I was in Sheetz just alittle bit a go, and I noticed that they had a sign up stating that ‘”Due to the rising price of gas, thefts haveincreased and we now require that you pre-pay for gasoline.”
I thought that was interesting on a number of levels, but most interesting was that it seems we are missing the usual wailing about the price of gas this summer. the gasoline here is$2.99 per gallon, which is expensive by US standards but still relatively cheap by international/European standards.
Pb
Gas prices have been relatively stable over the past three months or so, even though gas in the US is almost as expensive now as it has ever been. I think people have gotten used to the current price, more or less, not that they’re necessarily happy about the situation. But once it starts going up again, I’m sure you’ll start hearing more grumbling.
KC
I agree with Pb. I went to Lassen NP this weekend to do some camping. Though we filled up before leaving Sacramento, we had to put some more in just outside the park. When I paid $3.75 a gallon, I can tell you I sure grumbled. My $3.09 fillup before I left sure seemed like a nice price to me.
Punchy
Here goes that US/Europe false comparison again. Yes, it’s more expensive, but one of the reasons for it is to encourage public transpo, which Europe has in spades. To imply we shouldn’t cry about prices b/c they’re lower than Europe’s is a unfair statement; they don’t drive as much b/c they don’t have to, therefore they’re much more insulated from petro prices than Americans.
Shorter: Gas prices in Europe are made artifically high, and it works, b/c they drive less. The US isn’t built with that public transpo infrastructure, so naturally we’re more sensative to price, as we drive everywhere.
Tsulagi
With so many things screwed up and more in process, bitching about the price of gas just seems like a petty whine. Or on the positive side, maybe people figure shock and awe in Iran is just around another one of those corners so they’re enjoying the cheap $3 gas now.
Perry Como
Public transportation is for Commies. Real Patriots drive the Hummer 0 (it runs on spotted owls).
Mongo
Hi Punchy,
Another issue is the larger size of US vehicles and thus higher fuel consumption.
I’m from Australia, where fuel is usually 30% higher than in the USA (it’s currently ~$US4.50/gallon). We’ve got similar issues to the USA regards population density and public transport, however the average cars size is generally much smaller. Chicken and egg?
My wife and I drive a 1.4L Honda, which is fine for 2 adults and 2 kids. It’s always novel to go back to the USA to stay with my wife’s parents and borrow their monster Toyota Landcruiser.
Hate to sound too much of a smart-arse, but how can anyone reasonably be surprised that fuel prices have risen so much since 9/11?
Cheers!
RSA
No argument with the “it works because there’s public transportation to take up the slack,” but it’s easy to argue that gas prices in the U.S. are also made artificially high (via taxes at the federal and state levels), just not high enough to provide a reasonable alternative to driving everywhere. (And this completely ignores the externalities, or whatever they’re called, of our transportation system.)
In Europe it’s also common, if I remember correctly, to tax vehicles by their engine size, which puts more pressure on gas consumption. I was recently leafing through a Consumer Reports that reviewed a set of SUVs. Several of them had average gas mileage of 13mpg. 13! Just to drive a tall car! As the driver of a small car that has a few times been muscled off the road by inattentive big car/SUV drivers, I don’t have much sympathy.
Richard 23
On the bright side, sales of siphon hoses are up. And that’s good for the economy. I’ve got mine. Soon I’ll have yours!
Pb
Short answer: because the two events have little to do with each other. Fuel prices started their rise before 9/11, and actually they fell a great deal right after 9/11.
Vladi G
$2.99 is still pretty cheap. It’s $.20 more than that on the Indiana Turnpike, where it’s always cheap. In the Chicago suburbs, it’s about five cents more than that, and in the city, where I live, it’s about thirty five cents more than that. I always fill up in the suburbs after playing golf. Thank god for the “L”.
Krista
Makes sense. There’s also that North American “Bigger is Better” mentality that has resulted in these behemoth vehicles sitting in the driveways of 4,000 square foot homes. I bought a home plan book the other day, for shits and giggles. It was one that evidently had “America’s Most Popular” home plans. The average home was about 2,700 sq. ft. Anything under 2,000 was classified as “small”. That absolutely blew my mind. No wonder our energy consumption is so high…
Paul Wartenberg
A lot of it is just the whole damn apathy out there… you don’t see any street protests against a massively unpopular war, you don’t see protests against the failure of gov’t to perform oversight of administrative blunders, you don’t see rallies against the BushCheneyCo.’s open war against the Bill of Rights… And a good reason why there’s apathy is that noone in a position of authority can do anything about it (yet. C’mon, November! And for the Love of God get rid of those rigged Diebold machines!).
We’re waiting for either a) the gallon cost to break $4, or b) the oil execs to gain another chin from their gluttonous greed, whichever comes first.
The Other Steve
Yes, Europe has higher taxes largely to discourage consumption and promote public transportation. However the US has artificially low prices.
In the US, the gas taxes we pay only account for less than half the cost of actually maintaining and building the roads. The rest is covered out of the general fund income taxes.
There’s also a large amount of subsidies paid to the oil companies, in the form of tax breaks and defense dept policy. That one is harder to calculate.
The real cost is probably 50 cents to $1 higher than what we pay.
The Other Steve
Theory on gas price whining…
Watch how the prices go up… If it’s $3, it’ll go to $3.50, then come back to $3.25. Everybody whines when it hits $3.50, and then they are relieved when it comes back down to $3.25.
If you watch how gas prices move, that’s the trend.
I don’t know how they coordinate it, but the pattern is too obvious to not be by design.
Dave
You just NOW have to pre-pay for Gas?
Zifnab
I’ve noticed that as well. Prices tend to hover around the magic numbers – $1.49, $1.99, $2.49, $2.99 – that you typically see in a grocery store.
I don’t think people are accepting of the prices of gas, but I suspect they do feel helpless. In a capitalist society, we’re used to being able to just switch brands or stop buying a given product if its too much money. When there’s a monopoly on price setting and every oil company is squeezing consumers, people don’t know what to do.
I suspect that given a few more years and a few more price hikes, the stage will be set for some rather nasty populist reactions to the oil industry. All you need is one or two strong voices calling for nationalization of the petroleum industry. Watch how fast people leap on the idea. Give people an out, even a stupid out, and they’ll like it.
rachel
US gas prices aren’t nearly high enough yet.
Buck
I have become comfortably numb.
Mongo
Right Pb – sloppy language on my behalf. I was moreso trying to refer to the long-term increase that I expected as a result of a “hot” war in the Middle East and reinforced by the clusterf*** that was the invasion of Iraq.
From the charts: oil price low since ’87 was $US11.25/bbl in Nov 98, increased to $33.80 in Nov 00, dropped to $19.40 in Nov 01, and is now ~$74
Punchy
In America, we call that a lawnmower.
Damn that Cook County gas tax. It must add, like, $0.50 to every gallon. I’m guessing gas stations on the Cook side of the Cook–Dupage of Cook–Lake lines have zero biz…
Pb
Mongo,
Agreed, and doubly so regarding Iraq. Depending on who you listen to (and over what period you use), and adjusting for inflation, we may have already surpassed the record 1979 oil price spike–but this is no spike.
Remfin
Only if you ignore reality. Gas taxes in the US, except for a few states I believe, are fixed. The Fed and State are getting the same amount on a gallon they were getting in 1999, and yet the price has tripled – get that, the tax hasn’t changed one cent at least for me. Back when half the price of a gallon was tax maybe you could say that, but now it’s like 1/6th
Jeffery Faulk
I live in Northern California and the gas prices here are hovering around $3.29. I live about 13 miles from the nearest city (Ukiah) and there is no public transportation unless you count the two trips the bus makes every day. It’s more than a hardship for me. Unemployment is high in this area and I’ve been unemployed now for over two years. If it weren’t for aluminum cans, food stamps and the occasional under-the-table job I’d be homeless. It’s a great world that Bush is ushering in and unless we get off of our asses and vote his party out of office, it’s not going to get better. They’ll be coming for you next.
RSA
My only point was that saying European prices are artificially high is no different from saying U.S. prices are artificially high, in that the “artificial” part is due to taxes. I don’t personally think that gas prices are high here in the U.S. You get (waste aside) what you pay for, in terms of the tax part.
The Other Steve
gas taxes in the US are only high if you think roads are built and maintained for free by Santa’s elves looking for summer jobs.
The Other Steve
Lacking an open thread… I’m queering this one.
Cell Phone Picture Called Obstruction of Justice
RSA
Or if you think like this guy, who suggests a comparably plausible way around the issue.
Mr Furious
[lifted straight from my blog]
Here’s what I wrote in March 2005:
We’re loonnng past that now. This country has now gotten conditioned to $3 a gallon. In fact in my trip back East last week, I twice payed over $3.25. (NY, CT, MA and my native MI being the worst, OH and PA were both still under $3)
When President Bush took office, I think gas was about a buck and a quarter. It has now more than doubled—in fact, I’d be happy to pay double—and in some places I am sure they’ve tripled that number [Jeffrey upthread confimrs this].
Do you think a White house full of oil thugs and this (below) is mere coincidence?
Oh, and what is the quarterly profit record? $10.7 billion. Held by Exxon Mobil from last year’s 4th quarter.
While researching the price of gas from years past, I found this gem. Tom Delay moaning about gas prices going (gasp) over a dollar…
Those were the days, Tommy. Now we’re at the mercy of somebody else’s extortion scheme and it makes that look like a damn joke.
Mr Furious
Damn moderation.
Mr Furious
Oops. KC, not Jeffrey, paid $3.75.
Mr Furious
TOS, email that story straight to John (and Tim). It is worthy of it’s own thread.
Pb
I concur. Incidentally, what is so special about camera phones that they warrant their own laws now? Could I take pictures of police with a digital camera? A polaroid camera? A 35mm camera? Could I film them with a camcorder? A webcam? etc., etc.
RSA
I wonder if it’s the near-instant transmission capability, which would put web cams in the same category as cell phones with cameras–making them “worse”, even, because they transmit live video.
Punchy
TOS–nice story, but I don’t get it. At the end, it says this:
Are they denying they told him, or denying that it’s against the law to take the picture? If its the latter, that on what grounds was he arrested? WTF?
Perry Como
Or even a lighter cam. Here’s another story about it being illegal to video tape police. On your own property:
Pb
Did he have one of those security system stickers on his house? Man, I hope those cops never go into a 7-11 or a Dunkin’ Donuts, they’re in for a nasty shock.
Punchy
I’ve seen more bacon tipping back Slurpees than 8th graders at summer camp. I think when they draw straws for area to patrol, the first one gets the public pool, the second one gets the strip mall with the tanning spa and cosmetology school, and the third gets the 7-11 parking lot…
ding
Besides tax breaks, if you factor in the cost of military protection for oil-rich regions of the world, US cost for a gallon of gas exceeds what the Europeans are paying
RSA
A lighter cam? Cool for subversives everywhere. It even has a French name: l’espion S.