Lately it seems like each leg propping up Republican power keep getting kicked out from under them one after the other after the other. First you had the money (Abramoff and the train of officials that he continues to bring down). Then they lost the ideological enforcers who kept the party rigidly in lockstep (DeLay). After that we had a period where scandals amounted to individual embarrassments which never quite broke into the big time (Cunningham, Hastert’s land deal, Curt Weldon’s Godfather-like sense of family business, etc.).
As recently as this summer the GOP thought they still had national defense, that is to say Iraq, in the bag. So much for that. Republicans had “moral values” going for them as long as by “values” you mean keeping down teh ghey and prudishly denying the existence of sex. Then (Foley, Reynolds, Hastert again) that went up in a foul cloud. Maybe somebody out there can hear a Republican talk about “fiscal sanity” without tossing their cookies, I can’t. Most of us realize that if Dems re-taxed the GOP’s precious Paris Hiltons then maybe we can start paying off the national credit card bill.
Counting off the money mill, the K street project, national security, ideological enforcers, fiscal sanity and moral values, that leaves…the army of religious voters. I don’t know to what degree the charismatic evangelicals, fundamentalists and Scalia-brand conservative Catholics sway the national numbers but in specific districts across the south, midwest and west a Republican can no longer get elected without their say-so. Much more than their numbers the hardcore religious right beats the pants off the rest of us voting blocs in terms of discipline and coordination. I get the sense that three quarters of Karl Rove’s smirk comes from knowing that 1) no way in hell will these guys vote Democrat, and 2) it isn’t that hard to keep them voting Republican.
You know what comes next because we might be the last blog on Earth to comment on this story. If I tried to imagine the most disheartening possible news for the hard-right religious voters I might come up with the outlines of the story. Start with Ted Haggard, possibly the single most influential man in evangelism, founder of the most important charismatic church in Colorado Springs, AKA Fundie Central (I lived for several years in Colorado Springs and the stories have it right – New Life Church was practically everywhere. Their campus outreach was phenomenal). Add clandestine gay sex, which is fine with me but probably not with his flock. Throw in – why not? – methamphetamines and break it five days before a crucial election.
Now, I have no idea whether the story is remotely true. For all I know the accuser could have made up his story last week. But if I I was Ted Haggard and some guy came out of the blue with this then I would probably hit him with a libel suit an move on. Prominent folks get harrassed by idiots all the time. Stepping down, which Haggard just did, seems like it unnecessarily legitimizes the charges. As I understand it, not a great move unless you know in advance that the story isn’t going away.
Again, I could care less if an evangelical preacher had gay sex. The story here is not whether I care but the sudden decapitation of the most powerful remaining force behind Karl Rove’s smirk. Right now all of those emailers and voting guides stamped with Ted Haggard’s personal imprimatur must look a lot less compelling. Given the level of his anti-gay virulence, the centrality of gay fear to the religious right’s messaging, I doubt that Haggard would have done more damage if he shot a guy in the face.
Jon H
“For all I know the accuser could have made up his story last week. ”
Apparently the accuser has voicemail tapes of Haggard, and an envelope which Haggard used to send him two hundred dollar bills. The envelope I think was signed with Haggard’s alias, “Art”, but might provide DNA if necessary.
Steve
You say this as if he hasn’t.
/rimshot
tBone
It was just a peppering, moonbat.
Steve
That pepper sure tastes salty.
Jon H
“It was just a peppering, moonbat.”
More of a spatter, I think.
srv
Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.
Daniel DiRito
While one cannot conclude that this accusation will prove to be true, the man bringing the allegation has been in the Denver and Colorado Springs area for some time. His advertisements for services have appeared in local gay publications for a number of years and it wouldn’t make a lot of sense for him to come forward without sufficient and accurate information to prove his claims. That is simply speculation on my part but it would seem like a huge mistake if his story is a fabrication. My hunch is that the information will bear the coming scrutiny and that the pastor’s secrets are about to be exposed.
If Jesus was to be our example, then I don’t understand this thing we now call Christian values. Pastor Haggard may believe that he speaks for God but his actions suggest that he merely fears his own humanity. Further, if the values he espouses exist to demonstrate his faith in the God he knows, then the God he knows must have already seen this element of his humanity that he cannot personally accept…which would mean that any true God has already accepted that which we humans won’t and would also prove that the God Haggard purports to represent is not a real God but a God of his own creation designed to serve his flawed view of the human condition.
Read more here:
http://www.thoughttheater.com
CaseyL
Oh, I’m still wondering who Gannon/Guckert was Xtra Special Bestest Friends With at the White House.
SeesThroughIt
Ah-ha! There’s no such thing as a $200 bill! This is just a conspiracy by lying leftist liberal liars who hate religion and want to destroy an honorable man with their America-hating lies like the lying leftist liberal liars they are.
Daniel DiRito
While one cannot conclude that this accusation will prove to be true, the man bringing the allegation has been in the Denver and Colorado Springs area for some time. His advertisements for services have appeared in local gay publications for a number of years and it wouldn’t make a lot of sense for him to come forward without sufficient and accurate information to prove his claims. That is simply speculation on my part but it would seem like a huge mistake if his story is a fabrication. My hunch is that the information will bear the coming scrutiny and that the pastor’s secrets are about to be exposed.
If Jesus was to be our example, then I don’t understand this thing we now call Christian values. Pastor Haggard may believe that he speaks for God but his actions suggest that he merely fears his own humanity. Further, if the values he espouses exist to demonstrate his faith in the God he knows, then the God he knows must have already seen this element of his humanity that he cannot personally accept…which would mean that any true God has already accepted that which we humans won’t and would also prove that the God Haggard purports to represent is not a real God but a God of his own creation designed to serve his flawed view of the human condition.
Read more here:
http://www.thoughttheater.com
Daniel DiRito
While one cannot conclude that this accusation will prove to be true, the man bringing the allegation has been in the Denver and Colorado Springs area for some time. His advertisements for services have appeared in local gay publications for a number of years and it wouldn’t make a lot of sense for him to come forward without sufficient and accurate information to prove his claims. That is simply speculation on my part but it would seem like a huge mistake if his story is a fabrication. My hunch is that the information will bear the coming scrutiny and that the pastor’s secrets are about to be exposed.
If Jesus was to be our example, then I don’t understand this thing we now call Christian values. Pastor Haggard may believe that he speaks for God but his actions suggest that he merely fears his own humanity. Further, if the values he espouses exist to demonstrate his faith in the God he knows, then the God he knows must have already seen this element of his humanity that he cannot personally accept…which would mean that any true God has already accepted that which we humans won’t and would also prove that the God Haggard purports to represent is not a real God but a God of his own creation designed to serve his flawed view of the human condition.
Read more here:
http://www.thoughttheater.com
SeesThroughIt
Ah-ha! There’s no such thing as a $200 bill! This is just a conspiracy by lying leftist liberal liars who hate religion and want to destroy an honorable man with their America-hating lies like the lying leftist liberal liars they are.
Ned R.
Did I accidentally install a Daniel script too?
craigie
You might almost call it the “money shot.”
fwiffo
Shadenfreude aside, I’m opposed to outing. It’s none of my business who this guy has sex with, or what sort of sex he’s having. On the other hand, it IS certainly his wife’s business. It is adultery after all (if it’s true). I doubt the Haggards are open-marriage sorts.
Brian
They’s so many of these right wing guys in the closet they can’t all fit and are popping out in Narnia.
jaime
This is a liberal trick. Haggard timed his trysts with male prostitutes to coincide with election season.
Matt
Hmm.
Visions of Santorum-on-Tumnus here.
EL
9news just put up another story saying that a voice expert listened to the messages and concluded “it certainly sounds like the same person.” I hate that sort of hypocrisy, and just love when those Elmer Gantry types get revealed!
EL
Arrgh! You are seriously ill, and also contagious. Excuse me, I need to go scrub that image out of my poor brain.
Perry Como
This is just more sexual McCarthyism from, umm, male prostitutes! I bet the male prostitute has a book to sell.
srv
Pop Christianity is to Christ like modern Republicans are to Conservatism. The definition of oxymoron.
Imagine the mind of the modern Darrell – people with no values (Dems) are worse than people who espouse faithfullness to doctrine (Reps) but then aren’t really true to them.
srv
Pop Christianity is to Christ like modern Republicans are to Conservatism. The definition of oxymoron.
Imagine the mind of the modern Darrell – people with no values (Dems) are worse than people who espouse faithfullness to doctrine (Reps) but then aren’t really true to them.
craigie
Isn’t there a Twilight Zone episode that starts with that line?
rachel
Why? Why do Christians keep forgetting Jesus’s own warnings about being wary of false shepherds, and taking out the speck of sawdust from your own eye before you start in on the plank your neighbor has in his? They all have Bibles; can’t they freaking *read* them?
And why does crap like this come out while I’m tucked away in bed for the night? OK, living in Korea has a lot to do with that, but damn!
johnzo
Some interesting stuff about Hellard here at the
Colorado Springs Independent. Seems he’s not as evil as, say, a Dobson:
Money quote:
Darrell
It’s dishonest to characterize me as supporting phonies of any stripe.. Unlike leftists on this forum defending and minimizing jaime’s comments earlier about cutting the legs off Terri Schiavo to make her the “Schindler’s little meat doll they call George”. Nothing tops that..Nothing… or the leftist defense and minimization of such depraved comments, because jaime “offers other things”. Unbelievable really, what the left will stoop to
rachel
Darrell? Go read your Bible–and pay attention this time.
Sirkowski
30% of Americans can’t read.
30% of Americans support Bush.
Darrell
This comment made by a leftist was defended and minimized on an earlier thread by other leftists because, according to one explantion, the commenter “had something to offer”. He started with a comment regaring cutting off Terri Schiavo’s limbs, followed with
Rachel, are you honest enough, with at least a minimal amount of integrity, to admit that such comments are depraved and freakish as hell? Just curious as to how “principled” you are.
Darrell
Rachel, specifically what are you alleging that I am not “paying attention” to? Please elaborate.. otherwise, it’s fair to assume you were taking a dishonest, unprincipled shot at me without basis. Let us know…
Sirkowski
Hey, Darrell, speaking of Schiavo, check this out.
Darrell
Also Rachel, perhaps you will find it in your ‘christian’ heart to comment on posts like these from your fellow lefties. Because you seem so sincere and honorable.. I’m sure you will speak up on what’s right.
Darrell
exactly what I expected. Cheap shots, which when responded to, send the cockroaches scattering.
Ted
Darrell, we really don’t need to be told 6 times that you like pie. Once is enough. We get it.
SeesThroughIt
The Bible’s for thumpin’, not readin’.
mycfile
Church Leader Says Haggard Admits To Some Indiscretions
http://www.kktv.com/news/headlines/4557411.html
rachel
Darrell,
Why should I argue with you? Why should *anybody* argue with you? Thread after thread, comment after comment you have shown yourself to be the worst kind of shill there is: willfully, hatefully ignorant. A pygmy’s fart in a wind-tunnel has as much value as anything I’ve read by you. You are a surd, a pimple on democracy’s ass, a dupe. Whatever side you take, I will disbelieve because you are that credulous and deluded. But argue with you? The Book of Proverbs said it well: “Do you see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.”
None of us are as wise as we should be, Darrell, but some of us know it.
TenguPhule
It’s November. Surprise, Republicans. ^_^
Almost enough to make me believe there is a God. Almost.
Tim in SF
Haggard expressed an interest in having an orgy with half a dozen 18 year old guys.
Screenshot, Voicemail recording.
Haggard was chasing a stupid fantasy. The last time I had a bunch of 18 year olds over for an orgy, by the end of the night they had turned the water in my hot tub into egg drop soup. I never want to go through cleaning up a mess like that again.
Tim in SF
It may not be my business who he’s having sex with, but any public figure who throws stones at the gay community while living in that particular glass house deserves to have that house brought down around his ears.
Mike S
There, fixed it.
Mike S
Fixed
Mike S
What happened to Sherard? Did he have to go back to reading comp 101?
Cassidy
Darrell likes a lot of pie and gay monkey sex. Now is that at the same time or is it more like a tag team kinda thing.
Sherard
You mean moral authority like shreiking “BUSH LIED!!!” ?
As in, lied about WMD ? You know, like, I don’t know, perhaps NUKES that Saddam was a year from developing ?
This, according to none other than the New.York.Times. Well known for shilling for the Bush administration.
VERY interested to see how the Balloon Juice, recently converted Moonbat and Moonbat from birth crew spin this one.
Proud Liberal
a visual I could have done without this morning but good one rachel.
Proud Liberal
huh? lol.. thats what you got from the Times article? that Iraq was a year from having nukes? lol… better stick to My Pet Goat like your fearless leader.
Proud Liberal
some moron on the right apparently said this:
NY Times:
No one denies that Saddam had a nuke program 15 years ago.
Rusty Shackleford
Darrell is a pie eating necrophiliac. Terri Schiavo is his corpse bride.
Bombadil
Jeebus. If I have to get distasteful images this early in the morning, I think I’m going to go with wind-tunnel pygmy farts.
Ed
Maybe some of the coverage has to do with this, since the President wants to ‘dance with the one that brung ya”.
According to the Wall Street Journal on 6/21/2005:
Ted Haggard, the head of the 30-million strong National Association of Evangelicals, jokes that the only disagreement between himself and the leader of the Western world is automotive: Mr. Bush drives a Ford pickup, whereas he prefers a Chevy.
Lee
Darrell want to know which parts of the Bible you need to pay attention to?
Try The Beatitudes
You know, Christ’s own words.
Zifnab
I think the word we’re all looking for here is “Comeupence”. As in, “If they GOP didn’t realize this was going all come up and bite them in the ass, they wouldn’t be the GOP.”
grumpy realist
“There are so many closeted guys in the Republican party that their emblem should be a moth.”
yertle
So very sad, the reading skills of today’s youth.
Proud Liberal
I can’t help but believe that this latest scandal will further depress and already depressed evangelical vote. They can’t be happy campers these days. To hear that the Bush administration ridiculed and insulted them behind their back at the same time asking for their vote and now we have Haggard. How much hypocrisy can these bible thumpers take? This has more political implications than is realized at the moment. I will guarantee you that the evangelical turnout will be much much lower than it has in the past and a greater amount of them will vote for the Democratic candidate than usual.
What we are witnessing ladies and gentlemen is the destruction of the Republican coalition. Fiscal conservatives have deserted them. Evangelical “values voters” are dispirited. War hawks disgusted by the incompetence. Small government types outraged. Who is left? Oh, Darrell. Forgot.
Walker
You mean like Instapundit? That’s where they are getting this crap from. I swear, first his posts about the economy (nominal/real, what’s the difference?) and now this. It is getting to the point that your average Slashdot posting is more insightful than Glenn is these days.
snorkel
Does anyone here know how this is playing politically in Colorado, especially the CD in which Colorado Springs lies? Is this district one of the potential Democratic pickups?
Bombadil
“By the power of Grey Skull…..”
jcricket
I’m not outraged, in any way, about the “outing” of people like this. Not a bit. Not a peep. I don’t feel bad for the weeping supporters of Haggard either. Perhaps the massive hypocrisy of their own “moral leader” might cause them to re-think their hatred of gays.
The only people I feel bad for is Haggard’s family. But not because Haggard was outed, because Haggard, a married father of 5, carried on a secret 3-year affair and drug-buying relationship with a hooker. His behavior is what caused this problem for his family, not the outing.
Haggard wasn’t your average Joe. He’s the president of the National Association of Evangelicals and a pastor of a mega-church (15,000 members). He spent lots of time railing against adultery, homosexuality + gay marriage, among other “sins of liberalism”. He was perfectly happy to use his bully pulpit and the media to disseminate negative stereotypes against gays, to support anti-gay-marriage amendments and I’m sure support tougher divorce laws, penalties for adultery and on drug use too. The fact that the person he paid for sex and drugs, and had an ongoing 3-year affair with is now going public, while certainly a tragedy for Haggard’s family, is completely ethical and fine by me. There is no “hooker-john” confidentiality clause, although IANAL.
I view this as different than a PI or activist group collecting evidence on the sly and releasing it to the public without the consent of either party involved. While I can understand the reasoning behind that type of outing, not as OK with it. Although when Gary Hart got caught on his boat, I didn’t feel bad for him. When the televangelists got caught with their pants down or hands in the till, I didn’t feel sorry for them. So I suppose I shouldn’t feel bad for Charlie Crist or Larry Craig either.
I view it as pretty different than an outing of a private citizen (no matter how homophobic) that isn’t out there railing against gays, day in and day out. Even if someone is, say, the very religious CEO of Dominoes, I don’t think one needs to go outing him unless one is part of the relationship and the CEO speaks out publicly.
Political candidates/officials and religious spokespeople who legitimize homophobia for millions of people, and cause untold hurt to the gay community by supporting total bans on marriage or other gay civil rights, who are simultaneously committing “immoral” (by their own standards) behavior are just getting what’s coming to them.
The phrases I would use are indeed “Schadenfreude” and “hoist by his own petard”.
Tim F.
I haven’t lived in the Springs for some years but then as now the religious right rules the town. The Lamborn ( R)-Fawcett (D) race already looked like a nailbiter; if this demoralizes the fundies like I expect it will Lamborn could be in for a very, very bad Tuesday.
The Other Steve
An interesting observation:
Is it possible that Haggard is the false prophet? The anti-Christ?
Are Evangelicals actually those who have been marked by the beast?
jcricket
Darrell’s employing the same circular logic the far-right evangelicals will employ when the GOP sustains losses this elections (a loss means they weren’t evangelical enough, a win means they were on the right track, so let’s be more evangelical).
If we respond to Darrell, he must be on the right track, so he’ll stick with the same line of reasoning. If we don’t, he’s obviously right, because we have nothing to say, and he should stick with the same type of reasoning.
If this were USENET I’d say put him in your “kill” file (similar to the grease monkey script). He’s no different than the trolls who’ve been trying to disrupt every forum basically forever.
Steve
What’s ironic is that, of course, the NYT was well known for shilling for the Bush administration on the topic of Saddam’s weapons programs, back before the war. But yeah, 1991 was a long time ago, you have to be a moron if you think this vindicates anything other than the stupidity of the right-wing blogosphere, etc, etc.
The Other Steve
That would be sweet. I contributed to the Fawcett campaign, via the dKos Actblue funding campaign.
I’ve got to put together my list of seats I’m particularly looking forward to the results on tuesday.
Teak111
Disagree, John. I think this event reinforces the spirit in these people. To outsiders, the hypocracy of the Fundy world could not be more evident. But inside, the Fundies will rush to forgive him while pretending to be Jesus. The New Life Church and all other Fundies will forgive Haggart for his sins (while ignoring completely his hateful hypocrasy) as he seeks counseling to have his gay impulses burned from his soul. Haggart will be back preaching and hating gays in a year. Can you say Swaggart, Baker, Limbough, Foley? His wife will soon appear surrounded by his five kids and profess forgiveness. Everyone will feel uplifted and joyful.
Fundies love when thier leaders/heros fall, they rush to them, help them up and forgive (even such a sin as drug-tainted gay sex, which clearly is the devil’s work. Its part of the whole true-believer experience and quite touching actually.
But he should get an AIDs test first. Sounds like pretty risky sex to me; drugs, prositutes, 200 dollar bills. No matter, even with AIDS and dying, the fundies would consider him a martre, a beautiful symbol of man’s imperfection and of the devil’s work vanquished.
After all, Rush had a bad back. Do you know how painful a bad back can be?
Bombadil
I typically ignore him, unless the post is short. If he has anything to say, you can glean it from the first post or two; after that it’s MOTS and not worth reading. I think the best way to deal with him, if at all, is to point and laugh. One is not supposed to take the clowns seriously, and Darrell’s postings are the equivalent of badly-made balloon animals.
Andrew
John 4:19:
It’s not gay if you do it on crystal meth, so sayeth the Lord.
Focus On Your Own Damn Family!
Greetings from Colorado Springs!
Smoke is rising from Six Flags Over Jesus and Focus On The Family is battening down the hatches. As so many of us do locally, I work for the military. While in uniform our people are not really allowed to discuss political news (and anyone who doesn’t believe this is political news is pure-D blind), but the Haggard news is such a bombshell that people are breaking radio silence.
Turns out that most of us are mote/beam Christians, after all and disgust for Haggard’s duplicity, hypocracy, and betrayal of his family appears to be the norm.
As for the fundies, I am proudly praying they stay home on Tuesday.
TenguPhule
It’s November. Surprise, Republicans. ^_^
Punchy
Fuckin’ Christ, Steve, it’s LUNCHTIME. Goddamn you…
Lee
Did Darrell leave? He certainly seems to give up quicker lately.
Bombadil
It’s all that pie. He has to drink a lot of milk to wash it down, and that means more frequent trips to the little boys’ room.
Bombadil
I just noticed that my last post was stamped “November 4th, 2006 at 3:02 AM”. If I’m truly 12 hours in the future, can someone tell me what the MegaMillions numbers were?
just sayin'
Bombadil – That’s not how it works. YOU tell US. I’ll cut you in for 40%.
Bombadil
Let’s see what the score is so far:
Drugs:
Clinton: Marijuana; but did not inhale
Haggard: Crystal meth; threw it away
Sex:
Clinton: Blow job from an intern
Haggard: “Massage” from a gay male prostitute
Say what you want about those righties — they’ve certainly raised the bar.
skip
“Given the level of his anti-gay virulence, the centrality of gay fear to the us right’s messaging, I doubt that Haggard would have done more damage if he shot a guy in the face.”
The 29% crowd, the one that still like the way GWB is managing the war, is not going to be budged an inch by Haggard’s piccadillo or anything like it. For it is written: there are those who see, those who see when they are shown, and those who will NOT see.
Bush could gang-rape a busload of Sacred Heart nuns in the Rose Garden and the 29% would call it a distortion by the elite liberal media. There is no ratiocination going on here; this is the Massada of the evangelical right.
rachel
By himself?