Lots of sports today, including WVU taking on #1 UCONN on CBS in a few hours.
I just watched the 12.5km Pursuit (biathlon), and it was not only the first time I ever thought cross country skiing was exciting, but it was the most thrilling and clearly physically gruelling thing I have seen so far in the Olympics. My lungs were burning as my fat ass lounged on the couch.
Also, Shani Davis made some history, which is sort of fitting considering the month.
*** Update ***
Damn. Mounties fall. Good game, and played them tight.
BumperStickerist
You’ve never watched US skip Pete Fenton draw to the button.
Sure, it’s called ‘curling’ but a better name for it would be ‘Broom-kata’
The US Women Curlers are on tonight at 5:00. They’ve had some rough luck with the stone getting picked but they’re a feisty, gritty rosey cheeked bunch.
.
Mr Furious
John, if UConn hadn’t just lost against ‘Nova, I’d really like your chances today. Back to back losses, especially against teams that will play them similarly is not likely though. I’d look for a pretty close game, with UConn pulling it off in the last few minutes…
Otto Man
I only watch skiing and hockey, so I’m new to this stuff. But judging from the photos on that page, the guy who looks like a jerk is the first white skater. I don’t think I’ve ever seen pouting like that from anyone this side of puberty.
Gold Star for Robot Boy
Paging Mr. Bryant Gumbel. Bryant Gumbel, please come to the white paging phone…
Bruce from Missouri
Damn, John… Ya coulda said “Olympic spoiler” there… I was hoping to watch that event in blissfull ignorance of the result tonight….
That said, I’ve been involved in speedskating for decades now, and I am going to stick up for Shani. He’s a good kid. His mom is kind of a stage mom, and doesn’t help his image. He is a bit standoffish, he’s always gotten some funny looks from being one of only two or three black speedskaters who was competive at a national level in the history of the sport.
He has a lot of resentment towards the national organisation because they did not stand up for him in the 2002 mini-scandal involving him, Apolo Ohno, and Rusty Smith, where Ohno and Smith were accused by another skater of throwing a race to him(in an event where Davis held the national record, go figure) to get him on the Short Track team. He felt that even though the claim was denied, that it was done in a weak-kneed way that left his name tarnished.
It should also be noted that he is far from the only skater to have a problem with how U.S. Speedskating runs things. They’ve been sued multiple times by skaters over the years. It’s not a Winter Olympics without them getting in a pissing match with somebody.
And my own personal observation on this thing with Chad Hedrick, is that he owes Hedrick nothing, that Davis owed it to himself and history to make sure he was at his best for this race. I think the way NBC and some other press is treating him is disgusting. They are trying make him out to be another selfish prima-donna “nigger athlete”. Davis isn’t the only one that skipped the pursuit… I didn’t see Joey Cheek or Casey FitzRandolph there either. And this media treatment of Shani wouldn’t be happening without Hedrick’s pissing and moaning to spur it on.
Hedrick should stick it where the sun don’t shine. He’s a relative newcomer to the sport. He hasn’t heard this whispers behind Shani’s back since he was a small child. He hasn’t paid the dues that Shani has. And this kind of knifing from alleged teammates, is going to do nothing but make him even less trustfull of his fellow skaters.
Stormy70
I am glad he won the gold, and I could care less about his attitude. Same goes for Chad Hedrick. They need to bring home the gold, then leave us alone for another four years. Speed skaters only need to look pretty and win.
As for the showboating chick who lost her gold medal, I am still pissed at her hijinks. She deserves all the crap thrown at her. This is the Olympics, not the celebratory bong-hit run down the mountain. Grow up.
Seth Wescott snowboarding down an avalanche in Alaska? Haute, Hotte, and Hot! And his gold medal race was just awesome. I need to learn to snowboard. I love to ski, but I think I am ready to swooosh down some mountain.
I love ice dancing, and I feel absolutely no shame in it. Although, my husband tends to cringe even further than normal during my ice skating sum-ups. I think he is feeling beat down by them. Better or Worse, babe, better or worse.
Richard Bottoms
Speaking of, seems to me this year’s Black History Month has become as ho-hum as St Patrick’s Day. Which is a good thing.
Didn’t even have my yearly battle of “what’dya have Black Hisotry Month for anyway?”
Congrats to Davis.
ppGaz
Hmm. Proof again that alcohol is dangerous when abused, eh?
First, the girl made a mistake. Who gives a shit? Lots of mistakes are made by Olympians; few of them are held up to scorn and ridicule like this one. Fuck every person who critizes her. Including you, in this case. No offense, of course.
Second, the faux outrage is disgusting. The girl doesn’t owe anyone anything, not a medal, and not an explanation. Nobody who is questioning her exuberance out there could have done her sport and gotten to that event in the first place.
I have seen exactly one sentient comment about this event, and that was from the blog world’s most sentient commenter, Kevin Drum. He said, why have events with kids who are so laid back that they don’t seem to care if they win or not? Now that is a legitimate question, and if I am a tv mogul wondering why my ratings are in the toilet, it’s a very relevant question. I think that the wall to wall coverage, and the loquacious announcers, and the phony jingoism, and the other bullshit, are spoling the games for everybody. I think that the figure skating commentators should be publicly flogged, and then run over with a car. They suck and stink and ruin the event for anyone who has the sound turned on. Which you pretty much have to do, since music is part of the event.
But anyway, the snowboard events: These are not sports that ought to be in the Olympics in the first place. These kids are hard working and all that, but this is not competition among great athletes. This is thill-seeking among attractive and immature kids. The only reason they are there is to fish for tv viewers, and as Drum points out, the experiment has backfired.
Make the snowboard events go away. And somebody PLEASE shoot Bob Costas and slap him after he’s dead for that shitty interview with the girl who fell down. He’s a sick fuck, pretending that a faux event with well dressed hippies was going to be treated by them as serious competition in the first place and daring to stink up NBC’s precious ratings. Fuck Costas, and fuck NBC.
Back to you, Storm.
BumperStickerist
ppgaz,
Yours is an extremely well articulated, completely bull-shit point.
I guess Lindsay figured she ‘caught the people that stole her Visa card’ and could relax, grab ‘air’ and show off on the second to last jump.
Does she owe me, you, the United States anything? No.
That said, I’m absolutely confident in my role as a father of two children to hold up Lindsay as example of poor sportsmanship, bad race strategy, and careless racing.
I’m glad she had fun, that she went through the US trials, her heats, the quarters and semis, and that – gee – she’s ready to ‘move on’ since she’s an athlete.
So, she does her thing – I’ll do my thing. I would note that her ‘thing’ now is to go ahead an win the event. That would seem to belie yours and Mister Drum’s point. Also, it’s likely that future immature snowboard atheletes will learn from Lindsay’s experience and just win the event.
At the momemnt Bode Miller just racked out on the Super-G. So, I guess you could count me out as a ‘Bodeist’, too.
I’m pleased that Bode’s inner kwuan is fully mellowed. And he’s an athelete beyond my comprehension. But – gee – Bode’s in a competition, and in one by choice.
I wish him well as he travels in his RV, trains in the shed with the homebuilt weight rack, all the while cashing checks for wearing Nike footwear. But Bode Miller as a role model or a person who’s opinion on the state of youth in America matters? Ummmmmmm, not so much
Lance Armstrong at least had the temerity to, cough, win, cough, six Tours de France in a row. But better Bode should cast doping aspersions on Lance than, you know, perform.
Lastly, you’re dead wrong about the snowboarding – it’s not thrill-seeking among attractive and immature kids.
Fit and immature, maybe, but they wear helmets with face shields, so the attractiveness of the athlete isn’t part of the competition.
Halfpipe snowboarding is a dynamic, short duration event. And, like other dynamic events – notably, recently, figure skating – youth gets served, whether youth is ready for it or not.
Figure skating used to be more about figures and form, now it’s a Summer Games Floor Exercise on Ice. Check your memory – the current crop of announcers pretty much sucks, but there was no better announcer in sport than Dick Button in his prime calling an Olympic ice skating event.
Cheers.
.
Justin Slotman
C’mon, pp, the X-Olympics aren’t putting the ratings in the hopper. It’s the combination of 1. tape delay and 2. Americans only care about ladies’ figure skating anyway. Personally I thought Jacobellis’ final race was great television (two great crashes, one spectacular goofup, one delirious Swiss celebrating with her American (!) boyfriend) but I appear to be in the minority among my fellow citizens.
And thanks to Bruce for bringing some perspective to the Davis-Hedrick feud.
Justin Slotman
Oh, and if you saw Jacobellis’ face after that race, you could probably tell she cared. Not to mention Tanja Frieden’s fifteen minute victory dance.
ppGaz
Well, you are half right! Which around here, is pretty good. No, I was dead on. The Olympic honchos and the tv greedmeisters knew exactly what they were buying when they hired these glorified skateboarders for the Games. Screw them for acting, now, like they are “disappointed.”
Don’t get me wrong, I like the kids. I just don’t think that they are Olympic-grade material, and I think that the honchos were kidding themselves when they fell for the idea of putting the into the Games.
My view is based on what she said, not on how she looked. She said that she was having a great time, got carried away, and fell. Which I thought was just fine, good for her. I don’t really fault her for doing so. But the phony outrage routine on tv and from the Stormies of the world …. Jesus, what a bunch of crap.
Our local tv station had her fall as the LEAD STORY last night. Can you imagine that? The most important story of the day is that this cute blonde falls down on a snowy slope because she was doing some stunts.
Un-fucking-believable.
John Cole
Personally, I will criticize her right after I win my silver medal in snowboarding. She is a kid, she made a mistake, I am sure no one feels worse than she does, and I don’t think people here recognize the true nature of the snowboarding sub-culture.
You want to use her as a lesson to your kids as to why you never quit? Fine.
But if all you want to do is heap shit on her, I just have to say- grow up, and have some sympathy for once in your life.
ppGaz
Oh no, John and I are basically in agreement, which means sometime in the next day or two, I am going to get waterboarded verbally in order to even things out.
But anyway, John is right … the girl is just a kid. Not a seasoned, serious professional who is going to get things right all the time under huge pressure, like an NFL official or something.
But kid or not, she held her own under the vile interrogation of Bob Costas, who just lost what little of my respect he had left.
J. Michael Neal
Bruce adds some perspective, but I think that his axe becomes pretty apparent when he talks about Cheek and Fitz-Patrick also not skating. That’s true, but it has nothing to do with poor teammates; it has to do with the fact that the pursuit distance is far longer than their sprinter capabilities.
It’s pretty apparent that we have two guys who are poor teammates, don’t like each other, and display that dislike in petty ways. I just got done watching the 1000m, and the post race interviews demonstrated that they both are thinking foremost about each other. As far as I can tell, they’re both jerks, and I’m happy to root for them both to fail to medal in the 1500m.
The Other Steve
Honestly, I don’t think there is that much of a commitment by the USA to even compete in Olympic games any more.
Seriously, before it was a rivalry with Russia. Today, who? Al Qaeda doesn’t compete.
ppGaz
Wait till they get a country with ski slopes, though.
Bruce from Missouri
Having just seen the coverage, I have to congratulate NBC for finally doing right by Shani… But, boy was that ever an uncomfortable post-race interview. I think I could see steam coming out of his ears.
It was good that they also talked about the general dysfunction in U.S. Speedskating, kind of sheds some light on the lack of team cohesiveness, for people not familiar with it. It’s really amazing how strong we are, considering that at any moment in the last 25 years people have been at each other’s throats at the top levels of the sport on a regular basis.
Also, pursuit is a bs event added for god knows what reason. Long track is about skating against the clock, and they add a new event that has no history within the sport and is not based on who has the fastest time? FYI, even though the US did not make it out of the quarters, they were faster than three of the four teams that advanced to the semis. They just got hosed by the draw. The team they lost to won the gold.
In my opinion, that event is totally against the spirit of Long Track Speedskating, and cannot dissapear fast enough.
stickler
Okay, mark the time.
Just saw the Shani race, about a half-hour ago (ca. 11 pm Pacific).
John Cole posted about the results of said race nine hours ago. I knew what would happen long before it was broadcast. (As if the long, NBC maudlin intro wasn’t foreshadowing enough.)
Aside from whatever issues animate discussion about this event, I mean, come on. What the F? Tape delay is killing the thrill of victory, as well as the agony of defeat.
This — among a thousand other reasons — is why NBC is killing the Olympics.
stickler
Oh, Ppgaz, just you wait:
Wait till they get a country with ski slopes, though.
Guess what. They had (and might yet again have) a country which had (and might yet again have) a vibrant ski industry.
Afghanistan.
Ski slopes they’ve got. Ski lifts, well, sort of.
Mac Buckets
Ticket-chick.
Mac Buckets
Six? What are you, a French journalist?
Mac Buckets
I propose a medal ban on any competitor in any sport who says that winning a medal makes them feel “stoked.” It would save the time and effort of a drug test.
Mac Buckets
The biggest problem with being a sports fan in America right now is that there’s no event that the whole country gets behind anymore, except maybe the Tour de Lance (but that’s going away, too). I realize a part of that is because when you expect to win everything, you lose the thrill. I spend a lot of time in England, and they are always pointing en masse to a World Cup, or an Ashes, or the Rugby World Cup…and we’ve got nothing like it, which is a crying shame.
Stormy70
He does listen to The Ticket every day.
PP – She doesn’t owe anyone anything, but she gave her gold away and learned a valuable lesson in the process. I think snowboarding has more of a right to be there than ice dancing. I enjoy watching it, and most of the “kids” competing in it love their sport and seem to have great sportsmanship. I find it refreshing. Hell, they don’t even do figures anymore in FIGURE skating. Tragic.
ChristieS
I’d NEVER heard of Davis before last night as I don’t watch sports. Actually, I don’t think I had heard of ANY of them. My first introduction to him was his wonderful race followed shortly by his petulant interview.
If he didn’t want to talk to whatsherface, then say that before they roll the camera.
t. jasper parnell
The real hero of Lance’s amazing run is George Hincape, and it is a shame that he recieves so little recognition. Indeed, if you are looking for a role model for your kiddies, George is the guy to point them toward. If, on the other hand, you want them to learn from the absolute best, Eddy Merckx is the fellow to follow.
As far as critical comments concerning the showboating snowboarder, whose erstwhile moniker Lucky Lindsay seems now particularly inapt, if we can only criticize those whose acheivements we share, as Mr. Cole suggest, I expect a considerable decline in comments critical of elected officials.
The coverage of Davis was odd, particularly the stuff about his unemotional response to the victory.
ppGaz
No, she just made a mistake and fell down.
Hardly the same thing.
t. jasper parnell
My point about elected officials was badly done; I should have written footbal referees.
Bob In Pacifica
Judging from the response here, I guess that a lot of people share my disinterest with the Winter Olympics. It has nothing to do with the percentages of athletes of color, either.
Athletic contests serve some purpose, I guess, but how does sliding down a hill on a couple of skis relate to my life? Doesn’t. At least I’ve had to run at times in my life, which gives me a little reason to relate to the running sports during the summer olympics.
And all of this olympic “sport” is so unrelated to what normal humans do, even before you get to blood-doping and steroids. The training regimen requires a devotion that the average person cannot afford.
All of this suggests a different, more affluent group of humans, or humans nutured by affluent people, to perform “super humanly.” I know a lot of people celebrate this but it gives me the creeps.
I wrote an essay for my union paper ten or fifteen years ago about how professional sports arose in American history as diversions for the working class. Diversions from what? When the rise of unions happened in the last third of the 19th-Century baseball as an interest for the public. Sports sections appeared in newspapers, eventually replacing labor sections. A similar process occurred with the rise of pro football after WWII. While labor rights won in the thirties were being eroded by Republicans with their Taft-Hartleys and such, football grew.
Think I’ll take a walk along the beach later today.
Mac Buckets
Where’s that “Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc” post when we need it?
t. jasper parnell
Not only PHEPH, but it a denial of agency, by which I meant fed a steady diet of Babe Ruth and Barry Bonds, the working class succumb. It is possible to be interested in sport and labor issues at the same time. Didn’t someone or another once point out the working class was present at their own birth?
ppGaz
Marx.
Either Karl, or Groucho, can’t remember which.
capelza
Class war and sports heroes…ancient Greece. Which I suppose is fitting in a discussion about the Olympics…
Digital Amish
Maybe why there’s subdued interest in the Winter Olympics. What percentage of Americans take part in winter sports? Probably significantly less than Scandinavian folks. Everybody runs. Everybody’s played baseball and basketball. I can relate to the skiing and it makes my sphincter pucker every time I watch the downhillers because I can relate to what it’s like coming down a mountain at less than half that speed.
As far snowboarding. Seems to me the snowboarders have a better grasp of what the Olympics was supposed to be about than a lot of the viewers and commentators. Isn’t part of it supposed to be about the joy of participation? And her not being professional enough? Fuck that, I liked it better when the first thing you did after finishing a run wasn’t getting your ski sponsors brand name on camera, in fact it wasn’t allowed.
Bob In Pacifica
Saying that sports is a diversion isn’t false. It is an organized competition which has no relevance to the viewer other than what emotion the viewer invests in it. John Cole may thump his chest about the Steelers “winning” the Super Bowl and may get a temporary false sense of superiority (“We’re Number One!”) because of emotional attachments he has made to the Pittsburgh Steeler corporation, but that “loyalty” doesn’t affect how much he has to pay for his medical expenses or what his salary is.
So we are not arguing about sports being a diversion, only about from what other concerns sports diverts the general population’s attention. My union got better attendance at meetings when we changed the nights to Wednesdays so that it wouldn’t conflict with Monday Night Football. So in that instant case professional football, which brought no value to a worker’s life other than entertainment through an excitation of emotions built on false loyalties extended to athletes wearing corporate names based on regional identification, trumped going to a meeting and arguing about work rules, management tactics and the quality of the union’s representation, things that affected a person’s life, his income, his health, etc.
The whole “bread and circuses in Rome” meme is pretty much accepted, but that was in another place and another time.
Diversion is diversion, whether it’s a Christian being fed to a lion or a Lion being fed to a Bear.
Until the “end of work” the working class forever exists. People who travel through the jungles in bands and hunt lizards and gather berries are working class. Working class is the standard mode of human existence. It’s hard to argue that there is no value in sports for some group of people when the state supports an otherwise worthless diversion by building stadia with hundreds of millions in taxes instead of investing the money in things that can more readily make the lives of all citizens better. I am saying that the value is in diverting the working class’s attention from issues that are important to them.
Mac Bucket’s is the same kind of illogic thrown up as when someone suggests that powerful people with resources may in fact conspire to do immoral and criminal acts. You know, the anti- “conspiracy theory” know-nothings. In other words, Mac is riding down the “it can’t happen here” trail, ignoring the scenery from his exalted place on his elephant.
t. jasper parnell
E.P. Thompson
Bob In Pacifica
No, I’m Bob in Pacifica, parnell. I hope you weren’t just red-baiting there.
Maybe you’re too busy watching TV to share your knowledge with us, though. Diverted, so to speak.
t. jasper parnell
Arguing that the “real” interest of whatever group you like “ought” to be something other than what they are assumes that the group fails to understand its “real” needs, which strikes me as false somehow or another.
The bread and circus “meme,” whatever meme might mean, is considerable more complicated than distraction. As has been pointed out, by Brunt for example, the Roman “mob” wanted bread. Octavian’s decision to give it them with greater regularity can be read as fulfilling, as opposed to distracting from, their “real” desires. The games had along tradition of serving as entertainment and advertisment for the person giving them, they did not arise out of disire on Octavian’s part to distract the mob. True he did limit who could take credit for them; but, I am not sure how this relates. You would need to develop what it was that the mob was being distracted from, wouldn’t you?
Related, some how or another, might be the fact that other advanced industrial nations the “working classes” have managed to engage in vigorous atheletic partisanship and political activity.
t. jasper parnell
E.P. Thompson said that the working class was present at its own birth. His point, or so I took it, was that to argue that the development of working class culture was a “distraction” or foisted on it, is too deny to the wc agency.
hypocycloid
how many times did the announcers liken the cross-country action to NASCAR? …”the Swiss love to trade paint, Bob…” My NASCAR anaylogy count includes snowboarding (cross version), bobsleding, and i honestly recall a reference to curling as well…
Go Stillers, Go Mounties… 2005-06 the greatest football year of my life
t. jasper parnell
One last point, I am not sure how disagreement qualifies as any sort of baiting.
In other words, Mr. Cole may find some emotional fulfillment from the big game, but clearly it does not serve to distract him from matters political. You might insist that he is wrong, to which I say: reasonable people can disagree.
To assert, however, that his disagreement arises from successful diversion or, perhaps, false consciousness is, I would argue, is an unfortunate manner of argumentation.
Laura
Exactly. I love what the snowboarders have brought to the Olympics. Their enthusiasm and exhuberance is refreshing. Instead of acting like elite athletes (which they are), they seem like my friends who live in Tahoe (except they’re younger, richer, and better at their sport). I get a kick out of them, and I’d bet they’re enjoying the whole “Olympic experience” more than most athletes. What I really respect is that they’re simply being themselves. Shani’s at the other end with his intensity, but he too, is following his own path. I like that. Just as there’s not just one “appropriate” way to behave at a funeral, the same is true for the Olympics.
Sherard
Wow. I guess most people must have lost sight of the “sports” theme of this post. Yikes.
You guys have a hell of an offensive club there at WVU. You’ll go far in the tournament. There aren’t many teams that can take advantage on the interior like UConn can. Texas, maybe. Everyone else out there is going to have trouble with WVU. Nova, maybe, because of the similarity.
My huskies are taking it all the way again this year. No shame in losing to a juggernaut.
Paul Wartenberg
Is it just me, or is NBC obsessed with curling?
It’s the only Olympic sport I’m seeing on any of the channels. There IS ice fishing at some point, right?
Bob In Pacifica
parnell says: “Arguing that the “real” interest of whatever group you like “ought” to be something other than what they are assumes that the group fails to understand its “real” needs, which strikes me as false somehow or another.”
What is more important, parnell, health care or how the Steelers finished? What is more important, the war in Iraq and the reasons why we are there or whether the S.F. Giants have a decent fifth starter? I think that it is clearly more important for people to be concerned about their health rather than Barry Bond’s knee; their personal economies and what forces impinge on them rather than how much the Jets are under the cap for next year. You can argue that it’s presumptuous of me to say so, but your harrumphing won’t win the argument.
John Cole does enjoy his sports and his politics, but what does that prove? That Cole is the embodiment of working people? Hardly.
By the way, you might want to read Michael Parenti’s recent book about the assassination of Julius Caesar. Not only does it go into the Roman politics of the time, but it also nicely explains how our lessons of history, written up by the patricians, are presented to the rest of us as civics lessons where virtue is ladled onto to wealthy and powerful. It might just lead you to question some of what you presume.
Now, do professional sports distract the working class from those issues which are more important to their lives and the lives of their loved ones? Yes.
ppGaz
Would somebody please shoot Dick Button? He makes my wife cry. He is a negative, vile little person who trash talks half of the figure skaters in the Games.
Who made this guy the godlike final arbiter of everything subjective in Olympic figure skating? I can see the performances and the scores, do I really need this little prick telling me that somebody’s choreography didn’t “do it” for him? Please make him STFU … forever.
I want him with a pie in his face. I want his family with a pie in their faces. I want his house pied to the ground. I want him to be remembered as a pie.
Apologies to Al Capone.
Big E
well… for the hockey challenged:
If the Finns play the Russians for the gold medal….
watch it, it will be the best hockey you’ll see for a while.
Laura
Heiden is now more understanding of Shani’s decision. From my local paper:
Hopefully, Heiden’s comments will get some national attention. Shani deserves it after all that was said about him.
BumperSTickerist
A – the skirt was ‘poofy’. You know which skirt I’m talking about.
B – Dick Button this guy – from about.com
If you want to watch ice skating, there’s Ice Capades.
Or ‘Skating with the Stars’
.
The two great things about the Winter Olympics are Curling and Dick Button.
Justin Slotman
Bob, I don’t think your arguments are without merit, but they don’t really apply to the Olympics, which were conceived of as an elitist affair and have never completely gotten away from those origins. Especially the Winter games, most of which require at least a middle class background to get involved in (those skis are expensive. I have no idea how much a curling rock costs.) I can tell you that the most important Olympics-related topic on Philly sports radio (home of the “real” Philly fans–the ones whose lives revolve around Flyers/Eagles/Sixers/Phillies and nothing else, at least in the realm of sports) is whether or not Peter Forsberg reinjures his groin at the Games, and is thus unable to play for the Flyers when he comes back.
t. jasper parnell
Mr. BiP,
You ask:
“What is more important, parnell, health care or how the Steelers finished? What is more important, the war in Iraq and the reasons why we are there or whether the S.F. Giants have a decent fifth starter? I think that it is clearly more important for people to be concerned about their health rather than Barry Bond’s knee; their personal economies and what forces impinge on them rather than how much the Jets are under the cap for next year. You can argue that it’s presumptuous of me to say so, but your harrumphing won’t win the argument.”
It may be that these matters are more important and I may agree with you. This does nothing, however, to show that an enjoying sport precludes or distracts from worrying about the important issues. In other words, your asserting that concern about things athletic forestalls concern about things political is not an argument based on evidence it is a shrill assertion and insulting to those (conservative, liberal, progressive, and radical) who enjoy sport and worry about “real” issues. Caring about how the Steelers finished and how to fix the national health care crisis are not mutually exlusive.
Just as an aside, on what basis is the laundry list you provide “more” important? Is it your claim that private happiness, satisfaction, aesthetics and the like rank lower on some immutable scale of values? If so, where can I find this immutable scale?
You then say:
“John Cole does enjoy his sports and his politics, but what does that prove? That Cole is the embodiment of working people? Hardly.”
On your definition of working class any activity designed to keep one alive means that one is a part of the working class. Mr. Cole works. It seems as though you think that there are block of “real” issues that confront the working class and from which, to borrow a phrase, they are amusing themselves to death. If this is so, how does Mr. Cole escape? Or are the working class only those whose behavior, amusing themselves to death and all, you find to be evidence of distraction? You specifically instanced Mr. Cole as one who is “distracted.” And yet he clearly is not. In this case, your argument collapses.
“By the way, you might want to read Michael Parenti’s recent book about the assassination of Julius Caesar. Not only does it go into the Roman politics of the time, but it also nicely explains how our lessons of history, written up by the patricians, are presented to the rest of us as civics lessons where virtue is ladled onto to wealthy and powerful. It might just lead you to question some of what you presume.”
Although I have not read Parenti, I have read quite a few historians of ancient Rome and ancient Roman historians, like Tacitus. I can say this, without reservation, you are being incomprehensible. Tacitus wrote for the Patrician/Senatorial “class” and his texts are replete with their biases and invective. Indeed, as has been pointed out ad naseum, most of the ancient Roman historians wrote for the Senatorial class. Why it is even possible that Nero far from fiddling while Rome burned, was a hero to the common man. According to some, Suetonius’ representation of Tiberius is a near perfect case of using Greaco-Roman anti-tyrannt invect to “spin” an otherwise fine reign into a sample of sexual perversion and rampant dishonesty. Patrician/Senatorial resistance to the populist reforms of the Grachii brothers shows, I would argue, how the old elites’ narrow economic interests, under the quise of a desire to defend Roman tradition, precluded necessary reforms, land tenure and others. Not to argue, I hasten to add, that the Grachii did not do damage to the constitution or that the conservatives did not mean to protect Rome from a monarchy of course. But economic self-interest played a role and reform was the only way out of he deadend into which Rome had wandered. In other words, just because I disagree with you have do not assume that I do not know what I am writing about.
Furthermore, it was Tacitus who insisted that Augustan Rome was kept fat and happy because of the policy of “bread and circuses.” It was you and not I who repeated this (ancient) conservative talking point. So I ask, Mr. BiP: How is it, exactly, that I ought to rethink my understanding of the limited utility of the “bread and circus meme,” again whatever a meme might be, when it is your understanding of its polemical use in the ancient literary sources that is deficient?
“Now, do professional sports distract the working class from those issues which are more important to their lives and the lives of their loved ones? Yes”
My reply to this bit of nonesense is that neither is assertion evidence nor conviction proof. It is, I claim, possible to care about sport and politics. I make this claim not because I “feel” it to be true,or because of some specious argument about causation. I make it based on reason and experience.
And yes, Dick Buttons in a cad.
Mac Buckets
My illogic? As ironic as that is, I’ll leave it at this: The burden of proof is on the conspiracy theorists to prove that concurrent events have a causal relationship, and you clearly haven’t met the weakest definition of proof.
You won’t even clearly say what you are implying from the shadows. Tell us, are you suggesting that someone intentially infected the unsuspecting public with baseball to distract them from the rise of union activities? Who, exactly? And Republican operatives gave us pro football (another reason to vote GOP!) so union workers wouldn’t notice the weakening of the Unions after Taft-Hartley? So baseball emerged as a distraction to the success of unions and football as a distraction to their failure — of course, it’s all so obvious now!)? And where do the WWE and NASCAR fit in? Let me guess, wrestling took off in response to Reagan’s firing the air traffic controllers, and NASCAR emerged as a real force in the wake of Clinton killing the American Airlines strike of 1997.
ppGaz
Button was a great skater.
He is an asshole of a commentator.
Condi Rice would be more fun to listen to.
ppGaz
Now, Button’s other brother, Red, he’s a funny and warm hearted guy.
Let him call the ice skating.
Dick Button is to ice skating what a math teacher is to music.
DougJ
Family? I don’t think he’s the marrying type if you know what I mean.
DougJ
I’ve been just trying to stay out of the way, but can we drop the whole math/music debate. It is possibly my least favorite topic in the whole world (I come from a family of mathematicians, most of whom other than me are also very good musicians).
ppGaz
Least favorite topic?
I thought it was this
scs
Hmmmm. What does Lines study? What was my theory on what DougJ studied? Sorry – couldn’t resist.