Stealing from Bill Maher, I have a new rule:
“Anyone outraged by Don Imus’s remarks is forbidden to link approvingly to Al Sharpton’s role in this matter.”
Period. And no, that is not excusing Imus.
I lived in Poughkeepsie in 1988-1989.
*** Update ***
And in case you are confused, while this was originally about some tasteless racist remarks, this is now all about raw political power:
Imus, who has made a career of cranky insults in the morning, was fighting for his job following the joke that by his own admission went “way too far.” He continued through the day Monday, both on his show and Sharpton’s.
The Rev. Jesse Jackson, who marched with about 50 protesters Monday outside NBC offices in Chicago, said Imus’ suspensions will not halt the protests.
“This is a two-week cooling off period,” Jackson said. “It does not challenge the character of the show, its political impact, or the impact that these comments have had on our society.”
Prediction:
Imus survives unless he keeps talking the next two weeks. His main problem is that he has no real base of support- he has spent the last few years on the right side of the war issue and alienated many conservatives, he was on the right side of Walter Reed, and has been a vocal supporter/champion for a number of issues that have alienated him with many on the right. He has nowhere to go- the left think he is an icon of the right and think they can get a scalp, the right feels like he betrayed them and is happy to see him hurt.
And really, he is just a cranky old radio jock who has been giving people what they want for years. Anyone who is remotely surprised or shocked that he said this about the Rutgers basketball team has CLEARLY not watched or listened to his radio show in the past ten years. In one sense, it seems almost unfair- it is like spanking your dog after he chewed up the 200th pair of shoes. While I am sure that he now understands the remarks were inappropriate, he probably feels blindsided and shocked by all the outrage directed at him.
Take that for what you will.
Geek, Esq.
Amen. Sharpton is scum.
Zifnab
“Let a man be judged not by the color of his skin, but the content of his character.”
Unfortunately, Sharpen lacks the latter.
Mr Furious
Yep. I was in College a little ways down the Hudson during that period.
As for Imus, I’m not reallly sure why this comment is any worse than declaring the Venus and Serena Williams belong in National Geographic. He’s a scumbag too, way more offensive in my mind than a guy like Howard Stern, because he operates under some supposed aura of legitimacy.
To say nothing of the fact that he’s not even funny.
Paul L.
One upside to the Imus quote.
It showed Keith Olbermann to be a hypocrite who will “speak truth to power” unless the power is NBC.
Standard 1:
Bill O’Reilly should criticize the Fox network over the O.J. Simpson book and tv deal.
Standard 2:
Keith Olbermann will not comment on Imus quote.
Paul L.
Hear the hypocrisy from Keith himself.
Olbypocrisy Confirmed: By Olby!
Mean Gene
It does show how effed up our society is, when a total scumbag can build this huge media platform, and when he’s finally called to account and decides to make some manner of apology…he goes on some other scumbag’s huge media platform to do so. To be a decent human being means you must flit on the fringes of the media. Scumbags only, please.
Andrew
OMG A RACIST OLD FUCK HEAD SAID SOMETHING RACIST!!!!
(1) Why is anyone surprised?
(2) Why is this news?
(3) A rhetorical question: What the fuck is wrong with the media?
Jake
Imus and Sharpton – two over rated, over the hill, loud tedious arseholes who deserve one another.
John, why were you in Po-town?
Please say you weren’t one of the guys I saw smoking crack in the door way of abandoned buildings.
Cyrus
Cyrus’ rule: any man who wears a cowboy hat but does not work with horses for a living is a deeply suspicious character. Men who are unwilling to change careers have the alternate option of growing a handlebar mustache, because if someone really, really wants to look like either Mark Twain or one of the Village People, who am I to argue.
ThymeZone
Well, as near as I can tell, the top post to this thread is basically this:
Imus! Sharpton! { Beavis and Butthead snickering }
Snark! (Sheehan wasn’t available today, apparently).
Well, isn’t that fine. Is there a point?
What’s the point of the Imus controversy? I happen to think there is one, but why waste it on a thread that is basically a graffiti tag on a billboard?
Oh … I know. The claim will be made that it’s to promote discussion of the Imus controversy.
Ah. Well, that explains the articulate and intelligent thought that was put into the top post.
Okay, let’s have a “discussion.”
Imus is to radio propriety as a blog that allows Darrell to post (and smacks people for treating him like the crap he is) is to ________.
Discuss!
Rome Again
Thank you John for giving me a bit of perspective and a cup of humility today… for some reason, I was under the impression you were only a West Virginian. I never considered that you might have a faceted life. Maybe that’s because you serve in only one capacity in my life, that of blog-owner. I must consider that, as I’ve lived in several places, perhaps you have too.
ThymeZone
The question before the court of world opinion is not about the propriety of his remark.
It’s about what should happen happen next.
If Darrell can post here, can’t Imus have a show?
What’s the difference?
zzyzx
Poughkeepsie? Really? I was at Bard at the time. In fact I saw my first Phish show in the fall of 1989 at the Chance.
Zifnab
Damnit! I had this one on the SATs…
John Cole
And TZ tries to queer another thread with his obsession with Darrell, and then act like avictim when I call him on it.
I haven’t seen Darrell in a few weeks, but it sure looks likeyou miss him. If you ask me, you are no better than the folks who watch Imus/Limbaugh/Stern every day and then bitch about how outrageous they are.
Rome Again
No wonder you have two helpers, you obviously don’t know what’s going on in your own blog. Darrell is not missed, he was posting here last night, and in very rare form, shooting off missives right and left, and using words Tim had to wipe off the thread.
John Cole
Yeah, I just checked that thread.
I don’t know why you all feed him. Just ignore him.
ThymeZone
Well in this context, all due respect, I think we ignore you. You obviously are never going to say an honest word on this subject.
My question is, what is the difference between Darrell posting here, and Imus’ radio show?
If one is okay, then is not the other? And, or course, vice versa.
Can anyone explain to me why they are not the same exact thing? Sure, the BJ audience is miniscule compared to Imus’ audience. But I don’t think that’s relevant here, is it?
Are we going to discuss this, or is John just going to do his patented haughty slapdown and walk away and nobody is going to speak up?
ThymeZone
I am not acting like a victim, you horse’s ass. I am trying to do you a favor that you are too fucking stubborn to see obejctively.
Fuck you and your stupid remark.
Jake
Next stop Sirius/XM radio.
As for whether Imus does/might feel suprised by the reaction…. I doubt it. He’s been around way too long. If he is baffled…wah! I feel no sympathy for shock jocks who are shocked by the response to their outrageous remarks. If you want to do controversial, do controversial. But be prepared for people to get pissed.
Rome Again
John, can I ask you a question:
Would you rather that anyone can get away with anything because we just aren’t supposed to answer? He is over the top, using language that was very nasty, and we’re the ones who are supposed to sit back and let it slide?
Have you ever heard of community policing? Social mores? Aren’t we as BJ-blog-citizens allowed to do SOMETHING when we see language like what was wiped?
I got an idea, let’s have an official ignore Darrell contest, and see who can do it the longest… I’ll join in, since YOU obviously already started. That would be okay if you were just a blog citizen… but…. oh that’s right, you’re NOT!
ThymeZone
Heh. This may be the most telling statement ever on this subject.
You wouldn’t even know he was here if we didn’t tell you.
We pay more attention to the place than you do.
Go ahead, yell at me again.
ThymeZone
Yeah, we’ll ignore Darrell, until he commits the one unpardonable sin around here: Pissing off John.
Then we’ll see if he is ignored.
VidaLoca
My prediction: first, follow the money.
Imus is paid rather handsomely by (at least) two prominent media outlets to deliver a large cohort of room-temperature IQ’s to a set of advertisers. As long as he can continue to do this, he will continue to be paid. Two things can change this equation:
1. The room-temperature IQs decide to quit listening to his shows. This is not likely to happen as a result of the current imbroglio because Imus’ current statements are not that different from his previous statements. IOW the room-temperature IQs tune in for his racist schtick. That’s one of the things a “shock jock” is all about, it’s part of the job description.
2. The advertisers come to see him as radioactive and refuse to continue to underwrite him. They’re down for a little shock as long as it keeps the audience numbers up but they don’t want the downside exposure that comes with being associated with someone who’s seen as a raving bigot.
Imus’ two-week vacation (and his national apology tour) are in his best interests; they allow the situation to cool off and public attention to come to fall on the next missing white girl. Then Phase Two: The Rehabilitation will begin.
w/r/t Sharpton, and J. Jackson it’s all the same old dance again. The question is, how much pull they have in the NY media market, and how much respect (that is, fear) they get from the advertisers. My guess: not enough.
But if Rutgers University and the Rutgers women’s basketball team toss Imus the anchor, he’ll be in a world of hurt that two weeks’ vacation won’t fix.
ThymeZone
And last but not least, this not “queering” the thread.
Darrell and BJ are EXACTLY the same “issue” as Imus and MSNBC.
The only difference is, they’re bigger.
Otherwise it’s exactly the same thing. It’s somebody being inappropriate and getting away with it because it is expedient to let him get away with it.
THAT IS THE FUCKING TOPIC, it’s not off topic.
Rome Again
John, I do not go to political blogs to ignore righties, gimme a break… why do you have a blog if we should just ignore those who think different from ourselves? Is it because Darrell is annoying? Well STF what? He still believes differently than I do, and if I don’t speak up about where I believe he is mistaken, your pary will be owned by folks like him for a long time.
You just don’t get it. Why have a blog if we should just ignore those who we don’t agree with?
Zifnab
*rolls eyes*
Just give it a rest. The verdict came down on this over a year ago and all of John’s liberal conversions aren’t going to make him change his intensely non-partisan “no-banning” policy. Free speech and all that. If everyone would stop responding to Darrell’s trash, he’d just be one more voice in the echo chamber.
I mean, no one has any trouble tuning out Paul L. Just treat Darrell like Paul L. Problem solved.
ThymeZone
Good question.
And, why have an MSNBC if we are just going to broadcast stuff that doesn’t offend anyone?
There are people out there who are going to call fantastic student athletes shitty names so as to get themselves attention.
So? Are we going to pretend that these people don’t exist? Don’t they deserve a voice, and a network?
Is everything to be just turned into an echo chamber?
Isn’t Imus rage, and Darrell rage, just about Political Correctness, anyway?
So many questions.
ThymeZone
Sure. Brilliant answer.
Andrew
Has anyone seen Don Imus, Darrell, and ThymeZone together at the same time? Hmmmm??!?? Very suspicious.
ThymeZone
Alright, that tears it. To suggest that I would wear that stupid hat …..
We are no longer speaking.
John Cole
1.) You obnoxious asshole, you have had this coming for a long time, so I don’t want to hear any of your victim bullshit after I am done unloading on you.
2.) We have an open comments policy. People can pretty much say whatever the hell they want. Not because it is expedient, but because that is the policy I want. I want people to be able to say whatever they want without fear of being banned. I presumed most people were adults, and would ignore or refute people who are being scum. Clearly, I overestimated your capacity to do both almost as much as I overestimated your ability to be an adult.
3.) I have gone through great pains to make sure the comments policy stays that way, to include being harassed for a solid month and having to obtain legal representation because someone was threatening to sue me because of what SOMEONE ELSE said to THEM in thecomments section. You know what I told them?
“The door is that way.”
The same goes for you. If you are so fucking bent out of shape by what that idiot asshole Darrell says, you know how to leave the website. I manage to ignore him.
4.) The policy will remain that way. Not because I am lazy, not because it is expedient, but because I think it is the right policy. It is principle for me. If people get over the line with sexist and racist crap that I refuse to tolerate, I will ban them.
5.) This is not your website. While I value the contribution of all commenters (some, obviously, more than others), the commenters do not set the rules. You do not set the rules. If that upsets you- you know where the door is.
So listen up, PPGAZ. You know the comments policy. Unless Darrell steps way the fuck out of line, he is here to stay. Same goes for everyone, and I will defend all of you equally.
The other side of that coin is that you have to put up with stuff that clearly upsets your delicate sensibilities. But that is just it- you have to deal with it. I have made my position clear, and I am sick and tired of you impugning my integrity, attacking me, claiming I don’t give a shit about things that go on in my website. I do.
I have decided that while certain things upset me, shutting people up, banning people, etc. are not the way to go with this medium. If you can’t deal with that, you have two options:
STFU or GTFO.
I hope you understand this is my last word on this issue. I will not address this again. I hope we are clear.
Fruitbat
zzyzx asided:
From such humble beginnings, you became a Bard legend, sir. I fondly recall those intramural sports teams you cofounded. And the opponents that were duly confounded.
ThymeZone
Of course you do, and how nice for you! Except when he goes at you the way he goes at everyone else, then you don’t, so don’t feed me that bullshit.
Your position has always been clear, John. Did you think clarity was the issue?
No, the issue is YOU ARE BEING A JERK by letting that asshole post here and making us deal with him, and then yelling at us for the way we do it. And reacting to him like we do when he pisses you off, but ignoring it the rest of the time.
I am right about this, you are wrong, and I hope we are clear on that. If not, I don’t give a shit. I am going to say what I think the truth is whether you like it or not unless you ban me for doing it.
So get used to it.
VidaLoca
John,
The (very) few times I’ve commented on this topic, I’ve taken the contrarian position: arguing against banning Darrell. My reasoning is that a blog (unlike, to address TZ’s point, a radio show) is a community; as a commuunity we operate under a set of rules you’ve created for participation; Darrell doesn’t (usually) violate those rules(1).
That said, Rome makes a valid point:
Why not just ignore the whole damn blog entirely? The cost/benefit of the food fights is way out of line. It’s like trying to play baseball without umpires: much screaming, little productive accomplishment.
(1) Last night’s thread looks like an exception. Several people could have been banned out of that one.
ThymeZone
Translation: How dare you criticize me!
The nerve!
Jesus H. Christ, do you even see how ridiculous you are being on this subject?
No, obviously not, I am wasting my time.
If you are so proud of “your website” maybe you should read the previous night’s traffic before you start posting in the morning? Then you’d know that your buddy Darrell left another steaming pile for your guests overnight.
Punchy
Shorter Cole: That Sharpton…silly Negro…
Steven Taylor
Agreed on Sharpton–his objections in such matter (ok, basically all matters) is hard to take seriously.
In regards to Imus: what I find interesting here is that he is being defended by certain segments of the elite media who are normally considered (or are self-identified) as liberals (e.g., Howard Fineman, Oliphant, and David Gregory–although Dibgy noted Armstrong Williams, a conservative, as well).
I am passingly familiar with Imus and his shtick, so was hardly shocked at his statements. However, I have never thought of Imus as right-wing, so I have to wonder if this is, indeed, accurate: “the left think he is an icon of the right and think they can get a scalp, the right feels like he betrayed them and is happy to see him hurt.”
Rome Again
Personally, I just think he’s boring.
ThymeZone
Really? Can you state them? Can you show how they are enforced?
Use Darrell as your example, please. The guy does nothing but shit continuously on everyone here. Is that within the “rules” you imagine?
Because if it is, then tell John Cole to shut up and stop criticizing me, he is violating his own fucking rule.
Rome Again
Whoops, sorry. something in my pasting queue screwed up… that blockquote should have been:
That other thing was from another thread, sorry.
betamu
Thyme, I don’t see that “Darrell rage” and “Imus rage” as similar. Not trying to be difficult, just responding to your comment.
I dont respond to anything Darrell says and usually avoid the thread altogether because it always seems to veer from the topic and into other territory.
But I am interested in Americans’ responses to the issue surrounding what was said by Mr. Imus and company. As a gay liberal, I guess I am supposed to be totally outraged and support asking for Imus’s head.
I just can’t do it. I have listened to him before and do not care for the media of “talk show”, so what he says never makes it to my ears unless some controversy erupts. I know that there have been several of these, but I always end up with the attitude of “there’s nothing to see here…move on”. The reason I feel this way is that there is an audience for his show, obviously and I know folks that seem to posses a mindset similar to Imus’s. Let him serve up his apologies to the folks offended and then let him get on with it. If Americans REALLY find his remarks offsive, we will let him know it by no longer listening and the show will die.
More to say perhaps but got to get back to work!
Paul L.
You are ignoring me?
I just figured you guys had no defense for the hypocrisy of your hero Keith Olbermann.
Daniel DiRito
See a tongue-in-cheek visual of Imus and his newfound buddy, Michael Richards, hanging out and counting sheep…here:
http://www.thoughttheater.com
ThymeZone
A very interesting and thought-provoking post.
I pretty much agree with your observations, and in fact, if I were just being the Man on the Street, I’d say that there is an audience for Darrell’s obnoxious crap just as there is for Imus’ obnoxious “humor” (I don’t find him particularly funny).
All that said, I’d add that the issue here at BJ is a little more complicated, and has to do with the true nature of the relationship between the proprietor(s) and the audience. It’s a relatively new medium, and that true nature is still working itself out.
LBNL I’d say there is more going on here than meets the eye. So just take that for what it’s worth!
Really last, you should post here more often!
Scruffy McSnufflepuss
If it makes you feel any better, Paul, I don’t ignore you.
But I do think you’re probably Darrell. That “truth to power” quip you made was a big tip-off. You must be part of the Darrell spoof-team. Won’t the real wingnuts here please stand up?
It all reminds me of this one “Far Side” comic I saw where a field full of “sheep” is really all wolves’ in sheeps’ clothing, and two of the wolves are standing up taking off their sheep outfits asking, “Hey! Aren’t any of you guys really sheep?” Sorry I can’t find it for you, it’s hard to find Far Side archives online. Anyway, that’s the way I feel about conservatives on this blog.
Zifnab
I always heard it was
Maybe I should put my shirt back on.
Myrtle Parker
WTF John!!
Boggles the mind you could feel sympathy for _IMUS_ in this situation. I mean, completely out of the blue he calls some young women he has never met ‘nappy headed hos’ because they had the gal to be good at their sport. And you feel sorry for Imus? WTF?
These poor old white guys are sooooo put upon because decent society doesn’t want them to degrade and humiliate complete strangers for nothing more than their gender and race. I feel so #&#(*&% sorry for their poor old white asses.
Rome Again
So the fact that Darrell is on a thread affects your enjoyment of it (and probably one with me on it too, I can see how that also could be the case). I think management should take this into consideration. The blog is less enjoyable for certain posters (like betamu) when Darrell is on a thread.
ThymeZone
Actually? The TTP quip came, in my experience, originally from John, during a flame war in 2005.
Fact is, back during those transition days here the flame wars were much more frequent and heated. They’ve dropped off probably 80-90% by unscientific measurement.
my recollection is that John was flaming me for doing Truth to Power over something or other, and Darrell picked up on it. Darrell, assuming he is a real person (a thing of which I am not convinced one way or the other) likes to pick up on the proprietors’ stuff to make himself seem more “acceptable” or something, or maybe he just thinks it’s cute, but anyway, I always thought it came from John via Darrell.
Just a little item for the BJ historians to take note of.
Scruffy McSnufflepuss
He’s probably a class project or something.
I’m not saying that just to piss John off or anything, but it’s really what I think. No human could withstand the constant pummeling Darrell gets on this blog unless the pummeling was what they were there to provoke. Plus, I find it highly suspect that none of John’s students ever post here. If I were in John’s class, I’d post here every day, bringing up classroom issues and topics I hadn’t had the chance to discuss with him in the classroom.
I find it highly unlikely that not a one of John’s students is as obnoxious as I am, so I’m forced to conclude that there must be a good reason why we don’t hear from them. He’s the extra credit assignment for the class: “Write a decent Darrell rant, lure the liberals in, and you get bonus points for obfuscation!” That also explains why last night Darrell was on his anti-Arab, racist trend, whereas other nights he’s a hail-fellow, well-met, let’s-go-grab-a-beer-sometime poster. Either students are writing the part, or Darrell’s got 10 different personalities.
Scruffy McSnufflepuss
Really? That was before my time here.
Hard to believe. Were they as racially-charged, then?
This Darrell person/spoof/whatever seems to have a real problem with Arabs.
I remember one time a month or two ago where John threatened to ban Darrell if Darrell used the expression “truth to power” against him one more time. I had no idea this was the history of it.
Regardless, that still means Paul L. is either written by one of them, or takes cues from one of them.
ThymeZone
Well, they were charged with everything, fueled by visceral hatreds between the dominant righties, and the latecomer lefties who were then trying to establish a foothold here.
It was raw and bloody on a daily basis. What passes between me and John, for example, today, as compared to then, makes today look like Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood by comparison. It was a bloodbath back then.
demimondian
You just figured that out? Sheesh, Paul! Of course we’re ignoring you.
When you contribute interesting things, we pay attention; the rest of the time, it’s not worth the bother. If you contribute interesting stuff and are engaged, you engage in return. That’s how all of us are treated.
John Cole
I think you are confusing empathy and sympathy. I have no sympathy for him whatsoever. He made his bed, he can lie in it. He has made a lot of money making borderline racist statements and being intentionally “edgy” for years- walking a thin line which I think he frequently stepped over. I am surprised this did not happen at least once a week for the past ten years, to be honest. Anyone who has watched even one of McGuerk’s Cardinal pieces would think that.
So while I have no sympathy, I am a little empathetic to the man- as far as he is concerned, he has been doing the same thing for years- why is he all of a sudden being yelled at and excoriated for it? Hence, the dog example. Your dog chews 199 pairs of shoes, and no real fuss is raised or it appears the dog is rewarded for the behavior. Then, on the 200th pair of shoes, you beat the hell out of the dog. You can’t help but think the dog has a right to be confused.
Seriously- how is calling the Rutgers basketball team any worse than calling Gwen Ifill (pretty much the only reason to watch the Newshour anymore) a cleaning lady? Or any of the thousands of other offensive/edgy things that have been said on the show over the past ten-fifteen years.
Short answer- it isn’t.
p.lukasiak
Thank you John for giving me a bit of perspective and a cup of humility today… for some reason, I was under the impression you were only a West Virginian. I never considered that you might have a faceted life. Maybe that’s because you serve in only one capacity in my life, that of blog-owner. I must consider that, as I’ve lived in several places, perhaps you have too.
actually, this might explain why John posts so much drivel about ‘the left’. Overexposure to Al Sharpton will do that to a person….
what John should remember is that nobody on “the left” (or in the civil rights movement) took Sharpton seriously…. he was a nobody who latched on to the Tawana Brawley story and wound up being discredited by it — but who was able to maintain his visibility solely because the right wing media saw him as a great way to discredit the civil rights community in general.
I mean, there are dozens upon dozens of legitimate black leaders that are capable of commenting on civil rights controversies — but somehow or other Al Sharpton is always being quoted? That isn’t happening because those who support Sharpton consider him a legitimate spokesman….
(and you don’t think that Imus knew exactly what he was doing by going on Sharpton’s show to issue another apology? you don’t think that Imus realized that saps like YOU would immediately jump on the “Sharpton” angle as a way of distracting from the real story here?)
ThymeZone
True.
So, should he be fired? Suspended? What should the response be?
VidaLoca
TZ —
Come on… we’ve both been around here long enough to know that that’s a purely rhetorical question.
The word that comes to mind is “loosely”. And more in the breach than the observance. That said, it’s John’s blog. We’re all just guests here. Any time we want, we can go take a walk around outside.
Look, Darrell’s a pill. He takes up more than his share of bandwidth and it’s almost all (with the exception of some of his input on the home mortgage thread a couple of weeks ago) a tremendous waste. Most days, and most of the time recently, I just lurk here rather than comment: really, what’s the point? Screaming at him takes up more bandwidth than he takes up on his own, and serves no more purpose; his credibility is so low that he’s become a parody of himself which is why the spoofs feed on him so freely.
The person who’s got it figured out around here, actually, is demi: if Darrell’s on a thread, and doing his usual, allow 2 sharp, directed slapdowns. Then talk to other people. If no other people are around, pack it in for the night.
Bubblegum Tate
Well, sort of. I listened to Imus in the early 1990s–probably from about 1992-1994–but back then, he wasn’t syndicated nationwide and he didn’t have a TV simulcast. He just did the morning show on WFAN–AM radio, for fuck’s sake. And back then, he was actually pretty funny. Or rather, Bernard McGuirk, Charles McCord (who was often the “straight man” in all the shenanigans, but actually wrote a lot of the comedy sketches), and Mike Breen were funny, and Imus joined in.
But then he started to get picked up for syndication, and he picked up a rather transparent desire to be seen as some sort of power broker. At first, the power broker schtick had some funny moments. Then it just got lame. By the middle of ’94, he had pretty much lost it (Mike Breen was still dryly hilarious, though).
ThymeZone
A little off the mark, p.
Sharpton has been all over the cable outlets and Today Show and …. everywhere … on this thing. It’s not being a “sap” to take note of the fact that Sharpton has made himself the self-appointed representative of truth and justice here. And successfully so, up to this point.
mrmobi
If I’m getting what you’re saying here, John, you think Imus should be forgiven for his racist and sexist remarks because he’s old? Shit, I’m old, and I didn’t know that I could make such remarks just because of that. Good to know.
Unfortunately, I have seen some of his televised program on MSNBC. I don’t know if it is funnier on the radio, but the hat is funny, the fake rancher stuff is funny, and the other “personalities” who appear are even nastier than he is. All things considered, it’s an awful show, but it’s the go-to place if you want to hear the junior Senator from New York called “satan.”
I guess it is unfair to punish him for these remarks, when he’s been doing the same for years. I feel his pain. However, calling a bunch of over-achieving young black women, who have played by the rules, excelled at academics and risen to the top of their sport, “nappy-headed hos,” somehow that doesn’t make it to “unfair?” Sheesh!
As far as “take that for what you will.” I take it that your dislike for Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson trumps your ability to see what a vile and demeaning set of remarks these really were. You need to tune up your outrage meter, John. This kind of behavior does not encourage good citizenship.
Imus is no different than Coulter, Limbaugh, and other purveyors of hatred, he’s just not as good at it, and he’s old, and crabby. I’m definitely going to be using that excuse in the future.
ThymeZone
Sure, but it needs answering, don’t you think?
What are these “rules?”
If we can’t articulate them and show their effects … then they are sort of mythical.
yertle
As a longtime lurker, I’ll just add fuel to the fire by saying I find TZ’s hysteric fueled multi-post borderline insane rants as annoying as Darrel. Maybe more so. His/her constant use of profanity is also a bit annoying. TZ – shut the fuck up.
ThymeZone
Fuck you very much!
Rome Again
or good blog management either, for that matter.
p.lukasiak
you are making my other point here …. Sharpton isn’t ‘self-appointed’, he’s now mainstream-media annointed — and that’s because the right-wing media (for instance, the New York Post) kept him ‘famous’ for so long.
There is really no good reason to go to Al Sharpton for a quote about anything when there are so many other far more legitimate and credible African-Americans who can speak on these kinds of issues. So why (besides the fact that he’s located in NYC and spends virtually all his time seeking out face-time in the media) does he get so much exposure?
That being said, there is a difference between having Al Sharpton “commenting” on the story, and doing what Imus did — making Al Sharpton a critical and necessary part of the story by going on Sharpton’s radio show. Imus knows that by going on Sharpton he FORCES the “discredited black guy” into the debate about his discrediting…
VidaLoca
The dog here is suffering from a paradigm shift. Sucks to be the dog. He was well compensated for all those years of chewing on shoes though. Worst case, he’ll probably get a gig on Sirius; he won’t be put to sleep.
What I think changed is that Imus did something that he’s gotten away with in the past — but he did it in the context of somebody (who, originally) saying, “look, we don’t have to put up with this shit any more, let’s see if we can make this bastard bleed for this”. And that’s the paradigm shift: in the past such an attempt might have failed; this time it might succeed.
Some Other Brian Guy
Al Roker of all people has an op-ed over at msnbc.
Really, I think at the root of this is not politics, but the simple fact that Don Imus just isn’t funny. Maybe he was at one time, but not now. It’s time for him to go into retirement and bring in some fresh blood.
As al roker says…
Imus represents a generation of radio that is out of touch today, and needs to just go away.
MNPundit
All this says is that Imus should have been gone 10 years ago. I’m not going to penalize people for only waking up NOW to what a bastard Imus is.
If you’re SHOCKED by the remarks is one thing. If you’re OUTRAGED is something else.
Some Other Brian Guy
Ohwell. He was paid well for chewing on shoes, but the fact is it’s no longer funny.
Rome Again
You’d think that was obvious, hmmmmm.
The Other Steve
What Some Other Brian Guy said. He speaks for me. ;-)
Paul L.
Dan Abrams Welcomes All Attacks on Don Imus, Except From Fox News
David
Precisely. He’s a troll, which makes getting a reaction the entire point of what he. Snark at him if you must, but don’t get actively angry or it just encourages the whole downward spiral.
Ban him and other usernames or spoofers will fill the same role; the only workable solution is to give him no one to talk to but himself. If he insists on keeping that up…well, electrons are cheap. He can use as many as he wants. As long as he’s not affecting the conversation, who cares?
mrmobi
One other thing, John.
I know that the rules are different in entertainment. However, in most large American corporations and probably even some smaller companies, what Imus said would result in a dismissal.
NBC, not so much.
Punchy
Looks like TZ is going out with a bang today. Damn.
Shorter Cole’s world–“cleaning lady” =’s “jigaboo”. By the way, what’s a “racial slur”?
Even shorter Cole–Ah!! 85 wrongs eventually make a right, right? Right!!
John Cole
Punchy- if you can;t figure out the racist subtext to Imus’s cleaning lady/Ifill remark, then you probably should just stop posting here on this thread.
As to what to do with Imus, if I were NBC I would cut my losses immediately. They made their money on him for years, they will not lose a significant amount of viewership, and they have far more to lose by keeping him on than by cutting him.
Rome Again
Well, I certainly agree with that, everytime I turn on MSNBC and Imus is on, I immediately click over to another channel.
ThymeZone
Well yes, but these two are peas in a pod. Men who have made industries out of themselves by being divisive, a la Limbaugh, a la Coulter, etc.
They really need each other in times like these. The reasonable people aren’t going to run to the cameras and microphones about it. Then you have the Tucker Carlsons and those types trying to cash in on the ruckus.
I’ll refrain from saying that John Cole just wants to get his share of the ruckus. In fact, I don’t think that’s the case, but the blog is about Hot Air and he’s a communications guy, he pretty much has to mention it.
So that’s all I was saying.
Rome Again
Is that your “other” brother, TOS?
ThymeZone
Irony is now officially dead. I mean, stone cold dead, and embalmed, and dressed up for the funeral.
The wake is over and the mourners have gone home.
Rome Again
Touche`
John Cole
I am not sure how irony is dead- only a naive fool would think that NBC is not doing what they are doing for purely business reasons. Thus, if I were NBC, I would follow the course that best helps my business. It is, after all, wy he was still there in the first place.
You can bitch and moan about whether that is right or not in the moral or ethical sense.
Rome Again
He was comparing it to your blog, John. You want Imus gone, saying he’s past his prime and his show doesn’t do anything to contribute to debate (in fact, you said “they would lose far more by keeping him than by cutting him”)… yet, you refuse to see this in your own blog. THAT is irony.
ThymeZone
Well, I was kind of making a slightly different point here today, but …. obviously, I have again fallen short.
Therefore I will kill myself, and leave a long note blaming you entirely.
Still my favorite blog, John. So you win.
Goodbye, cruel world.
ThymeZone
I mean it. Mother of mercy, this is the end of Rico.
Chad N. Freude
Paul L not being ignored: Keith Olbermann is a hypocrite and this proves it. Well, I took the trouble to listen to clip #2, and I actually heard Olbermann say that he doesn’t feel he can criticize the network that employs him and that he knows it’s inconsistent with his position on other commentators and their networks. He doesn’t make any claims to righteousness and says it’s a hard problem to deal with. If you see this as hypocrisy, then you see it as hypocrisy. I’m not pleased by his position, but at least he’s not hypocritically claiming moral superiority or hiding the reason for his failure to criticize Imus.
John Cole
My blog is not a publicly traded business, and despite the Pajamas Media conspiracy theories, I am really accountable to no one.
Additionally, I run under the basic assumption that you are smarter than the average MSNBC viewer and can learn to ignore Darrell.
Look- I used to defend Darrell when I thought he was being honest. In the past few months I have grown to see him as a bitter dead-ender, someone who is mean-spirited and hostile to those who disagree with him, and someone who will refuse to alter his beliefs regardless what evidence he is presented. At the same time, I see him getting as good as he gives in many cases.
And I concur that much of the time he is a colossal pain in the ass. But I have learned to ignore him, and I don’t want to change the basic nature of this blog (a free-wheeling, no holds barred exchange) just to accomodate a few people who can not tolerate an inconsequential idiot.
And yes- there are a few things that set me off:
1.) The ‘last honest conservative’ dribble from Darrell.
2.) The truth to power bullshit from whomever.
3.) Attempts to bully me to change a longstanding comment policy.
Pb
Nice. If you don’t like John’s policy of not shutting people up or banning them, then… shut up about it or go ban yourself?
Yeah, the only thing off limits here is disagreeing with John’s policy–but feel free to talk about his mother. Or not. Oh, and P.S.–don’t mention Jeff Goldstein either.
Oh, and:
Where the fuck have you been? Oh, right–busy bashing ThymeZone for actually reading what gets posted on your website. The crazy abusive absentee landlord returns. Keep it up John, and in a few years your posts will be indistinguishable from Don Surber’s. That is, if Darrell isn’t officially running the site by then, instead of his current de facto role of ruining the site.
Mr Furious
One way it is diffferent…Gwen Ifel, the Williams sisters and others that have borne the same racist BS in the past are more or less public figures. Doesn’t make it right, but the target is different when it is essentially innocent, anonymous students. Imus is pickiing on somebody much smalller than him this time.
Just a thought.
Punchy
There’s a world of difference, John, between implicit and explicit connotations. Yeah, the cleaning lady comment is implicitly offensive, but I’m quite sure the AA community feels the no-subtext-needed “jigaboo” ref is roughy 1,274 times worse. To even attempt to compare the two is wrong on many levels.
Pb
And as for Olbermann Watch–didn’t they shut down? Did they lie about their “goodbye cruel world” farewell too?
Chad N. Freude
In re Darrell:
Darrell is actually capable of civil exchanges without foul language. On another thread, I wanted to hear what he had to say and refused to join the bear-baiting and addressed him with the small amount of civility I can muster with him. He calmed down and we actually had a conversation about whatever the topic was. He was, of course, dead wrong.
He certainly makes himself a figure of fun and invites hostility, but I don’t know what the commenters here get out of all the middle school shit-slinging. It’s not funny, it’s not amusing, it’s not entertaining, and it creates a lot of noise that turns the BJ public square into plaza full of pigeon droppings.
Rome Again
Well, sure… unless you consider a middle easterner to be a human being, then you’re lowlife filth, like me. :)
HyperIon
regarding the flame posts:
and long time readers here can attest that the originality has fallen by at least the same measure.
i don’t listen to imus. he never appealed to me and never will. but if i did, i don’t think i’d be going there for the originality. (that old dog cannot be taught new tricks, to stick with Cole’s original metaphor.)
i’m really sick of darrell. it’s the same stuff over and over. i’m really sick of commenters who respond to darrell. their schtick is just as repetitive. it was all very amusing the first 47 times i read it but not so much now.
i gotta confess…this site is much less interesting to me now than previously. and it isn’t just darrell. i’m looking for substance. these virtual food fights no longer amuse.
Chad N. Freude
Apparently not.
Chad N. Freude
They can if they’re handled with wit and finesse. And a less limited vocabulary. But I agree with you, I want to talk politics and social non-science. Even with Darrell (it can be done!).
Face
I’ve heard this EXACT line before…in an adult film, no less.
ThymeZone
ANAICT, you are saying that it was better when there were more flame wars because … there was more originality.
Uh huh. And so here is Darrell, doing the same crummy schtick he did two years ago, and ….. we are supposed to be more original in our responses to him?
I’m not sure anyone has thought this through.
And the think about Darrell isn’t “foul language.” With the exception of stuff like his meltdown last night, neither Darrell nor I nor anyone else around here that I know of has ever used a word that John Cole has not used here first.
It isn’t about “foul” language. It’s about the fact that Darrell cannot make a post without deliberately shitting on the intelligence and integrity of every liberal poster here who disagrees with him even before he has said anything.
EVERY DAMNED TIME. THAT is the problem with Darrell. That, and only that. I don’t give a rat’s ass about his “foul language” or anyone else’s language.
The material is either relevant, or funny, or snarky, or something … or it isn’t. And with Darrell, IT NEVER IS.
It’s always about us being dishonest, stupid, immoral. Every goddam thread, every goddam day.
If you are going to talk about the sumbitch, at least get the issue right. If you don’t want “foul language” here then impose a rule, make it clear, enforce it, and if you are John Cole, STOP USING IT.
That’s rhetorical. I am not in favor of any language restriction, but if there is going to be one, then start with the top, not with Darrell.
mrmobi
I agree, Chad, but not without heavy sarcasm. Some days he sounds like someone trying to kick crack.
In the time I’ve spent here, Darrell has made it pretty clear that he supports a xenophobic foreign policy somewhere to the right of Joe Stalin, complete with camps, torture, incineration of children, etc.
For Darrell, Bush is King and questioning the King is verboten.
So I call him Gruppenfuhrer. Walks like a Nazi, etc. I’ve tried ignoring him, but usually this group engages him as if he were actually reading and comprehending the comments. Sometimes it can be kind of interesting, simply because it is useful to see the kind of pathetic arguments the right comes up with to justify turning our democracy on its’ head.
But I usually boogie out when he jazzes up a thread. Thankfully, that seems to be happening less lately.
I relish the day when Democrats have a large majority in both houses and the Presidency, just to see him squirm. Guy with a name like yours should understand that.
John Cole
Just curious- how many comments in this thread have been by Darrell?
Yet, surprisingly, this thread has turned into an “All Darrell, All the time.”
And the same person who has done that will whinge incessantly that it is MY fault for not banning Darrell.
Face
Can Thymezone go a single post without a “Darrell” reference??
John Cole
No, and within and hour he will call you and me an asshole for noting that and for not banning Darrell, then he will go into a long diatribe about how much better this website would be if we did ban him, because somehow, magically, every thread becomes all about Darrell.
And he will do it with a straight face.
Rome Again
John, perhaps you should research the workings of your own blog each day before stating “I haven’t seen Darrell in weeks…” and then it won’t turn into a Darell-poo flinging thread. This started out not so much about Darrell as your own inattentiveness to him, and that’s what I’m focusing on.
John Cole
Rome-
As one of the people who comments here who I genuinely like, I am begging you:
JUST IGNORE DARRELL.
There are even programs you can add on to firefox that will automatically ignore him.
Rome Again
Within an hour? Bet me!
TZ is not as over the top as you try to make him out to be. More likely it’s your own little authoritarian inside you wanting to be in charge of something you don’t even keep up to date on. Perhaps if you did a better job of knowing what threads are creating a problem each day (that IS the responsibility of a blog-master, is it not?) then you wouldn’t get caught with your pants down, and THAT is what this is about, John.. you got caught with your pants down… again!
Rome Again
Gee, I was under the impression you hated me… I really would have liked to have heard this a long time ago. Now, it doesn’t really mean as much, sorry.
Chad N. Freude
That’s what makes it fun to talk to him.
That’s what makes it fun to talk to him.
Yes indeed! But that’s the future. In the now, we have a lot of other stuff to be joyful about now that the Ship of State has turned into an Aegean cruise ship, and I would prefer to see the blog used for that. I get no freude from the shit-slinging that’s been going on here.
Chad N. Freude
Nonono! Have fun beating him about the head and shoulders with reality. It’s good to have a
foolfoil.John Cole
I have been called a lot of things, all with differing degrees of accuracy, but authoritarian is one that is particularly laughable.
The Other Steve
What the hell fun would that be!?
David
Can these programs be tweaked to ignore all posts with the world “Darrell” in them? I’d like to see how many are left.
David
word. Not world. Although I suppose that is somewhat appropriate.
lard lad
Hate to say this, but I find all the grousing about Darrell to be even more boring than the man himself.
One man’s opinion.
mrmobi
If you use firefox, it’s called Greasemonkey, and it works very well, putting in whatever phrase you like instead of Darrell’s comments. It comes with the phrase “I Like Pie!” I have substituted “Achtung!”
The problem with it is, when everyone starts jumping on Gruppenfuhrer for his latest inanity, you have no idea what people are responding to. It’s easier just to leave it off.
Rome Again
Perhaps, but “It’s my blog” sure sounds a bit authoritarian to me. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, there isn’t… but if you want to claim it’s YOUR blog, don’t you think you should keep up a bit more with that’s going on with it? Otherwise, the blog truily belongs to the bully that you refuse to reign in.
db
Spot-on. I hate/despise Imus but occassionally have to listen so I can recharge my anger toward angry, old, conservative types; I have heard him say things much more outrageous than this. Frankly, the level of outrage over this Rutgers incident surprises me given everything else this guy has said in the past.
ThymeZone
Amazing. Really.
“Just ignore him.” A strategy that has never worked here, or anywhere else that I’ve seen an aggravation like Darrell.
You don’t ignore him. Unless we count the fact that you didn’t even know he’d been posting lately as “ignoring Darrell.”
This all boils down to one and only one thing: You stick us with this guy, and then yell at us for complaining about it. Then you tell us to ignore it “like you do,” only you don’t. { Twilight Zone music plays …. }
All so that you can come along and say “This is my website! How dare you tell me how to run it. Especially you, ppGaz, my favorite jackalope that I can blame this all on, and you longtime boil on my ass!”
How fucking tedious. Really. Why don’t you actually do something about the frigging guy? Wouldn’t that be easier?
Just sayin. Color me crazy for proposing the easy and obvious.
MSNBC should cut their losses, but BJ should be saddled with Darrell until Hell freezes over to prove that nobody can push you around.
Oooookay.
John Cole
The easiest solution is for you to ignore him. He hasn’t said ONE thing this entire thread, but you have been hyperventilating about him since the 8th comment.
Ignore him.
Really, I am beginning to think you are unbalanced.
ThymeZone
Two years of being called scum ,dishonest filth, immoral by this fuckhead a hundred goddam times a day, and we’re unbalanced.
Got it.
Fuck you.
Rome Again
This isn’t about Darrell, John, it’s about YOUR inattentiveness to him, as a member of blog-management.
Noam Sane
I find Sharpton to be morally challenged – seriously so. But it doesn’t matter what white people think of him. All that matters is how much currency he holds in the black community. Currently, it’s quite a bit.
This is a forest/trees scenario. If seriously want to engage the African-American (etc.) community, you need to come to terms with the fact that this is one of their leaders – period.
If you can’t, or don’t want to, then just keep on throwing rocks, but don’t expect any progress to be made.
John D.
Oh, bullshit. There are millions of Darrells on Usenet, and only one solution — a killfile. The pie filter/antitroll script here accomplishes the same thing. You don’t need to overstate the case.
HyperIon
i am saying that flame wars get boring, especially ones on a single topic that repeat themselves over and over. i am saying that just about everything gets boring when it is repeated over and over. i am saying that i am getting bored by the seemingly endless cycle of idiot darrell posts and responses to them.
AND i am now saying that YOUR rants against darrell add nothing positive to my experience here. note that i am not telling you to STFU. everybody gets to express an opinion here; Cole has decided this and it’s his blog. i do not respond to darrell; it’s a waste of time. however, i will respond to you because i think YOU can and do add value to this site..when you’re not dogging darrell about his latest idiocy.
so an honest question: do you ever consider how this dogging behavior impacts folks here besides darrell?
David
Two years of being called scum, dishonest filth, etc, etc, by the same person whom you know full well is full of shit, and you still care? Jesus (not your yard man) Christ, this is the Internet. It’s full of fuckheads. If you’re still letting them get under your skin after this long, then yeah, I’d say you’ve got a problem.
It’s not like he can actually punch you or interrupt you or even convince anybody with the brain of a muskrat that his positions are correct, whether or not anybody takes the time to refute him. Threads get derailed if and only if people actually decide his comments merit a response. If they don’t, he can talk all he wants and it won’t change jack shit.
Rome Again
Personally I don’t think TZ is allowing Darrell under his skin at all, but instead is upset at the lax management that allows crazy rightwingers like Darrell to say anything and then admonishes anyone who doesn’t like it. Darrell gets away with a heck of a lot more around here than anyone, including parroting talking points and versions of the truth that John no longer subscribes to, for some reason or another which I can’t fathom or explain. It would seem to me (and yes, I think TZ would agree) that the ones who should have that kind of freedom are the ones who are subscribe to truth instead of a patriotic/nationalistic ideology.
ThymeZone
No, really? I guess why that would explain why “I” am a persona, a theatrical character no different from Scruffy McCnufflepuss or the Easter Bunny, doing my schtick here for two years here?
Darrell does his. I do mine.
That’s all there is to it. It’s all theater. It’s amazing to me how many people here don’t get that.
Spoofs, personas … concern trolls, trolls. What Darrell actually is, you would have to ask him. I have no idea.
But I know what I am. If you want more information, you can always join the mailing list.
HyperIon
wow, Rome, where to start?
does daddy love him more than you?
then get your own blog and implement your own banning policy.
don’t break your arm patting yourself on the back.
oh, and, as i’m sure you’ve noticed, TZ CAN speak for himself.
ThymeZone
Good Christ, why would I care about that? Who here is looking out for my fucking experience here?
The blog is peopled with spoofs, trolls, and characters, as I said above. I don’t care about your experience here. At all, never have and never will. That is not my concern. And mine here should not be yours.
TZ is a persona. If you don’t like him, that’s fine with me. He isn’t here to be liked. He’s here to say what he thinks needs to be said. If you don’t like him, take John’s suggestion and get a browser that blocks him.
ThymeZone
No.
Ted
No. The script doesn’t have that ability.
ThymeZone
I don’t agree with that idiotic characterization, either.
First of all, and obviously to any but the most boneheaded observer, Darrell is the one who dogs. Darrell is the one who calls you and me and every person on earth who doesn’t share his narrow, bigoted, sociopathic fucking views things like scum, and filth, and immoral, and every name in the book, all the time, day in and day out. Because I respond to this, I am DOGGING him? Fuck that, that’s just bullshit.
But more to the point, my beef here is with Cole, not with Darrell. Examine last night’s Darrell meltdown. I stayed back, I didn’t provoke him, and I didn’t get into the middle of the meltdown. I was pretty much a minor player.
This ain’t about me. It’s about Cole, who does this to us, and Darrell, who is the instrument of it.
Get a frigging clue.
Rome Again
Daddy? I don’t have a daddy Hyperion, my daddy is dead. I am my own person and I’m merely saying that John doesn’t police Darrell, he polices us instead.
Perhaps one day I will.
(Sorry, I misspelled a word, do I have to go stand in the corner now?)
For what? There is nothing worth patting myself for. I simply stated what I felt. Geez am I supposed to be narcissistic now simply because I believe something?
I have no doubt that TZ can handle himself. He’s very good at handling himself, both here and well… that’s none of your business.
demimondian
The ilikepie script could, in principle, be modified to do a scan for words. (Assuming that posters write in English, yadda, yadda, yadda.) It would take a fairly extensive rewrite, though, since the current script is relatively inefficient (by design).
However, it *could* be done, if there were a need. Any of several of us could easily write such a script.
ThymeZone
Actually, he’s a fictional character who requires a lot of handling.
zzyzx
Fruitbat – who are you?
David
I probably could too, if I could be arsed to learn Java (or is it Javascript? I forget which one Greasemonkey runs on.). Just an idle question, though.
The Easter Bunny
A “theatrical character”? Fuck you, pal. I’m as real as any other mythological being who comments on random blogs. Just ask Zombie Santa or the Tooth Fairy.
BTW, if you see that tramp, tell her I want my mix tapes back.
ImJohnGalt
Oh for christ’s sake. Listen up, people.
ThymeZone: A character, by his own admission. He’s made up a persona and is playing a role here. You should give as much weight to what he says as you give a monologue by a character in a movie. Which is exactly about, uh, zero.
Darrell: A spoof. That is, he’s written by someone pretending to be a right wing loon. ThymeZone knows this, and yet his character pretends that he doesn’t. For some reason, people think that spoofing and pretending to be a “persona” adds to the discussion here. If you don’t share this opinion, then for fuck’s sake, just add *both* of them to your greasemonkey script. And if Rome Again’s defense of TZ grates you, add her too.
I modified the greasemonkey script to completely eliminate the posts and the rectangle of people whose comments I don’t care to hear. Without the “I Like Pie!”, you don’t have to know they’ve commented at all.
ThymeZone
Let’s put a wrap on this puppy.
In my opening to this thread, I basically asked a question, and did so without rancor.
A little while later, John Cole was screaming that he won’t be “bullied” and showing me the door.
I think anyone can figure out what is going on here.
Cole is wrong, embarrassed, and foolish on this issue. Unless he intends to ban me for the sin of criticizing him, I am going to go on saying so until hell freezes over.
When he decides that doing the right thing for his blog is more important than beating his chest and braying about how tough he is, then we can move on.
Rome Again
Oh gosh, you hurt my poor little heart saying that… not really!
ImJohnGalt
RA, yer a tough broad. I figgered you’d be okay.
John Ryan
American corporations will no longer support Imus