Since the folks at Powerline are pre-emptively blaming them for a loss in Iraq (via the Belgravia Dispatch):
We haven’t lost in Iraq, and we probably won’t if we remain determined to prevail. The situation today is not good in some parts of Iraq, but the implicit suggestion that it can’t get worse is absurd. As I wrote here, the current murder rate in Baghdad is around four times the murder rate in Washington, D.C. in 1991. The murder rate for Iraq as a whole is not quite double the 1991 Washington D.C. rate. This is a high level of violence, to be sure. But it is nothing compared to an actual civil war. It is nothing compared to genocide. If the Democrats win in November, they are likely to have, before long, a great deal of blood on their hands.
Just to get you up to speed on future talking points, even though it was a Republican president, a Republican House, and a Republican Senate that sold, planned (sort of) and implemented the war, it was the Democrats who are to blame for losing it.
I can’t believe I ever voted for these people.
From Bush’s presser:
QUESTION: Mr. President, the war in Iraq has lasted almost as long as World War II for the United States.
And as you mentioned, October was the deadliest month for American forces this year — in a year. Do you think we’re winning, and why?
BUSH: First of all, this is a different kind of war than a war against the fascists in World War II. We were facing a nation state — two nation states — three nation states in World War II. We were able to find an enemy by locating its ships or aircraft or soldiers on the ground.
This is a war against extremists and radicals who kill innocent people to achieve political objectives. It has a multiple of fronts.
Afghanistan was a front in this war against the terrorists. Iraq is now the central front in the war against the terrorists.
This war is more than just finding people and bringing them to justice. This war is an ideological conflict between a radical ideology that can’t stand freedom and moderate, reasonable people that hope to live in a peaceful society.
And so it’s going to take a long time. I am confident we will succeed. I am confident we’ll succeed in Iraq. And the reason I’m confident we’ll succeed in Iraq is because the Iraqis want to succeed in Iraq.
The ultimate victory in Iraq, which is a government that can sustain itself, govern itself and defend itself, depends upon the Iraqi citizens and the Iraqi government doing the hard work necessary to protect their country. And our job is to help them achieve that objective.
As a matter of fact, my view is: The only way we lose in Iraq is if we leave before the job is done.
And I’m confident we can succeed in the broader war on terror, this ideological conflict.
So while Powerline describes our status in the war in Iraq as “We haven’t lost in Iraq…,” Bush claims we are winning and we only lose if we leave.
To make sure we are clear, we aren’t winning, but if we do, the Republicans deserve credit. If we lose the elections and withdraw, it is the Democrats fault. Stay tuned for the talking points for what happens if the Republicans maintain control of the Congress and we lose in Iraq. I blame Michael J. Fox (he is an actor AND Canadian).
Thank goodness the adults are in charge.
Having been a member of the Mushy Middle(tm) for my adult life, I can’t really understand what you’re going through, but I’m glad you are. Honest assessment of your former side of the aisle requires a whole lot of crow to be eaten, and you’re doing it publicly. I can only hope others are willing to do the same on Nov. 7th. Even if they don’t, you’ve done what you can, and for that you have my respect.
About those numbers, funny story:
Also it probably goes without saying that I’d trust the Lancet Study‘s data and methodology over Powerline’s any day…
I give you a great deal of credit for being able to recognize what has happened to the GOP, John. As you can see from the folks at Powerline, et al, many choose to ignore the Iraq death-spiral.
For myself, I can’t believe I gave this administration the benefit of the doubt in the run-up to the war. Never again will I assume that members of either party are operating in good faith when it comes to waging war.
I hope that, if my party gets control of at least one house of congress, we will have a debate in this country about whether or not the 1% doctrine is the right strategy. Oh, and I’d like to know where that fucking 9 billion dollars is, too!
Thanks for keeping them honest, John.
Bush just said Iraq isn’t comparable to WWII…but wait, that’s not what the wingers say! How confusing.
No no no. Iraq is comparable to WWIII.
Uh… this is supposed to be different from WWII in what way, exactly? Evidently Hitler, Stalin, and Hirohito all lived in Germany and were moderates who never harmed a fly.
Actually, that Stalin ought to be Mussolini, huh.
Really doesn’t matter whether the Republicans or Democrats have control of one or both houses of Congress or the presidency, for the lobotomized Powerline retardocons it will always be the Dem’s fault on any issue. That’s the way magnetic fields are aligned. Good apples/bad apples. Don’t need to know anything else. Critical thinking is a waste of time when you already know the truth.
Can someone please hand this clown a thesaurus?
I am utterly dumbfounded. The more these clowns play with semantics, the more it becomes obvious that 3000 or so young American lives and futures were dogshit compared to risking the Holy Permanent Majority.
Fuck these people. And fuck the people who enable them.
The real problem is he’s just dizzy from turning all those corners.
Boy, just think how f*cked up things would be if those happy Iraqi’s DIDN’T want to succeed…you know, I see the Right is already formulating another brilliant “Exit Strategy”..uh-huh…read it in the LA Times the other day…Jonah Goldberg…he makes the magnanimous gesture of admitting he was wrong about Iraq…but it’s really only so he can get to his real objective: So he can lay out his “solution”…”What we should do is give the Iraqi’s a CHOICE..let them VOTE.” And the “Choice”? “Do you want the Americans to Stay or Leave?”. Uh…if I’m an Iraqi I’m looking for “(c)Something else”, for instance, “How about you FIX all the shit you broke first and THEN get the Hell out of our lives.”
This is the natural political extension of their economic policy: privatization of profits, socialization of risk. Why not use it for the war as well?
These people are like bad gamblers who keep doubling down and busting. But they have to keep betting more and more to get back what they lost. (Bill Bennett, anyone?)
If they leave the casino while they’re still in the hole they will have lost. If only they can stay in and win a couple of big hands they’ll finally come out a winner.
They’re preparing this, in the end, to be another Vietnam after all. Not in lives lost or started on a lie or in its utter futility and uselessness. No, it will be that the pansy ass liberals, bleeding hearts, peaceniks and traitors forced us to surrender and lose face.
Don’t blame the assholes who started it; blame the poor sods who have to clean up after them.
Typical of the personal responsibility set.
Fox is an ex-Canadian. He became a US citizen in 2000.
Does he have a book he’s promoting? That would be the trifecta. An immigrant, book-promoting actor.
This is how it works. Democrats (see Clinton) get things going in the right direction, and Republicans convince everyone “yeah, things are great, but they’d be better if you didn’t have any taxes or pesky regulations”. Greedy voters think “Yeah… that sounds right, I want more!”. Republicans get in charge & fuck everything up. Then the public gets fed up and elects Democrats, who get things going in the right direction… (at which point the voters forget that the people who fucked things up were the Republicans).
(lather, rinse, repeat).
The entire Republican economic, foreign and social policy platform is a joke, and has been for nearly 20 years now. Even Reagan and Bush I recognized they had to raise taxes to pay for the services they were promoting. Abstinence-only education has never worked, completely de-regulating the energy industry hasn’t led to lower prices and our tough talk doesn’t result in the Axis of Evil giving up their nuclear ambitions.
Smart people recognize when they’re wrong and change course. At this point the Republican party is completely devoid of those people to the point where they believe course changing itself is to be avoided at all costs. I’m just not clear how that gets reversed without the entire party apparatus crumbling and being rebuilt by… who? the small part of the party that’s sane? Certainly not the Christianists, “Libertarians”, racists & homophobes. I don’t think the remainder of the party is really interested in rebuilding the Republican party.
Save yourself some typing and just make this a new category, John. “Republican Stupidity” no longer captures the breadth of the situation, anyway.
The Asshole Formerly Known as GOP4Me
Now you know why we all kept screaming at you/spoofing you. You’re as liberal as most of us are, but you were the last person to catch on to this fact.
For what it’s worth, sorry about the group pile-on. We were just getting frustrated, is all.
You all are not getting what Bush said – John C is getting into the time-honored Dem trick of twisting words and meanings. Bush was saying that perserverence is important and that he believes “we” will win because all people crave democracy, and in the end, Iraq will have to transistion ino democracy to reflect natural human desires. That is a noble, modern belief and he should be given credit for that. Not twisting it into this left/right political statement.
Now perhaps Bush is wrong and the Left is right that the rest of the world IS too stupid to rule themselves. Maybe you need a certain public IQ average of say around 100 to rule yourselves successfully, in which case a lot of the world is frozen out, perhaps only being good enough for dictatorships. If that is the case, the Left should not be celebrating the realization that most of the world is only good enough for repression, and gloating over themselves being “right”.
scs, congrats – That’s the dumbest thing I’ve read in a long time.
John this election is bringing out the best in you. Every one of your posts on the front page is en feugo. Hope you keep it up after November.
This comment pretty well establishes that scsistan is incapable of self-rule, then.
Was? As in past-tense? This guy really needs to pay more attention to the news.
jcricket, this is the best summation I’ve ever seen! Kudos!
And to you John. It takes courage to do what you did. I sure hope you have Kevlar underwear though, with a NASCAR firesuit over it. You will takes shots and serious heat from the PowerLine types.
Like SCS. Who sets up straw men ’cause they’re way easy to knock down. He should join the Army and go help sort things out in Iraq.