Welcome Ace of Spades, the Commissar and the folks at Hot Air to the Coalition of the Shrilling.
What moved them to get their shrill on:
U.S. Senate majority leader calls for efforts to bring Taliban into Afghan government
U.S. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist said Monday that the Afghan guerrilla war can never be won militarily and called for efforts to bring the Taliban and their supporters into the Afghan government.
The Tennessee Republican said he had learned from briefings that Taliban fighters were too numerous and had too much popular support to be defeated by military means.
“You need to bring them into a more transparent type of government,” Frist said during a brief visit to a U.S. and Romanian military base in the southern Taliban stronghold of Qalat. “And if that’s accomplished we’ll be successful.”
[…] Frist, who said he would announce whether he would run for the U.S. presidency in about a month, said he had hoped that the United States would be able to withdraw its forces from Afghanistan soon. But the 20,000 U.S. troops are still needed to help the 37-country coalition deal with an intensifying Taliban insurgency.
How do you reconcile reconcile a statement like that with Frist’s plans to seek the GOP nomination? Not only is it nearly impossible to imagine a better way to negate the Republicans’ primary and only electoral advantage at the moment, but it is simply one hindred and eighty degrees wrong. Most of the sensible people whom I have met think that we should pull most of our forces in Iraq, since no effort in the world will fix that mess, and put some of those into Afghanistan so that we can give at least one fo our wars the attention that it deserves. The calculus here simply baffles me.
***Update***
I see that John got there first, but I also see that John forgot Poland. Call it a tie.
***Update 2***
In comments The Commisar corrects my misunderstanding that his conversion has anything to do with the Frist story that I listed here but rather from the bungled operation in Iraq. My misunderstanding came from the context of the Hot Air post that I linked here.
kchiker
Mr. Soros??? Are you listening??? Wonder what it would do for the midterm results if we had a media blitz on that fact alone.
“A Republican vote is a vote for the TALIBAN”
I’d write a check to any Democratic organization that put that ad up. Immediately.
DougJ
At least Frist is admitting that there is a huge problem in Afghanistan. I give him credit for that.
Keith
So the “adapt and win” encompasses the strategy “if you can’t beat ’em, join ’em”?!??! I guess I should be surprised he didn’t just spout a bunch of disjointed talking points like usual, but DAMN!
Andrew
I think that the only way for these people to make up for their past support of Frist et al. is to offer up one of their 16 year old sons to have page sex with Fmr. Rep. Foley.
srv
Frist thinks he needs a little moderation to be a serious 2008 candidate? Who does he think he’s running against, Osama?
srv
Oh, wait a second. Is this a video tape diagnosis by Frist, or did he actually visit Mullah Omar?
Eural
Words simply fail me at this point.
BlogReeder
I don’t understand the by-line:
Is Frist in Afghanistan? So how did he attach the rider on the Port security bill?
Steve
BlogReeder
Steve, I’m just trying to find the story of him going to Afghanistan. I always try to double check the AP. (you know highly suspicious and all)
kb
I’m just trying to find the story of him going to Afghanistan.
http://frist.senate.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=2627
Steve
Well, I tried here.
Tim F.
Blogreeder, you have to be pretty far gone to think that the AP simply made this story up. Among other things, the story is currently running in numerous major American papers and the AP has been reporting on Frist in Afghanistan for several days. I know that you mean well, but try too meet reality halfway.
David
Apparently what he said, or says he said, is that we have to “assimilate people who call themselves Taliban into a larger, more representative government,” i.e. win over the Taliban’s supporters to the side of the good guys instead of just killing them all. This strikes me as much more defensible, if just as likely to get him flayed by the 101st Keyboarders.
Pb
An obvious forgery–the fonts and the kerning are totally off!
BlogReeder
I’ve read things in the AP that are …stretched… Unlike you, I like reporting that I can feel is balanced. Bad side, good side, I decide. This story seems too outlandish right now. And the bit about in numerous major American papers, most of them say AP. I just don’t remember reading that he was going to Afghanistan because of the stupid rider he put on the port security bill.
BlogReeder
AP has been reporting on Frist in Afghanistan for several days.
October 2nd is several days ago?
Tsulagi
Well, I’m going to have to stop on the way home to get some extra popcorn and Scotch to enjoy watching this continuing train wreck.
Ooooo…if only some “friendly” emails surfaced from Bushy to pages, that would be the double tap.
Steve
In case it was unclear, my link above – the one that says “Frist, Martinez Visit Afghanistan” – goes to the front page of BILL FRIST’S OWN WEBSITE.
Can we put an end to the paranoid speculation about the AP now?
John S.
Me too.
If at least two of the following: FOX News, Washington Times and Drudge Report don’t corroborate, then it must be considered bullshit.
Tim F.
Look bro, you seem to have a major problem with the difference between slanted reporting and completely making shit up. You can argue that the AP selectively quoted Frist, or left out important context, or failed to interview significant people who would change the meaning of his statements. But you cannot simply accuse a major outlet of fabricating a story from scratch just because you don’t like the story. Something ilke that would spell the end of that reporter’s career and a scandal from which the AP would struggle to recover. Even FOX News doesn’t do that. Think about what you are alleging before you stake any credibility on it.
Like I said, you have to at least try to meet reality halfway.
John S.
Frist is a RINO and on his way out of office, so you can’t trust anything he says.
More sources, please.
The Commissar
Tim,
Thanks for the link and the mention.
For the record, my decision has nothing to do with Frist. Nor with Foley-gate. For me, it’s all about Iraq, the bungling there, and the bad effect it’s had on our security.
PeterJ
I hope you stay away from FOX News…
I would love to see some “balanced bad side/good side” reporting on 9/11 or the Holocaust.
On the other hand did FOX News ever do a segement on how to make a killing on the stock market after 9/11? I know they did it after Katrina…
tBone
Where’s scs? You two should get along really well.
t. jasper parnell
The real irony, if that is the word I want, would be if Frist were correct in this diagnosis. Of course, “taming” the radicals by forcing them to govern has been tried and has failed miserably in the past. Still.
Keith
http://mediamatters.org/items/200410040006
Tim F.
OK I stand corrected. FOX News does do that, which is why no credible news organization will run with a story if it comes solely from FOX News.
scarshapedstar
Tell ya what.
I’m behind Frist 100%. He should say this day in and day out until the election. I’ll fund the ads myself. I’m a Republican effective now.
Zifnab
And George Allen is once again back in the running for the Republican Presidential Nomination. Ye-haw.
Rudi
Anybody old enough to remember Govenor Romney’s Vietnam gaffe. OMG the enemy has captured Frist “I can diagnose from a video” and BRAINWASHED him. These evil Islamo-Stooges will stoop to anything to hate our freedoms…
DougJ
We’re surrendering to them over there so we don’t have to surrender to them over here.
capelza
Rudi…wow, I haven’t thought about Romney in decades. Remind me please what his gaffe was.
chopper
precisely. it’s airtight.
chopper
or darfur.
“next up, the leader of the janjaweed militia responds to the allegations of murder against him and his crew by american liberals”
Richard 23
Blogreeder on the AP and balanced and he decides. Can we keep the discussion on planet Earth, please?
Fledermaus
Well Bush did promise to be a uniter and not a divider.
srv
Gold, baby!
harrison
AP story did, in fact, turn out to be crap, but by all means rave on.
tBone
Frist backpedals, claims he was quoted out of context. Shock!
clb72
Well all credit to you Republican voters for realizing the error of your ways. Turn back from the dark side! Vote Democrat in 2006!
Andrew
Oh, okay. It’s totally cool to surrender to Taliban supporters, just not the Taliban.
Do they have special badges or something to distinguish themselves?
CaseyL
I’m sorry, but I must be missing something here.
Did Frist have any credibility left before the AP story?
So the man spouts off and says something bone-headedly stupid.
How is that different from most anything else he’s ever said?
Demdude
His gaffe: Here
His son is Mitt Romney.
Eural
So harrison how do you explain the fact that in the same month the President endorsed a deal in Pakistan which gives the Taliban a safe haven and Frist acknowledges we’re just going to have to get along with them (oh, excuse me, just their supporters!).
The killers of 3000 Americans are still free, our President wants to give them safe haven, Frist wants to negotiate with them meanwhile over 20,000 US soldiers are casulties because of the crapfest they’ve created through their mind-numbing incomptence in Iraq.
My God this administration is FUBAR.
If thats too much to think about go frag a page-boy to settle down. Don’t worry, the party will cover for you….
The Other Steve
LOL! NRO has their take here.
It’s kind of funny. They get all insulted, then some military officer wrote in and gave them the Liberal perspective on fighting an insurgency, and now they’re like backing off.
The end goal is the question. If it’s to cut off support for the Taliban, then we need to find out why they have support and counter it. But if what we are talking about here is allowing the Taliban back into the government so that they can reopen the Ministry of Truth and Justice and start chopping off the heads of women who don’t wear a burka, then I say no compromise.
But if it’s a question of the Taliban gaining support because of disgruntlement of poppy farmers having their crops destroyed, or lack of food. Well seems to me like we have some options there.
Andrew
harrison was thankful 9/11 because it gave his dream of killing brown people a smokescreen of moral legitimacy.
How’s that bloodlust working out for ya, harrison?
The Other Steve
You know, that would actually be an intelligent point…
If you weren’t so reliant upon newsmax.com, Moonie Times, WorldNetDaily and townhall for your news.
Rudi
Cap,
Romney went over to Vietnam in 68 as a possible POTUS candidate. Id have to Google for all the details, but he claims,the US Generals or somebody else, brainwashed him into his support for the Vietnam War. After his brainwashing claim he was laughed out of the 68 race.
BarneyG2000
Frist said that he was misquoted. He does not want to surrender to the Taliban, just capitulate to the Taliban supporters.
That is sooo much better!!!
Bruce Moomaw
Frist, in the original quote that set off the fireworks, IS quoted as saying that Afghanistan needs to “assimilate people who call themselves Taliban into a larger, more representative government.” He could thus very well have meant “people who CURRENTLY call themselves Taliban” — that is, try to lure such potential Taliban recruits back to a non-Taliban government.
However, he’s also quoted as saying that it’s impossible to win the Afghan war “militarily”. If he’s saying that it’s impossible to win it JUST “militarily”, he would of course be right about that too. The real question is whether he was saying that we should simply shrug in Afghanistan, hand over power in that state to a coalition with a very large Taliban faction strongly influencing its policies, and focus all our military efforts instead in Iraq. If he WAS saying that, he is inded a fool. If he was making those less extreme statements that are a plausible alternative interpretation (from what we know now), he’s much more defensible. So — as with the current fight over whether Rice or Tenet is lying through her/his teeth about the nature of the July 10 meeting — I’m in a holding pattern on this one for the moment.
One thing I’m NOT in a holding pattern about is my continuing firm confidence that Ace of Spades is a drooling cretin. Let us take a stroll back to July 13, on which day Jack Balkin and Andrew Sullivan reprinted the official description of two torture techniques:
“Long Time Standing: This technique is described as among the most effective. Prisoners are forced to stand, handcuffed and with their feet shackled to an eye bolt in the floor for more than 40 hours. Exhaustion and sleep deprivation are effective in yielding confessions.
“The Cold Cell: The prisoner is left to stand naked in a cell kept near 50 degrees. Throughout the time in the cell the prisoner is doused with cold water.”
…and Ace’s response was to announce that “Andrew Sullivan’s e’er-palpitating heart is all a-twitter over the Bush Administration’s desire to continue using two forms of ‘torture’ — making people stand for a long time, and keeping them in an unpleasantly cold cell.” (Needless to say, he didn’t bother to look up any of the easily available descriptions of frequently life-threatening hypothermia induced by the Cold Cell technique.)
So, John and Tim: I’d crawfish off from this particular new alliance if I were you. You’re allying with Hitler because he’s opposed to Stalin.
Sirkowski
Ace’s blog isn’t loading. The Jihad got to him.
Bruce Moomaw
Either that, or he’s spilled his very last remaining marble. (Incidentally, I forgot to mention his follow-up line about Sullivan in that July 13 entry: “I’m just curious. Where does Conniption Boy stand on
US prisons’ use of the ‘hot box’ for punishing violent inmates?” I confess that I’ll be interested in seeing the reaction of John — aka Conniption Boy II — to this.)
Zifnab
Gee, golly. When cast in the more benevolent light it sounds like the same policy a number of Democratic Congressmen and ex-Generals were proposing we do about five years ago. But those Generals and Democrats were run out of office for wanting to “plan ahead” and “resort to non-military solutions” and “prepare an exit strategy” because if the solution doesn’t involve a 500lb bunker buster, it probably means you’re a pussy.
Assuming Frist isn’t ready to just kick over Afganistan to the Taliban (something I honestly think a few neo-cons would love to do, so they could free up the rest of their forces for Iran) he’s making the slow shameful walk-back to the position sane and educated experts were saying from the very start. If that’s the case, let him eat hell. The same slavering knuckling-dragging keyboard commandos who rallied behind the Republican military blunder that is the Middle East five years ago should go right on ahead and devour their own. It’s nice to see the piranha gnawing on each other for once.
Bruce Moomaw
Oh, I’m not defending the GOP for taking as long to discover the obvious about Afghanistan as the Vatican took to admit that Galileo was right. What I’m doing is cautioning John and Tim about climbing in bed with anthropoids like Ace who jump to ridiculously premature conclusions about what Frist was really saying. With new friends like these, we don’t need enemies.
Richard Bottoms
So the Washington Times wants Dennis Hastert to step down (good so far) and to be replaced with… Henry “the adulterer” Hyde.
So if you are still a Republican at this point, do you laugh or cry?
Me, I’m laughing. A lot.
capelza
Thanks Rudi and Demdude…boy, that’s was a million light years ago. I was 12 or so…but 1968, a couple of assasinations, Humphrey, McCarthy, the protests, the war on TV at dinner…Johnson..and Nixon and his “peace with honour”. Who could have believed that fucking war would go on for four more years.
Yeah, I vaguely remember Romney.
CaseyL
Wait: who’s left as a likely 2008 Presidential contender?
Frist has been a joke since Schiavo. Allen’s self-destructed (even if his constituency doesn’t mind racism, they probably do mind stupidity in countering charges of racism). McCain’s “maverick” luster has been, ah, detained, harshly interrogated, and then waterboarded. Perry’s a non-entity who’s rumored to have marital difficulties.
That leaves, who, Giuliani? Who’s too liberal-ish, gay-friendly, and hardly a poster child for Strong Marriage to make it though the primaries. Though that’s the “conventional wisdom,” which near as I can tell is always wrong.
Are there any Republicans left hereabouts? Who do they think has a chance in ’08?
I’m not a huge Hillary fan by any means, but who among the likely crop of GPO candidates has her name recognition and star power?
CaseyL
Aw, hell.
That should be GOP, of course (Grand Pederast Party), not GPO (General Postal Delivery?).
Matt
The odd thing is, Frist actually is making some sense. I mean, if you first assume that the remains of the Taliban are a serious impediment to functional government and peace in Afghanistan, and second assume that it’s not, for whatever reason, possible to simply eliminate them militarily, then the only alternative to a complete withdrawl or bloody stalemate is to try to integrate them into the government.
Steve
Well sure. And if you assume that it’s not, for whatever reason, possible to eliminate the insurgency in Iraq militarily… then you’re a traitor! A cut-and-run, America-hating, loather of the troops and traitor!
Thus I’m less inclined to simply give Frist the benefit of the doubt here. If he wants to tell me that we can’t possibly win militarily in Afghanistan, then he has to prove his case, and tell me why it’s not simply a case of the Republican Party making Iraq more of a priority than Afghanistan.
Steve
Well sure. And if you assume that it’s not, for whatever reason, possible to eliminate the insurgency in Iraq militarily… then you’re a traitor! A cut-and-run, America-hating, loather of the troops and traitor!
Thus I’m less inclined to simply give Frist the benefit of the doubt here. If he wants to tell me that we can’t possibly win militarily in Afghanistan, then he has to prove his case, and tell me why it’s not simply a case of the Republican Party making Iraq more of a priority than Afghanistan.
Steve
That post was so nice, I made it twice. I’m surprised I didn’t disagree with myself the second time.
John S.
According to Capt. Ed and a furiously backpeddling Frist.
That’s enough for me!
SeesThroughIt
Condi. Seriously. WIngnut bloggers loooooove them some Condi and honestly think she has what it takes to win it all. Though to be fair, I haven’t seen much of an outpouring of Condi-love recently.
DougJ
It won’t be Condi. When we have our first black lesbian president, it will be someone with better teeth. Maybe Tracy Chapman.
The Republican nominee will be Romney or McCain.
DougJ
What if we let Taliban supporters into our own government. They’re values voters, probably pretty tough on crime, and certainly anti-gay marriage. They seem like the kind of guys who would stay the course no matter what the press is reporting. Granted, that course would involve replacing the constitution with laws based on extremist religious thought. But we’re headed that direction anyway. I’ll tell you one thing — they’re not going to stand for any gay pedophiles.
Pb
Also, they’re actually serious about that ‘War On Drugs’ thing. I think “American Taliban” is an insult to the Taliban–the Taliban was at least halfway competent at what they did.
Andrew
How are their fiscal policies?
Zifnab
Tony Perkins says that God said that its not an oversight issue, its a gay issue.
Also, Perkins was really luckwarm about telling anyone who to vote for, because… God forbid some Christian Conservative vote Dem, right?
It’s funny. You know how we all feel right now about Menendez in New Jersey and some of the other torture-Dems in the House? That’s probably how the CCs feel about half their Republican ballot choices about now.
The Other Steve
They are used to doing a lot with barely any money.
The Ministry of Execution worked on a shoestring budget, and was quite efficient and innovative. They turned execution day into a holiday at the local soccer arena. Even made some money for the state from ticket sales and concessions.
PeterJ
The Taliban seem to be way too interested in medling with what you are allowed to do in your own home. But so does the current administration too.
Never seen the Taliban as big government types though. They don’t seem like they would approve of Medicare.
Faux News
Probably Flat Tax supporters.
Flat Earth supporters too.
Anyway the American Enterprise Institute can school them in whatever it is the Taliban need to know.
Halffasthero
The fact Captain Ed considers that
is all I need to know about him. It truly disappoints me that Minnesota has candidates like this woman. She would turn the U.S. into a theocracy if she had a chance. I hope I am wrong because she is ahead in the polls for her district.
Pharniel
you should read the kewl-aid that ace’s commentors are still on about.
apperently clinton is still worse than bush. and so were the years ’92-2000
*boggle*
The Asshole Formerly Known as GOP4Me
They hate gun control, too. Also, they really, really, really like the death penalty.
Carrying that theme over to the realm of protecting our children from filth masquerading as “art” or “technology” or “communication,” they also enjoy carrying out mock executions of televisions and radios:
Presumably, the Taliban would extend this death sentence to PCs and laptops as well, thereby protecting our children from online sexual predators like that shameless RINO, Foley.
The more I think about it, the more I like this Taliban idea.
The Asshole Formerly Known as GOP4Me
Fuck, forgot the link.