So I guess there are only two things in Idaho- steers and queers, and it turns out that Sen. Larry Craig (R-ID) is reported to be the latter:
Mike Rogers, who calls himself “the nation’s leading gay activist blogger” has just finished a nationally-broadcast interview on the Ed Schultz Radio Show in which he alleges that Idaho Republican Senator Larry Craig has engaged in same-sex sexual activity.
Senator Craig’s office flatly rejected the claims. “The Senator says this story is absolutely ridiculous – almost laughable,” said press secretary Sid Smith. “It has no basis in fact.”
Rogers said he has talked to three men unknown to each other who all reported in detail their sexual encounters with Craig over the last four years. The men were of legal age, Rogers said.
My attitude- so what? Who cares if he is gay?
Oh- that is right- the GOP cares if he is gay, because if he is, it might suppress the voting base. Which is, of course, the only reason why the right wing is having a collective hissy fit about this ‘outing’ of Larry Craig. Even now, the GOP is running on a platform of gay-bashing.
I think these intentional outings of people is wrong- if Larry Craig is, in fact gay, it was his business and his business alone. If it were not for the GOP running around demonizing gays, pretending that acceptance of homosexuality will be the end of the world, and engaging in gay-bashing as political sport, closeted gays would not be closeted. I don’t know if Craig is gay, and I don’t care, and even though I disagree with people being outed against their will, it is, in large part, the GOP’s fault that being outed as gay is still considered a smear.
*** Update ***
And I am generally sympathetic to this viewpoint:
That’s how it’s done. You decry the gross invasion of someone’s personal life.
Then you take advantage of it.
To the extent Democrats speak about this at all, that’s a close approximation of what they’ll say.
Sure, unadulterated outrage is the decent reaction. But where’s the political advantage in that?
It is a shame that someone’s sexual orientation will be used as ammunition against them in a political campaign, and if the republicans had not been doing it for years, I would be furious. But hey- the party that has made whisper campaigns an art form (“Ann Richards was a dyke, you know!”- “John McCain has a black baby!” And for a look at the way Republican bloggers behave, look at the attacks on Andrew Sullivan.)
I think it is wrong that Craig was outed, but I think it is wrong my party has demonized gays for electoral gain for several decades. You reap what you sow, folks.
*** Update #2 ***
Commenters reminded me of the attempts to ‘out’ Glenn Greenwald. Here is Dan Riehl, today, on Larry Craig:
Not only has the party of John Kennedy, once dominant on national defense, given itself over to the blame America, appeasement movement represented by John Kerry … the party of Martin Luther King and civil rights has given itself over to the tactics of homophobic hate and Jim Crow in a quest for a power they can almost taste.
The closer they get to winning, the more of their sad, hate-filled, shallowness they expose. America needs to reject the demogogy we’re currently seeing from the Democrat Left by voting against it at the polls.
The loony Left has done what Republicans could not, re-energize the Republican base.
Here is Dan Riehl, just a few months ago:
To paraphrase learned Constitutional scholar Glenn Greenwald, I don’t have the bandwidth to quote him, we cannot accept this blasphemy, treason and eliminationist rhetoric as representative of blogospheric political discourse. Or, something like that.
But I like the marketing angle. So, I’m thinking, what better way to take advantage of the current Liberal Blogosphere bonanza of attention we’ve been hearing about … mostly from them, than to launch a series of Gay Blogger Boy Toy dolls, so every Liberal commenter can take a likeness of their favorite Liberal Boy Toy blogger home.
According to our Liberal focus groups, we’ll need anatomically correct dolls for Gay male Liberals, but not so for the Liberal ladies and feminists – they like their Boy Toys neutered, research has shown.
And of course, you can’t offer a Gay male doll without a cat, so we’ll also be offering our special Wolcott addition – a charming, though mildly provocative Ocicat.
We may eventually come out with a sort of rag doll model for Conservatives who might like to have one around for a pin cushion – but our Liberal focus group informs us, we should put a hold on the manly bits for that model. You know those always seeking the moral high-ground, overly religious types, no telling what they’ll sneak off to the closet to do with a doll that comes with manly bits.
Umm, yeah.
*** Update #3 ***
The outing crusade gains momentum. Look: I loathe the closet. I despise the hypocrisy in the Republican party. But a witch-hunt is a witch-hunt. If the gay left thinks it will advance gay dignity by using tactics that depend on homophobia to work, that violate privacy, that demonizes gay people, then all I can say is: they are wrong. They will regret it. It will come back to haunt them. And they should cut it out. The fact that their motives might be good is no excuse. Everybody on a witchhunt believes their motives are good. But the toxins such a witchhunt exposes, the cruelty it requires, and the fanaticism of its adherents are always dangerous to civilized discourse. What you’re seeing right now is an alliance of the intolerant: the intolerant on the gay left and the intolerant on the religious right. The victims are gay people – flawed, fallible, even pathetic gay people. But they are still people. And they deserve better.
He is right, of course. People shouldn’t be outed. And what has happened to Craig is, unequivocably wrong. But it wouldn’t be an issue if we hadn’t spent the last two decades villifying teh gay. Sullivan should look back at some of the things said about him- the numerous attempts to just waive his views off as irrelevant because Andrew is nothing more than a fag and the only thing he cares about is gay marriage.
*** Yet Another Update **
Dan Riehl continues to be hysterical:
The Senator denies the report. AND HE SHOULDN’T HAVE TO. This is America, at least I thought it was.
If you think this is a small matter, I’d argue you’re wrong. In total, from swimming in a sea of hate that responded to the death of innocent contractors in Iraq with “screw ’em,” prominent Democrat candidates have profited to the tune of $3.5 Million dollars. Below are just a few.
Last I looked, Tester running in Montana had half a million dollars in the bank. Half of those dollars came from a Netroots web now claiming an Idaho Senator is a homosexual three weeks before an election, as if it’s anyone’s business besides his, even if he were.
Is that the type of Democrat Tester is running as in Montana? Lamont is an empty suit, but he had no trouble filling his pockets with $400k from the very same source. And what of Jim Webb? Does he have a position on Gays in the military? Perhaps it’s out.
DNC Chair Howard Dean, Senators Barbara Boxer and Harry Reid, among others, traveled to Nevada to solicit support and lavish praise on the same individual whose blog is now featuring the clearest example of homophobic-laced hate in politics I’ve ever seen. Even today, they are raising money for a so-called expanded field.
Let’s face it- Dan Riehl knows homophobic-laced hate when he sees it. /snicker.
Dan is right, though. This is America. We could take Larry Craig out, waterboard him, and find out if he is teh gay.
*** What the hell. One more update. ****
Drudge links to this timely story:
Vernon Robinson, who has run a series of brash advertisements about the two-term Democratic congressman, charged that Miller wants to import homosexuals to the United States and supported scientific studies that would pay teenage girls to watch pornography.
“Those are San Francisco values, not North Carolina values,” said Robinson, repeating a common theme of his campaign.
A bemused Miller countered by blasting Robinson for a campaign mailer that implicitly suggested the congressman was gay and criticized Miller for being “childless.” Miller’s wife had a hysterectomy more than two decades ago.
“It’s clear that Vernon Robinson is obsessed with sex,” Miller said after the 40-minute debate, which also touched on issues ranging from Iraq to North Korea to illegal immigration.
During the debate, Robinson complained that Miller was one of 129 co- sponsors of a bill that would have allowed homosexuals to bring their partners to the United States.
Not only do Democrats support teh gay, they want to import them.
DJAnyReason
Uhhh… D-ID?
norbizness
I assume the (D-ID) should be (R-ID), or Fox News programming has gotten to you. As for the underlying story, I’m of two minds: I can accept exposing the hypocrisy of the anti-gay GOP, but then it also panders to the homophobia of the base, and serves only to suppress voter turnout rather than enhance it.
Rudi
John is this your Fox oReilly moment?
Pb
You’ve got it, more or less. And Glenn Greenwald went into even more detail on the duplicity at work here. Also, I’d like to mention to the collective hissy fit out there that in this case, “the Left” is spelled “Mike Rogers”, just in case that fine point escaped some of them.
John Cole
LOL- that was because I couldn’t remember the postal code for Idaho. I had IO- and looked at it and it made no sense, so I went through and backspaced and fixed it, and put IA, and then realized it was ID.
It is fixed, and no, I don’t work for O’reilly.
capelza
norbizness..I agree with you and John…it is discomforting to have someone’s personal life exposed.
But then, as you all have stated differently, there’s nothing like being hoisted on your own petard of gay bashing.
It does pander to the base (pick your definition), but perhaps if enough people get outed then the base will realise that Gays aren’t some alien, existential threat, but the people who live and work among us, some very conservative.
Even if the “base” continues to wallow in in it’s homophobic ignorance, it might cause the thinking people in the party to realise that using gay-bashing as an election weapon might not be the best idea and drop the whole nasty business.
Steve
Glenn Greenwald’s post is typically excellent. Of course, it bears noting that none of the right-wing bloggers who are in a frenzy over Sen. Craig said a word when some wingnut went digging through court recorts to “out” Greenwald himself, and many of them make snide comments about his sexuality to this day. Outing gay Republicans, on the other hand, now that’s reprehensible!
capelza
That’s right Steve…I forgot that. I never knew that Glenn was Gay until he started irritating the Righty bloggers with his posts and they went digging…it doesn’t matter anyway, but they certainly did do that…I remember getting into some big tadoo with one that insisted on calling him Gigi after that, all the while insisting it wasn’t an insult.
The Ghost of Santa Claus
Craig is gay?
That settles it- I’m NEVER visiting Idaho again. Idaho joins California on my no-go list. (Yes, I know the children will suffer through lack of war toys, possibly growing up to become gay themselves. I’ll drop the toys off at a PO Box across the state line in Wyoming, if that’s what it comes down to.)
Pb
Excellent points there–I didn’t know anything about Glenn’s personal life, really, until he brought it up one day to respond to said right-wing smears. Now, I just don’t care–I wish him and his partner all the best, so long as Glenn keeps up the good work on his blog! :)
srv
I wish I could get excited about this, but I’m trying to help George figure out how to win this war. Apparently, Mr. Maliki’s clock is ticking, and he may have to be ‘retired’ before the end of the year. Perhaps he has a gay staff problem also.
Maybe this would work
I knew the Brits were brutal in the 20’s, what I didn’t know was that Churchill was gassing the Kurds…
If it was good enough for Churchill, why isn’t it good enough for GW? Isn’t he the Winston of our times?
Sam Hutcheson
So, what we can say is Mike Rogers is an ass who fails to understand the concept of personal privacy. As for the Democratic reaction, I think it’s reasonable to expect the primary Dems to say something to the effect that Craig’s sexuality is his own business, and it’s reasonably similar to expect such statements to be ignored by the outraged reaches of right-wing blogistan.
srv
Oh, and on the gay stuff. It’s the Hypocrisy Stupid. It isn’t hypocritical to point out hypocrisy.
Paul L.
Compare and Contrast
This post with this post.
vs.
And guys, I have not seen anything new on Qana.
The Other Steve
Well that’s because he turned into a Liberal when he started questioning Bush.
ThymeZone
This whole situation makes the Gingrich “we woulda been accused of gay bashing” thing possibly the most ludicrous public statement since “Mission Accomplished.”
Ref: Where’s a good gay when you need him?
Ref: Rice refers to his companion’s mother as his “mother in law.”
One is not sure whether to laugh or cry at the machinations of these disgusting (Republican) people. As they approve this guy, who is obviously part of an agenda that is the greatest threat to our society, according to the GOP.
Steve
I really can’t tell if Patterico realizes he’s simply advising the Democrats to do what Republicans have been doing all along, and indeed, what they’re doing in this very case.
Andrew
My only problem with this is that there doesn’t seem to be solid evidence that Craig is gay.
John Cole
I don’t care if he is gay or not. If he is, so what? If he isn’t, so what? Outing someone closted is wrong, regardless.
My point is that being outed would not even be an issue if the GOP had not been gay-bashing forthe past, well, forever.
Paul L.
Of course Double standards are nothing new.
I pointed this out at Crooks and Liars when they wrote
Attacking Sheehan: Melanie Morgan’s Obsession
And they showed the typical liberal response to dissent and deleted the comment.
The Ghost of Santa Claus
If you’re not with us, you’re against us.
srv
I knew one of them was gay
Pb
There was a nice little discussion over on the Daily Kos related to this–“On the Politics of Outing People“; I posted here, eventually concluding that “I tend to lean somewhere in between outing the hypocrites and outing them all”.
jaime
So what does Zot on FreeRepublic and Blam! on RedState mean? Someone has to register to leave a comment on your site, Paul, and most Rightie blogs don’t even allow for comments.
Gerry Studds just died and his sexual indiscretion happened TWENTY THREE FUCKING YEARS AGO. Every time you people bring up his name it’s smack of pathetic desperation like a 10 year old blaming the dog for knocking over the T.V.
Ted
A lot of you are missing the entire point of what Rogers did. From my(our) perspective of being gay, we’re involved in a social warfare many do not seem to recognize the intensity of. From the perspective of many gays I know (and I know quite a few), the Christian right is disturbingly similar to a rising Nazi ideological movement. We simply can’t stand by with information about the hypocrisy of a GOP politician who is publicly casting votes that wage social warfare on gay citizens, all in an effort to rile up a base of hatred to turn out to vote.
The GOP’s motives for their anti-gay machinations may not be to stir up too much hatred for gays, but that is the effect it has. I agree with John and others that outing is almost always wrong. But not in the case of a man with a good deal of power who is writing policy that affects my goddamned life directly, all the while doing the same thing he works against, while in private.
Andrew
The only people who care that he is gay are right wing bigots. The left only cares that he is a (outward) homophobe who is actually trying to hurt gays. The fact that he is gay, hypocrisy aside, leads to a means by which to remove a homophobe from power. That’s the realpolitik explanation.
Alternately, if Craig is out fucking dudes in secret, he is more liable to be blackmailed and fuck over his constituents and country to keep his private life secret. Right? Well, it just so happens that this was the reasoning behind the FBI not hiring gays for many years. I happen to think this line of reasoning is somewhat silly; it was the homophobic right that came up with this one.
Why does Harry Reid have to make financial disclosures while Craig doesn’t have to make sexuality disclosures? The only thing in the Constitution is a ban on religious tests. It don’t say nothing about a “doing it with dudes” test.
zzyzx
NRO is predicting this on a daily basis. Whenever anyone says anything that the Republicans don’t like, the Corner uses that to predict that it will energize the base. There’s a difference between wishful thinking and an accurate prediction. I should know, I’m a liberal.
Steve
Bzzzzt! Try 33 years ago.
Tsulagi
Yeah, Craig’s personal life should be his own, and as a senator he should be judged solely on how well he performs his job, not who he performs what on in private.
But he’s in the GOP, God’s Only Party. Where the prophet Dobson has proclaimed Spongebob the devil’s seed secretly turning our children gay. The party of God’s soldiers who just know words like “tolerance” and “diversity” are really code words used by the gay agenda seeking to destroy their marriages.
So Craig, if you are gay, or if just gay taint near you causes problems for you in your party, I’ll feel sorry for you just as soon as I stop laughing.
Darrell
I see.. it’s unquestionably wrong, but Repubs “had it coming”, so that makes it less bad.
Pb
So… how ’bout them boyscouts?
ThymeZone
Who knew that porifera, whose life might begin at viviperous fertilization, or at budding, would be Satan’s choice for spreading his evil throughout the world?
The Devil works his wonders in mysterious ways.
ThymeZone
That was the theory behind Plame, wasn’t it? That the Wilsons “had it coming?”
Fuck off, man.
capelza
Don’t forget Tinky Winky! He’s the Dark Gay Overlord.
Wasn’t 9/11 the fault of Lesbians? Won’t Gay marriage destroy hetero marriages? The 50% that survive that is.
Grennwald does have a great rundown of the GOP hypocrisy. I’m looking for the Darrell posts where he vehemently denounced all that…I just know it’s here somewhere…
Yeah, it is wrong to expose a person’s private life. Now think back…it IS the Hypocrisy, Stupid!
Andrew
Well, they can’t go sailing in Berkeley anymore, but those little sailor outfits were pretty gay to begin with.
Punchy
Fixed.
And there’s nothing in there about “chicks doing chicks” either, is there? Oh God, I hope not…
Zifnab
Honestly, I’d love to see everyone outed who’s in just so we could have some realistic statistics on what a gay person really is. Then, perhaps, those cute little “90% of all child predators are homosexuals” tidbits people keep on floating among the Dobsonistas will die a bit faster and a bit harder.
And besides, it would be interesting, purely from a demographic standpoint, to have an accurate picture of how many GOPers are purely ignorant and how many are just hypocritically ignorant.
Mac Buckets
And so do the Democrats, obviously. The party of personal privacy, you know — if you’re a Democrat. The party of staying out of your bedroom — unless you are a political enemy. The party that gives standing ovations to congressmen who have gay sex with underage pages — when they’re Democrats.
OK,
SullivanJohn, that link is about a single measure in Virginia, and it doesn’t quote a single Republican. Show me where it says anything about the “GOP running on a platform of gay-bashing.”And the use of the term “gay-bashing” is more than offensive — my offer stands that anyone who uses it my face to describe the opposition to gay marriage gets to spend the next several minutes picking up his teeth. “Gay-bashing” is what happened to Matthew Shepard. Opposing gay marriage or any plank of a pro-gay agenda is not the same thing as physically assaulting gay people, no matter how liberals have desperately tried to conflate the two. (And these are most of the same people who whine about the unfairness and inaccuracy of being called “pro-abortion,” I’ll bet.)
That’s so dumb that it absolutely beggars description. So it’s the GOP’s fault that being gay is considered by some to be morally wrong and/or disgusting? Then, pray tell, why are there are gays closeted in every country, no matter how conservative or liberal, or how Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or Hindu on the planet? Is it the evil GOP that’s keeping those Swedish gays closeted, or the ones in Japan, or Russia? Or might it be something a little more universal than those Evil GOP Christianists,
AndrewJohn?A terrible ending to a horrific, absolutely brain-dead post.
ThymeZone
You wish. What an ass.
Gay bashing is the standard and correct term for the Republican strategy, and your silly faux-virile protests will be soundly and thoroughly ignored.
“Defense of Marriage” is and always has been nothing more than schoolsboys’ restroom queer-bashing done for the simple and obvious reason that the GOP can do it and get away with it. Period.
Marriage needs no defense from gays. Never has, never will.
capelza
Oh Mac..just stop…this isn’t about the rest of the world (and since when did you care about what the rest of the world thinks?). And yes, the Dems have run on a platform of denying Gays equal protection under the law and denying them rights and privileges.
What happened to Matthew Shephard wasn’t gay bashing, it was murder…the ultimate “bashing” yes, but you are the first person I have seen narrow the definition like that. The semantics war begins?
capelza
I forgot my sarcasm tag..the Dems have NOT run on an anti-gay platform.
cd6
Does voting for a gay candidate make you turn gay?
What about AIDS?? Can you spread AIDS through gay votes like you can spread AIDS through tears??
ThymeZone
Uh, no. That train left the station a long time ago.
orogeny
Could someone explain difference between outing gay Republicans and, say, outing a member of the Aryan Nations who is actually black or a Nazi Party member who is hiding the fact that he’s Jewish? Is it the fact that being black or Jewish is “OK”, but being gay is something to be ashamed of? The black skinhead or the Jewish Nazi would certainly face discrimination from, and would be ostracized by, most of their present associates, just as the gay Republicans would be. It seems to me that it is appropriate to point out the hypocrisy of someone who helps bring to power people who, if they could have their way, would make that person’s very nature a crime.
cd6
“Clean skies act” will always hold the title for the semantics war champion
jaime
Every mention of Gerry Studds deserves a kick in the nuts.
And WHO gave Gerry Studds a standing O? Congress? When? Where? Prove it.
Zifnab
I was always a bigger fan of the “Healthy Forests Initative”. The one where they got rid of all those pesky trees.
The Asshole Formerly Known as GOP4Me
Stay away from Idaho/San Francisco/any major city.
Gayness is an airborne virus, just like satellite television and the flu.
Zifnab
That’s exactly why. Imagine if you lived back in the segregationist south and someone suddenly announced you were just black enough to not be allowed to use white people facilities. Such an announcement would effectively ostrosize you from the rest of gentele society.
Now that Craig is outed, he’s not allowed to hang out with his straight buddies any more and he has to use a seperate bathroom so he doesn’t spread AIDS.
Because most of America is still composed of shallow, small-minded assholes. That’s why.
Mike S
Maximus the tough guy. At least when he’s at his keyboard.
As far as the over-all post, the whole idea just disgusts me. If people want to stay in the closet they should be able to. I find it extremely sad that they feel that need because each and every friend I have that has come out has had their lives get better, for the most part.
OTOH, those that choose to remain in the closet shouldn’t be furthering the extremist agenda against gays. But while I understand the outer’s motives I can’t condone them.
jaime
I know for a fact that George Dubya and the GOP applauded a guy who choked the shit out of his mistress…RECENTLY.
McNulty
Well, it killed the career of black white-supremacist and best selling author Clarence Bigsby.
orogeny
I’m not talking about the person who is just trying to make their way through life. I’m talking about the person who is actively helping the folks who represent the “shallow, small minded assholes”. The the equivalent of the light-skinned, straight-haired black guy who back in the segregationist days would have worked as the press secretary of the local Grand Dragon.
Kimmitt
Nah, it’s time to go ahead and out the Republican gays. If you belong to a community, you should not work relentlessly to destroy it. At minimum, people should know that you are a member. Enough is enough.
Punchy
Oh Lord…stop…this is just too damn easy. Let’s continue to reflect on the fact that the House decided to vote on it…AFTER…lemmie repeat that…AFTER the Senate had voted it down.
They had NO LEGISLATIVE REASON to even vote after the Senate killed it except to show their bigots how anti-gay they really were.
Pb
The 2006 Republican Party of Texas Platform essentially states that God hates fags, and so do they:
Also note that a lot of this hasn’t changed from their platform in 2000, so if you were wondering where Bush and today’s GOP was coming from over the past six years, wonder no longer.
Andrew
Luckily, there is a glory hole right into the straight Congressmen’s bathroom, so no body will be left out. They just do a little prayer to Jesus first, and that stops the AIDS and tears.
The Asshole Formerly Known as GOP4Me
The Nazis held onto Reinhard Heydrich because he was useful in the planning and implementation of the Holocaust (and the Gestapo, if memory serves). I’m told Hitler himself was partially Jewish, in fact. Speaking of another genocide, it is also worth noting that some of the high-ranking members of the Hutu Power movement were of Tutsi ancestry.
A movement which maintains power based on the demonization of a hated minority cannot afford to sacrifice useful members of that minority who are willing to work against their own group’s best interests. To do so would risk the movement’s overall grasp on power by exposing its hypocritical willingness to tolerate its own enemies within high-ranking leadership positions, insofar as they were useful to the movement.
We have to leave aside considerations of hypocrisy for a moment, especially when discussing groups like the Nazis and Hutu Power who are guilty of far worse crimes than simple hypocrisy (by the tenets of their own ideologies as much as by my independent moral assessment of the bastards). When you rule by the edict of “divide and conquer”, it’s helpful to have a big-tent position within your own leadership. If a hated group consists of, say, the intelligentsia (a grouping which could easily be construed to include a number of Jews/Tutsis/gays), that will help to rally the non-intelligentsia, the uneducated, if you will, to one’s banner. However, it is difficult to organize a political structure without individuals possessing the knowledge and training to attempt the construction of such an edifice. For that, education is required, so one must turn to the intelligentsia. Individuals can always be located who possess the right combination of selfishness and self-loathing to act against the best interests of their social/cultural/tribal/racial/religious grouping, and in favor of the oppressive ideological movement. In return for their usefulness and assistance, they are entrusted with high rank and the necessary concealment of their own original classification.
I guess. I’m sure Darrell or someone else will tell me I’m wrong, or that I’m an asshole for comparing the GOP to the great totalitarian movements of the 20th century. Such a critique presupposes, of course, that the GOP is not inherently based on the maintenance of its own power at any cost, which flies in the face of all recent political history.
Anyway, hope that makes sense. I’ll shut up now.
Tsulagi
Ooooo…look at the puffing. So cute. I’m sure you’re just adorable in the Republican/Foley men party. Live with it, bitch.
Yep, the retarded party of Dobson does use “defense of marriage” solely as a way to bash gays and delude the retards into thinking that gives them a spine and testosterone. That’s who they are.
RSA
I’m a bit ambivalent. For example, suppose that the Craig story had played out this way: one of Craig’s former sexual partners goes to a newspaper and said, “I’ve had sex with this guy,” and offers reasonable evidence that what he says is true. I wouldn’t hold that against him–people should be free to say what they want, if it’s true. It would be unfortunate, but no more unfortunate than the Jeri Ryan scandal, or the Giuliani divorce stories, or whatever we read in the tabloids about someone claiming to have “newsworthy” information about their relationship with some celebrity. If some of the people involved in a relationship want to make it public, but others want to keep it private, there are subtleties involved in deciding who should win out.
On a different topic, I never realized conservatives could be so sensitive to the nuances of language:
I’d offer to beat the shit out of the next person to call Democrats appeasers, but I’d probably get my ass handed to me, not having had military training and all.
Area Man
The difference is that there was only one political party I recently recall using “the gay peril to the traditional family unit” as a wedge issue to influence votes.
And yes, that political party had it coming. If the shoe fits, I guess take it off and bang it on the table.
Whiners.
m.croche
Craig appears to have played a siginificant role in defeating ENDA in the 90s – Craig was very much against legislation prohibiting employment discrimination based on sexual orientation.
So – if it’s okay for an employer to base employment decisions on an employee’s sexual orientation, then Sen. Craig is in a poor position to complain when the public turns its spotlight on him. After all, an employee’s private life is indeed a legitimate concern for the employer.
To get a measure of Craig’s loathesomeness, take a look at:
http://www.senate.gov/~rpc/releases/1997/ENDA7-16.MEM.htm
The Asshole Formerly Known as GOP4Me
I think we can fairly internationalize that comment, to be honest.
Because most people in general are narrow-minded, ignorant, selfish assholes more concerned with their social standing and worldly possessions than with abstract moral/religious/humanitarian concerns which may or may not matter in the long run anyway, according to the streak of self-doubting agnostic nihilism each of us carries tucked away in some secure alcove of his or her soul.
I don’t exempt myself from that categorization, mind you- I can be just as selfish an asshole as the next man. I guess the only thing that gives me hope in humanity is that each of us also carries the capacity to recognize and overcome these shortcomings. Otherwise, I think the species would’ve exterminated itself a long time ago.
But I doubt that my tirade helps answer the original question. Sorry.
cd6
GAYDAR? I think they sell that at the Sharper Image
capelza
So, while I’m thinking about it….suppose all the anti-Gay marriage bills and amendments were to pass and hetero marriage still has a survival rate of 50%..who would people like Dobson blame then? Because you know there would have to be a scapegoat. No way should people have to look at themsleves and their own values and choices.
I’m still trying to figure out what word Mac would want to use for the scapegoating of Gays as a panacea for the problems that seem to plague white, heteero Christians…(and yes that was hyperbole a bit).
Steve
There was a fascinating piece in the Village Voice a while back about a prominent leader of the KKK, I think it was, in New York several decades back, and who in fact was secretly Jewish. The FBI, in the course of investigating his organization, found this information out, and an FBI agent leaked it to the press. When a reporter confronted the guy with it, he went home and committed suicide on the spot.
John Cole
Hollywood, the media, immigrants and their non-traditional lifesyles, drugs, alcohol, porn, comic books, Elvis Presley’s hips, and the devil.
Maybe not in that order.
de stijl
Apparently, Sen. Craig was living in his own private Idaho.
de stijl
John,
You missed the obvious – CLINTON!
Punchy
Wow…just…WOW. I knew many Texans were bald-faced bigots, but I didn’t realize this was mainlined into the official GOP platform.
Cyrus
John has yet to definitively post his opinions of conservatives, reactionaries, right-wingers, authoritarians, Republicans, and the differences between them. Being gay is considered bad by and because of conservatives and/or reactionaries. Those two groups may not be exclusively Republican in this country, but they definitely, obviously lean that way. Unfortunately, Republicans have only three choices about how to handle anti-gay prejudice: embrace it, admit that its believers are their fellow travelers on most issues while trying to deal with and mitigate that, or bury their heads in the sand. Your choice?
The Asshole Formerly Known as GOP4Me
The lasting damage of the homosexual/feminist agenda on American cultural institutions like marriage and organized religion. These institutions have survived for centuries, but they are essentially fragile creations easily shattered within a few decades once the Sodomites are permitted to scoff at them.
(I like the term “Sodomite,” BTW. As a straight man, I enjoy sodomy a great deal. Only, because I do it with women, it’s okay. If I did it with a man, it’d be like I stuck a knife into America’s soul every time I fucked. Remember, guys, getting a blowjob from Eve is absolutely fine. It’s only when you get a blowjob from Steve that the Statue of Liberty sheds tears of rust-inducing, AIDS-riddled indignation.)
BTW… sorry, Steve. I wasn’t referring to you, personally. Most Steves are okay with me. It’s just the gay ones you have to watch out for.
Aaron Adams
Craig’s sexual orientation is of no concern to me; however, on the chance it is of some concern to some of his constituients, is he up for reelection this cycle and, if so, who is his opponent?
Pb
I was always amazed to see Christian revivalist preachers railing against The Grateful Dead. I guess that was the updated threat (since Elvis Presley was dead and Jerry Garcia wasn’t yet) at the time. I’m still not quite sure what they objected to, though–was it the drugs, the hippies, the fact that it was technically ‘rock and roll’, or the message of peace? And really, when it comes to sinful sounding rock bands to rail against, The Grateful Dead would be really low down on my list, but I guess it all depends on what the congregation is familiar with.
srv
At least he had some shame wrt his hypocrisy. Would that the republicans had any.
What m.croche said. You can’t tell employers it’s dandy to discriminate and then tell the voters they can’t.
Bruce Moomaw
I see that Mac is back to acting mentally retarded. For the record, Mac, “gay-bashing” has always been recognized as a figurative term for rhetorical abuse (and for imposing immoral discrimination against people who do no harm to anyone), and the GOP openly depends on doing it as an absolutely crucial element of their current narrow political majority (without which, to hold a majority in this country, they would have to move their other positions considerably to the Left).
And I see that Darrell is STILL acting mentally retarded. For the record, Darrell, no one has said that the GOP invented homophobia — they just enthusiastically support and further it for political gain, just as the Dixiecrats did with racial prejudice (another very long-time tradition of human history which is nevertheless regarded now by morally sensible people as evil). But if you yourself actually do think gays are immoral, Darrell, then answer the obvious followup question: just HOW immoral do you think a homosexual is? As immoral as a murderer? As someone who steals $5000? $5? A penny? And, in any such case, why?
Punchy
He’s a rep, so he’s up in every election cycle.
Pb
Yep, I called it:
Note that in this case, “Netroots web” is spelled “Mike Rogers”. And no, the Senator in question is not up for re-election either.
de stijl
Pb,
The preachers, like all good Americans, really, really, really hate noodle dancers!
Bruce Moomaw
And John has very nicely put his finger squarely on the central moral issue — outing gays is considered “morally outrageous” only because gays themselves are still considered morally outrageous by large numbers of dimwitted people. You want to get rid of outing gays as a political tactic? Get rid of the insane hatred of gays which is the only thing that allows it any traction as a political tactic.
Darrell
You know, given yesterday’s discussion over the “obviously absurd” notion that Dems in control would be worse than Repubs, the answer should become more and more apparent to anyone with a mind open enough to see it. There is simply no equivalency on the right to the extremism we see, hear and read from the left every week.
Tulkinghorn
Accuse me of threatening people, and I will respond by punching you in the mouth? Classic, just like the Muslim cartoon protesters.
Krista
They’d blame women who work outside the home. Oh, and they’d blame contraception as well. And non-Christians. And the entertainment industry.
Because as you know, the GOP is the party of personal resp…
Never mind.
The Asshole Formerly Known as GOP4Me
Gay people are way, way worse than murderers. A murderer only kills a couple people, usually; a gay person kills us all, a little bit, because every uncloseted gay person chips a small piece of America away.
We need to quarantine gay people, to prevent gayness from spreading. Same thing Castro did to keep AIDS from spreading in Cuba. Hey, maybe we could send the gay people to Gitmo, to keep the rest of us safe from getting infected by them!
Darrell
Strawman, strawman, get yer red hot strawmen right here!
cd6
Shorter Dan Riehl:
The Asshole Formerly Known as GOP4Me
That strawman’s probably flaming. I wouldn’t buy him even if he wasn’t gay.
jaime
I don’t think you know what the word means Darrell. You might as well have written. “Sofa, Sofa…”Answer the question, coward.
ThymeZone
Darrell is the bigot who still won’t explain why your kids should not go camping with a gay scoutmaster.
Did you really think that he was going to turn into Barry Goldwater today?
Bruce Moomaw
As I say, anyone tempted to get into a debate with Darrell should rememember Dr. Johnson’s comment that criticism is wasted on pure idiocy.
Now let us note Sullivan’s comment that Sen. Craig is a pitiable “victim”: “The victims are gay people — flawed, fallible, even pathetic gay people. But they are still people. And they deserve better.” Then, if they do deserve better, I suggest they stop actively collaborating with anti-gay bigots for political gain – as Craig, if he’s actually gay, enthusiastically does. I have about as much sympathy for him and his ilk as I would have for a light-skinned black who served as a military strategist for the Confederacy.
Darrell
Typical Dem extremism – Repubs are all (or mostly) “anti-gay bigots”. It’s who you are, and another reason why Dems in control truly would be worse.
Darrell
Oh I’m sorry, you were looking to “debate” with me? Anyone looking for honest debate wouldn’t open their address with this
and then follow it up with a huge strawman. Please don’t pretend you’re only looking for debate..
cd6
Stop trying to trick Darrell into a corner you homo hippies
Clearly, the biggest threats to America and society in general, in decreasing order:
Gays
Accountability of any kind
Gay scoutmasters (our boyscouts are our most vunerable resource)
Michael Moore
Bill Clinton
Democrats taking over the government
Terrorists
the MSM
Hollywood
E coli
Papercuts
Insomnia
Bunny rabbits
Osama bin Laden
Sirkowski
Let me tell you a true story.
Not so long ago in Quebec, when the Parti Québécois was in power, the provincial courts forced the government to make a decision wether civil unions could be permitted between partners of the same sex (marriage is a federal matter). Even though the Quebec parliament is usualy progressive, a lot of politicians were not ready to take the political risk of such a move -even closet homosexuals-. So it looked like same-sex civil unions would not be permitted. That is until closet homosexual deputies received faxes, phonecalls and e-mails warnings them they would be outted if they didn’t stand up for gay rights. These people quickly changed their votes and convinced straight deputies to do the same. Thus, same-sex civil-unions is now reckognized in Quebec.
Make your own conclusions out of this.
Mac Buckets
Yep. Them’s fightin’ words. Strong is how Mac Busckets rolls.
cd6
How dare you whackjob moonbat Dems try to paint all Repubs with one sweeping brush mindset.
That is a tactic no true honest Republican would ever engage in. They would never say something like, oh, I don’t know, this:
https://balloon-juice.com/?p=7476#comment-211041
Keep fighting the good fight Darrell
ThymeZone
Anyone looking for any kind of debate wouldn’t waste their time with a spud-singing, lying troll like you.
That was established a long time ago. What’s your point?
Why isn’t it safe to send our kids camping with gays, Darrell? What do you know what we don’t?
jaime
Darrell:
If you were actually interested in actual debate, you probably wouldn’t have cut and run from this question from last night.
or this one from today:
Duck, evade, and move the goal posts. It must be your calling to prove Why Chewbacca, a Wookie, would live on Endor.
Punchy
Shorter MB–accuse me of cheating on my wife, and I’ll rape your mother. I’m stong on pride, weak on recognizing hypocrisy.
The Asshole Formerly Known as GOP4Me
He could lord it over the Ewoks pretty well. At least in a stand-up fight, anyway. Plus he has friends there from the Battle for Endor. And maybe they brew some mean beers, who knows?
If he’s a perv, he could also take one or more of their comelier females to wife. (If he’s gay, he’s in trouble, though. I doubt Ewok culture countenances homosexual marriage.)
ThymeZone
Stop lying. I said YOU are the bigot.
And, you are. So, I was right, and I’m still right.
You can prove me wrong with one sentence. Just repudiate the bigotry. There’s no actual problem with sending our kids camping with gays, is there? Yes or no?
RSA
Or, as Sadly No puts it,
Demdude
My favorite term is the “Pink Purge”.
They of course are blaming the gay staffers for not getting what the want. The fact they are used by the Bushies whenever it suits their needs has nothing to do with it.
(Pink Purge always reminds me of the time I horked up Pepto Bismal. I wish they could settle on a better term!)
Link.
Mike
Actually, when arguing with Darrell it is best to remember:
“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”
jaime
They do throw a kick ass party…although his taste in music probably doesn’t include the ‘yuk-yuk’ song.
The Asshole Formerly Known as GOP4Me
.
Does that mean God lives in our intestinal tracts? Is He watching when we poop? If so… uh-oh.
The Asshole Formerly Known as GOP4Me
Yeah, but after twenty of those “Sacrificial Stormtrooper” microbrews, it all sounds the same anyway.
Mike S
Darrell, you ignorant slut. I guess when the Queen of the Damned wrote an op/ed saying that the wrong Lincoln was assassinated, it is better than the left. She wants a member of her own party killed because he disagrees with her.
Darrell truely is an amalgomation(sp?) of every winger radio host on the air. A combination of willfull ignorance and total dishonesty.
DougJ
Republican Senator Larry Craig has engaged in same-sex sexual activity.
Engaging in same-sex sexual activity doesn’t make you gay. Opposing the president makes you gay.
Krista
You owe me a new keyboard AND a new monitor.
Gus
Shorter Darrell “I know you are but what am I?”
Mac Buckets, I’ll say it, you’re a gay bashing fuck.
r€nato
Exactly how long were gays supposed to remain silent while the Republican party – rife with closeted gays – continued to exploit homophobia for political gain?
I think the politically active gay left has shown remarkable restraint for a long, long, long, long time. How long does one play Mr. Nice Guy before finally fighting fire with fire? How long do you let a bully beat on you before you finally kick him in the nads?
We still don’t know what gay hooker Jeff Gannon was doing on all those White House sleepovers. The outing has just begun and I welcome it. It’s about damn time.
If the GOP would quit the gay-bashing, the outing would cease.
rachel
I read that as “Mr. Nice Gay”, at first.
chopper
oooh, remind me never to quarrel with mac, he’s one of them ‘tough guys’.
kth
The right to privacy is not a right to secrecy. If you are dating someone, you have no right to ask that person to keep your relationship a secret. Even less of a right to insist that an ex keep mum. And if you appear in public with your boyfriend/girlfriend, you surely have no basis for asking the people who see you to keep their mouths shut.