My only comment (for now) about Tim’s post below about the surveillance being conducted by the military is to wonder:
“How long before Hugh Hewitt and the Powerline are demanding the Ny Times be tried for treason for revealing this state secret?”
How Long?
by John Cole| 93 Comments
This post is in: Open Threads
Richard 23
Er, ah, Frist?
Well, maybe Melanie Morgan can be frist this time.
See Spocko or this (from awhile back).
jake
You mean they haven’t yet? Perhaps they are still recovering from Boxer’s attempt to inseminate the SoS while screaming “All your uterus are belong to us, you filthy d**e!”
Or whatever they’re saying happened.
Redhawk
If you’ve done nothing wrong and ignored the urge to contribute funds to Pro-Islamo mosques, you have nothing fear. Bank records? Count me as one would is glad President Bush is cognizant of those who are willing to fund the terrorists here and abroad.
RSA
If one thinks that America needs its own Stasi, one might as well insist that it be competent at keeping secrets.
Pooh
Christ on a pogo stick, why is the concept of “warrants” so foreign to some people? Of course, you would never think of asking if they had one if someone with a badge came to search your house, right? I mean, if they are at your door, you must have done something to deserve it.
demimondian
So, normals — do you think that Redhawk is serious, or a spoof? I used to think he/she was serious, but now I’m skeptical.
RSA
Anyone who starts a sentence
has got to be a spoof.
Tim F.
You are aware that people use that precise sentence to parody overzealous authoritarians who want to discard the Bill of Rights, correct? Just curious. Please tell me that you were making an ironic joke.
TenguPhule
Dougj, is that you?
demimondian
Poor Shrubya I’d actually be able to summon up some sympathy — stop laughing back there, Tim! — if there weren’t many other plans out there. It’s just that they don’t leave us stuck in Iraq, which means that they aren’t Acceptable, and so Are Not Plans.
ThymeZone
Redhawk is under spooficion.
jake
Bush to critics: Come up with a better plan so I can swipe it and claim I decidered it on my own. The one I stole from McCain’s no damn good. Heh, heh.
ThymeZone
My version of Bush To Critics:
Unless you can figure out a way to fix the completely fucked up world I’ve created, you have no right to criticize me.
Hmm. I can’t make this out to be anything other than rank sociopathy.
The fucker should be in jail.
tBone
Dead giveaway. You spoofs have got to start watching your tells.
Hyperion
ten little missing words
jake
The fucker should be in jail.
Like so.
Only with none of the intelligence or charm, however malificient.
Paddy O'Shea
Speaking of “how long” …
Condoms “Too Big” for Indian Men
A survey of more than 1,000 men in India has concluded that condoms made according to international sizes are too large for a majority of Indian men.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6161691.stm
tBone
From Paddy’s link:
Smart-arse BBC writers.
tBone
From Paddy’s link:
Smart-arse BBC writers.
Vladi G
Yup. He/She’s either a spoof or a fucking moron. Althought, admittedly, my money’s on the latter.
tBone
Apologies for the double post. Site is misbehaving tonight.
Paddy O'Shea
tBone – Well, it is a blow to the size counts crowd. India, home to over a billion people, has apparently accomplished this on short notice.
Paddy O'Shea
Apparently Georgie Bush concedes on 60 Minutes tomorrow night that his decisions have led to more instability in Iraq. And he actually goes back to that old “nuclear Iraq” bugaboo that has been so roundly discredited in the sentient world.
Where the knuckles meet the road, as they say.
http://www.drudereport.com/flash.htm
Paddy O'Shea
Fack!
http://www.drudgereport.com/flash.htm
A “Drude” is a Druid that skateboards.
AlanDownunder
The agency that produced all that great intelligence about Iraq. Intelligence that trumped State & CIA (in the absence of a functioning NSC). The agency at the bottom of Cheney’s stovepipe.
There’s also this:
NYT (via Laura Rozen)
http://www.warandpiece.com/blogdirs/005439.html
RandyH
I am lazily repeating this comment in this thread from the one by Tim below. Everyone needs to know this.
Without reading any of the comments above, I am compelled to tell everyone… After 9/11, there was extreme paranoia going on and then the Patriot Act got passed. At the time, I was working as an IT guru for a MAJOR stock brokerage (to remain nameless) and we built a data-mining system that would make Stalin proud. We built a system that could almost predict who the next great “terrorist” would be… AND we made all of our work available to whatever “other” intelligence agencies that might be interested. Since then the system has been built upon greatly and the “other” intelligence agencies (NSA/CIA) still have their hands in all of your personal financial data – ALL OF IT. Every last morsel of personal financial data is and has been evaluated by these folks since early 2002… along with your email, web reading, phone calls and, on occasion, your paper snail mail as well.
There is a separate “underground” government that is evaluating everything that we do. At the time, when I worked inside the private sector apparatus that supported it, I thought that it was protecting all of us from imminent disaster. I have since learned that it was all just a hoax to let them violate our basic rights as Americans for political gain. I don’t work in that business anymore. I couldn’t possibly do that to our people anymore. But they’re still watching everything that you do. Seriously, start paying cash for everything.
GOP4Me et al
Good! If it keeps me safer from terrorism, I’ll sleep all the more soundly for knowing it.
Why? If I haven’t been supporting terrorists or terrorist-enablers like Barbara Boxer or the ACLU, what do I have to be worried about? If I haven’t been buying child pornography or terorist propoganda, why should I pay for things in cash? I’m glad that the government is monitoring these activities, and I’m proud of the fact that my nation still contains enough diligent, patriotic, security-minded individuals and groups willing to sift through the endless stream of data you mention.
America is all the stronger for this program, and all the safer. For the sacrifice of the illusory “freedom” of privacy in wrongdoing, we have obtained the infinitely greater freedom from terrorists menacing our well-being. So long as you love America, God, and freedom, and hate both terrorism and those who abet its fomentation, you should receive this news with good cheer.
RandyH
GOP4Me et al-
Heil Hitler! The great one is watching over all of us! He will protect us from ourselves!
You are such a fucking idiot. People like you have been telling people like me to move away to communist countries for a LONG while. It’s about time that I TELL YOU TO JUST FUCK OFF! Move yourself to the fascist dictaorship of your choice. I am an American and I am proud of what we used to stand for. I am proud of our constitution and everything it stands for, including privacy. No one has a right to dig in my, or your, personal financial affairs. PERIOD. The terrorism occurs… and who gets put under the microsope? Huh? US!
You are such a fucking idiot!
GOP4Me et al
Once again, a liberal can’t discuss American safety without violating Godwin’s rule and dragging Hitler into the discussion.
It’s a necessary sacrifice to protect America. I’ll gladly pay such a toll; those unwilling to do so should leave.
I do agree with you on one thing: the people who should’ve been under surveillance were the terrorists, but unfortunately Clinton and his ACLU-loving henchmen were too spineless to do it. It takes a real man to give the necessary orders. George Bush is a President who understands that a time of crisis is no time to fret over false freedoms that only help evildoers and their enablers, freedoms never mentioned in the Constitution and only invented as cover for those who hate us by those judicial activists and others among us who secretly side with our enemies in despising everything American.
This President understands that in a time of crisis, Americans should do what is expected of them. If you have any complaints, now is not the time to make them. Making them will only help our adversaries. Now is the time to hunker down and sleep peacefully, knowing that wiser men are protecting you as you rest. There hasn’t been a terrorist attack in this country since 9/11/01 for a reason, you know.
The typical liberal response to reason. When facts and logic have abandoned you, ad hominems are all you have left.
Paddy O'Shea
RandyH – You are the victim of a cruel spoof. Goop4Twee has been working this tiresome routine of his for years. If you wish, go to the wreckage of his former spoof site, Scrutator. The only good thing about it is it died.
Not only that, but apparently he is a lawyer from – get this – Vermont. Yup, Ben & Jerry, Bernie Sanders, Birkenstocks, thousands of soul-deadening knick knack shops, all existing beneath a green putrid fog produced by seemingly millions of methane emitting dairy cows.
Yep, you got it. He’s from Hell.
The man is a walking depravity.
GOP4Me et al
F-ck you, Paddy.
Libelous assertions, and quite untrue. I am neither a lawyer, nor am I from Vermont. Although I completed law school, I am not a lawyer. Moreover, I am from Delaware. I merely reside in Vermont at the moment, and am trying to flee this accursed land as soon as financially possible.
If this were true, then I should be sent to Guantanamo. Fortunately, it is not. I am every bit as patriotic as my screen name would imply. Paddy has been a thorn in my side ever since the days of my now-defunct blog, Scrutator. In fact, he and his ilk were largely responsible for destroying it, by driving away a dedicated conservative readership with incessant leftist lies and invective.
Having already destroyed one blog, those same leftists are now intent on destroying another. These people truly have no shame, and must be stopped at all costs before they continue to aid and abet the America-hating terrorists harbored in their midst.
RandyH
GOP4Me et al-
Thank you so much for your assurances that everything is A-O-K, DADDY!
I repeat – You are such a FUCKING IDIOT!
I am so happy to be living under the reign of our FEARLESS leader George W Bush. He is such a strong man. Oh, to even imagine rubbing up against his manly frame… must make you tingle all over, huh, GOPblablahblah…
Come on, man! The ACLU would be the one last resource to you once you are ultimatley charged for your own crimes against humanity for the vile positions you take against free peoples of the earth. You are vulgar and should be put away, I believe. But they might take mercy on you and defend your right to speak so hatefully of your fine country. Good luck to you.
… And while I don’t agree with some things Barbara Boxer says, I am glad she is representing the people of California. When I used to live there, I voted for her twice.
GOP4Me et al
Well, it is, except for the Democrats winning Congress.
Oh, come on, now. That’s a bit harsh, isn’t it?
If you agree with me, why are you being so sarcastic about it?
Not if we send them to Gitmo, they won’t! I’ll happily follow them there, too- if America deems it necessary to secure our essential freedom and prosperity.
I’d have something to say about this, but since I currently live in Vermont I’m hardly in a position to talk.
GOP4Me et al
Come on, Paddy. ‘Fess up. You’re writing Randy, aren’t you? It’s okay, you can be honest. Don’t be modest about it, he’s a good one.
RandyH
Thank you , Paddy.
I have been an observer here for years. I rarely comment. I am aware of folks like GOPblahblahblah and Darrell and I love to take dicks like them on. They’re fed by propaganda and can not stand up to facts that originate from reality. I am comfortable yacking with them until my head hurts and I just need a nap. Then I can come back at it. Now is nap time.
GOP4Me et al
Nighty-night.
Paddy is a fucking killjoy, isn’t he? It’s getting so’s an honest spoof can’t hardly make ends meet on this here blog. I have no idea how Darrell pulls it off, but he’s probably John’s sockpuppet so his meal ticket is relatively secure.
Paddy O'Shea
Goop – Click on my name. Then kiss the first thing you see.
GOP4Me et al
No need. I’ve got one of those too, Paddy, so your Fenian charms will not work on me.
RandyH
GOPblahblahblah-
Sending the American Civil Liberies Uniom to GITMO. That about says it for you, doesn’t it?
You are a pathetic creature, aren’t you?
You are such a FUCKING IDIOT!
GOP4Me et al
Your link’s busted anyway, Paddy. That’s okay, I saw it the other day when you told demimondian or Andrew or one of those other moonbats to give it a look-see.
Right now I’m doing a Google Image Search of Karl Marx, looking for funny pictures. So far, no luck. I’m about 20 pages into it, and I’m pretty bearded out at this point.
GOP4Me et al
Simmer down, man. I was just funning you. Sorry if I hurt your feelings. I’m not really an idiot, I just play one on TV.
Paddy O'Shea
Aiieeee!! Somebody has been fooking with me leprachaun! Wait’ll I get my hands on the miserable SOB …
Goop? Do you like Lucky Charms?
RandyH
Anyhoo, it IS nap time. I am tired. I hope everyone takes seriously the important stuff I mentioned earlier. It is not exactly news that our government is illegally looking into literally every aspect of our private lives. The question must become, though… What are we willing to do about it?
Are we ready to impeach Bush/Cheney? The New Mexico state legislature is about to file for impeachment. If they do, will we support it?
And even once the crooks are gone, we’re still vulnerable to future crooks. Shit needs to happen here, guys. What more can I say? This is the biggest inconvenient issue to hit us in quite a while and it is a very big deal.
GOP4Me et al
It wasn’t me, I lack the prerequisite technological know-how. Plus, I’m not really an anti-Irish racist, I just play one on TV. Just ask DougJ, he’ll back me up.
Only with Guinness.
Paddy O'Shea
It’s not easy being Irish in a German world.
GOP4Me et al
Frankly, at this point it’s too terrifying and depressing to even contemplate. I just harbor some secret hope that Congress will make some heads roll in the Administration, or at least sabre-rattle in that direction, and that this will scare the secret police into behaving themselves. I know, it’s pretty naive, but you’ve got to tell yourself lots of lies to make it through the day. What’s one more?
Well, I’d probably support it, but I don’t really think that’s likely to become the decisive factor.
Not much I can do about it, except vote every couple years and write some letters/make some phone calls. Then again, I don’t want to go overboard with that shit. I kinda like not being on a no-fly list right now, and the reality is that excessive political activism could change all that.
GOP4Me et al
I thought you lived in Cali. The Terminator is Austrian.
RandyH
GOPblahblahblah-
You are human, aren’t you. Thank you for caring about the future of our democracy.
Kiss, hug.
GOP4Me et al
Bear in mind, the Irish often had uncomfortably warm relations with Germany due to their shared antipathy for the British. The Irish even sent condolences to the German Embassy in Dublin when Hitler died. That’s a tough one to live down. Also, if memory serves, the 1916 Easter Uprising involved a German U-Boat shipping Irish POWs from the British Army ashore with weaponry and the best wishes of the Kaiser. That’s a lot easier to understand and moralize, but still kinda shady. The German Army was not pleasant in Belgium in the First World War, either.
Paddy O'Shea
The Germans, Goop. They’re everywhere. Bush is German, Cheney is German, the whole goddamn Republican Party is German. With the exception of Giuliani and McCain, and you know what is going to happen to them.
Heh heh heh.
And the English are German, too! Don’t you forget that!
Ever go over to Rightwing Nuthouse? Practically everyone commenting there is me. No shit. I got Moran wrapped up like a madman in a straitjacket.
Paddy O'Shea
RandyH – Please. Go take your nap.
Kissing Goop will cause you a lifetime of regret.
GOP4Me et al
Only when you pry off the cyborg exoskeleton do you arrive at the pink-ish liberal beneath.
Okay, my mind has begun to devolve into Ahnuld-mode. (I blame Paddy, for being Californian.) I’m out of here. Smell you lefties later.
BTW, watch out for that Darrell guy. He’ll probably amble on by this thread sometime around mid-morning, or maybe noonish. Watch out for that one. I don’t think he’s kidding.
Paddy O'Shea
Yeah, the family is waking up and I haven’t even been to bed yet. They’re about to be treated to a day of me sleeping on the couch.
Goop – We did play the two German races off each other during WWII, it’s true. Unfortunately it didn’t work out and some of them lived.
GOP4Me et al
Bush is also part-Irish. He’s descended from the Irishman who let the English invade the country in the first place. I read it on salon.com a while back. I shit you not, this time.
Well, probably some Celts escaped the sixth-century genocide, and survived as the lowest social castes in the new British order. One hopes, anyway.
Cordially?
Yeah, it’s a pretty icky thought for me, too. Not that there’s anything wrong with that sort of thing, but it’s not to my taste. Then again, I never tried, so who knows?
Paddy O'Shea
Goop – Well, if its kissing you want, I got my Leprachaun picture fixed.
GOP4Me et al
I guess the Celtic reconquest of Europe will have to wait for a couple more millenia, then. Drat! I was looking forward to declaring myself King of the Gauls.
Okay, this is getting too silly even for me. I’m out of here for real, this time. Later, dudes.
GOP4Me et al
Stay out of my parade, you!
Paddy O'Shea
Ho hum.
Paddy O'Shea
Do YOU know how to make a ho hum?
Try giving your wife twenty dollars.
ThymeZone
Sure. I call bullshit. You tried to predict who “the next great terrorist” would be by looking at stock brokerage data?
When did stock brokerages start letting their IT people drink on the job?
Ripley
Well, I’m betting that bin Laden shut down his PayPal account because of this news. And we were this close! to finding him, too. Dangit!
ThymeZone
Debit or credit, Mister Laden?
ThymeZone
Fellas, we think we’ve identified the Next Great Terrorist.
It’s Warren Buffett.
JJim, would you put up the Power Point slides, please?
ThymeZone
I must apologize for being an Arizonan this morning. I am watching the mealy mouhted piece of crap John McCain describe the grotesque maneuverings that might be necessary to get Bush’s latest brain fart past the Congress. After four years, after all the lies and all the ugly bullshit, these assholes are still scheming and planning this as a political exercise, figuring how to divide and conquer Americans, browbeating other Americans as if they, not a bunch of insane Arabs and a lying president, are the cause of the difficulties.
I urge everyone to listen carefully to the first ten minutes of McCain’s appearance on Face the Nation today. Watch and listen. Observe the face of George Bush as he appears in a clip from tonight’s Sixty Minutes interview, ans ask yourself, why is this man smiling when he talks about a war?
ThymeZone
Lefty blogs are talking about a Bush reversal on global warming in the SOTU address ten days from now.
Uh, given the fact that this meathead has fucked up or ruined everything he has touched in his life, and especially in the last six years, do we really want HIM on our side in this debate?
Darrell
I think whenever government employees who have taken an oath of secrecy leak confidential details of secret programs involving national security to the NY Times which then publishes it, they should be free to do so if they “feel” it’s the right thing to do. Because that’s what really matters.
ThymeZone
Government employees who swear to secrecy in order to cover up perversion of liberty and constitutional protections should be hanged. They are the enemies of the people. And that includes blog pests who publicly support these treasonous activities. Such as Darrell.
Darrell is the enemy of America. Darrell is what we are fighting against. Darrell is what you get when the terrorists win.
Darrell
Problem is, they have decided for us in violation of their secrecy oath, that “perversion of liberty and constitutional protections” = spilling details of perfectly legal programs tracking terrorist finances.. as just one example that actually happened.
ThymeZone
Exactly.
Darrell
Yes of course, those spilling confidential details of perfectly legal programs involving national security = noble truth tellers… according to the ‘reality based’ nuts.
Richard 23
Heh. I’m sure that Redhawk supports incessant investigations and oversight of the Bush Administration. After all, if they did nothing wrong, they have nothing to fear.
Watch out RandyH. Once GOP slips you some roofies you’re totally shagged.
Marc
It’s legal cuz The Decider said it was!
It’s amazing Darrell can ever hear the news with his head so firmly planted between Bush’s thighs.
Marc
RandyH
ThymeZone, who I usually enjoy reading, called bullshit on me. Okay. I guess that’s fair. Anyway, stock brokerages were heavily scoured for investment data after 9/11 to figure out who short-sold and who bought put options on stocks most affected by the attacks. This is widely believed to be the means of financing for the people who carried out the attacks of 9/11, by the way… and I am not convinced that it was Osama bin Laden or al Qaeda, either. They’re an attractive target because they’re foreigners – so we immediately all bought that line of argument right off the bat. I think the actual terrorists were a bit closer to home. After all, who benefitted most from 9/11 and the Anthrax scares? Not Osama, though it’s interesting that our great government just can’t seem to find him. What are the odds of that?
What we developed was a system to, among many other things, determine these trends building up before the next big incident. As a result, it gave access to all of your data and mine for mining activities like this. The patriot act required all financial institutions share all data with the interested government agencies, trusting that they would do the right thing with it. Instead, this data, along with phone, internet and mail records, has been used to track dissenters and journalists, etc… the biggest “threats” to the powers that be.
chopper
If you’ve done nothing wrong you have nothing fear
if i’ve done nothing wrong then they have no reason to go through my records.
dslak
Well now, they wouldn’t be going through your records if there wasn’t good reason to think you had done something wrong, would they?
TR
Man, how far off the rails do you have to be to put “reality” in scare quotes?
Do I really live in a country with such pants-pissing cowards as Darrell? Look, if you want to live in a repressive, no-rights banana republic, there are tons of them out there for you to move to.
There’s no need to destroy our country just to create the fascist dreamland you desire.
chopper
you’re kidding, right?
Otto Man
Darrell’s been quiet for a while. He must be looking over Senator Cornyn’s speeches to come up with a response to plagiarize.
Krista
And chopper nails it in the most succinct POTD.
jake
How long before some flipnut says Saddam is continuing his reign of terror from beyond the grave?
Warning: The link will take you to a story about children killing themselves. I wish I could say I was 100% certain no one would be stupid enough to blame this on a dead man, but…
Zombie Santa Claus
I thought the roofies were slipped to him, not the other way around. Anyway, don’t cockblock the poor bastard. This may be his only chance for human affection. I heard his wife was busy banging Mongo.
TenguPhule
Perfectly legal because Bush and his people say so, but claim the courts have no right to rule on them.
Darrell tries to connect the words but fails to get the meanings.
ThymeZone
What evidence exists that anyone actually intentionally profited from 911, knowing that it was coming and manipulating stocks or options accordingly?
Just so you know, we were arguing this bullshit with conspirowacko Usenet nuts almost from the time the rubble reached the ground.
These “trends” you mention are nothing but speculation expressed in a bunch of code that in all liklihood will never be used and never produce anything of value. Isn’t that true?
Beej
OH MY GOD. Darrel has arrived and another thread is screwed. Tell me, please, what is so difficult about ignoring this troll? Really, it’s easy. Just proceed as if he has said nothing, because when it comes right down to it, NOTHING is precisely what he has said.
dslak
Darrell seems awfully controversial for a guy who only ever says that he likes pie.
dslak
Is this a trick question? I know that *I* have nothing to worry about!
chopper
right, because the US government never puts people on suspect lists without a damn good reason. as you can tell from the story preceding this one:
maybe back in the day they really were after the quakers’ yummy oatmeal recipe.
the whole reason we have constitutionally-guaranteed rights is to draw a line in the sand that the government cannot cross. the founders of this country did that for a reason, namely that there is no such thing as a perfect government. to think that as long as you yourself consider yourself innocent you don’t need constitutional protections is absurd and quite frankly un-american (and i don’t throw that term around glibly).
think about this, especially on a day like today.
ThymeZone
You are exactly right.
It’s an indication of the damage done to this country by the authoritarians that the notion could even be considered. It’s the mindset that can and will lead directly to a police state, and don’t let the dismissals and scoffing of the Darrells distract you from that fact.
Liberty and freedom are lost when the population accepts the idea that “only bad guys need protection.”
chopper
what i find funniest is that today we honor a man who had constant surveillance and an FBI file a few feet thick because he dared to publicly state that blacks deserved equal rights.
how much of his mail was read? how much of his privacy was violated?
dslak
Like terrorism, uppity blacks were a threat to the American way of life.
If you think about just why that comparison is absurd, maybe those who are unconvinced might see what the problem is with the justifications offered for the current surveillance regime.
chopper
apparently, given that they were being spied on left and right, the government thought so.
Jake
Thought it bore repeating.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the CIA has a few inches of paper on him too. There was some domestic spying during the civil rights movement, justified by the theory that: 1. The civil rights leaders must be getting help from some where (being black they of course weren’t smart enough to think all of that stuff up on their own).
2. That some where that is providing help must be interested in disrupting the way of life in the US.
3. That some where must be Communist Russia.