In which post I reiterate my apparently-controversial position that Congressmen and women who break the law should go to jail. That includes William Jefferson (D-LA2) and, assuming that evidence supports an indictment, Cynthia McKinney (D-GA4).
Enough of this nonsense about activist DA’s – in my opinion the only activist District Attorney is a DA who sits on his thumb while powerful people get away with shit that I cannot. Real activist DA’s chase down the people in the middle, who unlike the big and powerful don’t have the resources for a big-budget defense or the connections to mount a political counterattack. If you want my opinion we could use a few hundred more like Fitzgerald and Spitzer and Earle who have the balls to hunt big game.
Somebody might convince me that we have gone too far when we start to see stuff like this:
Mona Sahlin got dumped as a shoo-in to become Sweden’s first woman prime minister when it was revealed that she had some outstanding parking tickets and had used a government credit card to buy diapers and some candy. The reason she had parking tickets was because as a loyal Social Democrat she had refused to use the limo she had a right to use as a cabinet minister. It gave the wrong impression to the “movement” so she used her own car. And since it is almost impossible to legally park in downtown Stockholm (part of the Social Democrats’ campaign to save the environment by making life Hell for motorists), she got tickets.
Then again, maybe not. Compared with what we have it seems worth a try.
***
BTW, anybody who wants to pretend that “The Left” was “silent” about McKinney should take it up with John Aravosis. That will give him a laugh.
KC
I get the feeling that McKinney is just one of those nuts who from time to time make it to Congress. Both sides have their share of those people, McKinney in probably the penultimate for Dems.
Pooh
How hard is it to put on a damn pin? It has nothing to do with you being either black or a woman, it has to do with you being stupid and confrontational. She’d fit in well here, come to think of it.
Zifnab
I’m honestly disgusted by a number of the old guard Democrats. Pelosi and Daschale are(were) both politicians that have sacrificed their own power and priviledge to preserve the system, waiting to take advantage of corrupt lobbying efforts when the political pendulum swings back their way.
The beautiful thing about the K-Street project was that it painted lobbiests all one color, making them much easier targets. When Republicans forbid lobbiests from giving money to Democrats, Dems get alot less gunshy around lobbying reform.
That said, the McKinney thing was just stupid.
Anderson
I don’t know that I really want to be represented by somebody who can’t handle themselves in a fight.
Whom can we pit against McKinney in the new Fox reality show …
Congressional Cage Match?
(Probably a good substitute for the current gerrymandered system. Winner takes the seat, loser takes defeat!)
KCinDC
I’m no fan of McKinney, but I do believe that the incident that got her into trouble likely would not have happened to a white male Republican member of Congress (because the guard would have recognized him) and if it had happened the misunderstanding certainly wouldn’t have been escalated to the level of filing charges against the member. It sounds like selective prosecution to me.
KC
KCinDC,
I’ll grant you that. Still, did she have to slug the guy?
Blue Neponset
How can you possibly know that the guard would have recognized a white male?
Pb
KC,
I’m nominally with McKinney here–some arrogant DC rent-a-cop tried to mess with her, she slugged him back. Good for her.
Meanwhile, here’s something to condemn:
Arrogant pricks. It’s not surprising that they’d do that, considering their track record here.
Jim Allen
It’s easy — short hair, suit and tie, white/pink skin.
Mr Furious
McKinney’s an asshole. She has refused to wear her pin for years. She was asking for this confrontation. In fact, it may be the reason she refuses to wear the pin—I wouldn’t put it past her.
I’m not saying this rises to the level of charges and jail, but she deserves plenty of scorn. Her constituents should be ashamed.
That’s right, Representative, I said you are an asshole. And, no, it’s not because you are black or a woman. It’s simply because you are an asshole.
Mr Furious
Jefferson can share a cell with Delay as far as I am concerned.
Brian
Not me. I’m gonna stay out of this one. (After this comment, of course.)
Pb
Mr Furious,
If only that were a crime.
Indeed; that’s also why they had her picture posted in their office, for years. Well, that, and–as Slate put it–“because officers are innately suspicious of a black woman with braided hair and gold shoes”.
John S.
SomeGuy…where are you now?
Perhaps trolling other blogs or frantically looking for help on RedState to backup your asinine assertion that Delay and McKinney are the same case or that those on the left want to attack Delay while giving McKinney a pass.
Perry Como
Katherine Harris.
Pb
Jean Schmidt.
KCinDC
Well, she says lots of other members don’t wear their pins. Are they being grabbed regularly?
KC, I don’t think she acknowledges “slugging” the guy, does she? I wasn’t there, so I don’t know what exactly happened.
gratefulcub
They dump a candidate for unpaid parking violations and embezzling diapers?
I guess they don’t tolerate corruption like we do.
LITBMueller
C’mon, GOP, is the best you guys got AGAIN? A woman gets mad at a cop and slaps him? You can see that every Saturday night between 8 and 9 PM – on COPS!
First, your party gets all in a huff about a guy getting caught receiving hummers from the staff, and then lying so his wife and kid wouldn’t find out…and now THIS?!??!? A slapping?!??!?
Puhleeeeeze…. Don’t make me laugh! If Dubya had done something like that, the Faithful would be running around defending him and claiming that it shows his manliness!!!!
Can we get back to the important stuff, now?
Krista
I’m suspicious of anybody who wears gold shoes.
From what I’m reading, it seems that both parties bear some responsibility here, and that they both have attitude problems. But, I have a sinking feeling that this issue will rapidly grow out of proportion and will quickly become tiresome.
Pb
Krista,
No, that’s how it started. We’re way past tiresome, getting past farce, and into derision now; exhaustion should be coming up soon after that.
W.B. Reeves
I think we’re already there. Don’t expect that to slow down the noise machine though. The whole purpose is to find something/anything that will divert public attention from the ongoing GOP train wreck.
ppGaz
the McKinney “wears her pin” thing is only relevant if we know what percentage of members regularly wear the pins, and what percentage of the time all non-pin-wearing members are stopped.
Without those facts, the whole “case” is nothing but smoke, I see no fire. I have no dog in the fight and know absolutely nothing about McKinney except that I’ve seen her picture in the last few days, and heard the story you’ve all heard.
Members and the security folks are adults, I am sure they can all work it out. Surely the mighty power of the Blogs is not needed here?
Par R
While a few on the Left, including a few of the usual suspects on this site, have rightly called Ms. McKinney on her actions, virtually none in the Democratic leadership positions have. Until the Democrats and their allies start condemning McKinney’s demagoguery and exploitation of racial tensions intended on distracting people from her status as an arrogant, egotistical idiot, we can’t take anything they say on such issues as security seriously.
Faux News
Sigh. This sort of stuff makes me long for the “War on Christmas” which sadly and abruptly ended after Three Kings Day. I’m still unsure which side won. The Christians or the ungodly Pagans/Secular Humanists?
Pb
Par R,
Hilarious.
P.S. Call Joe Lieberman, I’m sure he’d be happy to oblige.
capelza
Uh…have I missed this elsewhere, but speaking of indicted Congresspeople…Delay dropped out of his race? Perhaps it was my fevered condition, but please tell me this is true.
capelza
Never mind…I had missed it. Going to read now. Or bed, I’m not sure.
DougJ
Is the death penalty on the table for McKinney? We’re fighting a war here, a global war, which means that everyone everywhere is on the front lines. What she did is nothing short of treason.
Maybe the officer wasn’t hurt, but what if McKinney had been carrying anthrax or some other sort of WMD? She could have killed thousands of people.
Do we really want the smoking gun in this case to be a mushroom cloud?
Tim F.
See this post.
OCSteve
The question in my mind is why she was only “touched” on the shoulder. Once she passed around the metal detector, was not recognized, and failed to respond to the officer’s verbal commands – she should have been tackled and in handcuffs before she had any opportunity to strike the officer.
What most people seem to be overlooking here is that it was less than 8 years ago when a man bypassed the detectors and ended up killing 2 Capitol police officers in the US Capitol. If the second officer had not fatally wounded the gunman as he was wounded and dying himself, who knows how many more could have been killed that day.
After that incident (and of course 9/11) I would have hoped that security in federal buildings was a lot tighter than this. What is up with these pins that let congress critters bypass security? How hard could they be to acquire or replicate?
They had better security than this the last time I had to report for jury duty at the county courthouse.
McKinney’s behavior is asinine and obnoxious, but I think it also highlights (yet again) how little security at important facilities has improved in recent years.
KC
McKinney, as I said, strikes me as a little nutty. However, if this is true, I think Joe Barton ought to be ranked with the nutballs too.
neil
McKinney’s an asshole. She has refused to wear her pin for years.
This attitude frankly leaves me gobsmacked. What the fuck is she, a Member of Congress or a fast food cashier? Where in the Constitution say that Members must wear pins at all times? Is that before or after where it says that you’re not allowed to detain Members when Congress in session except for in cases of felony or breach of the peace? (Neither of which encompasses not wearing a pin.)
On the list of problems I have with our Representatives in Congress, fierce indepedence and devotion to principle is not in the top ten. Why are people jumping on her so hard for this when there’s so much more worthy bad behavior going on? Give me a thousand Democrats who are disrespectful of cops and please take the ones who voted for the bankruptcy bill, please!
Orogeny
Personally, I think the Dems should turn the tables and all vote in favor of the resolution to commend the Capitol police force for professionalism. McKinney’s actions were inexcusable. There have been plenty of times when I’ve agreed with her on issues, but her attitude, typified here by PB’s sneering “arrogant DC rent-a-cop” remark does nothing but hurt the Democrats and provide ammunition for the right.
Mr Furious
Neil-
Fine, if she doesn’t want to wear her pin, she can wait in line like everyone else.
I don’t think anybody would be jumping on McKinney over this if she hadn’t staged her histrionics.
Sow. Reap.
Krista
Santa won. Santa always wins.
John S.
Unitentional ironic POTD.
How many on the Right, including a few of the usual suspects on this site, have called [pick a Republican mired in scandal, corruption or incompetence] on their actions, let alone those in Republican leadership positions?
Just too funny.
fwiffo
Oh for fuck’s sake. When are we gonna get some fucking grown-ups in DC? When the Brits burned Washington in 1814 we should have just told them to just go ahead and go fucking Carthage on our asses.
One of the saddest moments of my life was after I graduated college and realized “the real world” was exactly like high-school.
Otto Man
McKinney is, was, and always will be a moron.
I was so happy when Atlanta area voters tossed her and Bob Barr out of office in the primaries in 2002. Sadly, while Barr has now become sane, McKinney is back in office and nuttier than ever.
neil
Fine, if she doesn’t want to wear her pin, she can wait in line like everyone else.
That’s not what it says in the Constitution. It doesn’t say that only Members who aren’t wearing their pins can be detained on their way to a Session.
Why don’t you have any respect for the rules?
DougJ
Santa wins because Santa stays the course. Santa doesn’t cut and run.
The Other Steve
All members of Congress should have an ‘L’ branded to their foreheads.
Fledermaus
But that’s understandable, the GOP leadership are all too busy dealing with their own scandals to bother decrying everyone else’s.
Pb
Orogeny,
I would too, if I thought they had acted professionally here–far from it. Whining babies, all around.
I calls ’em like I sees ’em–but I don’t recall sneering. Projecting, much?
Pb
OCSteve,
Now that would have been something to see–and something actually lawsuit-worthy as well.
What, it wasn’t a black female Congresswoman?
Incidentally, I remember reading some ace reportage (and torrid prose) about that recently–here’s a little contest, see how many sources this article plagiarises. When I looked, I found at least two, without much difficulty.
And don’t forget Bill Frist’s heroic efforts! In his shirtsleeves no less! Trauma specialist vs. unadulterated carnage! Sorry, I think that one Domenech article has soured me on the whole thing, which is sad.
Well, on that we can agree. However, our security situation has been that way for the past 6 years, and the politicians in power have shown no inclination or desire to want to change any of it (unless it’s possible to scapegoat some brown people–let’s hear it for immigration and Cynthia McKinney!).
jaime
I don’t get this whole pin thing. Is there some microchip in there? Is it made of 2.5k diamonds?
Any idiot can counterfeit a pin if they really wanted to. So I’m assuming the issue isn’t really about the pin. The “incident” happened off camera, so we have a he said – she said. This case will be dropped much to the chagrin of the right wing who is looking for ANYTHING that’ll distract from how much they suck.
don surber
F– the bloggers. AJC called for voters to kick McKinney out.
Duke got a prison term and if guilty: Ney, Jefferson, DeLay and the rest of the crew. It is not like the $150K a year they get is minimum wage
As for McKinney, I leave it to her electorate. It is not like she hurt the cop. Fine her
yet another jeff
Ya know, DougJ is right…Don Surber is an actual Conservative. Thank you, Don.
Orogeny
Oh come on, PB…
are you trying to say that when you called a member of the US Capitol Police, some of the most highly trained cops in the world (20 weeks of classroom training plus additional time working under a field training officer before they get an assignment) an “arrogant DC rent a cop” it wasn’t intended to be an insult? It was nothing but a denigration of a working man trying to do his job.
McKinney acted like a prima donna…too damned good to bother following the rules. The Cop didn’t recognize her and tried to stop her to find out for sure who she was. She refused to simply turn around and say, “I’m Representative McKinney.” Instead, she just kept walking, so the officer took hold of her arm. What would you have done in his position? Just thrown up you arms and turned away? If she felt she was treated unfairly, she should have complained to the officer’s superior. There is absolutely no excuse for her striking him. She’s an embarrassment to the Democratic party and her constituents.
jaime
This is the same DC police that took people out of the SOTU for wearing T-Shirts, and were ordered to pull Democrats out of a holding room that refused to vote on a bill they weren’t allowed to read thoroughly?
She’ll have her day in court and in the polls. But this is more “Hey Look!!!!! Shiny!!!!!!!” on the day Delay magically changed campaign money to defense fund money.
Davebo
Which is a change of pace for McKinney. She normally hauls a camera crew around when she’s trying to get the capital police to hassle her so they can document the atrocities.
The woman is a true flake. But a showman!
Pb
Orogeny,
We all have our opinions, based on past history–the job that the ‘US Capitol Police’ have done lately in this regard has left me underwhelmed, as I previously alluded to.
It is not his job to accost members of Congress; therefore, it was a denigration of a working man who was failing to do his job–which is quite appropriate.
Actually, she was following the rules, at least as well as most Congresscritters do. She didn’t even try to bribe the guy!
I’ll be keenly interested in the details your eyewitness account; in the meantime, here’s another one for you to peruse, sherlock:
I would have politely but firmly asked for her ID–which would have settled it.
And I believe that she did indeed talk to the officer’s superior. Pay attention, man.
Bullshit.
Zifnab
I thought they were supposed to get the bar-coded number on their forearms. You know, ***-666-***
Mr Furious
Perfectly summed up. If only this could be the last word…
neil
McKinney acted like a prima donna…too damned good to bother following the rules.
Wrong. The rule is that Members of Congress do not have to go through security. Any policeman attempting to stop a Member of Congress from entering their place of business is, in fact, the one who is breaking the rules.
I really don’t want to falsely accuse anyone of being a racist, but I can’t come up with a better explanation for why people are leaping to the ridiculous conclusion that she must have violated some rule or been insubordinate in some way. Or why they’re ladling contempt upon her for actually caring about issues of abuse of police power that affect her black constituents but, as someone who is rich and powerful as well as black, she could avoid if she wanted to.
She doesn’t want to. Why do you think she should?
Orogeny
PB, I have this image of you as Darrell with a goatee…the liberal Darrell from an alternate dimension.
Par R
“neil” -WANKER of the day, courtesy of atrios…
Orogeny
I was wondering how long it would be before somebody threw out the “R” word. Way to go, neil.
I love that “I don’t want to accuse anyone…but” line.
neil
You’re the one who is using racism to avoid actually addressing my argument. It has been noted.
Would you like to argue that race has nothing to do with this, or with people’s reactions? I am ready to listen.
Ed
Um, that is why there is a rule for congress members to wear an identifying pin, so security will know their status.
But again, how are they to know it is a member of Congress if they won’t follow the identification procedure? A security person is supposed to recognize every Representative and Senator?
Hitting a police officer will automatically get most people maced, handcuffed, and arrested. Racist? I am an old white guy, but if I hit a minority police officer I would expect and deserve rough treatment and arrest in response. My stupidity in hitting an officer could not be explained away by claims of racism, or any thing else.
Davebo
I have no idea if race had anything to do with it or not.
But neither do you.
Basically you are saying that the cop is lying. He said he asked her several times to stop and she didn’t. Given her past “trolling for the racist whitey” on capital hill, I tend to take the cops word for it.
Par R
neil says:
Actually, in order to skirt the electronic screening device, the rules require a member of Congress to wear an identifying lapel pin, something that Ms. McKinney did not do. The police are charged with protecting members of Congress, an assignment made more important since 9/11, as well as since the shooting at the House several years ago.
No, neil, the police followed the rules, Congresswoman McKinney did not. Instead she was her usual arrogant self, and when caught in her falsehoods, cries “racism,” a charge that you appear equally comfortable making without any basis in fact.
Orogeny
Just a damned minute, neil. Point out where anything I’ve said was racist. I think Tom Delay, Bill Frist and Rick Santorum are arrogant assholes as well. Do I hate white people, too?
It’s people like you who make it harder and harder to call oneself a liberal…you’re nothing but a mirror image of the jerks on the right who turn every comment they disagree with into an anti-christian issue. The only reason race is part of this discussion is because McKinney made it an issue.
If the cop wasn’t sure who she was, and with 435 reps, I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, so he asked her to identifiy herself. Is he supposed to simply let anyone pass??? C’mon, neil, if he didn’t know who she was, what else was he supposed to do? Why would you automatically assume that he did it because he wanted to hassle a black person?
neil
And since you brought it up, I really don’t want to accuse anybody of racism, and indeed, I try to avoid mentioning it when discussing this because people will never react well.
I’m not saying that anyone who criticizes Cynthia McKinney hates black people. I’m saying that racial bias is causing people to look at this case differently than they might otherwise have done. Maybe not you — maybe the person whose blog you read about the case on, though, and maybe his argument influenced you. Maybe you wouldn’t even have heard about it in the first place.
Not everyone who criticizes Cynthia McKinney is a racist. But everyone who discusses the issue, myself included, has had their thinking influenced indirectly by racial bias.
Does this explain how I can bring it up without accusing anyone of being a racist?
On a closely related note — I don’t have access to American cable news. Is the McKinney thing being covered more intensively than when Bill Janklow killed a motorcyclist while speeding? I certainly know that I have already seen more blog-screeds on how McKinney has demonstrated her scurrilous character by pushing a cop who was wrongly detaining her, than how Janklow demonstrated his by killing someone while driving recklessly.
Par R
I’m beginning to think that “neil” is a pseudonym for Oliver Willis.
neil
I think that was a racist comment, Par R.
neil
Well, Orogeny, I know you wouldn’t have called her a ‘prima donna’ if she wasn’t a woman, so you can’t exactly say that your criticism is based objectively on her deeds.
As for the race part, I told you what I think: The assumption that McKinney acted insubordinately is more plausible to people because she is black. I don’t know if you thought it up yourself, or if you read it somewhere else and found it plausible. I don’t know if you would have said the same thing about anyone else in this situation. But I do know that the first Congressperson I’ve ever heard you complain about is a black woman who you think didn’t know her place.
Blue Neponset
Neil,
If you can read Orogeny’s mind then tell us what his/her favorite flavor of ice cream is?
fwiffo
Now, I don’t think that’s necessarily true. I’ve personally use ‘prima donna’ to describe men before (e.g. “Axl Rose caused a riot in Montreal cause he’s such a friggin’ prima donna”). A lot of people used it (or similar language) to describe Dick Cheney when that thing came out about his need for a 68 degree hotel room with pre-made coffee, sprite, bottled water, TVs tuned to Fox news, etc.
neil
In fact, I firmly believe that the only reason any of us, myself included, are discussing this is because of race. There have been plenty of Members of Congress charged with assault that I’ve never commented about. Probably most of them you’ve never even heard of.
Don
Holy hell, how is anyone defending this woman’s actions? Putting aside the fact that she’s a nutbag (you can see her level of arrogance here when a cap policeman doesn’t recognize her from 20 paces as one of 535 congresscritters.) and ignoring the fact that the huge offense these people might have commited is NOT RECOGNIZING HER (oh, the horrors!) she HIT A COP.
Not one of us who ever pointed out the GOP’s insane lockstep behind moronic policy should open our mouths to defend bad behavior here.
neil
If you can read Orogeny’s mind then tell us what his/her favorite flavor of ice cream is?
Since I have never known Orogeny to eat ice cream, I couldn’t tell you. But if I read Orogeny posting a comment where s/he talked about loving chocolate ice cream, I could posit a guess.
neil
Don, it’s profoundly unfair for you to say that McKinney ‘hit’ the cop while saying the cop’s only offense was to ‘not recognize her’. All parties agree that the cop put his hands on McKinney first, which he should not have done.
Why, I wonder, are people so eager to believe the worst here?
Pb
Orogeny,
Well I have no idea what Darrell looks like, but other than that… I have a goatee, I’m fairly liberal on some issues, and I’ve always thought that Darrell sounded like he was from an alternate dimension, so… :)
Good call–I bet he was *really* harrassing her because of her strong Christian values. That poor woman!
Or, as she would surely tell you, he made it an issue by his actions.
Er, yeah, 435 reps… 67 women… 12 black women. He’s lucky it wasn’t a white man, there are literally hundreds of them in Congress!
Calmly ask her for identification.
Because that is in fact what he did?
HH
Except Tim, that Aravosis came down for a lot of criticism from his fellow lefty bloggers, most of which had more of a problem with Neal Boortz, who immediately apologized for inappropriate words, versus McKinney, who has yet to apologize for intentionally BREAKING THE LAW.
neil
Just to get out in front of this, I don’t think that the cop who stopped McKinney is a racist either. I think it’s pretty likely that he acted based in part on her appearance, but this hardly means he’s unfit to serve as an officer.
I do, however, think that McKinney has earned the prerogative to enter her place of work as she pleases, and I will not condemn her for choosing to exercise it.
The Other Steve
Ahh, the strawman, such a lovely way to make an argument drown in the bile of a toad.
Nobody is defending her. We’re simply pointing out it’s a non-issue, and the right is trying to make it into an issue by declaring everybody is defending her when they say “ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, wake me up when you have something important, thanks.”
I just think it’s pathetic that people are trying to politicize this, and playing the old Pharisee game of bringing the prostitute to Jesus.
orogeny
Pb,
I’m not even going to try to explain the right wing/christian persecution complex, left wing/racial persecution complex analogy…think about it real hard, I’m sure you’ll figure it out eventually.
So, in your alternate universe, every action that a cop takes against an black person automatically has racial connotations?
He asked her to stop and identify herself. She refused to stop…she ignored him.
Neil,
I’ve always felt that, in spite of it’s literal meaning, “prima donna”, like “drama queen” can be applied to anyone regardless of their gender.
The Other Steve
So we should probably seek the death penalty here, right?
Brian
orogeny,
As Other Steve demonstrates, they’ll talk you in circles here and never get to your point. When they do this, you know you’re onto something.
Bob In Pacifica
A little help here:
How many black women are in Congress?
Bob In Pacifica
Look, this is a story because Delay resigned. How could FOX spend time talking about the corrupt K Street crowd when there’s an uppity black woman to suppress?
Brian
orogeny,
This boob just proved my point mentioned above. When you’ve locked a case shut on this blog, the commenters come at you with circular logic or, in this case, something irrelevant altogether.
Brian
Euphemism for “hopeless retard”, in the case of McKinney.
Pb
orogeny,
Likewise, regarding when and when not to hunt the elusive wild Snark. Although I’m not convinced that you’d eventually figure it out.
No, but in the real Universe, you’re still a moron for coming up with that ludicrous speculative ‘conclusion’ out of whole cloth.
Like I said the first time, *calmly* ask for her identification. Pay attention.
Pb
Bob In Pacifica,
Already covered that one–twelve, or thirteen if you count delegates.
Brian
And if he calmly asked for it, as you prefer, but blocked her way a bit until she responded to his request, he’d be a JACKBOOTED NAZI PREVENTING THE FURHTER REVELATION OF RETHUGLIAN LIES.
Par R
For once I am in full agreement with Democratic House Leader Nancy Pelosi who said that she “….cannot think of any justification for hitting a police officer.” Also when asked when she had last spoken to Congresswoman McKinney, she replied, “I can’t remember.”
Stormy70
Um, McKinney is from a district that has to pay off white people for racial discrimination. The Black Librarians send memos stating there are too many white faces at the downtown branch, and the white librarians sue and win their case for millions. Her father blamed the J-E-W-S when she lost her race in 2002, and she is known for playing the race card every chance she gets. She is a loon, who does not deserve the defense some of you are attempting.
jaime
I don’t know how anyone could not have known who McKinney was, she’s the congresswoman that “looks like a ghetto slut”
How dare ANYONE mention race. They are the real racists. Republicans are absolutely colorblind.
Slide
I’m a partisan Democrat and proud liberal, and I can say quite easily say that Congresswoman McKinney’s behavior has been reprehensible. I don’t know which was worse, her arrogance in thinking the rules didn’t apply to her, her disrepsect for the law enforcement, or her playing the race card. Reprehensible all around. She is a disgrace and an embarassment to the Democratic party.
Now, that being said, I’m waiting for some of you partisan Republican conservatives to comment on the behavior of Congressman Tom Delay.
orogeny
Touchy little prick, aren’t you, Pb?
I’m always amazed at how the anonomity of the Web makes people feel that there are no boundaries, whether it’s Jeff Goldstein with his “cock-slapping” talk or Pb with his insults. You don’t know me, Pb, but I’d be willing to bet that if you were standing face to face with me having the same argument, you wouldn’t have the cojones to call me a moron.
Pogue mahone, Pb…I’m going home now.
Pb
orogeny,
And you’ve just proven how little you know about me–because if you were being that ignorant in person, and all I said was ‘moron’, I’d be being far too polite.
Par R
It looks as if orogeny was one more poor soul that came to this comment thread expecting informed reason only to find it filled with insult-comics…after a few more visits, he will probably feel like joining in, right Pb, you dumb little fuck.
Pb
Par R,
I don’t know why he would expect to get more than he put in, but whatever.
To be fair, there’s a lot to be said for insult-comics–at least they’re amusing.
Did you ever have a point, Par R, or do you just enjoy trying to see how much of a ridiculous offensive nonsensical idiotic hypocrite you can be in 50 words or less?
Now I’d appreciate it if you’d (a) substantially improve the proportion of ‘informed reason’ on this blog, and (b) save us all a lot of time by never posting here again. Cheers.
Par R
Pb, you are so ill-informed on virtually any and all subjects, as you have repeatedly demonstrated, that you are the one that should exit, you ignorant twat.
DougJ
I don’t usually share my musical efforts with others, but I thought you’d all enjoy this little number I put together with ppGaz, scs, and Par R.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o762HKxYMeA
fwiffo
Let me guess – you’re 6’5″, 240 pounds and you know karate? Man, nothing’s changed since the BBS days. You can always pick out the 13 year old chronic masterbators by their mega-tough talk in response to being called *gasp* a moron. It sure beats calling them a stupid-head while crying into your pillow.
For the record, I have no way of knowing if you are or are not a 13 year old chronic masterbator, but if the shoe fits… Maybe you just have small feet.
Man, every day it gets harder to tell the spoofers from the dipshits.
Par R
And which are you, fwiffo? spoofer or dipshit? My bet’s on the latter.
Oh, and DougJ, Mark Kilmer asks that you promptly stop using his site address. Otherwise, he may have to kick your moronic ass…or I think that’s what he said.
DougJ
I think Mark Kilmer is a spoofer, too. And a damned good one.
fwiffo
Hey, I’m just enjoying a nice relaxing evening by the fire. Got me some marshmallows to toast over this thread once it burns down to embers; if you bring the chocolate we can make smores.
You’re the one whining about the lack of “informed reason” while simultaneously throwing out such enlightened discourse as “dumb little fuck” and “ignorant twat”.
I know you can do better than that! Come on, use your creativity, man!. Instead of “moronic ass”, why not “semi-literate jizz-mopper” or “monkey-faced ass-clown.”
It’s really not hard if you try. I know you can do it!
Par R
DougJ, Mark appears to think you may be a “dipshit,” to use the word of fwiffo. And don’t you just know with absolute certainty that, with a name like “fwiffo,” he’s got to be poofter AND a dipshit.
Richard 23
Par R, thanks for trying to raise the level of discourse.
Bob In Pacifica
Brian, bite me. My point was that if your job is to recognize representatives, the guard probably should have been able to recognize the firebrand.
Pb, thanks. After I posted that I went to the Black Caucus website and I count about twelve, thirteen black women in Congress, too. It’s been seventeen years since I lobbied the Hill, but if I recall, there are several office buildings, so maybe not all women of color are in that one building. Whatever, as was said earlier, until you know how many representatives go through that gate, how many times each day, how many bypass security, how many don’t wear their badges, we don’t know the whole story. How hard did the guard grab her. How loud did he say stop? Did McKinney recognize him? Had she had trouble with the guy before? McKinney claims she’s had the same problem three times before. I wouldn’t have bashed the guy with my cellphone, but that’s me.
Prosecute her for slugging a security guard? You guarantee her reelection.
Of course, she’s great for Republicans who don’t want to sit in front of a TV camera and talk about Abramoff or Delay or the war. Or New Orleans. Or the deficit.
As for Stormy’s comment about her father blaming the Jews for her loss in 2002, she has been a supporter of a Palestinian homeland since the mid-1990s. She lost a lot of financial support over that stand which probably ended up backing her opponent. An indelicate thing for her father to say. He can go sit on a bench with Barbara Bush.
Par R
Your welcome, Richard 23. I felt it needed lifting in light of all the absurd and insulting remarks emanating from the likes of Pb, neil, jaime and the ever popular, fwiffo.
The Other Steve
Oh man, you got me! Yes, I’m making fun of you because secretly deep down it’s because I know you are right.
Now because I think you are a fig newton.
fwiffo
See, I knew you had it in you. Granted, not the most creative jab ever, but I think we can blame that on your lack of culture. You definately deserve a gold star for the effort.
Par R
fwiffo said:
Pretty weak there, fwiffo.
ppGaz
After a few days of Par R, who doubts that BIRDZILLA is truly a national treasure?
DougJ
Par R is a pretty good spoof. Boldfacing everyone’s name is a nice touch. I’m going to try that over at Protein Wisdom.
Otto Man
I think I speak for all the liberals here when I say that the conservative habit of creating their own ridiculous dumb librul straw men is just adorable. And incredibly, incredibly brave.
Most of us here have insisted she was an idiot. Keep arguing like this, and it’s clear you belong in her league.
jaime
Shorter Par R: “Waaaaaahhhhhh, my man-gina hurts wahhhhhh.”
Like you are actually interested in elevating the discourse. Us libruls are nothing but the treasonous pro-terrorist gay marrying abortionists to you and want nothing more than to take away all the high paying fruit picking jobs and give them to mexican drug dealers on welfare.
Give the meek wittwe wepuwibcan act a rest. You’ve got a long year ahead of defending the weak, helpless, minority Republican Right wing against the ferocious liberal atheists who control all.
Easter needs defending and its only a couple of weeks away.
HH
I’ve seen lots of blog posts from the left on this, and the overwhelming majority have criticized the Capitol Police or Neal Boortz before breathing a word about McKinney herself. Aravosis is the exception to the rule and he came down for a lot of criticism.
The Other Steve
I still find it rather ironic.
All this talk of McKinney, and the fruitloopy wingnuts are still focused on making political hay of here being stopped upon entering the Capitol.
Meanwhile, many of us on the left pointed out that she also apparently spent $1000 of tax payer dollars to bring some singer to her office opening, and how wrong that was.
Just kind of funny. To the wingnuts, misuse of government funds is a non-issue not worth pursuing. Apparently they’ve become so used to the graft they don’t even see it as a problem.
The Other Steve
Oh dear…
My guess is the wingnuts won’t be outraged about this one either.
This game is fun.
What’s worse? Shoving an officer… or pedophilia?
We report, you decide.
BumperStickerist
This is another area where Reality conspires against the Reality-based. The Capitol checkpoints aren’t for members of Congress only. If you go to the Capitol and visit, you’d find that lots of people who aren’t members of Congress, including black women, are in the building.
Almost all those black women aren’t Cynthia McKinney, btw. So, contra Bob-in-Pacifica, thinking of this only in terms of 435 Congress people is not very ‘reality-based’.
As for the White Congressmen w/o ID trope, consider that you’d only need the Member ID pin to bypass the security screening. Rep. McKinney would be free to put the pin on just prior to reaching the checkpoint and she could take the pin off the moment she walked past the guard.
Also, the guards are clearing other people through the checkpoint. It’s not like they’re just standing there.
What McKinney is not saying is that she’s seen white members walk through a checkpoint w/o ID, just that she’s seen white guys inside not wearing a pin.
Maybe, just maybe, they took the pin off once they got inside.
OCSteve
Well I am far from a “partisan Republican conservative” but I’ll take a whack at it…
What we need here is a good conspiracy theory. I mean, it has been hinted at (she was “set up”), but it needs to be fleshed out. So here goes…
Recall the Capital shooting almost 8 years ago. Where was the gunman finally stopped? Wait for it… It “ended with the wounded gunman captured in the office complex of House Majority Whip Tom DeLay (R-Tex.).”
So the Hammer, even way back then, knew that his day of reckoning would come for all his evil deeds. In preparation for that fateful day he decided to set the stage to create a media distraction.
Thus the Capital shooting. It’s a shame two good cops had to die, but anything for the cause right? Now, with the guard in Delay’s office dead, we don’t actually know who shot the gunman right? I mean it could have been someone else – trying to eliminate a co-conspirator. Botched that, because he didn’t die. Fallback position – he’s mentally ill, can’t really believe anything he says. In any case, the stage is then set for Capital police to potentially overreact in the future.
Now McKinney had been in the House since ’92 and already proven herself as a good future victum. Wearing slacks instead of a dress as Georgia House rules required back when she was in state government, calling the SCOTUS ruling that her district was an “an unconstitutional gerrymander” a “racially-discriminatory ruling”. Then she had the altercation with Capital police in 93 – Ah Ha! – a perfect victum for the coming media misdirection…
The plan almost fell apart when McKinney lost her seat in 02 due to her moonbat statements on 9/11. In 04 the Hammer had to work overtime, pulling strings across the capitol to get Zell Miller to retire, then convincing Majette to run for Miller’s seat. That opened the door for McKinney to get her seat in the House back. Whew, close one.
Fast forward 2 years… The Hammer knows his days as Dr. Evil are at an end. The day is here. Fortunately, years of planning are about to pay off. With one last act of evil he arranges for McKinney’s pin to be stolen – thus insuring the new altercation with Capital police. The trap is sprung! The VRWC media falls for it – focusing all their attention on McKinney, completely ignoring the Hammer’s fall from grace.
[/end_DU_spoof]
DougJ
OCSteve, shouldn’t you be sending pornographic materials to an underage girl somewhere?
DougJ
Par R is a spoof, Jaime.
OCSteve
Whoops – meant to credit Wikipedia for all historically accurate facts in the above Docudrama.
DougJ – lighten up dude – it was a joke.
OCSteve
DougJ – also, apparently you are confusing me with someone from DHS:
DHS – keeping you safe no matter what it takes…
DougJ
If this had happened under Clinton, an independent prosecutor would have been named, Rush would have talked about how the guy was really picking up underage girls for the lesbian Hillary, and David Broder would have cited this as further evidence that the Clintons had trashed the town of Washington. As it is, the response from the media seems to be a big yawn.
Par R
Hopefully, this minor creep from Homeland Security will receive what our justice system mandates for convictions of such terrible offenses. I recognize that outcome would create a conflict with the “punishment” accorded an even more serious abuse of minors by members of Congress, such as former Massachusetts Congressman Gary Studds.
Par R
That former Democratic Congressman’s first name should have been spelled as, “Gerry,” rather than “Gary.”
Don
The cop’s job is to control entry into the building and if someone doesn’t respond to his verbal requests it’s entirely appropriate for him to physically intervene. What you call ‘eager to believe the worst’ I call inclined to believe McKinney was dismissive of the security measures, and I think people have a very good reason to be so predisposed – because McKinney has a consistent history of grandstanding and making an issue of whether or not she’s immediately recognized.
I’ll admit the real problem here is this moronic policy that anyone is exempt from security. One of the worst incidents in recent memory happened when someone who had accompanied a state representative went a-blasting, something that should prove that we shouldn’t be making exceptions. McKinney and the other 534 should just have to leave for work a little earlier to allow time to get through the line, just as all the rest of us have to.
Then The Other Steve blatently lies:
.
I refer you, sir, to multiple posts by Pb. My statement is no strawman and he’s not a sockpuppet I set up to portray an insane extremist point – it’s all his own insanity.
McKinney and every other nutbag can go on and on how she should have been recognized. Even if it’s true – and it completely ignores the issues of employee turnover, assignment changes and some people just being better than others at recognizing people – it’s irrelevant. These guys cannot effectively have a checkpoint that anyone is free to breeze by because they think they should be able to, rightly or wrongly. If she goes by and someone doesn’t know who she is and they DON’T stop her you end up with an incident like this. That story isn’t an anomaly – other airports have been similarly evacuated when people made it past security without being vetted. Is McKinney’s ego worth that kind of nonsense?
Frank
Don- You said “Even if it’s true – and it completely ignores the issues of employee turnover, assignment changes and some people just being better than others at recognizing people – it’s irrelevant”
I say what part of the constitution don’t you get? If he can’t recognize congressmen and women he had no business in that job. They shouldn’t even consider hiring anyone who can’t memorize 435 faces before being allowed to impede anyone walking into the capitol building.
The Other Steve
Don, go over to the other thread.
It’s your turn to defend pedophilia.
Par R
Frank, as another commenter above noted, “The Capitol checkpoints aren’t for members of Congress only. If you go to the Capitol and visit, you’d find that lots of people who aren’t members of Congress, including black women, are in the building.” The number moving daily through the checkpoint numbers in the thousands. The issue is not as simple a matter as memorizing 435 faces; additionally, according to media reports, recognition of her from memory/experience would have become more difficult given that she had a substantially altered appearance (new hair and clothing styles) when she showed up at the security checkpoit last week.
You also make the rather absurd statement :
“I say what part of the constitution don’t you get?” This is, of course, a completely bogus argument, as the Constitution doesn’t prohibit the creation of various rules and regulatory requirements for such purposes as the establishment of “security procedures.”
Krista
Why do I have a feeling that your language would be a wee bit harsher if the perp had been a Dem?
You’ve called people on this site “dipshit” and “dumb little fuck” solely because they disagree with you, or have insulted you. And yet, Brian Doyle is a disgusting sexual predator of children, and the only epithet you direct towards him is “minor creep”?
You sir, are a hypocrite.
Par R
Sorry, Krista, but my words and language were sloppy. The word, “minor,” was intended to characterize his position in the Department of Homeland Security, NOT to his disgusting actions.
And as to the charge of hypocrisy, I believe that should more appropriately be levelled at the Left side of the blogosphere. Aside from John Aravosis and a few others, as well as a number of the leftys commenting on this site, that side of the political spectrum has been defending Congressman McKinney or silent on the whole issue.
fwiffo
Krista, In defense of Par R, his use of “dipshit” is co-option of language I used to describe him. He can only claim original authorship of “dumb little fuck”, “annoying twat”, “moronic ass” and “poofter”.
Par R
I see that I also owe fwiffo an apology, and I hereby withdraw the characterizations previously ascribed to him, and as acccurately reported by him in his preceding post. I should have merely observed that fwiffo was anyone of a large phylum of invertebrate animals. My apologies to the Captain.
Orogeny
fwiffo,
I’m 5’10”, 220 pounds, just had rotator cuff surgery and haven’t been in a fist fight in 25 years or more. My comment to Pb (somewhat poorly worded I admit) was not intended to imply that I’m such a badass that he wouldn’t have the cojones to insult me. People like Pb and you (the twiffos of the comments sections?) use the anonymity of the Web to allow yourselve to say things to people that you would never have the guts to say to ANYONE in daily conversation.
My guess is that in real life the mask you present to the world is nothing like the crude, obnoxious personality that you exhibit online, and I’d bet that this is true of most of the real jerks that inhabit the comments section of this and most other blogs.
I just can’t understand this thing where some folks think winning a debate revolves around who can scream “fuck you” louder.
fwiffo
Actually, Orogeny, I tend to be an obnoxious prick in real life too. “Moron” is hardly the worst thing I’ve said to a person’s face.
With some of the bizzare self-parody I’ve seen displayed in the blogosphere, I find it hard to imagine that more wingers aren’t called morons to their faces. I suspect that they also wear different masks in real life.
Ah, see this is where you’re running into trouble. You’re confusing “debates” with “flamewars”. It’s an honest mistake, since the distinction is subtle people here shift between the two without batting an eyelash.
It’s true that when it comes to internet flamewars, I do allow myself to be much more obnoxious than I would be otherwise. Just getting into the spirit, after all. It’s a long and cherished tradition in electronic communications. Calling for civility when a thread’s already degenerated into posturing and insults strikes me as a waste of breath. Why not jump in and blow off some steam?
John S.
Perhaps ParR, you could link us to the majority on the left that have been defending McKinney? Because obviously, apart from a few prominent liberal bloggers and the majority of posters on this site, you somehow think that the larger portion of the left side of the spectrum is in McKinney’s corner.
Since the anecdotal evidence here seems to indicate the contrary of what you are asserting, either put up or shut up.
Par R
John S., I’m sorry if you can’t understand the plain meaning of words. I said, “Aside from John Aravosis and a few others, as well as a number of the leftys commenting on this site, that side of the political spectrum has been defending Congressman McKinney or silent on the whole issue.” For some reason you chose to highlight only the first portion of what I wrote. I stand behind the two distict thoghts expressed in my original sentence….and there is ample objective evidence to support those statements.
John S.
ParR, I’m sorry you wirte with such vagueness and purposeful duplicity that you are able to both make ludicrous accusations while leaving yourself sufficient room to weasel out of them.
Nonetheless, you keep repeating your mantra of the left is defending Congressman McKinney or silent on the whole issue and then attempt to back it up with there is ample objective evidence to support those statements, and yet you provide none.
Before you start screeching about Google and my inability to research your vapid points, I suggest you realize that when you make such claims the burden of proof is on you.
So again, put up or shut up.
Don
Well, for starters I apparently I missed the part that says something about the right of politicians to bypass normal security checkpoints without ID or ignore the requests of law enforcement just because They Know They’re Right.
I DO seem to remember some claptrap about equal treatment under the law, due process, blah blah BLAH BLAH BLAH all of which seems to have been applied here. That cop could have been the most egregiously snide cockwrinkle every to walk the earth but he’s still completely blameless so long as he’s just doing his job and checking IDs.
What’s the worst possible interpretation of what he did? That he realized who she was yet demanded ID anyway? WOW, those crazy racists! What’s next, cops pulling over African-American drivers WHEN THEY COMMIT A TRAFFIC VIOLATION?
Every. single. person. who defends this nutbag’s actions and subsequent behavior harms the cause of those of us who’d like to see the corrupt and incompetent current crop of jackasses out of power. Print yourself a HI MY NAME IS Willie Horton name badge, you’re millstones around the neck of anyone who’d like to see some Democratic success in the next four years. They made political hay out of a DICKSUCKING for christ’s sake, you think they’re not willing to use an alleged cop-striking to gain ground?
If your sense of political advantage isn’t enough to get you to condemn this whacko, then why not consider how much it cheapens the trials of people who suffer real racial discrimination every day?
Par R
John S. says: “Since the anecdotal evidence here seems to indicate the contrary of what you are asserting…” Take your own fucking advice, fool. Where is all this evidence, anecdotal or otherwise? Put up or shut up!
The Other Steve
Josh Marshall puts the smack down on this stupidity.
Pb
Orogeny,
You’re still here?
More bullshit. And you, apparently, “use the anonymity of the Web” (ha!) to call people liars when–in fact–you don’t know a goddamned thing about them, a practice I find to be far more reprehensible.
Mu. I’d say I’m generally a nice guy, in person, and online. However, I do not suffer fools gladly, and you already stepped over that line. You started off on the wrong foot in your first post, and then you continued to dig the hole deeper whenever you got the chance.
You tell me.
Really? Then try actually debating for once. I didn’t see a salient point in that entire post. Practice what you preach, see where that gets you.
Par R
Orogeny, I see that the senior moron of this site has written you a little piece of his typical tripe and bullshit. To quote something I recently read in this very thread:
John S.
ParR, when you prove the ORIGINAL point you slung across this thread like a lump of shit hoping that it would stick to the wall, then I will certainly shower you with proof of my COUNTERPOINT, although Tim was kind enough to post at least one link that proves it for me.
Which is a lot more than can be said for you, who loves to string words together to form meaningless conjectures that have absolutely no merit absent solid evidence – which you have yet to provide one shred of.
I think many of the other posters are right – you’re little more than a spoof.
Par R
Personally, I think John S. is being a little hard on himself, particularly given that nobody reads his comments with the expectation of finding reasoned thought or logic. For example, his original comment that triggered this exchange, flowed from his assertion that there was some form of evidence that, contrary to my comment, suggested lefty blogs had criticized Ms. Mckinney. In his most recent post he “lays out” that evidence and it turns out to be the principal Left blogger (John Aravosis) that was referred to in Tim’s post! What an unintelligent moron!!
John S.
ParR, you lose. Your inability to cite even one shred of evidence that supports your claims followed your barrage of insults can only mean that you have ceded the point.
In the future, when you proclaim the moon is made of cheese and someone disagrees, the burden of proof is on you – not them.