It looks like there might be dozens dead and dozens injured in a mass shooting. I feel terriblefor the families, and I can only imagine the horror parents are going through right now trying to find out if their loved ones are safe.
Rappers will be relieved to know that our national dialogue about race has now officially turned into a national dialogue about gun control. Until, of course a 13 year-old blonde girl turns up missing.
I have an online friend from Virginia Tech, who checked in okay.
Apparently Instapundit is already fantasizing about what a wonderful world it would be if the student body had all been armed so they could blow the guy away. These guys never rest.
Like the way you work in a little Imus snark in the midst of this John. Really. My hat is off to ya. But the President’s already on the NDAGC:
“The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed,” spokeswoman Dana Perino said.
Well then what the fuck was it?
In the fall of 2002 a man and a teenaged boy enlivened the DC/Metro area by shooting a dozen or more people. At least one was tried and convicted in Virginia under that state’s brand-spanking new anti-terror laws. Launch a full investigation, make sure this guy didn’t have any help. Get off your arse and do your damn job.
Glad to hear it, Steve.
And there’s another brilliant
conservativeGlibertarian idea that has already worked so well in Iraq…
A crazy person, now dead? I imagine we’ll be finding out exactly who it was soon enough.
I don’t believe that had much of an effect in Austin, Texas, where, I’m told, everyone grabbed their gun and started shooting back at Charlie Whitman. I guess this slaughter establishes yet another dreadful record.
As I remember, Whitman was killed by an off-duty Latino cop.
But, yeah, we should all carry loaded weapons at all times. It’s the only way to ensure civility.
Come to think of it, make that automatic weapons. Guns actually help you study, because you feel so much more secure. Where is “two-in-the-brainpan” Lambchop when you need him? Help me out here, buddy.
We’re going to have to change the laws, though. Phrases like “nappy-headed hos” are shooting offenses, aren’t they?
RedState too. Yep, that’d work out well.
Student in anger management class with hand twitching on sidearm says to professor: “You’re giving me an F in this course?! YOU’RE GIVING ME AN F!!”
One of my co-workers, who is from India where things like this never happen, asked “Why are there so many guns in America?” I shrugged and said “because the U.S. was created by crazy violent people who massacred the previous inhabitants and revolted against their lawful government, and nobody dares say a word about it because gun nuts are, uhm, heavily armed.”
I suspect there will be no dialogue. You can’t have dialogue when one side is trying to be reasonable and the other side is threatening to kill the first side (using those oh-so-helpful guns). As for the notion that guns reduce crime, I’ll just point out place where everybody has an assault rifle and a grenade launcher in real life. Yeah, Iraq is such a crime-free peaceful place, yessirree. Alrighty, then!
— Badtux the Snarky Penguin
Ok, how about hyper-violent, paranoid death culture – mass production of over-the-top pornomicidal computer games translated into mass killing. You know, the whole base-superstructure thing. Criminal intent from cultural content?
Funny, I live in New York and I don’t remember when we passed conceal-and-carry legislation. Care to explain just what the fuck you’re talking about?
Dave in ME
Post on AmericaBlog that is heartless, but true:
Reader Patrick writes:
I know it is too early for comments like this (really, my prayers are with those people in Blacksburg) – but I just have to say it. 30+ kids killed and who knows how many injured and this is all we’re gonna hear about for weeks. But is it really that outrageous compared to what’s going on in Iraq every day? Politicians say Iraq is ok and no worse than any city in America – and the media for the most part don’t hold them accountable for comments like that. If there were consistency, this Tech thing wouldn’t be that big of a story.
I hope they put that on a loop and play it for the rest of the week. Line up the President’s mighty wisdom and skilled leadership behind a pro-gun message after a University school shooting, and I think you’ve got an amazing recipe for gun-control laws in the next five years.
Of course, it would be nice if our President could get his mouth open for more than five minutes without inhaling a lobbyist’s dong. But I guess that’s just way, way, way too much to ask for from this administration.
Yeah! He (?) could’ve done just as much harm with a Salad Shooter (TM).
This is why I think guns should be harder to get than a full organ transplant. They allow any crack-pot, shrimp dicked, violent coward who thinks the world was created to kiss his arse to become a weapon of mass destruction.
This would be considered a good day in Iraq.
So, Paul, if I’m understanding your two links, everything is hunky-dory, we just need to arm everyone, everywhere? Gun control does not work (except in Canada and Britain, and they are both Stalinist countries).
I couldn’t agree more. Let’s have guns everywhere. You should have the very best protection you can. Tommy Guns, Uziis, Glocks, the whole lethal parade. You really need an automatic weapon to properly protect yourself. Of course, children would have to receive training, but there’s no reason they shouldn’t have guns, too.
I notice that the President was careful to point out we all have a Constitutional Right to Bear Arms. He’s a very compassionate man.
And your link to the Iraq “gun-control” problem? Again, I concur, we definitely wouldn’t want to do anything in Iraq that would stop people from slaughtering each other.
You have real talent Paul. You should apply to be head of ATF. No qualifications? No Problem. Recess Appointment.
I am talking about Gun Control. The banning of Firearms from private citizens.
Virginia Tech is a “gun-free zone”.
Can he explain this?
India: At Least Six Separatists Killed In Traded Gunfire
I saw a comment on Americablog that seems to fit. As bad as this is, it would actually a quiet day in baghdad.
Wonder when the talking heads will mention this
Instead you want to make it easiest for one side to slaughter the other.
In short, don’t start blaming this on our “gun culture.” I can assure you that our very liberal colleges have no such thing. This is the action of someone who’s clearly got criminal intent, nothing more.
Nothing more? My understanding is that besides criminal intent he also had a 9mm pistol in each hand.
Arguable. Whitman could not have been taken out by anyone other than a lucky sniper, given the architecture. The cops only had handguns and shotguns, and it’s likely that the students who retrieved hunting rifles from their dorms may have kept him pinned down and distracted while the cops figured out how to get up there.
Dave in ME
Paul L you are just another dime-a-dozen pissed conservative boy worried that “the government” is coming for your weaponry?. YOU should not have firearms of any type, mostly to avoid shooting yourself or your relations.
Maybe it is a good thing that Indian men do not have guns.
Indian men burn effigies of Richard Gere after he kisses
Bollywood actress repeatedly at AIDS event.
It’s official Perino has lost her fucking mind:
“Certainly, bringing a gun into a school domitory and shooting … is against the law and something someone should be held accountable for,” Perino said.
Thanks DP. That was a fine illustration of what passes for leadership in this country. Though I do love the way she can’t bring herself to use the active voice when referring to accountability.
Update: Co-worker just spoke to a niece at VT. The rumour down there is a male student shot his ex early this morning, shot a few more students, laid low and started up again.
Good idea, Paul L.–wasn’t it a private citizen with a gun that did all the shooting? And incidentally, can you back up your “Stalinist” claim at all? Just cite a reputable source, please. If you can’t find anything substantive, I’ll accept references to Lenin as well.
I just can’t get over how sick it is for the White House to reaffirm that there’s a right to bear arms in the wake of a tragedy like this one. It’s like they feel they must offer equal comfort to both the victims and to the gun nuts who fear their guns will be taken away as a result. Absolutely insane.
The right-wing fantasy of public shootouts that always seems to pop up when some tragedy like this happens is downright mystifying (not to mention rather disgusting).
No, that’d be the “80% solution”, aka Dick Cheney’s proposal…
No, we shouldn’t even be there.
Let me make sure I’m understanding your argument. You seem to be implying that the students should have been allowed to carry weapons while in class. If they weren’t actually carrying at the time of the murders, how would they get to their guns to defend themselves, Paul? Do you see how insane that idea is?
Take heart, Paul. You can now argue (again) that it is a safe in Baghdad as it is in America. Mission Accomplished.
Tom in Texas
I too have to question the sanity of anyone who looks at this tragedy and thinks the solution is more guns.
Yeah, that bugs me, too. Gun nuts can’t even wait for the shooter’s barrel to cool off before they jump in to assert how very, very important it is that everybody get to have as many guns of any variety that they desire.
Fucking hell people — if guns or easy access to guns were to blame we’d have a whole lot more of these shootings than we do. Considering the number of guns and crazy fuckers out there, it is actualy remarkable we don’t have more of these problems.
Guns are certainly part of the problem — but this shit doesn’t go simply by changing some laws.
The NRA is find a way to blame the unarmed students for this…
And Bush is going to give a speech about VT shootings–anyone wanna wager $10 that he finds a way to mention Iraq in this?
The more I think of it the more boggling it becomes. If they’d stopped with the first paragraph (horrified, thoughts, prayers etc) that would have been great. Short, direct, the end. There was absolutely no reason to bring in the President’s support of the 2nd Am. I can’t even begin to imagine what the parents of these kids must have felt when they heard “The president is sorry your child is dead, he’s praying for you and by the way he supports the right to bear arms.”
WTF? Are mom and dad supposed to get out the Winchester cradle it in their arms and say “At least we’ll always have Winnie”?
I’m going to stop saying these people couldn’t be any worse because they keep proving me wrong.
And wouldn’t it be nice if the President could show his phiz rather than sending out his mouth piece? Perhaps he’s having another My Pet Goat moment.
Get real dude, its bike ride time.
You might be right, srv. I had a good friend who went to university down there when Whitman flipped out (brain tumor). She said that before that, she didn’t really feel like Texas was that different from Chicago, but when it happened, a lot of people went and got a weapon and started shooting at the tower. Said she’d never seen anything like it.
Let’s do a little thought experiment regarding “everyone should have guns all the time” with this tragedy.
So you’re sitting in class and you hear gun fire and screams.
You run out into the hall and see ‘the bad guy’ with his gun firing into a class room.
So you shoot him.
Another person hears the shots and runs out, seeing you shoot this other person.
And shoots you.
Isn’t there some cliche about rights without responsibility? That is what we have currently with our gun laws.
I hope they did not send in armed police and the Swat team to escalate the situation.
Ya know I really wish he had kept his big yap shut, there was no need to throw the base any meat on this issue. Some crackpot went on a rampage, it’s not something that should be used by one side or the other to score political points but sadly it will.
Ugh. I grew up 90 minutes from Blacksburg in Martinsville, VA. I went to VT’s rival school (UVa) but the majority of the kids from my high school went to VT, I had cousins who played football there, and some of my best friends in my current city are VT grads. I feel so badly for the school today…just an unspeakable act…there’s really nothing more to say at this point…
Anyone can be a cop! All you need is a gun!
Paul, you might want to stop shooting your jackalopes before you release them. That one didn’t make it a foot before it twitched and went belly up.
I’d like to have a “B…B…B…but Clinton” moment.
I am sure there is an example (too lazy too google) of how how he would have handled this. Yet we get….
There were armed cops all over the “gun-free” campus this morning. Their guns failed to stop the massacre. It is far from certain that some armed student or staff could’ve done what scores of trained police officers couldn’t.
Paul, did you know that regular, street patroling police in London don’t carry weapons (other than truncheons)? Want to hazard a guess why?
Gun control can work, just not in a country where the gun lobby writes the gun control laws.
The sad fact is that more than a handful of parents will DEMAND the right for their sons/daughters to have a gun on campus for protection. As if this’ll ever happen twice on the exact same campus. Yet demand they will.
If tactical nukes are outlawed, only outlaws will have tactical nukes.
“My fellow Americans, Today we witnessed the worst terrorist attack on American soil since 9/11. I say terrorism because tonight, all over this great land of ours, parents are terrified, terrified that their children will not come home from school. And any act that causes terror is terrorism, that’s why we call it terrorism and not horrorism or them horrorists, even when we are horrified, like I am, right this minute. I say to the terrorists: You can horrify me, but not terrify me, whether here in Virginia, or in Eyerack
This crazed young man is just like a suicide bomber who kills a bunch of people at an Baghdad University, which has already happened several times, where someone killed a bunch of innocent people and then killed his ownself. There, in Eyerack, with all the bomb control you can think of, we still have these suicide bombings. You can only do so much, so having more gun control would not have stopped this terrorist no how. I know how some people think. They think if we got rid of guns we’d get rid of these things. But in Eyerack we got rid of the bombs and we still have bombings. And that’s unacceptable: unacceptable to me, and unacceptable to all the people who would accept this, normally. The only way to control these things is to expand FISA: That’s the control that controls.”
Requiem æternam dona eis, Domine, et lux perpetua luceat eis.
Te decet hymnus Deus, in Sion, et tibi reddetur votum in Ierusalem. Exaudi orationem meam; ad te omnis caro veniet.
Requiem æternam dona eis, Domine, et lux perpetua luceat eis.
Rest eternal grant them, and let light perpetual shine upon them.
That’s the fucked up thing for VT. An escaped criminal hid on campus in August and shot a campus guard. Sure, some idiots might say the solution is for every student to have a gun but since it was a student with a gun who did this, I think they’ll be sat on.
President Bush’s speech.
No mention of gun rights at all. That wasn’t so hard, was it?
The Other Steve
Wow, leave it to the Republicans to blame the victims of a tragedy.
These guys never learn.
except in these days of Lake Woebegone above averageness, many students freak out when they get Cs. the pre-meds assert that a C in a chem requirement will “ruin their lives”.
it would seem i got out of the education biz none too soon.
Good post. Clinton had the right approach to gun violence, (and no, it was not the stupid “assault rifle ban”): economic growth.
Economic growth with improving employment opportunity is half of the solution, in my view. The other half is ending the war on drugs.
Incidents like this are notable because they are so rare, and in a country of 300 million guns!
well, maybe they should have make that decision by having a shoot out at the old General Assembly. after all, that’s how the west was won…
SWAT was too busy shooting a dog and ripping up some marijuana plants across town.
And don’t forget health care…
I haven’t been to Blacksburg, but my understanding is that it’s a lot like the university town where I used to live: 15,000 full-time residents and 25,000 students. I’d be surprised (appalled, actually, at the use of resources) if they had a SWAT team. I bring this up because there are questions floating around about what the police were doing between the two spates of shootings. Probably the best they could under the circumstances.
Tom in Texas
I have no qualms with trained armed police officers responding to this. My issue is with your inane contention that we need to let 18-19 year old college freshmen arm themselves in dormitories.
Or, as Instapundit would call it, “the hottest porno ever made.”
inane and insane IMO
college admins have failed completely at keeping drugs and alcohol off campus. add guns and only bad things can happen.
If they did…why would you go to college?
Because of the guns?
There’s a four-year-old blond girl in an amber alert in Penna.
Good one, Craigie, this is one depressing thread, ain’t it?
But what about this? Are the American people being denied their rights to keep and bear arms?
Let’s ask Mr. Wiki:
All this talk of second amendment protections and universal gun ownership is making me nostalgic for the glory days of the NRA, you know, before they won. They had such great slogans. Let me propose a new one:
Suitcase nukes don’t kill people, people kill people.
The suitcase nuke, the ultimate in personal protection. Protected by the second amendment.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
VT President afflicted with Rice-speak:
Excuse me fuckwit. What the hell does the nature of the initial shooting have to do with shit? You had a shooting on campus less than a year ago. When shit started to go down again, that was your cue to go into Full Frontal Oh Shit mode and make sure every thing was perfectly safe even if it meant room by room checks.
Apparently you thought you had all the fucking time in the world. But I know an organization that appreciates your approach to accountability. Send your resume to 1600 Penn Ave, NW, Washington DC. I heard they’re looking for a War Czar. Hurry now, there are a lot of parents on their way with lots of questions.
ya know, jake, we are only a couple of hours into this.
could you consider waiting just a bit longer before you start with the “fuckwits” stuff? there will be plenty of time to assign blame. and dissect things endlessly.
I do find it funny/sad that the same “strict constructionists” who bleat about how “it doesn’t say ‘separation of church and state’ anywhere in the Constitution!” never acknowledge that it also never says “guns” anywhere in the Constitution. It says “arms.” Which, besides guns, would also include bazookas, RPGs, mortars, chemical/biological weapons, and all sorts of other highly destructive things.
So the question remains: Do they think people should be allowed to have as many of those things as they want, or do they agree that there are and should be limits as to what “arms” people are allowed to have?
Bush has already pre-empted the discussion about Gun Control. Sick and ghoulish.
Logic dictates that if everyone has a nuclear weapon, no one will use them. It’s simple MAD-matics. If two superpowers in ICBM stalemate don’t blow up the world, than 6 billion milling masses, each with his own pocket thermo-nuclear device will bring about an era of unparrelled peace and tranquility.
Calling someone a “fuckwit” on an internet message board is a time-honored tradition that should expect use early and often. And, honestly, when you’re the President of a campus that has suffered not one, but two school shootings in a single year, I can’t think of a better word to describe you.
Jake, that’s a little hard-on excuse me, that’s a little hard on the school administration. When a single shooting happens in a town of 25,000 you don’t close off all the roads, and tell everyone to stay in their homes and businesses. Especially when it’s first thought of as a domestic dispute. I would hate to live in that town. You really can’t react at all times as if the worse is goign to happen, because it is rare that it does. This, however, was one of those sad, disgusting, unfortunate times.
I’m glad I came here to Balloon Juice. I’m sure there are other places – and I need to find them, suggestions? – but when in need of sorting out thoughts I like going to one place where people don’t go insane (generally) but do have smart, informed things to say about what’s going on, from both / many perspectives.
(Strike-through worked in preview of previous comment. …)
I think the country should arm a campus, perhaps three. Can we pick one? Who wants to go first????
Unless they are Iranian. Then they will lob nukes everywhere.
Logic dictates that if everyone has a nuclear weapon, no one will use them. Unless they’re depressed, or have some other reason that seems reasonable to them at the time.
Of course. But I guess those 3308 other American kids getting blown to shit in a hot, miserable desert at the ass-end of a failed ideology were just statistical noise.
it’s likely that the students who retrieved hunting rifles from their dorms may have kept him pinned down and distracted while the cops figured out how to get up there.
Hey, there’s a compromise we can discuss — the general availability of long arms, rather than concealed carry laws.
Anyways, my condolences to the family and friends of the murdered, especially given the conservative rush to use their deaths, as they do so many, to advance their pet causes.
Read an analysis of the influences in our “Chain Letter Society” that may be precipitating events like the tragedy at Virginia Tech and how our focus on winning and being number one may be fostering a generation of children with fully inadequate coping skills who have a misguided sense of self-worth…here:
Say it, they’re called SPOILED BRATS!
Let’s be fair. Everyone will rush to use this to advance their pet causes. Gun nuts will use it to argue for their fantasyland version of America, where every citizen carries a mandatory firearm and Everyone is Safe. Gun control freaks will use it to argue that all guns are bad, mmmm-kay, and no civilized person would ever own one. Corpse-humping ghouls like Jack Thompson will blame Grand Theft Auto. Meanwhile, all of those people will still be dead, nothing will really change, and we’ll do this whole song and dance again in a few years.
Yeah, I’m going to be avoiding the news for a while.
But what about all the Jack Thompsons that don’t hump corpses?
I agree. Hell, I’m still stuck on the first chapter of GTA: San Andreas. Time to get cracking, as it were.
I guess yet another way how this will mimic Imus: everyone that’s interviewed in the media (after interviewing the students who went through this) will have one or more axes to grind. Gun control on one side, 2nd Amendment purists on the other.
Yup, gotta feed the media beast.
To keep things in perspective, at least 30 bodies turned up today in Baghdad. Any thick politician idiot going to stand up and say again how Baghdad isn’t any more dangerous than Washington D.C. or Detroit?
Remember, according to Paul L. and his ilk, we’re the Party of Death…
I’m being rather restrained. VT had a shooting in August and the response was better. So, let’s say the school had a really bad fire in August and some students died. OK, shit happens. But then there’s another fire in April and still more students die. Yeah, people are going to look at you funny. They’re going to make rude comments.
The logic being once someone blows away their girl/boyfriend they’re done with killing and will go sit somewhere quietly until the cops come calling.
Chad N. Freude
That’s being fair and balanced. The gun guys are disconsolate because the victims couldn’t shoot back (and kill each other in the panic).
Chad N. Freude
I’ll take them seriously when they join a fucking MILITIA!
A clarification: No students were shot when an armed escaped con (who’d already killed a hospital) guard came a-calling on VT in August. But it should have been a cue for the Admin. to think “Shit that was close, what should we do the next time?”
Basically I’m extremely fucking tired of people in positions of responsibility breaking out the Dr. Rice Book of Deniability Semantics when things go wrong.
This just in: After hearing about the school shooting at VT, President Bush ordered troops to invade UNC.
I’m no gun nut, and certainly don’t approve of handguns, but if there’s someone who has no qualms about dying, and wants to take a bunch of people with him, they’re going to find a way – gun or no gun. If he hadn’t gotten a gun, and if he was that determined to do what he did, he could have made a bomb.
I think people generalize too much when they talk about guns and gun laws. My grandfather and the rifles he uses to hunt partridge are a far cry from some nutbar with an assault rifle.
No kidding. The shooter was still on the loose. So what to do? Leave the campus open and warn the students 2 hours later, just in time for the massacre to begin. That’s awesome.
Crazy times. I agree with you, Dick. In the fullness of time, I suppose we’ll discover whether lessons weren’t learned from the shooting earlier in the year, and we can determine from that whether any of the University Administration are ready to take their honored places in the United States Government.
Ah, but making bombs is a danger to the bomb-maker, too. How will he get his revenge if he blows himself up first? Besides, getting the bomb to the target is somewhat more chancy than hauling out a gun and shooting it, as we all know from all the cases where the wrong person got blown up, or was only a little injured when he should have been killed–or when nobody was hurt at all.
It’s interesting that the only example anybody could find of anything like this happening in India (strict gun control) was in a tribal area of the Himalayas that is not under central government control. But anyhow, back to Iraq:
The thought is that “more guns” is the answer to violence. Okay, so let’s give every American an AK-47 and a RPG launcher. After all, that made Iraq this peaceful place, right?
Well, no. What Iraq shows is that if a decent man and a criminal are both equally armed, the decent man is dead. See, the whole deal with crimianls is that they lack morals. Thus they have no qualms about simply shooting someone else who is armed. They love the smell of blood and the sight of spattered brains in the morning. It makes them happy. Meanwhile, any decent human being is busy retching up his breakfast in that situation. The criminal will simply pull the trigger. The decent man will doubt, will hesitate, will ask himself “is killing the only thing left to do now?”. Then the criminal will pull the trigger while the decent man is hesitating, and the decent man will be dead.
Okay, so what’s the answer? Well, in most civilized nations, the answer is simple — restrict access to weapons in order to insure that the State has both quantitative and qualitative superiority in killing power. It seems to work. It has a little bit of a downside, which is that if the State has a monopoly on deadly force, then a politician who siezes control of the mechanisms of the State can impose a dictatorship upon the people quite easily, but Saddam’s Iraq proves that a monopoly on deadly force isn’t necessary to impose a dictatorship. All that’s necessary is to be more brutal, more vicious, more immoral than the majority of honest decent people.
In short, more guns isn’t the solution, because the Libertopian silliness of “a well armed society is a polite society” just plain fails the giggle test. We have too many examples elsewise, whether you’re talking about tribal areas of India and Pakistan, the entire nation of Iraq, or the entire nation of Somalia. A well armed society is a scared society, where the vast majority of honest decent people cringe in horror as gangs of moral-less goons and thugs rule the streets.
On the other hand, as someone else noted, unilateral disarmament isn’t a good solution either. So perhaps the notion of the State having a monopoly upon deadly force needs to be honestly investigated, rather than outright dismissed on ideological grounds. As a practical man, I’m not particularly interested in ideology either way. The question is what works, and how can we get from where we are now to what works. Until we discard the ideology and start talking reality, we’ll never get from point A to point B.
No. I think you’re dead wrong (no pun intended) on that one BadTux. I think this can be dismissed out of hand.
The moment you close your mind and refuse to consider ideas is the moment you’re part of the problem, not part of the solution. Enough said.
You say “India where things like this never happen”. I posted a counter example and now you are moving the goal posts. How many incidents do I have to find before you stop moving the goalposts?
It appears that the shooter was here on a student visa. I am sure you guys will place no blame on the state department.
At the risk on being called a xenophobe, we should send him to Gitmo.
Come on. Making a bomb takes time, skill and steady hands (to name a few things). Grabbing a gun takes…grabbing a gun. A three year old can do it if mommy and daddy aren’t careful about keeping the things locked up.
But then I live just outside of DC where pathetic little twits spend their time shooting each other and innocent bystanders because they can. If these jackasses had to make bombs before they could kill a rival they’d probably revert to baseball bats and chains. Sure, some people will still die but they big bad killers would have to get out of their cars and get close to their target and their target would have time to grab his baseball bat or chain. That’s why I say guns give cowards power they don’t need.
But to clarify, I don’t have as much of a problem with rifles and other weapons you can’t tuck in your pants, if you have the ability to wipe out several dozen in a few minutes people I want to see you coming. I don’t regard hunters as dangerous gun nuts. (Provided they aren’t hunting peole.) I regard hunters as the guys who might save us from the massive herds of deer around the place.
However, I think Chris Rock hit on the best solution: Let anyone have a gun and charge $500 bucks for a bullet.
True. But to use the argument that if he hadn’t had a gun, this tragedy would have never happened — well, that’s doubtful. Difficulty in obtaining a gun would prevent a lot of impulse crimes, absolutely. And for that reason alone, it’s definitely worthwhile.
But it’ll do nothing to prevent those who are determined, and that needs to be recognized and addressed, or else we’re just slapping figurative band-aids on the solution. They’ll either find a gun in some other way, or will use other methods. I think part of the solution needs to be some intense training for campus security, local police forces, and national law enforcement. Train them up to the absolute gills to deal with situations like that, so that should a situation like this happen again, it can hopefully be rectified with as little loss of life as is possible.
Don’t get me wrong — I loathe handguns. However, when there are any cases of gun violence, we tend to hear broad, sweeping generalizations about guns in general, leading to such expensive little projects as the longgun registration here in Canada.
I think I agree with you about Chris Rock’s idea, though. :)
Right. Look at it this way. You can’t drive a car off a lot without a driver’s license and insurance. You have to know how to drive before you get the car. That doesn’t stop people from behaving like idiots once they get behind the wheel. The big news in DC before this happened was a road rage incident in which a guy was tearing around in a convertible, swerved to avoid hitting the guy he was tailgating, went over the embankment and because neither he nor his passenger were wearing seat belts they were thrown from the car and died. (Yes, I know, if you flip in a convertible you’re going to die anyway, but anyway…)
Road rager’s license had been suspended so you can say, nothing would have stopped this guy from hurting someone, aren’t we lucky he won’t be doing that again? Same as with guns.
But at least there was a check on his getting a car in the first place. He had to show the ability to operate the car. I think the same would work for guns and it would make a lot of people think before they bought one. You want to buy a gun? Fine, first you go to this place and show you know how to use it, we’ll take your picture and you can buy your gun. And why not make hand-gun owners buy some sort of insurance? Sure, you’ll still have people who get guns illegally just like you’ll still have wankers who drive recklessly but it would be a start.
Mm. I can’t disagree with you there. I think most responsible gun owners would feel the same way. During the whole long-gun registration fiasco, a lot of people around here were annoyed — they have no issue with people having to take a safety course in order to get their firearms permit, but were pretty strongly of the opinion that having to tell the government how many (and what kind of) guns you own, and having to pay for this privilege, both upfront, and with our tax dollars, was utterly ridiculous.
Just found out the Killer is dead. Should amend statement to if we caught him alive we we should send him to Gitmo.
IMO 32 people do not die unless a gun is involved. (i am rejecting your bomb making alternative.)
as far as what to do about the “problem” of guns…how about we outlaw everything but muzzleloaders or single shot derringers? then presumably bystanders can overwhelm the shooter while he is re-loading.
i don’t think automatic weapons was what the founding fathers had in mind when they wrote the 2nd amendment.
The Other Steve
Thank god, guns are banned in DC, because, otherwise, you know, well… what difference did that make again?
The US has a problem with shootings, but it’s clear from our past experience that banning guns isn’t the solution to that. The problem has something to do with the culture. The fact that we’re talking about this with such excitement on the news likely feeds that culture.
Other countries have as many if not more guns, and they don’t have quite as many problems. Why?
The Other Steve
Wow, you really are out of touch. They announced the killer was dead, oh I don’t know… about five minutes after they announced the shooting.
DUI, rape, littering are also illegal in and around DC but people still drive drunk, rape and litter. Crap, these lawas aren’t worth the paper they’re written on, the criminals have it right. Let’s revert to anarchy. Nature red in tooth and claw. Survival of the fittest. Raaaargh, give me red meat or give me death.
umm..which countries would those be? seriously.
Tom in Texas
Switzerland, for one, has a higher per capita gun ownership rate than the USA (IIRC, they provide every 18 year old male with a gun), but their rates are infinitesimal compared to ours.
the Swiss do not have as many guns as we do, which was TOS’s claim. (and i’m sure you know that but i just want to get on record.) The per capita ownership rate is higher because every male MUST serve in the military (or make a claim for alternative service) and they take their guns home. these are rifles..big borky ones. i’ve seen guys on the streets of geneva toting theirs home after returning from their yearly active service. i have never heard of a swiss army guy using his rifle for anything except military duty. and if you “loose” your weapon, watch out!
“loose” = “lose”
Finland is another example of a country with a higher rate of per capita firearms ownership than the US. New Zealand also has a rate that by some estimates is comparable to the US.
The question is who really is to blame? Why did this young man become so violent? I see a very trouble young man with very poor social skills. Reading his plays I would suspect some childhood abuse in his past. This young man had a very fragile ego to start with.. I agree with a commenter on CNN that something busted his bubble. What was that?
This young man with a fragile ego suffered one upset after another. The first was the rejection by the two females. It was natural for this young man to follow up on the urging of his fellow classmates to become more social, which means girls in our society. He however had an extreme lack of social skills. He however had a lot of pride and pressure from his culture to be someone. He therefore felt suicidal after the rejections and an encounter with the police. Patient was then taken in for observation by the police and introduced to our mental health system with the entire stigma involved. This was too much.
I proposed what caused the tragedy is our present trend towards a non-caring and greed based society. The laws passed by congress over the last few administration have been disastrous to freedom loving people. Our kids see it and our acting out, hence the shootings in schools.
Can’t people see the pattern? Every time democrats get into office, the powers that be try to erode our rights as citizens with new laws like the Brady bill or the newly considered bills by congress to require states to give information on citizen’s private lives for gun control. When republicans get into office, they fleece the country and enact laws like the Patriot act which further restrict our freedom.
Few see that what happened in Virginia is due to a general trend of hard heartedness pervasive in this country. Hardheartedness based on greed of those that run the press, big business and the government. Hard heartedness manifested in the Brady bill which gives no second chances. That assumes that a judicial system designed and run by men is so perfect that rights given by the constitution and the wisdom of our fore fathers can be taken away permanently without even the seven year forgiveness that the past writers of law tried to write in the law. A forgiveness based on the bible.
As for the mental health system, psychiatry is a science which even many practitioners, which I am one, realize lacks validity. We may have reproducible results in that you can get two psychiatrists to agree, but we lack validity in that there is usually no objective test that really determines rather a person in mentally ill. As is well documented, psychiatry is known for its abuses.
In addition what is the wisdom in using the civil case level of proof, as committing someone for mental reasons requires, counteracting the highest law, which the second amendment of the constitution is. Civil court does not require that you prove a case beyond reasonable doubt. On this basis I think must of the gun control laws involving mentally ill should be unconstitutional.
It all comes to the definition of freedom. Freedom is being defined by those who have wealth and power as their freedom to do and take as they please. How dare we interfere with this? We must be punished for our insolence. The new wave of punishment will come from there exploitation of this present situation. Many will feel okay to remain acquiescent because they do not feel threatened. But injustice is like a cancer. Although it is growing quietly, only a fool does not fear that it will not latter metastasize to affect the whole organism.