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John is incommunicado and I have work and beer blogging keeping me busy, so the inmates will have to run the asylum for a while. Some interesting links to tide you over:

  • Saturn has a moon 500 kilometers across that somehow manages to sport water geysers, and possibly life as well.
  • A new shark species discovered in Mexico. If you’re wondering what was that unnamed critter that gnawed your ankle, it might have been Mustelus hacat.
  • The nominee to replace Gale Norton, Idaho Gov. Kirk Kempthorne at Secretary of the Interior hasa 1% voting score from the League of Conservation Voters. Call it a net gain for the environment.
  • Sunnis not happy that we’re talking to Iran.

    • Add your scoops in the comments.

    Reader Interactions

    172Comments

    1. 1.

      The Other Steve

      Article over at msnbc, basically stating that most democrats don’t want to talk censure because it’s a distraction.

      http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11866980/

      The Republicans, on the other hand are over playing their hand. Talk of censure and impeachment isn’t a good thing for them, and I think it’s in part what’s behind the recent downfall in the polls. That is, the more we talk about impeachment, the more the word ‘incompetent’ comes to refer to Bush.

      I just find it rather baffling to see Republicans cheering on Feingold. It shows just how out of touch they really are.

    2. 2.

      Paddy O'Shea

      I kind of agree. I think the proper role for Democrats at this golden moment in the national pageant is to stand on the sidelines and throw rotten fruit and vegetables. Why stand in the way of the GOP’s worst debacle in decades?

      If we win the Congress and Senate there will be plenty of time to put these dirtbags on trial.

    3. 3.

      srv

      Heh, via Tom Tomorrow:

      Instapundit rubbed our noses in it

      Yeah, there has been a lot of pro-war gloating. And I guess that Dawn Olsen’s cautionary advice about gloating is appropriate. So maybe we shouldn’t rub in just how wrong, and morally corrupt the antiwar case was. Maybe we should rise above the temptation to point out that claims of a “quagmire” were wrong — again! — how efforts at moral equivalence were obscenely wrong — again! — how the antiwar folks are still, far too often, trying to move the goalposts rather than admit their error — again — and how an awful lot of the very same people who spoke lugubriously about “civilian casualties” now seem almost disappointed that there weren’t more — again — and how many people who spoke darkly about the Arab Street and citizens rising up against American “liberators” were proven wrong — again — as the liberators were seen as just that by the people they were liberating. And I suppose we shouldn’t stress so much that the antiwar folks were really just defending the interests of French oil companies and Russian arms-deal creditors. It’s probably a bad idea to keep rubbing that point in over and over again.

      Nah.
      posted at 04:36 PM by Glenn Reynolds

      You can email him at [email protected]

    4. 4.

      VidaLoca

      don’t want to talk censure because it’s a distraction.

      …from what, all their other important messages? WTF?
      Never missing an opporunity to miss an opportunity…

    6. 6.

      Pb

      Here’s my news–the Bush administration’s Michelle Malkin strategy for the mid-term elections:

      China is refusing to take back an estimated 39,000 citizens who have been denied immigration to the United States and have clogged detention centers at federal expense, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said yesterday.
      […]
      Chertoff’s remarks comes as the Homeland Security Department aims to end its “catch and release” immigration policy by Oct. 1. After that date, all illegal immigrants will be held in U.S. detention centers until they can be returned to their nation of citizenry.
      […]
      Though some lawmakers have called on Chertoff to resign, or said he should be fired, the White House has repeatedly maintained its support for him.

      That is, of course, in addition to their many other plans for the mid-term election, including the “cut-and-run from Iraq” plan, and the “trumped-up war with Iran” plan.

    7. 7.

      ppGaz

      Right there with ya, Pb.

      One thing is for sure … the lying incompetant weasels have a plan, and that plan will be aimed at solidifying their base. That is one thing we can absolutely take to the bank as we enter the election season.

      Every policy, every move, every utterance will be held up to that light. Does this move our base, does it get our voter to the polls?

      If yes, do it. Period.

      That’s the reality of the next six months. We better be prepared for it.

    8. 8.

      ppGaz

      I agree, though. It is a distraction. Once the votes are counted on any proposed measure, it’s time to move on.

      Doing otherwise focusses on the process and not on the actual issue. The story we want to tell is not about Feingold and the censure, it’s about Bush and the fact that he and his cronies have driven our country into a deep ditch and instead of calling for a tow truck, all they want to do now is keep spinning the wheels and throwing up dirt.

      It’s the Clusterfuck, stupid.

    9. 9.

      ppGaz

      A POTEMKIN OPERATION?….Via Atrios, Christopher Allbritton says that Operation Swarmer, the recent air assault on Samarra, is a “Potemkin operation”:

      According to a colleague of mine from Time who traveled up there today on a U.S. embassy-sponsored trip, there are no insurgents, no fighting and 17 of the 41 prisoners taken have already been released after just one day. The “number of weapons caches” equals six, which isn’t unusual when you travel around Iraq. They’re literally everywhere.

      ….About 1,500 troops were involved, 700 American and 800 Iraqi. But get this: in the area they’re scouring there are only about 1,500 residents. According to my colleague and other reporters who were there, not a single shot has been fired.

      “Operation Swarmer” is really a media show. It was designed to show off the new Iraqi Army — although there was no enemy for them to fight.

      This is a pretty serious charge. I wonder what Time’s “official” coverage of Operation Swarmer will have to say about this?

      —Kevin Drum

      Drum is the best, my personal favorite and usually the most level-headed political blogger on the planet.

    10. 10.

      Pb

      ppGaz,

      Yep, I was thinking the same thing last night, when I was looking at the official Pentagon footage running on the news… Beautiful looking propaganda, by the way…

    11. 11.

      dith

      Politricks is the ritualized killing of love. It is the law of the jungle disguised in the jungle of their laws.

    12. 12.

      LITBMueller

      Here is another crazy to be kept in check: Tony Zirkle:

      “If I am elected to Congress, I will introduce a declaration of war against human traffickers, porn-pimps and child rapists,” Zirkle said in a campaign release. “We must put fear back into the criminals who are preying on our children.”

      The first stage of the battle, as proposed by Zirkle, calls for suspension of the constitutional protections of property rights for “porn-pimps.”

      “Every adultery (sic) book store will be immediately seized and the property will be forfeited to the taxpayers without any process of law other than a hearing within 10 days of seizure to give the porn-pimps the opportunity (to) challenge the sufficiency of prostitution evidence.”

      Stage 2, Zirkle said, would involve “actual arrests” for those who did not learn from Stage 1. Stage 3, if necessary, calls for “super speedy public trials with severe punishment that is swiftly carried out after a rapid appeal.”

      Which leads to Stage 4. “If this stage is necessary, then I am willing to debate the idea of returning the guillotine and lynch mob for those who prey on children under the age of 12; however, no capital punishment will be extended without at least four witnesses.”

      Source

      Well, at least he allows four witnesses!!! Is there any better term than American Taliban for this kind of extremism?

    13. 13.

      scs

      Just a little anecdote for you all on a slow weekend on liberal hypocrisy. Speaking of the environment, did you know it is legal in many states to pump out poisonous fumes in your neighborhood? Even up to the point where it may kill someone? To explain, I have a mechanic behind my house who is there because he is grandfathered into the zoning laws, so we can’t kick him out. And on occasion, maybe twice a day for 20 minutes, he pumps out some fumes. These fumes smell like natural gas and makes you sick to your stomach and makes you lightheaded and feel like you’re about to pass out. Luckily I don’t notice it that often because I’m hardly in my yard enough to catch it. But when I have, I’ve called the EPD on them several times and they go over and look at the shop but they can’t figure out what it is. My guess is it is either the engine cleaners they use or some kind of diesel fuel, which I heard has the same additives as natural gas – something called something like merceptin. Basically, all the EPD guys did was tell the mechanics to call them next time they emit fumes so that they can go over there and check it out. (Yeah, right, like the mechanics are going to do that.)

      Anyway, even if we figured it out, the EPD has no power to regulate what they do. They can only leave them nasty notes. Only certain substances are regulated by state rules anyway, and the amount of those materials allowed are usually over 100 tons of gas per year – basically enough to regulate the largest industrial companies, and no less. For instance, a mechanic might emit 1 or 2 tons of gas a year instead. So there is no legal recourse in the law for anyone poisoning his neighbors with poisonous gasses that are legal. You can’t call the police on them because even if you pass out, it would be hard to show your passing out was caused by your neighbors poison gas, especially if it dissipated by the time the cops got there. Maybe if you DIED, for example, and had an autopsy, then your neighbor may be held criminally responsible, but I’m not even sure about that, because there is no law in the books against using allowed substances that emit fumes. Perhaps your relatives could sue the fume releaser after your death for wrongful death in civil court, but that is about your only hope. I guess if you want to murder someone legally, pump out some legal poisonous fumes into their yard.

      Anyway, where I live (and I’m not telling you where) is supposed to be a very liberal, environmentally conscious town. For instance, they just made it illegal to smoke in all the bars and restaurants. Ironic that poisonous deadly fumes not from cigarettes are still okay. So, I called and left a message with the editor of the small, local weekly liberal rag around here. He is constantly running articles about getting more greenspace and stopping pollution and recyling, and outlawing smoking in bars, and how the authorities-that-be and Republicans don’t care about the little people, and I told him about my story and asked if he would bring some attention to this issue. He didn’t call me back. So then I emailed him several times about it, and finally he emailed me a very short cold message back, saying something like “well it looked like you put a lot of work into it” like my emails were bugging him, and basically blew me off.

      So, that is a liberal hypocrisy for you right there. This supposed big-time liberal guy rails against pollution and the powers, and wants us to bike everywhere, but when he really has a chance to do something real, and change legislation where he lives, and not for me but for the other people and kids in the neighborhood, uhh, suddenly he’s too busy to get involved. Figures.

    14. 14.

      Pb

      He is constantly running articles about getting more greenspace and stopping pollution and recyling, and outlawing smoking in bars, and how the authorities-that-be and Republicans don’t care about the little people, and I told him about my story

      Maybe he couldn’t handle your sparkling personality…

    15. 15.

      scs

      Maybe he couldn’t handle your sparkling personality…

      First of all, I never spoke the guy in person, so I hardly doubt he could know enough about me to not like me. Second of all, even if he didn’t like me, it’s not a personality contest, it’s about protecting the public. I’m sure he knows that I am not the only one who lives near there, for instance there are little kids who live next door and play out in the yard constantly, so they are going to be affected more than I will. He should be smart enough to hone in on the important issues. Nah, he didn’t want to offend the small businesses around here that advertise in his paper probably. It’s fine when it’s a theoretical national issue, just not when it might effect him economically. It’s reverse liberal nimbyism – but in this case it’s “not in my back pocket”.

    16. 16.

      Pb

      First of all, I never spoke the guy in person, so I hardly doubt he could know enough about me to not like me.

      LOL!

    17. 17.

      Pooh

      [Extended sob story about SCS getting high off of diesel fumes deleted]

      So, that is a liberal hypocrisy for you right there.

      As PB points out, maybe you ain’t ass convincing as you think you are. Around here, your logical powers are without peer, but in the NFL that is the Real World, they play at a slightly higher level.

      Or maybe Doug J is the editor of your local paper.

    18. 18.

      scs

      LOL!

      Okay funny guy. And I never blogged with him either, okay? I left him a nice polite and factual messages – no peronality involved there. Just business.

    19. 19.

      scs

      As PB points out, maybe you ain’t ass convincing as you think you are.

      Yo my ass is convincing mofo! Seriously, I could be an odious retard with an IQ of 70, it shouldn’t matter. (Please feel free to insert your snark here) Are liberals supposed to be for the least amongst us anyway? If the issue deserves attention, it deserves attention. And again, it is not really about me. There are other people and kids who live nearby. Kids will be the most effected.

    20. 20.

      SeesThroughIt

      In lighter news, the sure to be truly awesome film masterpiece Snakes on a Plane now has a trailer. It delivers exactly what the title promises. And there is absolutely no way I am missing this movie.

    21. 21.

      srv

      Well, I missed the “let mechanics pollute” parade last week, so I can’t give you status on that. But perhaps if you got several of your neighbors to complain about it, took some videos, and got a lawyer, you might be able to make him identify exactly what he is doing. Probably burning oil.

      I’ve known some people who take dirt samples from questionable activities and get them analyzed. I doubt it’s easy, but you could google for atmospheric sampling test labs. Probably pretty expensive.

      It doesn’t sound like you live in a liberal state if the regulations are as lax as you say they are. Most counties and cities leave it up to state regulation. You really expect most towns to have their own evironmental regulatory authority?

    22. 22.

      srv

      In lighter news, the sure to be truly awesome film masterpiece Snakes on a Plane now has a trailer. It delivers exactly what the title promises. And there is absolutely no way I am missing this movie.

      That has got to be the most ridiculous thing I’ve seen this year. What was Samuel thinking?

    23. 23.

      capelza

      Yo my ass is convincing mofo!

      Oh, oh, oh…scs speaks jive….

      I just got back from the doctor, I have bronchial pneumonia..and I just burst a lung laughing at this. If you don’t hear from me again, know I died laughing…

    24. 24.

      scs

      I doubt it’s easy, but you could google for atmospheric sampling test labs. Probably pretty expensive.

      I know, I looked into all of that. I called the univesity organic chem department, spoke to some professors. They didn’t care/ said it was too difficult/ too expensive. I called my local reps, they didn’t care. Emailed my (also liberal) mayor, she didn’t care, but at least she said she would look into it and ask the EPD. I tried to convince the locals to draft some laws about toxic fumes but they said they wouldn’t know how to draft such technical legislation and that they would ask the EPD to help draft it. But then I called the EPD on updates and they basically said they couldn’t draft it because they don’t draft local laws. It’s a mess.

      The only good news is that they want to put in some large plant around here that will emit lots of toxic fumes that will effect a lot of people here and give them cancer and still prob fall under the state limits. That’s good news because I finally saw some interest in drafting local laws against fumes, which would be used to ward off this new plant. Finally there may be some action in this front. But it took a lot of people being effected for anyone to care.

    25. 25.

      Ancient Purple

      Anyway, where I live (and I’m not telling you where) is supposed to be a very liberal, environmentally conscious town. For instance, they just made it illegal to smoke in all the bars and restaurants.

      Since when are smoking bans a liberal vs. conservative thing?

      Here are just a few of those liberal havens that have smoking bans in restaurants, bars or both:

      Anchorage, AK
      Mesa, AZ
      State of Idaho
      Ft. Wayne, IN
      State of Maine
      Helena, MT
      Bozeman, MT
      Minot, ND
      Fargo, ND
      Bismark, ND
      Columbus, OH
      Odessa, TX
      State of Utah

      And, it looks like if the initiative drive to get a smoking ban state wide in Arizona hits the ballot, it will pass easily.

      Arizona – Liberal Haven.

    26. 26.

      Pb

      Hmm… I wonder if there could be some sort of environmental contaminant out there that might cause authoritarian submission and aggression, and conventionalism (that is, RWA), or maybe just SDO. This would be self-perpetuating, because the authorities sanction the contamination, and the affected population couldn’t care less…

    27. 27.

      scs

      Since when are smoking bans a liberal vs. conservative thing?

      Trust me, it’s liberal here.

    28. 28.

      Pb

      scs,

      It sounds like you are in desperate need of a free-market solution, like… ah… buying a lobbyist…

    29. 29.

      scs

      Anchorage, AK
      Mesa, AZ
      State of Idaho
      Ft. Wayne, IN
      State of Maine

      Helena, MT
      Bozeman, MT
      Minot, ND
      Fargo, ND
      Bismark, ND
      Columbus, OH
      Odessa, TX
      State of Utah

      Actually looking at that list, most are liberal places(not all). Many are college and or tourist towns

    31. 31.

      scs

      scs, ..It sounds like you are in desperate need of a free-market solution, like… ah… buying a lobbyist…

      Yeah. See Tom Delay had his good side.

    32. 32.

      scs

      Heh. The liberal state of Utah. Good one

      Come on now- I said “Not all”. However Utah does have some tourist areas, such as the ski resort towns, ie Park City, and the other natural parks areas.

    33. 33.

      Pooh

      Anchorage, Alaska…liberal oasis. That’s a good one.

      I’ll give you maybe Maine and Columbus, OH, but other than that…

    35. 35.

      srv

      I wonder if there could be some sort of environmental contaminant out there that might cause authoritarian submission and aggression, and conventionalism

      You obviously haven’t been reading the chemtrail sites.

    36. 36.

      scs

      I heard Anchorage, Alaska was the artsy town in Alaska, as compared to Juneau – no? Relatively good tourist scene there. Please correct me if I got them mixed up.

    37. 37.

      scs

      Helena, MT
      Bozeman, MT
      Ft. Wayne, IN

      Aren’t these college towns? Isn’t Mesa, AZ near Flagstaff, another college town? Anyway, I’m just guessing. I might look it up later. I don’t want someone jumping in here holding me to it and saying “YOU”RE ALWAYS WRONG” if I’m nmistaken.

    38. 38.

      Steve

      Anchorage is, uh, the only real city in Alaska, period. It’s hard to find a truly “conservative” urban area over a certain size, though.

    39. 39.

      capelza

      scs Says:

      I heard Anchorage, Alaska was the artsy town in Alaska, as compared to Juneau – no? Relatively good tourist scene there. Please correct me if I got them mixed up.

      Anchorage and artsy have never even in the same room, let alone the same sentence. Juneau maybe, but you might be thinking of Sitka or Ketchikan…

      The sick thing is that Ak used to pride itself on its rugged individualism, libertarian live and let live…cry for my beloved state…

    41. 41.

      jg

      Isn’t Mesa, AZ near Flagstaff, another college town?

      Oddly there are two Mesa’s in AZ and no the one with the smoking ban is nowhere near Flagstaff and Flagstaff ain’t liberal, neither is Tempe or any other city in AZ.

    42. 42.

      scs

      Flagstaff ain’t liberal,

      Flagstaff has a definite liberal slant. I know this because I was there, and saw a lots of artsy/hippie types meandering around there.

    43. 43.

      SeesThroughIt

      That has got to be the most ridiculous thing I’ve seen this year. What was Samuel thinking?

      Seriously, he didn’t even read the script. He saw the title and immediately signed on. And wouldn’t you? I know I would. I can’t fucking wait for this thing to hit theaters.

    44. 44.

      Pooh

      Capelza, you’re from AK too? (Parenthetically, is scs T. Obermeyer in disguise?)

      scs, what possible cause of action could you have here? The editor didn’t publish your letter and therefore…help us out…

    45. 45.

      Pooh

      Flagstaff has a definite liberal slant. I know this because I was there, and saw a lots of artsy/hippie types meandering around there.

      Because as well know, the plural of ‘anectdote’ is ‘data’. I saw several car accidents today, therefore nobody here can drive worth a crap (wait, that one’s actually true…)

    46. 46.

      jg

      Flagstaff has a definite liberal slant. I know this because I was there, and saw a lots of artsy/hippie types meandering around there.

      So? That means the town votes liberal? There are tons of hippies laying around on Mill Ave in Tempe but that doesn’t mean liberal measures pass in Tempe?

    47. 47.

      scs

      Well Pooh, what is your definition of a “liberal” town? It’s a somewhat subjective term, is it not ? Besides it’s a large college, ski, and tourist town. Three def liberal markers right there.

    48. 48.

      capelza

      Pooh..I’m not a native, but it is my adopted home, I have lived there off and on for almost 30 years…I am sadly stuck in Oregon for the moment, can’t pry my husband out of here with a crowbar. But I still escape back to western Alaska whenever I can..Kodiak and Bristol Bay, though I have fantasies of living in False Pass. My last job was tendering in Bristol Bay…absolute heaven.

      You from there or live there now? Lucky man.

    50. 50.

      Ancient Purple

      Come on now- I said “Not all”. However Utah does have some tourist areas, such as the ski resort towns, ie Park City, and the other natural parks areas.

      Right. Because the way to preserve the “liberal” ski resorts, you ban smoking in Deseret, Utah.

      Odessa, TX is not liberal. Neither is Mesa, AZ, nor Anchorage, nor Bismark, ND, nor Utah, nor Helena, MT, etc.

    51. 51.

      Pooh

      Well Pooh, what is your definition of a “liberal” town?

      Counting dreadlocks is as good a measure as any, I guess.

      Skiing is a liberal passtime now? I didn’t get that memo.

      And touristy you say! Those damn libruls who run Mt. Rushmore…

    52. 52.

      scs

      scs, what possible cause of action could you have here?

      Well there is a catch-all law called something like “Quiet Enjoyment of Premises”. I could try to get him under that. Probably this spring, when I have time, I’m going to sue his ass.

    53. 53.

      capelza

      scs..only liberals ski? Only liberals are tourists? (I’m sure Orlando is bemused).

      No wonder you righties are so cranky..hit the slopes!
      Besides, judging from your earlier definition of liberal,

      artsy/hippie types meandering around

      the disconnect is enormous..what hippie can afford a ski pass?

    54. 54.

      scs

      Odessa, TX is not liberal. Neither is Mesa, AZ, nor Anchorage, nor Bismark, ND, nor Utah, nor Helena, MT, etc.

      I have a feeling most of those towns have large colleges there. Mesa does for instance- it’s smack next to Tempe. Anchorage def does too- Univ. of Alaska. Utah has liberal areas mixed with health conscious Mormon areas- so that one’s mixed. I will google it later for you’all. Bismark , ND is NOT, and I know this authoritatively through the ” above mentioned “dreadlock test”, because we drove through it and I saw a LOT of mullets scattered around the fast food joints on the strip.

    55. 55.

      scs

      what hippie can afford a ski pass

      Damn, did you ever go to college? The hippie types were some of the richest ones.

    56. 56.

      Ancient Purple

      Besides it’s a large college, ski, and tourist town. Three def liberal markers right there.

      Where are you getting this stuff, scs? Honestly… where are you getting this?

    57. 57.

      capelza

      Proud graduate of Oregon State University,(aka Oregon Straight) dearie…and the main campus of Uof A is in Fairbanks. Seeing as half of the residents of Alaska live IN ANCHORAGE, and as it is a hugely red state, you’re reaching here.

    58. 58.

      scs

      Honestly… where are you getting this?

      I looked it up in the Encyclopedia of Liberal Towns, where else?

    59. 59.

      capelza

      Ancient Purple Says:

      Besides it’s a large college, ski, and tourist town. Three def liberal markers right there.

      Where are you getting this stuff, scs? Honestly… where are you getting this?

      10 bucks says a Michael Barone article I once tore apart elsewhere…

    60. 60.

      Ancient Purple

      Mesa does for instance- it’s smack next to Tempe. Anchorage def does too- Univ. of Alaska.

      Mesa is overwhelmingly Mormon and is NOT liberal. Scottsdale, AZ is also next to Tempe, as is Phoenix, Gilbert, Chandler, and Apache Junction. Those are NOT liberal areas.

      Your claim that if it has a college in it or next to it, then it is liberal.

      Tell me, scs. Since when is Tulsa, OK a liberal oasis? It’s the home of Oral Roberts University, so it must be party central.

    61. 61.

      scs

      Proud graduate of Oregon State University

      I knew that already. Heard much talk about the NW university thing before. Oh wait, no that wasn’t you, that was someone else. Never mind.

    63. 63.

      scs

      Your claim that if it has a college in it or next to it, then it is liberal.

      I would posit that most large college towns are statistically more liberal than most other American cities of the same size. Should we take a demographical countrywide survey to check this? You start it and let me know how it’s going.

    65. 65.

      scs

      10 bucks says a Michael Barone article I once tore apart elsewhere

      You are so obvious NW Phd.

    71. 71.

      Pooh

      No action from me, ppG. A strong, strong whiff of troll-dung in these here comments. Maybe scs really is Doug J. Or maybe it’s Tom Maguire getting his Just One Minute of revenge. Just because I’m paranoid doesn’t mean they aren’t out to get me…

    72. 72.

      scs

      Why is it so hard to believe I’m me? Righties happen you know.

      By the way, I just saw Steve show up here amongst the DougJ suspects above. Now if HE is a DougJ clone, then I’ll REALLY lose it.

    74. 74.

      ppGaz

      Mesa, AZ sends Matt Salmon to Congress

      If you can get any more mainstream GOP-righty than Matt Salmon, I don’t know how.

      “Matt did his missionary work in Taiwan and has a real love of the Chinese people,” said Lamar Slight, Director for International and Government Affairs for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. “But what I see in Matt is a belief that people of all faiths have the right to worship as they wish. He acts in defending the rights of people everywhere.”

    75. 75.

      scs

      Okay thanks ppgaz- I notice age groups are largest from 24-54, mostly white homeowners. I didn’t see the average income. I’m guessing probably a yuppie town where the college grads move to.

    77. 77.

      ppGaz

      All in all, I would say that Matt Salmon is a decent guy and probably a decent congressman, as tighty-righties go.

      However, I think Ancient Purple or maybe another commenter here lives in his district and could give more insight.

    78. 78.

      Pooh

      Why is it so hard to believe I’m me? Righties happen you know.

      I agree, righties happen. (Don Rumsfeld even said so.)

      But you are sui generis

    79. 79.

      scs

      I would say that Matt Salmon is a decent guy and probably a decent congressman, as tighty-righties go.

      You mean there’s actually one good one? Wow.

    81. 81.

      ppGaz

      I’d say Mesa is more middle-of-the road middle class, than yuppie. The upward mobile consumers tend more toward South Tempe, Chandler, Gilbert, and Ahwatukee.

      Ahwatukee

      The core of Mesa, the older part, is a place that you could transplant into almost anywhere in the Midwest and it would look right at home there. The newer parts are all subdivisions and shopping centers and AMC 20-screen multiplexes.

      We used to rely heavily on “winter visitor” trade here (the snowbirds, as we called them) and the snowbirds would nest in Mesa in large numbers. But I think now as the primary county here, Maricopa, is the third largest county population in the country, the economy is much more diverse.

      Yes, we are the third most populous county in the United States. I think LA and Cook (IL) are the larger county populations.

    82. 82.

      ppGaz

      You mean there’s actually one good one? Wow.

      Yes, of course.

      There are a number of good ones. Unfortunately, their party is held hostage right now.

    84. 84.

      Ancient Purple

      I would posit that most large college towns are statistically more liberal than most other American cities of the same size. Should we take a demographical countrywide survey to check this? You start it and let me know how it’s going.

      Sorry, but I am addressing your screwy notions regarding suburban Phoenix. You made the claim that because Mesa was next to Tempe, it must be leaning left because Tempe is a liberal town due to ASU.

      Tempe is not a liberal town by any stretch. I should know since I attended ASU and my nephew currently attends. We could only hope it was as liberal as you believe it is.

      Mesa is home of the largest Mormon temple in Arizona. The city is overwhelmingly Mormon and very conservative.

      Scottsdale is heavily conservative Republican and also borders Tempe, but you conveniently dismiss that fact, as you dismissed the Oral Roberts University in Tulsa item.

      You originally claimed that my list of locales that had smoking bans was dominated by liberals. It wasn’t and you are sadly ignorant of the facts.

      Again.

    85. 85.

      Ancient Purple

      However, I think Ancient Purple or maybe another commenter here lives in his district and could give more insight.

      Alas, I live in Shaddeg’s district. Salmon is not a bad guy.

      J.D. Hayworth, on the other hand….

    86. 86.

      Perry Como

      By the way, I just saw Steve show up here amongst the DougJ suspects above. Now if HE is a DougJ clone, then I’ll REALLY lose it.

      He is. This thread is 90% DougJ.

    88. 88.

      ppGaz

      J.D. Hayworth, on the other hand….

      Ugh.

      I still think of him as a bombastic sportscaster.

      Which he has in common with Rush Limbaugh, IANM.

    89. 89.

      Steve

      What is the obsession with college towns? Are there any major cities in America without a college? Does that really make them all “college towns”?

    90. 90.

      Remfin

      What is the obsession with college towns? Are there any major cities in America without a college? Does that really make them all “college towns”?

      Just a shorthand way to declare something “liberal”. It of course makes no sense, as did so many of the other claims. Like “tourist towns”, hint: tourists don’t vote, and every smoking ban is ending up on a ballot at some point, either in response to councilman making it themselves, or the citizens pushing for it. For that matter, college kids don’t vote either as a practical matter, and some of them couldn’t anyway because they are still registered wherever their parents live. On top of which colleges, while usually attached to certain cities, many times legally belong to another city. I’m pretty sure for instance at OSU that some/most of the student dorms/housing belongs to a suburb, and people registered there wouldn’t vote in Columbus anyway

    92. 92.

      Pooh

      Yeah I must be a rightie, cause I don’t use a lot of Latin.

      Nope, just saying you are one of a kind, take it how you will…

    100. 100.

      Ancient Purple

      It’s time to kiss the 4th Amendment goodbye.

      On Countdown, Olbermann read from a US News and World Report press release regarding an article appearing tomorrow evening on their website. The press release stated:

      “Soon after the September 11, 2001 terror attacks, lawyers in the White House and the Justice Department argued that the same legal authority that allowed warrentless electronic surveillance inside the US, could also be used to justify physical searches of terror suspects homes & businesses without court approval.”

      So, if the King and his flunkies think you are a terror suspect, you don’t get 4th Amendment protection. Period. No warrant necessary. Please assume the position.

      Oh, but it goes further:

      According to two current and former government officals . . . the Bush administration lawyers presented the arguments to senior FBI officals who expressed strong reservations about their proposal. . . . It could not be determined whether any warrentless physical searches had been carried out under the legal authority cited by the administration, but at least one defense attorney representing a terrorism suspect has alleged that his law office and home may have been searched without a court warrant.”

      Would President Bush and his jack booted toadies like Abu Gonzales really order an attorney’s office searched without a warrant as well?

      You bet your ass he would.

      See the video exchange between Olbermann and Turley regarding the death of the 4th Amendment here.

    101. 101.

      The Other Steve

      MSNBC is reporting that Iraq war will likely cost $1 trillion.

      Is it legal to seize fortunes in the United States by people who royally fucked up and cost us $1 trillion?

      I’m thinking Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney… oh and hell people like Andrew Sullivan while we’re at it. I figure $100 for every time they repeated the words “bush hater”.

    103. 103.

      Ancient Purple

      Do we even need the 4th amendment any more?

      I mean, isn’t the Bill of Rights a rather quaint document which isn’t applicable in todays modern world?

      Warrants? Constitutional protections? Freedom?

      That’s pre-9/11 thinking, The Other Steve.

    104. 104.

      scs

      Does that really make them all “college towns”?

      Most cities do have colleges, however a college town is what I consider a town where a large portion of the city’s population/jobs is based on their college (Chapel Hill) and/or is known to house a particurly large number of colleges (Boston) or houses a very large college (Columbus, OH)

      Like “tourist towns”, hint: tourists don’t vote, and every smoking ban is ending up on a ballot at some point, either in response to councilman making it themselves, or the citizens pushing for it. For that matter, college kids don’t vote

      Yes college kids and tourists don’t vote, but college and tourist towns are full of aged college kids and aged tourists who moved to those towns for their thriving arts and culture scene and also business/shop owners who cater to that scene and who tend to be liberal. And since this is the US, such towns with a good cultural scene are not that common.

      Anyway, I looked up some of the towns on the list. This is what I’ve determined:

      Anchorage, AK -tourism, arts, University of Alaska
      Mesa, AZ –
      State of Idaho – lots of Rocky Mountain tourism
      Ft. Wayne, IN – big college town
      State of Maine -liberal
      Helena, MT -tourist town
      Bozeman, MT -college town
      Minot, ND (these ND towns do have U of ND branches)
      Fargo, ND (but not really college towns)
      Bismark, ND
      Columbus, OH – college town
      Odessa, TX
      State of Utah – mixed tourist state

      By the way Capelza, former Alaska resident, was wrong on University of Alaska:

      The UA educational system is made up of three universities,
      UA Fairbanks – enrollment in 2003, 10,487
      UA Southeast- in 2002, 700 full-time student
      UA Anchorage -Number of students: 17,512

      So UAA has the largest campus, not Fairbanks. Capelza must not have spent as much time there as she said.

    105. 105.

      Ancient Purple

      So UAA has the largest campus, not Fairbanks.

      You complete distorted what he said, scs. Typical.

      He didn’t say “largest,” she said “main.” And there is a difference. She is correct. UAA is not the premier or main university in Alaska. UAF is.

      In Arizona, the largest university is Arizona State. But the main university historically and present day is the University of Arizona in Tucson because it has the medical program and was the first university in the state.

      The rest of your research is bogus as well, because you base your conclusion on false assumptions. Interestingly enough, you won’t address the ORU situation in Tulsa. How about Bob Jones University in Greenville, NC. Is that a liberal town? How about Virginia Beach, VA with Jerry Falwell’s Liberty University. Is that a liberal town too?

      And your howling about tourism = liberalism is hooey as well. Please, by all means, tell me how Scottsdale, AZ, a Republican stronghold suburb of Phoenix (and adjacent to Tempe) is a liberal town because it has a huge tourism base. Oh, it also has arts and arts and arts.

      But don’t let the facts get in the way of your troll ranting.

    106. 106.

      Pb

      scs,

      I live near Chapel Hill–and let me tell you, there’s no shortage of colleges around here. So tell me, is Durham a college town as well? Is Raleigh? What are we to make of RTP? And how does all this affect Cary and Carrboro… There’s no simple dynamic at work here.

    107. 107.

      Pb

      Oh, and as I alluded to before–your ‘mixed tourist state’ of Utah just happens to be the most staunchly Republican state in the nation as well.

    110. 110.

      ppGaz

      Hey BIRD, what is “oppsed?”

      If you are speaking some kind of code, you should know that NSA is watching this blog like a …. well, like a hawk. If you’ll pardon the expression.

    111. 111.

      capelza

      scs:

      Fairbanks, Alaska..pop. 30,000 (college students 10,487)

      Anchorage, Alaska..pop. 277,000 (college students 17,512)

      somebody else want to do the percentages…but even to our own little GOP dream date here, it must be obvious.

    112. 112.

      Stormy70

      New York Times, liars. It’s hard when you can’t trust every hard luck torture story. A little cream for the coffee today.

      Back to Mario.

    113. 113.

      docG

      Liberalism = antismoking legislation?

      How about a different guess? Only 27% of men and 22% of women in the United States smoke. The vast majority of people do not like to smell like shit from being around smoke. It ain’t political, but is as good an explanation as liberals promote smoking bans.

    114. 114.

      The Other Steve

      Stormy70 – Well, you are certainly be well familiar with overstating facts. So it takes one to know one, I guess.

      For the record, I never cared about that article.

    115. 115.

      Richard 23

      scs:

      Kids will be the most effected.

      No big deal, but when something affects you, you feel its effect.

      Kids aren’t “effected” by anything. And there is no such thing as a placebo-affect.

      Good luck with your fume problem. But don’t sue — we’re in favor of tort reform around here.

      I’m not so sure that you’ve found liberal hypocrisy, but there may be a question of scale (neighbor’s passing of gas vs say mercury emitting coal plants).

      Your story had my head spinning and I don’t huff chemicals. Maybe that has something to do with the response you got. Presentation matters.

    116. 116.

      capelza

      Stormy70 Says:

      New York Times, liars. It’s hard when you can’t trust every hard luck torture story. A little cream for the coffee today.

      Wow…a paper issues corrections and they are liars…seems to me, to be a liar, one has to stick to the incorrect facts and continue to say they are factual. (i’m thinking the Bush adin, here…by your standards, even if they release some kind of correction, they are liars, too…thanks, I’ve been waiting for that mea culpa from you.)

      So the guy with the hood and the electrodes was NOT this guy? So who was he?…Lyndie Englund (spelling?) in a gag outfit?

    117. 117.

      scs

      No big deal, but when something affects you, you feel its effect.

      Kids aren’t “effected” by anything

      Yeah, I will never feel comfotable with that difference. I vote we abolish it and stick to one word.

      And nice try Capelza. You said this:

      Proud graduate of Oregon State University,(aka Oregon Straight) dearie…and the main campus of Uof A is in Fairbanks

      Which is wrong. Again:

      The UA educational system is made up of three universities,
      UA Fairbanks – enrollment in 2003, 10,487
      UA Southeast- in 2002, 700 full-time students
      UA Anchorage -Number of students: 17,512

      And you lived there for 30 years? You’re slipping.

    118. 118.

      scs

      A refresher from Dictionary.com

      These nouns denote an occurrence, situation, or condition that is caused by an antecedent. An effect is produced by the action of an agent or a cause and follows it in time:

      Usage Note: Affect and effect have no senses in common.

      As a verb affect is most commonly used in the sense of “to influence” (how smoking affects health).

      Effect means “to bring about or execute”: layoffs designed to effect savings.

      Thus the sentence These measures may affect savings could imply that the measures may reduce savings that have already been realized,

      whereas These measures may effect savings implies that the measures will cause new savings to come about.

    119. 119.

      scs

      Kids will be the most effected

      I still don’t get that. Let’s say kids are bombarded by fumes and feel lots of pain. Then they are feeling the fume’s “affects” and are “affected” by it. However, let’s say these kids with the fumes then later get asthma or cancer, and then these kids will be later experiencing the “effects” or the results of the fumes, so they will be effected.

      There is hardly ever an “affect” without an accompanying “effect”. Let’s face it, it can go either way, no matter what the high falluting grammar authorities try and pretend.

    120. 120.

      capelza

      scs..either you are a troll or you are too willfully stupid to even talk to. If you are trying to make a point don’t repeat the same numbers without responding to the post that followed it. Fairbanks..pop. 30,000 (students over ten thousand), Anchorage..pop. 277,000 (students over 17,000).

      Fairbanks was the first and remains the heart of the UA system. Anchorage, with it’s huge population, is of course going to have more students, but percentage wise it pales to Fairbanks, which is still the queen of the system. And Fairbanks itself remains the COLLEGE TOWN of AK.

      If you want to keep beating the Anchorage is liberal because it is a college town, please explain why Fairbanks, which IS a college town isn’t the one that passed the ban.

      I really have to restrain myself here. I don’t want to get banned because of something I might call you. However, I have to agree with others that in your passive-agressive way, you ARE the instigator. I am very tired and offended by your bullshit insinuations that I am not who I say I am. It only makes you look like an ass. John or Tim can look at my IP and see that it belongs to me and noone else and that it is unique to my name.

      Now go crying to John or Tim, but seriously you can go fuck yourself.

    121. 121.

      scs

      Now go crying to John or Tim, but seriously you can go fuck yourself

      DougJ, you are soooo cute.

    122. 122.

      The Other Steve

      scs..either you are a troll or you are too willfully stupid to even talk to.

      HA! I’ve been saying this for at least a month now.

      I think she’s clearly a parody troll to make Republicans look bad.

    123. 123.

      Pooh

      Further facts to get in SCS’s way on the Great College Town Debate is that UA-Anchorage is largely a commuter school – they built the first dorms about 5 years ago. So it’s much more night students and continuing education then people “going off to college” in the traditional sense.

      And Capelza, the correct answer is willfully ignorant. If you close off your eyes and ears, you won’t be exposed to unpleasant facts and can saefly indulge in your ‘intuitions’ and honestly say “I didn’t know that and I don’t believe you” anytime something contrary is said.

    124. 124.

      scs

      Besides I didn’t say Anchorage was JUST a college town, I said it had a good arts and tourists scene, as well as colleges. Here is some info from Wikipedia for you:

      Today Anchorage has many features of a modern urban area, such as parks and forests, bike and city trails, skiing and cross-country ski trails, business and commerce, theaters and other entertainments. The tourist industry is strong and offers many activities and attractions.

      Anchorage boasts four excellent higher-education facilities that offer quality higher education. The University of Alaska Anchorage and Alaska Pacific University are within walking distance of each other, and Charter College and Wayland Baptist University are also located in city limits.

      Despite the relative remoteness of the location, the city sports a lively arts community.

      Okay, happy now Capelza?

    126. 126.

      capelza

      Just a rhetorical question, folks..purely hypothetical..if a woman calls another woman a c**t, is it still considered sexist? Just askin’ here…

      scs, I would explain further who I am, but if you are a troll then I would be giving out too much information. Now if you are truly the insane person you present yourself to be, then again I would be giving out too much information. I don’t feel like endangering myself or my family to satisfy your sick little games.

    127. 127.

      scs

      So Capelza, 30 year native of Alaska, when you said this:

      Anchorage and artsy have never even in the same room, let alone the same sentence

      Wikipedia, the enclycopedia of the people, begs to differ:

      Despite the relative remoteness of the location, the city sports a lively arts community.

    128. 128.

      capelza

      What is really sad…scs conflates the arts with liberals. That is sad commentary on the creative spirit of conservatives.

      A funny story, my ex was stuck in Anchorage once, years ago, as the plane to Dutch Harbor was canceled (sadly a very common occurance) due to weather. So he goes downtown and buys me a lovely gift, a fossilized walrus bracelet. He tells me he had help from a nice lady that worked at the Bush Company, which was right next to the gallery he bought it at. In a nutshell, besides the dust (or dirty snow or mud), dirt and drunks on the very unlovely streets of that fair city, THAT is what Anchorage represents to me. Pooh, I’m sure you know what I’m talking about.

    129. 129.

      Pooh

      And McDonald’s sells nutritious breakfast…

      If you think Anchorage is artsy, you’re in error. If you think Anchorage is liberal, you’re in error.

      But please instruct me more from a position of complete ignorance, you should be used to it.

    130. 130.

      Pooh

      That’s the Great Alaska Bush Company. And no, it is not a campaign headquarters, it’s a world (in)famous establishment

    131. 131.

      scs

      If you think Anchorage is artsy, you’re in error. If you think Anchorage is liberal, you’re in error.

      Well then maybe you should try some editing on Wikipedia. It’s up to you to set America straight now. By the way, after that walrus bracelet story, I have a new theory on who you are, James (what’s his last name) the guy who wrote “A Million Little Pieces”. Do you know Oprah?

    132. 132.

      capelza

      Scs..I’m not taking the bait.

      why bother..every town likes to think it has a “lively arts community”…I bet even Provo says something similar in their speil.

      The other sad thing is that apparantly conservatives (based on your criteria) think that only liberals ever go anywhere…hence tourism. So what DO you people do? No arts, no tourism…huddle around your radio, listening to Limbaugh?

    134. 134.

      capelza

      Pohh, I forgot…when my ex was giving this and telling me about the Bush Company (I was so innocent in those days.. :P ..I thought it was an outfitter, like REI (I’d seen it on the credit card bills and didn’t even blink))…the “hooker with a heart of gold” comment he made at the time went right over my head.

    136. 136.

      scs

      think that only liberals ever go anywhere…hence tourism. So what DO you people do? No arts, no tourism

      Well my theory is, conservatives may travel, but they don’t MOVE to those tourists spots as much, to run the small shops that cater to tourists. I would guess that conservatives tend to be “conservative” in their living choices as well and are more likely to stay close to where they grew up, hence why small towns tend to have more conservatives. Or I would guess conservatives choose a location based more on “family” issues, such as being close to family, or moving to a place with good jobs to support their families, not so much the “culture” scene. But that’s just me and my impression. Feel free to disagree. I know you will.

    137. 137.

      scs

      the “hooker with a heart of gold” comment he made at the time went right over my head.

      Oh my gawd…

    140. 140.

      ppGaz

      Anchorage might be considered “artsy” if by “art” you mean sculpture made out of old railroad ties. Or elaborate snowmen.

      Mind you, I have never been to AK, but (a) I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once, and (b) I just felt like saying the thing about the railroad ties.

      Which, so far, makes me more of an expert on the subject than, say, scs.

    141. 141.

      Ancient Purple

      why bother..every town likes to think it has a “lively arts community”…I bet even Provo says something similar in their speil.

      Agreed. scs continues to completey ignore the facts I pointed out regarding Scottsdale and its fantastic arts scene. The Thursday Art Walk in downtown Scottsdale is one of the most popular things in that suburb and Scottsdale is and always will be a conservative Republican stronghold.

      And scs also wants us to believe that Tulsa, Greenville and Virgina Beach are liberal havens because of the universities there.

      scs is either a troll or an idiot.

      I think a bit of both.

    142. 142.

      Davebo

      The other sad thing is that apparantly conservatives (based on your criteria) think that only liberals ever go anywhere…hence tourism. So what DO you people do?

      Significant travel usually requires an airplane ride.

      Muslims have not been banned from the Airlines.

      It’s just so much safer to stay home.

      Under the bed.

    143. 143.

      scs

      Agreed. scs continues to completey ignore the facts I pointed out regarding Scottsdale and its fantastic arts scene.

      I think you have a problem with the concept of or statistics or “trends”. Refresh up on that and get back to me.

    144. 144.

      capelza

      ppGaz…there is also a splendid tradition of horrible, tacky gold nugget jewelry, too. You ain’t nobody until you own a watch made from gold nuggets with ram’s heads with ruby eyes (or giant king crabs) on either side of the face …and lest we forget…the moose dropping earrings.

    145. 145.

      scs

      Anyway, Sybil, it’s been fun today, but all good things must come to an end. Besides, I thought you didn’t have a computer this weekend? Did you fix it? Carry on..

    146. 146.

      Ancient Purple

      I think you have a problem with the concept of or statistics or “trends”. Refresh up on that and get back to me.

      Well, scs, I know about statistics and trends very well. But you were the one who popped off about how the list of locales I provided were all liberal havens with smoking bans. And over the course of less than 24 hours, you have backtracked again and again, even stupidly maintaining that Mesa, AZ was the land of vegan food parlors and lesbians run amok until shown that you were completely wrong.

      I know it is easier for your uninformed self to cling to the concepts of black and white in your small little world, but just because you believe something to be true doesn’t make it so.

      Or are you still going to maintain that the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America is a front for fundamentalists?

    147. 147.

      Steve

      A funny story, my ex was stuck in Anchorage once, years ago, as the plane to Dutch Harbor was canceled (sadly a very common occurance) due to weather.

      I have a cousin who lives in Dutch Harbor. Between the two of us we might have just described the entire population.

    148. 148.

      scs

      scs: Actually looking at that list, most are liberal places(not all). Many are college and or tourist towns

      you: But you were the one who popped off about how the list of locales I provided were all liberal havens with smoking bans.

      You decide.

    150. 150.

      Pooh

      I think you have a problem with the concept of or statistics or “trends”. Refresh up on that and get back to me.

      Were one to make a statistical analyis of BJ posts, would Scs’ entries be significant, or simply ‘noise’?

    151. 151.

      ppGaz

      the moose dropping earrings

      Oh, well, I didn’t know about those. That changes everything. That’s why they call Anchorage the Sedona of the Frozen North.

      BTW, can I get a pair of those earrings? I’ve got a wedding anniversary coming up and it would be a gift for the woman who has everything ….

    152. 152.

      capelza

      Steve Says:

      A funny story, my ex was stuck in Anchorage once, years ago, as the plane to Dutch Harbor was canceled (sadly a very common occurance) due to weather.

      I have a cousin who lives in Dutch Harbor. Between the two of us we might have just described the entire population.
      March 18th, 2006 at 1:59 pm

      Haha…sometimes it feels like the entire population of Dutch is stuck in the Anchoarge airport…

      Ask your cousin if they have ever been to Egegik. The best liquor store in the whole world is there. It’s open during lunch and an hour after work. It’s a rusty old quonset hut with with a crappy leanto attached on one end and a hand painted hand on beat up plywood. Of course to get there you walk up a sand trail not wide enough for a truck. That is after you take the 30 minute skiff ride from the boat. Folks line up to get what they want..they even had Grey Goose! But that’s in the summer…I think there are 90 year residents.

      Of course you risk getting stranded on a sand bar on the way back, but at least you go the booze to tide you over… :P

      I am very homesick…

    153. 153.

      Pooh

      My favorite is the roadhouse (definitely in the Swayze sense) on the Parks highway up to Fairbanks: “Skinny Dick’s Halfway Inn”

    154. 154.

      ppGaz

      make a statistical analyis of BJ posts, would Scs’ entries

      Well, we’re gonna need a way to associate scalars and vectors with the utterances of a paranoid schizophrenic.

      Let me check with the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, I think they have something on this ….

    155. 155.

      ppGaz

      My favorite is the roadhouse (definitely in the Swayze sense) on the Parks highway up to Fairbanks: “Skinny Dick’s Halfway Inn”

      For some reason, that sounds vaguely familiar. Hmm.

      Reminds me of a joke I heard from Jay Leno last night:

      Guy calls 911 and threatens to cut off his own penis.

      Police said when they got there, he was just nuts.

    156. 156.

      Otto Man

      New York Times, liars.

      Wow, nice catch Stormy! The New York Times made a mistake and they got stone cold busted by … the New York Times. Oh well, I bet they hid the evidence by burying the retraction on … the front page. Um, they lied, OK?

      Unlike Bush, who — as Stormy will surely tell you — didn’t lie about the WMDs because he really believed in it, unlike those lying dirty liars at the New York Times. And Bush had the courage to retract his mistake when many many other people pointed it out to him, unlike the liars of the New York Times who quickly and fully corrected themselves.

      Liars!

    157. 157.

      capelza

      I think my favourite is once in Larsen Bay, on Kodiak Island…there is a salmon packing plant and a lodge, and some homes. Not a whole lot to do. So the going to the dump to watch the bears eat garbage ranks high on the entertainment scale. Some friends once crammed into a Yugo (now you know where THOSE cars go to die) and went up there. A couple thought they were safe in the car, but one friend pointed out that the bear was probably thinking..”yum, crunchy on the outside, but soft in the middle”.

    158. 158.

      Pooh

      Unlike Bush, who—as Stormy will surely tell you—didn’t lie about the WMDs because he really believed in it, unlike those lying dirty liars at the New York Times. And Bush had the courage to retract his mistake when many many other people pointed it out to him

      And by ‘admitted his mistake’ you mean ‘searchrd under his desk’. (Which I still think is funny in a “NFW he did that” sort of way.) Where, ironically, he found Nicole’s real killer.

    159. 159.

      Otto Man

      And by ‘admitted his mistake’ you mean ‘searchrd under his desk’. (Which I still think is funny in a “NFW he did that” sort of way.) Where, ironically, he found Nicole’s real killer.

      Good point. I guess he never really admitted his statements about WMDs were incorrect.

      So that makes the New York Times an even bigger liar!

    161. 161.

      ppGaz

      Okay, it’s an open thread.

      So let’s get open.

      The following is from DKos, and talks about star rising in the Republican firmament. Read it and then get mad, very mad. These crazy assholes are stealing your country:

      The Republican party has a problem. Some of its potential 2008 nominees want religion to replace the state. We saw this earlier with Senator Brownback. And now, let’s examine Governor Mike Huckabee, who made a “powerful impression” during the Republican convention down in Memphis. Huckabee has been described as a “moderate” for the 2008 race. Sure, to a crowded room of die-hard Republicans, his rhetoric may not seem extreme. But consider how the following will play to the vast majority of Americans. This weekend, Huckabee spoke at a conference for the Center for Reclaiming America for Christ. The Center’s mission is to “To inform, equip, motivate, and support Christians; enabling them to defend and implement the Biblical principles on which our country was founded.” The five goals Huckabee aligned himself with are described as the “five key fronts of the modern-day culture war: (1) Religious Liberties, (2) the Sanctity of Life, (3) the Homosexual Agenda, (4) Pornography, and (5) Promoting Creationism.” Huckabee made it clear at the group’s conference that he shares their goal of dismantling the constitutional wall between church and state:

      FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. – Faith is not present enough in politics as candidates and elected officials try to court voters too broadly, fearing their values will splinter their base, Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, a Southern Baptist minister, said Friday at a Christian gathering.

      Introduced as a “fine Christian American governor,” Huckabee, who is considering a bid for the 2008 GOP presidential nomination, said he will always remain true to his beliefs.

      “I don’t think most Americans are turned off by people of faith. I think they’re turned off by people who are phony,” Huckabee said to a small group. He added that Christianity is not represented “nearly enough” in Washington.

      Yeah, because having all three branches of government filled almost entirely by Christians isn’t enough. Also speaking at the Conference is Florida Representative Katherine Harris, who will speak about “Bringing Faith to the Public Forum .” And, indeed, the Center has brought faith to the public forum. Its Director had the unique opportunity to meet personally with Justices of the Supreme Court after Alito’s confirmation. The Center’s founder calls the church-state separation `diabolical,’ a `false doctrine’ and `a lie propagated by Thomas Jefferson.’ In engaging the “enemy” in this “culture war”, the Center’s founder claims “This is our land. This is our world. This is our heritage, and with God’s help, we shall reclaim this nation for Jesus Christ. And no power on earth can stop us.”

      Does anyone else find it incredibly disturbing that a potential Presidential nominee so easily embraces a group that states there is no separation between church and state? And why hasn’t the media asked Huckabee whether he agrees with the Center’s mission of dismantling the Constitutionally prescribed boundary between religion and politics?

      Tell me again how Democrats are responsible for the partisan atmosphere in today’s politics?

    162. 162.

      Richard Bottoms

      Dear suckers for Bush, your war turns 3 years old tomorrow.

      US dead: 2300

      US Wounded: 17,000

      Iraqi Dead: 100,000

      Cost: $400,000,000,000 and counting

      WMD found: 0

      Have a nice day. Assholes.

    164. 164.

      Ancient Purple

      Dear suckers for Bush, your war turns 3 years old tomorrow.

      Mr. Bottoms,

      You forgot this statistic:

      Number of confirmed connections between Al Qaeda and Saddam: 0

    165. 165.

      Ancient Purple

      “This is our land. This is our world. This is our heritage, and with God’s help, we shall reclaim this nation for Jesus Christ. And no power on earth can stop us.”

      Yeah, because the gospel of Jesus Christ proclaims that the richest nation on the face of the planet should allow 44 million of its own citizens to go without health care coverage because they can’t afford it.

      God must be so proud.

    166. 166.

      Pooh

      I wonder if the liquor store in Egegik is better than the grocery store in Wasilla.

      I dunno about that, but I’m quite certain that I’ve discovered the best sports mascot. Tetetlik HS in Tetetlik, AK.

      The Fighting Tetelikers. I kid you only sort of…

    167. 167.

      Jon H

      Go see V for Vendetta.

      That is all.

      (Except for this: any right winger who condemns the movie and says it glorifies terrorism would probably have a monthlong orgasm if ‘V’ clones appeared in Iran, North Korea, Syria, Libya, Egypt, etc. )

    168. 168.

      Baron Elmo

      These crazy assholes are stealing your country

      Fear not, Gaz… the likes of Brownback and Huckabee don’t have a chance in hell of getting elected in this country. The Christian Right is overplaying their hand with a vengeance, just like they did after Reagan got elected. Remember? The Moral Majority was riding high, and the Falwells of the land were eagerly awaiting the overturning of Roe, prayer put back in the schools, porno banned for good and smut driven from the airwaves.

      Didn’t pan out so well for them, did it?

      Fact is, the fundie Xians get much more accomplished by stealth, when the American public isn’t watching them… their modus operandi during those heathenish Clinton years. But now they’re cocky and sure of themselves, getting in everyone’s faces — and it will backfire big time. They may have helped push Bush’s numbers over the top in 2004, but the religious right is more of a liability than an asset to the GOP circa 2006.

      Because, when push comes to shove, most Americans just don’t want our nation to become a theocracy. Our nation loves fun more than life itself… and Christian right-wingers are easily the least fun, most pain-in-the-ass demographic we have.

    169. 169.

      GTinMN

      Because, when push comes to shove, most Americans just don’t want our nation to become a theocracy. Our nation loves fun more than life itself… and Christian right-wingers are easily the least fun, most pain-in-the-ass demographic we have.

      The problem is, no one should allow these fucking frauds to get away with calling themselves Christians. Call them faux-Christians, anti-Christians, the American Taliban, the New Pharisees, utter hypocrites, White Supremacist shitestains, etc., but for the love of everything decent, don’t let them get away with associating themselves with the Jesus of the Gospels by calling themselves Christians. Also, be sure every time they start up with this crap in your presence, to make sure you rub their nose in the fact that Jesus is consistently portrayed in the Gospels as an utter liberal, and has nothing at all to do with anything they profess or aspire to.
      Seriously, these people need to be consistently called out in public on this crap, so they are forced back into the woodwork.

    170. 170.

      The Other Steve

      “I don’t think most Americans are turned off by people of faith. I think they’re turned off by people who are phony,” Huckabee said to a small group. He added that Christianity is not represented “nearly enough” in Washington.

      In other words. Huckabee is a phony.

      He wouldn’t have said that, if it wasn’t on his mind. He’s projecting again.

      Elmo wrote:

      Didn’t pan out so well for them, did it?

      Actually, that’s interesting. I no longer see the protests against porn LIke I say back in the 80’s. They used to picket the local 7-11 because they sold playboy or something back then.

      Maybe that’s cause now the fundies can get their porn online.

    171. 171.

      Krista

      Call them faux-Christians, anti-Christians, the American Taliban, the New Pharisees, utter hypocrites, White Supremacist shitestains, etc., but for the love of everything decent, don’t let them get away with associating themselves with the Jesus of the Gospels by calling themselves Christians

      Well, we have RINOs, so why not CINOs?

    172. 172.

      Raffi

      Re: Tulsa

      HA! There’s NOWHERE in Oklahoma that is REMOTELY liberal. I was born and raised there, and spent nearly 20 years of my life there. Well, I guess there ARE a couple of liberal areas/neighborhoods in OKC and Tulsa…but…BARELY…wait I’m thinking more that there are a couple of liberal PEOPLE there. :)

      As for Flagstaff, it IS pretty damned liberal from my experience. F*ck the politics, the *atmosphere* of the place, the general sense one gets while strolling the neighborhoods or streets or shops or diners/cafes…is liberal. At least it was to me and one of my best friends who lived there for a few years…same with his roomie, who was FROM there and decidedly NOT a hippie.

      University does not equal liberal town, BUT college towns are *generally* a bit more ‘liberal’ and open simply due to the large influx of different young people from different places with different ideas.

      Funny thing is, Arizona is a very conservative state, by nature, and yet it is full of hippies, new agers, free spirits, and phreaks! :D yay!

      PEACE

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