Saw this on the evening news:
Drivers swerved to avoid a 3-year-old boy, wearing only a diaper and a T-shirt, who was playing along a busy highway after wandering away from home while his mother slept, police said.
Some motorists stopped along Interstate 465 on the city’s west side Saturday to take care of the boy until officers arrived, state police said.
“I looked up and I seen this little . . . boy running down the middle of the slow lane in the interstate. I just could not believe what I was seeing,” said Troy Crady, who stopped to help.
The boy, Damon Dyer, was unscathed as at least a half-dozen cars and a tractor-trailer swerved into other lanes to avoid him. Police said they traced the toddler to a nearby apartment complex, where they found his mother, Nancy Dyer, asleep in a filthy apartment and his 2-year-old sister eating spaghetti off the floor.
Dyer, 33, was arrested on two counts of child neglect.
Now I don’t want to go to bat for bad parents anywhere, but unless there is more to this story, I do not see how this is neglect. According to m ynightly news, the mother was asleep and the kid got out a second story window. If a parent taking a nap and a kid breaking out of the house is neglect, there is a whole lotta neglect going on in this country. From all that I have seen on the news, this sounds like a tragedy averted, not neglect.
*** Update ***
Apparently there is more to the story, and we seem to have come to a consensus. This act alone does not constitute neglect, but the totality of the situation, as well as the individual history with similar incidents, would lead to a pattern that suggests neglect. That seems reasonable, and looks as if the system is working. Whether or not arresting this woman helps the matter is the subject for another debate.
Keith
The article I read said it wasn’t the first time the kid got out, and authorities also found a 2 year old eating spaghetti off the floor (I woulda figured the lady to be a Tribbiani).
ThymeZone
Yes, it’s neglect. You cannot leave a child at that age unsupervised under any circumstances.
That’s my opinion as both a parent and grandparent.
If Maci’s mom fell asleep and the child were out in the street, I’d contact a lawyer and try to get custody away from her mother. I’d consider it my duty as her grandparent. If the child were in my care and I fell asleep while she got out of the house, I’d expect a visit from Child Protective Services and possible criminal charges.
I’m basing my opinion entirely on your presentation of the facts. Also, I have no idea what the law says, but AFAIC if the law doesn’t call this neglect, then the law is wrong.
Sam Wilkinson
It’s neglect. It’s absolutely neglect. These sorts of things don’t just happen. If Mom was taking a nap, why wasn’t her child, and her home, secured? If there was a threat of her child getting out, why wasn’t she more concerned about it. Any parent whose infant child ends up wandering around a highway ought to be investigated for acting in a neglectful manner.
Or perhaps, we ought to ask a better question: if taking a nap while being the parent of a wandering infant capable of breaking out of the house and getting access to a major road isn’t neglect, what is?
I was a social worker for three years, and I worked with children who had abuse visited upon them that defied the imagination. And all of those parents, who committed those unspeakable crimes? They never went to prison. Ever. Not one of my kids had a parent spend time behind bars for abuse. The threshold for charges against horrible parents isn’t too low – it’s far too high. This woman shouldn’t escape the, at the minimum, investigation she so rightly deserves.
bago
What, you are supposed to tie the kid to the bed if you ever go to sleep? Kids will find ways to roam, period. I have fond memories of escaping from my leash once I figured out how the clasp worked. Gave my mom a heart attack, but bored kids will find was to get into new things.
Prosecuting solves no problems.
ThymeZone
You don’t leave a child that age unsupervised.
Whatever that means, that’s what it means. In this case it means you don’t go to sleep and leave a 3-year-old unsupervised.
You get someone else to watch the child, or you stay awake.
Rob McDonagh
As any parent knows, you do NOT leave a 2 and a 3 year old unsupervised while you go to sleep. And what kind of sleep was this, anyway, that the 3 year old broke out of the house and the 2 year old was eating spaghetti on the floor?!? Yes, it was absolutely neglect. The “child wandering the highway” element puts it in neon lights, but the child eating spaghetti off the floor by itself qualifies as neglect.
Andrew J. Lazarus
I, too, vote for an intervention. Single parenting is hard and from the description, including the apartment as “filthy”, this woman isn’t making the grade. I hope the government is able to find some help and parent-training for her instead of sending the kids to foster care, but the status quo won’t do.
demimondian
Nonsense, TZ. What about at night? What, a single parent is never to sleep?
There are appropriate steps to take to secure your home if you need to sleep. First and foremost, sleep only when the child is asleep. Second, lock yourself in; yes, there’s a risk of fire, but the fix for that is smoke detectors, not depending on a kid to get to the front door in an inferno. Third, get a baby monitor. Fourth, get enough sleep at night so that you don’t wind up in a deep sleep if you do take a nap in the afternoon.
But, all that said, parents have to sleep, too, and that means being asleep with the kid in your care.
What I found more troubling is the two year old sitting on the floor eating spaghetti. That’s a much clearer signal of inattention than the child who had escaped.
demimondian
Just for clarity: I agree that intervention is probably called for. I would be unsurprised to find that the mother had issues with drugs or alcohol, given the description of the apartment, although there are other possibilities, as well, and I don’t know what the circumstances are. (Severe depression, for instance, causes many of the same problems in some cases.) No matter what, though, she sounds desperately in need of help, and I hope she gets it.
ThymeZone
Do you have a child protective services agency in your state?
Call them and try your harangue, and let us know how it turns out.
CaseyL
You’re saying parents can’t take naps, or even sleep at night, unless there’s someone awake and watching the kids. Are the parents supposed to hire sitters to pull nightwatch, or are they supposed to spend the first 5 or so years of the kid’s life never sleeping at the same time?
My little brother was an escape artist. Once, when he was about two, Mom left him asleep, in the living room, in a playpen taller than he was, so she could go into the kitchen and start on dinner. He disassembled the playpen in order to climb out, then climbed up on a living room table to unlock the front door so he could go outside. Mom came out, saw he was gone and the door was open. She ran outside in time to see him heading up the street, his diaper hanging around his knees.
Child protection laws are insane. As Sam notes, there are parents who abuse, rape, beat and murder their children – and no one stops them, no one saves their kids, and they never go to prison. Yet this woman – whose crimes, unless I’m missing something, consist of bad housekeeping, and going to sleep – is considered a neglectful mother and might lose both her kids to Protective Services.
demimondian
I have better sources than that, TZ — I have family in the intervention social work business. You know, the people who have to go to court to get “separation orders”? Where do you think I got my “harangue”, guy?
Grow up! You’re doing your usual over-state the case in absolutes shtick, and it’s more than a little offensive here.
ThymeZone
I’m saying what I’m saying. A sleeping parent and child wandering the street is neglect and abuse.
The authorities are obligated to abate the problem and/or take the child away and place it into appropriate care.
Beyond that, I’d need more facts about the case, but generally if a parent “takes a nap” and the child comes to harm for being unsupervised, then the adult is held accountable. In my state, I’m pretty sure that if this child had been killed out there on the road, the parent(s) would be in jail. And that’s the way it should be in every state.
ThymeZone
I’ms tating my opinion, asshole, and if you don’t like it, you can argue against it, or you can go fuck yourself, I really don’t care.
What the hell is your problem?
ThymeZone
What’s your fucking problem, Demi? What part of “That’s my opinion” as stated in my first post to this thread do you not understand, or not approve of?
Because I don’t need your goddam permission to state my opinion here, do I? Is there a new rule?
So what’s up?
Jonathan
Umm.. My wife was watching our two year old (at the time) granddaughter a while back at our daughter’s house. My wife went to the bathroom and when she came back, said granddaughter was no where to be found in the house. My wife then went outside and frantically started searching and shouting for our granddaughter, after several minutes the little girl came around the corner of the tool shed in the back yard and said “What?”.
We also lost our daughter in the mall one time when she was about five. We were with my in-laws and a couple of friends, everyone assumed that someone else had an eye on the kid. She was totally disappeared within thirty seconds. After some time of frantic searching we heard the PA system announce our names and call us to the security department and there she was, some employee in the store in which she had wandered into had asked her our names and alerted security.
I think that what is prejudicing many is the “filthy house” part of the story. Anyone who is not a good housekeeper is obviously a bad parent. I’m disabled and my wife is working about sixty hours a week and commuting another fifteen, our house is nothing to write home about. More often than not there are dirty dishes piled up in the sink, the floor goes unvacuumed for weeks at a time and the house is littered with stacks of books and papers. A neat freak would definitely call it “filthy”. We just think of it as “lived in”. Of course, our dog takes care of any food that gets dropped on the floor. [grin]
Paddy O'Shea
As the father of a house filled of contentious Fenian brats, let me say right here and now that the mother is guilty of neglecting her children and deserves whatever punishment the state lobs her way.
Why she would take an apartment by the interstate is beyond me. If they’re going to crawl out of the window (and they usually do), it should be into a well fenced and spacious yard. Preferably with barbed wire run across the top.
Believe me, it’s the only way to keep them from taking off.
Bruce Moomaw
We haven’t learned yet what other conditions were seen in the apartment by the cops. My own assumption — on hearing that her apartment was “filthy”, that her little girl was eating spaghetti of the floor, and that this was the SECOND time Junior had gotten out (Mama announced this fact to the cops, apparently, in a rather bored way) — all suggested to me when I read about this case that it WAS general neglect (which the kid getting out of the house once, by itself, would not necessarily have indicated). And so I don’t care to second-guess the authorities’ judgment on this point, unless some new information comes along suggesting that the impression left by the initial story was wildly wrong. (Indeed, the impression I got was that Mama may well be a drug abuser, or at least an alcoholic.)
ThymeZone
I agree with you. We have a 20-month-old here from 60 to 70 hours a week, under the care of me and the missus and our combined age of 126 years. And everyone who comes into this house is under strict instructions: Under no circumstances are the doors to be left unlatched such that the child can open the door and get out. The windows here are not an issue but if they were the rules would be the same. The child’s parents are given the same rules for their house, and if the child were out on the street I personally would intervene and I assure you it would never happen again, period. And nobody in these households disagrees with me. The general rule is simple: Whoever is charged with watching the child is responsible for her safety. Like I said for the benefit of the posting police, that’s my opinion, and AFAIK the law here pretty much follows that principle. And if the law does not, then the law needs to be changed.
Under what circumstances would somebody be unable to stay awake during the day and watch their child? Working at night, say? Fine. Then the same rule applies night and day. You wouldn’t go to work and leave your 3-year-old alone, you can’t sleep during the day and leave her alone either.
I’m truly amazed that there is even any controversy here.
Paddy O'Shea
I always have to laugh at school administrators when they go on about disruptive students, ADD, and the necessity of Ritalin for those youngsters suspected of being abnormally active.
It’s all a lie. They just can’t engage them in any meaningful way, and the kids run all over them.
ThymeZone
Mrs Zone chimes in:
“That mother has to call somebody if she is too tired or ill to watch the child. That means calling 911 if that is the last resort. If it is, then you call 911.”
Trust me, you don’t want to get into this with Mrs. Zone.
Janet
It’s neglect.
james richardson
When I was young I apparently woke up before my parents, pulled a chair over and unlocked and unchained our front door, and walked down the street to my grandparents’ house for pancakes.
Personally, I was not at all neglected. I think it’s just the age of the child… curious and capable.
Zifnab
He was a three-year-old, not Hodini. I can’t imagine the circumstance in which this kid could have made such a daring escape that didn’t involve gross neglegence by the mother.
James F. Elliott
As a social worker trained in child welfare, I can absolutely conquer that this meets the standard of neglect – specifically, in California (where I work), this would be failure to protect. Depending on how filthy the apartment is, the age of the spaghetti, etc. this could be a cumulative effect requiring removal, with the wandering incident as the principal complaint.
Right, Jonathan, with the exceptions being that you were responsible about it immediately. The thing with child welfare work is that it’s a case-by-case business in a legal labyrinth. The bottom line for a child welfare worker is that they have to act in the best interest of the child, and the only guidelines we ultimately have for this are our training, our colleagues, and our gut.
Are you still in the ’90s or something? This is far less prevalent than it used to be. But – and I say this as a social worker who deals with schools every day – I agree that there’s a certain breed of education professional far too willing to pull the trigger on differential diagnosis and pronouncing from On High the need for medication. ADD is often diagnosed far too early. As I’ve been known to say to parents – “He doesn’t have ADD; he’s three!”
James F. Elliott
ACK! “conquer” should read “concur.” I was up far too late last night…
Krista
Some kids really are impressive escape artists, and if the child wakes up earlier than the parents, be it from naptime or first thing in the morning, I can see how an escape could happen, despite the parents’ best efforts.
But…if the 2-year-old was also up, and eating spaghetti off the floor, and if the three-year-old was only in a diaper and t-shirt, AND if the kid has gotten out before, AND if the apartment was indeed filthy. Well…that’s pretty damning. I think in this case, it does look like the mom was neglectful. I don’t, however, think that we can automatically cry “neglect” every single time. Some kids just have a real talent for getting into places they shouldn’t, despite Herculean efforts by the parents to keep the kid safe.
TenguPhule
I’m going to wait for more information before making a call here, riled up as everyone is. Though the spagetti thing is a big starting negative against this woman…but it’s a sign of the times that I’m not even sure that that’s not just the newsies going overboard.
Jury’s out to lunch.
space captain
I also cannot believe that there is a controversy. My kids are 22 and 25 now. Neither was ever lost, forgotten or escaped from the house. We were always there to pick them up on time – never once was she or I late – and we both believed that they should not be out of your sight.
It is your obligation and responsibility not to let this kind of thing happen.
ben
howdy folks. i am reading all opinions and will weigh in. i have a b/g pair of 7 yr old twins. the boy is a runner. he has been able since he was 2 and a half to open all three of the doors to get out the front door. the main door is a double hander that adults fumble with.
that said as soon as i saw his prodigious talents escaping backed by his desire to i put safety bolts at the door tops. i also have safety latches on our windows. the top floor is blocked by a heavy child proofing expert installed gate.
fire extinguishers and smoke alarms throughout the house.
and yet i know when i have pulled double shift that that kid will get out if he wanted to bad enough. i can only sleep thinking i have covered what i can as best i can.
i feel for the mom but she obviously has reached the absolute limit of her abilities to care for her kids.
had the cops walked in and saw a distraught mom who had done what she could with a wild kid but other wise the kid was well tended i am sure this story would have a different slant.
the best news is this kid and his sibling will be in safe care and will most likely be better off. tough to be much worse.
ben
Tulkinghorn
This is the sort of thing that could happen in any family, but is pretty unlikely absent neglect. I fall asleep in the day fairly often, but my youngest is less than two months old, not two years old. Mom is not taking care of self and kids, probably isolated and depressed.
Perhaps the biggest act of neglect is being a poor, single mother trying to raise kids with little social or familial support. Whether that is her neglect, or is primarily that of society, is perhaps a political call. If she gets a good caseworker she may get some support that will help her out. Sad to say, kids may have better prospects in foster care, at least for a while.
demimondian
Oh, look! Peaceful demonstrations in Iraq over Hussein’s hanging! And six high-ranking terrawrists, too! And two American soldiers…but they signed a paper, so they don’t count, do they?
It’s gone beyond clusterfuck, into clusterbombfuck.
cfw
If neglect is defined as failure to use reasonable care, the thing speaks for itself. Neglect is inferable from the end result – toddler on interstate, mom asleep. What might be a closer question is whether there was reckless conduct.
This does not mean there must be foster care – a different question entirely. No parent I know of has ever gone through years of child raising without an incident or two of neglect – a kid that gets separated at a cathedral, then on ski slope (twice), in my case. It happens – traumatic for all concerned. No doubt foster parents have oops moments also.
cellar door
There’s not enough information here to judge what all of the circumstances were. If the two year old had climbed out of the window of a clean apartment in a good neighborhood, and was wearing cute little color-coordinated clothes, people would be upset and concernced, but the vehemous charges of neglect wouldn’t be the way they are.
Because public opinion is never slanted against single mothers.
Children do get themselves into dangerous situations. I managed to drive a golf cart off of a pier at a golf course with several adults nearby when I was two. It wasn’t neglect, it was an accident.
I also cut through my playpen and pulled the iron down on my head, snuck out the window if I woke up before my parents and ran down the street to a friend’s house.
And I know I used to dump food on the floor just to see what would happen. I also sampled the cat food, just because. I didn’t put it on a plate, either.
All normal kid stuff.
A tragedy was averted in this case. We don’t know whether it was a situation of neglect or not. For all we know the Mom had an unintented reaction to a medication, or works nights and hadn’t had a problem with the children before.
Parents do not have superhuman powers. And we shouldn’t expect them to.
Should the situation be investigated? Oh yes. Can we say anything definitive about what sort of parent she is based on this story? No.
craigie
I blame Bush for this whole event.
The Other Steve
Absolutely it’s neglect.
Before you go to sleep, you ought to make certain your kid is tightly locked up in their kennel.
The Other Steve
I remember once when my brother was maybe 3 years old or so, he locked himself in the bedroom. I don’t think he meant to lock himself in the bedroom, he just did.
This was an old house, back in the days before someone realized 3 year old kids would lock themselves in the bedroom and they put holes on the front of te knobs that you could stick a screwdriver in to unlock the door. (rather defeating the purpose of a lock, but…)
I think we finally instructed him to unlock the door, but it was nerveracking for my mom.
Although this is not as funny as the time my mother locked herself out of the house and we had to call the fire department. Don’t tell her I still remember that one. ;-)
The Other Steve
Isn’t this the fault of Clinton and the Welfare Queen establishment?
ThymeZone
Well, the woman said “Oh, he got out again” when the cops came to the door. Apparently she didn’t know he had been gone for 45 mins to an hour, at 9:00 in the morning.
My hunch is that that’s why she was charged. She was clueless.
cellar door
My parents were clueless when I snuck out, too. That whole sneaking thing.
He had been out before, so she had had a problem before. Do we know what sort of latches were on the windows? Or anything else about the situation?
And what was the second charge for?
ThymeZone
The stories don’t make that clear. It appears to be either related to the second child, or to the previous incident of the first child being out alone while his mother was unaware of his whereabouts, last Thursday.
That’s what I got from the news accounts, but there is detail missing so I could be wrong.
cellar door
So many details missing.
I always try to step back from my first emotional reactions to stories like this because of somthing that happened in my local grocery store. I was in line, and this woman behind my had two kids with her just *screaming*, in their PJs and kinda scruffy. I don’t have kids and was irritated by the whole thing, and gave her a nasty judgemental look. She saw it, stopped, and explained that she was sorry for the noise, her whole house was sick, she didn’t have a babysitter, and really needed to get food for dinner. She looked so tired and worn out, and really was doing the best she could.
It would have been all to easy for me to see kids in jammies, strung-out looking Mom, and jump to the conclusion she was being a shoddy parent.
Humble pie for me that day.
Mr Furious
Neglect. History of escape and the other circumstances seal the deal.
Though full disclosure and honesty requires me to admit my four year old has been lulling us into a false sense of security. A year or two ago we had hook-and-eye or slide bolts secured on exterior doors to make sure Ruby couldn’t get out. Plus a fenced yard with gates latched from the outside. Since escape does not seem to be a priority for her, we have clearly relaxed the security around here. If Ruby wanted out of the house she has the means and opportunity—we’ve hopefully eliminated the motive…
If the authorities took a look in my office (or the basement), however, they’d take my kid, my dog and condemn my house.
My wife is 36 weeks pregnant and she needs to take a nap (a necessity at this stage) so Ruby is parked in front of the ultimate security measure—the hypnotic television. At those times, Mrs F. is on the couch in the next room with a view of both doors, and she sleeps VERY lightly.
Plus we live miles from the Interstate… ;-)
Indiana DOT doesn’t walk away from this either IMO. Don’t they fence off the highways in that state?
ThymeZone
On and off ramps.
demimondian
C’mon, TZ, this is *Indiana*. Home of the clueless — from which FDDD holds her Ph.D., so maybe not everybody’s clueless, but enough of them.
canuckistani
One more opinion, worth what you pay for it-
No parent can be on guard 24/7/52. You do your best, and hope the precautions you’ve taken are enough. But accidents happen, and it isn’t always neglect.
In this case, though, the filth and the sphagetti on the floor makes me think that things are out of control and neglect is a real possibility.
Shaolin
Long time reader, first time poster.
Anyway:
half-naked child running on the freeway, hungry child eating off the floor, filthy apartment and mom asleep while all this is going on.
Yes, its neglect. Not the worst I’ve seen but definitely neglect and mom could prolly use some intervention.
Steve
This was one of the most disgusting stories I have read in a while. I mean, the mother’s reaction to hearing her kid was out playing on the highway was “Oh, he got out again”?
I am really shocked to find people taking the other side of this argument. Wow.
jake
Goodnes, I thought this must be a story from Ohio. Nation’s capital of the careless/evil parent. [/snark]
Not enough facts for me to get a wild hair and compared to a couple of stories I’ve read lately, this ain’t nothin’. I would say mom is at the very least, very tired and very clueless. But if we took all the kids from tired clueless parents, the little ankle biters would have to be stacked up in those U-Store-It places. Besides, that would mean taking them from two parent middle and upper class parents and those folks can afford lawyers. (Too bad this country is still several clue enemas short of the point where it will allow gay folks to adopt.)
Regarding the “filthiness” of her apartment. I’d have to see it. But that brings me to the windows. Is it at all possible that this is one of those less than ideal apartments where the landlord (or a large representative) only makes an appearance if a tenant is half an hour late with the rent? You know, the sort of bastard who thinks following code is for wimps? Whose personal motto is “Death before Repairs!” Who defines any attempt by a tenant to improve the situation as “damage?”
I’m fairly familiar with Indiana’s rules on apartments having done legal aid work for students in Bloomington and (purely anecdotal alert) after that work and living and renting in Bloomington (slum lord heaven) for six years I can say that NONE of the cretins I rented or my friends or the students rented from were familiar with their obligations to their tenants, especially with regard to safety regulations (and damage deposits). I had to help one friend convince her landlord that the windows in her apartment could not be sealed shut just because landlord was afraid some heat or a/c might escape. And to be frank, if the story were: “Mother, two toddlers die in fire.” And it turned out mom had nailed all of the windows shut because she was afraid they would get out, many people would say she was a reckless idiot.
Based on these facts alone, I hope the state makes an attempt to help the mother rather than place the kids in the foster care shuffle machine and walk away.
Jonathan
When I was twelve and my brother was eight we had to walk home from grammar school every day. Both my parents worked outside the home and there were no school buses or after school programs for us to wait at school until our parents could come and pick us up. It was either walk home in the afternoon or not go to school.
One of the roads we had to cross on the way home was a busy four lane road. One day as we were getting ready to cross this road, I was waiting for the traffic to clear so we could safely cross. My brother, who was ADHD (looking back I now know this) darted out into the road, he got across the first two lanes OK but when he got on the other side of the road he was hit by a car. He was lying in the road, not moving and with his right leg in an impossible position, I thought he was dead. My friend, who was walking with us, and I ran across the road and got to my brother. At this point I realized that my brother wasn’t dead but he was semi conscious and trying to crawl out of the road. The woman driving the car was going into hysterics, screaming and crying. I tried to keep my brother still while my friend ran to his house which was only a short distance away to call the ambulance.
When the ambulance arrived, as they were loading my brother in, the ambulance doors were open wide and sticking out into the road on the left side. Another woman driving by hit the ambulance door and knocked it off the ambulance. They had to call another ambulance to get my brother.
Luckily, my brother only had a broken hip and no brain damage. He spent almost four months in traction and almost another five months in a cast from his armpits to his right toe. For an ADHD child, needless to say, this was a form of torture.
My point here is this: If that had happened today, I have no doubt that it would be considered child abuse to allow an eight year old accompanied by a twelve year old to walk home across a busy street. To the best of my knowledge no one involved in this incident ever thought it was anything other than a tragic accident and I concur with that opinion. We were far from the only children walking home from that school who had to cross that busy road.
Standards have changed a lot in the last forty years and what was once a fairly normal part of life is now considered abuse. How far the standards will continue to move is any one’s guess but I wonder at what point we will have gone too far.
I know that horrendous abuse happens all too frequently, often that abuse is deliberate sadism and I think that people who do that sort of thing should be locked up for a long period of time, parents or no. I have no tolerance for anyone who deliberately causes harm to a child.
My tolerance for neglectful abuse is somewhat higher, there are many people in the world who have children and lack the mental capacity, the knowledge or the emotional stability to properly raise them. Sometimes the neglect *is* the fault of the parent but I suspect that many times it is due to simple incapacity. That may well be what has happened in this case.
neil
These kids are definitely worse off with an arrested mother. Her only crime is being asleep, and unlike ppgaz, I don’t think this is worth prosecuting over. It’s tantamount to arresting her for not renting an apartment farther away from the highway, or a maid so the police wouldn’t deem her home as “filthy.” (A filthy house isn’t a crime, is it?) And if having a child who eats stuff she finds on the floor is a crime, then your parents are probably criminals.
ThymeZone
Some more information on CNN’s video, link on their home page. I can’t link to it (it’s a javascript link) for you here.
Mary
If you don’t see their link on the main page, launch the video player and do a search within it for “toddler”. It should be the first hit.
ThymeZone
CNN: First page, first pane, “Watch Video” panel, story #2. “In harm’s way on the highway.”
Zifnab
Individually, I’d agree. And it seems that “lock’r up and throw away the key” is the classic “tough on crime” reaction that doesn’t really solve the problem. If this is a single parent, or a parent with a spouse too often away on business, or a sick parent, or simply an exhausted parent, I can only hope that any neglence charges filed against her result in aid not punishment.
But this is the type of thing Child Protective Services was created for. If nothing else screams “investigate”, this case does.
Mary
(The CNN video settings are different for me, TZ. I have the international edition of CNN set, so I only see that video listed in that pane if I set it to “most popular” rather than the default “featured videos”. But what you describe probably works for most people accessing CNN via U.S. settings.)
Steve
I don’t think this is true at all. I think people have an exaggerated idea of what the standards are today, no doubt exacerbated by a horror story or two they’ve read in the media.
Zifnab
Then there’s the question everyone at CNN is asking…
Where is O
bsama?ThymeZone
Oh yes, I forgot that they have different main pages for their different “editions.”
They also move stuff around a lot. In the time between our posts, they took down another link to that video on their main page and moved it into the Video feature. One gets the feeling that they juggle stuff around to find out where it gets the most attention. Which is okay, it just makes it hard to send others there to see something in particular.
OCSteve
Tech Tip:
When you want to link directly to something like that you can normally find the URL like this (IE):
-Launch the video/popup normally.
-Right click somewhere on the page, but not on the video or a picture.
-Select Properties.
-You can then see the URL and copy it (Highlight it and Control-C).
Here is a direct link to the video.
It doesn’t always work, but often does.
Mary
Ah. I tried that in Firefox, but it didn’t show the last parameter for Windows Media 9 player.
OCSteve
Disregard that strikethrough – I have no idea where it came from.
Krista
I blame Bush.
F
None of us know the full story, but the gist seems to be that a single mom fell asleep and her 3-year old left the house and her 2-year old started eating off the floor. The lock-em up crowd calls it neglect. Lets look at some suppose-its (my own word)
– Working all day fell asleep (we know none of the lock-em crowd ever gets tired and just happens to fall asleep).
– Can only afford an apartment near a highway (best place for a home, ask any poor person).
– No one to help around the house (the lock-em up crowd probably doesn’t understand the -single- part of single mom)
TZ and others, I grew up in a great family with parents, grandparents and alot of other relatives (too many in mind) close by to provide support, however I know not everyone had my upbringing, that is why I try to get the FACTS and I consider each person’s unique situation before I cry Lock-em up.
F
ThymeZone
Based on the available facts (woman does not know her 3-year old was gone for almost an hour, at 9:00 am, while he runs on the freeway) the charges are justified and the necessary processes should take their course.
It was true when I wrote it last night and it’s still true today.
If the laws that address these situations don’t result in charges filed in a case like this, then the laws are of no use.
Now, an agency, a court or some other authority will decide what’s best … and that’s the way it should be.
We have more than enough facts now to make that judgement and that’s the judgement I am making.
ThymeZone
Are you a spoof? “No around to help” is not an excuse for child neglect. It’s the parent’s responsibility to get help if she needs it. If she doesn’t know that, understand it, or know how to do it … she will learn now.
Pelikan
Well it’s a good thing we’re fighting about it, that child’s life depends on a bunch of random people on the internet agreeing!
PeterJ
It came from two dashes, the first one before “You can then” and the second one was between “Control” and “C”, both gone from your text. I guess WordPress is set to change the text between them to strikethrough. I think that’s also shown in F’s comment, but he/she might have used underscores.
-This text has dashes before and after-
_This test has underscores before and after_
marteen
I have a prediction:
In less than two years, there will be a third child for this woman to take care of.
PeterJ
F used dashes, underscores obviously makes the text italic.
And about the main story, there was a troubling bit from the video about feces on the walls. In my view, social workers should investigate and hopefully they’ll reach a conclusion about what should be done without being influenced by the media. And if the kids are taken from the mother, I hope that they won’t be seperated.
ThymeZone
Luckily no, it depends now on the law and on the efficacy of the authority and process in place to deal with such things. Even in Indiana (sorry, Hoosiers) they can get this right.
OCSteve
PeterJ – Thanks. Good to know.
PeterJ
If the Republicans had stayed in power just a bit longer, I promise you they had written some law that would have made every uterus federal property. And then we wouldn’t have had this problem. Then maybe an extension to the law also could have made anything produced in the uturus federal property. That could have solved even more problems.
ThymeZone
Separation of Uterus and State. It’s in the Constitution.
marteen
If the Republicans had stayed in power just a bit longer, I promise you they had written some law that would have made every uterus federal property.
So, promise me that when I do something to f**k up another human’s life (like have a third child when I cannot care for one) you will quickly find a way to shift the blame on Republicans. It will allow me sleep soundly (kind of this this woman).
Can’t you just call this for what it is? It’s neglect. And if this woman has another child, then it is beyond neglect. Period! Is this so hard to understand?
PeterJ
Didn’t Bush use that one the last time he went to the toilet by himself? I really think that Social Services should pay a visit to the White House, or we might find him running around on the highway only wearing his “Decider” t-shirt and a pair of soiled diapers.
PeterJ
From the story it seems like it’s neglect, not saying it isn’t, but I think you shouldn’t decide whether a woman is neglicting her kids from watching a news story much like you shouldn’t decide wether a woman is in a PVS by watching a video of her.
Anyway, it’s her choice to breed like there’s no tomorrow even if she can’t care for her children. I rather live in a world where that’s possible than in a world where the government decides if you are allowed to get kids or not. And I’m also pro choice.
Everyone should watch Idiocracy btw.
Jake
I must respectfully disagree. RPotIA only applies to women on feeding tubes and even then a doctor turned legislator who did not practice neurology has to issue his opinion of her condition based on old video tapes of the patient before random people can step in to save her life. So there!
Damn, Dayquil is better than vodka!
Alexandra
Hmm, abuse or not. I can’t tell. I don’t think I would ever take a nap during the day while I was watching a two year old, though I can certainly imagine why one would be driven to. Can’t say house is always presentable by cop definition of cleanliness. However, I did have one kid who was a real escape artist in the supermarket and on more than one occasion I was calling his name through every embarrassing aisle. I suspect there’s more to the story, perhaps on both sides, than is being written here.
Zifnab
Now that she’s famous, she’s totally going to get laid.
James F. Elliott
Bingo. If this is a first complaint, then the family will most likely receive some support classes and some supervision. At worst, the kids would be removed to a relative’s house for a short while while the case worker helps mom get her act together. Unless the apartment was totally squalid and mom either doesn’t give a shit or doesn’t get why she needs to shape up, those kids are not going to be removed to foster care or the shelter.
Jonathan, speaking as a child welfare professional, I’d be pretty shocked if it was viewed as anything other than an accident. AT BEST, if the paramedics made a report – as they are now legally required to – your mom MIGHT have had a visit from a social worker just to get her side of the story. Even in the “nanny state liberal” communities like the Bay Area (where I live and work), kids walking home from school is pretty normal.
Different municipalities have different procedures for handling child abuse and neglect complaints. In California, and I’d be surprised if it was any different elsewhere, the police have the sole power to remove children from the home. If a CPS social worker investigates and decides removal is warranted, they must call the police to facilitate. However, in many counties, the reverse is not true – the police do not have to call CPS in to do an investigation before deciding if removal is warranted; it’s best practice to do so, especially since the police have very different priorities and training than CPS does, but rarely mandated (for example, in my county, it’s only mandated by county policy and then only for drug busts). The police, as the responding entity in this case, have the mandate to consider the children’s immediate safety above all else, and they made the call for the removal. The child welfare system would have no ability to supersede that – the kids would need to wait for the disposition hearing in dependency court before they could be returned.
ThymeZone
I think that ship has sailed.