More grim news from Iraq:
The police reported finding 87 bodies today scattered around the city, as the wave of reprisal killings in the wake of Sunday’s attack on Shiite civilians appeared to gain steam.
Inside the Command The victims, all male, were shot or strangled after being bound and blindfolded. Many of the bodies were found in Sadr City, the Shiite-controlled area where Sunday’s bombings took place. The Interior Ministry also reported finding 29 bodies buried in the city’s western regions and 15 bodies were found in a minibus on a road heading out of the city, according to the Iraqi Interior Ministry.
The wave of killings began with a graphic display of street violence on Monday, in which Shiite vigilantes seized four men suspected of terrorist attacks, interrogated them, beat them, killed them and left their bodies dangling from lampposts, witnesses and government officials said. The sense of growing lawlessness deepened Monday night with a mortar strike against a well-known Sunni mosque in Baghdad, killing three people.
This gets any worse, it is going to be as bad as East Philadelphia (/inappropriate snark).
In all seriousness, something odd has happened the past few weeks with me not reading blogs and relying on the MSM for my news. One of the things I have discovered is that both sides of the blogosphere have far more passionate perceptions of Iraq than does the general public. If I were to rely on the MSM for news on Iraq, I certainly wouldn’t hear many positive stories (as there simply are not many), but at the same time, the coverage I have seen, outside of the intense scrutiny, is not as bad as the right wing of the blogosphere would have you believe.
In other words, from what I have seen the past month, the media seems to be playing it pretty straight- if you relied solely on CNN and MSNBC and Fox, your perception of Iraq would be one of “gee- it sure seems like a mess,” but the coverage does not appear to be focusing only on the bad- it is just the bad (like, for example, 87 dead in one day) is much more newsworthy.
The overall perception, though, would be the absence of news at all. Just watching CNN a while ago, I saw a 5 minute piece on a website called Don’t Date Him Girl (dedicated to cheating men), 5 minutes of weather, and then, almost as a casual aside, a report about a Marine death and 87 dead in Iraq. Were you to ask me about the state of Iraq today, given that I have not been paying attention for the past few weeks, my answer would be “Doesn’t seem very good,” but it would be difficult for me to elaborate. Such is the modern media.
RonB
You better be careful John, you get any more reality based than this and you’ll lose the stellar crowd of righties you have here(snicker). Excellent observation, one I have been waiting for a big fish blogger to make.
carpeicthus
Really good point, John. More than any sort of bias, television news in particular has a huge bias toward giving no useful information whatsoever.
demimondian
Actually, it’s kind of interesting. The “87 dead in one day” reading is not actually supported by the stories in the papers: the stories themselves say that 87 bodies have been found in one day; some of those have actually been dead for quite a while.
That said, the problem here is that there really isn’t much good news coming out of Iraq because…well, because the core news is very bad. Iraq is teetering on the brink of a full-blown civil war if it hasn’t already descended into one, and there’s not a lot one can say beyond that.
jg
Exactly. They want you to ‘believe’ the media is liberal. Thats how cults work. If there is a media outlet not broadcasting thier message they want you to avoid it and they do it by making you believe the outlet is dangerous. Is it a coincidence that military types and religious people are drawn to the republican party? Both groups are made up of the type that looks to be lead by a single voice, one message, unquestioned authority. And they believe in an ‘us versus them’ world.
Now that your eyes have opened a bit maybe you’ll notice that whenever trapped they scream religious persecution or that those in opposition hate the military. It diffuses the issue and brings out the base bearing torches.
This is not to say the republican party is illegitimate. Its just currently being run by people who see the path to pwer by playing to the cultist inside all of us.
Wedge issues and fear.
The Other Steve
There was an interesting article yesterday…
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11813983/
Basically it said, US deaths are down in 2005 versus 2004, but the number of incidents with IEDs doubled. The lower deaths is attributed to increased armor. But it was also noted that the more armor they bring in, the more powerful the IEDs become. The insurgents can change tactics faster than we can bring in technology.
I was watching a History channel show last night on Vietnam. (Apparently now that all the WWII vets are dying, we need to move to the 24 hour Vietnam war channel) There was a military historian quoted as saying that one lesson from Vietnam is that attrition works both ways. While you’re trying to wear out your enemy, you are also wearing out your own. It’s a lesson he said wasn’t very well understood in Vietnam and we still haven’t learned.
You are right, that the news isn’t as pointed as the blogosphere makes it. But it’s not great either. It’s The Suck. It just drags on and on and on. The reality is, without major gains, people grow tired. There’s no amount of cheerleading you can do to change that.
General Odom had a commentary come out last week(can’t find it now) on comparisons between Vietnam and Iraq. He described Vietnam in three stages.
The first stage was strategic, how we entered it in an attempt to check Soviet and Chinese power. The second stage was where things went wrong, because we lost strategic focus and started thinking only in terms of tactical.
That is, rather than…. What is our actual goal? What are we trying to accomplish?
It became an argument about how things were going day to day. It was purely tactical.
In his comparison, he said that same pattern and mistake is being made today. The Iraq discussion is purely tactical, rather than strategic. He then went on to talk about the strategic fallout from Vietnam, as we continued to get sucked in we actually played right into the hands of the Soviets. He equated the situation in Iraq similarly, but noted that the strategic fallout from Iraq is likely to be far worse than what happened with Vietnam.
I’ll find that article later, it’s really worth reading.
scarshapedstar
Mass graves? My goodness! Time to invade!
SeesThroughIt
So very true. It’s kind of sad to see–right-wingers, confronted with inconvenient facts, simply chant, “liberla media bias” and think that makes the bad news go away. Because as we all know, the best way to deal with a problem is to pretend it doesn’t exist.
Actually, Stephen Colbert, in a rare not-in-character interview, said it as plainly as it can be said:
“Authoritarian means there’s only one authority, and that authority has got to be the President, has got to be the government, and has got to be his allies. What the right-wing in the United States tries to do is undermine the press. They call the press “liberal,” they call the press “biased,” not necessarily because it is or because they have problems with the facts of the left—or even because of the bias for the left, because it’s hard not to be biased in some way, everyone is always going to enter their editorial opinion—but because a press that has validity is a press that has authority. And as soon as there’s any authority to what the press says, you question the authority of the government—it’s like the existence of another authority.”
ppGaz
This body-count, event-specific news and information is useless. Anecdotal tales of “good things” and “bad things” are always available.
The core questions are the ones that matter: Can Iraq govern itself? Is our presence there making that harder, or easier? Or would it matter if that presence were there or not …. does it simply delay the inevitable?
What control do we have over events at this point? Can we maintain order? What will be happening there six or twelve months from now if we stay? If we begin to withdraw?
You’ll notice that your government is not interested in exposing these questions to public discourse, but instead wants to feed us a steady diet of happy talk and Bushisms. If we ignore the bullshit, they will say that we are being “influenced” by a MSM that almost nobody in the country actually pays direct attention to.
Enough is enough. This government will not and cannot be straight with us, offer us informed choices, and allow the people to govern through this war. The people will have no choice but to throw out this government and try something else.
All this talk about media and stories and polls is mostly churn and mostly useless.
jg
Is this what the sixties felt like? I was born in 71 so I have no first hand knowledge myself. Kind of seems like it though. If it is then can someone point me to the hippie chicks giving away the free love? And when will the music improve? So far the only anti-war music I can find is Green Day, which is good, American Idiot and Holiday rock but I need more. Where’s my generations CCR or Arlo Guthrie?
ppGaz
No. We have much better food now.
And much more information that isn’t controlled by the lying sumbitches in government.
And about a thousand times more access to that information, quickly and easily, 24 hours a day.
Davebo
87 dead in one day?
Impossible! Ralph Peters would have mentioned it. And he was there you know, looking at all the good news.
Davebo
True. Unfortunately it’s just as possible that there were 870 killed and we’ve only found 87 bodies so far.
ppGaz
According to properly-done mainstream polling, 83 percent of Americans now think that Iraq is in a civil war or soon will be.
Why are we wasting time talking about how long the 87 people have been dead?
This topic is dead, that’s what matters. The battle for perception, in this country, is long over.
Time to move on.
The Other Steve
Yeah, that’s what I said in my long thread… where I mentioned Odom.
But take it up a step further. We have to be thinking strategically, not tactically. It doesn’t matter whether or not Iraq can govern itself. The question is more, do we care?
The Other Steve
The American Civil War had about 5 years of border skirmishes before it went into all out warfare.
Anyway, frankly I think Saudi Arabia is also right now in the midst of a low intensity civil war. I’m talking about the attacks they’ve been having on oil facilities, etc.
The Pirate
At least in Philadelphia we have running water and paved roads, WV-boy.
searp
I had a discussion with a newspaper editor almost 3 years ago. He asked what we should do about Iraq. I said pull out now. He was horrified, and went into the we-broke-it-we-own-it schtick. I told him: the right question is what we think we can accomplish by staying for, pick it, another six months, year, five years, etc. If we don’t have a good, concrete, executable answer to that question, then we should leave now.
Fast forward to now, ask yourself the same question.
GOP4Me
Is that what West Virginians call Camden, NJ nowadays? ;)
What if the liberal media bias creates the unpleasant facts in the first place? What if the insurgents are trying to wear us down through their lapdogs in the US media and left-wing activist loon-pool, chief among them being Michael Moore and Cindy Sheehan? What if the insurgents deliberately step up their awfulness just to weaken our will, knowing full well that the liberal US media will go along? I think historians will blame this needless bloodshed on the liberal media far more than they will blame it on Bush. Everything went well in Iraq until the media stepped in and ruined it.
Unfortunately, you may be right. This war was winnable, just like Vietnam was at one point; but after three years of unrelenting assault by the liberal media, America’s will to fight is finally showing signs of wavering. The American media has won this war, and America has lost it, as was also the case in Vietnam.
This defeat will place us in an untenable position in the GWOT, but I guess it’s more important for you kooks to score political points against the GOP in the November elections than it is to actually worry about the new Iraqi AQ gov’t launching another 9/11-style attack against the US 5 years from now. By then, Bush will be gone, but the Democratic legacy of failure and pettiness will remain.
The Other Steve
It’s funny, but I think this comes from the socialist style paternalism, that is that the State can do more for you than you can do yourself.
When we kicked the British out, our nation didn’t fall into anarchy. We got together, we talked about what we wanted to do. We wrote a constitution.
I find it puzzling that we don’t think the Iraqis aren’t capable of doingt he same, considering this is a region that is in the record books as having the first written law.
SeesThroughIt
C’mon, man. Step up your DougJ game.
GOP4Me
History will not record the deeds of DougJ. Thanks for dodging the argument, though. You know it’s true, and this is the best retort you can come up with. Sad, really.
Blue Neponset
You and your Righty buddies whine about how broken and biased the media is for decades and then blame them for ruining your policies. I guess media bias is one more painfully obvious thing Bush and Co. didn’t plan for regarding the War in Iraq. I suppose that isn’t his fault either.
GOP4Me
No, I don’t think you can blame Bush for the media being liberal. If anything is his fault in that regard, it’s his underestimation of the media’s willingness to play possum in the face of overwhelming American successes in 2003 and 2004, only to rear its ugly serpent head in 2005 and strike our troops in the ankles as they patrolled on by over its prostrate pseudo-corpse.
But Bush is not God, nor is he a thought-policeman. I don’t think you can blame him for the media not liking him, the onus for that sorta falls on the media themselves. Typical moonbattism to blame it on him, though. And if he’d tried to do something about it, and change their minds, you’d be calling him a Fascist or a propogandist.
You just can’t win arguments with some people. Especially if you’re a Republican.
p.lukasiak
This war was winnable, just like Vietnam was at one point; but after three years of unrelenting assault by the liberal media, America’s will to fight is finally showing signs of wavering. The American media has won this war, and America has lost it, as was also the case in Vietnam.
you go to war with the media you have, not the media you wish you had.
Blue Neponset
You sly dog. There is no defense to the “call him a moonbat” technique.
I have to give you credit. You caught me redhanded. Holding people responsible for the consequences of their actions is one of my favorite things to talk about when I drink lattes with my elitist, socialist buddies.
If you hadn’t checkmated me by calling me a moonbat I was going to say something like this:
I am not blaming Bush for the media’s obvious liberalism. I am blaming Bush for his resonse to the liberal media. The liberal media has been undermining the Conservative agenda for a good long time and Bush should have known this. I can’t understand how you can absolve him of ignoring the expected reaction of the media.
I suppose I should be thankful that you let me off easy and called me a moonbat in response to my first comment.
neil
A very interesting perspective. I find that this is a constant gripe on the liberal blogs about media misdeeds — that nothing can get them to focus on what’s going on in Iraq, I suppose because it doesn’t get good enough ratings. All this focus on happy-talk and mindless non-news is a major benefit to the status-quo, you must recognize.
jg
The war was winnable, and it was won. Its easy when no one’s putting up resistance. Its winning the peace thats hard. Can’t do that when you didn’t plan to, when you thought the peace would just happen all by itself.
The situation in Iraq is turning out exactly as people from both sides of the aisle said it would all the way back to 91. There was a reason Bush 1 gave for leaving Saddam in place, it wasn’t because he didn’t like flowers and candy. The media is not the reason that a vaccuum collapsed in on itself.
We knocked over Saddam, surrounded the oil ministry and…..watched as freedom bloomed. How is it the fault of the media that the people in Iraq acted exactly like people living in a lawless land act?
Why the fuck am I even trying to reply to GOP4ME?
Steve
Hooray, GOP4Me is back, the wingnut’s wingnut. Still having a difficult time grasping reality, are we?
Tell me, have you seen the reports that British envoys, by June 2003, were already reporting to their superiors that the US postwar effort was “an unbelievable mess”?
What’s your theory here? That the British envoys on the ground in Baghdad were getting their news about Iraq from the New York Times?
I do think this war was winnable. I’m a big fan of America, our military is clearly second to none, I tend to think we could accomplish about anything if we did it right. Why, I even think the combined forces of the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines would be sufficient to capture Osama bin Laden, the mass murderer responsible for 9/11 – that is, if the administration cared enough to make it a priority.
This war was winnable, sure. But not by Bush and Rumsfeld. Their inability to perceive reality and adjust to it was simply fatal. History will judge the civilian planners of this war exceedingly poorly.
capelza
We went and got married :P
The one positive (besides the free love) is that things like Kent State and the Dem convention of ’68 haven’t happened yet. People aren’t being assassinated left and right.
And there is no draft yet. You see a draft and those anti-war songs will be all over the place. Though I do have to say, I have never forgiven Jerry Rubin for being the poser he was.
Captain Comeback
Considering that the modern nation of Iraq was literally drawn up by oil companies 60 odd years ago (similar to how the Soviet Union purposely drew up the Central Asian nations like Uzbekistan to create constant chaos and a lack of cohesiveness), maybe each Muslim sect needs to go its own way and establish their nation as best as they can. I wish they could all get along, but it doesn’t appear to be that easy.
jg
That there would be the reason Saddam invaded Iran and Kuwait. He didn’t recognize the borders that were drawn and as far as he was concerned there was no Iran or Kuwait. Baghdad was the capital of the previous caliphate which encompassed all arab lands, not just the capital of Iraq. As the man in charge of Baghdad all that land was his too. In his head.
For a neo-con it is that easy. Its all a matter of how hard you press the gun against their heads. Press hard enough and they will get along.
ppGaz
You respond to the troll you have, not to the troll you wish you had.
MMM
Remind me…..
I saw the film “shadow company” today at sxsw…….you will be surprised at how much we agree….
John Redworth
I always find it a bit funny when I keep hearing about this liberal media whenever a story doesn’t go the way some want to frame it… I am not denying that there is liberal bias in the media but I think it is a lot less than what some continue to make it out to be… it is a scapegoat for the right side and one that doesn’t seem to float much since I keep hearing that FNC is beating everyone…
The Other Steve
At last, GOP4ME and I finally agree on something.
trotsky
Um, is GOP4Me snarking or not? I can’t tell anymore.
GOP4Me
I believe I already said upthread that his underestimation of liberal media’s tenacity and willingness to ambush him like a snake in the grass was Bush’s one major failure in this entire war. So we agree, I think. It’s weird.
The peace was winnable, too, and was being won until the liberal media emboldened the insurgents by blaring news of our defeat nightly into Americana.
There was never a vacuum, that’s a media distortion of events on the ground in Iraq. Everything I’ve heard from almost everyone who’s been there is that things on the ground in Iraq were going just fine, until the insurgency went into high gear once they realized the liberal US media would over-report any violence they committed and portray it as a nation in chaos rather than the actions of a few last-standing dead-enders with too many guns and bombs.
So now it’s Bush’s fault that some rabble engaged in 2 days of looting? Is Bush responsible for the fall of every leaf and the death of every insect in Iraq? Does Bush make the sun shine and the wheat grow, and if he fails to do so can we impeach him? Geez, you’d think the obvious blame for this one lay with the people of Iraq, who were drunk on freedom and eager for revenge against the regime that had oppressed them for 25 years. That’s the way I see it, which I think is substantially more “reality-based” than blaming Bush for what lurks in the hearts and minds of his fellow Americans and the Iraqis he liberated.
GOP4Me
Yes, I’m sorry that it doesn’t seem to have gotten any easier for you.
Sure, accept THEIR statements uncritically, just because they reflect badly on Bush. Those people were money-hungry power barons, and you know it. Everything in Iraq was going just fine, but they wanted more money and power for their departments and projects. Some of them didn’t like the structure and hierarchy evolving in Iraq, so they pretended there wasn’t one. Ignoring away reality, a trademark of the “reality based community.”
Consider the source. Disgruntled former imperialists castigating the evolving power structure of those bringing freedom to Iraq. Freedom, it must be noted, the British never brought during any of their 150 years as the global superpower. Jealousy clouds perception. Just ask your wife what she thinks of your ex-girlfriend’s looks, and you’ll see what I mean. Even if your ex-girlfriend is Beyonce, she’ll still find something to criticize.
Patience, dear liberal. Patience. The net is tightening in Pakistan. Be patient. First we have to win in Iraq, THEN we can go after the dead-enders hiding in caves in the Hindu Kush. They’re hardly threatening us with their training bases and communication lines destroyed. Bin Laden’s already in a form of prison, if you will. He can’t move, and he can’t communicate. And for all we know, he’s been dead since December 2001. I’d never trust an AQ video that purports to show otherwise.
The war certainly wasn’t winnable by your darlings, the British. Without our help they’d still be slogging through Basra and Saddam would be laughing at them. But I’ll give the Brits credit for at least recognizing the threat, and joining the coalition of the willing to act upon it. Unlike your superheroes, the French and the Germans, whose plan for dealing with Saddam was to wait 30 years for the inevitable visit of the Grim Reaper.
History will judge the civilian critics of this war very harshly, for their endless griping and protesting is what weakened America’s resolve to win the GWOT. If we’re all speaking Arabic 35 years from now, you’ll have Michael Moore and Cindy Sheehan to thank for it. Oh, and President Billary.
ppGaz
Take heart …. neiher can he.
GOP4Me
F-ck you, pee-pee. The grown-ups are trying to have a discussion, here.
chopper
Consider the source. Disgruntled former imperialists castigating the evolving power structure of those bringing freedom to Iraq.
ah, the ‘disgruntled former employee’ defense. good show.
Jealousy clouds perception. Just ask your wife what she thinks of your ex-girlfriend’s looks, and you’ll see what I mean. Even if your ex-girlfriend is Beyonce, she’ll still find something to criticize.
that is the silliest analogy i’ve yet seen about this war.
Patience, dear liberal. Patience. The net is tightening in Pakistan. Be patient.
it’s been 4 1/2 years since 9/11. ‘the net has been tightening’ for that long. i know that catching the mastermind behind the murder of 3000 americans isn’t a priority to you or the politicians you support, but it is to some of the rest of us.
First we have to win in Iraq, THEN we can go after the dead-enders hiding in caves in the Hindu Kush.
yeah, because saddam with his complete lack of WMDs was a much bigger threat than the dude who actually attacked us.
And for all we know, he’s been dead since December 2001. I’d never trust an AQ video that purports to show otherwise.
so the videos where the dude is talking about events in the war in iraq, the madrid bombing etc, that proves what, that he was psychic? so now we’re dealing with a dead dude who could predict the future? are you on goofballs or something?
Unlike your superheroes, the French and the Germans, whose plan for dealing with Saddam was to wait 30 years for the inevitable visit of the Grim Reaper.
ah yes, the ‘i disagree with you thus my enemies must be your best pals’ defense. you just need to toss in the ‘chewbacca defense’ and you’ll hit the trifecta. kudos!
History will judge the civilian critics of this war very harshly, for their endless griping and protesting is what weakened America’s resolve to win the GWOT.
hey, if you want to insult our brave fighting men and women by implying that they can’t do their jobs properly unless some liberals somewhere are clapping loudly enough, be my guest. i personally feel that history will judge the people who planned and executed the war as the people responsible for its outcome, as common sense dictates it is with pretty much every war, rather than some people who saw the facts on the ground for what they are and reacted accordingly.
GOP4Me
The British were never our employees, and it’s a truth. It’s not a defense. Truth is its own defense, not that you lying moonbat kooks would understand a thing like that.
Well, yeah, you’ve got me there. It is pretty silly. But I was trying to explain something, and it’s early in the morning here, so bear with me.
Yet you patiently waited all through Clinton’s term, and the only reward for your patience was 9/11. How do you explain the discrepancy?
Saddam and his supporters (including Hezbollah) have killed far more Americans than OBL and AQ, an adjunct branch of Saddam’s plans, accomplished alone. But don’t let a small thing like truth get in your way, you’re on a roll here.
No, I just think the film is doctored and that’s not really Osama. Maybe, anyway, as I said we don’t know but it wouldn’t surprise me if he’s been dead for quite some time now. My guess is as good as yours, and yours is as bad as mine. Will you at least concede the possibility?
If liberals don’t like the French and Germans so much, why is it that their model of American government and foreign policy is such a perfect mirror? Nevermind, it’s more important to attack me than to acknowledge that I was correct on this point. Truth will come out in the end, but first we must all be subjected to smokescreens and flimflammery.
Our troops are doing just fine, but liberal politicians at home will eventually see to it that they leave Iraq before the job is done. Liberal politicians will get away with this because liberal media will delude the American people into thinking that things aren’t going well over there, while simultaneously emboldening an insurgency in its last throes to make sure that there are lots more evil acts and dastardly deeds to maike it seem like things really AREN’T going well over there, even though they are. That’s my point.
chopper
Yet you patiently waited all through Clinton’s term, and the only reward for your patience was 9/11. How do you explain the discrepancy?
wow, do i know you? or do you just assume my behaviour during the clinton years? cause i distinctly remember cheering clinton on when he tried to go after bin laden, and booed the goopers for claiming he was merely ‘wagging the dog’. i wanted clinton to go further, and it pissed me off a lot that he didn’t.
got any more blatantly incorrect assumptions about me?
Saddam and his supporters (including Hezbollah) have killed far more Americans than OBL and AQ, an adjunct branch of Saddam’s plans, accomplished alone.
oh, this is great. first off, hezbollah was not a supporter of saddam. hezbollah is an iran-based religious terrorist organization. needless to say they didn’t like a secular iraqi leader.
second, while i love how since you righties have had to eat sh1t over the whole ‘saddam and AQ were in cohoots’ thing, so now you’re trying to keep them associated indirectly, it doesn’t fly. AQ is not an ‘adjunct branch’ of hussein’s plan to stay dictator of iraq at all costs.
But don’t let a small thing like truth get in your way, you’re on a roll here.
god, the irony is delicious. tell me some more of the ‘truth’ about how hezbollah supported hussein.
No, I just think the film is doctored and that’s not really Osama.
it’s the queers. they’re in it with the aliens. they’re building landing strips for gay martians.
Will you at least concede the possibility?
sure. its also possible that he’s a venusian sent down to give us earthlings a really great recipe for tangy chocolate pudding.
If liberals don’t like the French and Germans so much, why is it that their model of American government and foreign policy is such a perfect mirror?
so now it’s either ‘best friends’ or ‘don’t like.’ ever heard of ‘indifferent’? every liberal i’ve met couldn’t give a fsck about the french foreign policy in most cases.
Nevermind, it’s more important to attack me than to acknowledge that I was correct on this point.
acknowledge that you’re high on goofballs is more like it.
Our troops are doing just fine, but liberal politicians at home will eventually see to it that they leave Iraq before the job is done.
well, i understand that you’d rather see thousands more dead and crippled soldiers. that makes sense.
Liberal politicians will get away with this because liberal media will delude the American people into thinking that things aren’t going well over there, while simultaneously emboldening an insurgency in its last throes to make sure that there are lots more evil acts and dastardly deeds to maike it seem like things really AREN’T going well over there, even though they are. That’s my point.
you’re just a full-bore loony, aren’t you?
GOP4Me
I wasn’t referring to you PERSONALLY, I was referring to you as a REPRESENTATIVE OF THE LOONY LEFT THAT GAVE CLINTON A PASS ON GOING AFTER AQ! Please note the distinction.
Hezbollah is allied with AQ. AQ was allied with Saddam. The friend of my friend is my friend, just as the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
History will exonerate us, and I care a lot more about the opinion of history than about yours.
I don’t really know what you’re talking about, but it sounds like a great idea for a movie of some kind. Sequel to Brokeback Mountain/JFK/Back to the Future, maybe? Call your agent and run it by him, he’d probably be interested.
You have a bright future in the homosexual pornographic film screenplay-writing industry, but please leave the rest of us out of the loop.
Every liberal I’ve ever met spoke either French or German and was obsessed with their cultures. Are we arguing anecdotes, now? The whole liberal system is based on the French system of socialized medicine, overunionized workforces, peace without honor, and heavy inflation. Just admit it. It’s okay to be honest about it, you know. I won’t judge you any more harshly than I already have.
There wouldn’t be so many as there have been already if your kooky media friends stopped encouraging the insurgents. The insurgency would’ve petered out sometime in November 2003 without the vital support of the American press.
Coming from you, that’s a compliment.
SeesThroughIt
Actually, you’ve already been proven wrong on just about everything. Which is why you never, ever prove anything you say. You just say it vehemently and figure that’s enough.
But at least your DougJing has picked up a little bit. You just need to learn economy of words–DougJ did so much with so little, and you’re only starting to do a little with so much.
GOP4Me
Whatever, Peesthroughit. Whatever.
chopper
I wasn’t referring to you PERSONALLY, I was referring to you as a REPRESENTATIVE OF THE LOONY LEFT THAT GAVE CLINTON A PASS ON GOING AFTER AQ! Please note the distinction.
here’s a lesson in semantics: when you’re debating someone, and you say “you did this,” it means you’re accusing them personally of doing it. if you use the term “you guys” or “you liberals” then you are accusing a group.
Hezbollah is allied with AQ. AQ was allied with Saddam.
oh god, you actually still are pushing the discredited “AQ and saddam were allies” talking point. holy sh1t, i thought that went the way of the dodo and “smoking is good for you.”
History will exonerate us, and I care a lot more about the opinion of history than about yours.
yeah, history has sure proven you guys right about the WMDs. (snicker)
I don’t really know what you’re talking about, but it sounds like a great idea for a movie of some kind. Sequel to Brokeback Mountain/JFK/Back to the Future, maybe? Call your agent and run it by him, he’d probably be interested.
yeah, i’ll call it ‘GOP4ME’s gay sex romp with the illuminati.” every ticket will come with a free roll of tinfoil to keep out the CIA mindbeams.
You have a bright future in the homosexual pornographic film screenplay-writing industry, but please leave the rest of us out of the loop.
but you’re the star!
Every liberal I’ve ever met spoke either French or German and was obsessed with their cultures. Are we arguing anecdotes, now?
not yours, they suck.
The whole liberal system is based on the French system of socialized medicine, overunionized workforces, peace without honor, and heavy inflation. Just admit it. It’s okay to be honest about it, you know. I won’t judge you any more harshly than I already have.
yes, you definitely are a full-bore loony. i mean, trolling a blog is pathetic enough. but my god, man.
The insurgency would’ve petered out sometime in November 2003 without the vital support of the American press.
yeah, those insurgents get their drive to kill from watching CNN. which is funny, cause most people in iraq don’t have functioning power. i guess their teevees run on magic powers. maybe if us liberals clapped hard enough, we could shut the electricity down completely and the insurgency would just up and stop.
all in all, DougJ is much better. more to the point, and much funnier.
GOP4Me
So, to summarize your post: you are correct about everything, and everyone who disagrees with you is wrong. DougJ is behind everything, and everyone who disagrees with you is either DougJ or a pale DougJ imitation. Riiight. Got it.
I see there’s little point in debating this with you further, copper. Good luck in all future endeavours in the gay sex industry, and do try to refrain from adult political discussion in future.
ppGaz
Then you should shut up and let them have it.
Grown ups don’t start every post with a crude rendition of their adversary’s handle. What are you, a freshman in high school?
SeesThroughIt
Game, set, and match for me.
chopper
nope, just you. not because you disagree with me, but because you’re an idiot.
well, you are a pale imitation of DougJ, that’s for sure.
i won’t get very far without my biggest star! seriously, i’m writing the screenplay with you in mind. why else would you go by such an obviously gay screen name as “GoopOnMe”?
jg
George is such a great leader that if it wasn’t for the liberal media he’d be running the planet by now.
Does anyone else think all this ‘liberal media is the problem’ sounds a lot like ‘the dog ate my homework’?
Has the group in power that calls themselves republican done anything wrong that wasn’t actually someone else’s fault? Do they take responsibility for anything?
RonB
You know what, GOP4Me? I like you. Youre not like the other people, here in the trailer park.
Thanks, Chopper, just make me miss my copy of Beelzebubba even more.
SeesThroughIt
Hahaha! That’s great, RonB. Evidently, you too have grave concerns about what the queers are doing to the soil.
RonB
Yeah, I got a pamphlet in the mail from Pueblo.
chopper
apparently GOP4Me failed to keep *his head* inside ‘the mixer’ at all times.
RonB
Some of the neighbors think GOP4Me smokes crack, but I don’t believe it.
McNulty
Just for the record, there is no neighborhood known as “East Philadelphia”.
There’s a Northeast Philadelphia, but considering that it exists solely as a place for cops and firefighters to live since they’re required by law to live in the city, it’s probably the safest neighborhood other than Center city.
West, North, or Southwest (my old neighborhood) would’ve been better (and probably accurate) examples to use.