• Menu
  • Skip to primary navigation
  • Skip to main content
  • Skip to primary sidebar

Before Header

  • About Us
  • Lexicon
  • Contact Us
  • Our Store
  • ↑
  • ↓
  • ←
  • →

Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

The real work of an opposition party is to oppose.

Just because you believe it, that does not make it true.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

They want us to be overwhelmed and exhausted. Focus. Resist. Oppose.

The way to stop violence is to stop manufacturing the hatred that fuels it.

One way or another, he’s a liar.

When your entire life is steeped in white supremacy, equality feels like discrimination.

I swear, each month of 2025 will have its own history degree.

If you’re gonna whine, it’s time to resign!

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

America is going up in flames. The NYTimes fawns over MAGA celebrities. No longer a real newspaper.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

When we show up, we win.

Giving up is unforgivable.

People are complicated. Love is not.

Let’s bury these fuckers at the polls 2 years from now.

Books are my comfort food!

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

They think we are photo bombing their nice little lives.

People are weird.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

Mobile Menu

  • 4 Directions VA 2025 Raffle
  • 2025 Activism
  • Donate with Venmo, Zelle & PayPal
  • Site Feedback
  • War in Ukraine
  • Submit Photos to On the Road
  • Politics
  • On The Road
  • Open Threads
  • Topics
  • Authors
  • About Us
  • Contact Us
  • Lexicon
  • Our Store
  • Politics
  • Open Threads
  • 2025 Activism
  • Garden Chats
  • On The Road
  • Targeted Fundraising!
You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Difficult Questions Made Easy

Difficult Questions Made Easy

by Tim F|  August 23, 200612:14 pm| 22 Comments

This post is in: Domestic Politics

FacebookTweetEmail

It shames me a bit to have left the landmark ruling from District Court Judge Anna Diggs Taylor to a cursory first post with no follow-up. If the ruling is upheld on appeal the significance is practically unimaginable. The criminal ramifications alone make the Plame case look like kindergarten. So here goes.

Ad hominem attacks are the easiest blog because for the most part all that you have to do is point them out and they discredit themselves. Let’s catalog the predictable rightwing credibility smears – Carter appointee (Partisan Activist!), barely literate (Mentally Imbalanced!), wants to grant rights to terrorists (Aid and Comfort!) etc, plus a frivolous conflict-of-interest claim from the same people who set a stiff standard for the same accusation when a rightwing-friendly judge (Rehnquist) was in the crosshairs. Too bad justice Taylor is not Promoting a Book or a Disgruntled Ex-Employee.

For a while the legal questions seemed too weedy for me to have much useful to say. However in the last few days Glenn Greenwald, notorious rightwing bugbear and former civil litigator (read: relevant knowledge), clarified the issue to the point where I might be able to explain it without hurting myself. Initially even Greenwald had reservations about some aspects of the ruling:

This is not the most scholarly opinion ever. It has argumentative holes in it in several important places. But it is correct in its result and it is an enormous victory for the rule of law.

I assume that Greenwald had in mind the same concerns that were highlighted in critical posts by law professors Ann Althouse (also here) and Orin Kerr. Most importantly, the ruling declared undisputed questions that most people consider anything but settled. Many observers took that to mean that Judge Taylor had negligently bypassed important questions which would make an overturn by the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals practically automatic. In fact Greenwald points out in this important post that this line of criticism reveals a basic misunderstanding about civil litigation and the basic facts of ACLU v. NSA.

In a nutshell Greenwald points out that in civil litigation, if the plaintiff makes an argument which the defendant cannot or will not answer then the court is obligated to consider that point undisputed.

Unlike a law professor who searches out “the literature” in order to find every argument on an issue about which they opine, courts — especially District Court Judges — decide issues on the facts and arguments before them, i.e., those that are raised by the parties. If a party does not raise a certain legal defense, then the judge is under no obligation to address it (and it is arguably improper if she does). If a party fails to dispute a particular fact, then it is improper for the court to do anything other than treat the fact as undisputed.

Although a judge might go searching for legal arguments to consider if, for instance, there is a pro se litigant as part of the case, where, as here, the DoJ is before the court arguing in favor of presidential powers, the District Court has every right to assume that the issues raised by the DoJ are the ones that need to be addressed, and no others.

Put simply, it appears that the DOJ never offered any argument that the government did not break the law. Judge Taylor considered these points undisputed for the simple reason that nobody disputed them. Rather the DOJ argued first that the AUMF supercedes FISA, which Judge Taylor took time to swat down and which Hamdan suggests will be a sure loser when it reaches the Supreme Court. Second the DOJ argued that the president’s Article II powers cannot be restricted by Congress, which Judge Taylor also spent considerable time answering. Once again reflect for a minute on how conservatives have finally decided that America should be ruled not by a president but a king. The walls, man, they’re melting.

Beside those two arguments the DOJ apparently bet the farm on shutting down the case with a State Secrets claim. Perhaps the 6th Circuit, if it accepts the case, will hear the substantive arguments that the DOJ chose not to present in Judge Taylor’s court. But on the other hand if the government thought that it had a legally solid case then it seems sensible to present it before they have a humiliating loss under their belt. If the best they have to offer is what they have already presented then it seems unlikely that a sensible court will find enough wrong with Judge Taylor’s decision to overturn it.

FacebookTweetEmail
Previous Post: « A Thousand Flowers Bloomed On Mount Bushiana
Next Post: The IRR Call Up »

Reader Interactions

22Comments

  1. 1.

    John S.

    August 23, 2006 at 12:29 pm

    It will never stop to amaze me that conservatives have finally decided that America should be ruled not by a president but a king.

    That’s unfair, Tim.

    I don’t think it’s really a conscious decision. Conservatives are just trending towards their natural political evolution in becoming loyal Tories once again.

  2. 2.

    Pb

    August 23, 2006 at 12:30 pm

    It will never stop to amaze me that conservatives have finally decided that America should be ruled not by a president but a king.

    Well, as long as it’s *their* king, that is. I agree that is always stunning, but it is key to understanding Ann Althouse’s embarrassing NYT Op-Ed piece today:

    Laypeople consuming early news reports may well have thought, “What a courageous judge!” and “It’s a good thing someone finally said that the president is not above the law.” Look at that juicy quotation from Judge Taylor’s ruling: “There are no hereditary kings in America and no powers not created by the Constitution.”

    But this is sheer sophistry. The potential for the president to abuse his power has nothing to do with kings and heredity. (How much power do hereditary kings have these days, anyway?) And, indeed, the president is not claiming he has powers outside of the Constitution. He isn’t arguing that he’s above the law. He’s making an aggressive argument about the scope of his power under the law.

    It is a serious argument, and judges need to take it seriously. If they do not, we ought to wonder why a court gets to decide what the law is and not the president. After all, the president has a sworn duty to uphold the Constitution; he has his advisers, and they’ve concluded that the program is legal. Why should the judicial view prevail over the president’s?

    You heard it here first, folks. Why should the judiciary branch get to decide what the law is, and not the President? Let’s just let the President tell us what he thinks his powers are under the law! We didn’t really need that judiciary branch anyhow… and, you know, just because the President might decide that he has the power of a king, that doesn’t just make him a hereditary king. Yet.

  3. 3.

    Tim F.

    August 23, 2006 at 12:32 pm

    Of course the one sentence that I hoped to edit quietly gets quoted (pre-edit) by the first two comments. Viva blogging.

  4. 4.

    John S.

    August 23, 2006 at 12:37 pm

    just because the President might decide that he has the power of a king, that doesn’t just make him a hereditary king.

    Well, he is a hereditary president at the very least, so he is on his way.

  5. 5.

    Mona

    August 23, 2006 at 12:43 pm

    I so agree with Greenwald and am appalled at many of the criticisms lobbed at Judge Taylor — incluindg even Reason’s Jeff Taylor on the “king” put-down in her Opinion. Please pardon my shameless act of promoting my own post regarding this whole affair.

  6. 6.

    Tulkinghorn

    August 23, 2006 at 12:51 pm

    Hereditary or not, the source of Bush’s undisputed power to spy on non-Americans outside of the country is from the power of a sovereign. It was the King’s power, and as it does not intrude on the power of any US person and any state of the union, it is not restricted in any way by the constitution.

    He can act like a king all he wants to as far as spying outside the country is concerned. He is just not allowed to act like a king by spying on US persons (without a warrant, of course).

    The other level of the Bush-King George the XLIIIrd is the argument that the president is above the law, because he is the law/government/authority. This sort of authority was claimed by Nixon, for which he was rightly ridiculed. It has been recycled by Gonzales as the “co-equal branch of government gets to make a co-equal judgment of constitutionality” argument, which is rightly being ridiculed.

    James Madison lost that case more than 200 years ago!

  7. 7.

    VidaLoca

    August 23, 2006 at 12:52 pm

    Perhaps the 6th Circuit, if it accepts the case, will hear the substantive arguments that the DOJ chose not to present in Judge Taylor’s court.

    If you don’t mind a naive question from a non-lawyer: is it even possible for the DOJ to introduce arguments at the appeals court level that were not made at the district court level when the opportunity was available?

  8. 8.

    Punchy

    August 23, 2006 at 12:57 pm

    Glenn has been SOOOOO money on this ruling, his blog is absolutely unmatched for accuracy, insight, and bringing all this lawyerly stuff down to my level.

    IMO, who really cares if they trash this Judge. She’s done her part. It’s over, for her. The next step has already been decided. They can swiftboat her all they want, if it makes them feel any better, but she aint up for re-election.

  9. 9.

    The Other Steve

    August 23, 2006 at 12:59 pm

    It is a serious argument, and judges need to take it seriously. If they do not, we ought to wonder why a court gets to decide what the law is and not the president. After all, the president has a sworn duty to uphold the Constitution; he has his advisers, and they’ve concluded that the program is legal. Why should the judicial view prevail over the president’s?

    Wow that is embarassing.

  10. 10.

    Tulkinghorn

    August 23, 2006 at 1:00 pm

    If you don’t mind a naive question from a non-lawyer: is it even possible for the DOJ to introduce arguments at the appeals court level that were not made at the district court level when the opportunity was available?

    The answer is that arguments not made are treated as waived. If the Appeals Court wants to take up an issue they can choose to do so – although they are restrained from finding facts not in the record.

    Judicial Activism, you say? You betcha.

  11. 11.

    Pb

    August 23, 2006 at 1:02 pm

    Punchy,

    The swift-boating is about to get a whole lot sillier. Have you seen Judicial Watch’s latest attack on the judge? I just can’t wait until the wingnutosphere figures out the details that they *didn’t* mention…

  12. 12.

    Punchy

    August 23, 2006 at 1:12 pm

    Vida—

    Read this

    I think the body of the text covers what Timmay has said, but the comments, many from lawyers, are invaluable. The breadth of knowledge from many of the posters is incredible.

  13. 13.

    Punchy

    August 23, 2006 at 1:15 pm

    I just can’t wait until the wingnutosphere figures out the details that they didn’t mention…

    What chew talkin’ ’bout, Willis?

  14. 14.

    Mona

    August 23, 2006 at 1:23 pm

    Tulkinghorn writes: The answer is that arguments not made are treated as waived. If the Appeals Court wants to take up an issue they can choose to do so – although they are restrained from finding facts not in the record.

    That’s exactly right, and Jack Balkin(Professor of Constitutional Law and the First Amendment- Director of The Information Society Project at Yale Law School ) thinks Judge Taylor may have been “shoddy” like the proverbial clever fox,, my emphasis:

    Judge Taylor’s opinion did both of these things in her opinion. First, she raised as many claims on the merits as she could think of, even if her analysis skated over the surface and didn’t provide the best arguments for both sides. This puts the Justice Department in an interesting position. The DOJ takes the view that courts can’t possibly resolve the legal issues on the merits because state secrets are involved. But because of Judge Taylor’s scattershot approach, it will have to make arguments on appeal showing why her arguments are wrong on each issue; that will undercut its claim that the legal issues can’t be disposed of without revealing privileged information.
    Second, Judge Taylor found as a matter of fact that the secret materials she viewed ex parte don’t affect the resolution of the case, except for the data mining claim. If that is a pure question of fact, it is subject to the clearly erroneous standard. Of course, if it is a mixed question of law and fact– which I think it is– it is subject to more searching appellate review. But either way, Judge Taylor made factual findings that help the plaintiffs on appeal, even if her analysis of the merits is rejected. It may not be accidental, then, that Judge Taylor spent more time on the state secrets issue than she did on the merits. She may have reasoned that the 6th Circuit would do the merits over anyway, but as a trial court judge she could have the most effect on the procedural issues.
    ….
    Judge Taylor’s opinion isn’t really very good as a discussion of the merits. But district court judges know that this isn’t the only thing that matters.

  15. 15.

    neil

    August 23, 2006 at 1:23 pm

    Beside those two arguments the DOJ apparently bet the farm on shutting down the case with a State Secrets claim.

    Bet the farm? Well, they only do that on a ‘heads-I-win, tails-you-lose’ toss. They gamed the system to get one of two outcomes: victory on standing/secrecy, or else a total loss. Their unexpected legal strategy has produced an ‘odd’ and unexpected decision, a perfect pivot point to unleash barrels of slime on the judge who produced it.

    It’s unfortunate, because for Diggs Taylor to reach the ‘correct’ outcome in this case, as far as the slimers are concerned, she’d have had to exhibit some terrible judicial bias, by making the prosecution’s arguments for them — that is, by making sure that the case ‘comes out right’ even though the arguments favored one side.

  16. 16.

    Andrew

    August 23, 2006 at 1:47 pm

    The criminal ramifications alone make the Plame case look like kindergarten.

    If Plame alone was bad, then this must be at least as bad as Snakes on a Plame.

  17. 17.

    Mac Buckets

    August 23, 2006 at 2:14 pm

    Mona Says:

    I so agree with Greenwald

    NO WAY! What do Ellers, Ellensberg, Ellison, and Lambchop think?

  18. 18.

    Tim F.

    August 23, 2006 at 2:18 pm

    Mac,

    She’s a blogger, nimrod.

    Mona,

    Link your blog to your commenting name so people know that you’re a blogger.

  19. 19.

    Mona

    August 23, 2006 at 2:25 pm

    Link your blog to your commenting name so people know that you’re a blogger.

    Oh yeah. Sorry, Jon Henke and the rest of us only got started with this for real about amonth ago, and I’m not quite used to the “I’m a blogger now” thingie.

  20. 20.

    Kirk Spencer

    August 23, 2006 at 3:39 pm

    I think the biggest gamble the DOJ took is their decision not to respond. The judge gave them three opportunities to include an opportunity for an oral rebuttal – in other words, well beyond what was required.

    So they’re gambling the sixth will choose to hear it as though newly presented – blank slate, start from scratch, etc.

    That’s what I’m waiting to see – how the sixth chooses to hear the appeal. If it’s de novo, the appeals court is probably going to support the government’s position. If it’s on the record, it’ll be the government appealing further to the supreme court.

    Oh – one twist. I would be unsurprised to see an en banc court, whether as first appeal or as a review of the decision.

  21. 21.

    slickdpdx

    August 23, 2006 at 3:40 pm

    Nice post. Seriously.

  22. 22.

    John S.

    August 23, 2006 at 4:56 pm

    She’s a blogger, nimrod.

    And from what I gather, a libertarian, and certainly not a liberal one at that. Sadly, there went Mac’s entire take down of Mona’s comments.

Comments are closed.

Primary Sidebar

On The Road - lashonharangue - Along the Zambezi River [2 of 2] 4
Image by lashonharangue (12/10/25)

2026 Pets of Balloon Juice Calendar

PLEASE REVIEW YOUR INFO ASAP

Recent Comments

  • trollhattan on Open Thread: Trump’s “Affordability” Tour Is Off to A… Start (Dec 10, 2025 @ 6:10pm)
  • Scout211 on Open Thread: Trump’s “Affordability” Tour Is Off to A… Start (Dec 10, 2025 @ 6:10pm)
  • Ten Bears on Open Thread: Trump’s “Affordability” Tour Is Off to A… Start (Dec 10, 2025 @ 6:08pm)
  • Miss Bianca on Open Thread: Trump’s “Affordability” Tour Is Off to A… Start (Dec 10, 2025 @ 6:08pm)
  • rikyrah on Open Thread: Trump’s “Affordability” Tour Is Off to A… Start (Dec 10, 2025 @ 6:07pm)

Balloon Juice Posts

View by Topic
View by Author
View by Month & Year
View by Past Author

Featuring

Medium Cool
Artists in Our Midst
Authors in Our Midst
On Artificial Intelligence (7-part series)

🎈Keep Balloon Juice Ad Free

Become a Balloon Juice Patreon
Donate with Venmo, Zelle or PayPal

Calling All Jackals

Site Feedback
Nominate a Rotating Tag
Submit Photos to On the Road
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Links)
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Posts)
Fix Nyms with Apostrophes

Balloon Juice Mailing List Signup

Social Media

Balloon Juice
WaterGirl
TaMara
John Cole
DougJ (aka NYT Pitchbot)
Betty Cracker
Tom Levenson
David Anderson
Major Major Major Major
DougJ NYT Pitchbot
mistermix
Rose Judson (podcast)

Site Footer

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

  • Facebook
  • RSS
  • Twitter
  • YouTube
  • Comment Policy
  • Our Authors
  • Blogroll
  • Our Artists
  • Privacy Policy

Privacy Manager

Copyright © 2025 Dev Balloon Juice · All Rights Reserved · Powered by BizBudding Inc

Share this ArticleLike this article? Email it to a friend!

Email sent!