Everyone is linking to Ben Domenech’s piece in the WaPo, so I gave it a look, and this graf puzzled me:
Any red-blooded American conservative, even those who hold a dim view of Patrick Swayze’s acting “talent,” knows a Red Dawn reference. For all the talk of left wing cultural political correctness, the right has such things, too (DO shop at Wal-Mart, DON’T buy gas from Citgo). But in the progressive halls of the mainstream media, such things prompt little or no recognition. For the MSM, Dan Rather is just another TV anchor, France is just another country and Red Dawn is just another cheesy throwaway Sunday afternoon movie.
Someone please explain the Citgo reference.
Aaron
Owned by Venezuela, I think.
jg
Red Dawn ISN’T a cheesy sunday movie?
Tom in Texas
Exactly. Citgo is the Venezualan National Gas Company. Don’t support Chavez.
M.A.
What an utterly vapid blog that is. Not a single line there that isn’t a tired old cliche; not an observation about the left that is true, and the blogger talks about “Red Americans” as if they’re creatures from outer space. (Note to Ben: every blue-state kid knows Red Dawn, and every smart person in blue or red states knows it’s cheesy.) Combine that with the irony of a guy railing against the “MSM” while writing for the Washington freakin’ Post. It represents all that is detached from reality and intellectually incurious about the contemporary right.
jg
His whole article is about how clueless the non-heartland is about what ‘real’ americans want. How out of touch they are with american values and why they can’t win elections. A wingnuts wet dream actually.
Doug
As for the rest of that column, the last time I heard the “liberals only win with *our* ideas” whine was when Republicans were losing to Clinton. To me that rougly translates to, “No fair, you don’t resemble the liberal strawmen we’d like the Democrats to be.”
Ancient Purple
Red Dawn? Geez. That movie was made to be mocked on Mystery Science Theater 3000.
God, I miss that show.
JoeTx
http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/citgo.asp
The Bushbots are just jealous that they haven’t consolidated power to the extent Chevez has.
Steve
The theme of that blog is the same old crap we see from the righties here and elsewhere: if we get 51% of the vote, that proves that a permanent majority of the public agrees with the conservative on every issue.
Compare this Al Maviva quote from a few days ago:
with Domenech’s opening sentence:
Clearly this is the standard attempt to create conventional wisdom. Liberal ideas are branded as losers forevermore, and Democrats can only hope to win if they get as far away as possible from those darn liberal ideas. Of course, I don’t blame them for trying, as some elected Democrats seem so shellshocked from multiple losses that they actually believe this line.
Of course, I’m sure the argument works in reverse as well. Democrats are currently running on Republican corruption and incompetence, but if they manage to take over in 2006 or 2008, they will inevitably see it as a triumph for the progressive agenda, when in reality it’s mostly about Bush being a bad president.
And on the other side of the aisle, conservatives will conclude that Republicans lost because they were not true enough to their conservative ideals and failed to energize the base, and they will increasingly focus on casting the RINOs into the outer darkness. This is how the game is played, friends!
norbizness
A. Purple: the Austin local comedy troupe, Mr. Sinus Theatre, HAS mocked Red Dawn at the Alamo Drafthouse (for instance, the word “WOLVERINES!” was a cue to drink).
As for Ben’s writing, he looks to be some sort of beta program that takes Jonah Goldberg’s lamest pop culture references, garbles them, and spits them out in a language that vaguely approximates English.
Andrew
Come on guys, the WaPo just HAD to provide journalistic balance.
However, given their choice of a semi-literate, Swayze-worshiping (closeted or ex-gay?) professional troll, they are apparently trying to balance out facts with an equal dose of stupidity.
SeesThroughIt
Seriously. But then again, the guy edits for Regnery Publishing…not exactly a hothouse for keen writing skills, original material, or illuminating insight.
Also, spot-on post as usual, Steve. It is sort of funny to see that GOP line about 51 percent of the vote going for Bush means that every single person loves each and every one of Bush’s ideas, thinks he’s right about everything, and has absolutely zero buyer’s remorse. Oh, and that it also means that the election was won based on “superiority of ideas” and how the Democrats are 100 percent wrong on everything. Funny, but sad. Like a dead clown.
srv
Another WaPo writer has a reply:
Ruth’s Reply
SeesThroughIt
Oh, I also love this new meme about how Wal-mart is Republican and shopping there is as Republican as listening to Rush Limbaugh, watching Fox News, and claiming a monopoly on patriotism. So…Republicans stand for widespread sub-poverty wages; overseas sweatshop labor at the expense of American jobs; and using Medicare, Medicaid, WIC, and similar programs as the company health program (they hate “welfare queens” but worship the company that puts more people on the welfare rolls than any other…funny how that works).
I can’t decide if it’s incredibly hypocritical, incredibly revealing, incredibly stupid, or all of the above.
Zifnab
They don’t always even need 51% do they? When 49% of the country and five Supreme Court Justices vote for you, that’s almost a mandate from Heaven, right? I mean, if the Republican Revolution was such a powerful force, one would necessarily question the need for gerrymandering and Diebold voting machines. But those damn Blue-Staters are so permenantly trapped in their pre-9/11 mentality…
LITBMueller
And, here’s another puzzling part:
Well, yeah, people ARE paying attention. And, Ben, don’t wanna burst your bubble, but…that supposed Red majority is against the war, against Bush, and against Congress.
So, how “red” is it really?
don surber
M.A.
“the irony of a guy railing against the “MSM” while writing for the Washington freakin’ Post”
Oh hell, all the big bloggers are that way. Typical blurb on a weekend: “Watch me rail against the MSM on Fox and please by my book which is 839th on the NYT best sellers list”
MSM rants=MSM envy
Paul Wartenberg
No. It’s a cheesy SATURDAY movie. There’s a difference.
james richardson
Don’t buy gas at Citgo because it’s owned by Venezualans?
Isn’t Venezuala the country that recently decided to sell heating oil at low costs to American Cities in need?
And we’re boycotting them why? Because they’re bad for business? Because their leader makes fun of Bush? Because… ?
Mean Gene
Not only is this 20-watt-bulb wrong about the supremacy of conservative ideas in the intellectual marketplace, he’s even wrong that “Red Dawn” is a red-blooded manly-man movie. For Chrissakes, we get invaded by Cuba! CUBA!!! And we get our asses kicked! They line up our people against walls and machine-gun them! They put our men in concentration camps! What good is the 2nd Amendment if we don’t use those Constitutionally-protected guns to defend the nation like a good local militia should??!!
Who saves the day? Teenagers! A bunch of kids running around plinking convoys and stealing Soviet C-rations. For the love of God, LEA THOMPSON is the one manning (sorry, womaning, SORRY, womyning) the heavy machine gun in our merry band of Wolverines. Yes, the future star of “Caroline in the City” is the one entrusted with the heavy weapons.
If “Red Dawn” were released today Domenech and his ilk would be pissing themselves with outrage over how this pinko-leftist-liberal-Hollywood propaganda mocks the virility of American men and secretly desires the imposition of a Fidelian utopia.
If you’re relying on trash like “Red Dawn” as evidence to back up your arguments you are many, many sandwiches short of a picnic. And when you lack the candlepower to even interpret that trash correctly, well, it’s just sad. Very, very sad.
Jill
I plan on buying my gas at Citgo from now on. Thanks Ben for the heads up!
SeesThroughIt
I damn near did a spit take while reading this. Excellent work, good sir!
JWeidner
Two points –
One on Citgo and boycotting. My wife used to work with a woman whose husband was an oil company engineer. Every so often, when gas was still hovering around the $1.20/gallon range and was threatening to rise, you’d often see emails circulating that said “Everyone boycot Shell stations this Friday – we’ll show those money-grubbing oil companies who really controls the marketplace!” Here was the engineer’s reasoning for ignoring those boycott requests then, and why I would assume a boycott of Citgo would be similarly ineffective…
Leaving out a whole host of other factors, boycotting a particular brand of gas is ineffective because we’re all still consuming gas at the same rate as we always do. That means that even if we all stopped and never bought another drop of gas from Citgo (or Chevron or BP or whoever), the same amount of gas is still going to be purchased (ie: overall demand remains the same). Now, the other companies don’t have magic wells of gasoline to absorb that extra demand that we’re all going to suddenly put on them by boycotting Citgo, so those companies in turn go and buy gas from companies who have surplus – like CITGO!
There really isn’t a way to effectively boycott a single company in this marketplace. They’ll still sell gas, they just sell it to other companies so that the other companies can keep up with increased demand. That simplifies what the engineer had said, but it still, IMHO, illustrates the futility of trying to boycott a gas company – it ain’t gonna work.
Oh yeah – my second point….
WOLVERINES!
Doug
So, what I need to know, is whether “Starship Troopers” is a red-state movie or a blue-state movie. It’s utterly cheesy, and yet I’m compelled to watch.
Would you like to know more?
srv
I hear WalMart and Limbaugh are getting together to open a new theme park: Trailer Park World.
Sstarr
Sometimes it seems that at some point in the late 80’s or early 90’s political discourse ceased to be related to the proper role and function of the government and the proper foreign policy objectives of the nation and instead began to be about “political lifestyle choices” in a way that is precisely outlined in the WA PO puff piece.
In other words, people vote to put a (usually) guy in office whom they feel eats what they eat, watches what they watch, shops where they shop and worships where they worship. And they’ll support whatever policies that familiar seeming person proposes.
So in this modern world references to Wal-Mart and Red Dawn get right to the heart of our political discourse. It’s issues like the federal government’s debt limit and the human rights record of China that are peripheral.
RSA
What’s with the continuing conservative obsession about France? The only thing I can think of is the oil for food scandal, but Canada and Russia, not to mention Exxon and Chevron Texaco, don’t seem to get nearly the same amount of attention.
Krista
It’s available on DVD, but bloody expensive. Fantastic show…my fave was the Pod People. “Food…eating…the theatre…” I’ve watched it way too many times.
I really haven’t the foggiest. It’s downright weird, frankly. I suppose many Americans consider France to be the complete antithesis of everything they like. Beer vs. wine. Meat vs. cheese. Capitalism vs. socialism. America makes no secret of its disdain for France, and France makes no secret of not giving a flying piece of merde what America thinks.
RSA
Ah, a culture clash. Say no more.
LITBMueller
heh heh…I think Ben should’ve called his blog….
RED SCOPRION!!!!
…Jack approved…….
Al Maviva
Steve, I guess you’re onto us. The only thing that shocks me is it took Ben nearly a week to blog Brother KKKarl’s morning talking points fax. Ben is slow, and I’m going to recommend that they cut down on his supply of bribe money and Afghan heroin.
Oh, and Jill, if you’re into hugging Hugo to piss off the Bushies, then you really need to check out Kim Jong Il. I hear he can really Central Party, if you know what I mean. And Bush hates him, so he must be a pretty good guy. And what do you think about that hideous Gusano raising a sign at the Cuban baseball game at the World Baseball Classic? The nerve of these worms…
metalgrid
Sometimes it seems that at some point in the late 80’s or early 90’s political discourse ceased to be related to the proper role and function of the government and the proper foreign policy objectives of the nation and instead began to be about “political lifestyle choices” in a way that is precisely outlined in the WA PO puff piece.
I am inclined to agree and I think it’s because central (federal) government has become to pervasive, the executive branch has become too powerful and federalism has long since met its end.
james richardson
OK, 2nd post is a question:
Who is Ben?
james richardson
OH, the original WP red-state guy that liberals are giving the WP hell for hiring :-)
Zifnab
Political discourse is relegated to “political lifestyle choices” because any other avenue of political discourse inevitably leads to a Republican fuckup. At least when you’re talking about banning gay marriage or poisoning Kennedy you can make some of the people happy some of the time.
Pooh
Al, it’s funny, but the only people in these here comments who post things like
are the conservatives. Some might say that this projection is designed to avoid discussion of any actual issues, and to instead engage in successive rounds of the ever satisfying game of “Tu quoque me? No, tu quoque YOU!”
canuckistani
I have often wondered about that. My best explanation is this: Conservatives see WWII the high point of American civilization. It was the peak of American moral authority and world power. For conservatives, it was the Golden Age, when American arms freed the world from tyranny, and conservative moral values set the tone for personal relationships.*
The French do not look back at the 1940’s with pride and reverence. They have tried to put the past behind them, and over the decades have ceased to be grateful for the benefits of American intervention in WWII. Far from being grateful, they now have the temerity to criticize their saviours, and sneer at their inferior culture. How ungrateful is that?
Throw in a certain unspoken feeling of cultural inferiority, some lingering Vietnam anger and you have a huge pile of festering resentment just waiting to burst out at the slightest provocation.
*For liberals of course, issues of civil rights and willingness to eat jello salads take the gilding off an otherwise heroic era. Also of note, for analysis later, is the continuing fondness between two liberal nations, the Netherlands and their Canadian liberators.
Otto Man
Damn right, Pooh. There are some on the right — not all, but some — who are incapable of responding to reasoned critiques from the left and just have to funnel everything into their caricatures of what they think liberals should look like.
Whether it’s Al’s KKKarl, MacBucket’s always hilarious Chimpy McHitlerBurton!!!!111!!11!!!, or the general theme of “irrational Bush hatred,” those comments just reveal a pathetic inability to argue on the merits.
RSA
I should have remembered Oscar Wilde:
SeesThroughIt
I think this is part of the reason why so many conservatives can’t stand France: those durned bastards refuse to acknowledge the US of A as the rootinest, tootinest bestest place in the world to which all other countries shall pay some goddamn respect, dammit!
Or maybe it’s just ignorance of history. Who’s to say?
Also, MST3K was/is freaking great. I really enjoyed [i]The Lost City[/i]–I think that’s the title of it. Filmed in Alberta, about a whiny-ass brat hunting for a lost city with his new travelling companion, a meat-bearded and mulleted dude named Rowsdower. It’s just too stupid for words, and the MST crew effectively cut it to ribbons. For a long time, “What would Coach Don Shula do?” was an instant laugh line with my old roommate.
RSA
The Final Sacrifice. “Oooh, I needs me an eraser!”
Eural
OK – I’ve got to jump on the Red Dawn bandwagon. I’ve used it for many years in my senior level AP and IB history classes and have found that with almost complete unanimity:
Everyone (regardless of political affiliation) thoroughly enjoys it
Everyone (regardless of political affiliation) regards it as an entertaining, highly cheesy action flick
So, if there are hardcore conservatives out there that consider it some ouvre of special meaning and importance then they really need to look harder! (Perhaps Mr. Milius’ highly under-rated “Conan the Barbarian”? Now that’s the manliest of manly flicks!)
chopper
i wouldn’t go so far as to say that the US under the new deal was the high point in american civilization to conservatives. to many, WWII may have been the peak of american foreign policy, maybe. but the US during the war years was hardly a right-winger’s paradise.
i would say that leftists would point to the 60’s as the nadir of american civilization, not because of the free-love hippy crap but for the great strides taken in civil rights and using the power of people and voices to change the entire system. i don’t know what i’d point to as the highest point for a modern right-winger..the reagan years may be up there, but really weren’t as good as people make it out.
Faux News
Regarding Red Dawn:
Not only did the Cubans invade us so did the Sandinistas from Nicaragua! Yep, they just rolled through Mexico and split the US of A in half! Those armies must have been disguised as Illegal Immigrant Day Workers to sneak in like that.
Wolverines!
SeesThroughIt
Don’t point that out to conservatives–they will attack you like…
…dare I say it?
WOLVERINES!
The Other Steve
Heh. I really liked Red Dawn.
Krista
Fondness is putting it mildly. My bf and I were over there for the 60th anniversary of the liberation, along with his veteran grandfather. We fully expected that he would be welcomed warmly, but it verged on the ridiculous. He was treated like a veritable god, and the bf and I were also treated like visiting royalty, just by virtue of being Canadian. To many younger Dutch, the Canadian soldiers have reached a mythic status, so to see them in the flesh — well, their reaction was humbling. They treated our veterans much better than we do.
They’re such wonderful, welcoming, kind people. I definitely want to get back there as soon as finances permit.
Steve
My goodness. Are we talking about the same Dutch here?
Krista
Steve – that was my experience, anyway. You very well may have experienced something different, but when I was there, everybody that I met was very kind.
Steve
Well, I don’t want to perpetuate any hateful racial stereotypes here, but gosh. I think I’ll just chalk it up to your kindhearted Canadian spirit that sees the best in all people.
canuckistani
Oh geez, how to broach this one without giving offense…
All the Canadians I know who have been to the Netherlands loved it there, and got along really well with the Dutch. I suspect Steve’s experience may have been coloured by ummm, this reputation Americans have when they travel outside their borders, or by the fact that a lot of people in the world just don’t think much of Americans. Not that I don’t like Americans or anything, I’m just sayin’…
Steve
I’ve been to England, Scotland and France (and Canadaf, for that matter!), and never encountered a single person I didn’t get along with. I don’t know where you get this idea that we’re pelted with rotten tomatoes every time we leave the country, but it didn’t correspond with my reality, in any case.
Bruce Moomaw
Well, I hate to say it, but it IS just another cheesy Sunday afternoon throwaway movie. As for the right-wing attitude toward France, it’s a mark of how much damage the Bush Administration’s demonization of that country did to Americans’ sanity that the latest Gallup poll shows that Americans regard Russia as more of an ally to the US than France is.
canuckistani
In no way was I commenting on the travelling behaviour of any of the fine people who post on this blog. But I think you’re being naive if you don’t think American tourists have a bad reputation in many parts of the world, or that many Americans will end up paying a social price for unpopular American policies. Otherwise, I cannot account for across-the-board rudeness by the Dutch.
Did you wear a “Fuck the Dutch” T-shirt?
Steve
I grew up in Michigan. Perhaps you had to be there…
Jon H
Citgo, owned by Venezuela, has been giving cut-price or possibly free heating oil to poor Americans in the cold Northeast.
And for that, they are to be despised, apparently.
Jon H
I wonder what Ben would say about a remake of Red Dawn, set in Iraq, with a bunch of Iraqi teens fighting off the American and British invaders?
(Oh, and the Polish. Can’t forget Poland!)
Krista
Well, thanks.
I don’t think it was just that, though. The people we met were just about ready to give us the shirts off their backs. My bf couldn’t get over how incredibly kind and generous they all were, and he can be as cynical as anybody out there. I got to meet Princess Margriet, and she was so warm and gracious — utter class.
I’m not sure what you mean by the Michigan reference. Are there lots of Dutch expats there? People probably act a bit differently when they’re not in their native land, particularly if they’ve had a difficult time with immigration, finding work, and getting used to a different way of life.
rachel
I’m an American, I’ve lived in Japan (3 1/2 years) and Korea (11 years), and I’ve travelled a little. People are nice to me everywhere I go.
OTOH, I’ve seen American tourists, expats (and a few servicemen) act like loud, insensitive, obnoxious, xenophobic jerks, like everybody should be in awe of them because they’re Americans, and the local food isn’t good enough for their dainty palates. Damn, but it’s embarassing.
Krista
rachel – it’s not exclusive to Americans. One thing that I really found embarassing when I was over there, was that some of the spouses of veterans (and even some of the veterans themselves) were bitching and moaning about the lack of tv shows, the language barrier, the weather, and even the food. The food thing really pissed me off. I just wanted to say, “The last time you were over here, the Dutch were starving and dying in the streets, and now they’re sharing everything they have with us, and you’re bitching about the quality of the food?” I’m pretty firmly of the opinion, though, that if you travel with the demand of having everything the way it is at home, you should just stay the hell home and not subject everybody else to your inflexible attitude.
neil
Yeah, John, I would’ve figured you knew it was because the evil Venezuela owns Citgo, and like all Red State Real Americans, Mr. Domenech is _very_ concerned that his gas money not go to any nations that have the slightest hostility against the United States.
SeesThroughIt
Touche and zing!
A similar role-reversal has already taken place. You know the Bush Doctrine that right wingers like Ben love so much? The one that says we’re allowed to preemptively strike nations we perceive as a threat even on shaky intel? Yeah, North Korea just adopted the same doctrine. I think I already know how the wingers will try to deny that turnabout is fair play (they’re godless, communist, terrorist, godless commie terrorists–and they certainly don’t have the forces of Jebus and capitalism on their side, so they’re not allowed to do what we do!), but I’m quite curious to see this spin in action.
Nikki
Am I the only person who REALLY hated Red Dawn? I mean, the Cubans attacked Middle America when Florida is much closer? COME ON, PEOPLE!!
tb
I don’t know about that. Grover Norquist can’t wait for the people of that generation all to die. He thinks they were a bunch of socialists.
JWeidner
Admittedly, it has been a long time since I’ve seen it, but I seem to recall that the opening crawl had something about Mexico going Commie, and then the Cubans and Russians used that country as a launching pad for the invasion.
Either way, I don’t think anyone here really liked it for its military “authenticity”…
Al Maviva
The folks I met during two active duty tours in Europe with frequent trips to the NL were exceptionally warm to me. I used to ride up to visit Dutch friends, and when the locals noted an American GI in the bar, I was drinking for free. Granted, this was generally in the border towns near Germany where most of the bitter fighting occurred, and there weren’t too many 19 year-old grunts there to blow off steam and wear out my welcome. Getting out to see the small towns that didn’t get many tourists (including Arnheim) probably helped, and the existence of massive, heartrending graveyards filled with the remains of American and British troops tucked into the little corners in these towns seemed to be a constant reminder of the price our forebears paid. I have never been treated better by randomly encountered people than I was in the Netherlands.
Rome Again
Yeah, it’s not like they need wedge issues to bring voters to the polls or anything.
Krista
Al – kind of a funny coincidence. It’s been awhile since I’ve heard from the Dutch family with whom we stayed. We wind up discussing the Dutch today on this thread. And guess what’s in my mailbox when I get home? Yup. A letter from them.
Freaky.
B. Minich, PI
I remember back in the day, good Republicans were told to ONLY buy gas from Citgo, because it came from Venizuela, not those evil OPEC countries like Saudi Arabia.
I never liked Citgo. Their gas stations and convience stores usually leave something to be desired. So I don’t buy from them unless I’m on the E in my car. I prefer Sheetz when I’m in the right area, and the Exxons around here are pretty good.
W.B. Reeves
Getting out to see the small towns that didn’t get many tourists (including Arnheim) probably helped, and the existence of massive, heartrending graveyards filled with the remains of American and British troops tucked into the little corners in these towns seemed to be a constant reminder of the price our forebears paid. I have never been treated better by randomly encountered people than I was in the Netherlands.
Thanks Al. I’d given up on ever agreeing with anything you wrote until I saw this. The Dutch are a remarkable people.
It’s largely forgotten now but the Dutch Resistance was one of the most effective in Nazi occupied Europe,instrumental in rescuing many a downed Allied bomber crew.
Once in Amsterdam I visited the Museum of the Resistance. There I learned that Amsterdam was the only European City to go on a general strike to oppose the deportation of its Jewish citizens. They managed to hold out against the Nazis for two days.
After that, the resistance went underground, engaging in espionage, sabotage and assassination. I saw a display in the Museum stating that perhaps the most substantial contribution to Allied victory was their success in denying the Third Reich the forced labor of 250,000 Dutch citizens. They accomplished this by the expedient of taking them all into hiding. This presented them with the problem of providing for a large number of fugitives. A task made arduous by the Nazi imposed rationing. The Dutch resolved this difficulty by staging armed raids on the agencies distributing ration cards. It was said that the staffs of these offices, Dutch civil servants, stood and applauded whenever the Resistance put in an appearance.
One of my favorite spots in Amsterdam is the Nordkirche. It’s the church whose bells are mentioned in The Diary of Anne Frank. A very affecting statue of the child authoress stands in the plaza beside it. At the opposite end of the plaza is a large raised triangle of pinkish stone. Known as the “Homo Memorial”, it is dedicated to the homosexuals who perished in the camps.
W.B. Reeves
Regarding “Red Yawn”, the mystery is how an otherwise more than competent film maker like Milius (Big Wednesday, The Wind and the Lion, Conan the Barbarian) could have stumbled so badly.
The whole movie boiled down to a wish fufillment fantasy wherein US teenagers get to play ersatz Viet Cong to the Cuban/Soviet interlopers. The invasion scenario was so absurd that I half expected Swayze to wake up up in his own bed exclaiming “Wow! It was all a dream!”
I don’t know exactly what I expected when I laid hard cash down for this turkey but considering the director I certainly wasn’t prepared for a warmed over serving of fifties paranoia. B movie great Ben Johnson and Harry Dean Stanton were wasted on this dreck.