Via Sullivan, this link to Jews On First that discusses the new elective in Bible Study that is being pushed through the Texas Legislature:
Texas legislators are moving full speed ahead with a bill mandating elective Bible classes in the state’s public high schools that appears crafted to facilitate use of a fundamentalist Protestant curriculum. Jewish groups have opposed that sectarian curriculum, but they were unable to testify at a hearing scheduled during Passover.
The bill is moving at a time of heightened interest in public school Bible classes sparked by a new book advocating such courses and a Time Magazine cover story about it.
Texas House Bill 1287 requires all school districts in the state to establish “elective courses in the history and literature of the Old and New Testaments eras.” It also requires the use of those two books as texts.
While we all know I normally get hysterical aboutthis stuff, I am less so about this. If you read the link, it is clearly designed to bypass more “moderate” Bible Study classes, but overall, I will do less hyperventilating about elective courses than I will the wholesale destruction of science classes to cater to creationist whims.
And a minor quibble- both Sullivan and Jews on First use a phrasing that could be considered misleading.
Sullivan:
They’re mandating a Bible study elective in Texas schools, and they’ve geared the materials for a Protestant fundamentalist tilt.
Jews on First:
Texas legislators are moving full speed ahead with a bill mandating elective Bible classes in the state’s public high schools that appears crafted to facilitate use of a fundamentalist Protestant curriculum.
If read carelessly, one could conclude that they are mandating bible study. They are not. They are mandating that an elective course in Bible Study be offered. That is, in and of itself, not problematic. The problematic aspect begins when you look at the content, which appears to be a very sectarian version of religious truth, which should not be what schools offer if they feel the need to provide electives in religious studies.
The Other Steve
I had Bible Study when I was in high school.
Ok, it was part of British Literature, and we simply talked about the impact of the King James version on the English language.
Zifnab
I totally can’t wait to see this hit Texas classrooms. An elective course in Bible Study? Growing up in a school split between heavy Roman Catholic, Baptist, and Methodist, congregassions, I do not envy the teacher who tries to explain the origins of the Pope or the significance of holy communine.
Might as well throw a landmine in the classroom. This is practically an invitation for the various denominations to start eating each other alive.
Tim F.
Your Texas Republican Platform at work. Don’t blame them for not spelling it out in advance.
BTW, as long as they’re just electives TX should mandate another one on why Jews can’t accept shit that’s like right in front of their face and why Mormonism is bullshit.
Andrew
Can we trade Texas back to Mexico for Baja?
Pb
More disturbing yet are the details about the assholes in charge here:
Apparently bigotry is a “moral standard” in Texas…
Punchy
Lengthy fix for the obvious. It’s Texas, people, so the fix was quite appropriate.
bored
As Justice Kennedy noted in the Weisman decision: “Research in psychology supports the common assumption that adolescents are often susceptible to pressure from their peers toward conformity, and that the influence is strongest in matters of social convention.”
That’s part of why “voluntary” school prayer is deeply un-American, and has been found so by the Supreme Court. Everyone knows that in public-school settings, the actions of the majority create a compelling pressure towards conformity.
Everyone knows it. Especially people trying to create “elective” bible-study classes.
“Voluntary” school prayer isn’t voluntary. And “elective” bible-study won’t be elective.
ThymeZone
On the face of it, one has to agree with your overall assessment.
But this is Texas, and they have a long history of trying to use public education to advance religious agendas down there. Therefore, I don’t trust this move at all.
Why does the class have to be a “Bible study” and not just a “religious study” with a broad syllabus?
DJAnyReason
Uhh, I think my objection to this would be using taxpayer money to fund a bible study class. Sorry, that’s a pretty facial violation of the establishment clause.
The state can’t discriminate against religious groups if they’re just trying to use resources available to everybody, but the state absolutely cannot spend money promoting religion.
Myrtle Parker
Could not disagree more. They are mandating that state public schools offer a course in one particular religion. They are very specifically favoring one religion over another. They are trespassing on the first amendment by mandating an establishment of one religion over another.
I would have no problem with a school offering a voluntary elective in Bible study (not the religion, the text) if there was sufficient demand. Likewise, if their was sufficient demand for a course on the history of wicca, so be it. But the State has NO INTEREST in MANDATING that Bible study classes, IN PARTICULAR, are offered.
John Cole
Myrtle, you are probably right.
Regardless, while I do not support this, I am less hysterical about it than I am some of the other recent moves to insert religion into everything.
David
I wondered what the hell “mandatory elective” was supposed to mean. How bad a sign is it that my first reaction was “wow, they’re being more forthright than usual with the doublespeak”?
bored
“less hysterical’–
that’s called “numb”, John.
It’s why the Republicans foul on every play. Eventually your sense of perspective gets lost–this outrage is not quite as visibly unAmerican as yesterday’s, and it only manages to trash the First Amendment without trashing the First, Fourth, and Fifth like yesterday’s did, so…yawn.
Chad N. Freude
Translated.
He left out the part about the cabal of Jewish international bankers.
Questions: Is evolution a text? Is evolution secret? Can’t we have anti-Semitism that’s grammatical and conforms to facts?
Dungheap
What the hell is wrong with an elective course in Comparative Religion? Why Bible classes?
This is just a foot in the door to proselytize on the taxpayer dime just like “abstinence education.” On its face it isn’t too overt but in practice it’s a different story.
Fledermaus
Yes it is. Nothing currently prohibits local school dist from offering these classes as electives. Why mandate it at the state level? Now the school boards who don’t offer such class have to go out and spend money on hiring a qualified teacher, buying materials, etc etc. Even if no one want to take the class.
There is a time and a place for religeous instruction – it’s called sunday church.
Myrtle Parker
Nothing wrong with studying the beatitudes as beautiful poetry or philosophy.
Everything wrong with studying the beatitudes to conclude person who spoke them was either savior or liar.
Everything wrong with mandating that schools devote resources to studying beatitudes, _in particular_.
Zifnab
That depends on how its taught. I can say from experience that the popularity of a course is directly proportional to the ease of getting an A. If the teacher wants to be a Nazi about the subject and has a reputation for just failing kids she doesn’t like, you’ll see alot of empty classrooms. If the course it taught by a teacher who just doesn’t care and it gets turned into a blow-off class, then expect it to be packed wall-to-wall.
Social dynamics cut more than one way and I honestly don’t envy the class half-full of Goth kids who want to just see how much grief they can dole out before they get booted from the class.
numbskull
I thought I was the numbskull, you numbskull.
Are they mandating elective courses in the texts of any other religion? No? You don’t see the inherent problem there?
Are they mandating elective courses in the King James version of the bible? The Catholic verson? Will the New Testament be KJ or Good News for Modern Man? Which Lord’s Prayer will be taught? In other words, who chooses the “textbook” and which one will it be? ‘Cause there are some differences, and people have killed over those differences, even among “Christians”.
No matter how this is sliced and diced, John, this is a very bad idea.
Chad N. Freude
Having had the experience of attending school in an era and a place when/where religion in the classroom was taken for granted and every student was simply assumed to be Christian, I am not in favor of this sort of thing. And, pace John, I think it’s a big deal.
Mr Furious
Not a problem? Are you nuts, John?
Myrtle is right on the money. And that’s before you even deal with the fact that this is certainly a trojan horse way of wedging this shit into the curriculum.
Chad N. Freude
Earth to Zifnab: This is Texas. How many parents will not insist that their kids “elect” to take these courses?
Mr Furious
John, did you stop reading Sullivan’s post to compose your response? He included this revealing quote from the bill’s sponsor:
That’s a fucking problem alright. And should worry the shit out of you.
“the Constitution actually calls on the United States Congress to make sure, to ensure that people are allowed to practice their religion.” How about the other 18 hours a day they are NOT in public school, Congressman?
p.lukasiak
again, we’re talking about Texas, which means that lots of school districts could structure their “elective” course selections in such a way that students would be forced into Bible study class.
For instance, every student is required to take electives during 3rd period, and there is one small basketweaving elective, one small advanced physics elective, and 20 sections of Bible class electives. Once the other two electives are full, everyone else winds up in the Bible Class elective.
Pb
And…
Then move to Iran, you’ll fit right in!
Mr Furious
More from the source article:
[alarm buzzer] That doesn’t sound to me like any kind of neutral analysis or literary angle driving this mandate, it’s a straight-up attempt to inject religious moralizing and evangelizing into the classroom with the bonus helping of jinoistic bullshit downgrading other religions (Islam, anyone) as immoral.
I know these clowns won’t be specifically setting the curriculum (yet), but this is opening a fucking Pandora’s Box…
Mr Furious
Read that part again:
Quite an assumption by the Congressman there.
John S.
There’s nothing wrong with studying the Bible in public school – as a piece of literature. Teaching it as the word of G-d is another matter altogether. I myself studied the Bible in high school – but I also studied the Koran and several other religious texts. I highly doubt that is the purpose of this effort.
And this:
Is simply disgusting. I’m sure it was just an ‘oversight’ to purposely exclude Jews from the hearings.
Tsulagi
I like that one. Yep, you could sure count on a fair and balanced approach to public school Bible study classes from legislators like that.
Well, if there is such a demand for Bible study classes, then apparently local churches have been slacking. How about this? How about those good Christian legislators, no doubt active in their churches, rally their congregations to provide truly elective Bible study courses to meet that pent up demand instead of using public funding? In their churches or at home where it belongs.
No public government funding for bringing religion into public school classrooms, on an elective basis or not.
Mr Furious
Seriously John. think this over and get back to us in a few hours.
RSA
Mandatory elective courses. I’d be interested in seeing what other courses are required to be taught in Texas schools, either as core courses or as electives. I assume some kind of U.S. history? World history? World religions? Ethics? Logic? All of these are more important than Biblical literacy, I think.
Pb
Here’s an idea… if there’s no separation between church and state, then can the state mandate that churches teach courses in evolution? Or, failing that, at least make them pay their fucking taxes already?
Rome Again
I’m just throwing my voice in with the others, if they want to do it without public funding that’s one thing, but doing it in the schools, mandating it at state level and appointing only study towards biblical information sounds wrong to me.
I agree with TZ, this is another way to try to insert bible religion in the schools, just a little more covertly.
Andrew
Yeah, I fucking hate subsidizing some other asshole’s religion. Screw that.
Chad N. Freude
Fixed to correct Texas grammar and prevent misrteading.
Chad N. Freude
That’s the trouble with you secularists, skewed priorities. And who said anything about literacy? That implies critical thinking, and we can’t have that. It’s all about indoctrination.
ThymeZone
Why do you hate Jesus?
(NMYM)
Zifnab
Probably the same number of parents that were already bludgeoning their kids over the head with the bible to begin with, only you need to subtract out all the parents who think their kids are going to get some sort of evil, corrupted, secularized/Mormonized/bastardized/satanized version of scripture that doesn’t fit with their specific doctrine.
There’s no shortage of religious schools in Texas. Parents who would normally be die-hards about this sort of thing will likely have already sent their kids to one of those.
From a student’s perspective, I can garantee that more than one school will regret this because there is soooo much stratification even within the Christian faith about what the bible says. I pity da foo who has to teach this class.
People are just asking to hyper-politicize religion in education. If I were a public school teacher, I wouldn’t touch this class with a fifty foot pole. It’s a total landmine.
Katie
When I was in high school (about 25 years ago), you had to take 4 years of english. I don’t think that happens anymore. One semester of those english classes had to be something called “The Bible as Literature”. At the time, I hated it. My family is pretty a-religious and I thought it was going to be some sort of religion class. I really didn’t like the class much but it HAS proven very useful over the years since I can now at least recognize biblical references in both written word and in conversations. Being so anti religion myself, I really hate to admit that.
In retrospect, it must have been a very difficult class to teach without putting any religion into it at all–after all it WAS the bible! The instructors made a huge, (and successful) effort to keep any religion out of it. The class was done strictly for the purpose of being able to understand biblical references in other literature, and I think as such, it was pretty successful.
Teaching the bible can be done without inserting a bunch of religious hooey into it. I think that you have to do it carefully and that it would be really really easy to slip into proselytizing. In some of the bible belt areas I can’t even imagine how they could keep it a strictly literature type class. It would be way too tempting to drift into religion discussions.
They did little sections on some other religious texts, but not many as it was really geared toward recognizing biblical references in other literature.
Bubblegum Tate
Which may be the one and only positive byproduct of this bullshit.
Or, on the flip side, seeing as how wingnut assholes constantly scream how agnosticism is a religion (which makes no fucking sense…but it’s wingnuts we’re talking about here), then I want all the perks churches get, too, from tax-exempt status all the way down to specially reserved parking spaces on city streets.
John Cole
I have thought it over. I oppose it and have from the start.
I don’t think there needs to be any bible study in classrooms, elective or otherwise. I certainly don’t think there needs to be a very narrow portrayal of religion that excludes other religions in classrooms.
I oppose all of that.
But I am less hysterical about this than I would be if they were trying to supplant biology with intelligent design. And, as I stated, I do not think a balanced elective in religious studies or bible study is terribly problematic. This is a society in which we have a number of religious types, and e have to live together. What I do have a problem with mainly, though is what I stated in the post:
I don’t think I am being too lax here, and I challenge anyone to be as reactionary as I am to the religious crazies.
Bubblegum Tate
Oh, also, “Jews on First” is a freaking fantastic blog name.
Rome Again
Trust me, you don’t want to go there with me.
Rome Again
Yes, watching “de-nominations” de-nominate themselves further is always good sport, where’s the popcorn?
Sri Ramkrishna
Zifnab says:
Totally agree. All it takes is for little Opie to jump up in the middle of class and say, “That’s not what my Paw says! My Paw says the Pope is the head of Christianity!”. Opie runs home, and tells his Paw that he’s wrong and that the Pope is not the head of Christianity because the teacher sez so. Paw brings his shotgun to school for show-n-tell.
There are so many variations of any religious ideology that stepping into that cesspool is going to set their own religious faith back as rival religious factions hit back. Religion should be a private thing between your family/your church/your community. Sadly, Texan republicans are only social conservatives and nothing more.
sri
Andrew
Jew here. Ain’t it obvious? We killed him, after all. And I have a fantastic recipe for matzoh that’s half Baptist and half Lutheran baby blood. Catholic is way too clumpy, BTW.
Vladi G
I do. Quite simply, it’s taxpayer money going toward teaching religion to kids. Just because it’s only being taught to kids who want to be taught, and just because kids who don’t want to take it don’t have to, that doesn’t change the fact that it’s being funded with public money.
If you want your kid to learn religion in school, send them to private school, or home school. But don’t use my money to pay for it.
Zifnab
I remember back in English 2 in high school we read “Lord of the Flies”, which – at least according our teacher – had some incredibly heavy-handed religious references. At one point, our teacher took a bible in one hand, the LotF book in the other, and went line by line comparing one of the Gospel’s accounts of the death of Jesus to LotF’s account of the death of Simon.
That was the model, in my mind, for religious studies. Allegorical comparison. Rhetorical technique. Even historical reference. That’s fine. In fact, its better than fine, its fantastic and I totally encourage it.
But the gist of the Texas initative isn’t to teach the bible, but to glorify it. Congressmen are pushing this as though the Bible is some sort of essential building block of society and I imagine that’s how the textbook will read. All things from biblical truth. The potential for this to bleed into every other class – from US History to Biological Science to College Algebra – is epic. That’s what really disturbs me. If this was being billed as a cultural thing – like History of Jazz or Art Appreciation – I’d be more ok with it. But this is getting too much hype and too much political punch. It’s just asking to explode, especially knowing how Texas selects its textbooks.
Mr Furious
I can hold my own there as well.
Chad N. Freude
Yeah, that’s what this is about. You can tell that from the statements of the bill’s sponsors.
Mr Furious
Good post, zifnab. Exactly what I meant by Trojan Horse and Pandora’s Box. The lazy man’s way of saying what you just articulated.
I remember the Bible being part of a “Revolutions in Western Thought” class I took in college (state school, btw), but it was one of many books and treated pretty “clinically.” This is a whole other animal.
Jay C
Wow! Just WOW! Texas Rep Chisum gets his “information” from fixedearth.com, does he? Check out the site: yep, a real bastion of scientific objectivity there: as it’s subhead states:
Exposing the False Science Idol of Evolutionism,
and Proving the Truthfulness of the Bible from Creation to Heaven…
But my fave was their big caption:
So these folks also believe that the Copernican system of astronomy is a “myth”?? What’s next? Mandating that science classes offer the theory of phlogiston as an alternative?
Keith
Maybe someone else has a different experience, but a program of mandatory electives doesn’t mean that you must take this elective or that elective; you’ve got a pool of electives, and you must take a certain number of different kinds.
Now, the problem with this program is not that on its face, it teaches the Bible from a literary standpoint, but rather that it’s extremely open for abuse. We can cross our fingers and hope that it doesn’t happen, but once it’s done, it’ll take years to undo.
Rome Again
Now, THAT is cool.
Furthermore, if they did a comparison of Jesus with Mithras or Dionysius and several other avatar-types, they’d find more coincidences, such as virgin births… Hmmmm, who knew?
mrmobi
Not with the jokers who are running Texas, we can’t!
mrmobi
Levitating Globe
“An electromagnet and computerized sensor hidden in its
display stand cause the Earth to levitate motionlessly in the air.”
Could God have engineered something like that for the real Earth?
The Bible and all real evidence confirms that this is precisely what He did, and indeed:
The Earth is not rotating…nor is it going around the sun.
The universe is not one ten trillionth the size we are told.
Today’s cosmology fulfills an anti-Bible religious plan disguised as “science”.
The whole scheme from Copernicanism to Big Bangism is a factless lie.
Those lies have planted the Truth-killing virus of evolutionism
in every aspect of man’s “knowledge” about the Universe, the
Earth, and Himself.
Take your time.
Check it all out.
Decide for yourself.
mrmobi
Just wanted to point out that the denizens of fixedearth.com just need to get out there and find the really, really big electromagnet to prove their hypothesis.
Punchy
Cuz nobody wants those Dirty Brown People dragging their booby-trapped Korans into schools where their precious white kids go. In fact, can Muslim children even ATTEND school in Texas? If so, where?
JC
I have sort of a unique view, but it probably wouldn’t work.
I am all in favor of mandated teaching of religion in school, from about 5th to 12th grade. But I have a kicker. It needs to be at 7 to 10 of the major religions.
So you first start with all the creation myths of the great religions. That would be in grade 5, going through the creation myths.
Then in 6th and 7th, read the stories, the old Testament, The Mahabharata, portions of the Talmud, about the Prophet, some Chang-tzu, some good personal mythos stories, of the various Godmen.
8th and 9th, get into the underlying ethical do’s and don’ts of the various religions. Draw out similarities, differences. Also trace the history of the religious organizations in the world, dealing with various splinterings of the religions (Catholicism into Lutherans, Calvinists, Islam into Sunnis/Shiites, Buddhism into Therevada/Hinaya, as well as the re-absorption of Buddhism into Hinduism, via Shankara’s incorporation of Buddhism into the Hindu stories.)
10th, 11th – get into the deeper, philosphical propounding of the various schools. Talmud scholars, Augustine, Shankara, Lao-Tzu, etc. Again, find that there are similarities in the descriptions of “higher states”, point out that states do seem to be accessible to people (as brain-states, not as “fundamental spiritual truths”)
12th – personal study and experimentation with one or more of the various religious traditions. Review the development of the notion of “god”, from the mythic, to the rational (deist) to the modern, to the postmodern – versions of “God” that can co-exist with current scientific understanding (not your mom’s God).
There is a lot of benefit to religious studies, and I think that religious studies from around 11 to 12, can be useful:
a. Ethically
b. Multiculturally
c. Orientation against nihilism.
But again, that’s me.
Rome Again
Where is their proof? Because some man on earth build a machine that could levitate a globe? It’s hypothesis only. OMFG!
Rome Again
to 6th and 7th graders? Sorry, I disagree, completely.
JC
“Jews on First”
“Buddht’s on Second”?
“I Don’t Know’s (agnostics) on Third?”
mrmobi
You see, this is what I’m talking about. Christianists don’t see science as science, but as a stalking horse for the end of Christianity.
This has been another edition of “why you should not elect complete morons to your state legislature.”
JC
Yeah, that’s probably true – Talmud should wait till 10th or 11th, I guess.
Rome Again
They would rather defend their fairytales than explore truths.
Rome Again
I have an easier time with 10th or 11th grade for Talmud study (portions only even at that age) than I do 6th or 7th. That information is just too delicate for those wee ones, sorry.
Stacy
My Southern home town is fairly well split between Catholics, Baptists, and Church of Christ. The Catholics and the Church of Christ people hate each other, and each have their own local radio program talking about why the other is completely wrong. The Baptists know that outside of this particular town they own everything, so they have no need to be overly obnoxious. The few remaining people are split between small Presbyterian, Methodist, and Pentecostal churches.
I totally hate the idea of public school bible study, elective or no, but I have to say, it would be fun to sit in on a few of these bible study classes at my old high school. It would probably start with the Church of Christ, since they don’t believe they are in any way descended from the Catholic church. The Catholics would then jump in. Then, the Baptists would speak up to say “Y’all, it’s clearly like this…” Big fist fight, probably escalate to knives. If you stay out of the rumble, it would be good, cheap entertainment.
Punchy
This could not possibly be more dead-on.
Just WAIT for the first parent who comes bitching to the Principal, complaining that Jesus did this and never did that. Teacher offers retraction in class, confusing the kids more. So next parent comes in complaining that the teacher isn’t sure what he/she’s doing, so Principal has teacher just teach the basics. Until another parent refuses to have their kids learn about the End Times, as it’s too violent and disturbing. And the next one claims that The Divinci Code should be discussed, etc.
And EVERY SINGLE PARENT bitches when their great, morally upstanding, polite and nice kid somehow got a “C” in this class, meaning he’s not quite Jesus Jr. that the parent thinks he is. Talk about a fucking mess.
How one teaches such an incredibly subjective, emotional, and loaded cirriculum to a bunch of kids is the million dollar question.
Dreggas
You know I would have no faith in texas had I not met two very cool people from there at DomCon this past weekend. That being said can we have a mini-rapture and get all the cool people out before we kick them out of the union?
Dreggas
by putting said children, school officials, and the parents of said children into a steel cage and showing it live on Pay-Per-View?
Jake
Plank? Mote? Ring any bells Mr. Crap Maggot? Guess not.
Still it’s nice to witness another case of Texass aiming a bazooka at its foot. If a mandate to include elective Bible Study goes through, how can they legitimately object to electives for Introduction to Human Sexuality or Atheism 101?
Yer doin’ a heckuva job Tex.
pharniel
hey, let them generate more firepower
– anyway, here in liberal town MI we had bible lit.
*shrug* I just assumed that everywhere pretty much alredy had it.
Dreggas
As much as I am sure the Fundies would have wanted it, we never had it even in the middle of the banjo belt of Upstate NY. We only briefly covered some of it in history class and that was cursory as it related to ancient times.
Bubblegum Tate
I’m picturing the news team rumble from Anchorman. “Boy, that escalated quickly. I mean, that really got out of hand fast.”
Fecapult
I believe it’s called “Sunday School”
Davebo
Off topic but…
With all the discussion about why politicians and insider journalists appear on the Imus radio show I had to wonder. Why do prominent Republican politicians post at Red State?
Have they never read the place?
Remfin
I’d just like to point out a problem with so many of the assumptions saying it’s kind of OK – you are completely ignoring the dastardly crap that will be pulled. Here’s a hypothetical
Block #4, Tues. & Thurs.:
Math 9 (Algebra, whatever it is nowadays)
P.E. 2
AP Calculus
Bible Study (“elective”)
English 12
Pretty simple right? You got a 9th, a 10th (PE), an 11th (Calc), and a 12th. Everyone has the ability to take required courses (or that count as such, ala AP)
Except of course that AP Calc is insanely hard at that year for most people, cost $80 when I went (you had to actually take the college credit test, and the school could “pay” for it then bill you later), and can murder your GPA. And you are required by state law to have a full and accounted for schedule during school hours or you’re a truant.
Or you can take the free & easy “elective” Bible Study
Alternatively, they schedule a REAL 11th grade class, and “things go wrong”. A teacher (who they knew was going) quits/gets pregnant. “Well darn we tried to get a full-year sub but no one accepted our $25/week newspaper ad!. It’s OK kids you can just transfer over to Bible Study!!!”
Punchy
Uh huh. Yeah. Cuz Baptists go to Methodists’ Sunday School. And Catholics enjoy the Mormon’s version; they attend regularly. Of course the Evangelicals frequent the Presbeterians (sp?) Sunday school often.
They’re all Christian, right? Shouldn’t be a prob to teach a common cirriculum, right? Cuz Sunday school teachers do it all the time with a huge, heterogeneous mix of all diff sects of Christianity, right? Therefore teachers should have no problem. I guess I’m an idiot.
Pb
Davebo,
Because they fit right in? From the current top story at Red State:
Fecapult
Not really sure where this came from – I merely wished to point out that if parents wanted to pass their own ethos onto their progeny, Sunday School would be a good place to plunk em. It’s effective and un-intrusive.
Bubblegum Tate
Probably not. Most are probably aware that the site is just a bunch of hardcore loyalists and therefore simply view it as a conduit to get talking points out to “the base.”
Then again, I don’t really read RedState–my wingnut hideout of choice is BlogsforBush. They were all atwitter over there that a GOP candidate–I think it was Huckabee–was going to “guest blog” a post. The “guest blog” was basically just the text of a stump speech: Huckabee pointing out his conservative bona fides to a wingnutty audience. The dynamic might be different over at RS, but to me, it just looked like the Huckabee campaign saw it in much the same way they would see an appearance on Fox News or a speech in front of a GOP 527.
Chad N. Freude
Okay, I’m persuaded. The result of these classes would be good for the social health of Texas and grand entertainment for the rest of us. Not to mention the inevitable BJ thread to discuss/lampoon it.
Dreggas
Like I said just broadcast it live on Pay-Per-View and I am sure the bushies know some great fence companies (given their work on our borders) who could easily erect a steel cage around texas.
Chad N. Freude
You think it’s too young to learn critical textual analysis, hair-splitting interpretation, legalistic argumentation, and historical citation? I’m not so sure about that, after all, first-graders are pretty good at “But you said …” followed by a tortured interpretation of a parental instruction.
Chad N. Freude
Neither do RedState readers, they just sit in front of their screens and drool.
Richard 23
Huckabee? Nobody gets all atwitter over Huckabee. Maybe you mean Duncan Hunter.
Bubblegum Tate
Yes, it was Duncan Hunter. I stand corrected.
Chad N. Freude
In re Duncan Hunter:
His essay on BlogsforBush contains this:
Apparently he doesn’t see a disconnect between fighting them over there and the second sentence. Lest any of my fellow commenters be misled by this, that sentence leads into
and a claim that he is the candidate who will
I recommend reading the entire essay. It is a perfect laundry list of all the issues so dear to the hearts of the 28% base, and filled with pledges that no president will be able to fulfill.
Enlightened Layperson
I propose reading the Bible as it actually is, beginning with Genesis. How many people here have actually read it? You can have Cain murdering Abel, God wiping out the human race, Lot offering his daughters to be raped, the daughters getting even by raping their father, Jacob stealing his birthright and cheating his uncle out of the best livestock, etc etc etc. Move on to Joshua (mostly massacres and more massacres), Judges (a how-to for murder) and so forth.
Soon parents will be withdrawing their children for fear this immoral book with corrupt them.
Chad N. Freude
But it makes blockbuster movies.
HyperIon
check out blogging the bible
i was reading along for a while but then was so appalled by all the violence and idiocy that i had to take a break.
BTW in senior english in high school we read J.B. (by Archibald MacLeish) and Job side by side. it was pretty cool.
Bubblegum Tate
Yeah, that Blogging the Bible thing is actually quite good. I must admit that I lapsed in reading it and now have quite a bit of catch-up work to do, but it does a very good job of siply laying out the Bible as it’s written and pointing out the positives and negatives therein.
And yes, the Old Testament is so full of sex and violence, it’s like gangsta rap that doesn’t rhyme and uses antiquated language.
Enlightened Layperson
I have read Blogging the Bible (as well as the Old Testament itself). Confession: Referring the Judges as “a how-to for murder” was borrowed from the series.
jake
Enlightened Layperson makes a good point. I took a course on the Bible as literature (hippy-run private school). We read it cover to cover and it held our interest because “The Good Book” is chock full of sex, murder and general mayhem. Judith makes Lorena Bobbitt look like a Girl Scout. The Song of Solomon could run in Penthouse Forum without much editing. Revelations – clearly the rantings of a guy who munched shrooms like Cheetos.
Yeah, all of that will go down well with mummy and daddy.
Rome Again
How do you explain this to a 6th or 7th grader:
And all we need is our little children to learn the rule of Kol Nidrei and no one will ever honor a promise again 100 years from now (not that there are many that do now, but some still understand what honor means)
Beej
Very interesting thread. Through it all I couldn’t help thinking about my home town, population 420 people. There were 2 churches. The Methodist church (which I attended) had about 60 active members. The other church, the Catholic church, had around 500 active members (some came from the surrounding area). Somehow I managed to get all the way through grade school and high school without so much as a single prayer led by the teacher, without anyone objecting to the teaching of evolution in science class, without a single suggestion from the community that there ought to be an “elective” Bible study class. Isn’t it amazing that my Catholic neighbors, the huge majority, managed to restrain themselves from demanding that the rosary be prayed every morning, the Douay (sp) version of the Bible be studied, and only those scientific views approved by the Pope be taught in the public school. But then, they were fair and rational people. And my home town was not in Texas.
AlanDownunder
Bang on, John. The avidity with which people impose their particular creed using instruments of state is inversely proportional to their spirituality and piety. They profess disbelief in the efficacy of government to do anything then strive harder than anyone to get government to advance their aims. This mob aren’t Christians, they’re a GOP branch office.
Rome Again
What a great line.
Yes, yes, I do believe you are correct, sir.