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You are here: Home / Politics / Last Word on Kerry

Last Word on Kerry

by John Cole|  November 1, 20062:38 pm| 188 Comments

This post is in: Politics, Blogospheric Navel-Gazing

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Goes to John Derbyshire (who must have a book to sell!):

John Kerry is awful, and anything we can do further to degrade his political prospects is worth doing. But really, I saw a clip of him making the much-deplored remark, and it was obvious that the dimwit in Iraq that he referred to was George W. Bush, not the American soldier. It was a dumb joke badly delivered, but his meaning was plain. My pleasure in watching JK squirm is just as great as any other conservative’s, but something is owed to honesty. There’s a lot of fake outrage going round here.

You really don’t have to like John Kerry to note that he was not smearing the troops. Hell, if he had been, I would be savaging him with the best of them. I have been known to throw a haymaker or two (often times landing it right on my own cheek), and one of the things that always gets me fired up is people attacking our troops unfairly.

But he wasn’t attacking the troops- he was attacking Bush. He just did it in his typical mangled and politically incompetent fashion. I am almost surprised he didn’t make the remark while wearing a wetsuit and carrying a surfboard. But that is neither here nor there, as to the best of my knowledge, Kerry is not running for anything in 2006.

That is, however, what this is all about- the election. At last count, Michelle has 10 front page posts with easily several dozen updates and hundreds of links to OUTRAGED! folks (bonus links to Dan Riehl, jackass extraordinaire, included). Red State is now all John Kerry, all the time with fifteen front page posts. Drudge is in the midst of a prolonged and very public Kerrygasm.

The outrage machine is well oiled and in high gear. Don’t let Kerry’s inability to deliver a joke get in the way of the sins of the GOP.

*** Update ***

Apparently Kerry apologized this morning on Imus (via the Instapundit) for screwing up his joke.

I guess this means we are winning in Iraq now that Kerry has capitulated. Thank goodness the right-wing blogosphere was successful in removing that last barrier to victory.

What, you say? Iraq is still a mess? Shit. How are the Democrats causing us to fail now?

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188Comments

  1. 1.

    The Other Steve

    November 1, 2006 at 2:57 pm

    I just listened to a bit on talk of the nation about this, and the Democrats really blew it. Instead of saying no comment, a few of them decided to enable the Republicans by saying they didn’t agree with John Kerry.

    So now there is bi-partisan consensus that John Kerry hates America.

    That’s how it is being reported.

    Lesson for next time guys: You can laugh at a reporters question and tell them “I think we have more important things to deal with than this”, instead of enabling the jackal machine.

  2. 2.

    Darrell

    November 1, 2006 at 2:58 pm

    Alternative view on NRO:

    If you say something to me, and I look hurt, and you say, “Just kidding,” that does not make what you said a joke. It has to be a joke in the first place. And Kerry’s line is very clearly, both in its wording and in its delivery, not a joke. It’s a warning. He’s talking to students. He says it with an even graver-than-usual, flatter-than-usual tone, and he’s telling them what can happen to them if they don’t study hard. Is he warning them that they might someday be President and make decisions leading to a quagmire in Iraq? Of course not. You can get stuck in Iraq. Personally.

    Beyond that, if the line were, as claimed, a joke about the President, it would theoretically need to contain at least some tiny reference to the President. I could rewrite it a dozen ways to make it a joke, though never a good one — “You can stay in school and study hard and do well, or you can coast through school like our President and end up stuck in Iraq.” But that’s not even close to what Kerry said.

    Also, I think those who defend the idea that he meant the President are misreading the line “you get stuck in Iraq.” It’s a subtle matter of inflection, but I don’t believe he is saying “stuck” in the sense of “mired.” I believe he is saying “stuck” as “unfortunately placed” as in “I got stuck in the worst hotel room.” Again, the President could not be placed in Iraq. Soldiers can.

    Kerry said basically “get yourself smart and educated or end up stuck in Iraq like the other uneducated dolts”. I don’t think this is any great defining issue, but I do think Kerry’s speaking ‘truth to power’, expressing an article of faith (soldiers are dead-enders) believed by many/most on the left. See here

  3. 3.

    Andrei

    November 1, 2006 at 3:00 pm

    To think… if the GOP rightwing hot air machine even spent 1% of its outrage on holding their poltiical party and leaders into account that after three years into a botched war, $300 billion or so spent, nearly 3,000 soldiers dead and 20,000 wounded, plus hundreds of thousands innocent Iraqi civilians “liberated” for the cause of democracy, freedom and fighting the war on terror “over there” instead of over here…

    Wow, that kind of outrage output refocused on real problems might have actually resulted in getting their party leaders collective act together, such that they would have readjusted and fixed the war effort while easily winning elections for decades to come.

    Look! A jackalope!

  4. 4.

    capelza

    November 1, 2006 at 3:02 pm

    Darrell..so you admit that when Bush said Iraq was a catastrphic success, he really meant it was a catasphropy?

  5. 5.

    capelza

    November 1, 2006 at 3:03 pm

    Dammit…catastrophe..

  6. 6.

    Andrei

    November 1, 2006 at 3:06 pm

    Kerry said basically “get yourself smart and educated or end up stuck in Iraq like the other uneducated dolts”.

    Like so many, you are obviously neglecting the context of the statement. Just before his mistated joke, he made a direct jab about George Bush “living in a state of denial.” He moved from one quip to the next, and made a gaffe by not being more explicit that the next joke was also about George Bush.

    Yes, it was a bad gaffe, but you either take Kerry at his word that he meant Bush or not. The evidence suggest he did and there’s no reason to think Kerry beleives that the common soldier is a “dolt.”

    To think that a guy like Kerry really did mean soldiers is the highest form of cynicism possible. It’s also quite frankly why the GOP needs to lose the election, because a lot of us are sick and tired of this intellectual dishonesty guys like Darrell exhibit.

    Darrell, do you think the Iraq war or Kerry’s gaffe are more important in this election cycle?

  7. 7.

    Bombadil

    November 1, 2006 at 3:10 pm

    Dammit…catastrophe..

    OT — capelza, upgrade (or switch to) Firefox 2.0. It includes a spell-checker that kicks in when you post comments. You can even post words to your own dictionary (so, for example, it won’t keep flagging the word “asshat” if you’re responding to one of Darrell’s posts).

  8. 8.

    Paul L.

    November 1, 2006 at 3:15 pm

    Sorry, I do not give Kerry the benefit of a doubt about attacking our troops unfairly.

    I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command….

    They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

  9. 9.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 3:15 pm

    Don’t let Kerry’s inability to deliver a joke get in the way of the sins of the GOP.

    I totally agree. Alas, the fly in this ointment is Kerry himself. He is trying to out-outrage the GOP. “I’m sick and tired!” he cries. “I’m not going to stand for …” blah de fucking blah blah blah.

    So Dems are forced now to run away from his insane tantrum en masse, which they are mostly now doing.

    HRC, on CNN less than an hour ago: “What Senator Kerry said was inappropriate …” Three times she said it.

    All that was missing was for her to spin around on her glass heel and disappear.

    All of this nonsense, because John Kerry is a goddamned fool.

    The Democrats will tell you how big a problem this is, and they are largely lining up to put distance between themselves and this horse’s ass as fast as they can.

  10. 10.

    Baby Jane

    November 1, 2006 at 3:16 pm

    To any Playboy Bunnies and other eye-popping sex kittens:

    Please find your luscious selves all naked and willing at the nearest photo-op, while holding signs on sticks that read: Fuck the Troops

    Duty Calls, Ladies!

  11. 11.

    Tsulagi

    November 1, 2006 at 3:17 pm

    The outrage machine is well oiled and in high gear.

    Exactly. That’s all they got.

    Yep, faithful Fluffers for Bush are outraged, just outraged that words they’ve heard when spun in their heads or for them have only one conclusion: Kerry (read all Dems) doesn’t support the troops! But of course without question they do. Everyone knows that, right?

    tBone had already linked this before I commented on an earlier post. So our troops have one area blockaded and searching where a kidnapped soldier is believed being held and also putting pressure on militias in Sadr City. Maliki orders us to stand down giving a deadline to do so. We comply.

    No way Army and Marines would have left a man behind unless it was a decision/order from our political “leaders.” Yeah, they support the troops.

    Also apparently death squad militias like those based in Sadr City. Guess our admin hearts terrorists as long as they give them a purple finger. Oh, but a poorly worded/misinterpreted joke from Kerry is bulletproof evidence the Dems would be worse. Stay the course faithful fluffers.

  12. 12.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 3:18 pm

    you are obviously neglecting the context of the statement

    Oh yes, Democrats are famous for making the most of “No controlling legal authority” defenses. As you know, they are generally hugely successful. They worked for Al Gore, Clinton …. hell, even Denny Hastert has the routine down now.

    That’s what we really need at this juncture, a lawyerly defense of this bumblefuck and his big mouth.

    Good Christ.

  13. 13.

    Pb

    November 1, 2006 at 3:19 pm

    Paul L.,

    Thanks for at least quoting enough of that to make the context somewhat clear–so what’s your argument here, are you saying that Kerry was lying about those soldiers’ testimonies, or that atrocities didn’t actually happen in Vietnam? Or perhaps that “relations between Americal soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent”?

  14. 14.

    Pb

    November 1, 2006 at 3:25 pm

    ThymeZone,

    Context is not legalese, it’s closer to grammar. It’s also a vital element required for the proper understanding of news stories, often omitted by those who would spin them.

  15. 15.

    Darrell

    November 1, 2006 at 3:30 pm

    Thanks for at least quoting enough of that to make the context somewhat clear—so what’s your argument here, are you saying that Kerry was lying about those soldiers’ testimonies, or that atrocities didn’t actually happen in Vietnam?

    Kerry was acting as a smear merchant, publicizing lies from a number of individuals falsely claiming to be Vietnam Vets. Most importantly, the issue is not whether or not “atrocities happened”, as you dishonestly characterize the issue.. it’s the claim made by John Kerry that atrocities were “not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.”

    THAT statement is the crux of the smear advanced by John Kerry.

  16. 16.

    Shabbazz

    November 1, 2006 at 3:30 pm

    If only Kerry had said, “To those who want to kill our troops — BRING ‘EM ON!”

  17. 17.

    Paul L.

    November 1, 2006 at 3:30 pm

    Thanks for at least quoting enough of that to make the context somewhat clear—so what’s your argument here, are you saying that Kerry was lying about those soldiers’ testimonies, or that atrocities didn’t actually happen in Vietnam?

    I am quoting this from Kerry because he testified about it to Congress and that gives me the impression that he believed it.

    However

    Kerry’s used “testimony” from the VVAW’s “Winter Soldier Investigation” as the basis for his war crimes charges, although none of the witnesses there were willing to sign depositions affirming their claims. Later investigators were unable to confirm any of the reported atrocities, and in fact discovered that a number of the witnesses had never been in Vietnam, had never been in combat, or were imposters who had assumed the identity of real veterans.

  18. 18.

    Rick Taylor

    November 1, 2006 at 3:35 pm

    I think it’s pretty straightforward. For conservatives to face the deteriorating situation in Iraq, or the reasons that their failing at the polls would be no fun; it’s much more cathartic to club Kerry. If things were going well in the war and they were cruising to making gains in the midterms, they wouldn’t give Kerry the attention they are now. It’s human nature. What did that fellow Jesus say? Something about removing a mote in another’s eye? A lot of right wing pundits are in full bore mote-removal mode.

    –Rick Taylor

  19. 19.

    Andrew

    November 1, 2006 at 3:36 pm

    I see Paul L at My Lai… I guess it’s not an atrocity if gunning down villages makes you orgasm.

  20. 20.

    Andrew

    November 1, 2006 at 3:37 pm

    I can see Paul L at My Lai… I guess it’s not an atrocity if gunning down villagers makes you orgasm.

  21. 21.

    Bombadil

    November 1, 2006 at 3:39 pm

    I wonder what Darrell uses for his soundtrack while he’s typing this shit. “Battle Hymn of the Republic”, maybe? Wagner’s “Die Walküre”? “The Merry-go-round Broke Down”?

    I hope he is wearing headphones so Mommy doesn’t have to shout down the basement stairs to turn the sound down.

  22. 22.

    Tsulagi

    November 1, 2006 at 3:58 pm

    So let’s sum Republicans’ reasons why they should remain in charge….

    A guy from Nevada didn’t fill out a form entry properly.
    If Bush and Cheney pepper each other, Pelosi would be worse than those two retards.
    Foley Pubs think a few scenes in a fictional novel are disgusting.
    A guy from Mass. can’t tell a joke.

    Though Bush Pubs have fucked up damn near everything they’ve touched, given the above it’s clear all Dems would be worse. Stay the course.

  23. 23.

    Pb

    November 1, 2006 at 4:04 pm

    Paul L., Darrell,

    Are you saying that was Kerry lying? Or do you think he was a victim of an ‘intelligence failure’, as it were? Or was it ‘fake but accurate’, or… um… accurate?

    Each veteran’s authenticity was checked before the hearings by the investigation event organizers, and subsequently by reporters and pentagon officials. In addition, they also gave specific details about their units and the locations where the alleged events had occurred. Those who wanted to testify were carefully screened by the officers of VVAW, and care was taken to verify the service records and testimony of the veterans. After the severe criticism of the accuracy of Mark Lane’s book a month before the event, the organizers of the Winter Soldier Investigation made the credibility of the participants a top priority. All veterans participating in Winter Soldier were required to bring their discharge papers (DD-214’s) and IDs.

    As noted in VVAW records, each veteran’s authenticity and testimony were checked after the hearings by Nixon’s “plumbers.” Charles Colson was assigned the task. In a CONFIDENTIAL “Plan to Counteract Viet Nam Veterans Against the War”, Colson wrote, “The men that participated in the pseudo-atrocity hearings in Detroit will be checked to ascertain if they are genuine combat veterans.” At one point, the Nixon team suggested in a memo about VVAW, “Several of their regional coordinators are former Kennedy supporters.” VVAW was also targeted by the FBI for observation as a possible dissident organization.

    Although military documentation was provided, some media organizations such as the Detroit News made further inquiries into the hearings by questioning the authenticity of the testifying veterans. Discharge papers were closely examined; military records were checked against the Pentagon records; after all their digging, not one fraudulent veteran was found. The Detroit Free Press reported daily of participants that had been confirmed by the Pentagon as veterans.

  24. 24.

    Bombadil

    November 1, 2006 at 4:08 pm

    Foley Pubs think a few scenes in a fictional novel are disgusting.

    That’s the Macaca Pubs. The Foley Pubs think Hastert did a heckuva job.

  25. 25.

    Andrei

    November 1, 2006 at 4:10 pm

    That’s what we really need at this juncture, a lawyerly defense of this bumblefuck and his big mouth. Good Christ.

    Normally I’d be annoyed at ppGaz for being his typical dick self. Alas, in this case, I’m just amused that ppGaz can’t seem to find the irony in seeing that his behavior on these boards as an example spokesperson for the left of center crowd and Kerry’s gaffe have the same sort of effect in allowing trolls to sideline the actual conversation that might have been going on.

    And for record, I never defended Kerry. I’m not sure what part of “gaffe,” which I obviously characterized Kerry’s statement as, you missed in your ever so expansive learning on how to be right in all discussions you participate in.

  26. 26.

    Darrell

    November 1, 2006 at 4:15 pm

    Pb, the Winter soldier “investigation” was lead by Jane Fonda, Dick Gregory, Tom Hayden, and a who’s who list of 60’s anti-war leftists.

    How honest and credible of you to cite the results of their “findings”

  27. 27.

    zzyzx

    November 1, 2006 at 4:41 pm

    Actually this is potentially great for the Democrats IMO. The Republicans’ strategy (as witnessed on Red State, talk radio, and NRO) is to find some incredible slight and pump that up as the reason for the base to come out. They thought that Kerry finally gave them what they wanted.

    However, Kerry is so irrelevant to this election that it will be hard to get people to care as much as if it were someone running who made the comment. Now that he’s backing down, come Friday or Saturday, it’ll be sillier and sillier to keep complaining about this. The Democrats can talk about the issues and the Republicans talk about John Kerry. By the time the Republicans try to get a new outrage to complain about, it’ll be too late.

    If I thought that Kerry were that savvy, I’d say he intentionally laid a trap.

  28. 28.

    capelza

    November 1, 2006 at 4:42 pm

    How wold are you Darrell?

  29. 29.

    capelza

    November 1, 2006 at 4:42 pm

    How old are you Darrell?

  30. 30.

    jaime

    November 1, 2006 at 4:43 pm

    Kerry apologized for botching a joke leaving a wrong impression.

    Republicans want him to apologe for calling the troops stupid. They will accept nothing less. Which is why all the fake outrage.

  31. 31.

    jcricket

    November 1, 2006 at 4:46 pm

    John, John, John. I know you’re gunning for a check from Soros, but if you want to show us that you weren’t a Democratic plant all along you’d rephrase your final question as:

    What, you say? Iraq is still a mess? Shit. How aren’t the Democrats causing us to fail?

    Remember, it’s always phrased in the rhetorical, negative, J’accuse sense?

    The question for you is: Do you want us or the terrorists to win?

  32. 32.

    Mike S

    November 1, 2006 at 4:46 pm

    Pb, the Winter soldier “investigation” was lead by Jane Fonda, Dick Gregory, Tom Hayden, and a who’s who list of 60’s anti-war leftists.

    How about an investigation by the Armed Services?

    The files are part of a once-secret archive, assembled by a Pentagon task force in the early 1970s, that shows that confirmed atrocities by U.S. forces in Vietnam were more extensive than was previously known.

    The documents detail 320 alleged incidents that were substantiated by Army investigators — not including the most notorious U.S. atrocity, the 1968 My Lai massacre.

    Though not a complete accounting of Vietnam war crimes, the archive is the largest such collection to surface to date. About 9,000 pages, it includes investigative files, sworn statements by witnesses and status reports for top military brass.

    The records describe recurrent attacks on ordinary Vietnamese — families in their homes, farmers in rice paddies, teenagers out fishing. Hundreds of soldiers, in interviews with investigators and letters to commanders, described a violent minority who murdered, raped and tortured with impunity.

    Abuses were not confined to a few rogue units, a Times review of the files found. They were uncovered in every Army division that operated in Vietnam.

    I’m sure you’ll find some way to dismiss this story, Darrell. It doesn’t fit into your delusional world.

  33. 33.

    Mike S

    November 1, 2006 at 4:51 pm

    BTW. Republicans are trying to make the troops miserable with all of this. They want the troops to believe that Kerry called them stupid regardless of what it does for morale.

    Today Tony Snow was asked if he believed that Kerry was calling the troops stupid and he said that it didn’t matter what the President thought.

    That’s a tacit admission that the President doesn’t believe the GOP’s mock outrage either.

  34. 34.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 4:51 pm

    Context is not legalese, it’s closer to grammar. It’s also a vital element required for the proper understanding of news stories, often omitted by those who would spin them.

    If the context don’t fit, you must acquit? Fair enough.

    But anyway, here’s a context story for you: Did you hear the one about the presidential nominee who couldn’t make a speech about maybe the worst policy disaster in American history without fucking it up so bad that HE became the butt of the next few news cycles?

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    groan.

  35. 35.

    jcricket

    November 1, 2006 at 4:52 pm

    Oh, and here’s some more objectively pro-terrorist proof that Kerry and the Democrat’s hatred for troops have pushed Iraq deeper into hell.

    Preview: “Iraq: Not secure enough for mercenaries. Helluva job.”

  36. 36.

    Perry Como

    November 1, 2006 at 4:54 pm

    I am quoting this from Kerry because he testified about it to Congress and that gives me the impression that he believed it.

    I thought we covered this yesterday. Everyone promises not to vote for John Kerry in this upcoming election!

  37. 37.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 4:54 pm

    Well there you have it, the Pentagon hates the troops as do the facts of the matter. Damn them both and their liberal bias.

  38. 38.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 4:58 pm

    This just gets worse and worse, now context hates the phony outrage of those whose true Americanism requires the hatred of the Pentagon, the facts of the matter, and badly made jokes.

  39. 39.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 5:01 pm

    BREAKING NEWS
    MSNBC News Services
    Updated: 14 minutes ago
    WASHINGTON – Thrust into the midst of the midterm election campaign, Sen. John Kerry apologized Wednesday to “any service member, family member or American who was offended” by remarks deemed by Republicans and Democrats alike to be insulting to U.S. forces in Iraq.

    Six days before the election, the 2004 Democratic presidential nominee said he sincerely regretted his words were “misinterpreted to imply anything negative about those in uniform.”

    In a brief statement, Kerry attacked President Bush for a “failed security policy.” Yet his apology, issued after prominent Democrats had urged him to cancel public appearances, was designed to quell a controversy that party leaders feared would stall their drive for big gains on Nov. 7.

    So, it’s almost 5:00 pm Washington time, Kerry has finally realized that no Dems are really coming to his rescue on this, and that most of them are running away from so fast they have created a vacuum that might start another hurricane season …. and he had to make the apology that he would have made YESTERDAY if his head had not been all the way up his ass and back out his neck. How mature of him.

    What a frigging idiot.

  40. 40.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 5:03 pm

    While it pales next to kerry’s verbal ineptitude, new allegations of the mistreatment (it can’t be torture cause they say they don’t) of an American citizen by the Administration in pursuit of truth justice and the American way.

  41. 41.

    The Truffle

    November 1, 2006 at 5:05 pm

    Enough of Kerry and the troops. Actions count as much as words. Case in point: The Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America have ranked our senators and congresscritters according to how they vote on legislation affecting American soldiers, veterans, and military families.

    Kerry received a B from the IAVA, indicating a good voting record.

    More here:

    http://capwiz.com/iava/bio/?id=298&lvl=C&chamber=S

    And here is a breakdown of how he voted:

    http://capwiz.com/iava/bio/keyvotes/?id=298&lvl=C

    The much-lauded John McCain, meanwhile, received a D.

  42. 42.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 5:05 pm

    But anyway, here’s a context story for you: Did you hear the one about the presidential nominee who couldn’t make a speech about maybe the worst policy disaster in American history without fucking it up so bad that HE became the butt of the next few news cycles?

    Yeah well the damned liberal media kept giving Bush a pass, so this sounds more like wishful thinking than a joke.

  43. 43.

    Vladi G

    November 1, 2006 at 5:05 pm

    I wonder if Darrel the serial liar was upset when President Bush said that his administration was working on new ways to harm the American people?

    “Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”

  44. 44.

    The Other Steve

    November 1, 2006 at 5:07 pm

    So, it’s almost 5:00 pm Washington time, Kerry has finally realized that no Dems are really coming to his rescue on this, and that most of them are running away from so fast they have created a vacuum that might start another hurricane season …. and he had to make the apology that he would have made YESTERDAY if his head had not been all the way up his ass and back out his neck. How mature of him.

    I want to make an especial thank you to ThymeZone for enabling the Republicans. Without your help, they could never have succeeded in liberating Iraq from John Kerry’s bungled joke.

  45. 45.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 5:10 pm

    I want to make an especial thank you to ThymeZone for enabling the Republicans. Without your help, they could never have succeeded in liberating Iraq from John Kerry’s bungled joke.

    You’re a bungled joke.

  46. 46.

    Vladi G

    November 1, 2006 at 5:13 pm

    So, it’s almost 5:00 pm Washington time, Kerry has finally realized that no Dems are really coming to his rescue on this, and that most of them are running away from so fast they have created a vacuum that might start another hurricane season

    Are you fucking stupid? Is this the only site you ever visit?

    How many times does Kerry have to apologize before you pull your head out of your ass?

  47. 47.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 5:14 pm

    It is odd how words often lose their meaning in the heat of debate. To regret that those too stupid to know that they have been called stupid misunderstood, or perhaps misunderestimated, is not to appologize it is to regret the stupid flagrantly false outrage of those determined to misunderstand, because they misunderestimate the extent to which nobody cared.

  48. 48.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 5:15 pm

    Top story, CNN: Kerry apologizes.

    Top story, MSNBC: Kerry apologizes.

    Top story, FoxNews: Kerry apologizes.

    Front Page: NYTimes: Kerry apologizes.

    Top story, WashingtonPost: Kerry apologizes.

    Nah, there was never anything to this. Tempest in a teapot.

  49. 49.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 5:18 pm

    And this video makes all the talking points that might in this case be necessary, re jokes, soldiers and incompetence, verbal and or otherwise.

  50. 50.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 5:19 pm

    This is a joke? “Education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”

    That’s worse than voting for the $87 billion before you voted against it.

    Even his former spokesman, Mike McCurry, said on CBS that Kerry should apologize, and that he more or less had. But he hasn’t, and that’s the problem.

    Even his Republican pal John McCain, whom Kerry courted as his running mate last time around, felt compelled to slam his fellow veteran for insensitivity.

    If you think Democrats aren’t steamed, guess again.

    Kerry’s brave Vietnam service was unfairly denigrated in the last campaign. But this is a totally self-inflicted wound.

    The mean little media whore Howard Kurtz gets a chance to spit on Kerry. Now THAT’S some smart politickin’!

    “Totally self-inflicted wound.” No shit.

  51. 51.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 5:25 pm

    Yes indeed the emphasis put on the story by the dolts with the volts to give the folks the news and views prove that it matters. Gottcha. Indeedly do, I shall now form my opinion of what information is of consequence based on how many times it appears on the news. Yes indeedy, indeed, I shall now and forever forswear making the point that news media makes mole hills out of mountains and mountains out of mole hills. Why I will now rethink my support of the NYT reporting on super doulbe secret state secrets because many news agencies carried reports pointing out the wretchedness of those American-troop hating liberals hatred of troops, America, and what is more there deranged liberalism. The media speaks and I listen, trimming my sails accordingly.

  52. 52.

    Teak111

    November 1, 2006 at 5:30 pm

    God not John Kerry again. Please, somebody get him off the stage. I’ve never had to hold my nose so tight while voting for a candidate then when I pulled the lever for JK in 2004. Believe me, it was god awful. Nows he’s back to haunting us again, the undertaker, right in time for Halloween. But if this little incident turns votes, this country is doomed, it truely is.

  53. 53.

    BadTux

    November 1, 2006 at 5:34 pm

    Who is this “John” person everybody is talking about? I seem to recall some Presidential candidate with that name, but he turned out to be a chickenshit too scared to fight for the Presidency, so I promptly forgot about him. Now there’s this “John” person going around making all these, like, MOUTH NOISES. Hmm. Should I pay attention to him? Naw, as far as I can tell he’s just some washed-up old pol who left his balls in D.C. and isn’t running for any office this year. I’m paying attention to my local races, particularly the Governator vs. “Phil who?”.

    Badtux the “John who?” Penguin

  54. 54.

    Teak111

    November 1, 2006 at 5:40 pm

    Kerry has got to be a Rove special agent. There is no other way to explain why a man not running for any office sticks his foot in his mouth and sets off a firestorm that kills any Mo the dems had going into Tuesday. Jesus Christ come take me now. I’m now convinced that both Kerry and Nadar work for Rove. Gotta be, what other explanation is there? The timing is too perfect. Please, another page scandal or N-bomb test or youth riot in France. I’ll take a wildfire in CA (as long as nobody is hurt) or an activits judge ruling. Anything!!!!

  55. 55.

    jcricket

    November 1, 2006 at 5:49 pm

    Nah, there was never anything to this. Tempest in a teapot.

    Calm the fuck down ThymeZone. It’s this type of relentless escalation of responses on a single subject on your part that got you b*nned the last time.

    We get it. You hate Kerry. You think he made one of the most supremely bone-headed tactical maneuvers in the history of political campaigns. He will now and forever go down as the worst former presidential candidate ever. Blah blah blah.

    The truth is Kerry put his foot in his mouth, the timing was bad, and the Republicans seized on it (as we did when Bush said “stay the course? never heard of it”). The difference is, of course that Democrats embraced the Republican frame of the situation and, in their fear of looking weak, acted in a way to confirm that they are weak.

    Again, we promise not to vote for Kerry this election. Can you talk about something else now?

  56. 56.

    Darrell

    November 1, 2006 at 5:55 pm

    Enough of Kerry and the troops. Actions count as much as words. Case in point: The Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America have ranked our senators and congresscritters according to how they vote on legislation affecting American soldiers, veterans, and military families.

    Kerry received a B from the IAVA, indicating a good voting record.

    More here:

    Paul Rieckhoff, Founder of IAVA, was a delegate to the 2004 Democratic National Convention and a New York State Chairman for Veterans for Kerry. I’m sure his judgement regarding Kerry’s voting record is entirely fair and objective.

  57. 57.

    The Other Steve

    November 1, 2006 at 5:56 pm

    Nah, there was never anything to this. Tempest in a teapot.

    There wasn’t. The media wanted to play their horse race game, and you were too concerned with whether or not Michelle Malkin thought Democrats were big meanies to realize that and not play along.

    Well done, Republican enabler. Without your hard work, the media wouldn’t have had bipartisan support for their non-story.

  58. 58.

    The Other Steve

    November 1, 2006 at 5:57 pm

    Paul Rieckhoff, Founder of IAVA, was a delegate to the 2004 Democratic National Convention and a New York State Chairman for Veterans for Kerry. I’m sure his judgement regarding Kerry’s voting record is entirely fair and objective.

    I’m sure Darrell’s judgement of Paul Rieckhoff’s judgement is entirely fair and objective.

  59. 59.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 5:57 pm

    I’m sure his judgement regarding Kerry’s voting record is entirely fair and objective.

    Well then we can put all talk of Kerry’s dissing, as the kids say, the troops. Thanks Darrel and thanks for ending a particularly unhelpful misunderstanding of a decorated war-hero’s badly told joke.

  60. 60.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 6:00 pm

    By the way, although I haven’t read this anywhere but then again I have not read that it didn’t happen; I honestly believe that President Bush called Senator Kerry and told he thought the joke was funny. After which they sang Whiffenpoof and told tales of the secret nights in Skull and Bones and who it was stole Poncho Villa’s skull.

  61. 61.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 6:03 pm

    Paul Rieckhoff, Founder of IAVA, was a delegate to the 2004 Democratic National Convention and a New York State Chairman for Veterans for Kerry. I’m sure his judgement regarding Kerry’s voting record is entirely fair and objective.

    Wait, wait, attention to context suggest that Darrel was being the sarcastic. Damn that context and its ability to overcome the misleading and misreading of truncated quotation.

  62. 62.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 6:04 pm

    There wasn’t. The media wanted to play their horse race game, and you were too concerned with whether or not Michelle Malkin thought Democrats were big meanies to realize that and not play along.

    Well done, Republican enabler. Without your hard work, the media wouldn’t have had bipartisan support for their non-story.

    I say it again, you are the biggest waste of bandwidth on this blog. Bigger than Darrell, and that is truly saying something.

  63. 63.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 6:04 pm

    Well done, Republican enabler. Without your hard work, the media wouldn’t have had bipartisan support for their non-story.

    Just to continue posting too much, I am not sure this is a case of enabling but rather a case of not taking a step back and thinking through the difference between what happened and what was said to have happened.

  64. 64.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 6:09 pm

    You know it is kind like “the scream” if you play the damn thing Dean sound like a kook. If you play and watch the lead up you can see Harkin applauding like mad and his eyes growing wide with enthusiasm. Context matters. The compliant here, made with great affect by Media Matters, is that the context goes missing. Let us get anger at those who hate context. Like NPR

  65. 65.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 6:13 pm

    MATTHEWS: Mr. Armey, what do you make of this — well, it’s a rhubarb I guess, in politics terms. What is it? Is this a real “catch him,” “we got him,” or is it they’re making it look like they’ve got Kerry saying something?

    ARMEY: Well, it’s pretty standard fare in political discourse. You misconstrue what somebody said, you isolate a statement, you lend your interpretation to it, then feign moral outrage; and Democrats have been doing it for years.

    From Media Matters. GAdzooks normal political fare, disregard context, give the worst spin, or interpretation, possible. Who knew such dishonesty could take place in a place as fine as this land o’ mine.

  66. 66.

    Steve

    November 1, 2006 at 6:14 pm

    Is that right? Just the other day someone told me that if you watch it, you see Harkin looking uncomfortable. I’m almost afraid to check for myself now.

  67. 67.

    Bombadil

    November 1, 2006 at 6:20 pm

    Hey, TZ? You’re pissed at Kerry. We get it. You can shut up about it now.

  68. 68.

    Steve

    November 1, 2006 at 6:21 pm

    Isn’t it amazing, by the way, that there is NO SOURCE in this country that can be trusted, other than the Republican Party? EVERY SINGLE PERSON who has criticized this administration or said anything good about Democrats has not only been wrong, they’ve been utterly discredited. It’s just amazing. You wonder if these people experience cognitive dissonance at all after accusing the 1234th consecutive person of partisan bias.

  69. 69.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 6:26 pm

    I confess, I am working, re Harkin, from memory. By my recollection is that he was applauding and clearly caught up in the rising and rousing rhetorical flourish that Dean offer his troops, who some might hate, so that they would despair not. But I could easily be wrong, as I too fear that fact might defeat memory.

  70. 70.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 6:27 pm

    You’re pissed at Kerry. We get it. You can shut up about it now.

    I’ll shut up when I feel like shutting up.

  71. 71.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 6:28 pm

    It is odd how the dopey, left, right, and center, once their intellectual trotters find the trough are not disloged when their thoughts and prediction are exposed as fictions.

  72. 72.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 6:32 pm

    I am not sure this is a case of enabling but rather a case of not taking a step back

    Not sure? Let me help you out. It’s a case of having the same correct and sensible reaction that just about every Democrat politician and political staffer in the country had, and for the same reason. Kerry’s an ass, he put his own ego above the good of his party, and he prolonged this flap at least a day longer than necessary because he was hoping that Dems would rush to his defense and make him feel better. They did essentially the opposite and luckily were able to pressure him into doing the right thing that he should have done 24 hours earlier before he managed to fuck up yet another news cycle.

  73. 73.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 6:37 pm

    One version another version with Harkin, he looks happy to me.

  74. 74.

    Geek, Esq.

    November 1, 2006 at 6:38 pm

    They beat Kerry! Woo hoo!

    The silver lining for Democrats is that he’s out for 2008. In his usual fashion, he gave four versions of what he was thinking, managing to piss everyone off and please no one..

    Republicans, as much as they hate him, are going to miss him in a couple of years.

  75. 75.

    Steve

    November 1, 2006 at 6:40 pm

    It’s a case of having the same correct and sensible reaction that just about every Democrat politician and political staffer in the country had, and for the same reason.

    Bob Casey:

    “John Kerry is not only a great leader for the Democratic party and a great U.S. senator, but he’s a patriot,” Casey said after a morning political rally in Allentown. “He said he botched a joke and I think that is the beginning and the end of it. He was talking about the president and I think he has every right to criticize this president.”

    Sherrod Brown:

    Rep. Sherrod Brown, a Democrat leading in late polls in his bid to unseat Republican Sen. Mike DeWine, said Republicans are merely trying to change the subject. “The people who should apologize are George Bush and Mike DeWine for sending our troops into battle without body armor and without examining the cooked intelligence,” he said.

    Eric Massa:

    Congressional candidate and 24-year Navy veteran Eric Massa today responded to the current flap over Senator John Kerry’s remarks about the war in Iraq, and to a request from his opponent, incumbent Randy Kuhl. The Kuhl campaign this morning called on Massa to disavow Kerry’s remarks, and to return any money donated from Kerry’s Political Action Committee.

    Massa said, “Randy Kuhl’s so-called challenge is nonsense. Our fighting men and women in Iraq are the finest force in the world, but they’re stuck with weak and dishonest civilian leadership. Randy Kuhl has done nothing to support the troops, and just toes the Washington line about ‘staying the course.’ General John Batiste characterized Kuhl and his position as ‘uninformed’ and ‘lacking moral courage.’ Enough said.”

    Massa added, “George Bush and John Kerry and Randy Kuhl have had their chance and failed to bring home either victory or the troops. It’s time for a change down in Washington, and change is coming on Tuesday.”

    I don’t blame the Dems who decided they don’t want any part of the Kerry controversy. But let’s be fair here. An apology wouldn’t have instantly made the thing go away, and waiting for 24 hours didn’t make it some huge negative for the party. Plenty of Dems in tough races found a way to turn this to their advantage.

  76. 76.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 6:45 pm

    Let us say, for the sake of argument, that what you assert is the fact of the matter. Watch the two videos above and then tell me that Dean’s aw shucks I just got excited schtick, which I saw on Letterman, was a better plan than pointing out that each and ever later iteration of “the scream” was a wrong-headed and flatly false interepretation of the event. Kerry, ass though he may be and irritant to the Dems he clearly seems, might then be right to insist that those who seek to critique his utterance do so on the grounds made mushy with lies and willful misinterpretation. He was insulting the president, although my understanding is the president’s GPA was higher, for failiing to take advantage of the skills and abilities granted to those who study. You and others, both here and in the real world chose to focus on what was said to have happened and you decry Kerry for not accepting that what was said is to have happened was more powerful than that which happened. Fine. I disagree. Kerry and the Dems ought to have made the point over and ovcer and over again, my friend, that not only is this the eve of destruction but that the current crop are so blind to reality and so desparate for aid and comfort that they lie yet again about a decorated war hero’s attitude toward the troops. Call me sentimental and so on, but in my heart of hearts, I honestly belive, and can when pushed fine a fact or two to back it up, that the facts of the matter can convince the American people that the lies are in fact lies. But then again, I could be wrong.

  77. 77.

    Steve

    November 1, 2006 at 6:47 pm

    Watch the two videos above and then tell me that Dean’s aw shucks I just got excited schtick, which I saw on Letterman, was a better plan than pointing out that each and ever later iteration of “the scream” was a wrong-headed and flatly false interepretation of the event.

    Dean was done. There is no alternative scenario under which that bacon gets saved. Even I saw the speech one time and was like “ehhh, this guy doesn’t seem very presidential.”

  78. 78.

    Andrei

    November 1, 2006 at 6:48 pm

    I’ll shut up when I feel like shutting up.

    Obviously… ppGaz’s advice is good for the goose but not for the gander. More worthy write ups on this short term dust up and how to react to them from better sources than our resident self-proclaimed example of why should be a “lefty”…

    Hey, Look over there!

    Supporting the Troops

    Kerry’s an ass, he put his own ego above the good of his party, and he prolonged this flap at least a day longer than necessary because he was hoping that Dems would rush to his defense and make him feel better.

    Reactions like ppGaz’s to a gaffe like Kerry’s can be argued are closer to the real reason why the Dems lose. IOW, turning so vehemently on other Democrats for what Digby calls “trivial bullshit” and so quickly does more harm than taking advantage of the moment and turning it on its head.

  79. 79.

    craigie

    November 1, 2006 at 6:52 pm

    What, you say? Iraq is still a mess? Shit. How are the Democrats causing us to fail now?

    Fucking funny. God I love the smell of shrill in the afternoon!

  80. 80.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 6:53 pm

    Steve,
    One alternate universe in which the bacon gets saved is one in which a speech designed to pump up the vols is represented as a speech designed to pump of the vols and not the ultimate decider, to use a popular notion, of Dean’s presidentiality, if that is a word. Others may say what they like but context, which includes aspects like purpose, audience, and the like matters, the speech and scream, which was only a brief moment in a fine and rousing oration; it was not its central message nor was it so out of place that Dean looks the fool. At least as I read the traces of that particular happening.

  81. 81.

    Tsulagi

    November 1, 2006 at 6:59 pm

    Those three Dem candidates Steve mentioned did exactly what they should have done. Slap it back at them and Bush. Every time it’s brought up, turn it around to Bush and his ass-up Congress. Gives them an opportunity to point out this is what the midterms are about.

    McCain in this thing really pisses me off. I would have voted for that sucker in 2000. He has really slid downhill. Guess that’s what happens being around these “grownups” in charge sucking on Dobson’s tit.

  82. 82.

    Pb

    November 1, 2006 at 7:02 pm

    Man, I bet the media would have had a field day with this quote…

    Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.

    …if John Kerry had said it…

  83. 83.

    Bruce Moomaw

    November 1, 2006 at 7:04 pm

    As God is my witness, Bush appared on Limbaugh’s show today and the two of them spent most of the show attacking Kerry for supporting rich Vietnam War draft-dodgers. (See the end of the Washington Post’s article, “Kerry Apologizes, Calls Remarks a ‘Botched Joke’ “.) You really cannot make some of this stuff up.

  84. 84.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 7:05 pm

    One other point, when I saw Dean, I thought man that is some passion for what he is doing. Indeed, the reason I remember the event so clearly is it struck me then that there was a radical difference between what had happened and what was said to have happened. It is not clear, to me in any event, that am alone here, Dean did, after all, become something of a big deal in the Democratic Party.

  85. 85.

    Tsulagi

    November 1, 2006 at 7:12 pm

    Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.

    I loved that one. One of the few damn times Bush told the truth.

  86. 86.

    tBone

    November 1, 2006 at 7:13 pm

    expressing an article of faith (soldiers are dead-enders) believed by many/most on the left.

    Let’s see:

    One of my best friends, currently in Iraq.
    One of my first cousins, also in Iraq.
    The husband of one of my wife’s best friends – you guessed it, in Iraq.
    One of my brother-in-laws – likely headed for Iraq early next year.
    Another first cousin – 20-year Air Force vet.
    Yet another first cousin – currently an Army recruiter.
    One of my uncles – 20+ years in the Army.
    My brother – former Marine.

    Deadenders, all of them. Can’t stand ’em. I guess you’re right, Darrell.

  87. 87.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 7:20 pm

    Reactions like ppGaz’s to a gaffe like Kerry’s can be argued are closer to the real reason why the Dems lose.

    That’s right, Dems lose because they try to avoid completely stupid, unnecessary, gratuitous collossal political blunders and shoving both their feet in their mouths.

    Idiot. Dems lose because a fucked up primary system gives us candidates like John Kerry, a guy with all the credentials who couldn’t beat the likes of George Bush.

    Get a fucking clue.

  88. 88.

    Steve

    November 1, 2006 at 7:20 pm

    As God is my witness, Bush appared on Limbaugh’s show today and the two of them spent most of the show attacking Kerry for supporting rich Vietnam War draft-dodgers.

    Bush and Cheney regularly appear on Limbaugh’s show… but remember, friends, it’s the Democrats who are in the grip of their party’s extremist wing! What’s amusing is that you could add Limbaugh’s favorability rating to Cheney’s and you still wouldn’t hit 50%.

  89. 89.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 7:25 pm

    Context and full quotes:

    IOW, turning so vehemently on other Democrats for what Digby calls “trivial bullshit” and so quickly does more harm than taking advantage of the moment and turning it on its head.

  90. 90.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 7:27 pm

    Watch the two videos above and then tell me that Dean’s aw shucks I just got excited schtick, which I saw on Letterman, was a better plan than pointing out that each and ever later iteration of “the scream” was a wrong-headed and flatly false interepretation of the event. Kerry, ass though he may be and irritant to the Dems he clearly seems,

    No thanks, I’ll watch no videos right now, maybe some other time. But any comparison between Kerry’s fuckup and Dean’s scream is completely inapt. And especially inapt is any comparison between the after-event responses.

    Dean didn’t puff himself up in front of the cameras and throw a huge tantrum about how he was “sick and tired” of the opposition, about how anyone who misunderstood him was “crazy”. He just said, I did it, it was in the moment, I own it. That’s it.

    Kerry could have ended the thing yesterday by essentially saying what he said at 5 pm ET today after his party basically told him to, without having to be pressured into it. But he’s an ass. He wanted to have his tantrum, and he didn’t give a rat’s ass who didn’t like it. Fine attitude for bloggers to have, who cares? But he’s a major player on a national stage. As this event proved beyond a doubt AFAIC, he doesn’t belong on that stage. If there was ever any doubt how this guy could get whole legions of veterans to hate his guts, now you know.

    Hopefully he will sit in a dark room somewhere with duct tape over his big mouth until the election is over. Or maybe he can get a job giving political advice to Steve and Steve?

  91. 91.

    Steve

    November 1, 2006 at 7:31 pm

    I have a coworker who spent a lot of time working for Kerry in 2004. I went down the hall and asked him why his guy was such a fucking idiot. It felt good.

  92. 92.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 7:36 pm

    It is not clear to me, in any event, how calling President Bush and idiot whose dunderheadedness led to the mess in Iraq translates into an attack on the military. Just because varous and sundry dopes in the media wish to make Kerry’s utterance mean the opposite of what it meant. This is not his fault, in the way you suggest, it is the fault of those who misrepresent reality for no good reason. Dick Armey and the Corner boy cited about saw this clear as day. Kerry’s utterance was twisted. On some level or another, your advice to the Dems is and has been to say little to nothing. This policy, it seems to me, is a disaster. They and their supporters need to be out and about each and every day hammering home the message Kerry delivered, or tried to deliver, this administration is a case of the brain dead leading the venal.

    I disagree as well about Dean “owning” his “scream”; he allowed the scream to be transformed into something it was most decidedly not, as read it then and as I read it now. What he owned was a false representation; as to why he owned it, I cannot possible say, somepeople own cars, which is just as stupid.

  93. 93.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 7:36 pm

    Let us say, for the sake of argument, that what you assert is the fact of the matter.

    No, let me say for the record, and not for the sake of argument, that what I assert is what most of the Democratic party professionals are thinking. Sorry, their judgement about this is right whether you agree with it or not. And their judgement about it is that Kerry is probably the kind of guy who would see a fellow politician drowning in a river, and throw him both ends of the same rope.

    After you read PhonyCentristSteve’s bullshit post above, ask him why he thinks Kerry caved right before evening news time today? Because the power Dems were calling him all day and telling him to hang in there, to Give Em Hell?

    Right. That must be it. Get a clue. They told him to make a proper apology, and he finally got the message, a day late and a dollar short.

  94. 94.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 7:39 pm

    It is not clear to me, in any event, how calling President Bush and idiot whose dunderheadedness led to the mess in Iraq translates into an attack on the military.

    In No Controlling Legal Authority land, in “context” land, in Parse My Statement land, it’s not. I know what he meant to do. The problem is, he is so arrogant and stupid that he didn’t even bother to craft a proper version of his so-called “joke.” He is so completely blind and deaf to the animosity toward him out there among his peers that he didn’t get the impact of his gaffe even after he’d made it. He is so full of himself that even when the political windstorm blew right in his face, he didn’t have the sense and the class to just say — basically what demi wrote yesterday. A nice, sincere apology that would have started a shutdown of the story YESTERDAY. Nope.

    Tantrum time. “I’m sick and tired” he said.

    Wow. Kerry, sick and tired. Jesus weeps even now. Such a noble man.

  95. 95.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 7:41 pm

    You may be right, the Democratic party professionals have done a bang up job of leading the one-time natrual party of government back to the majority. Indeed, from Reagan on the Democratic Party professionals have shown an astuteness and acuteness in their plans and policies. That is why the Democratic Party is once again the natural party of government. Oh, just a sec.

  96. 96.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 7:43 pm

    I disagree as well about Dean “owning” his “scream”; he allowed the scream to be transformed into something it was most decidedly not

    Well, there’s no comvenient defense against gratuitous rewriting of history, j. I was face-first into the tv at the time, heard and saw it all, and what I saw was Dean graciously taking ownership of the thing and going forward as best he could. He didn’t really have control of the news monster at that point. The fact is, the news monster was pretty much out to get him, and they got him.

    Kerry is not such a victim. He’s the monster in this story. He doesn’t give a flying fig about the damage he may have done. I am quite sure that if he hadn’t been pressured into making that apology today he’d still be thrusting his feet into his esophagus as we speak.

  97. 97.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 7:44 pm

    the Democratic party professionals have done a bang up job of leading the one-time natrual party of government back to the majority

    Oh, I absolutely agree with your point here, and nobody on these pages has been harder on the Dem establishment than yours truly.

    However, the remedy is not John Fucking Kerry, trust me.

  98. 98.

    Steve

    November 1, 2006 at 7:45 pm

    After you read PhonyCentristSteve’s bullshit post above, ask him why he thinks Kerry caved right before evening news time today? Because the power Dems were calling him all day and telling him to hang in there, to Give Em Hell?

    Hm? Are you really meaning to poke me with a sharp object?

  99. 99.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 7:49 pm

    Two points
    I too was face first and the videos to which I linked above are versions of the scream that show, I think, that the scream was not as it was or is represented. My recollection differs, as does my interpretation. This is not a “rewriting” in the sense you seem to suggest. I am not, in other words, being intentionally dishonest.

    I do not understand, given you stated dislike of the Democratic Party professionals, how you can them attempt to appeal to their athority in an argument about political strategy and tactics.

  100. 100.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 7:58 pm

    how you can them attempt to appeal to their athority in an argument about political strategy and tactics.

    “Appeal to their authority?” Jesus, you guys are a bunch, I must say. One load of crap after another.

    I’m not “appealing to their authority.” I’m telling they are right and I agree with them. I don’t give a fuck about their “authority.” But any political pro, GOP or DEM, knew from the first hour that this was a complete fuckup by Kerry and that every day that went by without him making a real apology was a day in their column.

    You seem to have no idea how much that man is despised out there. HRC got it right today: The last thing we want to do is make this election a replay of 2004.

    How much simpler, plainer, and righter than that it can be made, I don’t know. You either get that or you don’t.

    All the rest is just bullshit.

    I’m no particular fan of HRC, but she didn’t get where she is now by being dead wrong about something as obvious and basic as this political situation. Shit, even George Bush got this one right, and it probably took him three seconds to do it.

  101. 101.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 8:00 pm

    Of course none of this matters as the voting machines would seem to be biased.

  102. 102.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 8:00 pm

    I am not, in other words, being intentionally dishonest.

    I know, it was unintentional.

    Sorry, you set me up a straight line there. Just kidding.

    I don’t think you are being dishonest at all. Just wrong.

    I still admire your work here, and all that.

  103. 103.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 8:03 pm

    When someone uses a line like

    No, let me say for the record, and not for the sake of argument, that what I assert is what most of the Democratic party professionals are thinking. Sorry, their judgement about this is right whether you agree with it or not

    it is difficult to see how the authority of the person cited is not being used as an authority to buttress your position. Sort of like Mr. JC refering to his profession in an argument about propganda.

  104. 104.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 8:05 pm

    Well, actually what you might maybe mean to say is that you disagree with me not

    Well, there’s no comvenient defense against gratuitous rewriting of history,

    A sentence that places gratuitious and rewriting in a very close and decidedly unpleasant connection.

  105. 105.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 8:05 pm

    Whatever. I don’t equate judgment with authority.

    They’re just right because they are right.

  106. 106.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 8:07 pm

    And what you also might maybe want to consider is that if your position finds favor with those you think chumps, then your position might maybe need another look.

  107. 107.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 8:09 pm

    A sentence that places gratuitious and rewriting in a very close and decidedly unpleasant connection

    Strike the gratuitous. Unwarranted on my part.

  108. 108.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 8:12 pm

    Strike the gratuitous. Unwarranted on my part.

    Done and dnoe

  109. 109.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 8:14 pm

    And what you also might maybe want to consider is that if your position finds favor with those you think chumps, then your position might maybe need another look.

    You argue like my wife.

    Which is not what it seems, since she generally wins. But not because she is right, but because I give up.

    I did not call them chumps. If you want to describe them in a fashion fully relevant to this discussion, and in a way that is congruent with my position, then you will need to find out what my description would be, and then use that.

    Otherwise you are just making up my argument and then arguing with it.

    My description of them here would be “self serving,” first and foremost, which is a character judgement mostly, and has nothing to do with the political realities here.

    Second, I would describe them as politically astute, which is one reason they are where they are.

    And this situation speaks to the latter. This is a basic, Politics 101 deal, a gut deal. In politics, I trust my instincts, and my instincts on this one were immediate and right on the mark: That pompous asshole has shot the Democratic party in the ass once again.

  110. 110.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 8:17 pm

    Two points

    How can one be, as you suggested you are, consistently critical of a group and not find them chumps?

    How is that your “instincts” have been proven correct? As near as I can follow all this stuff about Kerry has to do with its potential effect on the up-coming election. Inasmuch as the election has yet to occur, no one can be ajudged the astutinator.

  111. 111.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 8:22 pm

    And just to be totally clear here, note that I consider Kerry to be one of them, one of the self-serving, one of the politically astute, one of the Dem old guard. Part of the problem.

    But he’s unique among them. First, he’s a nominee. Second, he’s ….. Kerry, the “war hero,” the despised war protester, the target of the Swifties, a bigger than life figure in some ways.

    He carries a great responsibility (which he betrayed here, first by being careless with his speech, and then by throwing a tantrum when called out on it). He attracts great media attention. He is considered a player in the 2008 derby, by some. He is an icon of Dem vulnerability to the GOP faithful. He is the symbol of “weak on defense” and wishy-washy policy, deserved or not. He is considered by many on the right to be a guy who trashed the American military and still won’t own up to it.

    Here, he actually made himself a brief chance to help repair some of that crummy image and help his party at the same time. He could have forgone the tantrums last night, and instead made a lofty speech about the troops and his support for them … but no, it was “I’m sick and tired.”

    So instead of a plus, we got “sick and tired.” That’s Kerry in a nutshell. He was sick and tired, get off his fucking back. Right?

  112. 112.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 8:23 pm

    no one can be ajudged the astutinator.

    Whatever. You’re right, honey.

    What’s for dinner?

  113. 113.

    Steve

    November 1, 2006 at 8:26 pm

    He is considered a player in the 2008 derby, by some one.

    FYP

  114. 114.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 8:27 pm

    What you offer about Kerry place in the world is all true enough, although I would have said was a nominee. Nonetheless, I am not sure how any of this shows that he ought to lay down when his words were purposefully misrepresented. One way, I would suggest, for the Dems to get out of the hole created for them by the professional politician minders and handlers, is to stop allowing the framing of every story to fall to those who have no interest in the truth.

  115. 115.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 8:29 pm

    Whatever. You’re right, honey.

    If you don’t want to argue than don’t. If you think that the argument has reached the point were further discussion is pointless, then say so. Sure it is a “blog” and its name is “Ballon Juice” and all, but still civility is a quality sadly lacking and one that we ought, with the possible exception of Darrel, extend to all and sundry.

  116. 116.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 8:30 pm

    Steve, the professional confuser, speaks.

    “Kerry 2008.” Google, 4,790,000 hits.

    Yeah, I’m fucking making it up, Steve.

    What a frigging idiot and waste of space you are here.

  117. 117.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 8:34 pm

    civility is a quality sadly lacking

    Not my problem, dude. If you want love, get a dog and tie a porkchop around your neck.

    Unless you have something new, there’s nothing more to say about this at the moment. Your retorts now are just ridiculous. Your last post is basically “what should he apologize for?”

    Sorry, we’ve been over that ground twenty times. Read my previous posts and if you don’t get it, ask somebody else to explain it to you.

  118. 118.

    Andrei

    November 1, 2006 at 8:36 pm

    Idiot. Dems lose because a fucked up primary system gives us candidates like John Kerry, a guy with all the credentials who couldn’t beat the likes of George Bush.

    You need to pay attention more. The GOP wins by sticking together and towing a hardcore party line that is spoon fed ot them regardless of the barbs tossed back at them. That’s how George Bush, whose obviously one of the best sources of material on gaffes, mistatements and general fuckups since Dan Quayle, beats the Dems.

    In this light, had Bush made a similar gaffe at this point in time, the GOP would have had a party talking point that reversed the conversation and framed the debate to some issue that riles up the base they need to win by thin margins.

    Get a fucking clue.

    Coming from you right now and little you’ve been right about lately, that’s actually pretty funny.

  119. 119.

    Andrei

    November 1, 2006 at 8:41 pm

    ppGaz has officially become the leftist equivalent of Darrell, overtaking a thread and hijacking it as a troll of the highest order.

    Way to go ppGaz. I’m sure guys like Darrell are so proud of you! And please feel free to take the last word in repsonse to your dubious award, as it’s obvious you can barely contain yourself unless you do get your one last barb in to prove to everyone that reads that you’re always right no matter what. I’m done with the thread, so toodles.

  120. 120.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 8:43 pm

    overtaking a thread and hijacking it disagreeing with Andrei.

    The horror.

  121. 121.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 8:44 pm

    little you’ve been right about lately

    Really? Make me a list of what I haven’t been “right about lately,” okay big mouth?

  122. 122.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 8:45 pm

    There have been a series here of substantive points and well intended queries, designed to get at what you actually meant, which you did not answer. Your responses and nonresponse indicate that you are simply not interested in anything other than trumpeting your own pet theories, which are based, rather like the current president, on your gut.

    Indeed, you cannot understand even a simple word like civility, which refers not to “love” but to the common curtisies around which society is built. Not, for example, acting all tough when words, argument, and logic fail you. Not, for example, in inisting that others argue or exist in bad faith. Not, for example, flinging curses the way a chimp flings its shit on a bad day.

    And then you wonder, why no one thinks that your assertations about the political whatnots of the day and the tommorow yet to come are particularly compelling.

  123. 123.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 8:47 pm

    why no one thinks that your assertations about the political whatnots of the day and the tommorow yet to come are particularly compelling.

    Well, as I said, the political pros don’t agree with you.

    Why do you think Kerry apologized today? Because he suddenly had a change of heart?

    Kerry fucked up big time. The fact that a few lefties on this blog don’t get it doesn’t make me wrong, man.

    As for you unanswered “queries?” List them.

  124. 124.

    Baby Jane

    November 1, 2006 at 8:48 pm

    Boehner is a handsome fella, but certainly not what I had in mind when calling upon the service of sex kittens.

  125. 125.

    Baby Jane

    November 1, 2006 at 8:51 pm

    sundry

    A word best left to pretentious raisins.

  126. 126.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 8:52 pm

    A word best left to pretentious raisins.

    Very clever work, I must say, but wasted on this bunch.

  127. 127.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 8:54 pm

    Well, as I said, the political pros don’t agree with you.

    And as I said, this is a totally meaningless claim absent some evidence that the “political pros” are infalliable. Simple repeating what you have said in the face of an argument that questions its validity is not arguing it is, well, darreling.

    As for you unanswered “queries?” List them.

    Whatever and your argue like my wife are neither substantive nor serious responces to any query, unless it were something like “how would an undergraduate reply” or “whichh of your closest relative do I argue like?”

  128. 128.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 8:56 pm

    And as I said, this is a totally meaningless claim absent some evidence that the “political pros” are infalliable

    I didn’t say they were infallible. I said that they were right about this. Not even in the same ballpark.

    Whatever and your argue like my wife are neither substantive nor serious responces to any query

    In other words, you have no list of unanswered queries?

    I am limited in my responses to just satisfying your queries now? I didn’t get the memo.

  129. 129.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 8:56 pm

    Yes well or well meaning tomatoes

  130. 130.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 8:59 pm

    And I say they are wrong; consequently, this point, or alleged point, cuts not argumentative bread

    No there is no need to make me happy, unless of course we were engaged in a reasoned discussion.

  131. 131.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 9:00 pm

    Of course, from my perspective an answer ought to be substantive and serious, not dismissive. But then again, I am often wrong.

  132. 132.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 9:02 pm

    People must be shown to be “infallible” before they can be said to be right about something?

    I told you, if you would ever listen: It’s a gut thing, and instinct thing. You don’t get it.

    If you were right, and if the political world agreed with you, John Kerry would still be on tv telling the reporters that everyone who didn’t understand his “botched joke” is just crazy to ask for an apology.

    Instead, he had a miraculous change of heart an hour before the evening news. That’s right, the central figure in the top story in the last 24 hours’ news cycles in every outlet suddenly reversed his position.

    Tell you what: Call him and maybe he can explain it to you.


    Here’s how to reach him.

    304 Russell Bldg.
    Third Floor
    Washington D.C. 20510
    (202) 224-2742

    Boston
    One Bowdoin Square
    Tenth Floor
    Boston, MA 02114
    (617) 565-8519

    Springfield
    Springfield Federal Building
    1550 Main Street
    Suite 304
    Springfield, MA 01101
    (413) 785-4610

  133. 133.

    Baby Jane

    November 1, 2006 at 9:05 pm

    Yes well or well meaning tomatoes

    You, t. jasper, seem like thoughtful Beefsteak.

  134. 134.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 9:07 pm

    A gut thing an instinct thing isn’t an argument. And, had your read my comments with care, you would have seen that I dismiss your gut thing as less than helpful less than compelling and more than a little infused with the great vice of truthiness.

    Why are they right? Because your gut and their alledged actions coincide? Goodness me. If you are going to use someone to support a statement that rests on your gut, then yes they need to be either infaliable or at least competent and, for the reasons I outlined above, the Democratic Party’s professionals are neither.

  135. 135.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 9:08 pm

    Joan Walsh, Salon.com:

    “Any day that Democrats are talking about John Kerry and defending John Kerry is a bad day for Democrats.”

    No shit, Ms. Sherlock.

    Tony Snow suggested 16 times today that Kerry apologize.
    (Scarborough).

    Kerry apologized.

    Any questions?

  136. 136.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 9:10 pm

    Thanks.

  137. 137.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 9:11 pm

    How does Kerry doing what his opponents demand show, suggest, or yet prove that it was the right action?

  138. 138.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 9:13 pm

    Any day that the Democrats allow the Republicans and their noise machine to misrepresent their utterances is a bleak day for America: T. Jasper Parnell.
    Any Questions?

  139. 139.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 9:14 pm

    Why are they right?

    Call them and ask them. Maybe you will listen to them?

    Hey, anything is possible.

    Right after you post your proof that I am wrong, I’ll entertain your suggestion that I prove I’m right.

    Until then …. operators are standing by all over Washington DC to take your call.

    Michael Crowley: “It’s two days wasted that Dems could have used to better purpose. And (Kerry) has probably ended his chances of running again on the national level.”

  140. 140.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 9:16 pm

    prove that it was the right action

    You want proof? Then what are you doing at the home of Hot Air? Odd place to hang out looking for proof of anything.

  141. 141.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 9:21 pm

    Any Questions?

    Bush v Kerry?

    That contest was over two years ago, and the pompous ass from Mass is not going to reverse the outcome now, compadre.

    Kerry is such a rotten candidate, had the 2004 campaign gone on longer, I think he’d have lost by a larger margin.

    Such bad instincts. But hey, if he’s your guy, then he’s your guy. Back him to the hilt. Fealty is all, you know.

  142. 142.

    The Other Steve

    November 1, 2006 at 9:29 pm

    Which is not what it seems, since she generally wins. But not because she is right, but because I give up.

    Any woman who can argue with you until you finally give up should run marathons or something. That’s gotta take some serious stamina!

  143. 143.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 9:31 pm

    Do you spend your time trying to misunderstand others or does it come naturally? The truncated “prove” quote you deploy above asked how kerry’s reaction to the demands of his opponents prove it was the correct course. Tne any questions was designed to show that I too can make just as many authoritative claims as Joan Walsh and what does that prove? Nichts, nill, nothing.

    As to hot air, indeed, John Coles over the past few weeks have been clearer designed to show the lack of serousness with which he takes matters and the response show the equal distain that his commentariate, or mini-me Wormtongues, take the whole enterprise.

    Your astuteness astounds.

  144. 144.

    The Other Steve

    November 1, 2006 at 9:32 pm

    Well thank god John Kerry apologized about calling Bush stupid. I mean we wouldn’t want Republicans overplaying their hand and making themselves look even more stupid and ridiculous.

    I’m actually disappointed that John McCain went along with the bullshit, but then I guess people from Arizona are known for spending too much time out in the sun.

  145. 145.

    Steve

    November 1, 2006 at 9:37 pm

    Steve, the professional confuser, speaks.

    “Kerry 2008.” Google, 4,790,000 hits.

    Yeah, I’m fucking making it up, Steve.

    What a frigging idiot and waste of space you are here.

    This is hilarious. I make an obvious joke based on the fact that nobody with a brain takes Kerry seriously as a Presidential candidate for 2008, and TZ pretends I meant it literally and gets all huffy. George Bush, is that you?

  146. 146.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 9:38 pm

    Any day that the Democrats allow the Republicans and their noise machine to misrepresent their utterances

    “He was for the joke before he was against it.”
    –Dick Cheney

    Any day that you let Dick Cheney have the best line is a bad day for you side, Jasper.

  147. 147.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 9:40 pm

    TZ pretends I meant it literally

    One never knows what you mean and don’t mean. We mock you with the material we have, not with the material we wish we had.

    Personally, I don’t think you generally mean anything.

  148. 148.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 9:42 pm

    The truncated “prove” quote you deploy above asked how kerry’s reaction to the demands of his opponents prove it was the correct course

    Have you ever tried reading the crap you write? I got something wrong, my bad. Here, I’ll just be a minute while I swallow this cyanide pellet.

    Your astuteness astounds.

    I think you meant “astutiness.”

  149. 149.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 9:45 pm

    Any woman who can argue with you until you finally give up should run marathons or something. That’s gotta take some serious stamina!

    I give up quickly. But that’s in real life.

    In here, in this weird nether-world where reality has no particular relevance, different story.

    Anyway, any time you want to seek resolution or agreement with me, just let me know. See my post to your other brother Steve from last night. The crickets are still chirping, I think.

    { chirp }

    Yep. Still chirping.

    { faraway train whistle }

  150. 150.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 9:56 pm

    It is not a question if I read it, inasmuch as you insist that I am wrong and my writing crap, it would be helpful if you read. Particularly as this might be a chance to use not so much your gut but the other site and source of knowledge.

  151. 151.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 9:56 pm

    Any woman who can argue with you until you finally give up should

    Also, there is an unspoken agreement at work.

    She knows that I know that she is wrong on the facts, and I know that she knows that I can’t win despite that fact. Therefore we both know that resistance is futile.

    So the argument ends for the most rational of reasons, namely, There.Is.No.Point.To.Continuing.

    I concede defeat because I’m basically chivalrous, and she doesn’t rub it in because she knows that I know that she knows that I am supporting her damned kids.

    I hope that explains it.

  152. 152.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 9:57 pm

    inasmuch as you insist that I am wrong and my writing crap,

    It’s a rotten job, but …..

  153. 153.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 9:58 pm

    If by “best line” you mean reiteration of a series of misreprsentations, then okey.

  154. 154.

    t. jasper parnell

    November 1, 2006 at 10:02 pm

    It is a puzzle that you accuse others of not meaning anything when you insist that your own posts are hot air.

    given the total context of you statement about your wife and her damn kids, you might maybe need to look up chivalrous when researching civility.

  155. 155.

    tBone

    November 1, 2006 at 10:40 pm

    That balloon at the top of the page? It’s inflated, boys. Time to pack it in.

  156. 156.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 10:44 pm

    If by “best line” you mean

    Uh, I meant “best line.”

    Sorry, I know you hate it when things are just what they seem to be.

  157. 157.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 10:46 pm

    It is a puzzle that you accuse others of not meaning anything when you insist that your own posts are hot air

    You have a way of turning everything into a puzzle.

    One gets tired of correcting your self-serving grotesque twists of one’s words.

    I know what I said, I know what I meant, I said what I meant.

    Do the best you can, man.

  158. 158.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 10:47 pm

    maybe need to look up chivalrous

    Maybe. Whatever. Harangues like yours lose their luster after a while.

  159. 159.

    ThymeZone

    November 1, 2006 at 11:07 pm

    HILLIARD, Ohio –First lady Laura Bush cautioned Wednesday that Americans discussing the war in Iraq — especially politicians — should be careful what they say because other countries are paying attention….

    “Responsible candidates understand that the men and women of our military are risking their lives for us, and that we must conduct our debate here at home in a way that does not jeopardize our troops in harm’s way,” she said, calling for “conversations conducted with civility and respect.”

    Via DKos.

    See there, Jasper? There is somebody out there who has your high regard for civility. It’s Laura.

  160. 160.

    Steve

    November 1, 2006 at 11:18 pm

    It’s an impressive one-two punch. George says a vote for Democrats is a vote for the terrorists to win, Laura says the debate should be conducted with civility and respect. And nobody ever calls them on this stuff, ever. They ought to be a laughingstock.

  161. 161.

    ThymeZone

    November 2, 2006 at 12:10 am

    It’s an impressive one-two punch.

    Ka-pow!

  162. 162.

    Pb

    November 2, 2006 at 12:41 am

    Are we talking about the same Laura? Laura “It’s Always Easy To Manipulate People’s Feelings” Bush?

    You know, there’ s nothing I’d like more than to think there was a cure for Alzheimer’s. Especially before I get to be the age he is

    Screw Michael J. Fox, find a cure for Laura–she might get Alzheimer’s someday!

  163. 163.

    Ted

    November 2, 2006 at 2:42 am

    Screw Michael J. Fox, find a cure for Laura—she might get Alzheimer’s someday!

    Remember, it would be “unethical” to do any research with those 100 cell embryos before they’re thrown in the trash can.

  164. 164.

    Bombadil

    November 2, 2006 at 7:21 am

    Has anyone actually seen Darrell and ThymeZone in the same room?

    “Asshat of the Month” is going to be a real horse race this time.

  165. 165.

    Jeff

    November 2, 2006 at 7:41 am

    What John Kerry said was correct. If you have no option in life except to join the military, you will be stuck in Iraq or some similar war. The right wing nuts who started the war in Iraq certainly won’t sacrifice their children but they will sacrifice you!

  166. 166.

    Wilford Brimley

    November 2, 2006 at 8:00 am

    Oh, and ThymeZone? Go listen to Olbermann. He has a good idea of what is truly “stupid” here, and who owes who an apology. And if you think it was Kerry who needed to be making apologies, then you’re pretty stupid, too.

  167. 167.

    Jeff

    November 2, 2006 at 8:02 am

    I checked the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America site for the ratings on my Texas senators and found a D- for John Cornyn and a D+ for Kay Bailey Hutchison. I haven’t and would never vote for either. The fact that they have (R-TX) after their name is enough for me.

  168. 168.

    Bombadil

    November 2, 2006 at 8:25 am

    Oh, and ThymeZone? Go listen to Olbermann. He has a good idea of what is truly “stupid” here, and who owes who an apology. And if you think it was Kerry who needed to be making apologies, then you’re pretty stupid, too.

  169. 169.

    ThymeZone

    November 2, 2006 at 9:29 am

    Go listen to Olbermann. He has a good idea of what is truly “stupid” here, and who owes who an apology. And if you think it was Kerry who needed to be making apologies, then you’re pretty stupid, too.

    I did, and your comment is inapt. Olbermann is bashing Bush, which as we all know is a quite fun thing to do, and appropriate.

    However, the matter of Kerry and his stupid “joke” and his even stupider tantrum after called on the “joke,” doesn’t bear on the awfulness of Bush one way or the other.

    Kerry fucked up, got nailed, threw a tantrum, and got further nailed and threw in the towel at 4:30 ET yesterday. That’s what happened. He’s a fuckhead. I wouldn’t be surprised if he is still muttering about this under his breath. He probably still thinks that he is the one who was wronged here. He probably still doesn’t understand after thirty FUCKING YEARS why a huge number of people despise him for what he did thirty years ago. Which is why he got Swiftboated in the first place. Which is why he lost. Which is why he is still pissed over being swiftboated and losing and probably still miffed that the world didn’t rally to his side this week.

    I just hope that he coughed up his weak-ass apology in time to prevent the loss of one Dem vote or the gain of one GOP vote.

  170. 170.

    Bombadil

    November 2, 2006 at 9:45 am

    I did, and your comment is inapt.

    Kerry blew a joke. Read it in context, and you can understand what he meant, even if it came out wrong.

    And who jumps up and down like this is the worst thing evah? Every right-wing lunatic — and ThymeZone.

    I stand by my comment. If you think this is such a big deal and that Kerry’s apology or lack thereof has some Grand Meaning, you’re stupid.

    However, the matter of Kerry and his stupid “joke” and his even stupider tantrum after called on the “joke,” doesn’t bear on the awfulness of Bush one way or the other.

    But it’s Kerry’s “joke” that’s the Big Story? Stupid.

  171. 171.

    ThymeZone

    November 2, 2006 at 9:51 am

    And just so you get what is really going on here, Bombastadil, this is really the continuation of an old argument here.

    The argument revolves around a simple idea, which is that Democrats fully deserve their crummy reputation on national defense, and just don’t get it. And Kerry is the mascot for that.

    And to tie this fact in the real world to the reality of this blog, the lefty crowd here largely doesn’t get this and will argue and flame without restraint to prevent themselves from figuring it out.

    Whether you like it or not, John Kerry DID put a finger in the eye of his fellow servicement thirty years ago, and to this day doesn’t understand why so many of them still hate him for it. That’s why he was ripe for Switfboating. That’s why he foolishly set himself up for Swiftboating with his dumb “Reporting for duty” speech at the convention. That’s why he responded with mostly silence and a muddled message during the height of the attacks against him. That’s why he still doesn’t really understand why he lost that election. That’s why he botched the joke the other day … if he understood all this, he’d have not gone near the “joke” or at least would have taken great care with it so as to prevent any possible misunderstanding. That’s why he threw a tantrum afterward, instead of offering up the apology he owed the world immediately and saving his party two lost news cycles. The stupid fuck doesn’t even know how to manage a news cycle, which is about as basic an idea in American politics as you can get.

    Kerry is a goddamned disaster. He was a disaster for us in 2004, and he’s still a disaster today. I hold him personally responsible for losing an election we should have won. I hold him personally responsible for fucking up two critical news cycles this week, and sticking a finger in the eye of American troops yet again and another finger in the eye of his party, yet again, and making us relive the ignominy of 2004 yet again just to assuage his giant hurt feelings.

    I don’t think Kerry would have made a good president, and the fact that he is only marginally better in retrospect than the hideous George Bush just gives you an idea how bad he really can be.

    Go ahead and defend him, and maybe you can find a way to once again snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by hooking up with that guy.

    The righties are not always wrong, kids. About Dems and their legacy of making fools of themselves over certain things, they are exactly right, and John Kerry is the poster boy for it. Luckily for us, I think this mini-debacle will end once and for all any talk of the asshole running again for president in 2008. Anyone who doubted his unfitness for that purpose is surely now convinced.

  172. 172.

    ThymeZone

    November 2, 2006 at 9:53 am

    But it’s Kerry’s “joke” that’s the Big Story? Stupid.

    It was the top story on every outlet for two days in a row.

    It would be again today if the asshole hadn’t squeezed off his weak apology in time for the evening news yesterday.

  173. 173.

    Bombadil

    November 2, 2006 at 10:05 am

    And thanks to the right wing noise machine, and enablers like ThymeZone, this is the story. Everyone pay attention to John Kerry — nothing else matters. We’re all going to die, because of John Kerry. We’re never going to win another election, because of John Kerry. The War in Iraq goes on, because of John Kerry. Global warming persists, because of John Kerry. Habeus corpus has been suspended because of John Kerry. Osama bin Laden is still on the loose because of John Kerry. He’s obviouslu the worst thing ever to happen to this country, and it’s all his fault.

    My vote for “Asshat of the Month” goes to ThymeZone. Darrell will have to wait until next time.

  174. 174.

    Marie

    November 2, 2006 at 10:21 am

    Maybe Kerry should have just apologized for being a dumbass in general. Even Imus told him to shut his mouth.

  175. 175.

    ThymeZone

    November 2, 2006 at 10:22 am

    And thanks to the right wing noise machine, and enablers like ThymeZone, this is the story.

    Oh, that’s brilliant, dude. Thirty years of this issue plaguing the Democratic party … to this day, a hot button the Repubs can push at will because they know it still resonats out there …

    AND I’M TO BLAME FOR IT?

    Jesus. Talk about asshats.

    Politicians are to politics as dogs are to scent. They can smell an issue and a hot button from a thousand yards away.

    Why do you think the GOP keeps pushing that DEM-WEAK button over and over again? Because I don’t agree with the myopic lefty posters here? Or because they with WITH CERTAINTY that Dems are vulnerable on this issue and That.It.Works.

    It works. It works precisely because Dems don’t get it, and especially because people like John Kerry don’t get it.

    Kerry the Fool actually thought, in 2004, that his Reporting for Duty stunt would innculate him against this thing, and even score a point against the weak service record of Bush.

    Guess what? Within a month, that strategy was in ruins and Kerry was fucked. The Swifties had baited him, he took the bait, and they went for him. Their material was based on lies, but a lie only works when it meshes with some truth.

    The truth here is that Kerry pissed off the majority of American servicemen and women with his arrogant and tone deaf war protests in the 1970’s … and worse, never took the time to really understand the pain he caused them, because his giant ego then … and now … prevented him from getting what was really going on.

    The Swifties impaled him because they hated him, not because the loved Bush. And why did they hate him? Because he is an arrogant prick who put himself and his lofty protests above their honor and their service and their pride.

    They went after him, and the GOP put them up to it, because they knew how vulnerable he was and that he’d fall right into their trap. They had him pegged, and still do … did you see them jumping out of their skins the other day? They still can’t believe the idiot handed them this gift this week.

    Whenever you see politicians pushing a button over and over, whether it’s Dems Weak on Defense, or Gay Agenda, or Socialized Medicine, or whatever it is … it’s because the button works. The buttons that get pushed are the ones that work. And they don’t work because people are stupid. The idea that the American people are too stupid to get things is wrong. Americans do get things, on a visceral level, and they GET this thing about Dems being weak.

    Your top Dem politician today is HRC, a person I don’t care for much but a razor-sharp politician who gets these things. Listen to her message about John Kerry this week. “His remarks were inappropriate” she said … three times in two minutes she said it. Why? Because she’s “stupid”, like me?

  176. 176.

    Bombadil

    November 2, 2006 at 10:22 am

    Maybe Kerry should have just apologized for being a dumbass in general. Even Imus told him to shut his mouth.

    If anyone knows about being a dumbass in general, it’s Imus.

  177. 177.

    Bombadil

    November 2, 2006 at 10:47 am

    Why do you think the GOP keeps pushing that DEM-WEAK button over and over again? Because I don’t agree with the myopic lefty posters here? Or because they with WITH CERTAINTY that Dems are vulnerable on this issue and That.It.Works.

    Yeah it works. Certainly worked on you, didn’t it?

    The Swifties impaled him because they hated him, not because the loved Bush. And why did they hate him? Because he is an arrogant prick who put himself and his lofty protests above their honor and their service and their pride.

    Bullshit. The Swifties impaled him because they were Bush — they were an invention of Rove. If they’d hated him so much, they had more than enough opportunities to come out against him, in any of Kerry’s runs for the Senate or for state office in Massachusetts. They were invented and financed for one reason only — to deflect attention away from Bush’s military record.

    Whenever you see politicians pushing a button over and over, whether it’s Dems Weak on Defense, or Gay Agenda, or Socialized Medicine, or whatever it is … it’s because the button works. The buttons that get pushed are the ones that work. And they don’t work because people are stupid. The idea that the American people are too stupid to get things is wrong. Americans do get things, on a visceral level, and they GET this thing about Dems being weak.

    And you’ve bought into it. The Republicans push the button and rather than shout about why they’re wrong, to expose their lies, you say we’re fucked because of Kerry. Not because of Rove. Not because of Cheney. Not because of Bush. Because of Kerry. They pushed the button all right — your button.

  178. 178.

    Bombadil

    November 2, 2006 at 10:50 am

    Your top Dem politician today is HRC, a person I don’t care for much but a razor-sharp politician who gets these things. Listen to her message about John Kerry this week. “His remarks were inappropriate” she said … three times in two minutes she said it. Why? Because she’s “stupid”, like me?

    Great. HRC rolls over on the Republicans, and says, yeah, Kerry was wrong. You republicans are right, nothing else matters but that Kerry made a mistake. He should apologize. Stupid Democrats.

    HRC chases the jackalope. Film at eleven.

    Stupid.

  179. 179.

    Sojourner

    November 2, 2006 at 11:49 am

    Kerry said basically “get yourself smart and educated or end up stuck in Iraq like the other uneducated dolts”.

    No, Kerry said if you don’t get smart and educated, you misunderstand what everyone else understands and you end up like Darrell.

  180. 180.

    Sojourner

    November 2, 2006 at 11:55 am

    Sorry, I do not give Kerry the benefit of a doubt about attacking our troops unfairly.

    It would have been so much better to let the troops continue to die in Viet Nam.

  181. 181.

    Sojourner

    November 2, 2006 at 11:56 am

    HRC, on CNN less than an hour ago: “What Senator Kerry said was inappropriate …” Three times she said it.

    Which is why she will never get my vote.

  182. 182.

    Sojourner

    November 2, 2006 at 12:14 pm

    So, it’s almost 5:00 pm Washington time, Kerry has finally realized that no Dems are really coming to his rescue on this, and that most of them are running away from so fast they have created a vacuum that might start another hurricane season

    Another example of the idiocy of the Democratic party. Why the f didn’t they rally behind Kerry and insist that Bush apologize to the soldiers for getting them killed?

    Idiots.

  183. 183.

    Sojourner

    November 2, 2006 at 12:17 pm

    Top story, CNN: Kerry apologizes.

    Top story: Democrats insist that Bush apologize to the soldiers for getting them killed.

    If the Dems had a bit of sense, they not only could have handled this but used it to their advantage.

    Christ, it’s hard to vote for Dems these days. They’re such idiots.

  184. 184.

    Sojourner

    November 2, 2006 at 12:28 pm

    He probably still doesn’t understand after thirty FUCKING YEARS why a huge number of people despise him for what he did thirty years ago. Which is why he got Swiftboated in the first place. Which is why he lost. Which is why he is still pissed over being swiftboated and losing and probably still miffed that the world didn’t rally to his side this week.

    Jesus Christ, pgaz. The guy does something incredibly ethical, that took a tremendous amount of guts, to save the lives of a lot of soldiers. And you want to slam him for that?

    What in the hell is the matter with you?

  185. 185.

    Redleg

    November 2, 2006 at 2:32 pm

    ThymeZone,
    Why don’t you explain to us ignorant liberals just what the Republicans have done to merit their (false) reputation as good for defense? The Army is now stretched to a breaking point because of our involvement in Iraq. The Iraq situation is getting worse with no end in sight. We are less able to defend ourselves and meanwhile, the Taliban grows in strength in Afghanistan and Al Quaeda recruits more dissaffected men around the world.

    Rummy the dummy, prior to 9-11, advocated further reductions in the Army by two combat divisions- and hasn’t yet changed his mind about that (although he has postponed it indefinately). Rummy the dummy thought that missile defense would reduce our need for combat soldiers.

    What did the great conservative hero Ronnie Raygun ever do for the military? He bought a lot of high tech wonder bullshit and ignored the needs of the combat soldiers.

    Jeebus, what have the Rethuglicans actually done for the military other than throw money at them for the next super-duper fighter aircraft? As a former combat arms officer, I saw the budget cutting that took place for the regular ground troops. Meanwhile, the big defense contractors got rich making the next fighter aircraft. Meanwhile, the ground troops are still using a weapon that is based on the flawed M-16 design.

    Yes, the Rethuglicans are good cheerleaders for the troops but when it comes to providing VA benefits and medical attention, the Rethugs are less generous. Not to mention the many conservative swine who have belittled the number of military folks killed in Iraq. How often do we have to hear that the number of U.S. troops killed in Iraq is fewer than the number of people who die on California highways in one year?

    Eat it, fool.

  186. 186.

    Carolyn Dorroh

    November 3, 2006 at 6:05 pm

    RE: “botched joke”

    The U. S. Senator speaking to our California students was gracious enough to provide an example simplifying “The Commandments of John Kerry” enabling conservative Christians too understand him better. Can we have him speak more often?

    The Commandments of John Kerry

    1. Thou shall substitute stereotyping, of a distinguished select group of people, to fill the void caused by a lack of substance in your argument.

    2. Thou shall profile, every person making up the complete entity, with denigrating remarks to project superiority on your part.

    3. Thou shall insult the intelligence of others to show those before you, who are faced with a decision, what could happen to them on this world stage if they chose to disagree with you.

    4. Thou shall insinuate that the choice of an individual was not a choice at all; planting the idea that you will also be viewed as an ignorant person if you don’t think like I do.

    5. Thou shall instill self consciousness in young naive listeners, who are awestruck by a real life U. S. Senator, implying that you will also be viewed as stuck in one of life’s flee infested arm pits of the world, completely helpless and not in control of the situation if you don’t think like I want you to.

    6. Thou shall increase the use of rhetoric concealing insufficient power to handle the circumstances.

    7. Thou shall intentionally belittle and terrorize innocent minds to subsidize your obsession for power, glory and fame.

Comments are closed.

Trackbacks

  1. In Search Of Utopia says:
    November 1, 2006 at 11:01 pm

    Two guys I respect… Hell I even admire them…

    First John Cole, who has always had my respect, and always called bullshit when he saw it. Last word on Kerry…Goes to John Derbyshire (who must have a book to sell!): John Kerry is awful, and anything we can do…

  2. Staunton News says:
    November 10, 2006 at 10:59 am

    Last Word on Kerry

    Buahahaha.

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