The Bush rebukes continue in earnest:
In a sharp rebuke to President Bush, House Republicans unveiled legislation Tuesday that would bar illegal immigrants from gaining legal status in the U.S., require tamper-proof birth certificates for Americans and make English the nation’s official language.
The measure’s core principles include gaining control of the border and enforcing existing immigration laws. It does not provide a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants, as the Bush plan does.
The House bill stands virtually no chance of becoming law, or even advancing, in the Democratic-controlled Congress. Still, it casts in bold relief the split between Bush and many fellow Republicans in the immigration debate.
Meanwhile, the White House, awlays concerned with the monied interests that fuel the GOP, continues their offensive:
Hoping to influence Congressional debate, the White House issued a report on Tuesday saying, “Immigration has a positive effect on the American economy as a whole and on the income of native-born American workers.”
But it acknowledged that some research had found “small negative effects” on the wages of the least-skilled American workers.
The report, prepared by the president’s Council of Economic Advisers, says immigrants enhance the productivity of native-born workers and increase their earnings a significant amount, estimated at $37 billion a year.
And there you have it. The Republican Party is now split between several warring factions- the bible thumping God squad whose chief issues are gay bashing, your sex life, and abortion; the monied Corporoate interests who care only about tax cuts and cheap labor; and the redneck wing whose only concerns are a bellicose foreign policy and keeping brown people out of the country. All the sane people have left or refuse to publicly acknowledge they are Republican.
Fruitbat Jones
Isn’t this akin to saying something like “Hoping to get 4-year olds to grasp quantum theory,”?
Seriously, does the WH really think they’re going to change the minds of Serious People who just know that’s it’s feasible, simple, straightforward, and cheap to simply deport 12 million brown-skinners (not including their children, of course, who can stay, as long as 1st graders can cook for themselves and pay rent)??
Why offer them citizenship (after jumping thru about 147 hurdles) when it’s just so easy to send them all back to…uh…where the fuck will we send ’em again? What’s Southworst Airlines gunna charge for 12 million seats back to Honduras?
Rusty Shackleford
“In a sharp rebuke to President Bush, House Republicans unveiled legislation Tuesday that would bar illegal immigrants from gaining legal status in the U.S., require tamper-proof birth certificates for Americans and make English the nation’s official language.”
If I were a Democrat I would add a few amendments to the Republican bill. First, I would attach a tax increase to the bill because if you’re not going to grant illegals a path to citizenship eventually you’re going to have to arrest/detain/deport 12M-20M people – and that’s going to cost money. Second, if all Americans need tamper-proof birth certificates then all gun owners need some sort of tamper-proof registration ID. And lastly, if English is to become the official language then English proficiency tests should be required to do things like vote. I’ll bet those latte sipping islamocommuabortofascists elites do better on the tests than the slackjawed yokels from fly-over country.
RSA
I also find this part amazingly confused. First, in everything I’ve ever used my notarized birth certificate copy for, nothing would have prevented someone else from having used it to impersonate me. Second, this puts an enormous burden on county and city operations, where this kind of processing is done–they can’t seriously be thinking of federalizing it, can they? Third, the supporters of this are some of the same people, I think, who object most strenuously to national ID cards (“Ihre Papiere, bitte!”) I can only imagine in their tiny minds that they want such rules only to apply to brown people.
Punchy
You show me “tamper-proof”, and I’ll show you a college freshman with Adobe, one bitching Apple Mac lappy, 4 hours until his Western Civ class, and a brand new birth certy by lunchtime.
Tony Alva
The cynicism is getting too much to take here.
The God Squad influence is fading fast, people are wearing on big B influence on BOTH parties, 80% of the country wants our Mexican border secure, and is steadfastly against providing the reward of citizenship to anybody who came here illegally no matter what ALL the politicians in Washington think and no matter their hidden agendas. With the exception of the war, it sounds like things are getting much saner to me. It feels like people are finally able to see how badly their elected officials are representing them (hell, the disappointment the Dems are feeling of their wimpy leadership for not stopping the war makes the letdown bipartisan). Hopefully, all of us will take a hard look at who we vote for next. It certainly seems that the immigration issue is rallying the “unwashed voter masses” to demand their elected officials represent them and their wishes.
Maybe Dr. Suess had it all right with his Star Bellied Sneeches book. Maybe party line distinction is blurring a bit. Whatever it is that’s going on, I think is a step in the right direction.
semper fubar
First, in everything I’ve ever used my notarized birth certificate copy for, nothing would have prevented someone else from having used it to impersonate me.
Sure-fire slack-jawed republican yokel solution: “Ya have to have yer picture on it, dumbass! Jes’ like yer driver’s license!”
(I know I still look like I did when I was 3 minutes old. What’s the problem here?)
Rusty Shackleford
I’ll agree that 80% of the nation wants our border secure but not with the 80% is steadfastly against allowing illegals a path to citizenship. If you don’t give them a path to citizenship then you’re eventually going to have to detain & deport 12M-20M people. Not. Gonna. Happen.
You think the Elian Gonzalez picture had an impact wait until the pictures of the illegal parents being arrested in front of their legal, American-born children.
mclaren
When are we gonna stop with the “rebukes” of the drunk-driving C student and start the impeachment?
The only warring factions in the Republican party are the ones who want to torture us before killing us, and the Repubs who want to kill us first and then have sex with our dead corpses.
Barry
Tony Alva: “80% of the country wants our Mexican border secure, and is steadfastly against providing the reward of citizenship to anybody who came here illegally no matter what ALL the politicians in Washington think and no matter their hidden agendas. ”
I think that you’re confusing the Tancredo Party with the American people.
Punchy
Care to give a link to this statement? Oh, wait, like this?
(CBSnews.com….link isn’t working.)
Please just STFU with your “everyone wants the brown peopel deported” bullshit.
Zifnab
Fine. If we want to be all elitest with our language, I think Dems should start amending the bill to makes sure that lines are called queues, trunks are called boots, teachers are mandated to teach the proper present perfect tense, and colour be spelled with a ‘u’.
Also, since we’re all so fond of English, everyone should be required to drop their existing Texas drawls, Georgia slang, Mississippi lisps, and Alabama mumbles, and affect proper British accents at all times.
The Other Steve
Does this bill require tamper proof almost born certificates? you know for all the angel babies out there?
If not, what’s going to stop a terrorist from taken an almost born certificate and applying for a drivers license?
les
When do the idiots give up? If the mere existence of 12 MM violators doesn’t tell you that current laws cannot be enforced? I’m starting to think global warming isn’t the main problem, it’s whatever is in the environment that is steadily reducing the national IQ.
Tony Alva
Yep hangin’ labels Punchy same ole’ meme…
Here’s my plan, offer 12 million people greencards for a fee of roughly $500. For each fee collected, bounce one who hopped the fence illegally. That should cover their one way air fare.
No matter how much you and whatever party you’re affiliated with want to polarize anybody and everybody with your hate rap, most of us simply have a problem with rewarding illegal activity of any sort while so many are patiently waiting to do the right thing. Those people should reep the rewards of immigartion reform no matter theri skin color asswipe. Why does that bother you so much?
Why not tell me more about all the things you know about me.
Pug
See, here’s what we do: At birth, in America of course, we implant a microchip in every baby’s butt. Then, we encode all that baby’s information on the chip. Then, every school, employer, doctor or law enforcement agency can use the same chip throughout the child’s life to either read or encode whatever data might be relevant.
Voila! Tamper-proof. No more lying about citizenship, medical history, criminal records, educational credentials, drug use or anything else. It’s perfect.
Punchy
Holy fucking crap. Snowflake Terrorists. Never even considered this. Better be an amendment added to this bill to address the question of whether these Snowflakes really do stand a chance in Hell. Hell, MI, of course.
yet another jeff
Yet another case of “I couldn’t fix your brakes so I made your horn louder.”
Tamper proof birth certificates won’t help, the terrorist illegals will just travel back in time to the 80’s and use a birth certificate to get a drivers license and then terrorize us all with in impolite number of people in a cheap apartment and driving around without auto liability insurance.
We’re doomed.
Punchy
Tony said 80% of the country is steadfastly against allowing illegals a path to citizenship. I asked for a link to such a startling number. I even offered a completely opposite poll result to explain the genesis of my disbelief.
I’m still waiting for the link to your incredible claim. Put up or shut up, that’s all.
Face
Mr. Alva–
Here’s what I cannot figure out. Send them where? Do you think Mexico will simply take back–I’m guessing here–maybe 10 of those 12 million? You honestly think we can land 40 thousand planes (10,000,000/250 per plane) in Mexico City?
See, it’s just far too easy for your “solutions” to be so logistically empty. It’s so much easier to make boilerplate statements like “send ’em back!” without even considering if that’s even possible. It’s not. Mexico doesn’t want them, doesn’t need them; where are you going to put all the guarenteed orphans (most of the kids are citizens!) that will result? Will the government spring for the billions necessary for such foster care? Are there enough foster families?
I could go on with questions for hours; I’d love to see you address these ones explicitly right here on this blog before you go and trash other posters. You, the one with the soundbite, but have offered nothing in the way of substance. We await your response.
Tsulagi
Wow, an accurate summation of the current whole of the Republican party in just one sentence. Impressive.
With members from all three forming their special Dept. of Defense, the fighting 28%er Short Bus Brigades. Who just know if they can find the right school to paint, the right pair of balls to crush, the ME will be magically transformed into a new Garden of Eden. Like an open air Creation Museum. Heterosexual ponies will run free. Known truth.
RSA
TSA officer of the future: “Please sit on the scanner, sir, so that we can verify your information. If you decline, I’m going to have to stick this electronic wand up your ass.”
So, on identification cards: My wife and I are heading off to the UK next week. About four weeks ago we realized her passport was out of date. The passport Web site said that there was a six week turnaround time for regular processing, so we went the “expedited” route, paid an extra $67 and overnight shipping, and got a renewed passport ten days later. In the meantime I read in the newspaper that some people are having to wait several months for their passports to arrive, others are traveling across the U.S. to stand in line at passport offices, and it’ll be pretty much a balls-up for the foreseeable future. Jesus. I consider myself lucky, and I wonder what the hell is going on.
Dreggas
Ya know, English is the De Facto national language, why do we need a law or whatever saying it is? I mean I can understand to some extent, I live in the OC in Santa Ana specifically where the majority of the population are Mexican immigrants many of whom don’t know English whatsoever, they get by because they live in a community where they don’t have to learn the language in order to get by, or their kids who went to school here translate for them.
Then there are my co-workers, one an immigrant from Russia and several others from India, all of them are fluent in English, they learned the language so they could get ahead and because they wanted to be American.
This issue frustrates me because no matter what if you think english should be the national language, much as other countries have their own official language, then you are somehow a racist which is pure BS.
The Other Steve
I don’t hate rap. What makes you think i hate rap music?
The Other Steve
Because conservatives believe in Big Government solutions, instead of relying about the Free Market to work things out.
Note the irony.
Tony Alva
Face,
How realistic is it that anyone could “round’em up” all at one time even if we wanted to? Not my suggestion. Attrition. If they’re arrested deport them, coupled with tightening the grip on employers and access to social services. While the fact that families get split up is sad, it’s sad when families of US citizens are split up do to a parent being sent to prison. I don’t see a distinction. Criminals reap rewards and ill gotten gains from their enterprises and should we weep for Tony Sopranos family because it all gets confiscated after his indictment? Should we give them a pass on it? Sure Tony, we’re going to send you away, but you and the family will keep the millions you’ve made. How ‘bout Ken Lay’s window? Should she keep her life style built on the backs of Enron employees simply because she herself may not have had anything directly to do with the shenanigans? I know, we’re not talking about millionaires here, but most drug dealers leave unfed families behind all the time too and we’re not giving them a pass.
Mexico doesn’t want them back? Too bad. Nations are returned their deportees all the time whether they feel they are desirable or not. Where is Mexico’s accountability to this problem any way? I’d be all for helping them if they were interested, but alas it appears they are not, are they.
I’ll take whatever else the bill has to offer EXCEPT path to citizenship that steps over the others out there who have waited patiently to do the right thing and I’m confident many others feel the same way. From all I’ve read and heard it sounds like a good place to START.
Chad N. Freude
Speaking of illegal immigration,
I’ll bet that conquistador didn’t have a proper visa.
Oh, wait, that was a white guy defending his country from brown people. The Incan deserved to be shot because he didn’t have a visa.
Dreggas
ROFLMAO.
Yeah, Irony noted. Like I said I am split on this one, it doesn’t do much harm to put it on the books, it only does so because it’s viewed as racist.
Honestly I wish it was official at times so my tax dollars wouldn’t go to things like covering the printing of driving tests in 20 or so languages like they have here in CA.
In NY there were no multiple language options, you took the test in English because, well, that’s the language. Don’t get me wrong people need to know the laws and language is a barrier to that but at the same time there are immigrants, legal or otherwise, coming from many parts of the world to this country who learned English before coming here or learned it really quick once they arrived. That’s where my beef lies, in those who won’t bother learning the language because they can “get by” without doing so.
Chad N. Freude
Perhaps a course in critical thinking might help. There is a distinction between people who perform aggressive physical acts against others (including murder and theft) and people who violate a law not directed against such acts.
jg
Who’s paying for that? Rounding up illegals, detaining them, processing them and deporting them will cost billions.
Ever heard the term ‘false positive’?
jg
I predict the republicans in congress will make a show of trying to do what the wingnut talk radio assholes are saying ‘most good thinking americans want’ and blame the democrats when it all goes to shit. i realize I’m going out on a limb here. Folks like Tony Alva (still skating with Peralta?) will talk about how what they want isn’t partisan, its good for america, but we’ll see where he is in a few months.
Zifnab
Alright, I’ve had it with this “but what about the good, honest, hardworking people who are still waiting in line?” defense. If 20 million more illegals flooded over the border tomorrow, we’d still only let in 40k people from Latin America per year. If every one of the 20 million illegals were to immediately hop back over the fence and get in line, we’d still only let in 40k people from Latin America per year. Illegals have absolutely no incentive to get in line, because they’ll never make it here in their lifetimes. Legal applicants lose nothing from illegal immigration because they’re typically middle- or upper-class skilled workers with money, education, and connections who the system lovingly embraces anyway.
There aren’t any Ph.D. students forced to wait in Montery for another year because a 20-something hoped the fence in California to mow my lawn. There aren’t any migrant crop-pickers with no English skills and no money that the Immigration Office will suddenly process applications for because the number of illegals in Florida dropped.
The “get back in line and wait your turn” meme is an absolute myth. Total bullshit. The “rule” of immigration is a fucking joke, and everyone knows it. We’ve got the haves and the have-nots, and we let the haves in and leave the nots out. If you want to get into this country you either need clout and connections or a good pair of running shoes.
Tsulagi
Some friends of mine, a married couple, are caught up in that trying to get a passport for their son. They think they’ll cancel their trip while they can still get partial refunds.
The problem? Two years ago the State Dept. put new regs to be effective this year requiring passports for travel to areas and returning where before govt. ID and/or birth certificates were acceptable. Places like Canada, Mexico, and the Caribbean.
My friends have been waiting almost three months. They can’t get an appointment in a regional office to maybe expedite the process because they only get recordings when calling those offices to try later. They’ve been trying for weeks.
Cue Condi: “No one could ever imagined requiring passports would cause people to apply for them.” As always, nothing but brilliance from this admin in all things.
The Other Andrew
Tony,
Just because I’m curious, would you support raising taxes to deal with illegal immigration?
pacified
for the record.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-poll13jun13,1,7264500.story?coll=la-headlines-nation&ctrack=1&cset=true
63% of Americans support a path to citizenship.
only 23% think we should deport ’em.
Sorry Tony. You’re just WRONG.
Zifnab
I think the operative word is “Lying”.
Tony Alva
It’s interesting that you think I think of myself as a Republican. Moron.
The Other Andrew,
Yes.
Tony Alva
JG,
Stacy and I still skate a backyard pool every now and again, but he split to form Powell/Peralta and the Bones Brigade decades ago. Appreciate you still caring though.
RSA
Whenever I’m at the grocery store in a long line at one of the registers, and I hear over the speaker system, “Register 4 is now open,” I think, “What the fuck? I’ve been waiting patiently here for ten minutes! Close that register and let everyone behind me wait just as long as I have!”
Face
So the “too bad” diplomacy will work, eh? While this works on 5-year olds, I fail to see how this works on other nations. Should we then fly 40K flights into Mexico, load up 500 (?) cruise boats into Acapalco, or herd them like huge flocks of sheep and force them over the barbed wire fence that forms the border? Which method works best?
All of this, of course, immaterial of whether the Mexican gov’t approves. So we can violate their airspace, coastline, and dignity just….because?
jg
‘Should we then fly 40K flights into Mexico, load up 500 (?) cruise boats into Acapalco, or herd them like huge flocks of sheep and force them over the barbed wire fence that forms the border? Which method works best?
‘
Can we put them in camps and then ship them out on trains?
Do brown people turn pink when you gas’em?
Randolph Fritz
The missing piece here is that, at least here in Oregon, most of the Mexicans who’ve crossed the border were starving at home–most of the Mexicans we see in Oregon are poor farmers from places like Michoacan, not middle-class types from the Mexico City. ‘Tain’t gonna work; their stomachs have a louder voice than our laws. There’s a trade problem (subsidized US and Chinese exports), a US labor law problem, enormous structural problems within Mexico, and probably other issues I am unaware of. And, yes, of course I would like to see the trade and structural problems cleared up. And so would most Mexicans, who love their country, hate their government, and would like to stay in Mexico. Ever-increasing levels of enforcement will create more problems; they’ll kill a lot of people and strengthen the US police state.
Hmpf. Amateurs.
liberal
Rusty Shackleford wrote, “…if you’re not going to grant illegals a path to citizenship eventually you’re going to have to arrest/detain/deport 12M-20M people…”
That’s only if you crack down on the immigrants themselves.
If, instead, you crack down on employers—and I mean _really_ crack down—illegal immigrants will leave on their own accord.
srv
As Darrell would say, it’s who they are.
liberal
Zibnab wrote, “We’ve got the haves and the have-nots, and we let the haves in and leave the nots out.”
Nope. The AMA has keeps out immigrant MDs by erecting unreasonable barriers to employment in the US.
ThymeZone
Will not happen. Should not happen.
Great idea though. Great for the economy. Get millions of people fired and put them and their families out on the street and on the dole. Stop them from paying taxes, and buying things.
Really a great, great fucking idea, which is why in 75 years of almost unfettered immigration from Mexico, this approach has never been tried except on a theatrical, for-show basis now and then when somebody needed political cover.
Did I mention? It’s a GREAT FUCKING IDEA. Honestly. Why didn’t we think of it sooner? That’s the question.
ThymeZone
Just curious, though. Are you still referring to the GOP as “your” party? Or are you finally ready to come over the Dark Side with us? We are ready to teach you the secret handshake.
ThymeZone
Heck, you can even join our mailing list :)
George B.
9/11 changed everything.
Rome Again
Well, it certainly changed the national IQ, overnight!
Chad N. Freude
It may have dropped George B’s into single digits. The phrase
is the only sentence he ever posts. The first dozen or so times the sarcasm was OK, but now it looks like GB is actually a Turing test gone awry.
The Other Andrew
Thanks for answering my question, Tony.
I’m afraid that you’ve taken a square-in-the-middle position that not many people will support. The anti-tax wing of the Republicans will never allow taxes to be raised to combat illegal immigration, and the corporatist wing won’t let them go after employers. Likewise, the Democrats have to know that there’s no point in appealing to the people who want illegal immigrants dealt with in a “Look how tough I am!” way, as they require an extreme that’s politically unwise and logistically impossible. And why would they want to stop something that could get them millions of new voters?
You’ve said that many people agree with you…that may very well be true, and you may very well be able to skew 2008. But it’ll be a short-term victory at best. If I were the Democratic establishment, I’d happily lose one Presidential election if it meant locking up a growing demographic.
When talking about the Bush administration–and those on the right eager to replace it–we’re talking about theocrats, criminals, and general lunatics who want to drive America into the ground even more than it already is. We need all the help we can get. In WWII, we used the atomic bomb to secure a greater good. If all we have to do this time is forgive the relatively miniscule crime of being here illegally, I’m all for it.
ConservativelyLiberal
I view the immigration problem like the grocery store problem noted above, but with a slightly different twist. People are standing in lines waiting to check out. All of the lines are open, registers manned. While you are standing in line, some people are just walking out of the store without even checking out. And the store is doing nothing about it.
Sorry, but I do not feel one iota of sympathy for people sho came here illegally. Blast off with the all of the xenophobe and racist accusations you want, just because you choose to define my position without actually knowing who I am does not make you right. It means that you are just another opinionated asshat.
Laws are laws, we do not get to pick and choose which ones are fair and which are not. We can only enforce them or change them. In this case, I want them enforced. But that is just my opinion. I speak only for myself.
I have no problem with raising taxes to cover real enforcement, and I do not think that we will need to deport masses of people. All we have to do is fine businesses and even jail business owners who hire illegals, and soon the jobs will dry up. Rather than push the illegals into migrating back to their country when there are no jobs, we can offer them transportation back.
Just to make sure that nobody starves when the jobs dry up, open government centers that offer care and feeding for illegals. But if they show up there, they have to agree to be deported.
There are a number of ways that this could be done, but there is this touchy-feely thing going on in congress critters (and our insane prez’s) heads. One side wants the perceived voters they would get out of this, and the other wants cheap labor.
One thing that people do not talk about is the fact that once these people are made legal, they are not going to sit still for low paying jobs. They are going to want more, as they would have a right to in America. What happens to the cheap labor then? We will need more of it, and border osmosis will once again cover the slack.
Over and over it will play again. With no end in sight. Lets just legalize this batch and be done with it, right? Hardly.
scarshapedstar
This isn’t a new state of affairs. What remains to be seen is whether, like the swallows returning to Capistrano, they will wistfully slide on the ol’ jackboots, use their thumb and forefinger to arrange their mouth into a smile, and go out and vote Republican once more, you know, one last “eat shit and die” to all the liberals, all the arabs, all the euroweenies, everyone who thought America might finally awake from this nightmare.
Never, ever, underestimate the spite vote.
scarshapedstar
This isn’t a new state of affairs. What remains to be seen is whether, like the swallows returning to Capistrano, they will wistfully slide on the ol’ jackboots, use their thumb and forefinger to arrange their mouth into a smile, and go out and vote Republican once more, you know, one last “eat shit and die” to all the liberals, all the arabs, all the euroweenies, everyone who thought America might finally awaken from this nightmare.
Never, ever, underestimate the spite vote.
Punchy
Like trains? Do they get to take showers when they finally reach their destination?
Tony Alva
ConservativelyLiberal:
That makes two of us Balloon Juice readers who think this way at least…
In addition to the cyclical and reoccurring problems you’ve identified, is the drain from instant access to social services that the Z visa folks will now be entitled to. I think we can have immigration reform that simply secures the borders, enforces the law, re-engineers the legitimate process that is clearly too convoluted in its’ current state, and does NOT reward those who have chosen to flagrantly break the law. While these collection centers may be a stretch, I do believe that if you cut off access by enforcement of employment law, they will have no choice but to retreat home. Attrition with humanitarian assistance home, NOT some wild west type round up the hyper media draws up.
Truly, the bottom line is that any process starts with ensuring the rule of law is enforced. If those laws need to be changed, change them with due process, but defacto suspension of the rule of law until that time is simply NOT an option.
Tony Alva
ConservativelyLiberal:
That makes two of us Balloon Juice readers who think this way at least…
In addition to the cyclical and reoccurring problems you’ve identified, is the drain from instant access to social services that the Z visa folks will now be entitled to. I think we can have immigration reform that simply secures the borders, enforces the law, re-engineers the legitimate process that is clearly too convoluted in its’ current state, and does NOT reward those who have chosen to flagrantly break the law. While these collection centers may be a stretch, I do believe that if you cut off access by enforcement of employment law, they will have no choice but to retreat home. Attrition with humanitarian assistance home, NOT some wild west type round up the hyper media draws up.
Truly, the bottom line is that any process starts with ensuring the rule of law is enforced. If those laws need to be changed, change them with due process, but defacto suspension of the rule of law until that time is simply NOT an option.
Rome Again
Chad N. Freude Says:
Hmmm, B must be for Bush, eh?
George B.
9/11 changed everything.
HyperIon
this is stoopid!
hmm…i was born here, am ridiculously over-educated, and IMO ridiculously under-paid. *i* want more. yet somehow the High Paying Job Fairy has not been able to find me. could it be because i am sitting still? yes, that must it.
jg
Nobody wants to reward them for breaking the law. I understand it makes opposition easier but it simly isn’t true. Amnesty is the only viable solution. We can’t round them up and send them home and the idea of frezing them out of jobs so they will just pack up and go home is laughable. Go home to what? Return home to a dirt poor third world country or stay in the leader of the free world. Hmmmm? Tough choice.
Why isn’t anyone arguing the merits of th eguest worker program the right fought for? All those who support right wing economics ought to take a look at how the right is looking out for the future of the common man.
grumpy realist
And before we do anything else, can we please fix that mess of incestuous dysfunctionalism called the Immigration Service?
Take all the horror stories you have ever heard about the Department of Motor Vehicles, combine them, raise it to 7 orders of magnitude, and you’re still not at 1% of the crappiness of our immigration system.
ConservativelyLiberal
I would not be for government rounding up of illegals, or transportation by ‘train’, with requisite showers. What I meant is that they should not starve and that they would be provided for if they need the help, with the understanding that asking for that help means that they are agreeing to be deported. I am all for revamping the current immigration system, and if these people want to get in line and re-enter legally, that is fine with me. Up the numbers as they are too low now. Add more lanes to the checkout, so to say.
And why roll this up in one bill? What is the reasoning behind this, except to slip provisions through that would otherwise not stand on their own merits. All-in-one packages are not the solution to a multi-faceted problem such as this. Deal with the issues separately, yet in the context of what ‘that’ problem is.
Our current immigration system is broken, of that there is no doubt. But a blanket get out of jail free card is not the solution, nor is a fence on the border. Like any other problem that has to be solved, you have to get to the source of the problem to fix it.
That source is the employers. Fix that problem, and the illegal immigration problem will be pretty much solved. If they can’t get jobs, they will try to enter legally so they can. Or go home. Most of the countries that these illegals are coming from are run by corrupt governments that have led to the conditions that force their citizens to leave the country. In one sense, we are providing a relief valve for these corrupt governments. If these people did not leave, it could eventually lead to civil disorder, and this would force those governments to change. So in a way, we are complicit in keeping these corrupt governments in power.
The solutions are there, but it will never happen as it makes too much sense to do it right when the process can be gamed now by interest groups that only have their interests at heart, not those of our nation.
This is one issue that I will not move from, illegal is illegal. If I can be sentenced to incarceration when my new wife was having a difficult pregnancy, I see no reason not to toss them in for identity theft and whatever else they have done. If the government cares less about my family, why should they care about the families of illegals? That really pisses me off.