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Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

With all due respect and assumptions of good faith, please fuck off into the sun.

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

Petty moves from a petty man.

If you cannot answer whether trump lost the 2020 election, you are unfit for office.

Michigan is a great lesson for Dems everywhere: when you have power…use it!

Republicans want to make it harder to vote and easier for them to cheat.

Those who are easily outraged are easily manipulated.

The real work of an opposition party is to hold the people in power accountable.

Weird. Rome has an American Pope and America has a Russian President.

The only way through is to slog through the muck one step at at time.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

The republican ‘Pastor’ of the House is an odious authoritarian little creep.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

Rupert, come get your orange boy, you petrified old dinosaur turd.

In after Baud. Damn.

If you thought you’d already seen people saying the stupidest things possible on the internet, prepare yourselves.

Second rate reporter says what?

Come on, man.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

Today in our ongoing national embarrassment…

My right to basic bodily autonomy is not on the table. that’s the new deal.

I am pretty sure these ‘journalists’ were not always such a bootlicking sycophants.

This chaos was totally avoidable.

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You are here: Home / Politics / Hillary is in! And She is in it to WIN!

Hillary is in! And She is in it to WIN!

by John Cole|  January 20, 20076:46 pm| 264 Comments

This post is in: Politics

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Apparently it is big news that Hillary Clinton has announced she is running. I was uner the impression she announced she was running in 2000.

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Reader Interactions

264Comments

  1. 1.

    Zifnab

    January 20, 2007 at 8:00 pm

    She just needs to get Al Gore as her running mate and print out a bunch of buttons that say,

    “Clinton/Gore in ’08: Remember when things didn’t suck?”

  2. 2.

    RandyH

    January 20, 2007 at 8:01 pm

    Blah!

  3. 3.

    Pb

    January 20, 2007 at 8:01 pm

    she announced she was running in 2000

    Yes, but that was for Senator.

  4. 4.

    The Other Steve

    January 20, 2007 at 8:02 pm

    I was wrong. I didn’t think she’d try to run.

    I don’t know what she is thinking. But when all is said and done, she’s 10 times better than any candidate the Republicans can come up with… and 100 times better than Bush.

  5. 5.

    demimondian

    January 20, 2007 at 8:03 pm

    No, John, the big news is that Sam Brownback is running. Hillary’s been running since 1972!

  6. 6.

    RandyH

    January 20, 2007 at 8:03 pm

    My above comment was carefully scripted, poll tested and focus-group approved, as everything related to the Hillary campaign. Where are those handlers?

  7. 7.

    RandyH

    January 20, 2007 at 8:05 pm

    demimondian is right. Ted Haggerd um, I mean Sam Brownback is running!

  8. 8.

    Paddy O'Shea

    January 20, 2007 at 8:06 pm

    Actually there are two big pieces of news right now. 21 American service people died in Iraq in the last 24 hours. And George W. Bush has declared tomorrow National Sanctity of Human Life Day.

  9. 9.

    RandyH

    January 20, 2007 at 8:09 pm

    Paddy is right. We should parade flag-draped coffins in front of the White House to commemorate the big day. And fire up the marching band with the patriotic tunes! Heil to the chief!

  10. 10.

    Paddy O'Shea

    January 20, 2007 at 8:13 pm

    21 US soldiers dead in Iraq today

    http://americablog.blogspot.com/2007/01/21-us-soldiers-dead-in-iraq-today.html

    I’m going for a walk.

  11. 11.

    RandyH

    January 20, 2007 at 8:13 pm

    And “pretty-boy” Bill Richardson declared he’s running today, too. Who’s that? Oh yeah, right.

    But seriously, he ain’t gonna be president but he would make and excellent Secretary of State. He’s the guy who just single-handedly negotiated a cease-fire in Darfur. That beats the hell out of all of Condi’s achievements combined, but she’s prettier and does better photo-ops.

  12. 12.

    ThymeZone

    January 20, 2007 at 8:18 pm

    100 times better than Bush.

    This has been today’s edition of “Damning With Faint Praise.”

  13. 13.

    ThymeZone

    January 20, 2007 at 8:20 pm

    she’s prettier

    { spits food onto nearby cat }

    Say what?

  14. 14.

    RandyH

    January 20, 2007 at 8:24 pm

    It ain’t hard to beat Bill Richardson in a beauty contest, ThymeZone.

  15. 15.

    ThymeZone

    January 20, 2007 at 8:27 pm

    He’s a very handsome man.

  16. 16.

    RandyH

    January 20, 2007 at 8:29 pm

    Who, condi?

  17. 17.

    demimondian

    January 20, 2007 at 8:37 pm

    I think that a Clinton/Richardson ticket would be awesome. She’s got brains; he’s got diplomatic ability. Each of them has what the other lacks.

  18. 18.

    ThymeZone

    January 20, 2007 at 8:40 pm

    Who, condi?

    Heh.

  19. 19.

    Dreggas

    January 20, 2007 at 8:44 pm

    But seriously, he ain’t gonna be president but he would make and excellent Secretary of State. He’s the guy who just single-handedly negotiated a cease-fire in Darfur. That beats the hell out of all of Condi’s achievements combined, but she’s prettier and does better photo-ops

    pretty in the has a gap between her teeth you could drive a semi through and definitely bares a striking resemblence to the pivot point of a bulldozer.

  20. 20.

    demimondian

    January 20, 2007 at 8:53 pm

    Why do you care if Condi Rice is pretty or not? I don’t understand that at all.

  21. 21.

    ThymeZone

    January 20, 2007 at 8:54 pm

    Here’s why the terrorists will never beat America, my friends:

    We just sold a car at Barrett-Jackson for $5 million dollars, a beautiful blue handmade Carol Shelby cobra.

    What a country. What a car. OMFG.

  22. 22.

    RandyH

    January 20, 2007 at 9:04 pm

    I never said Condi is pretty. Just prettier than Bill Richardson. You know, in these televised days, you need to have a certain level of prettiness to be eleccted to a major office. Appointments are another thing altogether. Check the link on Condi’s name… Gotta love the Princess’s fine work collecting all the lovely photos.

  23. 23.

    ThymeZone

    January 20, 2007 at 9:11 pm

    I think we should be careful about having a president prettier than Bill Richardson.

    Damned careful.

  24. 24.

    demimondian

    January 20, 2007 at 9:13 pm

    I was speaking more to Dreggas than to you, but, again…is W attractive? He doesn’t seem that way to me.

  25. 25.

    ThymeZone

    January 20, 2007 at 9:21 pm

    is W attractive?

    Yes, if you’re a python.

  26. 26.

    RandyH

    January 20, 2007 at 9:23 pm

    Dubya’s not attractive to me – on either physical or ideological grounds – and I’m gay. Wellll, physically, for a guy his age, if we could remove the personality, smirk and general evilness about him, he might not be SO bad. You know, a big dumb lug has its appeal, I suppose. But he sure is was attractive to Redneck America. Personally, I’ve always thought he was the anti-christ – and I’m an Atheist. Just – all the crazy red-state religious folks loved him so much that, no matter how much I tried to warn that he’s trouble, they just loved him all the more.

    I never understood the appeal.

  27. 27.

    vwcat

    January 20, 2007 at 9:28 pm

    I wish Hillary would just crawl back under her rock.
    I really dislike her and will not vote for her no matter what.
    she is nothing more than Bush in a bad pantsuit.

  28. 28.

    ThymeZone

    January 20, 2007 at 9:31 pm

    she is nothing more than Bush in a bad pantsuit.

    Like the haiku, but ….

    The idea of Bush in a nice pantsuit is really upsetting to me.

  29. 29.

    RandyH

    January 20, 2007 at 9:39 pm

    she is nothing more than Bush in a bad pantsuit.

    You got that right. She used to be real, back in the days when she took on what she called the “right-wing conspiracy.” But now that she’s joined forces with her former enemy, nobody knows who she is anymore. What does she believe in other than polls and focus groups? Does she have any principles at all?

    I know she’s the favorite among many for now. I hope that’s just because they don’t know the others in the field yet. But we’ve got to stop supporting who the pundits say “has the best chance in the horserace.” They are consistently wrong. Vote with your gut-feel. In 2004 Democrats voted for Kerry in the primary, not because they liked him that much but because they were told “he has the best chance of winning.” Edwards would have done much better… And Dean would have won with flying colors if his famous “scream” weren’t played 10,000 times a day by the pundits who wanted to kill him off. He was dangerous to our Authoritarian future. Kerry was no threat, even if he won. Neither is Hillary by the way.

  30. 30.

    RandyH

    January 20, 2007 at 9:42 pm

    Correction: Dean would have been a threat to our Authoritarian future… Kerry or Hillary wouldn’t be, so the corporate establishment would support either of them.

  31. 31.

    Prince Roy

    January 20, 2007 at 9:49 pm

    Clinton=Disaster. The Democratic party seems intent on continuing the GOP lock on the White House. Even if she were able to win, which I strongly doubt, it can’t be good for America to have the White House controlled by just two families for 25+ years, from 1988-2012. There have to be other qualified candidates surnamed something other than Bush or Clinton.

    I myself could support Hagel or Edwards, depending on how it all plays out.

  32. 32.

    CaseyL

    January 20, 2007 at 9:53 pm

    Clinton’s not an authoritarian; she’s just too comfortable with the corporate state. That’s about the only thing I have against her, and while it’s not a trivial thing, it won’t stop me from voting for her if she’s the candidate.

    Then again, I can’t think of anyone the Dems could nominate who won’t be better than whoever the GOP nominates. Hagel’s the only one on the GOP side who’s even a recognizably decent human being – and, SFAIK, he’s not running.

  33. 33.

    Jonathan

    January 20, 2007 at 9:55 pm

    Chris “Tweety” Matthews definitely had a man crush on Dubya for a long while there. He was practically creaming his jeans over the shots of Commander Codpiece on the deck of the Abraham Lincoln.

  34. 34.

    Zifnab

    January 20, 2007 at 10:02 pm

    You got that right. She used to be real, back in the days when she took on what she called the “right-wing conspiracy.” But now that she’s joined forces with her former enemy, nobody knows who she is anymore. What does she believe in other than polls and focus groups? Does she have any principles at all?

    If John McCain and Hillary Clinton were to run against each other, I honestly would not know who the hell to vote for. Probably Nader.

  35. 35.

    Kyle

    January 20, 2007 at 10:04 pm

    “. . . it can’t be good for America to have the White House controlled by just two families for 25+ years . . .”

    Prince Roy, change “24+” to “24” (math) and you’ve got yourself a point.

    As for the rest of you . . . liberals tend to say this kind of stuff about Clintons, and Clintons tend to win elections. Whether the correlation amounts to cause and effect is beyond my reckoning. But I heard all the same complaints about Bill, and maybe I’ll spend the next 10 years hearing them about Hillary. And, all right, if that’s the price of putting a Democrat in the White House, then so be it.

  36. 36.

    Zifnab

    January 20, 2007 at 10:07 pm

    Honestly, I’m a big fan of both Obama and Edwards. Both have a solid message, both have tried and true Dem credentials, and both came as outsiders which give them a cleaner feeling than “born-and-breed” politicians like Clinton.

    I’m not going to say either are saints, but Edwards in particular has done a good job about standing up against the big dawgs like Walmart and Exxon. And there’s just something appealing about seeing a Black man with Muslim roots take the White House in the face of Katrina and 9/11. I don’t know another candidate running with a history that’s crafted that well to the American story of the past 6 years.

  37. 37.

    ThymeZone

    January 20, 2007 at 10:08 pm

    Matthews worked in the White House. He is definitely starry eyed over power. I’ve seen him drool over many a politician. He’s … embarassing.

  38. 38.

    Prince Roy

    January 20, 2007 at 10:08 pm

    Kyle,

    point taken, but part of that was an unwritten assumption that she might win re-election.

  39. 39.

    ImJohnGalt

    January 20, 2007 at 10:20 pm

    Krista, curse you for introducing me to the Kingdom of Loathing.

  40. 40.

    BadTux

    January 20, 2007 at 10:42 pm

    I supposed Condi is pretty… if you’re a Klingon.

    As for Hillary, I just don’t “get it”. What compelling reason is there to vote for her? She’s a wonk. Wonks are good when our nation is in a good place and moving the right direction. But right now, can anybody in this room say that we as a nation are where we should be and want to be? Is there anybody here who can say that our nation is moving the right direction to make it a better place for our children and grandchildren?

    What we need is a serious national discussion about what kind of nation we want to be and how we are going to get there. Wonks don’t do that. Wonks are totally focused on the here and now. But focusing on the here and now is no good if we don’t also look at the future. What kind of country do we want to be? What do we want our country to be like in ten years, twenty years, thirty years? And what kind of people running for office are going to get us there?

    Because the conservatives, or rather I should say the religious conservatives, do this. They know what they want. They want the United States to be Saudi Arabia, except with the Bible rather than the Koran used as the excuse to keep women barefoot pregnant ignorant slaves, suppress dissent, put darkies in their place, and otherwise turn the country into a living hell-hole. They have a dream. They talk about that dream, in their little konklaves that have taken the place of dancing around burning crosses while wearing white hoods. Liberals and traditional conservatives, it seems to me, have become afraid to dream, afraid that someone is going to make fun of them for dreaming given the nightmares that we are fighting against. But I think people are starved for dreams that are not nightmares. Why else do the Kossites squeal like teenage girls whenever Obama burps out something that even vaguely sounds like he’s looking forward to a better America?

    – Badtux the Future-lookin’ Penguin

  41. 41.

    SeesThroughIt

    January 20, 2007 at 10:46 pm

    Who is this “Hillary Clinton” of whom you speak? I’ve never heard of her.

  42. 42.

    Dreggas

    January 20, 2007 at 10:56 pm

    Why do you care if Condi Rice is pretty or not? I don’t understand that at all

    I never said she had to be pretty but she should at least look relatively decent on television rather than looking like some troll.

    I mean maybe she looks alright through beer goggles.

    (note this is a direct spoof of the “I voted for george bus because he looks like someone I’d have a beer with” looks don’t mean shit really but…ok she was in an acid fight without any acid…sorry she just is not very photogenic.)

  43. 43.

    srv

    January 20, 2007 at 11:13 pm

    President Hillary Clinton

    I’d have never voted for her before, but I really, really, really want to see what the wingnuts do when she starts using her Unitary Executive powers.

  44. 44.

    Rome Again

    January 20, 2007 at 11:38 pm

    Then again, I can’t think of anyone the Dems could nominate who won’t be better than whoever the GOP nominates. Hagel’s the only one on the GOP side who’s even a recognizably decent human being – and, SFAIK, he’s not running.

    This new GOP doesn’t nominate decent human beings, they only nominate crazy schizoids.

  45. 45.

    rachel

    January 20, 2007 at 11:38 pm

    …I really, really, really want to see what the wingnuts do when she starts using her Unitary Executive powers.

    Silly srv, don’t you know Unitary Executive powers are for Republicans?

  46. 46.

    RSA

    January 21, 2007 at 12:02 am

    Then again, I can’t think of anyone the Dems could nominate who won’t be better than whoever the GOP nominates.

    I would almost feel a bit sorry for Jeb if he weren’t a Bush. He might as well start writing his memoirs on his political life right now.

  47. 47.

    Jonathan

    January 21, 2007 at 12:18 am

    Hillary: I’ll hold my nose and vote for her if she gets the nomination. I gotta admit it would be cool to see all the wingnut’s heads explode like in “Mars Attacks” if she became president. It might be worth voting for her just for that. Cue the Slim Whitman music.

    Obama: Untried, untested, unknown. A real wild card. I don’t care for the rock star reception he’s getting among many Democrats. If I wanted a panderer to evangelicals I would vote for a Republican. The dude is playing it close to the vest and it’s difficult to tell just where he stands with respect to the important issues.

  48. 48.

    Rome Again

    January 21, 2007 at 1:14 am

    Sorry, I can’t hold my nose for Hillary, I just can’t.

  49. 49.

    scarshapedstar

    January 21, 2007 at 1:19 am

    Clinton/Cole 2008. You heard it here first.

  50. 50.

    The Farting Housecoat

    January 21, 2007 at 2:31 am

    Brownback/Rice
    Isn’t Liberty nice?

  51. 51.

    Ted

    January 21, 2007 at 2:40 am

    I never said she had to be pretty but she should at least look relatively decent on television rather than looking like some troll.

    Why? Margaret Thatcher did pretty well in politics…

  52. 52.

    The Farting Housecoat

    January 21, 2007 at 2:50 am

    Men who criticize middle-aged woman politicians for their appearances probably had some unpleasant mothering experiences as a child.

  53. 53.

    Rome Again

    January 21, 2007 at 3:22 am

    Brownback/Rice
    Isn’t Liberty Facism nice?

    Fixed!

  54. 54.

    TenguPhule

    January 21, 2007 at 4:48 am

    I welcome our future Empress for Life and stand by to serve loyally as a torturer of Darrells in the Guantanamo Death Camps Happy Fun Time Camps(tm).

  55. 55.

    Helena Montana

    January 21, 2007 at 6:13 am

    clinton/cheney ’08

  56. 56.

    GOP4Me et al

    January 21, 2007 at 6:14 am

    Krista, curse you for introducing me to the Kingdom of Loathing

    You should join our clan. Talk to Krista about it!

  57. 57.

    GOP4Me et al

    January 21, 2007 at 6:22 am

    Darrell/GOP4Me ’08: One’s batshit crazy, one’s too young to be President, both are spoofs on a mission.

  58. 58.

    Rome Again

    January 21, 2007 at 7:03 am

    clinton/cheney ‘08

    Mary Cheney? You can’t possibly be talking about ol’ Dick, he won’t be eligible once he’s been impeached/convicted of war crimes. Besides, he’s ripe for another heart attack, I don’t think he has a chance of getting through another term. The man is very unhealthy.

  59. 59.

    Dave

    January 21, 2007 at 8:06 am

    my take on Hillary running…

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

    Yeah, ain’t gonna happen, even though I like here.

    I’ll just be glad when there isn’t a Clinton or Bush at 1600.

  60. 60.

    Dave

    January 21, 2007 at 8:07 am

    …and since I can’t edit my own posts, I’ll point out that “here” should be “her”

  61. 61.

    Dave

    January 21, 2007 at 8:09 am

    21 US soldiers dead in Iraq today

    …and I for one won’t forget Hillary anointed this mess…

  62. 62.

    jake

    January 21, 2007 at 9:17 am

    I can’t think of anyone the Dems could nominate who won’t be better than whoever the GOP nominates.

    True, but the past two presidential elections have taught us that “better” is a highly subjective term.

    As for Bush II being attractive, put it this way: If I were in a bar and I saw him across the room I’d know it was time to leave. He looks like the creep who is OK looking from a distance but when he gets close you realize there’s something “off” about his eyes. His smile doesn’t synch up with the rest of his face. Everything about him spells R-U-N, but by the time he’s that close he’s right in your face and you’re sending “A little help here?” signals to your friends while you try to escape without turning your back on him.

  63. 63.

    The Farting Housecoat

    January 21, 2007 at 9:36 am

    Will somebody please inform Jim Rome Again that the word he is struggling with here is not spelled “facism?”

    And after you do, give him a cookie. He seems sensitive and might need the comfort.

  64. 64.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 10:00 am

    Sorry, I can’t hold my nose for Hillary, I just can’t.

    Me too (either?) (neither?).

    The only way I can vote for her is in the general election, against a Republican I can’t stand, such as McCain, or Brownback, or …. every GOP wannabee I’ve seen so far, actually.

    But I’m hoping that Obama beats her in the primaries. And I think he can.

  65. 65.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 10:07 am

    Will somebody please inform Jim Rome Again that the word he is struggling with here is not spelled “facism?”

    Ah, the spelling lame, a tried and proven tactic of Usenet losers …. proven to be lame, that is.

    The lame might work better if you at least had the gender of your target right.

    It’s my duty to inform you that the gender lame always beats the spelling lame.

    Point to me.

  66. 66.

    Paddy O'Shea

    January 21, 2007 at 10:09 am

    Dave – so if the elections in 2008 turn out to be a race between Hillary Clinton and let’s say Newt Gingrich (I personally do not think McCain or Giuliani will make it past the primaries for the obvious reasons), you will abet the right by not voting for the Democratic candidate?

  67. 67.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 10:19 am

    Dave – so if the elections in 2008 turn out to be a race between Hillary Clinton and let’s say Newt Gingrich (I personally do not think McCain or Giuliani will make it past the primaries for the obvious reasons), you will abet the right by not voting for the Democratic candidate?

    Newt? Good grief. I’d vote for my neighbor’s dog before I’d vote for Newt. He’s not just a toxic GOP ideologue, a true troglodyte, he’s the most self-interested delusional jerk in politics today, maybe behind Joe Lieberman.

    Newt says he wants to help America. Okay, tell him to go live in Panama. That would help.

  68. 68.

    Rome Again

    January 21, 2007 at 10:21 am

    Will somebody please inform Jim Rome Again that the word he is struggling with here is not spelled “facism?”

    Jim? Jim who? Ain’t no Jim on this bus.

    Don’t like my spelling? Sue me!

  69. 69.

    Rome Again

    January 21, 2007 at 10:25 am

    Speaking of Panama, maybe I’m incorrect, but I was on a mundane astrology site last night where they had the birthtime/place listed and it stated McKean was born in Panama? Was he born to diplomats out of the country? If not, how can he qualify to be President?

  70. 70.

    Rome Again

    January 21, 2007 at 10:27 am

    Nevermind, I should have just googled, McCain (sorry I’m spelling impaired today) was born in Panama to American parents. Sorry!

  71. 71.

    Paddy O'Shea

    January 21, 2007 at 10:28 am

    The Blues Brothers knew how to deal with fascists …

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upzl0Dmv77U

  72. 72.

    Rome Again

    January 21, 2007 at 10:28 am

    It’s my duty to inform you that the gender lame always beats the spelling lame.

    Yes it duz TZ, yes it duz!

    ::winks::

  73. 73.

    jake

    January 21, 2007 at 10:30 am

    Newt says he wants to help America. Okay, tell him to go live in Panama.

    Panama hater!

    I can’t see Newt running. His little wife-swapping problem makes him an easy target for negative campaigns.

  74. 74.

    Paddy O'Shea

    January 21, 2007 at 10:32 am

    Newt’s wife-swapping problem happened before he was saved by Jesus.

  75. 75.

    Rome Again

    January 21, 2007 at 10:33 am

    Dave – so if the elections in 2008 turn out to be a race between Hillary Clinton and let’s say Newt Gingrich (I personally do not think McCain or Giuliani will make it past the primaries for the obvious reasons), you will abet the right by not voting for the Democratic candidate?

    I’m not Dave, but I’ll take a shot at it. If it looks like the scenario you are setting up is about to happen, I’ll do my part. I’m not going to let them get someone like Newt or Giuliani in (Romney is the one I’m concerned about, I think he’s the new evangelist’s dream candidate). I guess I’ll have to hold my nose at that point, but I’m hoping I don’t have to.

  76. 76.

    Rome Again

    January 21, 2007 at 10:35 am

    Hey, if Cain was the evil son in Genesis who slew Abel, and Mc is a bastardized form of Mac which means so, does that mean “Son of Cain”? Hmmmmm!

  77. 77.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 10:36 am

    Newt’s wife-swapping problem happened before he was saved by Jesus.

    Once again, Jesus, my yard man, is out there making a difference. I think he’s the most underrated fellow in America today.

  78. 78.

    Rome Again

    January 21, 2007 at 10:37 am

    which means son

    Gosh, I should really get some sleep, huh?

  79. 79.

    Rome Again

    January 21, 2007 at 10:41 am

    Once again, Jesus, my yard man, is out there making a difference. I think he’s the most underrated fellow in America today.

    He’s a busy guy, TZ.

    Paddy, it shouldn’t matter if he was saved after the affair or not, a president is supposed to lead a secular nation (I’m defining secular here as a nation with many non-believers), which means that is not an acceptable excuse to those who aren’t saved by TZ’s yard man.

  80. 80.

    Paddy O'Shea

    January 21, 2007 at 10:46 am

    Rome Again – No, it shouldn’t matter. But remember, Bush was a drunk until he was 40. And his (supposed) victory over alcoholism through his acceptance of Jesus was widely hailed in fundamentalist circles as being something of a fine and wonderful thing.

  81. 81.

    AkaDad

    January 21, 2007 at 10:47 am

    And there’s just something appealing about seeing a Black man with Muslim roots take the White House

    Actually, Barak is a Christian not a Muslim.

  82. 82.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 10:49 am

    Son of Cain?

    I knew it … he’s the Antichrist.

    Or, something.

  83. 83.

    Rome Again

    January 21, 2007 at 10:52 am

    That would explain the scar on his head (the head wound that had healed in Revelation?) Hmmmmm, making more sense all the time.

    [disclaimer, I’m not a Christian, I just study their text]

  84. 84.

    Rome Again

    January 21, 2007 at 10:54 am

    Rome Again – No, it shouldn’t matter. But remember, Bush was a drunk until he was 40. And his (supposed) victory over alcoholism through his acceptance of Jesus was widely hailed in fundamentalist circles as being something of a fine and wonderful thing.

    Widely hailed in fundamentalist circles, but not anywhere else. And besides, look what THAT got us, we have precedent to protest that delusion this time, don’t we?

  85. 85.

    RSA

    January 21, 2007 at 10:55 am

    (Romney is the one I’m concerned about, I think he’s the new evangelist’s dream candidate)

    I wonder about that. There have been recent polls in which over half of evangelical Christians say they wouldn’t consider voting for a Mormon for President. Think they’ll reconsider their religious biases or perhaps simply hold their noses? From my perspective, I agree that Romney looks like a 95% perfect evangelical candidate, but I’m not on the inside; for some reason, that remaining 5% can be a deal-breaker for true believers, I think.

  86. 86.

    Rome Again

    January 21, 2007 at 10:59 am

    Well, they can vote for “Son of Cain” or the morman demon, either way they’re screwed. Guess they better get Giuliani or Brownback or someone else; although so far is seems they have a preference for demons (my money is on “Son of Cain”; it would fit with the book of Isaiah and Revelation).

  87. 87.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 11:00 am

    Bush was a drunk until he was 40. And his (supposed) victory over alcoholism through his acceptance of Jesus was widely hailed in fundamentalist circles as being something of a fine and wonderful thing.

    Yes, nothing inspires like knowing that unflinching belief in Pagan myth and superstition is all that stands between the President of the United States, and delirium tremens.

  88. 88.

    Paddy O'Shea

    January 21, 2007 at 11:01 am

    Bush’s fundamentalist acclaim helped to make him president. And I suspect that the revulsion many on the Xtian right feel for McCain and Giuliani will make Gingrich a desireable commodity in the GOP primaries. I think he will win his party’s nomination easily.

    Obviously Gingrich will make a lousy candidate in the general election and will be easy to beat, right?

    But wait, isn’t that what people said about Bush?

  89. 89.

    Rome Again

    January 21, 2007 at 11:06 am

    But wait, isn’t that what people said about Bush?

    You can’t just anything these people do, they’re not right in the head.

  90. 90.

    Rome Again

    January 21, 2007 at 11:08 am

    Yes, nothing inspires like knowing that unflinching belief in Pagan myth and superstition is all that stands between the President of the United States, and delirium tremens.

    So true, sad isn’t it?

  91. 91.

    Jimmy Mack

    January 21, 2007 at 11:10 am

    Hillary has zero chance in a general election. There’s just too many people who hate her and would never vote for her. Me, for example. I might vote for Biden or Edwards if the alternative is Romney or Brownback, but there’s no way I could vote for Hillary. There’s just too much baggage there, especially with health care.

    Just my two cents.

  92. 92.

    Paddy O'Shea

    January 21, 2007 at 11:15 am

    Jimmy Mack – Your stance here kind of reminds me of those folks in 2000 who liked to say that there was no difference between Gore and Bush. A statement that seems rather quaint, now, right?

    Yesterday’s U.S. death toll in Iraq is now at 24.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070121/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraw

  93. 93.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 11:17 am

    There’s just too much baggage there, especially with health care.

    Good for you. Nothing turns us off to a candidate like knowing that he or she is passionate about solving the greatest single problem facing the economy, families, employers, and the health of the country’s children, elderly, and ill. I mean, who wants a person like that?

    Mind you, I press this sharp stick up your keester as one who is no particular fan of Hillary Clinton at all.

    But if you asked me for one reason to vote for her, health care would be it. If she promises to push this issue as president, it would go a long way toward persuading me to vote for her.

    The current employer-based, overpriced, undemocratic, cruelly unfair health care system is not sustainable, and I blame Republicans for putting us in this situation. And keeping us there, for their own crass reasons.

  94. 94.

    Punchy

    January 21, 2007 at 11:19 am

    Big OT…but what the hell…

    Citizen Cole’s FAVORITE blogger was JUST ON CNN–Dan Riehl. Can you believe this? That assclown gets his mug on Communist Newz Network!

    And it gets worse–HE was actually the reasonable and articulate one, paired with some lefty named Mike Stark (?). Quite an embarrassing display, I thought. For some reason, I pictured Riehl to be some 20+ age blogger with acne and porn mags. He looks like he’s pushing 50. I guess some people do get mas stupido with age.

  95. 95.

    Rome Again

    January 21, 2007 at 11:19 am

    Jimmy Mack, would you vote for McCain?

  96. 96.

    Rome Again

    January 21, 2007 at 11:26 am

    The current employer-based, overpriced, undemocratic, cruelly unfair health care system is not sustainable, and I blame Republicans for putting us in this situation. And keeping us there, for their own crass reasons.

    TZ, did you see the new proposal Bush wants to talk about on the SOTU regarding healthcare? I can’t exactly explain it, it’s sort of a tax, but not a tax… I don’t have a link, sorry.

  97. 97.

    Jonathan

    January 21, 2007 at 11:27 am

    Romney is a Mormon and lots of evangelicals think Mormons aren’t even Christians. I’d be somewhat surprised if Mitt got the GOP nod.

    McCain is not trusted by the religious right, they don’t forget his positions back in 2000 regarding them and his fairly recent conversion to fundamentalist supporter is suspect. Johnny is also on his second marriage to a younger and richer wife.

    Giuliani has a lot of baggage to overcome to get the GOP nod. Here’s one piece. Another piece is his moving his mistress into the governor’s mansion. I’ve also heard rumors that his father was a mob loan shark enforcer.

  98. 98.

    Jonathan

    January 21, 2007 at 11:33 am

    Hillary’s health care proposal was the worst of both worlds and kept the big insurers in the loop, it would have been an expensive boondoggle if ever implemented. I didn’t like Hillarycare but it wasn’t because it was socialized medicine.

  99. 99.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 11:34 am

    TZ, did you see the new proposal Bush wants to talk about on the SOTU regarding healthcare?

    I think I heard something this morning on ABC This Week with George Stephanopopopopolis. Ahem.

    What I think I heard is that they want to tax the premiums paid for health insurance and use this revenue to provide revenue for insuring people who currently don’t have coverage. It’s a regressive tax scheme, if that’s what they want to do. Once again, the middle class will take it in the shorts to put money in corporate pockets. (I think health premiums now are deducted pre-tax).

    However … I base this tantrum on something I just barely heard on tv while I was herding a bunch of ungrateful cats. So I might have missed something.

  100. 100.

    Rome Again

    January 21, 2007 at 11:44 am

    What I think I heard is that they want to tax the premiums paid for health insurance and use this revenue to provide revenue for insuring people who currently don’t have coverage. It’s a regressive tax scheme, if that’s what they want to do. Once again, the middle class will take it in the shorts to put money in corporate pockets. (I think health premiums now are deducted pre-tax).

    yeah, that’s the gist of what I read. You covered all the bases in that on paragraph.

  101. 101.

    Punchy

    January 21, 2007 at 12:49 pm

    Apparently it is big news that Hillary Clinton has announced she is running

    A little bit of exercise is good for her. Glad to see she took up some jogging.

  102. 102.

    Pb

    January 21, 2007 at 1:08 pm

    Punchy,

    And it gets worse—HE was actually the reasonable and articulate one, paired with some lefty named Mike Stark

    I’m sorry to hear that–I like Mike, and Riehl’s been lying about him for some time. Is there a clip of it up anywhere yet?

  103. 103.

    Pb

    January 21, 2007 at 1:09 pm

    they want to tax the premiums paid for health insurance

    Oh, those tax-and-spend Republicans, always stealing other people’s money for their regressive ponzi schemes and their wars…

  104. 104.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 1:45 pm

    Localized snow showers can be expected over far north and northeast portions of the Phoenix Metro area through 1230 PM at elevations as low as 2000 feet. This would include Cave Creek…Carefree…and far north Scottsdale. However…no accumulation is expected below 3000 feet.

    Whooo-eee. I grew up here and have lived here about 2/3 of my adult life. I’ve seen snow on the ground in the yard maybe five times. Could today be number six?

  105. 105.

    jake

    January 21, 2007 at 1:48 pm

    Here’s an article on the President’s plan for health care insurance.

    The article seems to paint this as something the Democrats will go for since they’re gung ho for health care reform. Perhaps the WH thinks they’ve got something they can hold up to prove the Democrats are hypocrites. Sure guys, just like you “proved” Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. Just like you proved the Democratic Party is the abode of terrorist coddling sex maniacs.

    Fixing health care will take a bit more than changing the tax code. Insurance providers will have to change the way they do business (either voluntarily or because they are forced to by law). No more denying coverage based on pre-existing conditions. No more dropping people when they have the gall to get sick or injured. If I were entirely cynical I’d say this is Bush’s attempt to try to fix (or at least say he’ll try to fix) a major problem without annoying a major industry.

    Maybe, after six years of SOP the pressures of being so unpopular will force Bush to squeeze out a diamond instead of another big stinking turd. Maybe Cheney will dance the lead in Swan Lake.

    We’ll see.

  106. 106.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 1:52 pm

    Insurance providers will have to change the way they do business

    Very optimistic. You pretty much have to start with single payer and work backward from there to get a model that works and is sustainable. Therefore, BigHMO as know it today has to go away. It’s too bound to the problem and can’t be part of a solution. And, it will fight reform with aggressive and deeply funded opposition, tooth and nail, every step of the way. The path to a solution can’t run through BigHMO. Any more than the path to energy independence can run through BigOIL.

  107. 107.

    Jimmy Mack

    January 21, 2007 at 2:07 pm

    Jimmy Mack, would you vote for McCain?

    Yeah, I would. I don’t agree with him everywhere, but he’s got a lot more guts than most politicians and he’s a lot more likely to tell is like it is (or at least how he sees it). I’d be voting more for the man than the positions — he’s kind of too much of a crusader for me. Anyone who thinks political speech needs to be regulated and that the government needs to get involved in ruling about steroids in baseball, that person is not really a conservative. But I’d still probably vote for him.

  108. 108.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 2:17 pm

    but he’s got a lot more guts than most politicians

    Okay, that conlcudes our spoof testing for today.

    McCain is a lying, self-interested weasel, a whore, a guy who will literally say anything, and by that I mean anything, to advance his political interests.

    I find it embarassing to be in Arizona and be represented by two of the worst senators, the most god-awful examples of what politicians can turn into …. and McCain is, in more ways than one, the senior in this sorry pair.

    He’s a walking, talking course in what politics can turn people into. He’s a cautionary tale.

  109. 109.

    Paddy O'Shea

    January 21, 2007 at 2:31 pm

    He’s also older than shit. The last thing this country needs now is some tired old hack with Bush butt on his lips.

  110. 110.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 2:42 pm

    He’s also older than shit.

    By that, of course, you mean much much older than I am.

    Heh.

    Heh heh.

    Heh?

  111. 111.

    Kirk Spencer

    January 21, 2007 at 3:03 pm

    I believe the Kansas Syndrome will come to play, with the result being the GOP candidate will be watching someone else take the oath in 2009.

    Kansas Syndrome is my name for it, though it’s played out in several other places – and the Democratic party’s gone through it a time or two as well. It happens when the people who lose decide the reason they lost was they weren’t true to their philosophy. As a result they kick out all the “in name only’s”, and they select the candidate who is “truest of the true.” A large number of the people kicked out vote the other side – vengeance, or an inability to tolerate that much extremism, or both – and surprise, the true party loses again. Sometimes it takes once to break this, and sometimes (like some areas of California) the process can continue for decades.

    I truly doubt the winner of the GOP side will be McCain, Romney or Giulianni. Gingrich is possible, as is Brownback. My personal suspicion is that Huckabee will get the nod. The thing is, in the process of “cleaning their party” they’ll push the votes to the other side. I expect the next president to be Democratic not because of how good he or she is, but in rejection of the GOP choice.

    FWIW, I don’t think Clinton will win the nomination. She’ll do well, but not well enough.

  112. 112.

    OCSteve

    January 21, 2007 at 4:18 pm

    Heh?

    OK – Heh :)

  113. 113.

    CaseyL

    January 21, 2007 at 4:20 pm

    Kirk, how do you see the early Democratic primaries playing out?

    My own take is that the so-far Big Three – Obama, Clinton, Edwards – are each in for the long haul, and won’t drop out even if they don’t do well in the early going. Clinton, because she has the money and the stubbornness to overcome any less-than-stellar early results; Edwards because he’s on a crusade; and Obama because he is so far riding a high tide of popularity/novelty. (My prognostication has nothing to do with my personal feelings for those candidates; just what I perceive to be their individual commitment to running.)

    I think the top tier candidates will eat up all the money and attention, and therefore votes, and that everyone else – Kerry, Vilsack, Dodd – will have to do something amazing in order to last past the first round.

    I have no idea whether Richardson will be a first- or second-tier candidate. He has an outstanding resume and a built-in appeal to Hispanic/Latino voters, but lacks national name recognition, doesn’t seem to have done NM Democratic candidates any good in the last election, and might have personal issues. It’s a shame, because he really, really does have excellent qualifications.

    As for my feelings: I like Richardson for what he’s accomplished, and Edwards for what he says he wants to accomplish. Obama’s got my attention, but I’m waiting to see what his ideas and/or vision is. Clinton doesn’t excite me at all, but I don’t hate her: I won’t vote for her in a primary, but will if she’s the nominee. None of the others are on my radar at all.

  114. 114.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 4:37 pm

    OK – Heh

    Speaking of me being over the hill ….

    Have we done a membership drive lately?

    Lefties, and wannabee lefties …. My email address can be divined at my url today. Drop me a line if you are interested in the BJ Lefty Mailing List.

    See the first text on the first “album” and follow the easy instructions.

    Lefties and lefty admirers …. world domination is within our grasp. Unite, you have nothing to lose but your reputations.

  115. 115.

    Kirk Spencer

    January 21, 2007 at 4:50 pm

    CaseyL,

    First – Richardson will stay second-tier. He’s carrying a couple of nasty pieces of baggage that will prevent him from getting the nod. You’ll see a lot of press about his womanizing. You may or may not read of his more-than-once blowing through stopsigns and telling the officer “You can’t arrest me, I’m the governor.” And so on and so forth… basically, a habit of acting like a number of Republicans who recently lost office. Added to this is a reminder – this was the man in charge of the DoE when all the spy stuff about the Chinese getting stuff from the DoE happened.

    I, like you, see this running all the way before a final candidate is selected. Most of the present pack can’t stay that long without making sacrifices I don’t think they’re prepared to make.

    I have a short list of probables for the long haul. Clinton and Edwards are there. Obama is doubtful – while charismatic as all get out, he’s got no steak to go with the sizzle. Nor does he have a ton of money to keep the sizzle going despite that lack. He’s failed to commit to anything (for or against) and that slipperiness is going to work against him in the long run. Clark is a dark horse on my list – he’s been doing a lot of smart things but has had some very bad timing issues. (Timing by others who have upstaged him.) However, none of the other frontrunners seem to have grabbed the “New Progressive” mantle that Dean created, and I think Clark’s got the opportunity. So I see the end being Clinton v Edwards with at most one spoiler, more likely Clark than Obama.

    All that goes out the window if the elephant in the room speaks up. I’m speaking of Gore. I know some paper claimed Gore’d said he’s not running, but further reading shows they’re referencing his statements of six months ago, when he had a lot of “for now” clauses. The thing is, Gore can wait till almost Thanksgiving of this year to announce and still be a major candidate. Which saves him almost 10 months of expenses the current crowd has to spend. Gore’s “global warming” enthusiasm gives him the strong link to the new progressives, he’s discovered that being human in public is a GOOD thing (no longer a woodenhead in public), and there are a LOT of democrats who believe he should have been the president for the past couple of terms and “Justice is GOOD.”

    If Gore enters I give him the edge. And his main competitor will be whichever of the other three (Clinton, Edwards, and Osama/Clark) successfully copes with no longer being the one representing that part of the party.

    And it still goes to the end.

  116. 116.

    OCSteve

    January 21, 2007 at 4:51 pm

    Unite, you have nothing to lose but your reputations.

    Dude. You’re killing me.

  117. 117.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 4:53 pm

    You’re killing me.

    Join up, the list is a good group.

    Everything we send you will arrive in a plain, brown wrapper.

  118. 118.

    jake

    January 21, 2007 at 5:21 pm

    And, it will fight reform with aggressive and deeply funded opposition, tooth and nail, every step of the way.

    Reform a major industry? While Bush is in office? It is to laugh. As I said, that’s what would need to happen to give a solution to our health insurance problem any teeth. Ergo my money is on his “solution,” being an equal mixture of whitewash and bullshit. The Democrats will point out all of the holes in his “plan” and he’ll whinge: “See? I tried to help and the mean ol’ democrat party wouldn’t let me.” I’ll even go so far as to say any modification of the tax code wouldn’t end with changes designed to make health insurance more widely available.

    How many days until 2009?

  119. 119.

    CaseyL

    January 21, 2007 at 5:28 pm

    Thanks, Kirk.

    I was aware of the rumors about Richardson’s private life, but have tried not to pay too much attention to them. Unfortunately, the rest of the country – and esp, the MSM – has no such compunction.

    The Chinese stuff – I’m not sure how much impact that would have, since the charges never went anywhere, and seem to have been baseless; just more GOP smears against anyone in the Clinton Administration.

    The you-can’t-arrest-me attitude troubles me more, esp. over an actual safety issue rather than just lead-footedness (being a chronic lead-foot myself!) though it’s not a make or break for me. I’d need to know more; like, does he do that all the time? Does he retaliate against troopers who ticket him anyway? Etc.

  120. 120.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 5:39 pm

    this was the man in charge of the DoE when all the spy stuff about the Chinese getting stuff from the DoE happened.

    Um, what was the outcome? Wasn’t it “never mind” after putting the “Chinese” (actually, American) guy through several layers of hell for the fun of it?

    From Amazon’s review of this book about the case:

    the case of Wen Ho Lee, the Taiwanese-American scientist jailed for almost a year in 1999 and 2000 on charges of spying for China before being released with the judge’s apology.

  121. 121.

    OCSteve

    January 21, 2007 at 5:40 pm

    Everything we send you will arrive in a plain, brown wrapper.

    Oh man. My mailman seems to have an issue with those. They tend to just ‘fall off’. He’s looking for porn but that would really shock him :)

  122. 122.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 6:23 pm

    He’s looking for porn but that would really shock him

    An apparently righty mailman ….. looking for porn.

    Hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm.

    Tsk. Another American family, ruined by the gay/pervert agenda?

  123. 123.

    The Farting Housecoat

    January 21, 2007 at 7:02 pm

    Kirk Spencer: There are a lot of people in denial here about Sam Brownback’s candidacy. Personally I found his announcement to be a huge relief. Up until that moment it appeared that nobody except democrat were running for the GOP nomination. That has now changed.

    Gingrich has yet to announce. But I could personally get behind his candidacy as well.

  124. 124.

    Richard 23

    January 21, 2007 at 7:10 pm

    Gingrich has yet to announce. But I could personally get behind his candidacy as well.

    So you like his ass?

  125. 125.

    Krista

    January 21, 2007 at 7:12 pm

    Lefties and lefty admirers …. world domination is within our grasp. Unite, you have nothing to lose but your reputations.

    Not to mention much of your available inbox space during some of our more interesting discussions…

  126. 126.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 7:13 pm

    I couldn’t ask for anything better than for the GOP to nominate the insane and obnoxious Gingrich. We’d set the stage for a Dem hegemony for the next 30 years.

    You’d be better off rooting for Bill O’Reilly to win the GOP nod.

  127. 127.

    The Other Steve

    January 21, 2007 at 7:21 pm

    It looks like i was wrong about Huckabee. He’s got real skeletons in his closet, and there’s no way he’s going to run.

    This is a lovely story…

    This guy Wayne Dumond was accused of raping a 17 year old cousin of Bill Clinton’s back when he was Governor.

    So anyway, back in the 1990s… The Right wing was all in a tizzy about how unfairly this guy had been treated. He was FRAMED! SETUP! A Good Christian soul who had been unfairly trampled by the “Clinton Machine!”. Damn that Bill Clinton!

    Apparently Bill had refused the recommendation of the parole board to let him go, and so too did Jim Guy Tucker. In fact there was some accusations of politics played pushing this guys release back further and further.

    Anyway, along comes 1996 and Jim Guy Tucker is convicted in Whitewater… Mike Huckabee becomes Governor in July of that year. In September of 1996 he says he’s going to commute Dumonds sentence to time served. The parole board later meets and at the urging of Huckabee’s aides votes to parole him. January 1997, the guy’s out of jail.

    Part of the guys release terms was to leave the state. He moved to Missouri where he married a woman who had been part of a church group convinced of his innocence(not to mention how evil Bill Clinton was).

    By 2001 he was charged with the murder of Sue Shields, and was a target in an investigation into the murder of Sara Andrasek… both of Missouri.

    Here’s where it gets even more interesting. In all those 1990 screeds against Clinton by the Republicans, they never mentioned that Dumond had a history. In 1972 arrested for the beating death of a man in Oklahoma and in 1973 arrested for the molestation of a teen aged girl in Oregon.

    Anyway, Dumond died in prison back in 2005.

    Murray Waas article reprinted in Arkansas Times.

    Wow

  128. 128.

    Jimmy Mack

    January 21, 2007 at 7:25 pm

    Added to this is a reminder – this was the man in charge of the DoE when all the spy stuff about the Chinese getting stuff from the DoE happened.

    I think that’s going to hurt him a lot. Really, they’re better off without him in the race, because his presence serves as a reminder of the many Clinton-era security breaches. Hate to being 911 into it, but if the Clintons had run things differently, perhaps that could have been avoided. I know, I know…

  129. 129.

    The Farting Housecoat

    January 21, 2007 at 7:32 pm

    Richard 23: It must be odd living in your head. But out of a morbid curiosity, what is it about Newt Gingrich’s ass that makes you think about sex?

  130. 130.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 7:33 pm

    I think that’s going to hurt him a lot. Really, they’re better off without him in the race, because his presence serves as a reminder of the many Clinton-era security breaches. Hate to being 911 into it, but if the Clintons had run things differently, perhaps that could have been avoided. I know, I know…

    So, you came here to do your lame spoofapalooza because …. your mother lives here? Your car broke down? TimF is your brother-in-law? You are going alphabetically through the blogrolls and are only up to the B’s?

  131. 131.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 7:34 pm

    What is it about Gingrich that makes you think the world has forgotten what a fat crazy fuck he is?

  132. 132.

    Jimmy Mack

    January 21, 2007 at 7:36 pm

    So, you came here to do your lame spoofapalooza because …. your mother lives here? Your car broke down? TimF is your brother-in-law?

    What is it with you? You have to call everyone you disagree with a loser and a spoof? I’ll admit the 911 was a low blow — I doubt either president could have prevented it.

  133. 133.

    The Farting Housecoat

    January 21, 2007 at 7:36 pm

    ThymeZone: You seem offended about people bringing up the age issue, but there you are talking about Newt’s weight problem.

    Your indignation seems limited to your own condition.

  134. 134.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 7:39 pm

    You have to call everyone you disagree with a loser and a spoof?

    No, just the obvious losers and spoofs, really. Maybe you should try upgrading your act and rolling it out under a different name? I don’t think you are fooling anybody here.

    Aren’t you the guy who called McCain a guy with “guts?” McCain? The big hero who sat like a deer in the headlights in Carolina in 2000 while the drunken little rich guy gave him a wedgie?

    Give me a fucking break.

  135. 135.

    Jimmy Mack

    January 21, 2007 at 7:40 pm

    Hey, did you guys see the article about if Jeb were president instead of George?
    Link

    It’s interesting…GWB could be more competent, it’s true.

  136. 136.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 7:40 pm

    You seem offended about people bringing up the age issue

    I do? I bring it up myself and laugh at it all the time, you stupid idiot. What are you talking about?

  137. 137.

    Jimmy Mack

    January 21, 2007 at 7:41 pm

    The big hero who sat like a deer in the headlights in Carolina in 2000 while the drunken little rich guy gave him a wedgie?

    Just to humor you…what are you talking about here? What’s the story there?

  138. 138.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 7:43 pm

    GWB could be more competent, it’s true.

    Duh. That’s like saying Jeffrey Dahmer could have had a better diet.

    Lamest spoof act in town today, you are.

  139. 139.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 7:44 pm

    what are you talking about here

    The question is only allowed if you aren’t the only person here who doesn’t know the answer.

  140. 140.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 7:49 pm

    did you guys see

    The lame-ass spoof tries talking all chummy to “you guys” so as to dress up his rotten material and make it look genuine.

    Might work, if the material were any good. But, as you see ….

  141. 141.

    Jonathan

    January 21, 2007 at 8:01 pm

    Here is a really good rant about why Hillary is unelectable, with links to some fairly juicy stuff.

    Now, I’m not saying Hillary has been treated fairly, or that she’s one tenth the hellion she’s made out to be. I’m not siding with the contemptible nutjobs who long ago convinced themselves that she’s a Chinese communist agent who had a tawdry affair with Vince Foster and then killed him using the lead pipe on the grassy knoll. These same bastards happily call anti-war veterans “cowardly” for merely having a lick of goddam experience and sense, not to mention the occasional three limbs blown off, and they now try to imply Obama might have been on the wrong side of 9-11. They’d frame Bill Clinton for the Fatty Arbuckle case if they could. In their minds, Hillary is part Black Panther, part castrating mama figure, Tanya from the SLA in a Brooks Brothers catsuit, an evil so frightening that no lie can be greater.

    It must suck to be Hillary sometimes. I get that.

    But here’s what sucks worse: the Iraq war is one of the deadliest, stupidest, and most criminal foreign policy mistakes of our lifetimes. (Just making that list is a major accomplishment, btw, considering Guatemala, East Timor, Cambodia, etc.) And Hillary, despite her recent weaseling — sorry, triangulation is the term of art — vigorously supported Bush’s Iraq adventure from the start.

    In the wake of 9-11, it wasn’t just George W. Bush telling the world “every nation has to be either with us or against us.” It was Hillary, as you can hear for yourself.

    In October 2002, during the debate about giving Bush authorization to invade Iraq, it wasn’t just Dick Cheney telling the world in that Saddam Hussein had links to Al-Qaeda. It was Hillary, from the floor of Congress.

    And in February 2005, it wasn’t just John McCain claiming that democracy was taking root in Iraq, and that the insurgency was in its last throes. It was Hillary, standing right at John McCain’s side.

    Yeah. So President Hillary would be soooooo much better about Iraq. Clap louder, everybody. Make it come true.

    If this were a just world, not one person who authorized Bush to invade Iraq would ever be re-elected to anything, and the prime engineers of this mess would be going to jail instead of Fox News desks. And if this were a just world, Hillary would be held in almost as much contempt by people opposed to this war as Bush, Cheney, and the rest of Team Chimpy

    More:

  142. 142.

    Jonathan

    January 21, 2007 at 8:07 pm

    Anatomy of a smear campaign.

    In South Carolina, Bush Republicans were facing an opponent who was popular for his straight talk and Vietnam war record. They knew that if McCain won in South Carolina, he would likely win the nomination. With few substantive differences between Bush and McCain, the campaign was bound to turn personal. The situation was ripe for a smear.

    It didn’t take much research to turn up a seemingly innocuous fact about the McCains: John and his wife, Cindy, have an adopted daughter named Bridget. Cindy found Bridget at Mother Theresa’s orphanage in Bangladesh, brought her to the United States for medical treatment, and the family ultimately adopted her. Bridget has dark skin.

    Anonymous opponents used “push polling” to suggest that McCain’s Bangladeshi born daughter was his own, illegitimate black child. In push polling, a voter gets a call, ostensibly from a polling company, asking which candidate the voter supports. In this case, if the “pollster” determined that the person was a McCain supporter, he made statements designed to create doubt about the senator.

    Thus, the “pollsters” asked McCain supporters if they would be more or less likely to vote for McCain if they knew he had fathered an illegitimate child who was black. In the conservative, race-conscious South, that’s not a minor charge. We had no idea who made the phone calls, who paid for them, or how many calls were made. Effective and anonymous: the perfect smear campaign.

    Some aspects of this smear were hardly so subtle. Bob Jones University professor Richard Hand sent an e-mail to “fellow South Carolinians” stating that McCain had “chosen to sire children without marriage.” It didn’t take long for mainstream media to carry the charge. CNN interviewed Hand and put him on the spot: “Professor, you say that this man had children out of wedlock. He did not have children out of wedlock.” Hand replied, “Wait a minute, that’s a universal negative. Can you prove that there aren’t any?”

  143. 143.

    Jimmy Mack

    January 21, 2007 at 8:11 pm

    Bob Jones University professor Richard Hand sent an e-mail to “fellow South Carolinians” stating that McCain had “chosen to sire children without marriage.”

    Can it be proven that that guy, Richard Hand, started that rumor? Has anything happened to him? That’s nasty, scummy tactics.

  144. 144.

    Jonathan

    January 21, 2007 at 8:15 pm

    That’s like saying Jeffrey Dahmer could have had a better diet.

    Ever heard of the term “long pig”?

  145. 145.

    Jimmy Mack

    January 21, 2007 at 8:16 pm

    And, okay, humor me: what should McCain have done, in your opinion? Obviously, he shouldn’t have let that stand, but what would have been a good way to fight back? Do you think they’ll hit him with this stuff again? I could see Romney or Brownback doing it. I don’t think Giulani would.

  146. 146.

    Jonathan

    January 21, 2007 at 8:19 pm

    Can it be proven that that guy, Richard Hand, started that rumor? Has anything happened to him? That’s nasty, scummy tactics.

    CNN interviewed Hand and he didn’t deny it.

    Nasty, scummy tactics indeed and yet today we have this.

    Do you really want to vote for someone who will embrace the man who treated him like Bush treated McCain?

  147. 147.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 8:26 pm

    Can it be proven that that guy, Richard Hand, started that rumor?

    Anonymous opponents used “push polling”

    That’s nasty, scummy tactics.

    Yawn. It’s 2007. Wake up and smell the fucking coffee.

    McCain basically rolled over and played dead to the Bush onslaught. McCain has now rolled over to the GOP right wing. He hugs the piece of crap that fucked him over in 2000, and makes a deal with him to back his fucked up war in return for the keys to the machine. He tried to be the friend of Charles Keating, a guy who stole money from little old ladies to build himself a financial empire.

    John McCain is a piece of shit.

    “Do you know why Chelsea Clinton is so ugly? Because Janet Reno is her father.” — John McCain

    BTW, have you seen Chelsea Clinton lately? If there is a smarter, more poised, better spoken, more beautiful young woman out there in celebrity land, I haven’t seen her. On the other hand, McCain looks like a badly carved pumpkin. so there you are.

    McCain, a guy with “guts?” Yeah, anybody as low and as lacking in integrity as he is has a lot of guts trying to run for president … I’ll give him that.

  148. 148.

    Jonathan

    January 21, 2007 at 8:27 pm

    Do you think they’ll hit him with this stuff again? I could see Romney or Brownback doing it. I don’t think Giulani would.

    Giuliani has some baggage.

    In 2000, the second Mrs. Giuliani, newscaster Donna Hanover, had to obtain a court order to stop him from bringing girlfriend Judith Nathan to Gracie Mansion, where she and Rudy’s children were still living. Rudy struck back by announcing his separation to the press before telling his wife. Donna had a press conference outside the mansion in which she accused the mayor of also cheating on her with his former press secretary, Christyne Lategano, though that wasn’t news to any of the reporters in attendance. Rudy had the last word. The wife and kids were eventually booted out of said mansion, and Judy Nathan became his third wife.

    Giuliani is not a nice man, he would have no problem swift boating McCain or anyone else.

  149. 149.

    Rome Again

    January 21, 2007 at 8:32 pm

    While I was asleep, a lot of very interesting things happened here. ::rubs eyes while shaking head::

  150. 150.

    Jonathan

    January 21, 2007 at 8:41 pm

    Jimmy Mack:

    How old are you?

    You seem either very young, very naive or just haven’t been paying attention to politics very long.

  151. 151.

    Krista

    January 21, 2007 at 8:45 pm

    ImJohnGalt Says:

    Krista, curse you for introducing me to the Kingdom of Loathing.

    Blame GOP4Me et al for that one, chum. He lured me in, that smooth bastard. Send a msg. to RedKitten (#1010519) — and I’ll greenlight you into our clan. You get access to stuff that boosts your stats, extra dosh, and can borrow and donate to the clan stash.

  152. 152.

    jake

    January 21, 2007 at 8:47 pm

    GWB could be more competent, it’s true.

    Chernobyl could’ve been worse, it’s true.

  153. 153.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 8:51 pm

    “I do believe this issue isn’t going to be around in 2008. I think it’s going to either tip into civil war … ” He breaks off, as if not wanting to rehearse the handful of other unattractive possibilities. “Listen,” he says, “I believe in prayer. I pray every night.” And that’s where he leaves his discussion of the war this morning: at the kneeling rail.

    John McCain, Feb 07 Vanity Fair

    There you have the gutsy, gutsy leadership of John Fucking McCain.

  154. 154.

    Jimmy Mack

    January 21, 2007 at 8:57 pm

    The McCain Cheslea joke: classless. Not his finest moment. It was a joke, but still…

    The Giuliani story: come on, it’s a divorce, what does that prove?

  155. 155.

    Jonathan

    January 21, 2007 at 9:00 pm

    Here’s a good article about some of Gingrich’s baggage and other assorted dirt on Republicans.

    Republicans Gone Wild

    In 1997, the other Republican leaders attempted a coup to replace Gingrich. DeLay gave his assent to the plot but lay in the background. But the putsch failed, and Gingrich demanded that its leader, rising young star Rep. Bill Paxon of New York, resign from the House. Days later, a bright young journalist, Sandy Hume, of the Hill newspaper, who had used Paxon as his source to disclose details of the coup, committed suicide. Hume, it was said, was despondent over having been arrested for drunken driving.

    Gingrich, at low ebb, grasped onto the impeachment of President Clinton as his lifeline. He pressed it as the No. 1 issue in the 1998 midterm elections, but the Republicans lost five seats in the House. The public was simply opposed to an impeachment. Within two days, Gingrich resigned as speaker. The Republican leadership, especially DeLay, did not believe Gingrich was tough enough to push forward against Clinton. “I melt when I’m around him,” Gingrich confessed to his second wife about Clinton. For more than a year Republicans sent a bodyguard, hardliner Richard Armey, to accompany Gingrich on all trips to the White House, fearing that Gingrich would compromise. Some of the Republicans also were privy to the information that Gingrich was personally vulnerable: His mistress was on the House payroll. And a few months after he quit as speaker, Gingrich told his second wife in a telephone call that he was leaving her.

  156. 156.

    Rome Again

    January 21, 2007 at 9:01 pm

    Look at it this way, BushCo never gets anything right. We all know that even a stopped clock is right twice a day (aren’t they due to get something right?), so perhaps something happens to make it look like the surge works (or at least its presented that way in MSM). Being that it’s McCain’s strategy to surge, that gives him credibility in the eyes of the far right-wingers. So, then they go on to elect “Son of Cain” as POTUS (and Jimmy Mack, et al. will vote for him “because of the man he is”). It could happen.

  157. 157.

    Jonathan

    January 21, 2007 at 9:03 pm

    The Giuliani story: come on, it’s a divorce, what does that prove?

    Err.. What part of “he wanted to move his mistress into the mayor’s mansion with his wife and kids and had to be take to court to stop it” don’t you get?

  158. 158.

    Rome Again

    January 21, 2007 at 9:05 pm

    Err.. What part of “he wanted to move his mistress into the mayor’s mansion with his wife and kids and had to be take to court to stop it” don’t you get?

    ::raises hand:: “I know, I know…. It’s okay if you’re a Republican?”

  159. 159.

    Jonathan

    January 21, 2007 at 9:09 pm

    The McCain Cheslea joke: classless. Not his finest moment. It was a joke, but still…

    I take it your’e not a parent?

    Any parent who would say such a thing in public about the child of another parent is a unempathetic scumbag.

    That “joke” was in 1998 when Chelsea was 18. Can you even imagine how that made her feel?

    Can you imagine how it made her parents feel?

  160. 160.

    Rome Again

    January 21, 2007 at 9:13 pm

    BTW, have you seen Chelsea Clinton lately? If there is a smarter, more poised, better spoken, more beautiful young woman out there in celebrity land, I haven’t seen her. On the other hand, McCain looks like a badly carved pumpkin. so there you are.

    TZ, I concur!

  161. 161.

    Richard 23

    January 21, 2007 at 9:16 pm

    The Giuliani story: come on, it’s a divorce, what does that prove?

    Character. He does that to someone he married? What would he do to you?

    It also conveniently demonstrates his infallibility to the “family values” crowd.

    Like Newt who’d have his wife sign divorce papers while sick in the hospital so he could marry an aide he was cheating on her with.

  162. 162.

    Krista

    January 21, 2007 at 9:23 pm

    Any parent who would say such a thing in public about the child of another parent is a unempathetic scumbag.

    That “joke” was in 1998 when Chelsea was 18. Can you even imagine how that made her feel?

    I don’t care how old or young she was. It’s bad enough when kids get dragged into the spotlight via their parents’ political ambitions. They shouldn’t have to put up with nasty comments from people who are definitely old enough to know better than that.

    If you want to make fun of a politician, fine. They signed up for that life, and have to take some lumps. But their kids should be perpetually off-limits. (At least until they launch their own political careers…)

  163. 163.

    Chuck Butcher

    January 21, 2007 at 9:24 pm

    Keeeripes. Hillary Clinton = GWB – Stupidity

    I’m a hard working member of DPO (Dem P of OR) and if it goes that way, I’ll cast a vote for her, and that’s all I’ll damn well do. I have made some significant effects in DPO, so it’s not a minor loss.

    So far the Republicans haven’t come up with somebody I like better than Hillary and it’s damn unlikely but Hillary could single handedly undo in one election all the good work done in the west for Democratic candidates.

  164. 164.

    TenguPhule

    January 21, 2007 at 9:26 pm

    Gingrich has yet to announce. But I could personally get behind his candidacy as well.

    Either Farting Housecoat is a spoof, or the Darrells have found a new champion in the art of stupidity.

  165. 165.

    demimondian

    January 21, 2007 at 9:27 pm

    You’re killing me.

    C’mon, OC — we don’t bite. If difficult to do electronically, after all.

    And, if you need extra space in your inbox, several of us can end you invitations to GMail…

  166. 166.

    TenguPhule

    January 21, 2007 at 9:27 pm

    McCain supporters, the New Naderites.

    Proving that there is nothing Republicans fuckup that they won’t find someone even worse to finish the job.

  167. 167.

    Jonathan

    January 21, 2007 at 9:36 pm

    I don’t care how old or young she was.

    Neither do I, I was just pointing out that Chelsea was still a teenager and at a very vulnerable point in her life at the time.

    Not that there haven’t been lots of snarky comments on the left about the Bush twins, but I haven’t heard any public comments from well known politicians.

  168. 168.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 9:36 pm

    Being that it’s McCain’s strategy to surge

    Rules for being 70: Urge, or purge. But never surge. McCain needs to act his age.

  169. 169.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 9:41 pm

    “I melt when I’m around him,” Gingrich confessed to his second wife about Clinton.

    To which she replied …. “Me too!”

    Just made that up.

  170. 170.

    Jonathan

    January 21, 2007 at 9:43 pm

    Oh yeah, Limbaugh called Chelsea “the White House Dog” on the air.

    Rush Limbaugh took this shot: “Everyone knows the Clintons have a cat,” said Limbaugh. “Socks is the White House cat. But did you know there is also a White House dog?” And he held up a picture of Chelsea.

  171. 171.

    Rome Again

    January 21, 2007 at 9:43 pm

    Rules for being 70: Urge, or purge. But never surge. McCain needs to act his age.

    Too late, sorry!

  172. 172.

    Jonathan

    January 21, 2007 at 9:48 pm

    And then Bush called Limbaugh a National Treasure.

    “The president noted Rush Limbaugh is a national treasure,” one senior White House staffer told the Drudge Report.

    Jeebus, what a bunch of maggots these folks are.

  173. 173.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 9:48 pm

    And he held up a picture of Chelsea

    Yes, I saw him do it at the time, on his tv show.

    That was the moment at which I knew that Limbaugh was a piece of crap, and the people who listen to him and follow his advice are just trash. I’ve never regretted coming to that conclusion, it’s proven itself true over and over again.

  174. 174.

    Jonathan

    January 21, 2007 at 9:49 pm

    TZ:

    I guess Newtie had a man crush on the Decider.

  175. 175.

    TenguPhule

    January 21, 2007 at 9:51 pm

    Not that there haven’t been lots of snarky comments on the left about the Bush twins, but I haven’t heard any public comments from well known politicians.

    The Bush twins make their own jokes.

  176. 176.

    Rome Again

    January 21, 2007 at 9:51 pm

    “I melt when I’m around him,” Gingrich confessed to his second wife about Clinton.

    George Bush, Sr. melts around him too, they’re BFF!

  177. 177.

    Rome Again

    January 21, 2007 at 9:55 pm

    The Bush twins make their own jokes.

    The Bush twins ARE jokes, just ask Argentina.

  178. 178.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 9:55 pm

    what a bunch of maggots

    Jeff Goldblum resembles that remark.

  179. 179.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 10:11 pm

    The Bush twins ARE jokes, just ask Argentina.

    Just the bare facts, please. So to speak.

  180. 180.

    Jonathan

    January 21, 2007 at 10:12 pm

    Oops,

    I meant Newtie had a man crush on the Clenis.

  181. 181.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 10:22 pm

    I meant Newtie had a man crush on the Clenis.

    An unfortunate picture is forming ….

  182. 182.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 10:32 pm

    Okay, great game by the Colts, but according to the owner:

    “We give all the glory to God.”

    In which case I say, fuck you, and GO BEARS.

    Glory to God, my baby-smooth ass. Anyone who thinks God gives a flying pigshit about a football game deserves to be crushed by THE BEARSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

    All glory to George Halas.

  183. 183.

    CaseyL

    January 21, 2007 at 10:36 pm

    TZ, he’s just the owner. Owners are not the team. In fact, I don’t think there’s ever been an owner who wasn’t a major embarrassment to the team.

  184. 184.

    ThymeZone

    January 21, 2007 at 10:57 pm

    Da Bearsss.

  185. 185.

    Paddy O'Shea

    January 22, 2007 at 12:03 am

    Football is a bore. I’d rather juggle rats that sit through 4 quarters of that crap.

  186. 186.

    Punchy

    January 22, 2007 at 12:04 am

    Jeff Goldblumstein resembles that remark.

    Fixed.

  187. 187.

    Paddy O'Shea

    January 22, 2007 at 12:07 am

    So let’s see, the Super Bowl is going to feature God’s team versus the Secular Humanist team? Is that it?

    Just when you think the game couldn’t get any dumber ..

  188. 188.

    ThymeZone

    January 22, 2007 at 12:11 am

    Just when you think the game couldn’t get any dumber ..

    It’s a kind of performance art, Paddy.

  189. 189.

    Paddy O'Shea

    January 22, 2007 at 12:18 am

    Performance art properly done only has one witness.

  190. 190.

    ThymeZone

    January 22, 2007 at 12:23 am

    Performance art properly done only has one witness.

    Uh ……

  191. 191.

    Jonathan

    January 22, 2007 at 12:27 am

    Football is a bore. I’d rather juggle rats that sit through 4 quarters of that crap.

    Me too.

    “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports … all others are games.”
    Ernest Hemingway

  192. 192.

    Paddy O'Shea

    January 22, 2007 at 12:29 am

    Yeah yeah, I know what performance art is. And I still say two dogs on a hot afternoon can out on a better show than all those knuckleheads cited on Winkypedia.

  193. 193.

    Paddy O'Shea

    January 22, 2007 at 12:31 am

    Yeah yeah. I know what performance art is. And I still think two dogs on a hot afternoon can put on a better show than all those mooks cited on Winkypedia.

  194. 194.

    ThymeZone

    January 22, 2007 at 12:35 am

    Yeah yeah, I know what performance art is.

    No, the Potato Famine was not performance art, Paddy.

    Sorry.

  195. 195.

    Paddy O'Shea

    January 22, 2007 at 12:43 am

    TZ: I know this is hardly news, but you’re a bit of an ass.

  196. 196.

    ThymeZone

    January 22, 2007 at 1:02 am

    TZ: I know this is hardly news, but you’re a bit of an ass.

    Fuck you, Paddy. I’m an ass for not bowing before your shitty attempts at humor and dissing football here?

    What the fuck is your problem? You post pictures of a leprechaun’s butt every six hours because people don’t bow before your bullshit, and you are going to try to call me an ass? I don’t think so, you Irish dicklicker.

  197. 197.

    Rome Again

    January 22, 2007 at 1:42 am

    “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports … all others are games.”
    Ernest Hemingway

    I might add Skydiving to that list (yeah, I was once that crazy… oops, make that 10 times.)

  198. 198.

    Paddy O'Shea

    January 22, 2007 at 6:01 am

    TZ: Take tour meds, pop.

    Mrs Zone? He’s going crazy again. Call the paramedics.

  199. 199.

    Krista

    January 22, 2007 at 7:42 am

    I might add Skydiving to that list (yeah, I was once that crazy… oops, make that 10 times.)

    Nope. I’ve never understood the need to vacate a perfectly functioning aircraft. Maybe I’m just weird. Then again, I’ve also never understood the appeal of football. All that starting and stopping — just play the damn game already!

    At the risk of feeding into the stereotype — now hockey, THAT’S a sport! I don’t really watch any sports on TV, but a live hockey game is exhilarating.

  200. 200.

    jake

    January 22, 2007 at 7:46 am

    OT:
    What does it take to trigger a visit from the Secret Service?
    Not much.

    Not much at all.

  201. 201.

    jake

    January 22, 2007 at 7:56 am

    One more. Here is the letter as published:

    Bush’s Iraq policy led to total failure

    G.W. Bush’s address on Wednesday night was nothing more than an admittance of failure in Iraq, which we all knew before this.

    You don’t fight a war four years and then change plans, you make plans before you go to war. At a time when we should be sending troops home from Iraq, this idiot wants to send 20,000 more U.S. troops. It is clear that the more troops you send to Iraq the fewer will be coming home.

    Democrats in Congress should not vote one more dollar and not allow one more soldier to be sent to Iraq. This maniac must be stopped at all costs. Iraq has lost its dictator but we still have G.W. Bush.

    If you can’t win in Iraq with 140,000 U.S. troops, you can’t win with 240,000 troops. But Bush is too dumb to know it. After more than 3,000 U.S. deaths and more than 16,000 wounded and more than $400 billion tax dollars lost in Iraq, you would think that any moron would know it’s time to go.

    The best thing now is to get U.S. troops out of Iraq and get Bush out of Washington. I still believe they hanged the wrong man.

    Dan Tilli

    Bethlehem

  202. 202.

    demimondian

    January 22, 2007 at 9:34 am

    The letter as written shouldn’t have triggered a visit. However, given that the gentleman in question also wrote a letter a couple of years ago advocating a civil war to unseat the pres, there is a little more back-story than it appears on the basis of the letter itself.

    The law restricting the right to threaten the president has always struck me as a poor law, violating both the freedom of speech and the equal protection clauses, on the one hand, and not providing any real protection, on the other. Can somebody explain it to me?

  203. 203.

    ThymeZone

    January 22, 2007 at 9:48 am

    All that starting and stopping—just play the damn game already!

    The baroque formality of it, and the time necessary to plan strategy, are part of the game. It’s a game of field position. There is a lot of activity between the snaps of the ball, and much of that activity is part of the game. The structure of the rules require that formalities are observed before, during, and after the snap. That stuff IS the game. Otherwise, you just get rugby. Which is fine, but that’s a different kind of game.

    Americans like their rulebooks where both sides are equal. I think we fought the Crown over that once …..

  204. 204.

    ThymeZone

    January 22, 2007 at 9:50 am

    Can somebody explain it to me?

    Sure. First, you’re wrong, it does add “real” protection, and second, the president is not just an ordinary citizen and doesn’t just get ordinary equal protection.

  205. 205.

    Paddy O'Shea

    January 22, 2007 at 9:53 am

    The reason a televised football game seemingly lasts forever is that enormous sums of money are made by both the television networks and owners through the sale of advertising.

    The cash raised through the peddling of lousy beer, Viagra and 8 cylinder pickup trucks lines a lot of corporate pockets. All done while the players themselves idle on the field or talk to their agents on their cellphones.

  206. 206.

    ThymeZone

    January 22, 2007 at 9:57 am

    Other than that, though, Demi, I pretty much agree with the letter writer except for the hanging part. That line was a dumb rhetorical move, and weakens the letter’s message, which is really about the war, and pretty much correct.

    But I totally agree with the law and its bubble of concern for conspiratorial talk about harming the president. I think all officials should get that bubble of protection, including judges and lawmakers.

    Freedom of speech does not include freedom to conspire to harm officials, or overthrow the government.

  207. 207.

    ThymeZone

    January 22, 2007 at 9:58 am

    enormous sums of money are made by both the television networks and owners through the sale of advertising.

    Gee, that’s just awful. Isn’t there a law or something?

  208. 208.

    ThymeZone

    January 22, 2007 at 9:59 am

    lousy beer, Viagra and 8 cylinder pickup trucks

    God Bless America, pal.

  209. 209.

    Zifnab

    January 22, 2007 at 10:26 am

    The law restricting the right to threaten the president has always struck me as a poor law, violating both the freedom of speech and the equal protection clauses, on the one hand, and not providing any real protection, on the other. Can somebody explain it to me?

    There’s a thin line between “freedom of speech” and “conspiracy to committ murder” when you start writing things like “I’m going to stab the President in the eye with a stapler next week”. If your next door neighbor started writing you letters telling you how he was going to shot you as you drove into your drive-way, and you brought said letters to the police, and they merely replied “That’s his freedom of speech” without so much as a follow-up phone-call to the neighbor, I imagine you’d feel somewhat disturbed.

    Of course, if the police kicked down the guy’s door, threw him in handcuffs, and dragged him off to Gitmo, that would be another story entirely.

    If you don’t want Secret Service agents showing up at your front door to see if you’re a serious threat, don’t write threatening letters to the President. You wouldn’t tolerate it from your next door neighbor, why should a public offical tolerate it from you?

  210. 210.

    Jonathan

    January 22, 2007 at 10:36 am

    Superpathogen has evolved in US military hospitals in Europe and is spreading elsewhere.

    Since OPERATION Iraqi Freedom began in 2003, more than 700 US soldiers have been infected or colonized with Acinetobacter baumannii. A significant number of additional cases have been found in the Canadian and British armed forces, and among wounded Iraqi civilians. The Armed Forces Institute of Pathology has recorded seven deaths caused by the bacteria in US hospitals along the evacuation chain. Four were unlucky civilians who picked up the bug at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, DC, while undergoing treatment for other life-threatening conditions. Another was a 63-year-old woman, also chronically ill, who shared a ward at Landstuhl with infected coalition troops.

    Behind the scenes, the spread of a pathogen that targets wounded GIs has triggered broad reforms in both combat medical care and the Pentagon’s networks for tracking bacterial threats within the ranks. Interviews with current and former military physicians, recent articles in medical journals, and internal reports reveal that the Department of Defense has been waging a secret war within the larger mission in Iraq and Afghanistan – a war against antibiotic-resistant pathogens.

  211. 211.

    Paddy O'Shea

    January 22, 2007 at 10:39 am

    TZ: Judging by your bizarre behavior last night I’d say the advertising of lousy beer works on some people.

  212. 212.

    ThymeZone

    January 22, 2007 at 10:43 am

    Judging by your bizarre behavior

    That’s right, Paddy, making fun of you is “bizarre behavior.”

    I can’t figure out why you aren’t a Republican, you would fit right in.

    Tell us some more about how football is no damned good. Seriously, it’s just riveting material.

  213. 213.

    ThymeZone

    January 22, 2007 at 11:02 am

    Hey Paddy, there’s a great bargain over at Amazon today.

    You can get a copy of “The Wisdom of the Irish” for $0.01.

    I kid you not.

    At that price, you should get several copies and give them as gifts.

    Don’t say I never did anything for ya, buddy.

  214. 214.

    Rome Again

    January 22, 2007 at 11:07 am

    You can get a copy of “The Wisdom of the Irish” for $0.01.

    I kid you not.

    LMAO, I’m not even going to ask how you got that information… oh what the hell, yes I am. Did you just find that link now or have you been holding that for just this particular moment? That was hilarious.

  215. 215.

    Jake

    January 22, 2007 at 11:30 am

    If you don’t want Secret Service agents showing up at your front door to see if you’re a serious threat, don’t write threatening letters to the President.

    The problem of course is with the interpretation of “threat.” If you think “I still think they hanged the wrong guy,” in a letter to the editor = Sending threatening letters to the president … Well, at least it will keep the SS busy.

    What struck me about the letter was how similar it was in wording and content to stuff I read in blogs every day. Is a call for Reid or Pelosi to kick the president’s arse a threat? Suggesting Bush should be sent to Iraq to fight? What about a sincere wish for Cheney to have another heart attack?

    These could be seen as threats, but I don’t think a reasonable person would see it as anything but random rantings. Unfortunately, reasonable people aren’t in charge these days.

  216. 216.

    ThymeZone

    January 22, 2007 at 11:34 am

    Well, Rome, Paddy has what you might call a history here. Some of us have been around the Paddy-O furniture before with the guy.

    Paddy is chagrined that I said “fuck you” to him last night. Which puts me on what might be the least exclusive list at Balloon-Juice, I think. He might be the only guy who has ever stirred up unanimous objection to being on our Lefty Mailing List.

    Let’s just say, based on this, the Irish people should think twice before lecturing anybody on their behavior.

    They’re within reach of being seen as being as crazy as the Arabs, at this point.

  217. 217.

    Pb

    January 22, 2007 at 11:45 am

    The Secret Service will follow up on practically anything someone thinks might be a threat, but to date, I’ve only heard about the people they didn’t bring in. Here’s one I remember from 2001, not long after 9/11–hypothetical scenario = Secret Service visit.

  218. 218.

    Rome Again

    January 22, 2007 at 11:53 am

    They’re within reach of being seen as being as crazy as the Arabs, at this point.

    Well, I have my own theories about all that (which I won’t share, I’d only make your head spin, and trust me, you don’t want to know – let’s just say Christianity itself is the problem) but, Paddy is American, right?

    I know lots of American Irish who are really cool people who are not directly involved in what goes on in Ireland itself. Sure, they’re temperamental people (so are you, and I like that about you) but I can’t see holding the religious war of the Irish against Paddy personally.

    Now, about the fight between you two, completely understandable, you both are individuals with strong points of view, and I personally see that as healthy.

    I was merely asking about the “Wisdom of the Irish” link, trying to figure where you came up with that.

    By the way, about this mailing list, how come I was never invited?

  219. 219.

    Rome Again

    January 22, 2007 at 11:55 am

    You know, I used to think it was cool to have a cousin in the Secret Service, now I’m not so sure it would be of any help.

  220. 220.

    Paddy O'Shea

    January 22, 2007 at 12:18 pm

    Thyme Zone is just all het up because I called him an old fart and parboiled desert trailer trash. He rants all sorts of anti-Irish bigotry because basically he’s a hateful old man, but also because he cribbed most of it from GOP4Me.

    And as far as the mailing list, I get spammed enough as it is.

  221. 221.

    Rome Again

    January 22, 2007 at 12:26 pm

    I’m not really in the mood for “Let’s you and him fight”, okay?

  222. 222.

    Paddy O'Shea

    January 22, 2007 at 12:37 pm

    Then tell him to put a sock on it. I’m only responding to the stupid bigot’s racial smears.

  223. 223.

    demimondian

    January 22, 2007 at 12:40 pm

    Hey, Rome, ya gotta ask. Follow the link in Thyme Zone’s name, and send him a mail.

  224. 224.

    Rome Again

    January 22, 2007 at 12:42 pm

    Then tell him…

    No Paddy, YOU tell him, I believe I just said:

    I’m not really in the mood for “Let’s you and him fight”, okay?

  225. 225.

    Rome Again

    January 22, 2007 at 12:45 pm

    Cool Demi, thanks! I’ll do that :)

  226. 226.

    Rome Again

    January 22, 2007 at 12:47 pm

    ROFLMAO, so I go to TZ’s site, and what do I find?

    Email me (address not available today)

    Ain’t it my luck!

  227. 227.

    Zifnab

    January 22, 2007 at 12:58 pm

    These could be seen as threats, but I don’t think a reasonable person would see it as anything but random rantings. Unfortunately, reasonable people aren’t in charge these days.

    True enough. I was more refering to the “I’m gonna blow up a government building” style threats more than the “I wish Bush would fall of a cliff into a bear trap covered in herpes” crowd.

    The Secret Service confirmed the encounter. Bob Slama, special agent in charge of the Secret Service’s Philadelphia office, said it was the agency’s duty to investigate.

    The agents almost immediately decided Tilli was not a threat, Slama said

    “We have no further interest in Dan,” he said.

    Tilli said the agents appeared more relaxed when he dug out a scrapbook containing more than 200 letters that he has written over the years, almost all on political topics.

    “He said, ‘Keep writing, but just don’t make no threats,'” Tilli said of one of the agents.

    It wasn’t Tilli’s first run-in with the federal government over his letter writing. Two
    FBI agents from Allentown showed up at his home last year about a letter he wrote advocating a civil war to unseat Bush, he said.

    I mean, it seems like this guy has his name on a list somewhere. The SS showed up, looked around, gave him as polite a warning as one could ask for, then left. If there’d been harassment involved or he’d lost his job or Navy Seals proceeded to egg his house, we’d have a problem. But this just looks like a case of agents being overly cautious. The very fact that the SS encouraged him to “keep writing” makes this about as big a non-Free Speech issue as you could make it.

  228. 228.

    Rome Again

    January 22, 2007 at 1:01 pm

    I mean, it seems like this guy has his name on a list somewhere. The SS showed up, looked around, gave him as polite a warning as one could ask for, then left.

    Well, according to the piece I read earlier, this wasn’t the first time he was visited by SS, but something drew them to him previously.

  229. 229.

    Rome Again

    January 22, 2007 at 1:02 pm

    Oops, nevermind, that info was right there too.

  230. 230.

    Krista

    January 22, 2007 at 1:09 pm

    Rome, you can send me the email.

    redkitten1975 at yahoo dot ca

  231. 231.

    ThymeZone

    January 22, 2007 at 1:14 pm

    Sorry, Rome, I’ll put the addy back up for today.

    I keep it down to discourage certain kinds of vandalism.

    But send me an email and sign up for our Lefty Mailing List. It’s a good group. Even if Paddy joined, it would still be a good group. Yes, it’s that good :-)

  232. 232.

    ThymeZone

    January 22, 2007 at 1:18 pm

    I’m only responding to the stupid bigot’s racial smears.

    Says the guy who posts a picture of a butt-naked leprechaun multiple times a day.

    Now we know …. it’s a self-portrait, right Paddy?

  233. 233.

    ThymeZone

    January 22, 2007 at 1:19 pm

    He rants all sorts of anti-Irish bigotry because basically he’s a hateful old man

    Nah, don’t puff yourself up, Paddy. It’s just you I don’t like.

    No offense, of course.

  234. 234.

    ThymeZone

    January 22, 2007 at 1:21 pm

    he’s a hateful old man

    Okay, so you got ONE THING right.

    BFD.

  235. 235.

    ThymeZone

    January 22, 2007 at 1:29 pm

    I was merely asking about the “Wisdom of the Irish” link, trying to figure where you came up with that.

    I was looking for some Irish humor and came accross the book reference. When I saw the price at a penny, I knew what I had to do …. too funny to pass up.

    By the way, about this mailing list, how come I was never invited?

    You are definitely invited. Everyone here is invited.

    We’d probably get more members if people knew that I don’t run the thing. I just try to recruit. The list is as democratic (small d) as we can make it.

  236. 236.

    Rome Again

    January 22, 2007 at 1:35 pm

    Thanks Krista, TZ’s got my email in his box. Appreciate the help though.

  237. 237.

    Krista

    January 22, 2007 at 1:36 pm

    Oh, and Rome, there is definitely some good political discussion amongst us on the list, but hell, we’ll talk about pretty much anything. It’s not all serious and long-faced. Sometimes it’s nice to just be able to continue a chat that started on a thread which had since been Darrelled.

  238. 238.

    Rome Again

    January 22, 2007 at 1:40 pm

    I was looking for some Irish humor and came accross the book reference. When I saw the price at a penny, I knew what I had to do …. too funny to pass up.

    So you found it this morning? I was under the impression you had that sitting in a link file. Oh, now I’m less impressed. ::ducks::

  239. 239.

    Rome Again

    January 22, 2007 at 1:43 pm

    Oh, and Rome, there is definitely some good political discussion amongst us on the list, but hell, we’ll talk about pretty much anything. It’s not all serious and long-faced. Sometimes it’s nice to just be able to continue a chat that started on a thread which had since been Darrelled.

    Well, now I know where you all go when you disappear. This site gets going hot and heavy, I jump on and everyone disappears and I’m like flipping through my tv channels trying to figure out what the hell I’m missing because you all disappear at the same time. (I kid you not!)

  240. 240.

    Rome Again

    January 22, 2007 at 1:43 pm

    Or maybe I’m just paranoid!

  241. 241.

    Krista

    January 22, 2007 at 1:49 pm

    Not so much — I tend to do the emails and the Balloon-Juice comments pretty much simultaneously. If I disappear, it’s usually because I have to go do real-life stuff. So no, if a thread dies, it isn’t ’cause we’ve all taken off in order to email each other.

  242. 242.

    Rome Again

    January 22, 2007 at 1:52 pm

    Well, it’s pretty strange that everyone seems to disappear right at the same time (no biggie, but for a while there, I figured I didn’t use enough deodorant or something).

  243. 243.

    ThymeZone

    January 22, 2007 at 1:54 pm

    So you found it this morning?

    Yes, call it a Flame of Opportunity.

    Clearly, the gods made it so. “Widsom of the Irish” on sale at Amazon for a penny? I couldn’t have made it up better!

    (Actually, I think the price is a little steep, but ….)

  244. 244.

    ThymeZone

    January 22, 2007 at 1:56 pm

    Well, it’s pretty strange that everyone seems to disappear right at the same time

    I’ve noticed that too. I tried once to correlate it to things like work, meals and sleep in various time zones and I couldn’t come up with anything.

    It’s a mystery of the sea.

  245. 245.

    Rome Again

    January 22, 2007 at 2:06 pm

    It’s a mystery of the sea.

    I think you’re right. I haven’t been able to correlate it to anything either. You should have seen me switching channels on my tee-vee saying “something’s gotta be happening, where the hell is it?”

  246. 246.

    Krista

    January 22, 2007 at 2:08 pm

    Believe me, you don’t know “disappeared” until you’re a Canadian looking for conversation on an American blog over the American Thanksgiving….you can practically see the tumbleweeds.

  247. 247.

    ThymeZone

    January 22, 2007 at 2:20 pm

    Believe me, you don’t know “disappeared” until you’re a Canadian looking for conversation on an American blog over the American Thanksgiving….you can practically see the tumbleweeds.

    We’re the Stepford Commenters.

  248. 248.

    Rome Again

    January 22, 2007 at 2:30 pm

    Well Krista (interesting name you got there on that list by the way, I can’t quite picture it, am I missing something?)

    I don’t celebrate Thanksgiving (or any other holiday) so I’ll be around, okay? As long as we’re not all sitting in gulags due to BushCo dreams of world domination.

  249. 249.

    Krista

    January 22, 2007 at 2:39 pm

    There is a reason for that, actually. I created that email address solely to correspond with people from here, and didn’t feel comfortable putting in my full name when registering. So, I used my dog’s nickname. After incessant teasing about it, I figured out how to change it, but it made demi and Pooh sad. So, just to humour them, I changed it back.

    I don’t celebrate Thanksgiving (or any other holiday)

    Now that’s intriguing.

  250. 250.

    ThymeZone

    January 22, 2007 at 2:44 pm

    but it made demi and Pooh sad

    Now I am going to be laughing all day over that line.

    Thank you.

    That just might be the funniest line I have ever seen in here.

  251. 251.

    Rome Again

    January 22, 2007 at 2:49 pm

    So Krista, do you normally call the critter MB or just M or just B? How about when you’re mad?

  252. 252.

    Rome Again

    January 22, 2007 at 2:52 pm

    Now that’s intriguing.

    Not really. I believe in God, but I think a lot of the truth was lost, and so I decided it’s better to just not celebrate anything at all. I’ll try to not get too deeply involved in my beliefs though (I do not proselytize) because they would probably drive you (and everyone) crazy.

  253. 253.

    ThymeZone

    January 22, 2007 at 2:55 pm

    I’ll try to not get too deeply involved in my beliefs though (I do not proselytize) because they would probably drive you (and everyone) crazy.

    I would find it interesting.

    But, as you are finding out, most of us are already a little crazy …..

    { face twitches }

  254. 254.

    Krista

    January 22, 2007 at 3:05 pm

    TZ – you know, you can stop laughing at me any time now.

    RA – well, the poor little guy has since passed on, so the question isn’t really applicable.

    And TZ’s right — we are all a little nutso. Some of us more than others, as you can see.

  255. 255.

    Rome Again

    January 22, 2007 at 3:05 pm

    { face twitches }

    Ah, you get those too, huh?

    By the way TZ, who is the moderator? I’ve never wanted to be a troll so much in my entire life (seems awfully strange saying that).

  256. 256.

    Rome Again

    January 22, 2007 at 3:10 pm

    RA – well, the poor little guy has since passed on, so the question isn’t really applicable.

    Oh Gosh Krista, I’m so sorry… I have a cat named Stormy (found and named him just a few days before I met the other Stormy here LMAO). I was a newspaper carrier working during a hurricane and he was left outside (poor pitiful thing, crying, begging me to take him out of that messy weather) so I figured anyone who left him out in that didn’t deserve him and I took him home.

  257. 257.

    ThymeZone

    January 22, 2007 at 3:11 pm

    who is the moderator

    The list? We have no moderator. We just sort of all get along, in the spirit of Rodney King. I mean, Rodney Dangerfield. I can’t speak for the others, but in my case, I like and respect everyone on the list enough to sort of mind my manners most of the time. I think everyone sort of does the same.

    Not like here.

    { John and Tim are falling out of their chairs now … }

  258. 258.

    Rome Again

    January 22, 2007 at 3:14 pm

    well, someone make me a troll dammit, what do I have to do, beg?

  259. 259.

    Krista

    January 22, 2007 at 3:21 pm

    Oh Gosh Krista, I’m so sorry…

    Not to worry. It happened several months ago. He was quite old, and had had a really full, adventurous life. I miss him sorely, but it was his time to go.

    I have a cat named Stormy (found and named him just a few days before I met the other Stormy here LMAO).

    Wacky.

    well, someone make me a troll dammit,

    If you want to be a troll, then you are a troll. It’s all very Zen-like, you see.

  260. 260.

    ThymeZone

    January 22, 2007 at 3:22 pm

    We used to do some organized trolling but it’s gotten a little quiet lately.

    DougJ is the Godfather of Trolling. I don’t know if you know the story behind him, he’s something of a legend here.

    Anyway, we need to stir him up and have him lead us on some trolling expeditions. Somewhere there is a blog or a comments section that needs our services.

    As for “being a troll,” well, that’s like asking Jesus (my yard man) into your heart. You just chant the words and it happens.

  261. 261.

    Rome Again

    January 22, 2007 at 3:28 pm

    DougJ is the Godfather of Trolling. I don’t know if you know the story behind him, he’s something of a legend here.

    TZ, you’re not suffering from Alzheimers, are you? Of course I know DougJ. He hasn’t been around lately though, where has he been?

    I’ll be back later, I gotta go do some dishes and laundry before the hunter gets home. BBL

  262. 262.

    ThymeZone

    January 22, 2007 at 3:36 pm

    TZ, you’re not suffering from Alzheimers, are you?

    How would I know?

    Ha ha, anyway, no. I couldn’t remember how long you have been posting here. DougJ faded off into other activities last year. Couple years ago, he was trolling and spoofing up a storm here and fooled me so many times, I used to joke that he had a metal band fastened around my leg like a bird specimen. Once a week he’d catch me and then throw me back.

  263. 263.

    Rome Again

    January 22, 2007 at 4:14 pm

    Couple years ago, he was trolling and spoofing up a storm here and fooled me so many times

    I remember, confused me too.

  264. 264.

    jake

    January 22, 2007 at 9:10 pm

    We have no moderator

    How about an IMmoderator? That would be tres amusant.

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