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You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Why Losing Stature Matters

Why Losing Stature Matters

by Tim F|  June 26, 20078:05 am| 10 Comments

This post is in: Foreign Affairs, War on Terror aka GSAVE®

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Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, lying to the UN General Assembly about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction and so much more have not just damaged America by inspiring a new generation of terrorists, they also reduce America’s ability to lead in the world. Wild-eyed moonbats like me have warned for years that countries which could go one way or the other will start to swing hard against us. Behave like a rogue state for long enough and you start to get treated like one.

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10Comments

  1. 1.

    person of choler

    June 26, 2007 at 8:22 am

    It just breaks my heart to learn that the leaders of Algeria, Morocco, Libya, Egypt, Djibouti and the African Union don’t want our soldiers in Africa to get mixed up in their intertribal slaughter fests.

    I’ll bet that you, too, are sad, that we are not likely to have our people in harms way in these violent and unstable areas. There won’t be any Americans killed and you will have one less thing to validate your Bush Derangement Syndrome.

    Best Regards

  2. 2.

    Tim F.

    June 26, 2007 at 8:37 am

    Thanks for sharing, choler. I’m pleased to hear that you don’t think we should have any productive collaborations with countries where terrorists are building a presence. It’s not like I need another reason to think that only loony libs take terrorism seriously but I appreciate the effort anyway.

  3. 3.

    person of choler

    June 26, 2007 at 8:56 am

    Tim F.

    I would be interested to know what sort of productive collaborations we would expect to have with the aforementioned countries.

    Terrorists incubate in these places because the governments are ineffective, corrupt, or active supporters of terrorism. An American military presence will not fix these “root causes” of terrorism but only give more of our citizens a chance to be car bombed or kidnapped and beheaded.

  4. 4.

    Tim F.

    June 26, 2007 at 9:06 am

    choler,

    Please stop making my case for me. If you want to confirm that rightwingers like yourself have a dangerously manichean view of the muslim world that always seems to lead us into strategic disasters then just say “agreed” and leave it at that.

    See, many of these countries have internal terrorist problems of their own. Do you think that Algeria likes having its markets blown up? I would posit that they do not. A training exchange to beef up their counterterrorism ops and a US base in the region to help take out troublesome hot spots would probably be much appreciated, if our international behavior (and, not least, our manichean worldview) had not made working with us political suicide.

  5. 5.

    mrmobi

    June 26, 2007 at 9:42 am

    Tim, yesterday Dick Lugar gave a major Iraq speech on the floor of the Senate. The totally short version is: the surge can’t work, we need to change course before events force a truly horrendous conclusion on us.

    He said that the Iraq war was damaging our credibility in the world, and seemed to propose pretty much what Murtha proposed two Novembers ago as a possible strategy. While he’s late to the game, I respect his knowledge and am glad to see another true conservative who has seen the light. It was a great speech, actually.

    Terrorists incubate in these places because the governments are ineffective, corrupt, or active supporters of terrorism. An American military presence will not fix these “root causes” of terrorism but only give more of our citizens a chance to be car bombed or kidnapped and beheaded.

    So, Person of choler, you seem to be indicating here that our foreign policy should be one of complete disengagement with any country where there are problems. I may be a wild-eyed liberal, but I’m no isolationist. I give Bush credit for the big dollars he’s pledged in Africa to fight AIDS. Even with the abstinence only nonsense provisions, this money is helping people get medicines that will save their lives. Good on him.
    I’ll bet you think building a giant fence at our southern border is a great idea PCholer, am I right?

  6. 6.

    les

    June 26, 2007 at 10:04 am

    I presume Person of Choler thinks we should immediately get the hell out of Iraq, then. Or is PoC not cursed with the consistency thing?

  7. 7.

    Jim Henley

    June 26, 2007 at 10:29 am

    I would totally see the Africom difficulties as terrible news if I thought the United States really ought to be setting up for yet more massive overseas deployments.

  8. 8.

    Tim F.

    June 26, 2007 at 10:46 am

    I would totally see the Africom difficulties as terrible news if I thought the United States really ought to be setting up for yet more massive overseas deployments.

    I would be more concerned about massive deployments if I thought that we were capable of massive deployments. Honestly, we’re not. I don’t have much problem with our government cooperating militarily with others on the frontline of the real terror war largely because necessity will pretty much limit us to advising and training. While true that we could be opening the door for something inadvisable further down the road, I don’t see the (probably quite real) slippery slope as enough reason to dismiss the useful and limited engagement that we could theoretically accomplish today.

  9. 9.

    HyperIon

    June 26, 2007 at 12:26 pm

    …Guantanamo, lying to the UN General Assembly about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction and so much more have not just damaged America

    Tim, i guess you did not read the NYT op-ed wherein we learn Gitmo…not an embarrassment anymore.

  10. 10.

    Lee

    June 26, 2007 at 3:34 pm

    I know the Marine that got the US base built in Djibouti (long story, but he is now an honorary citizen of Djibouti). It was used to monitor activities in Yemen across the Persian Gulf.

    It saddens me that all of his effort is wasted because of our incompetent Administration.

    Little factiod here:

    the Ambassador to Djibouti in 2002 was the grandson (great grandson?) of Admiral Yamamoto.

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