Am Yisrael Chai—
EL
Two questions –
Anyone have a list of email addresses for the Secretary of the Air Force, etc? Time for those of us who don’t want commanders to use their authority to evangelicalize to write some letters. I realize it probably won’t do much good, though.
Anyone have a list of Danish products? No legos, thanks, but names of brands and products of food, etc. would be good.
David Ehrenstein
Just another reason to STAY THE HELL OUT OF THE MILITARY!!!!!!
jg
How are you supposed to build a christian army without being able to say the word Christ? These soldiers and marines and sailors and airman need to be well educated about who they fight for. Why are you against that, John?
neil
Why aren’t we hearing the _good news_ about all the recruits hearing the good news?
6PointsOut
Hey EL –
http://www.igourmet.com/shoppe/search.asp?country=Denmark
for aweseom foodstuffs of the Dansk sort. And this is just a start!
Shalom
6PO
The Disenfranchised Voter
Nice post, John. Kicking ass and taking names–I like it.
Bill
Just cite Luke 14:53 to them: (Jesus speaking) “Not one of you can call yourself my disciple unless you give up everything for me”.
As virtually all Air Force are Money Whoreshippers, they run like scared rabbits from the teachings of Jesus.
ChristieS
This is particularly worrisome to me. One of my nephews may be getting into the AFA and we are a Pagan family. I wonder just how easy it’s going to be for him now. Or whether this will even come up subtley in his interview series. And if he gets in, what’s going to happen the first time he refuses to go to chapel on religious grounds?
When my husband first enlisted in the service, you couldn’t even get Pagan put on dog tags. That changed during his tenure, but during the first Gulf War, he had to have a new set made that stated No Religious Preference. That way he could be sent to the Middle East. You see, being a member of a faith that is NOT one of the Big Three is an automatic death sentence there. Or at least it was. I don’t know about now.
Anyway, back to the new issue at hand. I’m worried about my incredibly intelligent, non-Judeo/Christian/Muslim nephew and his chances at the AFA. Those bastards scare the hell out of me.
Kevin (Javaman39)
Regarding jg’s comment “How are you supposed to build a christian army without being able to say the word Christ? These soldiers and marines and sailors and airman need to be well educated about who they fight for.”
I always thought that our armed services were fighting for ALL AMERICANS irregardles of race, religous beliefs, etc. And since when is it a “Christian Army”???? Does that mean Jews, Hundis, Muslims, aganostics etc., are exempted them from the service?
To be honest I am sick and tired of ANYONE trying to shove their beliefs down my throat. This country was founded on the principa of Freedom of religion which also inlcude Freedoms FROM religion.
If Christ were alive today and was witness to all of the hate and bigotry that is spewed in his name, I thing he would beg to be placed in the witness protetion program.
Our service men and woman deserve better!
neil
The Carpetbagger post after this one seems to be about the same basic thing.
Pooh
Clearly, it’s time for us to convert by the
swordcluster-bomb.It may not be a “free speech” issue, but this is a straightforward establishment clause violation to an almost ludicrous degrees. I’m sensing a class action headed by 3 cadets, a Jew, a Muslim and a Catholic in the near future.
Bob In Pacifica
Now if we can get the female cadets to wear the veil and always be in the company of their families maybe we can cut down on the rapes at the Academy.
Krackonis
Maybe we don’t want Christians to have and army. Thats retarded… Then you owuld literally be the Nazi’s instead of just “trying to live up to their standards”…
I see this as nothing but fascism. Berate critics, then critize nondeblievers then villify other dissent.
It becomes a a Christian War on other religions. This is SOOOOOOO not good.
Mr. Bill
Well, having spent 21 years in the Air Force, let me break it down for you.
John, you’re dead on with your write-up. You didn’t emphasize one thing, though. This is not a free speech issue primarily because there is no free speech in the military. This is explained in the link you gave at the end of your article, but let’s examine it further.
Now, from first-hand experience, I can attest that the Air Force is a little better about this than, say, the Army or the Marines. But the fact is, when someone who outranks you is talking, you don’t argue unless he allows you to do so. And when an evangelist really gets on a roll, they don’t want your input. What you think is entirely unimportant, if you don’t agree with them in every particular.
So let’s ignore ppGaz’ comment entirely. Additionally, there wasn’t any Bush-bashing in this writeup, unless you’re fixating on Bush being the second coming of Christ.
As for ChristieS, let me just say that your nephew should be fine. Until things settle down, though, it might be best to just keep his head down, nod a lot, and, if pressed for an answer, remember the words, “I’ll keep that in mind, sir,” “Thank you for your comments, sir,” and “No thank you, I’m not comfortable talking about my religious beliefs.”
It’s a bad idea to argue with your instructors and superiors in the Academy. Leave that until after you graduate.
As for having “pagan” on the dog-tags, it doesn’t really come up too much. I ended up in the Middle East for both Gulf Wars, and my dog-tags have read “Zen Agnostic” for most of my career. It translates to “I don’t know, and I don’t care,” if you think about it. (Admittedly, I used double-talk to get them the first time, but that’s what they’ve read ever since.)
kenB
One of my nephews may be getting into the AFA and we are a Pagan family. I wonder just how easy it’s going to be for him now.
You’re right to be worried, although it probably won’t be as bad now as it was a couple years ago — you can bet the zealots are going to be much more careful for a while. But there will certainly still be subtle pressure.
Rev. Kristen Leslie, who led the Yale Div group looking into this, goes to our church, and she gave a talk about her work on this a couple months ago. As I recall, she was rather pessimistic about any real change occurring, because the leadership of the academy mostly ranged from being indifferent about the problem to actively being a part of the problem. There would really need to be a house-cleaning for any meaningful change to happen.
anomaly
A Jew, a Buddhist and a Muslim walked into an Air Force recruiting office.
The Jew said to the recruiter “I want to join the Air Force but my religion says I cannot work on Saturdays.” The recruiter replied “If you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior you can have Saturdays off.” The Jew agreed.
The Buddhist said to the recruiter, “I want to join the Air Force but my religion says I can do no harm to any living thing.” The recruiter replied ” If you acept Jesus as your Savior you won’t have to harm any living thing.” The Buddhist agreed.
Then the Muslim said to the recruiter “I want to join the Air Force but my religion says I must wage a holy war against all infidels, especially Christians.” To that the recruiter replied, “Do you know how to fly an airplane?” “Yes,” the Muslim replied. “Good,” said the recruiter. “Here’s the keys to a 747 and a map to the Vatican.”
ChristieS
LOL! Perfect.
kenB
…of course, I’m not speaking from first-hand experience as is Mr. Bill. However, I got the sense from Rev. Leslie that this is a relatively recent development. One of the most outraged parents was a Jewish Air Force veteran and academy graduate — the pressure being put on his son was nothing like his own experience there.
ppGaz
.
Oh, no. My comment was entirely sarcastic and tongue in cheek, and it WILL NOT BE IGNORED.
True as you meant it, but the original reference was …
What the assholes seem to want is not freedom of speech, it is freedom to proselytize. Not the same thing.
I don’t disagree with your post, but I see the AF cadet in this context as the canary in the mineshaft.
neil
Mineshaft reference! 50 points.
jg
Sarcasm. It makes the world go ’round.
But I’m not being too sarastic since I know that almost everyone I know who went into the service came out more christian and republican than when they went in.
An army of one? Who’s One? It ain’t the individual soldier. Its the man upstairs.
Onward Christian soldier.
Pooh
You, as an individual, have freedom to proselytize. You, as a government employee do not, at least not to the same extent.
ppGaz
Yes, well, to my, not to any extent.
Fine if the gummint guy or the military guy says “Jesus is my savior.” Whatever. It’s right up there with “Pepsi is my cola” as far as I am concerned.
But when that same guy says, “Jesus is my savior, and I am telling you this in my capacity as {gummint or military office here}…” then, nuh uh. No way. Ixnay.
That’s the Debbil at work! Gwan, Debbil, and GIT!
ppGaz
*to me*
dr rw
I don’t like zealots of any stripe. They are all nauseating. I hope there is a lawsuit. I hope it is successful. I am also pulling a ‘Pat Robertson’ on Dobson…… Oh Lordette….. may that tiny artery burst…. Take him into you bosum oh great Lordette…..
Pope Ratzo
This is a very serious problem. The effort by evangelicals to infiltrate every level of government and the military is the most cynical and dangerous aspect of the Religious Right. What they’re looking for is nothing short of total compliance. From the top (Bush) on down, it’s nothing less than totalitarianism. There’s no brooking disagreement, no other options allowed. You can see it in the Cabinet, the Joint Chiefs, the State Department, Intelligence, even as we’ve recently learned, NASA.
How could this possibly be more Anti-American and Anti-Christian? It’s the exact opposite if every principle our founding fathers held sacred, and the twisted inverse of every teaching of Christ. We’re looking at nothing less than the end of America.
I wish I could still make a snarky comment or take this lightly. The threat of terrorist attacks pales compared to this threat. I pray that anyone who holds the country dear or believes in the teachings of Christ denounces this ugly perversion of the principles our forefathers fought so hard for.
stickler
Au contraire. Bush is the Commander-in-Chief. His desk is the place where, in days of yore, the buck stopped. Had he the inkling to do so, he could at the very least speak up about this issue. He could demand an investigation and a serious response to the obnoxious proselytizing by a bunch of Hell-bound, schismatic “Christians.”
But he’s done nothing. At all.
To point out that things are deeply wrong at the Air Force Academy is to point out one more failing by George W. Bush. Go ahead and ask a Bush lackey if this is OK. You already know the answer you’ll get.
ThomasMc.
Why can’t you lib-er-ahls understand? “Freedom of Religion” isn’t the freedom to choose your own religion, but the freedom of religion to force people to submit!
Jennifer
My questions is this: What are those guys doing at the Academy that have all this time to covert people??? Don’t the officers over there, ya know, train the cadets on occassion? My issue is that these officers seem to be spending a lot of time not DOING THEIR JOBS! If you want to spread the Good News, by all means become a missionary or a minister. Pharmacists… that goes double for you!
Kevin (Javaman39)
—-> jg…
I wasn’t being sarcastic by my question. If as according to you we have a “Christian Army” why are people of various faiths allowed to join then, or must they renounce their religion first?
If you take the time to really read and understand my question you would then see the absurdity of your remarks. Our service people come from all walks of life and religious persuassions. And they are willing to fight and die for those same beliefs and freedoms that all Americans are guaranteed by our constitution, which amoung others is the freedom to practice ones beliefs in peace without interferance and fear from others. Our constitution also states that our government and religion are to be seperate mainly to prevent a state sponsored religion as they had in England.
BTW – I am NOT downing you faith and and I applaud your convictions. I am just pointing out that we all don’t share the same beliefs.
Kevin
Pooh
Kevin, I believe jg was being sarcastic himself. The “Why are you against…” formulation is usually a signla of that on this blog…
Kevin (Javaman39)
—>POOH
If that is the case, mea culpa…
If not… Oh, well!!
Kevin
Krista
Yeah, I interpreted jg’s comment as snark pretty much right away.
Wow…that’s why I’d be lousy in the military. I would not be able to keep from heartily telling them all to go f**k themselves.
ppGaz
Refreshingly rational …. but this is all about payback for votes. This government is not going to do anything to tick off the Dobsonites who hold precious votes in their hands.
StupidityRules
Those crazy fundementalist muslims have obviously had great success with the idea of incorporating religion into their armies.
James
So then, am I to assume that an Atheist officer, or maybe (if they exist) a Satanist officer, or heck, even a Muslim officer is free to go about expressing openly:
“There is no God, so don’t waste your time praying when you should be training!”.
or
“In the name of Satan, Move!, and show yourselves as pleasant deliverers, that you may praise Him among the sons of men!”
or
“Bismallah rasullallah raheem!”
nyrev
Actually, the non-Christians are expected to shut up or convert. They don’t appreciate that.
Pooh
No worries bro, it flows thick and fast here. Some people enjoy pushing the envelope to see how far they can go before someone calls BS on them. I myself find that distasteful, and would never do such a thing. So far as you know.
Fred Freedledeedle
John,
Well said. Very well said.
FYI: Dr. Prescott has an excellent companion piece to yours posted.
Fred Freedledeedle
the friendly grizzly
I remember the boundless joys of being Jewish and having a superior (in the case a Chief (E7)) who made the religion of everyone in our division his business. You were in a world of hurt if you were Roman Catholic. Being Jewish made poor “evals” a virtual certainty. I can just imagine the damage a particularly effervescent evangelical could wreak on his subordinates who didn’t “pray right”.
Bynrdskynrd
I think this may be illegal…I don’t know the name of it but when you sign up for the services, you forego all rights…its almost equivalent to the rights you lose during due process during criminal cases…
Well, first amendment rights still affect everyone and since this is placing a denomination to those Chaplain ceremonies…isn’t that a violation of First Amendment rights? There is no ‘official’ church of the government–it was written in the Constitution that way…Intentionally.
To keep these modern day Rasputins from undermining society with religious hedgemony…to prevent another Iran happening in this country.
Those Chaplain ceremonies were non-denominational due to the fact that everyone religious–Hindu, Jewish, Catholic, Christian, Buddhist–can acknowlege the Godhead, whatever it may be…TOGETHER.
chingachook
Wow…that’s why I’d be lousy in the military. I would not be able to keep from heartily telling them all to go f**k themselves.
Yeah, well, that’s exactly why I never made it past E4 . . .
Krista
friendlygrizzly – that’s absolutely appalling!
Sojourner
Um, John, what did you expect when you voted twice for W?
ppGaz
Just when you though you had heard it all on the subject of the right wing agenda
All I can say is, Jesus H. Fucking Christ.
Zifnab
Um… seriously. Can we give that line a rest already? For whatever reasons compelled John to vote Republican, I have a hard time believing it was because he knowingly and wantonly sought the indocutrination of the Air Force with Christian hubbadehoo.
Any more than you voted Democrat because you thought the Oval Office required more semen stains.
Sojourner
The number of semen stains in the Oval Office is of NO interest to me. Nobody died. My rights weren’t impacted at all.
But to claim that the idiot in the WH and his party weren’t going to push for this shit doesn’t pass the straightface test.
Exactly who do you think got this yo yo elected? The religious right and corporations. And the fact that the legislative pattern that has been displayed over the past five years reflects exactly that is hardly a coincidence.
Al Maviva
Has anybody seen a copy of the old or the new guidance? The Religious Freedom Restoration Act imposes some duties on the Fed Gov that are sometimes difficult to reconcile with establishment clause principles. I’d like to compare and contrast.
delf
Just makes it easier for The Army of God to bomb the shit out of the rest of us
The Proper Response
And after each chaplain’s prayer that ends with, “we pray to our LORD JESUS CHRIST, Amen!”, the proper response of every dissenting Airman should be, “and in the Name of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Ramen!”
ppGaz
I swear, you are the king of arcana.
BK
Since the “christians” in the US, are so gung-ho
to spread the gospel, and JDAMs, on the heads of
the people in the middle-east, by all means, let
them send thier own blessed children, to do all
the killing. Why send the sinner mans sons and
daughters to fight their “crusade”? If they think
killing all the arabs is Gods will, and not murder
it seems they would set up recruiting stations in
the vestibule of their churchs. Since they want to
run the government, and dictate morality to the
rest of us, why not show us sinners the proper way
to please God. They can talk in tounges, while they
drop bombs, and kill entire families of civilians.
Seems only the Godly thing to do.
Roger
What is most amusing is the indignation coming from the mouths of christians. Someday if these morons can muster the energy and curiosity to study the origins of their religion and research the recorded history of the early Christians, they will finally realize that this jesus guy was nothing more than a mythological and allegorical figure. When superstition and fear trumped science and nature this provided fertile ground for this evil religion to take root. You would think an institution of higher learning would have figured it out by now.
Mike
For those who may not know it Focus on the Family and the Air Force Academy are across the freeway from each other in Colorado Springs.
map
coward
Welcome to Amerika Join of Die
Mike250
John,
Your analysis of the Air Force’s cowardly modification of policy, just when it was finally addressing a long-standing problem, was right on target. And let’s make something very clear; there is no such thing as free speech in the military – period. The system is set up that way for a variety of reasons, some solid, some political –most are pragmatically-based to ensure good order and discipline in the ranks.
I retired after 23 years in the Air Force, both enlisted and as an officer, including a four-year special duty tour on the Air Force Academy faculty (’89 – ’93), and later as a unit commander and public affairs officer.
I was not at all surprised that the Academy eventually faced a religious bigotry lawsuit. I witnessed many instances of religious bigotry and insensitivity during my tenure there. Later, as the ‘90s transpired and the power of the Religious Right grew in the state and federal governenment, more overt proselytizing was evident at the base level as well, to include chaplain-led prayer at weekly wing staff meetings and special favors on Armed Force Radio and Television Service.
The Air Force’s recent contention that commanders “rights” were being violated had me falling off my chair in disbelief. Is this the same Air Force that so painstakingly muzzles its commanders on any potentially controversial remarks relating to race and gender, under the guise of EEO and sexual harassment prevention? The same Air Force that requires any speech or material written for publication by an active duty bluesuiter to be blessed by a multi-tiered white-washing (i.e. censoring) process? (I used to be part of the “chop chain” in that process.)
Now, suddenly, they care about commanders’ Constitutional rights? Why now? This is a sad day for our Air Force that is letting religious and political pressure override what is best for the morale of all servicemen and women.
Doobs
I am a Mason and the most important criteria for membership is not the belief in Christ, but the belief in a Supreme Being. In the center of the room, a book is placed – most often, due to the upbringing of many members, it is a King James version of the Bible. However, whatever a person’s faith they may join and there Holy Book may at times be on the dais. Interestingly enough, it sounds like from my read of the comments that Wiccans could join.
My point is though that Christ is not mentioned in prayer. The Supreme Being is revered and invoked, but no faith is put before another – it should be so in the Armed Forces as well.
Personally, I consider myself a New Thought Christian (raised Lutheran)but find that most proselytizing faiths carry about them an air of Oppression (most noticeable)and intolerance that I am unable to stomach
StupidityRules
Doobs wrote:
While this would be better than putting christianity before other faiths it still would put a belief in a deity before atheism or agnosticism. And freedom of religion also gives you the freedom not to have a religion.
Airman
Keep your religion in Church and out fo the Military!!!!!
If you want to teach religion in the Military then teach them to PROTEST WAR like Jesus would do !!!!
USAFA2001
I’m a 2001 USAFA grad, and would like to address a couple of things here..
First, Christie, your nephew will be fine. The advice of keeping his head down is a good one, and he may get challenged by his classmates, but I don’t think you have to worry about him being ordered to go to the Protestant chapel for a worship service or anything. I’ll caveat that with: While the Academy as an institution is more tolerant of diversity than it has ever been, cadets may or may not be. I saw cadet with extremely sexist and religiously intolerent views while I was there, but it was always from a single cadet or two whose ideas on the particular subject were always in the very small miniority. The Air Force Academy as an institution recognizes that today’s officers must be much more educated and tolerant of other views and opinions, as very often we are deployed into locations where the local population does not share American ideals and freedoms.
Second, I know for a fact that officers at USAFA are being super-cautious about religious sensitivity and not pressing their own personal beliefs about religion on others, to the point of being paranoid. My current boss and my current commander (2 different officers) are heading to USAFA this summer as faculty and when one of them inquired TO HIS SPONSOR (the person assigned to help them transition and get setup smoothly) about where he could simply find information on churches in the area (often, the family support center has a listing), the sponsor wrote back that “due to recent events” he couldn’t discuss that kind of information with him officially. A restriction to that degree is a little rediculous in my opinion, but it does show that faculty at USAFA are particularly sensitive to the issue and are far more likely to err on the side of caution these days, where that may not have been the case previously.
Lastly, as members of the Armed Forces, it is true that we give up some of our Constitutional rights when we take the oath, but the Armed Services have a responsibility to abridge those rights only as much as needed to accomplish their mission. There is also the responsibility not to advocate OR restrict one religion or demonination over another, and that’s what I think this new order is addressing. The original order was 1) too specific in its wording and 2) overly restrictive on chaplain’s ability to perform services they customarily perform according to their demonination. The new order changed that. I’m sure it won’t be the last revision.
bryan johnson
god these people scare me! are they totally unhinged idiots or truly evil?
totally unamerican.
bryan johnson
EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL
bryan johnson
EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does EVIL is as EVIL does
Guinnbob
Throughout this entire thread, I am astonished no one mentioned Article VI of the US Constitution. It is absolutely fundamental to the point at hand.
This Daily Duck discussion covers that ground very well.
Marc
I agree that a superior officer should never discuss religion with underlings. They have no option to disagree. It is extremely difficult to prove that a person joins their superior’s religion of their own free will – the assumption must be that they were coerced due to the unbalanced power in the relationship – the superior has ALL of the power).
This was my objection to Bill Clinton’s sexcapades. How can a lowly intern disagree with the President? Even worse, what about the career bureaucrats who couldn’t afford to lose their job.
If Monica had been a private citizen (like Marilyn Monroe), I don’t care one bit. But because she was in his chain of command, she is off-limits. She again was in an unbalanced relationship and the assumption has to be consistent – coercion.
Guinnbob
NB — Article VI of the Constitution prohibits religious tests for offices of public trust, which includes the military.
Allowing superior officers to evangelize subordinates (or even for anyone to evangelize peers) absolutely begs the sub rosa establishing of just such religious tests.
Which means this issue has nothing to do with free speech.
I just can’t figure out why it has gone unmentioned.
Jeff H
NJDC’s statement and compilation of work on this important and disturbing story.
Timatollah
The address of the Secretary of the Air Force:
My letter here.
Darren7160
Because! My God people… it isn’t supposed to be about a Christian nation attacking Muslims. It is supposed to be about fighting radical Muslims and creating a SECULAR government in Iraq that PROTECTES ALL RELIGIONS and sects.
This is wrong on so many levels… “Christian Embassy comes along side Presidential appointees serving in the White House and federal agencies to help direct their focus on Jesus Christ.” Where is the Constitution in all of this? Where does the person’s loyality when there is a conflict?
What right-wing Republican Conservative would let his workers take time off during the day, with pay, to go to a Bible study? Why are the American people supporting them with a paycheck when they are not at their assigned duties? Will they provide the same level of support to a Muslim prayer group? Can’t you just see Prager going nuts after a Muslim is sworn in on Quran and then has daily prayers in his Congressional office?
It isn’t free speech issue and trying to make it one is bogus. People, all the time, are limited in what they can say as a condition of employment. You know that!
It is a separation of Church and State issue. PERIOD.