I do not know why I find this story so entertaining, but I do, so bear with me, as there is a lot of stuff regarding Dick Cheney’s hunting worth mentioning today. First and foremost, I appear to be the only person on the planet who did not get the vapors when I saw Dana Milbank in a road safety vest and orange hat last night on Countdown with Keith Olbermann. Michelle Malkin is aghast and has links to the video, the Instapundit wonders what he was thinking, Captain Ed says Milbank has ‘brain damage’ (I guess Milbank isn’t funny, but brain damage is), Andrew Sullivan thinks this is going to help the White House, and the PowerLine, ever thick as a brick, has the following to say:
This is just too much. The Washington Post’s Dana Milbank, one of the most notoriously partisan Democrats in the journalism business, dons blaze orange to dramatize–I guess–the vitally important hunting accident issue. He isn’t kidding, either. Unbelievable.
Umm, yeah. He actually IS kidding, unless you really do think that Dana is wearing the outfit below because he actually fears he might get shot by Cheney. In which case, you guys are as dumb as the lefties say you are. Having said all that, even my friends at Red State think it was over the top.
(Courtesy of Malkin Via Red State)
My reaction- it was funny, and I saw it live as I was waiting for the Jack Bauer Power Hour to start. The studio was laughing, Keith was laughing, and I laughed. Just because he is a journalist does not mean he can’t make jokes, kids. I distinctly remember a certain President of the United States hunting for WMD in his office- and I thought that was funny too (and in fairness, the wet blankets in the Kerry campaign and the DNC tried to pretend it wasn’t funny, either). In short, lighten up. We all know you are just trying to extract whatever political advantage you can find by playing the ‘liberal media’ card.
The next thing regarding the whole Cheney affair are the late night jokes- the WSJ has a rundown of the jokes (h/t Andrew Sullivan, and by far, the best are from the Daily Show:
Jon Stewart: “I’m joined now by our own vice-presidential firearms mishap analyst, Rob Corddry. Rob, obviously a very unfortunate situation. How is the vice president handling it?
Rob Corddry: “Jon, tonight the vice president is standing by his decision to shoot Harry Wittington. According to the best intelligence available, there were quail hidden in the brush. Everyone believed at the time there were quail in the brush.
“And while the quail turned out to be a 78-year-old man, even knowing that today, Mr. Cheney insists he still would have shot Mr. Whittington in the face. He believes the world is a better place for his spreading buckshot throughout the entire region of Mr. Whittington’s face.”
Jon Stewart: “But why, Rob? If he had known Mr. Whittington was not a bird, why would he still have shot him?”
Rob Corddry: “Jon, in a post-9-11 world, the American people expect their leaders to be decisive. To not have shot his friend in the face would have sent a message to the quail that America is weak.”
Heh. Indeed.
Finally, Tim wrote the following last night:
A less interesting question to me is why they waited to alert the press. Among the many things going through Cheney’s head I doubt that phoning the Washington Post was one of them, and I doubt even more that anybody in his retinue had the balls to bring it up.
I guess this is one of those rare times when Tim and I just disagree. I think the most INTERESTING questions are why did they not alert the press, and why did they not alert the President and his staff sooner. The mechanics of the accident and the number of pellets does not interest me in the slightest- the people that saw the accident are the only ones who know how it really happened, speculatuion is pointless, and they are going to keep their stories straight- these are seasoned politicos who know how to keep a story straight. So that really doesn’t interest me, because the only people who are ever really going to know what happened aren’t going to tell us anything other than what they want us to tell us.
But why didn’t they alert the press? Why didn’t they alert the White House sooner? Is there a rift between Bush and Cheney, or the Bush office and the scandal-plagued VP’s office? Is this why communication is so bolloxed during events like, say, Hurricane Katrina? Or why intelligence regarding the status of WMD in Iraq was so distorted? Is this symptomatic of dysfunctional communication throughout the entire White House?
Or was this political calculus? Let it blow up and drive everything off the news media’s plate, like the wiretapping issue, the scathing report from House Republicans regarding Katrina, the 4 dead kids in Afghanistan, etc.
Or was it just hubris and a reflexive desire for secrecy? They like to keep their cards close to their collective chests, and hate letting out any information about anything- even when it could be to their advantage. Is this just the WH and the VP’s staff doing business as usual?
Now those are questions I would like to have answered.
*** Update ***
Couple things I should probably add:
1.) Any claims that this was not ‘serious’ should be ignored. It may not be a life or death thing, but anytime someone is shot it is ‘serious.’
2.) Claims this is not Cheney’s ‘fault’ are silly. Who held the gun? Cheney. Who aimed the gun? Cheney. Who pulled the trigger? Cheney. There may have been some breack of hunting etiquette by both men, but my approach to these things is like when someone rear-ends someone- no matter what, if you hit someone in the ass end, it is invariably your fault- even when it isn’t. If I am wrong about this, let me know.
3.) Do I think this is worth all the attention it is getting? Of course not. This has no impact on any of our lives, nor will it. But if we are going to pay all this attention to the issue, let’s at least look at the more interesting questions that have been raised.
4.) Finally, those trying to gain some sort of advantage because Cheney did not have an ‘Upland Game License’ and was hunting ‘illegally’ should pipe down. What that tells me is not that Cheney is some sort of illegal hunter, but that we have so many damned laws that even when the Vice President’s office calls the authorities to make sure that Cheney has all the paperwork he needs, the authorities still aren’t able to give a straight answer. If Cheney was hunting illegally, you should probably recognize that throughout the course of the day, you probably did 5-10 illegal things you didn’t even know were illegal.
Stormy70
Dana Milbank is a boob, nothing new there. I really don’t see some “conspriracy” in not releasing this to the press. Especially such whiny, useless Washington types who have yet to ask a decent question not colored by their relentless biases. I think your questions are indicative of your move to the left side of the aisle. You seem to think the Administration owes the press a quick explanation. I don’t. This wussy press can stick it in their ear. Spoon fed babies.
Doug
Cheney has a fetish for secrecy. I think that’s why he didn’t alert the media. No more, no less.
I think the media ought to be spending their time on more important issues, but they won’t. So, mocking the Vice President for being a bad hunter seems at least as appropriate as wall-to-wall coverage of another missing white girl.
HH
Considering that the opposing side called for heads to roll at the same newspaper for turning off comments after a troll swarm…
If Brit Hume had shown up on-air in a wetsuit on the anniversary of Chappaquiddick, people might feel differently…
raymond
I’m pretty sure the explanation of this whole thing is simple. Cheney hadn’t fed on human blood for a while, and he was just hungry. All this speculation about alcohol is just a completely unfair accusation.
Ancient Purple
I know I do.
Since I don’t live in Washington DC, I expect the press to give me the info about our public servants.
They have no problems taking money from me for their salaries, so at a minimum I expect to know what they are up to (national security issues notwithstanding).
I know it is downright radical to expect public servants be accountable to the taxpayers, but try to be brave.
capelza
John Cole, I saw the Milbank thing and I laughed so hard it scared my pets.
The Stewart show was great…they kept repeating the phrase “shot in the face by the vice-president of the United States of America”.
I do think it is odd as well that Bush was kept out of the loop once again about something they had to know would get out. Paranoia as a habit I guess.
Faux News
Sounds suspiciously like Fox News. Or in your case “Vixen News”. Which should be your new name here on BJ.
Lines
OMG, Stormy is the new Dougj extraordinare! Damn Stormy, you’re on fire!
Now tell us how the quail have won in a post 2/11 world!
The Other Steve
The Keith Olbermann show is fricking hilarious. He’s going to end up replacing Jon Stewart here at the rate he’s going. Anybody who takes it as serious news has got to get over themselves.
Steve
What amuses me is that conservatives have been in deep denial with respect to every scandal throughout the Bush Administration. Pre-war intelligence was misused, big deal. A CIA operative was outed, who cares. Jonah Goldberg has practically trademarked the word “Yawn” at this point.
But now, when something happens that legitimately is a non-event, more humorous than anything else, conservatives STILL feel a desperate need to minimalize it! “So they waited a day to report it… they were just taking care of the victim!” “Things like this happen all the time, usually there’s not even a police report!” “It wasn’t even Cheney’s fault… the guy was 100% to blame for not announcing himself!”
A common cliche is that the Democrats always “overplay their hand.” Well, it’s starting to seem to me like conservatives consistently underplay their hand. No matter what bad news may come out today, you can always count on the Bushbots to argue vociferously that it is No Big Deal[tm]. And here they go again, tossing away the last vestige of their credibility by claiming people shouldn’t even be talking about the Vice-President of the United States shooting someone, that it’s all because of the liberal media. They’re like the boy who didn’t cry wolf.
Emma Zahn
Maybe Rove and Bush were laughing so hard themselves they couldn’t concentrate or keep a straight face long enough to talk to the WH press corps.
Speaking of which, the WH press corp are really irritated they got scooped on this by a local paper.
ppGaz
I’ve been watching him for almost a year, every day. The amazing thing about his show is that it does the hard news as well or better than any cable show, and still manages to be as funny as hell without breaking the integrity of the real news. He has a knack for switching contexts from serious to humorous in a way that never leaves the viewer in doubt as to which mode he is in at the moment.
It’s the best act in television today, and just about the only cable news slot that I trust not to bamboozle me.
The Other Steve
They have any credibility left?
I mean you look at Stormy’s responses, and she’s become a cliche of herself. No wonder DougJ finds it so easy to parody them.
Lines
You have to wonder if the Stormy’s of the world woke up to this news of the “vice-president shooting a lawyer in the face” and immediately cringed and tried to find a way to justify it, downplay it or ignore it completely.
But then I have to wonder if Stormy is really just the bestest troll evah, the person that comes here to just outdo everyone she can.
Whatever it is, its hilarious
ppGaz
Most likely, it’s more or less “yes” to everything you asked in that list.
More to the point, no reasonable and sentient citizen would suggest that a “no” answer is likely to be true for the questions you listed. Given that, one has to conclude that this administration is just fucked up. Not in a Jon Stewart funny sort of way, althoug it is funny. In a dangerous “these people are crazy” sort of way. These idiots, these boobs, are in charge of the most powerful nation on earth. If that doesn’t scare the living bejeezus out of every awake American, then nothing will.
Surely this will move thousands of people to vote Libertarian this year, don’t you think?
It’s time to make a statement.
mark
let’s see. the president lies us into a war that has cost us 2500 dead and over 16K wounded not to mention the tens of thousands of Iraqi dead and the hundreds of BILLIONS of our treasure and you thought it was funny when he joked about not finding WMD’s, the primary reason for this fiasco of a war, at a fricken fundraiser??? that is the most despicable thing I have heard you say. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Paul L.
So if you are driving down a dark street at night and someone runs out in the street and you hit him, it is your fault?
Who was sitting it the drivers seat? You. Who was driving the car? You. Who put his foot on the accelerator, You.
Here is some more fuel for the fire.
Remember that media uproar?
Brad R.
He actually IS kidding, unless you really do think that Dana is wearing the outfit below because he actually fears he might get shot by Cheney. In which case, you guys are as dumb as the lefties say you are.
Was there ever any doubt?
Mr Furious
Nice post, John.
I agree with everything except the part about you finding humor in Bush’s WMD skit. First, objectively, it wasn’t actuallly funny, IMO, and secondly, it was in extremely poor taste and inappropriate. I’m not going to say you should be ashamed, but you should be embarrassed to admit the fact that you thought it was funny and be aware that it doesn’t reflect well on you.
ppGaz
Mark, you are exactly and precisely right.
The Bush-WMD “comedy” routine will surely go down in history as the most grotesque and unexplainable insult to the people by the government of this country that has ever been seen, period. Bar none.
There are more than a few people around here who honestly think that the Bush “joke” was funny, and you will never convince them otherwise. Because, they just don’t get it. They don’t care. Their concern for some snarky, smarmy view of what the world is, what America is, and what they are, is well above the moral and ethical considerations implied in the “joke” and the circumstances surrounding the “joke.”
My take on it is this: I give no quarter to those people. None whatever. I don’t respect the view that the “joke” was funny, and I don’t respect the people who hold that view. I don’t respect people who have the gall to display that view to others.
Rob
When the daily show showed Nintendo’s Duck Hunt, I couldn’t stop laughing. Just thinking of that snickering dog.
Mr Furious
Paul L, you lose. John already gave the only appropriate car analogy. I know it’s a challenge to come up with a defense for this, but try again.
JWeidner
I’m sorry, but I’m confused as to how delaying public notification of a person’s suicide note equates to Cheney shooting someone in the face…explain please.
Pb
I haven’t seen this mentioned here yet, so… the mysterious third member of Cheney’s hunting party was Pamela Willeford, another Texan who just happens to also be the US Ambassador to Switzerland. Another crony appointment, perhaps?
Doug
Well, in this case, it would be a pedestrian you knew was around somewhere who ran behind your car and you threw it into reverse without really looking.
Cheney was careless, and he shot someone. Does this make him a bad person? No — plenty of other things do, but not this. This just makes him a bad hunter.
gswift
Whittington is 78 years old. Doubtless he was sprinting circles around Cheney and just happened to run into the line of fire.
This was in broad daylight, and by all accounts Whittington was BEHIND Cheney. Cheney ignored basic safety rules and shot a dude in the face. It’s as simple as that.
CDB
http://sptimes.com/2006/02/13/State/Wearing_orange__gover.shtml
Mr Furious
I hear you ppGaz. My comment to John above is as diplomatic as I can be about that topic. I like John (in the abstract never-met-him-except-in-a-blog kinda way), and I suppose that means I “gave him quarter,” but I know what you mean.
Only toadies laughing nervously before their masters should have been laughing at that joke. That was a long time ago, and I like to think John has fought his way clear of the haze that once afflicted him—I would have suspected that John would NOT find that funny if Bush pulled that shit now. Maybe I am wrong, it is a bit disturbing (and disappointing) that he would admit to once finding it funny. Brutally honest? I guess John gets credit for that much.
Blue Neponset
Paul L,
If you were thinking of inviting me to go quail hunting with you, please don’t bother. I wouldn’t want to be near an armed person who thinks the shooter is mostly blameless in any kind of accidental shooting.
ppGaz
We’re on the same page. I like John a lot, I respect the tremendous work he puts into this blog to provide us a space for this stuff we do, but on this particular subject, he is dead, dead wrong. And it’s troubling, because we are talking about something that goes really deep. John would jump into the face of anyone who came in here and dissed the troops … yet here’s probably the biggest, worst diss of the troops that has ever been done by a government official in this country … or any country for that matter … and he doesn’t get it.
It’s a head shaker. It just doesn’t compute no matter how you figure it.
Lines
John is exposing himself when he says “the searching for WMD skit was funny” so that the cool kids at Footie-Pajamas Media will continue to think he’s on their side.
erez
One can hope. But, I thought the same thing 2 years ago. It just boggles my mind how this administration can still garner approval ratings in the double digits (let alone 40%).
BarneyG2000
This has been over-blown, but only because this administartion always comes off as hidding something. As far as the stamp, Cheney was hunting on a licensed hunting ranch. Mrs. Armstrong must have known what was needed to hunt legally. Either she was not doing here job or both agreed to disregard the law, and considering that Cheney has a history of disregarding the law (lying, multi- DUIs leaks..) my guess wast that Cheney said the hell with getting the stamp.
chopper
i never found bush’s ‘WMD hunt’ funny, but only because i couldn’t get the images of half a trillion wasted dollars and 30,000 dead people outta my head.
kl
Wouldn’t it be quicker just to skim Media Matters? That’s what Olbermann does.
Pb
This just gets more and more pathetic. Pamela Willeford, Texan and Bush appointee, is married to Dr. George Willeford, Texan and Bush appointee! That’s right folks, he’s the gastroenterologist currently serving on the National Park System Advisory Board! He’s also–get this–a member of the Private Lands Advisory Board of Texas Parks and Wildlife.
And remember Katherine Armstrong, the Bush pioneer who owns the ranch?
Satire is dead.
Steve
I have to confess, I am a confirmed anti-war Bush-hater, and I still think the WMD joke was kinda funny. Of course, maybe I’m just saying that because I hope for a Pajamas Media gig someday.
Mind you, the fact that right-wingers still think we are going to find those WMDs, based on the latest “breaking story” from Newsmax or CNSNews, is a far funnier joke.
ppGaz
Well, I live in a trailer. I need to be entertained.
SeesThroughIt
Ditto–that was freaking hilarious. “Here’s a re-enactment….” That plus the oft-used strapline “Cheney’s got a gun” are comedy gold.
Steve: We already did find WMDs in Iraq. Really. I learned it on blogsforbush.com. It’s taken as unassailable truth over there.
ppGaz
It’s a wedge thing, but I can make it out to be almost funny if I think of it in terms of it being funny, as in funny graveyard humor, that we have a president who is so callous and stupid and sociopathic that HE thinks it’s funny. In other words, the joke folds over on itself, because he is such a despicalb excuse for a human being.
But the idea that we start a war over something that turns out to be not there, and while the war is still going on and people are dying, we are joking about it …. is so far beyond anything I can get my mind around, I can’t even process it.
It’s like the guy who stomped the cat. You know, there are people out there who think it would be funny to stomp a cat. But my visceral reaction to the act if I were there would be to kill the sonofabitch with my bare hands to protect the cat.
Is the cat stomper right, or am I right? Don’t know, I only know what my gut tells me.
That WMD joke is the kind of thing a cat-stomper would laugh at.
Kimmitt
Item!
Digital Amish
And just to close the circle, Katherine is the daughter of Anne Armstrong who sat on the Halliburton board when they hired Cheney. Just saying.
Paddy O'Shea
The Bush Administration continues to devolve into a pathetic national joke, and the polling numbers are reflecting it. The latest Gallup Poll (released yesterday) shows Jittery George sliding back into the 30s.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/13/poll.iran/index.html
jaime
I don’t get it. What’s the right wing’s message? Is it a silly little hunting accident? In that case, why are the wingnuts so angry at a few jokes? Or is this serious stuff? In which case, why aren’t they more concerned that the vice president of the United States shot a 78 year old man in the face?
Paddy O'Shea
The fact that the Uptight Right is incensed at all the laughter only makes even funnier.
Kind of like all the Islamists getting their burkas in a bundle over the cartoons lampooning the Prophet.
guyermo
Now if it were Ann coulter or Michelle Malkin who did that instead Dana, I’m sure Powerline would find it the epitomy of wit.
John Cole
Re: The WMD skit
I am addressing all of you rather than doing it one at a time. The skit was funny because it was self-deprecating and because of where it was presented. Just because there is an underlying ugliness to something, or just because something is disgusting and vulgar doesn’t mean it can’t also be funny. Go watch the Aristocrats, for goodness sakes.
I expect this sort of earnest humorlessness from feminists (Q: ‘How many feminists does it take to screw in a light bulb?’ A: ‘That’s not funny!’), but the fact that I thought it was amusing does not make me a bad person, does not reflect poorly on me, and just means we have different senses of humor.
rilkefan
John, it has been reported that Bush blames Cheney for his woeful poll #s and has reduced the OVP from being the actual head of the admin to being a bystander.
Sojourner
Stormy is outraged OUTRAGED that the American press and the American people feel entitled to an explanation of why the VP felt the need to shoot someone in the face.
But then again she never felt the need for a coherent explanation as to why the US invaded Iraq. So I guess it makes sense. Welcome to Planet Stormy.
chopper
i’m sure malkin is pissed about that, being as how she’s the epitome of consistency. right?
ppGaz
Nobody said it did. In fact we said the opposite.
Apparently you are able to separate context from content. If a comedian makes a tasteless joke that actually offends people, well, hell, he’s a comedian.
But a president made the joke, not a comedian. That puts him and his “joke” in a different category. That tells me that he doesn’t give a rat’s ass about the ugliness of the situation or who might be offended by it. That makes him a shithead of the highest order.
LBNL, get off it, man. This topic is not about you, it’s about Bush, and the joke. The fact that you can’t separate yourself from it doesn’t advance your defense of your opinion about it, at all.
Doug
I think the sorts of Republicans for whom the Bush administration is a sort of cult leadership are really pissed off that people are laughing at their heroes. Bush & Cheney are supposed to be on a pedestal, their actions regarded solemnly as they seek to protect us in this post-9/11 world.
I recall a lot of talk after 9/11 that “irony was dead.” Irony and mockery of authority figures are anathema to those who want to submit to authority. And I think there are a non-trivial number of Americans who are comforted by the idea of Bush & Cheney as authority figures who will make them safe. The idea of mocking such an authority figure, for anything, is sure to provoke outrage.
Just a theory.
EL
Senses of humor are odd and unpredictable.
I did not find the WMD skit funny, but I couldn’t get the context out of my mind, and someone who can might indeed see it as funny. I did find Milbank’s vest hilarious. One distinction for the person above who compared it to a newsman wearing a wetsuit on the anniversary of Chappaquidic is that same thing – context. Mr. Whittington is expected to make a good recovery. Mary Jo Kopechne is dead. At the time of the WMD skit, a few hundred American service personnel, and (I’d guess) thousands of Iraqis were dead.
All that said, humor can be the defuser and outlet for some of the worst situations. I wouldn’t tell people who hadn’t been there what I sometimes found funny as an intern. So I wouldn’t take John’s sense of humor in this instance as a deep moral flaw.
ppGaz
Maybe it’s not asking too much that we have a president who has a little more class when talking about a war he started than you’d find in a garden variety dirty joke?
Well, around here, I guess it is asking too much.
ppGaz
I’m not aware that anyone has suggested that John has a deep moral flaw.
Stormy70
LOL. You always crack me up. I am not the BDS sufferer here.
If Cheney was shooting to kill, he’d be dead. Haven’t you seen the Dick Cheney facts going around.
The press still looks like overwrought, whiney babies. Nothing you can change about that particular fact. Hunting accidents are very common here, and I think I will reserve my powder for a real scandal. Not another trumped up media scandal, a la Plame.
DougJ
But she’d look hot in it. Am I right, Darrell?
Richard Bottoms
Yes, the WMD skit was funny. But this an administration that you cannot give one inch to because every single event is used to advanced the politics of their side… well look at the Cheney situation.
He freaking shot a guy! It’s news. Except that it’s not and only a liberal press would think so.
Richard Bottoms
Cheney’s got a gun.
Heh.
jg
You’re a dick.
One of my friends kids was in an accident this weekend, killed his friend. He’s most likely going to do time. While technically jokes about this sort of incident are funny, in a deprecating way and if presented well but I’d be a royal asshole for telling one because its COMPLETELY innappropriate to joke about it. You’re an ass for even trying to say its funny then giving us a lesson on comedy. You should be punched in the eye by at least one member of each family who lost someone in the war the Asshole in Cheif likes to joke about.
You’ve really blazed new ground John. I gave you a pass when you said it was funny, I think you’re a jerk for saying that but whatever. But to call out others who rightfully thought it was in poor taste and give them a lesson on comedy?
Sock Puppet
Apparently there is a tape of dubious origin floating about Washington DC right now where the President purportedly refers to Jeff Gannon’s big eight incher as a “weapon of ass destruction.”
Rumor has it the more thin-skinned personages on the right are quite upset and “refusing to sit down for it.”
dirk
You miss the point. Bush is the only person on the planet unqualified successfully to make a joke on that subject, for an obvious reason. Goodness knows he has plenty of other avenues for self-deprecation; just not the bloody death of tens of thousands by his order.
tzs
I can’t believe no one hasn’t posted this yet:
The Hunting Song
by Tom Lehrer
I always will remember,
‘Twas a year ago November,
I went out to hunt some deer
On a morning bright and clear.
I went and shot the maximum the game laws would allow:
Two game wardens, seven hunters, and a cow.
I was in no mood to trifle,
I took down my trusty rifle
And went out to stalk my prey.
What a haul I made that day!
I tied them to my fender, and I drove them home somehow:
Two game wardens, seven hunters, and a cow.
The law was very firm, it
Took away my permit,
The worst punishment I ever endured.
It turned out there was a reason,
Cows were out of season,
And one of the hunters wasn’t insured.
People ask me how I do it,
And I say “There’s nothin’ to it,
You just stand there lookin’ cute,
And when something moves, you shoot!”
And there’s ten stuffed heads in my trophy room right now:
Two game wardens, seven hunters, and a pure-bred Guernsey cow.
ppGaz
Uh huh. Try to imagine that you’re a dad who just got a visit from the Marine Corps telling you that your son is dead over there. And next day, you see that “skit” on television.
Then, imagine that you are just the neighbor of the dad. Do you think it’s funny?
I work with people who have lost a total of 3 kids in that stupid war. Do any of you want to go around the office here and tell them that you think that skit was funny?
I can set it up for you.
The Other Steve
WMD Joke
I think the more common response to this was not outrage, or even humor but…. What the fuck? That is, my draw dropped on that one and I was just in a dumb stupor.
I think you’re right. The Bush Cult believes these men are the greatest leaders ever. Anything that makes them look foolish or stupid or incompetent bothers them. They’re very sensitive to this, so if you make fun of it, they lash out at you.
On the positive side… the Bushies have turned out to be so bad, that nobody even bothers to make jokes about Clinton any more. Instead everybody misses him.
Dave Ruddell
Because HILLARY KILLED HIM!!! I mean, geez, aren’t you paying attention?
SeesThroughIt
Shooting is just one of the 10 ways Dick Cheney can kill you
rilkefan
Lawrence Berkeley National Lab, get off it?
Otto Man
I thought the Daily Show coverage was hilarious, but the best segment was Ed Helms repeating over and over again some variation of “Dick Cheney … shot a man … in the face” in the authoratative breaking-news voice. Priceless.
StupidityRules
Stormy uttered:
Well between his five deferments and how they usually prep his prey, I’m not so sure. But if they had done the usual and tied Mr Whittington first, then I guess the VP would have had a shot at killing him.
I would give him a higher chance accidentially killing him, i.e fucking up, since he has had a lot of practice doing just that.
DougJ
You know what would have been funny: if Bush had been wearing an orange hunter’s vest while he looked for the WMD behind the curtains.
guyermo
and now the victim suffered a minor heart-attack because of shot that traveled into or near his heart.
srv
Obviously, there is more going on with this guy then they’ve been saying.
Mary
I heard some of the shot did travel to his heart. Gee, he got “peppered” good, didn’t he?
I can’t wait for the apologists to spin this one.
Ancient Purple
Ugh.
CNN.com is reporting that the man Cheney shot just suffered a heart attack, noting that birdshot had lodged in his heart.
This could get ugly.
Ancient Purple
Ooops. Didn’t mean to scoop you, guyermo. Hat tip to you for citing it first.
Richard Bottoms
H’ed probaly not be amused. So what’s you point? It’s possible for it to both be funny and for Bush to be an asshole. We try to get conservative to understand having a duality of thought on issues all the time.
This one’s no different.
Here try this:
What were the mayor of Hiroshima’s last words?
What the fuck was that?
How do you know the girl who died at the beginning of Jaws had dandruff?
They found her head and shoulders on the beach.
The proper response to Bush and the WMD joke is. Heh. That is pretty funny sir. Now, where ARE those WMD’s that the soldiers are dying for.
**chirp chirp**
Richard Bottoms
Frack me!
Doug
Great, now I have old Bon Jovi going through my head:
“Shot to the heart, and you’re to blame. You give (guns/Republicans/vice presidents/hunting/wingless quail-tards/???) a bad name.”
neil
What were the mayor of Hiroshima’s last words?
What the fuck was that?
This joke would not be funny if told by Truman.
Rob
Man shot by Cheney has minor heart attack
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11340558/from/RS.1/
The Other Steve
Whittington has a heart attack… I guess not surprising, the guy is 78 years old.
It’s quite clear now that this shooting was a serious thing as John noted. The Republicanuts trying to spin this as no big thing, that it was just a bit of bird shot like getting shot with a BB gun, are looking pretty pathetic.
It’s one thing for the comedians to make jokes about it… they always make jokes about bad things that happen. But for people to stand up there and claim this is no big deal and the MSM is overplaying it. What kind of drugs are you taking?
EL
This raises lots of questions – that’s a fair amount of penetration, unless it was in a vein and traveled to the heart.
Richard 23
FWIW, here’s a link to the CNN story: Hunter shot by Cheney has ‘minor heart attack’.
The Other Steve
Well, to be fair…
Truman’s popularity went into the toilet after he sent a raging letter to a newspaper which had printed a critical review of his daughter’s singing performance. This was during the Korean war.
The letter was printed nationwide, and was followed up by letters of parents of the fallen soldiers saying things like “Well at least your daughter is still alive to hear her sing.”
To be even more fair. Truman had the good sense to not run for reelection.
mark
i don’t even know how to respond to this statement. He wasn’t making a joke about a light bulb for god’s sake, he was making a joke about the primary reason that he, and his fluffers in the press corps, led this country into an unprovoked war the impacts of which be felt for generations. That’s a real war, where people get killed and others get their damn arms and legs blown off and then have to come home and try to put their life back together.
WTF john? I guess you’ve been playing too many video games
ppGaz
I’ve made my point quite adequately, and it clearly is lost on some people.
That doesn’t negate the point. It’s not a point only if everyone gets it. It’s a point whether you get it or not.
Richard Bottoms
There’s a difference between funny and good taste. Very funny, just not in good taste.
Using the literalist interpretation it should never be funny at all because 100,000 people died at Hiroshima.
Oooh, buzzkill eh?
It’s called black humour.
And we on the liberal side need to admit that we get played sometime beause we can so humourless and a little obtuse.
Like the city official in LA who wanted to ban the use of the term “slave” hard drive beause.. well they were stupid.
Knowing when something would be taken as funny by the average person, and not a political ideolouge keeps us from looking stupid and defending dumb shit.
Pooh
I pretty much agree with this, though I think the reasons I found the skit funny are not the intended reasons (Kinda like Dave Chappelle quiting his show in part because people were laughing at the wrong parts of his racial material). If Will Farrell had done the skit, it becomes transcendant, I feel.
Al Maviva
Pb says: the mysterious third member of Cheney’s hunting party was Pamela Willeford, the U.S. Ambassador to Switzerland
OMG! Cheney hangs out with other government officials… yeah, that’s pretty sinister stuff here… that “approved by advice & consent of the senate” thing is basically the Mark of Cain these days…And while we’re on sinister conspiracies out in the open:
Jaime says: I don’t get it. What’s the right wing’s message
You could almost conclude from the lack of message here that just maybe we conservatives sometimes respond to events in a way consistent with our beliefs rather than just tactical advantage seeking – and that maybe there isn’t a “conservative” position on hunting accidents. Or you could just presume that normally Karl Rove has his hand up our collective conservative a$$ and makes our mouths move in unison, like a huge muppet. Ergo the failure of the right to produce a coherent Cheney talking point indicates that Rove must have secretly been wounded too and it’s a really big coverup. Otherwise Rove would be making our conservative mouths move up and down and telling us what to say.
Back in the real world, just because there is a partisan divide on a lot of issues, doesn’t mean every issue is political. If Cheney gets in a hunting accident, does that mean that conservatives suddenly have to be in favor of hunting accidents? Or if some unnamed Democrat goes shagging the interns, that the liberal position is that abusing your position of power to gain sex favors is liberal doctrine? It’s possible that there is such a thing as a liberal who doesn’t always support the Democrats, or a conservative who doesn’t always support what Republicans do. Trying to apply an ideological purity test only tends to drive people from your camp over to the other side, or out into the wilderness.
Richard Bottoms
In this case, I understand your point perfectly.
I just don’t care.
Richard 23
Cheney’s two DWIs are from when he was in his early twenties. Are they felonies?
What if the victim, God forbid, were to die from complications resulting from being peppered with birdshot? Would this be a felony?
2 felonies + 1 felony = 3 strikes and you’re out? Hmmm.
Just a mental exercise in irony.
Mary
Ouch!
I thought the number one rule of humour was timing. Well, given that the number one rule of hunting was already broken, this shouldn’t be a total surprise.
Poor Whittington. I hope he recovers fully from this.
Richard Bottoms
How about this: The 78 year old man had a heart attack and he might die.
**chirp chirp**
yet another jeff
Richard, that’s not a good punchline. Something like “Peppered Face” is better.
Richard Bottoms
Now that’s funny. And pretty unintentional I’m sure.
Humor, it is a difficult concept.
— Savik, STTWOK
You lied!?
I exaggerated.
— Savik & Spock, STTWOK
ppGaz
That’s obvious, man. Really, goes without saying.
But you should, because the bad joke was directly and exactly ON YOU. You are the one being laughed at. Care about the war? Care about the fighting man? Well, the message of the joke was, fuck you, I’m the president, I started the war, and if the WMDs that I said were so important aren’t there after all, then HAR HAR HAR.
Get it?
Forget it, it’s a rhetorical question. I don’t care whether you get or not, at this point. If you don’t have enough sense to know when somebody is playing you for a fool and laughing in your face, that’s not my problem.
Richard Bottoms
Khan. I’m laughing at the superior intellect.
Full power.
No sir! You have Genesis. You can have whatever you want!
Full power. Damn you.
I’ll say this for him. He’s consistent.
— Kirk, Khan, Joaquim, STTWOK
ppGaz
That’s Paul C. Roberts. Wish I had written it.
But you see, after all that, at least the crazy motherfucker of a president can laugh in your face about it.
See, that’s what’s important.
DougJ
Great, now I’m sure the loony left will be blaming Cheney for the heart attack. Like getting peppered with buckshot could have any effect on your cardiovascular system. Put on your tin foil hats, boys.
ppGaz
No controlling legal authority would say that Cheney is responsible for the man’s heart attach, Doug.
Back off.
yet another jeff
Can we blame the victim for the heart attack too?
DougJ
No one could have anticipated that filling a 78 year-old man with buckshot would have harmed his health.
StupidityRules
Stormy wisely said:
I ask to have my previous post redacted. Seems like Stormy after all might be right.
DougJ
I’m getting reports that this guy smoked, that he never exercised, that he drank excessively. He was practically begging for a heart attack. He might as well have drawn a a big “X” on his chest.
John Cole
ATTN: Humor Police
Now that Whittington has had a heart attack, are the Cheney jokes no longer funny? Please let me know.
jaime
I blame the liberal media for reporting on this at all. I agree with Tucker Carlson in asking “Why is Vice President Dick Cheney’s shooting of his 78 year old friend in the face with a shotgun sending him to the ICU and causing a heart attack any of the public’s business”?
The right wanted this to be a silly little hinting mishap. Hence “peppered” and “very stable condition” all the while blaming the poor old man for getting in the way of Cheney’s gun. Now its serious and the blame will be placed at everyone except the guy who pulled the trigger.
jaime
I’m a big fan of black humor.
DougJ
My vote: if they’re calling it a “minor heart attack” it’s still fair game.
Pb
Al Maviva,
Judging from the response here, I guess it surprises no one that everyone involved at said hunting party is a FoB and/or FoC, who was rewarded for said friendship, loyalty, and campaign contributions to an unqualified crony appointment to something-or-another, past or present, and that the press is apparently incapable of reporting on that angle of the story. Even if we’re talking about a hunting accident, and one of the crony-packed organizations happens to be the National Park System Advisory Board, or the Private Lands Advisory Board of Texas Parks and Wildlife. Liberal media? Business as usual?
Richard Bottoms
It’s well known I wouldn’t piss on George Bush if he was on fire, and I’m getting lectured about how serious to take the clown car administration.
No that’s funny.
yet another jeff
Kinda like with Katrina, nobody dodged the bullet.
DougJ
Fuck it — none of us is laughing at Whittington. We’re laughing about how the White House is lying to us all about this. If I got shot and the White House lied about it, I’d want people to make fun of them for it. So it’s fair game, no matter what.
Richard Bottoms
Watching the right screech to halt about how silly all this is. Now that’s funny.
Funnier stilll if he dies.
Just not, funny ha-ha.
I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die.
— Johnny Cash
ppGaz
Suppose I’m president. Suppose I know a really funny, bawdy, but offensive dirty joke.
Now suppose I get up in front of microphones and cameras and tell this joke. Some people in the room laugh.
Others are offended.
What kind of fucking asshole of a president would do a thing like that?
George W. Bush, that’s who.
“Humor police?” There is a time and place for everything, but I don’t know of any time or place when a president can get up in front of the country and joke about the fact that his main stated reason for a war turned out to be wrong. There is no time or place for that.
That isn’t “humor police.” It’s common fucking decency.
MAX HATS
If this poor man dies, what are the odds Cheney will be held legally liable by the great state of Texas?
I’m asking because my calculator is broken or something and won’t divide by zero.
Halffasthero
I always hop into these discussions late. Anything I say at this point would fall under the Department of Redndancy Department.
I know nothing about hunting but I am from Minnesota where hunting is 2nd only to hockey. I have frat brothers who do hunt and most of them think the sun shines out GWB’s ass. And they thought Cheney was careless with a capital “C”. It was fun watching them admit as much. It just had to hurt. : )
By the way, I had not seen Stormy post much. It s good to see she hasn’t changed. Certain things in life I am beginning to count on. Good vodka and good rants. This blog never lets me down.
Mr Furious
Well if one of those BBs travelled to his heart, I would hold Cheney responsible—even if not legally.
One of the many medical breakdowns scattered about “the internets” yesterday mentioned pellets entering the bloodstream and getting lodged elsewhere in the body as a specific risk. They actually mentioned lodging in the lower leg/feet, but no reason it couldn’t be in the heart, I suppose…
That’s why the Right is wrong to pretend there’s nothing to this. 78 year olds start out at a bit of a disadvantage when getting shot in the face. It’s not like “West Coast” Cheney shot a felllow twenty year old rapper…
Do you think if Dick “Bypass” Cheney had caught the birdshot about the face and head, they’d be dismissing this as “no biggie”?
Assholes.
ppGaz
You can rest assured that somebody would be.
On the chance that I’m the only heart attack survivor posting here, let me say this about this story: There is no such thing as a “minor heart attack.” Unless one just has a death wish, that is.
Richard Bottoms
Ak-47 is the tool. Don’t make me act a motherfucking fool.
— Ice Cube, NWA
DougJ
That would have been labeled “gang related”, quail or no quail. The NYT would say “Trouble seemed to follow Dick “Ghostface Killah” Cheney everywhere he went, for all of his short troubled 65 year life.”
Waxmaker
Yesterday the big issue was that Cheney doesn’t “eat what he kills.” Frankly, I still think that’s the biggest issue here.
If Whittington dies, I hope that Cheney will do the right thing.
And eat him.
jaime
Trouble seemed to follow Dick “Ghostface Killah” Cheney everywhere he went
Mr Furious
As far as John’s response to me and ppGaz (and others) I did specifically say that it “reflected poorly on you” but I meant that bragging about it now does. With the benefit of hindsight and reflection, I’d like to think that you would understand why that joke was objectionable coming from the Commander in Chief, and you might be embarrassed to admit you thought that was funny at the time—for whatever reason.
It may not reflect poorly on you as a person to laugh at something inappropriate—Lord knows I’ve done it often enough myself—but I know better than to be proud of it after the fact.
jaime
Oops…stupid fingers…Now I’ll finish my joke
Would this make Donald Rumsfeld “Old Dirty Bastard”?
DougJ
Rat-a-tat, tatta-tat like that, never hesitate to put a hunter on his back.
Darrell
What are they “lying” about? What’s funny is how the left is desperately trying to make a federal case over this accident.. some openly rooting for the man to die so they can use his death to bash Cheney.
DougJ
Cheney Rules Everything Around Me, Jaime.
DougJ
Darrell — you’re here finally. Now I can get back to work.
Pooh
Well, since the seal has been broken…
All Cheney needs to do now is say that Whittington is in his last throes, and he’ll be running marathons next week.
Doug
It makes sense that Cheney’s weapons, like that of the Nazgul, contain metal forged in Mordor. So, like the splinter from the ringwraith’s knife, the shot from Cheney’s rifle is working its way toward the heart of its victim.
muddy
What I see as the difference between ordinary garden variety black humor and the tasteless WMD joke by the prez is that it isn’t funny coming from the *perpetrator*. That’s the key to me.
Jokes about Cheney shooting someone can be funny, but it would not be very funny if Cheney came on TV and started joking about how he shot a man. If Whittington wants to joke, it’s okay – he’s the victim. People making jokes about Ted Kennedy and Kopechne, fine. Kennedy making jokes about it, not.
To me it’s a bit like the law saying that criminals can’t profit from the crime. So if serial killers are not allowed to profit from a book they write, then the prez should not “profit” (i.e. getting a laugh, being seen as self-deprecating) from a war that he started. I have not heard a lot of Iraqis joking about the war.
Mr Furious
To: John
From: Sgt. Furious, Humor Police
If Whittington dies, I’d say various spokespeople around the White House better stop cracking jokes about it. And Dick Cheney sure as shit better not bust out any quail hunting humor at the next media dinner…
I’d say it would slow down the Lettermans, but not so much the Jon Stewarts.
And you? You clearly have an excellent joke filter, John. Fire at will.
jaime
If you ever go hunting with Cheney “Check yourself before you wreck yourself…Cause shotgun bullets are bad for your health”
Faux News
Vixen News (Stormy) and Ann Coulter were JUST about to make that SAME arguement. Speaking of Mr. Coulter here is a great interview with “her”:
http://www.whitehouse.org/ask/ann_coulter.asp
Richard Bottoms
Maybe we aren’t giving the Bush administration credit for ruthlessness.
Laura Bush – Runs stop sign, kills own boyfriend.
George Bush – Send 160,000 into battle, 2250 killed, 16,000 wounded but still see the lighter side of the Iraq results
Dick Cheney – Blasts a man with a shotgun, blows town with his posse and dares anyone to say something about it.
These people could give the Crips lessons.
Pooh
That song just keeps on giving…”dropping bombs on your moms”
Mr Furious
You got an example, asshole? Or are you full of straw man shit as usual?
That’s what I thought.
Darrell’s here, nothing to see here folks, go back to your business…
John Cole
If I were Bush I would never have done it.
Richard Bottoms
Now that’s funny.
Black humor. What a concept.
Pooh
Senator Speaks, you listen.
DougJ
Maybe shooting Whittington was an accident but dancing around his prone body and chanting “Big time Dick ain’t nothing to fuck with” while flashing gang signals — that seemed a bit unbecoming of a vice-president to me.
Brainster
I’m with you on Milbank; he showed the appropriate sense of humor about the story (assuming this heart attack is not serious of course). Of course, the Left-Wing blogs, who were tripping all over themselves to put up Cheney as Elmer Fudd photoshops have suddenly decided that it’s not funny– coincidentally at about the same time that the Right-Wingers decided it was something of a hoot.
Milbank’s always struck me as liberal but not leftist; he skewered Cindy Sheehan with a fair amount of glee, and his column on John Conyers’ impeachment “hearings” a few months ago was guite enjoyable.
Mr Furious
Exactly. That means you agree it was inappropriate, you just have your humor/inappropriate filter dialed differently than ppGaz and I do.
jaime
What I heard was the shooting was preceded by taunts of “If I’m a bastard then you’re a bastard, everybody’s a bastard. Get the Gats cause shit is drastic”
Darrell
While I think the left is making a mountain out of a molehill to a degree far greater than the right is trying to minimize it, Steve does touch on a valid point, especially regarding those conservatives whose first reaction was “these kind of accidents happen all the time”.
Now that reaction kinda pisses me off. A hunting accident like this should be used a sobering reminder that gun safety is serious shit.. an up close and personal reminder that if you’re not careful, you could lose a friend just like that. Can you imagine if a gun went off during cleaning which resulted in a minor fleshwould to a child? Would the first reaction be “Oh be happy don’t worry, this kind of accident happens all the time”? Hell no it wouldn’t. It would be “Oh my god, how thankful we are it wasn’t worse.. and what in the hell were you doing cleaning a loaded gun you idiot!”
This ‘accidents like this happen all the time’ response is not appropriate
dirk
You have the unerring discriminatory faculties of a Vice President. The answer is: Cheney jokes aren’t funny if told by Cheney, because, wait for it, he pulled the trigger. It’s not rocket surgery.
SeesThroughIt
Freedom got an AK!
Buck the devil, buck the devil, buck the devil, BOOM!
I believe the convo between Cheney and his victom went something like this:
CHENEY: What’s happenin’, G? Ayyo, you know you won, right?
VICTIM: Won what?
CHENEY: The wet T-shirt contest, muhfucka! [shoots victim]
Man, if we wanna get gangsta rap with it, I could go for days….
Richard Bottoms
No, no.
It’s: Don’t fuck with Dick.
DougJ
Do you think there might be a Brokeback angle to all of this, if you know what I mean? Those manly men from Wyoming, you know.
DougJ
Before the shots were fired, Cheney was heard sobbing “This is the only way I know how to quit you.”
jaime
I guess Whittington missed the Ranch’s warning sign
Strap on your Compton hat, your locs And watch your back cause you might get smoked, loc
Darrell
Why yes, asshole, I do
Others more subtle:
Andrew
CBS News’s Mark Knoller reports:
AP’s Nedra Pickler reports:
Mmmmm. Tasty quail.
Mr Furious
Fair enough. That’s makes me the asshole. Not as big an asshole as “Radioleft” but you backed it up Darrell.
Note to Dick Cheney and others on the right: It’s called admitting you were wrong. try sometime.
DougJ
Solid Wu-Tang knowledge there, Jaime. I’m impressed.
Paul Wartenberg
Based on the current event reporting on Whittington’s status I’m not laughing so much now.
Heart attack? Because one of the pea-sized shots migrated into his blood stream and into his heart? This doesn’t jibe with the Cheney-backed reports of Whittington being barely injured (they, what, suggested it was no worse than bruising?), I mean the shot had to have dug in deep into the flesh to be able to get into the blood stream! This is a serious injury here! Not at all good. I didn’t much trust Cheney’s version of events but now I’m not buying a goddamned word of it.
Mr Furious
Yeah, I saw that story too. sort of “blows a hole” in the meme of a worry-stricken Cheney concerned only with the welfare of Whittingham. Not exactly pacing the halls at the hospital now, is he?
You’ve got time for dinner, Dick, you’ve got time to meet with your staff and come up with a fucking statement.
Richard 23
Oh yeah, during today’s press gaggle McClellan resisted answering questions about the “hunting accident,” insisting instead on focussing on issues the American people were interested in (eg, Health Savings Accounts, permanent tax cuts, etc).
At the end of his quacking he flashed the sign of the devil or the hang loose hand sign and said “Go Longhorns.”
Ha! The American people place a high priority on a Longhorns victory? Quack quack quack.
StupidityRules
Michelle Malkin (or her husband, housekeeper, paper delivery boy or whoever is on her payroll) is asking for a moratorium on the jokes from all sides since the news about the possible heart attack.
I really wish she/he/whatever cared as much about the people that has and is going to lose their lives over the Danish cartoons. But instead of trying to calm that down, she/he/whatever is happily stoking the fire.
jaime
So you have an out of context quote and a purposefully mis-characterized quote and attribute them to the entire “left”. Darrell, you’re a pitiful POS.
Care to share any of your Chappaquiddick jokes? Good thing Mary Jo Kopechne died or you’d have nothing to club Teddy Kennedy over the head with.
DougJ
No one is laughing at Whittington, we’re laughing at the fact the White House expects us to buy their half-baked stories about how no one coached the ranch owner, how everyone was too busy to talk to the media, and so on. We all hope Whittington gets better. Even though the Whitehouse has as much as said it was all his fault and he deserved it.
neil
Stolen from Political Animal:
‘Shoot first, and refuse to answer questions later’
DougJ
No, let’s not joke about it, but let’s all agree that Whittington wasn’t following hunting protocol and that his injuries are as much a testament to Cheney’s superior marksmanship as anything else.
jaime
Katherine Armstrong’s aural recollection of the accident.
“Someone in the back went clack, clack.”
Thanks DougJ…got them on my Ipod. It’s very eclectic. I’d be just as prepared with Roy Orbison, Kronos Quartet, Waylon Jennings jokes.
yet another jeff
Yeah…the Longhorn team members were touring the White House today. If the American People have a problem with the mention, I think they might want to focus on an actual issue.
Pb
Andrew, Mr Furious,
They were so consumed with worry that they couldn’t notify the public–they just talked it over with Karl Rove instead.
Pooh
Jaime, Doug would it be too far to go with a spin-off and say “I came to bring the pain, birdshot to the brain, step inside my line of aim”?
Pb
DougJ, Jaime,
All of this Wu Tang talk almost makes me want to sew [Darrell] closed and keep feedin’ [him], an’ feedin’ [him]…
DougJ
I like it, pooh. Where’s it from?
mojo
Hell, I applaud anytime anyone shoots a lawyer, for any reason. They’re a blight on the ecology.
Now, about those “School Boards”…
Mr Furious
Fucking funny, Pooh. I just laughed out loud. Hard. Fine, all bets are off, joke at will.
Post of the day.
Pooh
DougJ,
Method Man, “Bring the Pain”
Pb,
that’s genius.
Rick Taylor
Hello, John.
I’m a liberal, and cynical about this administration, but even I’m surprised at how incompetently it has responded to this. Accidents happen, and even if Chenney was at fault (as seems likely), I don’t think that has any bearing on his ability to be Vice President. But why on earth didn’t they make an announcement of this early on? Why on earth didn’t he make a public statement that he very much regrets the accident, and is praying for Mr. Whittington’s recovery? I just don’t get it.
–Rick Taylor
Lines
Personal Responsibility, bitches!
Oh, and Michael Moore is fat.
jaime
He shot the gun so he is at fault no matter what the apologists tell you.
yet another jeff
Well, when I was taking the hunter safety class in Texas as a teen, we were instructed “never point your gun at anything you don’t intend to shoot…ever”.
Remember that Onion article that said Cheney would attack the US if Kerry won?
Lines
So for the Stormy’s out there: I hunt. A lot. I train bird dogs, a work them until they drop sometimes. I hunt terrain that sometimes looks like a maze, where other hunters can be seen or not seen from moving 2 feet in any direction.
Accidents like this are NOT common. Being “peppered” from someone 3 fields away might happen once every 10 years for a hunter thats out a lot, and even that is rare.
When hunting in a group, or with other people, though, there is NEVER an excuse for something like this, and it is NEVER the fault of the person that gets shot. There is nothing another hunter can do that would ever excuse the shooter from negligence. Any and all attempts by people like Sistah Stormy is just trying to make an excuse pathway for her best torture buddy, Cheney.
Number 9 pellets are small, about the size of a fork tine point. .08″ to be exact. Human skin and muscle being what it is, would make a 90 yard shot just about useless for penetration, there just isn’t enough mass/momentum. They are LYING. 100% guarantee its a lie.
If he dies, Cheney should be brought up on manslaughter charges, and if he isn’t, then there are double standards that Republicans need to admit to. Screw your Chappequidick, I could care less, you’ve over-played that story a long time ago, and its no excuse for another manslaughterer to get off.
Lines
Make that a 30 yard shot/ 90 feet. Thats what I meant, just tripped over my own factoid.
Mr Furious
Welcome to the party, Lines. One small quibble: You said 90 yards. Nobody is saying 90 yards, the common distance I’ve seen is 30 yards (ie: 90 feet)—is that what you meant?
Cheney will never be charged with manslaughter. Bank on it. It was a straight up accident due to his negligence, but if anything arises of it, it will not translate into any significant sanction for him. And honestly, I’m not sure he should be charged.
Mr Furious
Check that. All bets are off if Cheney was drunk! But they’ve taken care of that, now, haven’t they…
SeesThroughIt
Dick got his shotgun, and here’s the plot
Takin’ lawyers out with a flurry of buckshot
Boom boom boom–yeah, he was gunnin’
And then you look, all you see is lawyers runnin’
And fallin’ and yellin’ and screamin’ and cussin’
Cheney stepped back, then he kept bustin’
Then he realized, it’s time for him to go
So he stopped, jumped in the vehicle….
ppGaz
Self appointed humor lieutenant sez:
Funniest thing in the thread so far.
Lines
If a guy negligently shoots a companion in the field, it is the DA’s call whether he is charged with manslaughter or just criminal negligence, regardless, the person is in trouble.
What if Al Queda takes this as an opportunity now? How many “hunting accidents” have to happen before it becomes a terrorist plot?
And think about the children, when their leaders get off on reckless endangerment and criminal negligence, how long before kids are juggling nitro or running on the stairs with scissors?
Personal Responsibility, bitches.
Paul Wartenberg
That depends. Always the possibility a guilt-striken Secret Service guy or doctor coughs up incriminating evidence…
DougJ
Okay, I’m not saying this is funny — it’s not — but it is a strange, strange coincidence. Australian t.v. is releasing new photos from Abu Grhaib and here is a description of some of the photos
machs
The new urban tattooing craze, shotgun pocksmanship!
an american
Well, this whole thing, from Cheney mistaking a tall, 78-year-old man wearing a blaze orange cap and vest for a small bird to the way the administration released the news pretty much epitomizes their skill and competence. With an exclamation mark.
Evildoer quail. Wonder if Cheney in future speeches will ask audiences to remember February the 11th?
EL
Something is sounding very strange. I’ve seen several reports that the Corpus Christi doctors are consulting with the White House doctors because “they did the initial treatment.” This makes zero sense to me, unless the White House medical people took over at the hospital at some point. If they did the field treatment/initial stabilization, they’d have nothing to add at this point. At all.
To help visualize this, how often does your internist, cardiologist or surgeon go back to “consult” with the ER doc who evaluated you? During the years I was in the ER, the answer was “zip.” They may catch me up on the outcome, but you can bet that’s it.
skip
“This ‘accidents like this happen all the time,’ response is not appropriate”
Well not to me, or anyone I know. And if something like this did happen, I’d call the cops–not hide from them.
There is no workable explanation for the delay.
ppGaz
In tomorrow’s episode, Cheney will be trapped in a tower, surrounded by police.
Turn away if you don’t want the ending revealed …..
.
.
.
.
Cheney: “Mother of mercy … is the end of Dick-o?”
THE END
ppGaz
* is this the end *
jaime
Speaking of black humor:
http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2006/02/14/INSIDE-PROTEST.jpg
Perry Como
That looks like my average Thursday.
ppGaz
Who got into one of our management meetings?
The Disenfranchised Voter
I’m the biggest fan of black humor there is.
One of my favorite jokes is this:
What is the best thing about having sex with twenty-nine year olds?
There is twenty of ’em.
With that said. The WMD joke was not funny–at all. In fact it was a disgrace. And if Whittington does die, then the Cheney jokes won’t be funny anymore. If Whittington passes, you won’t hear me making anymore jokes about it.
The Disenfranchised Voter
PS The Dana Milbank thing was funny as hell. Anyone who disagrees needs to get a sense of humor. Last night, when Milbank wore the uniform, Whittington was in good health.
The faux outrage at Milbanks outfit is just laughable.
Perry Como
John is going to ban me for this.
Why didn’t Superman stop 9/11?
.
.
.
.
He was in a wheel chair.
DougJ
I guess different things offend different people, because I think I’m fairly easily offended, but I don’t find joking about Whittington, or the Bush WMD thing, or the Tom Toles cartoon or any of the “black humor” here offensive.
But show me a cartoon mocking the prophet Mohammed and I’m ready to take down a McDonald’s.
jaime
I detest McDonald’s sacreligious anthropomorphization of food stuffs.
Richard 23
Here’s a bit of a recap with something I hadn’t heard before in CTV’s story “Cheney hunting victim suffers minor heart attack”
OK, so Katherine Armstrong was in the car, didn’t hear Whittington announce himself while creeping up on Cheney before he was peppered in the face with a 28 gauge shotgun. Fine.
But why would she then relate the part about the security detail rushing in and remark that she thought “he” (I’m assuming she means Cheney here) was having a “heart problem.” It sounds to me like this is the first sign she noticed that something had gone wrong. I guess if “peppering” is common, maybe that makes sense. Eh?
She also describes Cheney’s demeanor as he consumed his dinner as “very concerned.” I guess he went light on the antelope and Doctor Pepper. Hmmm. OK.
I wonder if Lynne Cheney knows that the Swiss Miss her husband was hunting with is a cutie? (Pamela Willeford). She’d happily hunt with him again. Hmmm. OK.
Oh well. It’s not a big story.
Darrell
Case in point:
Later Gregory held his breath while stamping his foot and whimpering, finally spitting out his mashed potatoes.
Darrell
You’re not very choosy in who you call a “cutie” are you?. Whatever floats your boat
ppGaz
Well, this story is not going away … it’s catching fire.
A doctor on Hardball has stated that the victim’s heart has been “penetrated” by the buckshot, not that some shot has migrated “to the heart” …. which makes the distance of the shooting as reported, and in fact the entire cock and bull story being advanced out of Texas, complete and utter bullshit.
They are lying about this story. This man was very likely shot at much closer range, and the reason why we didn’t hear about it for so long …. will turn out to be entirely self serving.
Was Cheney drunk? Why did a civilian first report the story? A man goes to the hospital with a gunshot wound and the police are not brought in? What the hell is going on here?
Maybe nothing terribly wrong, but like everything else, these guys are fucking this up more and more with every passing hour. This is your government at work, folks.
Idiots, liars, fools, in your face stupid jerks.
jaime
Darrell, are your lips fused on Dick Cheney’s package? You know there is a medical procedure for that.
David Gregory and the Press Corps was pissed because Scott McClellan and this White House does nothing but lie to them. It takes a special kind of idiot that accepts anything he says at face value.
How much can you take Darrell? How many punches in the face are you willing to take before you accept that ‘he don’t love you no more’?
Richard 23
ppGaz:
Well if it had been you or I, do you think the police would have allowed us to talk to them the next day?
A “civilian” lying to the press about the story would tend to shield the vp from lying to the press, right?
I listened to the last two press gaggles. Has anyone asked if Cheney or any in the hunting party were drinking alcohol? How did the police determine that alcohol played no part? Testing or questioning?
Please provide a link to the hardball assertion about penetrating vs migrating.
SeesThroughIt
Well, at least Grimace is safe because he resembles…nothing. But how dare you besmirch the good name of Mayor McCheese!
Pooh
FerousCrannus fears no blow. If he keeps his mind impervious, he avoids all pain. It’s sort of like when you go out in the cold and your toes go numb, and it hurts like hell when they start to warm up – when and if he allows orginal thought to penetrate, the pain will be immense.
ppGaz
Matthews: What do you think about the fact that Cheney never talked to the President about this until Monday, two days after the thing happened?
Maher: Wow, you’d think it was a hurricane.
—-//
Matthews chosen mouthpiece for the adminstration, Ron somebody or other, actually said this on tv just minutes ago:
Q: Did Cheney handle this situation properly?
A: Yes. Yes, he did.
—/
You can’t make these fuckers up! Nobody would believe it.
GFY. It’s not my job to provide links to things I see on tv. The transcript will be up tomorrow, find it and read it yourself.
ppGaz
Also, in my timezone, MSNBC will rebroadcast at midnight Pacific time.
ppGaz
Dr. Soumitra Eachempati, expert witness on Countdown:
“It appears that a pellet penetrated to or up against the surface of the heart.”
(The doctor also stated that it apparently penetrated the pericardium).
“It is extremely unlikely that at (the reported distance of) 30 yards, the pellets could have even penetrated the clothing or skin.”
—-//
Like I said, the story we have now is likely to turn out to be pure bullshit.
Sock Puppet
A patch you may wish to order to show your support of the Vice President during his current troubles.
http://www.vm68.com/me/patches/drunks_with_guns.jpg
ppGaz
Uh, yeah, 30 yards. Sure. Right.
ppGaz
I think we have enough now to say with confidence that it is not likely that this shooting happened at a distance of 30 yars, as reported.
In short, we still don’t have a very good idea at all what really happened out there. Because the people who know aren’t telling a straight story.
Discuss.
Pooh
Cue the Senator berating us for drawing conclusions without knowing all the facts. Wait, I thought this was an NSA thread, my bad…
DougJ
Do you mean that guy who was a staffer for some Republican — he’s African-American and has something wrong with one of his eyes? I really feel sorry for that guy. They put him on whenever something really indefensible happens.
John Redworth
I agree John that this has been exposed more than I dreamed it would have but there are a few things that must be said:
1) I wish I was still in college or high school enrolled in a political class since we are experiencing some amazing events as far controll, checks and balances, media relations and secrecy… back in my day (oh those 80s) it got tiresome listening about Dick Nixon…
2) Those conservative blogs/sites need to take a drink and shut the hell up… I can understand some outrage that your party’s man is getting mocked but fake outrage is worse in my books… not to mention that some (Jeb, Scottie, etc…) have had some fun with it too… that is before the minor heartattacks though…
3) The moment that Malkin, Capt Ed, etc… show pity and outrage over subjects I question what it means politically… since these same people made jokes about John Edwards wife when the big “C” scare happened…
EL
On the penetration vs. migration issue – I saw quotes from a thoracic surgeon (have to try to find them again) saying that contrary to what many doctors speculated, it couldn’t have been migration. He based this on the size of the pellet and the fact that it was lodged in the muscle, irritating the atrium. I would say a thoracic or cardiac surgeon is the person to know, short of someone with access to the patient’s records.
HH
“…imagine that you’re a dad who just got a visit from the Marine Corps telling you that your son is dead over there. And next day, you see that “skit” on television.
Then, imagine that you are just the neighbor of the dad. Do you think it’s funny?”
But apparently Whittington’s family are supposed to find Milbank a laugh riot?
You people are just too much with your constant hypocrisy.
EL
I disagree. Yesterday we were hearing how Whittington’s injuries were very mild, the equivalent of scratching and bruising. That’s not the same as a dead child.
ppGaz
Your arm must be in a sling now. That is the biggest stretch to construct a strawman I have ever seen.
I imagine you’ll be able to resume normal activities in a few days after the swelling goes down.
ppGaz
Yes, that’s the guy. He looked like they basically strapped him to the outside of the shuttle during reentry and said, “Hang tough, just repeat the talking points, no matter how hot it gets.”
Poor bastard.
rilkefan
jaime, got any with the punchline, “The Kronos Quartet in a blender”?
DougJ
HH, take your act to rathergate or scrutator or redstate.
rilkefan
Sounds like the hero of Daniel Pennac’s Malaussene series about a professional scapegoat.
Mr Furious
Here are the choices available for Cheney:
1. It happened just like they claim. Following a bird, fires, hits Whittington at a distance of thirty yards. Clear violation of many rules of common sense and hunter’s protocol. A terrible mistake by Cheney. Story is dependant on assigning Whittingham some blame. Unfortunately for Cheney this is starting to seem implausible…
2. Not exactly like they claim. Following a bird, fires, hits Whittington at a distance much closer than 30 yards. Meaning Whittingham was right next to or behind Cheney. Close enough that Cheney knew he was there when he raised his gun, but lost track while following his target. Whittingham is completely absolved—even by hard-core Cheney-apologists. A clear fuck-up by Cheney. Since that is like Fonzie saying he’s “sorry”, they start to concoct an “enhanced” version of events to take heat off Cheney.
3. A Dumb Cover-Up. Cheney shot Whittingham while they were walking the line, by doing something retarded like stumbling with his finger on the trigger or dropping his gun. This, too, was an untenable story to release for a macho-man like the Veep, since there was no other patsy to have holding the gun, they contrived a “more manly” mistake. Once again, this was dependant on Whittingham’s injuries remaining minor.
4. Necessary Cover-Up. It happened like one of the above choices, with the added wrinkle that Cheney was impaired. This requires a cover-up, and starts to explain the delay in releasing the story and particularly explains why Cheney was not interviewed by police until the next day.
In scenarios 1-3 Cheney would have best served with being honest and coming forward immediately. Of course, that is completely unnatural for this crew, thus the corner they’ve painted themselves into. In scenario 4, with Cheney criminally responsible, I almost cannot blame them for a cover-up… which is why anything falling short of that, it was stupid to lie/delay.
Things I feel comfortable labelling “facts”:
1. Armstrong wasn’t close enough to know what the fuck happened. Not if she thought the medical team was running to assist a Cheney “heart problem.” Her account is horseshit. Why they trotted her out to release the info is beyond me, and might be the biggest mistake they made. (Aside from shooting a guy in the face).
2. Cheney is completely at fault for the shooting. Regardless of whether Whittingham screwed up by leaving the line. Their story is that Whittingham snuck up behing the VP without announcing himself. Irrelevant. For him to get shot means Cheney wheeled around and fired behind himself. What the fuck was he thinking? He’s lucky he didn’t nail a SS agent.
3. Cheney sat down to a dinner at the ranch while a guy he was hunting with hours earlier was lying in the ICU with his shotgun load in his face. Worse than Brownie looking for a happy hour after Katrina. Come on, Cheney, you fucking shot the guy in the face, I don’t care if everyone thought he’d be fine, drag your sorry ass to the hospital and act concerned. Pace around outside his room. Have a creme soda, do some fucking thing.
Mr Furious
Jesus. Nice screw up with the tags: There’s no link behind “facts” That should have closed the boldface. And then the rest should just have had bold numbers…
And I can’t believe I referred to the guy as Whittingham most of the time…
Ugh. That’ll teach me to post at 2 am.
HH
“Oh, and Michael Moore is fat.”
Actually the focus on weight is part of the 2008 platform for the DNC…
HH
So Countdown is “funny as hell,” except this part was not so you’re not a hypocrite – what was the point again? Oh yeah, Bush is bad, I forgot, you didn’t make that one clear…
HH
“HH, take your act to rathergate or scrutator or redstate.”
Because only high-minded concepts like which joke is funny are allowed here…
Faux News
You’re right, Gregory actly badly. He should have followed Cheney’s lead in giving Scott the middle finger and shouted “Fuck You”!
Richard 23
MSNBC Scrubs Beer Line from Cheney Story
I guess that paragraph was irrelevant.
Paul L.
This reminded me of the Balloon Juice regulars.
Dick and Cover
“First, I’m glad Dick Cheney hasn’t shot anyone since the weekend. I can’t believe how much joy our socialist press is getting from his hunting accident. I can see why. After all, it involves a gun, a White Male, Republicans, and hunting. It proves Cheney is bad. It proves guns are bad. It proves hunting is bad. And somehow, down deep in the bubbling cesspit known as the liberal mind, it proves having a penis is bad. If Cheney were an effeminate liberal who had had a yoga accident, no one would care.
Getting hit with a little birdshot, while not enjoyable or something to look forward to, is generally not a big deal. Of course, liberal reporters won’t understand that. These are the same imbeciles who think shotguns are rifles. I assure you, the majority of them think birdshot is a type of bullet.
Birdshot is tiny lead pellets. I don’t know what size Cheney was using, but the Internet says you use 7 1/2 or 8 for quail. Those babies are around the size of a sesame seed. Not likely to be lethal unless you catch a whole bunch of them. Have any reporters mentioned this? Not to my knowledge. But then reporters are generally borderline stupid.”
Lines
Whats your point, Paul L? I’m a liberal, I hunt, I own farm land where I provide nesting areas for game birds, I train and raise gun dogs and I have a pretty full safe full of various guns.
Are you trying to be funny? Because that post was anything but.
The guy has a 7 1/2 lead pellet lodged next to his pericardium causing irregular heart palpatations and eventually will weaken and infect the lining around the heart, causing other pulminary disorders.
perhaps you are just too out of touch to have noticed that the lies from your gun-nut right groups have been debunked by the facts around the case, such as the 30yard distance. Or maybe you’re just intentionally ignorant?
HH is just a lame troll, you on the other hand, attempt to justify your lame stances with whatever facts agree with you. I’m not sure which is better at this point.
ppGaz
HH is most likely a spoof.
Lines
Newest fact released by the secret service: the shooting occurred 20 minutes later than stated previously. That puts the shooting during a full dusk/sunset.
More and more the facts line up that Cheney shot a man because of his own fallability, not because of any fault of Whittingham.
Fuck you right wing apologists. Your lies are compounding on you and you’re going to get your due on this one.
Paul L.
I never claimed anyting about 30 yards. What are the guns right group saying about the Cheney hunting accident that is not factual? Link please.
I was pointing out that Gun Fearing Wussies/Reporters have no idea that a shotgun affects a area and does not shoot a single bullet.
Lines
Paul, who is saying it shoots a single bullet? Link please?
Your link above goes on to blame the victim and berate liberals for misperceptions in an attempt to divert away from the truth: The Vice President shot a man, in the fact and neck, at a range closer than their claims, and is avoiding personal responsibility for it.
and this type of bullshit is just beyond the pale:
You think thats funny, Paul? Do you even think thats worth linking to? Why are you such an asshole? I’d say its because you’re a Republican, but you even give Republican’s a bad name.
EL
Firstly, your argument appears to depend on Mr. Whittington having not “caught a whole bunch of them,” which doesn’t accord with what we are hearing – “more than 10 and less than 150-200” was one estimate. I confess I’m surprised we aren’t getting better estimates on this – when you look at an X-ray, the pellets light up against soft tissue like a night sky full of stars. You wouldn’t count every one, but the doctor could damn well tell if it were more like ten, more like 50, or more like 100.
Second, there are many factors involved besides the size of the pellet. Key is the velocity – moderate and high velocity wounds are different from low velocity wounds. The velocity indicates the energy transferred to the tissues, and is one predictor of the amount of damage. Shot gun wounds are classified by most as moderate velocity (More than you ever wanted to know here) but have some characteristics of high velocity wounds.
The original report made it sounds like Whittington was at the extreme edge of range, meaning the pellets would have little energy left to penetrate, and would get stuck in the skin, or perhaps barely under it. What we’re now hearing is inconsistent with this. He obviously did catch several, with enough velocity to penetrate to the heart. If one penetrated to the heart, you can bet several others penetrated other places. Aside from bone, the next most resistant to penetration is skin. The other organs are awfully soft.
ppGaz
From last night’s posting:
I picked it up from Slate, IIRC.
ppGaz
In case anyone doesn’t get the joke, which I deem to be extremely funny in my capacity as joke reviewer … there is NO FUCKING WAY the man was shot from a distance of 30 yards, based on what we have today.
So, what other details of the story have been manipulated by the lying sonsabitches that run our country?
Lines
Other details that the “defend Cheney” group have manipulated:
The shooting is reported to have happened at 5:30pm, but Secret Service has said it was 5:50pm.
There was beer present at the luncheon.
Armstrong did not actually witness the shooting.
Armstrong was cleared by the VP office to contact the press. She claims no one contacted her. Someone is lying, unnecessarily.
Any more that I missed? I’m sure there is more, and more to come. What could have been a minor accident and blown over by the end of Monday will now become the most well defining moment of this Administration: Lying to the American People first, and letting the facts tell the truth over the next short period of time.
Why do we continue to tolerate it? Why do assholes like Paul L roll in it, pick up the scent of rotting trash, then bring it out for everyone else to smell?
Richard 23
Cheney will appear on Brit Hume’s show on Fox News Channel tonight at 6pm EST I think.
Pb
Lines,
Because they were so concerned over Whittington’s health, they didn’t alert the press or visit him at the hospital but instead called Karl Rove, ate dinner, went to sleep, and then the next day contacted a local reporter/friend of the family.
Also, it’s worth nothing that the statement given to the police is stenography, taken from the faux eye-witness.
What I find just as interesting are the political connections at work here in these Bush administration crony outings, but that angle has gotten short shrift in the media.
ppGaz
An interesting piece in today’s Miami Herald about how this administration deliberately triangulates the press and uses situations like this to its advantage. To the Bush base, watching the press go after a story like this … and getting nothing … validates their worldview. The Rovians calculate that this stuff works in their favor.
Just in case anyone still falls for “uniter, not divider” from the Little Prick President. One hopes that a president wakes up after election and realizes that he is the president of all the people, not just president of the people who voted for him. Of course, that would be the hope for a normal human being of a president, but we are stuck with these sick, sorry little sociopathic motherfuckers who don’t give a rat’s ass about the country or the people who didn’t vote for them.
Once again the strong, take-charge, up-front leadership of Bush and his lunatic VP come to the fore.
Now the cowardly Oz will go on Faux News to talk about the shooting? Gee, I wonder why he didn’t pick the 700 Club.
Lines
Pb: I think its great that there are people that want to take that political side of this story, to find out about the people present, but to me its just politics for this crew as normal everyday life. They live, breathe and create gravity for the Bushbot Worshippers. For there to be a day when a political crony or worshipper didn’t get handed their tax cut check personally, then its not a normal day for this crew.
Pay to play, thats the mantra, the motto, the modus operandi of today’s Republican controlled government. You can uncover as much of it as you want, but its always going to be ok for them, its not even to the level of excusable, its just normal.
GOP4Me
There are quite a few details that haven’t emerged about this incident yet. Leaving aside the whole rifle-equipped silencer issue, what sort of birdshot was used? Was it, in fact, buckshot? Did Cheney load his own weapon? Did Whittington load the weapon for him? Was Whittington wearing orange, or only camo? Did Cheney’s hunting partner somehow tip the rifle or otherwise affect Cheney’s aim? If we can speculate on whether or not Cheney was drinking, can we also speculate on whether or not Mr. Whittington was drunk? And at what point does all of this speculating enter the same stage of bad taste as joking about a shooting victim’s heart attack?
Well, the liberal media informs us that Cheney was hunting illegally. Clearly, this is either factually inaccurate or outright irrelevant. Next, they’ll call quail-hunting murder if they think it makes Cheney look bad. Dana Milbank, America’s greatest lawyer and expert on Texas statutory interpretation, is a prime example.
Yet liberal journalists who try to do precisely the same thing get acclaimed for it.
ppGaz
No, the authorities in Texas provided that information, you moron. Are you so addicted to GOP talking points that you can’t even state a simple fact without wrapping it the Liberal Media disclaimer?
Mac Buckets
I will bet you ten thousand million billion dollars that you are absolutely wrong, if “most well defining (?)” means anything like it sounds. The Bush Administration has undertaken controversial wars, freed countries, spurred intense debate about the role of the US military and civil liberties, shifted the Supreme Court, etc.
This…was…a…hunting…accident. Even if Cheney was doing Jack shots with bongwater chasers before he pulled the trigger, this story will be a footnote to the footnotes to the footnotes of history.
Because most people just don’t care? I mean, don’t you think that expecting politicians to tell the whole truth (to the press, no less!), especially after witnessing the last decade, is naive to the point of infantility? What benefit is telling the truth to the politicians’ careers, when it’s pretty much proven that most of the voting public doesn’t care if they lie? Democrats make excuses for lying Democrats, Republicans make excuses for lying Republicans.
Lines
Mac: I think this will define the administration, because its absolutely clear that they are lying, and that any defense given at this point is just a continuation of that lie. Before, their lies were couched behind hired guns or half-truth non-absolutes.
As has been spelled out: the cover-up is usually worse than the crime. If this is just a “minor hunting accident”, it would have blown over on Monday. Its no longer about shooting a guy in the face, its about lying about it, continuing to lie about it, and having every apologist available, from Protein Stupidity to Pigs on Ice, jumping on the “non-story” and proclaiming it’s about liberals over-reaching again.
Once you get past the inclination to call it a non-story, you’ll realize that its very non-storyness is what is creating such a buzz, such a ripe field for awareness of the plethora of lies coming out of the administration.
Lines
And Mac, why do you think we should tolerate being lied to today, just because we were lied to before? Why is that any excuse at all?
And can you please list the countries we’ve freed? I’m sure those countries would be interested to hear about that.
Mac Buckets
Nonsense. The President defines an administration, and big events define an administration. This involves neither, except to the most partisan of partisans.
Mac Buckets
Consistency? To avoid being called a hypocrite? Really, “excuse” is the wrong word — “accept the unchanging reality” might be more apt.
Mac Buckets
Please. Put the Kool-Aid down, Lines.
ppGaz
No, I think Bush has an effect on it, too.
ppGaz
Weel, but humor us. List them.
DougJ
I’m worried about what will happen if Cheney has to step down. I don’t think Karl Rove can run the country all by himself.
GOP4Me
My point is that he wasn’t hunting illegally, but the liberal media pretended he was. Are you capable of thinking things through critically, peepeegas, or do you merely accept the word of Dana Milbank as Gospel Truth surpassing all other witnesses and assertions? Can a thing be true and contrary to Dana Milbank at the same time?
Paul L.
Hume interviews Cheney
Cheney takes full responsibility. “I’m the guy who pulled the trigger that fired the round that hit Harry,”
Make of that what you will. Afterall, Janet Reno took full responsibility for Waco.
Perry Como
I disagree. Harry was at fault for hitting Cheney’s birdshot with his body.
StupidityRules
GOP4Me uttered:
Insinuating that Whittington did something with the rifle… that’s just bad.
Go read the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department report.
Then Cheney would had sacrificed him already. You really think Cheney would take the fall for someone else? Including Bush)
I think they tested Whittington at the scene. And if Whittington was drunk and Cheney wasn’t then it wouldn’t have mattered. Actually Cheney would have had to be even more careful if he was hunting with an intoxicated guy, especially if he wasn’t sure where the guy was.
I’m guessing that the more the right wing blogs blame Whittington, the more he might decide to tell what actually happened. Unless Cheney has promised him 50% of his Halliburton stock or something.
BTW, 2/11 changed everything. ;)
Lines
You think thats full responsibility? Damn, Paul, you’re more ignorant than I gave you credit for.
And you think Protein Idiots is a good link for that? They’re just happy to be lied to, they don’t give a damn for the truth, they don’t care that none of the facts line up, they just want to bash liberals
Richard 23
Cheney on TV: Takes Blame for Shooting But ‘Unapologetic’ About Aftermath, Admits Drinking One Beer at Lunch
Paul L.
Lines, that was sarcasm. As a member of the VRWC taking order from Karl Rove (sarcasm again), I know nothing happened to Janet “The Torch” Reno after she took full responsibility for Waco. (This is a cheap shot at the Clinton Administration)
My guess is nothing will happen to Cheney over the accident. Unlike a BB goes to Whittington’s brain then he will turn into Jim Brady and his wife will turn into Sarah Brady. (This is a cheap shot at the Brady Bunch of Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence / Handgun Control Inc.)
Lines
Your sarcasm needs work, and I could care less about Janet “the wookie” Reno.
If the state police had been notified that Cheney had had a beer at lunch, he never should have been allowed to leave the state, or the scene.
But of course, since John Cole is ok with people breaking 4 or 5 laws per day, Cheney is well within his acceptable limit and should be given a Presidential Medal of Shotgun Freedom.
GOP4Me
I’m not blaming Whittington for anything; the point was that blaming everything on Cheney was stupid and presumptuous. But since Cheney’s accepted responsibility already anyway (unlike a certain President who will go un-named, who, unlike Cheney, was NOT a member of the party of personal responsibility), I think the point is moot right now.
Time will tell that it certainly changed the lucky streak Democrats have been enjoying lately. You can take that to the bank and put money down on it at the bookie parlor.
ppGaz
No, it was sensible. And as it turns out, it was also correct.
GOP4Me
Cheney chose to accept responsibility for this incident because it put the matter to rest. He would’ve been equally correct in not accepting responsibility, because enough ambiguity exists in the matter that if he were the sort of person who chose to hide behind nuances like the definition of “is”, the liberal press would’ve had to let him get away with it.
I agree, though, it was sensible of him to accept responsibility and shut you kooks up about this non-story.
Richard 23
Good point. President Bush hasn’t taken any responsibility for anything. He could learn something, albeit not much, from his Vice President. Baby steps.
GOP4Me
Bush has taken responsibility for more than his share of the blame on issues from 9/11 to Katrina. Just because you liberals mock and deride it as “not enough” doesn’t mean that he wasn’t, in fact, taking too much blame and trying to cover for the mistakes of Democrats like Clinton, Nagin, and Blanco. Someday, Democrats will give him credit for this. In about 25-30 years, assuming the Democratic Party hasn’t imploded by then. Baby steps.
ppGaz
Where do you guys learn to talk this doublespeak horseshit?
Cheney WAS responsible. The fact the he said so doesn’t make him responsible. He was responsible when he pulled the trigger.
He was responsible when he let his entourage and the landscape shield him from law enforcement after the shooting, so as to protect him from being charged with drunken assault with a deadly weapon. Being drunk and shooting at people is against the law in most jurisdictions.
He was responsible when he let the story go out that he’d shot at Whittington from a distance of “30 yards” when it was probably more like 30 feet, and did nothing to correct the story.
He was responsible when he allowed the story to go out through the publishing channel owned by his friends at the ranch, rather than standing up to the public and the national press, which a vice president of the United States ought to do.
He was responsible when he chose not to immediately inform the president personally about what happened and make sure that the White House communications people were on top of the details of the story.
He “accepted” responsiblity?
Sure, after everyone in the world was demanding to know what the fuck was going on. Only after that.
ppGaz
And by the way GOP4, what the hell, are you actually Darrell? Just how many dittoheads do we frigging have to put up with around here?
Perry Como
Things I’ve learned in the past 5 days:
– It’s okay to have a beer before you pick up a gun.
– If you shoot someone in the face the police will not come talk to you until the next day, even if you had a beer before shooting the person in the face.
– There is nothing unseemly about two married men spending the day with two women that are not their wives.
– Taking a load of birdshot to the face and chest is alot like seasoning a roast.
– There is nothing unusual about a doctor saying “no comment” when asked about the victim’s blood alcohol content.
GOP4Me
Well, 8 years of Clintonism didn’t hurt…
That was the liberal media’s presumption without proof or investigation. Until Cheney graciously chose to assume all blame in this incident, his share of culpability was quite uncertain.
The unholy offspring of rank speculation shotgun-married to revolting partisanship. In situations where paragraphs like this are born, I wholeheartedly support intellectual abortion. In your case, peepee, I might also suggest some form of cognitive “birth control” by avoiding leftist propoganda at all costs.
More speculation. If he was as drunk as you say he was, how do you expect him to tell the difference between feet and yards? If he was as sober as I believe he was, isn’t it just possible that he was more concerned over his bleeding friend than he was over the amount of distance he had to cover to reach his side?
Yet if Democrat Aaron Burr were Vice President right now, I think it’s safe to say you’d wholeheartedly support that he shot Federalist (quasi-Republican) Alexander Hamilton through the lungs, not to mention his corrupt, treasonous, Tammany-loving policies. I’ve grown quite accustomed to Democratic hypocrisy in these matters.
The responsibility for informing the President involves the White House communications channels. This is no time to endanger national security and violate communication protocols just to report that some quail escaped.
It’s not as if though 24 hours’ wait is the same as the 3-year wait we had on Monica Lewinsky, peepee. Not even in the same ballpark. STILL waiting for Hillary Clinton to apologize for Vince Foster, BTW. Still waiting for Carter to apologize for Operation Eagle Claw, and for letting the Ayatollah gain power. I’ve long since given up on waiting for Democratic apologies, but when a Republican takes 24 hours you want to crucify him to the roof of the Capitol building?
Whatever you liberals are smoking, I’m pretty sure it isn’t legal.
No, I’m not Darrell. But I do think that Darrell is one of the most insightful and intellectually honest posters on this web board. You hate him because you disagree with him, but he’s got a lot of guts standing up to the gangs of Trotskyite bullies that roam this blog with impunity.
Sojourner
Yeh, fuck national security. She was only working in the area of WMD.
ppGaz
Trotskyite? Har! You ARE Darrell.
News flash, spawn of Darrell: One is not a Trotskyite for suggesting that the Vice King might be wrong about something.
StupidityRules
GOP4Me, calling “Cut-n-Paste” Darrell honest voids everything you said, even if some of it might actually have been your own thoughts.
ppGaz
I don’t think we can do better with the farcical Faux News Cheney interview today than this from Kevin Drum at WaMo:
GOP4Me
I don’t care what you say, peepee. You want to socialize the American economy and destroy private enterprise step by tax-dollared step. Where I come from, that’s called Communism. I do you the courtesy of not assuming you’re a Stalinist Communist by calling you a Trotskyite instead, and this is the thanks I get?
GOP4Me
Darrell has a lot more integrity than you do, Stupidity, and he’s willing to stand up for what he believes in. Even when 20 or 30 moonbats swoop down and try to bury him, Darrell keeps fighting the good fight. Unlike most liberals, or even some of the “conservatives” around here, who wilt and run away at the first sign of trouble. Darrell stands alone against you all. You impugn him because you’re all afraid of him. Admit it.
ppGaz
When you can produce the post that says I want such a thing, we’ll talk. Otherwise blow it out your @*&^%@&^%
GOP4Me
Come on, the first thing they teach you in Red Club is not to talk about Red Club. I think you’re an insidious presence in America, but I’d never call you stupid. I seriously doubt any post of yours says this explicitly. More along the lines of denigrating any American like Bush, who seriously holds a commitment to free market principles. Supportive of Clinton, who sought to erode capitalism while simultaneously shoring up support for its erosion through the vaunted practice of traingulating his policies into looking moderate. I know your games, so don’t expect me to play them with you.
Just out of curiosity, what did you think of Kruschev?
Pb
GOP4Me,
And you know this because…?
The ghost of Joe McCarthy lives!
ppGaz
Best dog I ever owned.
ppGaz
Best dog I ever owned.
ppGaz
I double posted that somehow. Sorry.
BillS
Anyone who thinks that Bush’s little routine about hunting for WMD is funny is retarded.
[My apologies to the mentally challenged people. Someone who sees the humor in joking about starting a war on false pretenses which has claimed over 2,000 American lives; maimed tens of thousands soldiers; and, caused the deaths of tens of thousands Iraqis cerainly has lost his humanity as well as his mental abilities.]
GOP4Me
You flatter me. McCarthy was a great American.
GOP4Me
I thought you did tha for emphasis. Are you sure you didn’t? And what kind of REAL American names his pets after Soviet leaders?
GOP4Me
I’d say the same thing about Dana Milbanks. (Apologies to peepeegas, who apparently views Milbanks as the living incarnation of the Second Coming of the Messiah.)
ppGaz
Me.
And you? Do you have a hamster named Kissinger?
Paul L.
Question ppGaz, Does your dog speak/bark when you shout “We will bury you!”.
Were you offended by the german guy who named his dog Adolph and taught it to lift it’s paw when it heard “sig heil”?
Just checking your level of “tolerance”.
Paul L.
Here is a question for the Balloon Juice inmates about your concern for the poor victim Mr. Whittington.
How long will it take you/the press to turn on the poor victim Mr. Whittington if he comes out of the Hospital and criticizes the coverage of the hunting accident.
I suspect the lifespan of Element 116.
StupidityRules
Paul L, Whittington critizising the coverage wouldn’t change anything, why would it? The story isn’t about the concern for Mr Whittington, it’s about the VP shooting someone accidentially and then delaying telling about it and obstructing any chance of actually being able to answer what actually happened.
On the other hand, if Mr Whittington comes out of the hospital and says that the official story is totally bogus, then you’ll see right wing blogs starting to accuse Mr Whittington of being a personal friend of Michael Moore, doctored photos with him and Jane Fonda and so on…
GTinMN
GOP4Me = DougJ
Paul L.
It will make the Press look more foolish and provide republicans with a good laugh as liberals and the press get even more crazy.
HA, HA HA Republican lawyer who hunts with Cheney not agreeing with him.
Wishful thinking?
Of course liberals like you believe Joe Wilson, that Libby was indited for outing a covert agent not perjury, Kerry won Ohio and NBC’s West Wing is true.
StupidityRules
No, once more, the issue is about what the VP did after shooting a man (and maybe also before). For instance, that the local police doesn’t care about the secret service denying them access to the VP doesn’t make it something that shouldn’t be investigated by the press.
Never said it would happen. I said IF he would. It all depends on how loyal he is, what actual damage he has sustained from being shot, if something actually was covered up (like Cheney drinking more than a beer, or Cheney shooting him at 30 feet instead of 30 yards) and if so what Cheney is going to offer him to keep quiet about it.
If Mr Whittington isn’t happy then he probably is going talk. But once more, that’s _highly_ unlikely. But if he would, the right wing blogs would do whatever they could to shred his credibility. But perhaps you know a reason why they wouldn’t do that?