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You are here: Home / Politics / Et Tet, McCain?

Et Tet, McCain?

by John Cole|  February 13, 200710:23 am| 60 Comments

This post is in: Politics, War

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John McCain is worried about Iraq. Well, not about the actual mission, in which he is a firm stay-the-course/surge proponent. He is worried about the media blowing it:

Republican presidential hopeful John McCain said Monday he fears an offensive by Iraqi insurgents similar to the Tet offensive by the Viet Cong that sent U.S. casualties soaring in Vietnam nearly 40 years ago.

McCain, a Vietnam war veteran who spent 5 1/2 years as a prisoner of war, said in an interview with The Associated Press that it’s not the U.S. presence in Iraq that upsets voters but rather the number of casualties and the possibility those numbers could rise.

The U.S. death toll is more than 3,100 in the nearly four-year-old war.

“By the way, a lot of us are also very concerned about the possibility of a, quote, ‘Tet Offensive.’ You know, some large-scale tact that could then switch American public opinion the way that the Tet Offensive did,” the Arizona senator said.

Where have I heard this before? Oh, that is right- every six months. President george Bush, 18 October 2006:

STEPHANOPOULOS: Tom Friedman wrote in the New York Times this morning that what we might be seeing now is the Iraqi equivalent of the Tet Offensive in Vietnam in 1968. Tony Snow this morning said, “He may be right.” Do you agree?

BUSH: He could be right. There’s certainly a stepped up level of violence, and we’re heading into an election.

Charles Khron, the WaPo, 29 December 2004:

Jan. 30 will mark Iraq’s first elections on the road to democracy, provided all goes according to plan and administration expectations. It will also mark the 37th anniversary of the turning point in another American war: the Tet offensive of 1968. That was when Americans lost confidence in official pronouncements that the war in Vietnam was winnable.

It must be coincidence that the election date was set for this anniversary. Yet those of us who have vivid recollections of what it was like in and around Hue that year have reason to keep our fingers crossed, hoping that there is indeed no parallel between the two dates.

Charles Bartley, The Opinion Journal, 3 November 2003:

Yet something more than a lost battle, a self-inflicted wound arising from an essentially dishonorable strain of American neurosis. Yes, by all means, don’t do it again in Iraq. As Gov. Dean says, the first step is to tell the truth, starting with the truth of what happened in Vietnam.

John O’Sullivan, National Review, 31 July 2003:

Remember the Tet Offensive” is the mantra I have been repeating to myself in recent days as gloomy media accounts of the deepening U.S quagmire in Iraq crowded the airwaves and news pages. For the benefit of those who remember Tet only fitfully or not at all, it was the 1968 uprising by the Communist Vietcong across Vietnam that brought guerrilla warfare to the gates of the U.S. embassy in South Vietnam. It was a dramatic escalation of the war, but it was also a severe defeat for the Vietcong that revealed the fraudulence of their claim to be a people’s army.

***

Fast forward to the present. Here is a very typical mainstream-media summary, from Time magazine as it happens, of the present situation facing U.S. forces in Iraq:

… military men and women under siege, a casualty count that exceeds the toll of the first Gulf War, anti-Americanism in a land where they had been told our forces would be greeted like heroes, costs reaching a billion dollars a week and going up, some troops homesick and disillusioned, their spouses and parents having no idea when they will see their loved ones again — and no end in sight to any of it.

One could add other discouraging details — much of Baghdad is still without electricity, unemployment accounts for half the Iraqi workforce, Saddam Hussein remains at large — to this account.

Whatever the Tet Offensive may have meant to Viet Nam, it is clear what references to the Tet Offensive mean today- you, the weak-willed American voter and the media are to blame.

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60Comments

  1. 1.

    Jimmmm

    February 13, 2007 at 10:27 am

    Wow. The ‘Cong musta broke Johnny’s brain.

  2. 2.

    Zifnab

    February 13, 2007 at 10:30 am

    You know, some large-scale tact that could then switch American public opinion the way that the Tet Offensive did,” the Arizona senator said.

    What country is McCain living in? Has he even seen the poll numbers? Right now, a massive switch in public opinion on the war could not possibly be a bad thing for the hawks.

    And I’ll say this about Vietnam. It was brutal, it was tragic, it was needless, but at least it was run with some vague inkling of competency. Sure Johnson was trying to micromanage bombing runs, but that’s a step up from George “Whatever my neo-con buddies Generals tell me” Bush.

    Vietnam we lost because it wasn’t our fight. Iraq we’ll lose because of pure ideological incompetence.

  3. 3.

    Tulkinghorn

    February 13, 2007 at 10:40 am

    The point of the Tet offensive is that the US Army prevailed, but this did nothing to make the South Vietnam government honest, effective, and worth fighting for. Vietnamization was after we won against the VC in the course of defending against the Tet offensive. It did not work. How is that the fault of the media depiction of the Tet offensive?

    Like in Iraq, the army can use overwhelming firepower, and win pretty much ever tactical engagement, and come up with new and better strategies in order to hold on. Like in Iraq, the policy was misguided, to put it gently, nd all the tactical and strategic success is for naught.

    But let’s blame the Media! and the Liberals!

  4. 4.

    SLE

    February 13, 2007 at 10:42 am

    I don’t know about stay-the-course. I just got back from Taji, and I simply cannot believe that continuing the current effort will do anything. We have our heroes playing beat cop and trying to get people who want to kill each other to talk nice.

    Nope, there is a war for power in Iraq, and we are simply refereeing, and trying to build up “our team”. Unless there is some desire to train the Iraqi Army to impose a military dictatorship, I really just cannot see where it is all going.

    McCain is clearly acting politically, in my view. When the chips are really down he went for power as opposed to principle. Surprise.

  5. 5.

    celcus

    February 13, 2007 at 10:45 am

    This makes my Brain hurt! Why does the right always leave out the critical bit of information: It wasn’t the a sudden massive offensive that turned public opinion, it was that they had been repeatedly told for months, if not years that everything was going great, the US buildup and strategy had been a smashing success, the Viet Cong was in it’s “last throes”, just a little while longer and it will all be over and, of course, such an attack was not possible.

    Of course they dread a real Tet like offensive, because they have been pandering the same boatload of BS and should reality call them on it, it must be the Democrats fault.

  6. 6.

    Punchy

    February 13, 2007 at 10:51 am

    it’s not the U.S. presence in Iraq that upsets voters but rather the number of casualties and the possibility those numbers could rise.

    Shorter McCain: She doesn’t mind that he has a dick, she’s only upset when he rapes her with it. So really, all the cockslaps and blow jobs shouldn’t be offensive at all.

  7. 7.

    Andrew

    February 13, 2007 at 10:53 am

    Shorter McCain: She doesn’t mind that he has a dick, she’s only upset when he rapes her with it. So really, all the cockslaps and blow jobs shouldn’t be offensive at all.

    McCain is related to Jeff Goldstein?

  8. 8.

    Rome Again

    February 13, 2007 at 11:11 am

    Wow. The ‘Cong musta broke Johnny’s brain.

    WTF are you talking about? It’s obvious you didn’t understand a single word he said.

    Put down the pom-poms Jimmmmmmmmmmmmm and come back to reality.

  9. 9.

    Rome Again

    February 13, 2007 at 11:15 am

    Yet something more than a lost battle, a self-inflicted wound arising from an essentially dishonorable strain of American neurosis. Yes, by all means, don’t do it again in Iraq. As Gov. Dean says, the first step is to tell the truth, starting with the truth of what happened in Vietnam.

    The day we can once again start telling the truth about anything, I will once again be a happy camper.

    God, I hate lies, liars and the reactionary stink that emanates from that shit.

  10. 10.

    ThymeZone

    February 13, 2007 at 11:21 am

    I know I’m the commenter you love to hate, John, since I bitch and moan at every opportunity … but this is a helluva good post. An excellent piece of work.

    McCain is a jerk, period. I hate to say this about a guy who endured POW treatment for this country, seriously. But he has worn that out. That ship has sailed.

  11. 11.

    Rome Again

    February 13, 2007 at 11:21 am

    Shorter McCain: She doesn’t mind that he has a dick, she’s only upset when he rapes her with it. So really, all the cockslaps and blow jobs shouldn’t be offensive at all.

    Feeling a bit ornery today Punchy? I could have done without that vision personally.

  12. 12.

    The Other Steve

    February 13, 2007 at 11:21 am

    What country is McCain living in? Has he even seen the poll numbers? Right now, a massive switch in public opinion on the war could not possibly be a bad thing for the hawks.

    The American people are firmly behind the continued Occupation of Iraq by the Coalition of the Willing.

    I know this for a fact.

    Joe Lieberman told me so.

  13. 13.

    ThymeZone

    February 13, 2007 at 11:25 am

    McCain’s presidential bid is basically over. I think he has blown it completely. Good riddance AFAIC.

  14. 14.

    grumpy realist

    February 13, 2007 at 11:31 am

    I wonder what will happen with McCain’s presidential run and why he is doing this. Does ANYONE think that Iraq will not continue on its sorry path?! Does McCain really believe that this last “surge” will actually fix things?

    At some point, I think the majority of the U.S. is going to get fed up with being screamed at as being “defeatist!” for not wanting to play this game any more.

  15. 15.

    Jake

    February 13, 2007 at 11:34 am

    …it’s not the U.S. presence in Iraq that upsets voters but rather the number of casualties and the possibility those numbers could rise.

    McCain to soldiers: Stop dying you useless grunts!

    I’m telling ya, the melanomas have made their way to his brain.

  16. 16.

    ThymeZone

    February 13, 2007 at 11:34 am

    McCain apparently thinks that he can relive the 1970’s only this time he gets to be the big winner.

    He parlayed Vietnam into a Senate seat, having no particular qualifications, and now is bent on parlaying it into the presidency.

    Oops, reality check. America isn’t the Reagan America any more. He has miscalculated, I think. Watch his numbers go into freefall. That’s my prediction.

  17. 17.

    ThymeZone

    February 13, 2007 at 11:36 am

    I’m telling ya, the melanomas have made their way to his brain.

    Not the first time our agents have planted a mole, eh?

    { sorry, everyone, that had to be said. }

  18. 18.

    MattM

    February 13, 2007 at 11:36 am

    In other news, the Straight Talk Express is going to roll over to the Discovery Institute to deliver a keynote address.

    http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/12/mccain-creationism/

    What an asshole. How did intelligent people (and I include myself in that) ever fall for the McCain-is-a-rebel spin back in 2000?

  19. 19.

    Rome Again

    February 13, 2007 at 11:37 am

    Joe Lieberman told me so.

    Yeah, the token Dem (*Republican in Ind-Dem clothing*) speaks for us all, NOT!

  20. 20.

    Rome Again

    February 13, 2007 at 11:39 am

    Not the first time our agents have planted a mole, eh?

    OMG ::falling off my chair::

  21. 21.

    Zifnab

    February 13, 2007 at 11:44 am

    What an asshole. How did intelligent people (and I include myself in that) ever fall for the McCain-is-a-rebel spin back in 2000?

    Because for a short time he was telling you exactly what you wanted to hear and in the age of gay bashing and warmongering and rampant hysteria that was the best you were going to get.

  22. 22.

    jg

    February 13, 2007 at 11:55 am

    What country is McCain living in? Has he even seen the poll numbers? Right now, a massive switch in public opinion on the war could not possibly be a bad thing for the hawks.

    Clearly you are reality based. McCain is not and more importantly neither is the republican american base. All he has to do is say we’re winning, which is what the base wants to hear. In their minds we are winning and its the liberal media spreading lies that has some folks (treasonous lefties naturlly) thinking its not going so well. All a candidate has to do is play to those thoughts. Say we’re winning in this epic struggle for something and that the media is trying to take it away and you’ll gett heir ears and then their votes. They don’t care about reality they care about heraring that things are as they assume they are.

  23. 23.

    t. jasper parnell

    February 13, 2007 at 12:02 pm

    The title should have been Tet tu, MaCainus.

  24. 24.

    Jake

    February 13, 2007 at 12:04 pm

    Not the first time our agents have planted a mole, eh?

    [Rimshot]

  25. 25.

    dreggas

    February 13, 2007 at 12:14 pm

    It’s even worse than this John. Now we are being told that if we don’t believe everything they tell us on Iran that not only do we not support the troops but now we don’t trust them. I go into it here.

    And sorry for the blog pimping.

  26. 26.

    Face

    February 13, 2007 at 12:16 pm

    Feeling a bit ornery today Punchy? I could have done without that vision personally.

    I hope you’re as offended at my analogy as I was at his comments. Both are disgusting and vile, and intended as such.

  27. 27.

    srv

    February 13, 2007 at 12:16 pm

    What an asshole. How did intelligent people (and I include myself in that) ever fall for the McCain-is-a-rebel spin back in 2000?

    At least most of us knew Bush was a moron beforehand, but he actually believed the crap he said. McCain, this guy would obviously sell out his grandmother.

    Daily Star: Does it belong in science?

    McCain: There’s enough scientists that believe it does. I’m not a scientist. This is something that I think all points of view should be presented

    Me thinks he won’t last very long trying to whore himself out to Rove’s base.

  28. 28.

    srv

    February 13, 2007 at 12:24 pm

    Darrells boy hero president sells out to the North Koreans, and John Bolton rallies the neocons in hope GW can claim plausible deniability ex-post facto:

    “It sends exactly the wrong signal to would-be proliferators around the world: If you hold out long enough and wear down the State Department negotiators, eventually you get rewarded,” said Bolton, who was also involved with North Korea earlier as the State Department’s under secretary for arms control.

    “It makes the [Bush] administration look very weak at a time in Iraq and dealing with Iran it needs to look strong,” he said.

    Jeez, this deal reminds me of something… Wracking my brain here…

    Once Pyongyang takes additional steps to disable its nuclear program, including taking inventory of its plutonium stockpile, it will qualify for another 950,000 tons of fuel oil or equivalent aid, according to the terms of the deal. The aid package is worth $300 million.

    Why it sounds just like Clintons 1994 plan! Except now NK has more nukes because they reprocessed the stuff in storage (and under camera) after Georges “Axis of Evil” bright idea.

    Five years later, and we’re back where we started. Priceless.

  29. 29.

    Faux News

    February 13, 2007 at 12:25 pm

    What country is McCain living in? Has he even seen the poll numbers? Right now, a massive switch in public opinion on the war could not possibly be a bad thing for the hawks.

    Zif:

    Wonkette has a great thread about this as well. Oh, and the current poll numbers cited?

    67% oppose the handling of the war.
    Just 32% approve of Bush.
    Just 26% approve specifically of Bush’s handling of the war.
    62% say the war should’ve never happened.

    Yep, let’s hope there is no Iraqi “Tet Offensive”, it sure would make the poll numbers go south fast!

    Walnuts!

  30. 30.

    Rome Again

    February 13, 2007 at 12:33 pm

    Five years later, and we’re back where we started. Priceless.

    What goes around comes around?

    History repeats itself?

    Doing it all agaiin?

    I wish these m-f’ers would finally learn, so we can move on to the really fun stuff.

  31. 31.

    Rome Again

    February 13, 2007 at 12:35 pm

    Et tu Brutalus?

  32. 32.

    dreggas

    February 13, 2007 at 12:36 pm

    srv says:
    Jeez, this deal reminds me of something… Wracking my brain here…

    Once Pyongyang takes additional steps to disable its nuclear program, including taking inventory of its plutonium stockpile, it will qualify for another 950,000 tons of fuel oil or equivalent aid, according to the terms of the deal. The aid package is worth $300 million.

    Why it sounds just like Clintons 1994 plan! Except now NK has more nukes because they reprocessed the stuff in storage (and under camera) after Georges “Axis of Evil” bright idea

    But see it’s not the Clinton plan because they scrapped that, dawdled around playing footsie at the negotiations table as well as allowing the situation to further deteriorate and then they bring out the GW approved plan which looks like the Clinton plan but is not the Clinton plan because the clinton plan was not GW approved.

  33. 33.

    Rome Again

    February 13, 2007 at 12:39 pm

    and then they bring out the GW approved plan which looks like the Clinton plan but is not the Clinton plan because the clinton plan was not GW approved.

    LMFAO, you know, you’re right!

  34. 34.

    Zifnab

    February 13, 2007 at 12:45 pm

    Five years later, and we’re back where we started. Priceless.

    If only Bush could do so well with Iraq.

    I can’t wait till Bush announces Mission Accomplished in Pyongyang. Maybe he can say he won the Korean War.

  35. 35.

    dreggas

    February 13, 2007 at 12:47 pm

    Rome Again Says:

    LMFAO, you know, you’re right!

    Sadly I have had bosses just like this. I give them a solid plan they reject it only to come out with the same plan the next week.

  36. 36.

    Rome Again

    February 13, 2007 at 12:51 pm

    Sadly I have had bosses just like this. I give them a solid plan they reject it only to come out with the same plan the next week.

    That happens to me a lot. I thought it was just because I’m a tiny Lilliputian female and they are steroidal-manly men with big bux and arrogant personalities.

  37. 37.

    dreggas

    February 13, 2007 at 12:57 pm

    Rome Again Says:

    That happens to me a lot. I thought it was just because I’m a tiny Lilliputian female and they are steroidal-manly men with big bux and arrogant personalities.

    The shitty part is they make those big bucks by adopting your plan as their own and getting all the credit. Yep, I know how it goes.

  38. 38.

    AkaDad

    February 13, 2007 at 12:59 pm

    Everyone knows that If Iran hadn’t sent in all those weapons, Iraq would have been a glorious and magnificent success.

    That’s my right-wing story and I’m stickin’ to it.

  39. 39.

    John Cole

    February 13, 2007 at 12:59 pm

    The title should have been Tet tu, MaCainus.

    I was torn between that, the Et Tet, and Tetcetera.

  40. 40.

    Rome Again

    February 13, 2007 at 1:00 pm

    The shitty part is they make those big bucks by adopting your plan as their own and getting all the credit. Yep, I know how it goes.

    I coulda been a contenda… alas, I’m just a poor female trying to make it on $10.50 an hour. LMAO, yup, been there, done that.

  41. 41.

    Rome Again

    February 13, 2007 at 1:02 pm

    I was torn between that, the Et Tet, and Tetcetera.

    I like “Tetcetera” personally.

  42. 42.

    Rome Again

    February 13, 2007 at 1:04 pm

    By the way John, now that you’re here, I just wanted to say thanks for this blog, it has had a huge impact on me and has totally changed my life. (More than you’ll ever know).

    Thanks! ::smiles::

  43. 43.

    Zifnab

    February 13, 2007 at 1:06 pm

    I like “Tetcetera” personally.

    Ditto, and what he said.

    Honestly, I thought this was a good blog even when you were floating in the right-wing-o-sphere. It’s almost a shame you left (pun!)

  44. 44.

    dreggas

    February 13, 2007 at 1:09 pm

    Rome Again Says:

    I coulda been a contenda… alas, I’m just a poor female trying to make it on $10.50 an hour. LMAO, yup, been there, done that.

    Ouch, $10.50 an hour. I couldn’t imagine trying to live on that here in So-California let alone anywhere else, well it was livable back where I grew up, in NY, but here not a chance.

  45. 45.

    dreggas

    February 13, 2007 at 1:14 pm

    Zifnab Says:

    Honestly, I thought this was a good blog even when you were floating in the right-wing-o-sphere. It’s almost a shame you left (pun!)

    I third this John, Honestly it was hard for me to find common cause with a lot on either side of the spectrum simple because I pissed both sides off equally. Opinion here is no where near as shrill but sober and rational and thanks for this blog and small community. Even with the trolls it’s nice to have a place to discuss this stuff and not be called out for being Non-PC, Insensitive, or being called some freeper just because you don’t drink the uber-lefts kool-aid.

  46. 46.

    grumpy realist

    February 13, 2007 at 1:24 pm

    John–“Tetcetera”?

    Priceless. Thanks again for your blog.

  47. 47.

    DougJ

    February 13, 2007 at 1:39 pm

    I don’t hate McCain — I think he’s a well-meaning person who allowed himself to be co-opted by the far right in hopes of getting the GOP nominiation.

    But this is truly vile. Nothing pisses me off more than people who happily talk about soldiers’ lives in this manner.

  48. 48.

    dreggas

    February 13, 2007 at 1:40 pm

    DougJ Says:

    But this is truly vile. Nothing pisses me off more than people who happily talk about soldiers’ lives in this manner.

    Nothing pisses me off more than seeing these panty wastes use the troops as a shield every time they get called out for their stupidity.

  49. 49.

    Rome Again

    February 13, 2007 at 1:43 pm

    Nothing pisses me off more than seeing these panty wastes use the troops as a shield every time they get called out for their stupidity.

    Agreed dreggas, absolutely, positively, agreed.

  50. 50.

    DougJ

    February 13, 2007 at 1:47 pm

    Even with the trolls

    The reason you can have a serious discussion is _because_ of the trolls. The constant mockery of extreme rhetoric is why extreme rhetoric doesn’t take hold here (except for Darrell).

  51. 51.

    srv

    February 13, 2007 at 2:21 pm

    The reason you can have a serious discussion is because of the trolls. The constant mockery of extreme rhetoric is why extreme rhetoric doesn’t take hold here (except for Darrell).

    Oh, hero, Defender against the Fluffersphere.

  52. 52.

    Perry Como

    February 13, 2007 at 3:01 pm

    The reason you can have a serious discussion is because of the trolls.

    How “honest” of you. I hope you keep saying this so people everyone can see how extreme you are. Strong. Smart.

  53. 53.

    Tsulagi

    February 13, 2007 at 3:35 pm

    Where have I heard this before? Oh, that is right- every six months. President george Bush.

    Yep, and how many times have we heard the next three months are the most crucial. That it could be won or lost in the next three months. So since that keeps coming up, then how many times does that mean the Decidedly Retarded has lost it?

    Whatever the Tet Offensive may have meant to Viet Nam, it is clear what references to the Tet Offensive mean today- you, the weak-willed American voter and the media are to blame.

    Blame America first! Of course. That’s all those Republicans know how to do! It’s who they are.

  54. 54.

    ThymeZone

    February 13, 2007 at 3:54 pm

    I don’t hate McCain—I think he’s a well-meaning person

    Doug, stop. You know we love you, man. Now just stop.

    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. That’s not just a saying. It’s true.

    McCain is the guy who drives you down that road and will wave as you go over the fucking cliff.

    Trust me, I live in Arizona. I know this guy.

  55. 55.

    Rome Again

    February 13, 2007 at 4:05 pm

    Doug, that’s what he WANTS you to think. Are you going to fall for that? I expected more from you. Need some help lifting that wool from your eyes?

  56. 56.

    dreggas

    February 13, 2007 at 4:34 pm

    I don’t hate McCain—I think he’s a well-meaning person

    Oh no I can say without a doubt I hate the old fart at this point. His pretend piety and claims to being “above the fray” are absolute horseshit and he proves this every single day that he bends over and kisses another ass. He’s the Lieberman of the republican party (actually they are all liebermans) and he should be treated as such.

  57. 57.

    DougJ

    February 13, 2007 at 5:33 pm

    I really do think McCain is well-meaning. I also feel he’s very weak. It’s why he can’t win a general election if he gets through the primary.

  58. 58.

    ThymeZone

    February 13, 2007 at 6:29 pm

    I really do think McCain is well-meaning.

    He is, in the same way that Bill Frist is well meaning.

    Bill First, of the $21b Frist family. Very well meaning. Shares your concerns, Doug. You should become a Republican. You’d fit right in there.

  59. 59.

    TM Cleaver

    February 13, 2007 at 6:39 pm

    As someone who was around at the time of the Tet Offensive, what it did was prove the lies of the American government to the American people about the progress of the war. Right up to the week before it happened, American officials in Vietnam were going to great lengths to extoll our success, putting out information the clearly showed how we had increased control of the hamlets and the rural countryside,etc. It was the functional equivalent of Cheney saying last summer that the Iraqi resistance was “in its last throes.” And then along comes the offensive – in every town and city in the country! – and the house of cards that was American policy in Vietnam was revealed for what it was.

    And yes, we did “save” South Vietnam afterwards, doing such things as destroying the city of Hue “to save it,” but the emperor had been revealed at an important moment to not be wearing any clothes.

    As is usual, the right learned the oppposite lesson to what reality was, and is intent on using their incorrect lesson to create further fictional reality here in Iraq.

    The reaction to the Tet Offensive had nothing whatsoever to do with increased casualties and an “inability to take the hit” on the part of the American people. It had everything to do with people seeing that the casualties were a waste in a war unworthy of their sacrifice, that there was no progress in the war, and would be none.

    Which is in fact sort of where we are today with regard to the neocons’ “Invasion of Poland.”

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  1. University Update says:
    February 13, 2007 at 12:31 pm

    Et Tet, McCain?

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