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You are here: Home / Open Thread

Open Thread

by Tim F|  March 7, 200710:46 am| 66 Comments

This post is in: General Stupidity

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Be fair and balanced.

Libbyrama
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Previous Post: « Privatization Kills
Next Post: That Will Leave a Mark »

Reader Interactions

66Comments

  1. 1.

    kchiker

    March 7, 2007 at 10:49 am

    Question of the day: Would Fox be as bad as it is…had Orwell not given them the idea? Or are the similiarities coincidental?

  2. 2.

    Chris Johnson

    March 7, 2007 at 10:53 am

    No! O_O

  3. 3.

    jenniebee

    March 7, 2007 at 11:01 am

    Also, WMDs have been reported to have been found in Iraq. Once again, it has been repeatedly reported that WMDs were found in Iraq.

    That is all.

  4. 4.

    Jake

    March 7, 2007 at 11:07 am

    You’re kidding. Right? No wait, these are the same schlubs who listed Foley as a Democrat. Not to mention Osama luvs Obama and wants to blow up yo mama.

    Forget I asked.

    I guess “We report, you decide” means they can report any damn thing they want and it is up to the viewer to do a little research.

  5. 5.

    Paul L.

    March 7, 2007 at 11:23 am

    Quote of the Day

    As was the case in the Duke lacrosse dust-up, it’s all kinda’ fun when liberals are screaming “throw the book at ’em!” and conservatives are decrying overly zealous prosecutors, and demanding pardons.

  6. 6.

    zzyzx

    March 7, 2007 at 11:23 am

    Well he was found not guilty of lying to FBI investigators. That was the 1 NG verdict. That’s a screen shot so we don’t know if they were focusing solely on that or if it was looping through all 5 charges.

  7. 7.

    p.lukasiak

    March 7, 2007 at 11:26 am

    Well he was found not guilty of lying to FBI investigators. That was the 1 NG verdict. That’s a screen shot so we don’t know if they were focusing solely on that or if it was looping through all 5 charges.

    no, he was found guilty of lying to FBI investigators re: his conversation with Russert, and acquitted of lying to FBI investigators re: conversation with Cooper.

    But do keep trying….

  8. 8.

    p.lukasiak

    March 7, 2007 at 11:29 am

    Bill Clinton lied too.
    Sandy Berger took copies of classified documents.
    William “Freezer” Jefferson remains on the House Homeland Security Committee

    these statements above are provided as a public service to Darrell and his ilk….

  9. 9.

    Tsulagi

    March 7, 2007 at 11:32 am

    And just what is wrong with that picture? It’s on point; The Message is reality. Facts are merely little obstacles to ignore or dodge around.

    Good to see Fox doesn’t bother with that fuzzy subliminal shit. They know their audience.

  10. 10.

    Marcus Wellby

    March 7, 2007 at 11:34 am

    This screen capture doesn’t mean much. I’d like to see what was on the scroll before or after the above screen shot was taken. They could have been going through each charge one at a time.

    I find it hard to believe Fox would push the “not guilty” on one charge bait-and-switch as that might conflict with their future plans to push “Pardon Pardon Pardon” 24×7.

  11. 11.

    cd6

    March 7, 2007 at 11:47 am

    Foxnews is just showing what the world would be like without activist jurors and Patrick “Nifong” Fitzgerald pursuing this travestry trial against a good and honest man.

    I’m a firm believer that non-crimes like perjury should be completely dismissed when the defense presents the evidence they want, not the evidence they have.

    Grand jury? More like bland jury. Am I right?

  12. 12.

    Jill

    March 7, 2007 at 12:02 pm

    Well, FoxNews is just giving the “other” side of the story. You know there are always 2 sides, even if one of the sides is full of lies and deceit the press always gives both sides!

  13. 13.

    zzyzx

    March 7, 2007 at 12:04 pm

    “no, he was found guilty of lying to FBI investigators re: his conversation with Russert, and acquitted of lying to FBI investigators re: conversation with Cooper.”

    Which means a screen shot saying that he was found not guilty of lying to the FBI could make sense if it were part of going through all 5 charges.

    Look, I’m no fan of Fox News, but this isn’t the smoking gun that Foley (D) was.

  14. 14.

    Richard 23

    March 7, 2007 at 12:05 pm

    Fitzfong got nothing. The investigation is over. Actually that screenshot does show the truth. Libby is not guilty even though the moonbat jury tried to convict Rove and Cheney by proxy.

    One of the jurors was a former writer for the liberal Washington ComPost who was friends with Timmy Russert! He should have been thrown off the jury!

    Fox can reuse that screenshot after the pardon. Because he’s not guilty. There was no crime!

  15. 15.

    dreggas

    March 7, 2007 at 12:08 pm

    Eh, it just reinforces their BCS (Bush Codpiece Syndrome) talking points and lets the twits live happily in their little made up realities.

    Sorry but this ain’t suprising in the least. However it was interesting to watch Scarborough last night and even though I am not a Pat Buchanan fan I do so love listening to him eviscerate the VP and Preznit.

  16. 16.

    Zifnab

    March 7, 2007 at 12:12 pm

    “I find it hard to believe Fox would push the “not guilty” on one charge bait-and-switch as that might conflict with their future plans to push “Pardon Pardon Pardon” 24×7.”

    HEY! HEY! You take that back this instant! FOX News may be guilty of many, many, many things. But one thing they are not guilty of is consistancy.

    Seriously, though, this is about par for the course. Admittedly not quite the smoking gun as “Barak Osama” or Foley(D), but how many bullet holes do you need for a verdict?

  17. 17.

    Andrew

    March 7, 2007 at 12:27 pm

    If Bush was really smart, he would pardon all of the Democrat presidential candidates for crimes against humanity.

  18. 18.

    Rudi

    March 7, 2007 at 12:29 pm

    Hume is just an idiot sycophant. He is in bed with the party which vilifies people like his dead son. He is a media whore, why would Fox hire anyone else.

  19. 19.

    Otto Man

    March 7, 2007 at 12:46 pm

    Go over to FoxNews.com and try to find Libby coverage.

    The front page has two mentions — a poll asking if Bush should pardon him, and a piece by O’Reilly asking “Should You Care About the Libby Verdict?” (Prediction: No.)

    The U.S. page has nothing in its four featured stories, since those are reserved for important issues like the Powerball numbers, or its top ten U.S. headlines, which are all about gruesome murders and attempted murders.

    No, the story is buried in the third-tier list of stories:

    * Ann Coulter Fires Back at Critics Over John Edwards ‘Faggot’ Barb
    * Police: Indiana Plane Crash That Killed Man, Daughter Was Intentional
    * Drill Sergeant Accused of Forcing Trainee to Dress as Superman, Submit to Sex Acts
    * Cops: Man Told Toddler ‘Now You Stab Mommy’ After Knifing Teen Wife
    * Saudi Kidnap, Rape Victim Faces Lashing for ‘Crime’ of Being Alone With Man Not Related to Her
    * Astronaut Lisa Nowak ‘Disappointed’ in Pilot’s Relationship With Rival
    * Man Arrested in Plot to Behead NYPD Commissioner
    * I. Lewis ‘Scooter’ Libby Guilty on Four of Five Counts in CIA Leak Trial
    * Reality Check: No More Mr. Nice Guys and Girls
    * Hedge-Fund Manager Sets Up Ex for Rape
    * Will the Real Hillary Please Speak Up?
    * An ‘Inconvenient’ Rebuttal to Al Gore’s Global Warming Claims
    * GRRR! Anna Nicole Smith’s Sideshow

    Fox News: We Report, You Get Dumber.

  20. 20.

    chopper

    March 7, 2007 at 1:08 pm

    Which means a screen shot saying that he was found not guilty of lying to the FBI could make sense if it were part of going through all 5 charges.

    dunno, if they were going through charge by charge they’d identify each one, like ‘first count’ or ‘lying about russert’.

    if they were in fact just going through each one and listing them generically like the screenshot shows then the ticker underneath would say ‘guilty’ then ‘guilty’ then ‘guilty’ then ‘guilty’ then ‘not guilty’, which would just be stupid.

  21. 21.

    Keith

    March 7, 2007 at 1:16 pm

    I won’t shed a tear if FoxNews is being misrepresented by the scroll being taken out of context. It’s almost satirical to watch them sometimes when this kind of thing happens…especially when they rant and rave how it’s unfair yet bookend it with segments doing just that very thing.

  22. 22.

    dslak

    March 7, 2007 at 1:23 pm

    Surprisingly, the piece by O’Reilly at Fox says you should care that Libby was convicted, but Bill can’t stop at just that:

    “The Factor” didn’t cover Libby very much because I had no idea what happened. Unlike the left-wing press, including elements of The New York Times and NBC News, who convicted Libby even before the trial began, we avoid speculation and try to be fair in our analysis. When we don’t know something, we tell you.

    and

    Talking Points is tried of the partisan nonsense and also tired of powerful people not following the rules the regular folks have to follow.

    I’ll at least give him credit for thinking that people in power shouldn’t be above the law, and I’m sure Bill’s sincere when he says he’s tired of partisanship, even though his ratings are dependent upon it.

  23. 23.

    Baby Jane

    March 7, 2007 at 1:39 pm

    It’s a bald faced lie. If, to make sense, it needs to be hashed into truth, then it’s a lie.

  24. 24.

    dreggas

    March 7, 2007 at 1:40 pm

    I’ll at least give him credit for thinking that people in power shouldn’t be above the law, and I’m sure Bill’s sincere when he says he’s tired of partisanship, even though his ratings are dependent upon it.

    Look for him to soon have a come to jesus moment on the factor where he expresses “relief” that he no longer has to “carry water” for them.

  25. 25.

    Punchy

    March 7, 2007 at 1:40 pm

    Uh…dslak? That O’Rielly quote was obviously mis-edited and chopped prematurely. It should read as:

    When we don’t know something, we tell you what the answer is anyways (the Dems are at fault), because we don’t give two shits about accuracy or balance.

    Fixed.

  26. 26.

    Bubblegum Tate

    March 7, 2007 at 1:47 pm

    Fox News: We Report, You Get Dumber.

    Fox News: Ow, My Balls!
    Fox News: Go Away, I’m ‘Bating!

    (Obviously, I’ve got Idiocracy on the brain today.)

  27. 27.

    dreggas

    March 7, 2007 at 1:53 pm

    Bubblegum Tate Says:

    Fox News: Ow, My Balls!
    Fox News: Go Away, I’m ‘Bating!

    (Obviously, I’ve got Idiocracy on the brain today.)

    Must see this movie of which you speak…

  28. 28.

    Andrew

    March 7, 2007 at 2:00 pm

    Well Tate, it says on your chart you’re fucked up, you talk like a fag, and your shit’s all retarded.

  29. 29.

    Otto Man

    March 7, 2007 at 2:16 pm

    Must see this movie of which you speak…

    It’s funny in a very depressing kind of way. It’s like a world full of Darrells.

  30. 30.

    dreggas

    March 7, 2007 at 2:20 pm

    Otto Man Says:

    It’s funny in a very depressing kind of way. It’s like a world full of Darrells.

    I actually find irony and satire extremely amusing. Then again when you are clinically depressed even depressing stuff has to be funny or else you go completely mad.

  31. 31.

    jenniebee

    March 7, 2007 at 2:48 pm

    * Ann Coulter Fires Back at Critics Over John Edwards ‘Faggot’ Barb
    * Police: Indiana Plane Crash That Killed Man, Daughter Was Intentional
    * Drill Sergeant Accused of Forcing Trainee to Dress as Superman, Submit to Sex Acts
    * Cops: Man Told Toddler ‘Now You Stab Mommy’ After Knifing Teen Wife
    * Saudi Kidnap, Rape Victim Faces Lashing for ‘Crime’ of Being Alone With Man Not Related to Her
    * Astronaut Lisa Nowak ‘Disappointed’ in Pilot’s Relationship With Rival
    * Man Arrested in Plot to Behead NYPD Commissioner
    * I. Lewis ‘Scooter’ Libby Guilty on Four of Five Counts in CIA Leak Trial
    * Reality Check: No More Mr. Nice Guys and Girls
    * Hedge-Fund Manager Sets Up Ex for Rape
    * Will the Real Hillary Please Speak Up?
    * An ‘Inconvenient’ Rebuttal to Al Gore’s Global Warming Claims
    * GRRR! Anna Nicole Smith’s Sideshow

    Exotic sex, exotic violence, we hatez teh Clenis and all his peeps, and, oh yeah, the former Chief of Staff to the most powerful Veep in US history is going to jail. Now, back to death and boobies!

  32. 32.

    Justin

    March 7, 2007 at 3:14 pm

    Oh come on, you’ve missed the best part. On foxnews.com:

    “With a retrial on its way, many speculate that if Libby is found guilty again, President Bush will pardon him so he won’t have to do any jail time.”

    Retrial? Huh?

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,257361,00.html

  33. 33.

    Justin

    March 7, 2007 at 3:18 pm

    PS I hate to defend O’Reilly, but he answers that question “yes” and states:

    “Now all Americans should demand those holding political power tell the truth about everything. The jury says Scooter Libby lied under oath — that’s unacceptable.”

    He of course takes a bunch of strong shots at the left and a weak shot at the right (gotta be fair and balanced), and focuses the motive and problems on “revenge” rather than, you know, Iraq or WMD or whatnot – and doesn’t mention Cheney at all. But he’s not PARDONPARDONPARDON (TM) like the National Review, either.

  34. 34.

    Tsulagi

    March 7, 2007 at 3:34 pm

    Must see this movie of which you speak…

    It’s funny in a very depressing kind of way. It’s like a world full of Darrells.

    Rented that movie a few weeks ago. Cracked me up!

    They could have renamed that movie Bushyworld 2500 AD. It’s what the country would be like if the 28%ers became the 100%ers. Ann Faggot Coulter would find bliss in the Idiocracy.

  35. 35.

    Tom in Texas

    March 7, 2007 at 3:38 pm

    So, this being an open thread ostensibly about Fox News, has anyone else heard about the gay porn star turned abused Marine who has been lauded by O’Reilly/Hannity and Coulter (and even received an award at CPAC last weekend)? His interview will be posted tomorrow…..

  36. 36.

    Bubblegum Tate

    March 7, 2007 at 3:40 pm

    Well Tate, it says on your chart you’re fucked up, you talk like a fag, and your shit’s all retarded.

    That entire trial scene is completely awesome.

  37. 37.

    Krista

    March 7, 2007 at 3:57 pm

    It’s funny in a very depressing kind of way. It’s like a world full of Darrells.

    They’re not as belligerent, though. That takes too much energy. (They must need more electrolytes! It’s what plants crave!)

  38. 38.

    Andrew

    March 7, 2007 at 4:01 pm

    That entire trial scene is completely awesome.

    You’re so ‘tarded. You don’t even know what scene. It was doctor scene, ‘tard.

    But don’t worry scrote. There are plenty of ‘tards out there living really kick ass lives. My first wife was ‘tarded. She’s a pilot now.

  39. 39.

    Tsulagi

    March 7, 2007 at 4:09 pm

    You’re so ‘tarded. You don’t even know what scene. It was doctor scene, ‘tard.

    The intelligence/aptitude scene was great too.

    “If you have five gallons in one bucket, and two gallons in another bucket, how many buckets do you have?”

    You just know current day 28%tards watching the movie were thinking seven.

  40. 40.

    ThymeZone

    March 7, 2007 at 4:27 pm

    Brit Hume is surely the biggest horse’s ass in cable news, and that is an industry that is the New York City of horse’s asses.

  41. 41.

    dreggas

    March 7, 2007 at 4:27 pm

    Oh boy Domenici Lawyered up and his defense atty is a doozy:

    TPM Muckraker has the details

  42. 42.

    Zifnab

    March 7, 2007 at 4:49 pm

    So, this being an open thread ostensibly about Fox News, has anyone else heard about the gay porn star turned abused Marine who has been lauded by O’Reilly/Hannity and Coulter (and even received an award at CPAC last weekend)?

    Do the Republicans have any non-gay-porn-star spokesmen? I’m beginning to wonder if the entire gay porn industry isn’t some secret recruiting pool for party. Or maybe the problem is that the only people with the integretiy level necessary to participate in a Republican snow job are people who have anal sex for money. Tony? Hume? Coulter? We’re looking at you.

  43. 43.

    Bubblegum Tate

    March 7, 2007 at 4:54 pm

    You’re so ‘tarded. You don’t even know what scene. It was doctor scene, ‘tard.

    Oh, crap. I am ‘tarded. Can’t I just pay this much money and be on my way?

    The “Brawno has what plants crave–electrolytes” scene still cracks me up. It’s like perfect wingnut circular logic. “I ain’t never seen no plants growing in a toilet!”

    Does anybody else refer to restaurant menu items as “Extra Big-Ass [fill in menu item here]”? Just me? OK, then.

  44. 44.

    RSA

    March 7, 2007 at 5:01 pm

    Do the Republicans have any non-gay-porn-star spokesmen?

    Judging from the hairstyles of Fox newscasters (e.g., Gibson and Hannity), I’d say there are a good many porn star has-beens or porn star wannabes waiting in the wings.

  45. 45.

    Tsulagi

    March 7, 2007 at 5:02 pm

    They’re not as belligerent, though. That takes too much energy.

    Also a plus is they’re not strung out on Jesus. Maybe a side benefit of what the all-consuming quest for the perfect boner pill will do for you.

  46. 46.

    dreggas

    March 7, 2007 at 5:10 pm

    RSA Says:

    Judging from the hairstyles of Fox newscasters (e.g., Gibson and Hannity), I’d say there are a good many porn star has-beens or porn star wannabes waiting in the wings

    Actually that “look” is what they want in male porn stars for that very reason, that’s the “normal guy” they are trying to appeal to. That’s why Ron Jeremy was such a big (pun not intended…really) name.

  47. 47.

    Andrew

    March 7, 2007 at 5:15 pm

    Carl’s Jr: Fuck you, I’m eating!

  48. 48.

    Richard 23

    March 7, 2007 at 6:00 pm

    Do the Republicans have any non-gay-porn-star spokesmen?

    You think you’re funny. How about Mary Carey?

  49. 49.

    Richard 23

    March 7, 2007 at 6:03 pm

    You’re so ‘tarded. You don’t even know what scene. It was doctor scene, ‘tard.

    But don’t worry scrote. There are plenty of ‘tards out there living really kick ass lives. My first wife was ‘tarded. She’s a pilot now.

    This is what passes for intelligent discourse on the wackjob left. Speak truth to power, bro!

  50. 50.

    Andrew

    March 7, 2007 at 6:11 pm

    This is what passes for intelligent discourse on the wackjob left. Speak truth to power, bro!

    There’s that fag talk we talked about. Dude.

  51. 51.

    Richard 23

    March 7, 2007 at 6:13 pm

    There’s that fag talk we talked about. Dude.

    You win this round. LOL! I can’t think of anything worse than fag talk!

  52. 52.

    Tsulagi

    March 7, 2007 at 6:16 pm

    Carl’s Jr: Fuck you, I’m eating!

    LOL. I have to watch that movie again.

    Fox News, thriving in the Idiocracy.

  53. 53.

    Andrew

    March 7, 2007 at 6:20 pm

    You win this round. LOL! I can’t think of anything worse than fag talk!

    I know! And I’m all, ‘you’ve gotta be shittin’ me!’ But check this out man, judge should be like ‘guilty!’ Peace.

  54. 54.

    Andrew

    March 7, 2007 at 6:22 pm

    That should be…

    You win this round. LOL! I can’t think of anything worse than fag talk!

    I know! And I’m all, ‘you’ve gotta be shittin’ me!’ But check this out man, judge should be like ‘guilty!’ Peace.

  55. 55.

    Richard 23

    March 7, 2007 at 6:32 pm

    Are you Ali-G, Andrew? Do you like jungle?

    You might enjoy this Ali-G interview with far left wackjob Noam Chomsky. You leftist seem to like the guy. I offer this as an olive branch. :-D

    Of course, if you are Ali-G, you’ll probably really enjoy it. Is he an Al Jazerra reporter or something? I don’t get it.

  56. 56.

    Bruce Moomaw

    March 7, 2007 at 8:26 pm

    In the Sympathy for the Devil department: are you sure that that Fox caption wasn’t just one of a rapid-fire series listing the verdicts on all five counts?

  57. 57.

    itzWicks

    March 7, 2007 at 8:34 pm

    Mistakes happen all the time on the cable news channels. I am not freaking out over this. Methinks that someone in the control booth might have been doing some wishful thinking, but in the end, the correction was made, and nothing changed.

    If ANYONE solely gets their news from television, I would say that they are woefully uninformed, or not getting the full picture which can not be captured in a 2-minute news package.

  58. 58.

    Richard 23

    March 7, 2007 at 9:01 pm

    I think the caption would be more accurate if it said:

    Scooter Libby is not guilty of lying to FBI investigators.

    But it is live TV. Mistakes can happen. CNN has had its share of unfortunate captions. Most recently: “Coulter’s Ugly Crack.”

  59. 59.

    The Other Steve

    March 8, 2007 at 8:50 am

    Mistakes happen all the time on the cable news channels. I am not freaking out over this. Methinks that someone in the control booth might have been doing some wishful thinking, but in the end, the correction was made, and nothing changed.

    considering one of the top posts in your blog is defending Ann Coulter.

    Why am I not surprised?

  60. 60.

    Rusty Shackleford

    March 8, 2007 at 9:07 am

    Porn free
    Left-wing blogs gleefully outed my gay porn past after I criticized antiwar zealots. But the truth has set me free.

    By the way, as a political minority on the Columbia campus, people are always asking me, “How can you be a conservative? They’re so hateful.” That wasn’t the feeling I got when I accepted my award. And it’s not what I’ve been hearing from the conservative community since my “outing.”

    Because everyone knows that if there is one thing that the conservative community loves it’s gay porn stars.

  61. 61.

    The Other Steve

    March 8, 2007 at 9:07 am

    I do hope the Democrats bail on the Fox News debate. Fox simply isn’t a credible cable news channel, as they have a long history of distortion and plain getting things wrong.

  62. 62.

    Rusty Shackleford

    March 8, 2007 at 9:28 am

    The Other Steve Says:

    I do hope the Democrats bail on the Fox News debate. Fox simply isn’t a credible cable news channel, as they have a long history of distortion and plain getting things wrong.

    March 8th, 2007 at 9:07 am

    With Edwards out I’d really hope that Obama declines as well and leaves Hillary alone responding to questions formulated by Dick Morris.

  63. 63.

    The Other Steve

    March 8, 2007 at 4:29 pm

    With Edwards out I’d really hope that Obama declines as well and leaves Hillary alone responding to questions formulated by Dick Morris.

    Dick Morris traveling to a state with legalized prostitution, and you don’t think he’s going to be busy sucking toes the Chicken Ranch?

    Although I guess he does need the money.

  64. 64.

    David Moisan

    March 8, 2007 at 8:44 pm

    I hate Fox News, but I have to think this was just a glitch. The CG operator probably prepared two graphics, one “guilty”, one “not guilty”. If he or she didn’t do it, then it was done by someone through the newsroom system (most likely.)

    The wrong one was picked, so someone at Fox has already picked up his or her last check and been escorted out.

    Believing this is a conspiracy is on the same level as thinking the “X” that appeared over Dick Cheney on CNN a few years ago was also deliberate. (It was a glitch, too and the tape operator was probably fired, too.)

Comments are closed.

Trackbacks

  1. Around The Sphere March 8, 2007 | The Moderate Voice says:
    March 8, 2007 at 6:44 am

    […] Fox News Is Always Fair And Balanced…or is it? Speaking Of Fox: Fox News is planning to host the first Democratic Presidential debate but one Presidential candidate agrees with bloggers and has said “no thanks” to the network of Bill and Sean and Brit. There are really several issues here: (a) whether Fox is capable of conducting a debate that isn’t geared to its largely-GOP viewership and (b) whether due to it being considered politically-tainted by many on the left and the middle it is the proper forum. But another issue is whether Fox can “win” on this one. Even if it holds the debate, its conduct in camera shots, moderator’s questions and tone of voice etc. will be scrutinized. Fox would have been wiser to bring in some groups on the left and center to conduct the debate with it. Meanwhile, there’s a larger, long-term danger: will GOPers refuse a debate if offered on MSNBC or CNN if some Demmies pull out of the Fox debate? Controversy Over Anti-War Demonstration: Do some people want to spray paint the Vietnam War Memorial? Read Smash HERE and HERE (Smash is in Washington these days). It’s Getting More And More Dangerous Out There: Jawa Report:“Two U.S. based Islamic websties have called on Muslims to kill the driver of a Georgia registered vehicle displaying an offensive bumper sticker.” Read the entire post. (Does this mean I’m in danger of being beaten up by a PTA because I have a “My Son Beat Up The Student Of The Month At Davis Street School” sticker on my car?) […]

  2. This is how balanced Fox is at Citizen Jake says:
    March 8, 2007 at 10:36 am

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