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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

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New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

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Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

It’s all just conspiracy shit beamed down from the mothership.

Jack Smith: “Why did you start campaigning in the middle of my investigation?!”

One way or another, he’s a liar.

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You are here: Home / Pravda On the Potomac

Pravda On the Potomac

by John Cole|  July 11, 20078:30 am| 92 Comments

This post is in: Republican Crime Syndicate - aka the Bush Admin.

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Nothing surprising here:

Former Surgeon General Richard H. Carmona told a Congressional panel Tuesday that top Bush administration officials repeatedly tried to weaken or suppress important public health reports because of political considerations.

The administration, Dr. Carmona said, would not allow him to speak or issue reports about stem cells, emergency contraception, sex education, or prison, mental and global health issues. Top officials delayed for years and tried to “water down” a landmark report on secondhand smoke, he said. Released last year, the report concluded that even brief exposure to cigarette smoke could cause immediate harm.

Dr. Carmona said he was ordered to mention President Bush three times on every page of his speeches. He also said he was asked to make speeches to support Republican political candidates and to attend political briefings.

And administration officials even discouraged him from attending the Special Olympics because, he said, of that charitable organization’s longtime ties to a “prominent family” that he refused to name.

It is going to take years to undo the damage of these guys. There is simply no facet of government which has not been infected by these hacks.

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Reader Interactions

92Comments

  1. 1.

    Paul L.

    July 11, 2007 at 8:54 am

    Too bad, the Bush Administration could not keep him from overhyping obesity and second hand smoke.
    SHS

    Richard Carmona (the U.S. Surgeon General) is little more than a megaphone for the public heath industry, and a rather hysterical one at that. This is the same guy who has said that obesity poses a bigger threat than terrorism, and that if it were up to him, we’d have a prohibition on all tobacco products. Hardly the voice of hard science and cold reason, or of striking the right balance between public health and personal freedom.

  2. 2.

    ThymeZone

    July 11, 2007 at 8:55 am

    top Bush administration officials repeatedly tried to weaken or suppress important public health reports because of political considerations.

    I can’t think of a better way to describe the Potatohead Government than to say that they’d put their politics above your health.

    Of the People, for the People, by the People. Lincoln could not have anticipated these fuckers.

  3. 3.

    ThymeZone

    July 11, 2007 at 8:59 am

    This is the same guy who has said that obesity poses a bigger threat than terrorism,

    I don’t have the numbers in front of me, but I’d be surprised if obesity didn’t kill more people in a day than terrorism has ever killed, in total, in this country.

    What kind of a dumb fucking remark are you making here, Paul?

    You just can’t help stepping on your own dick, can you?

  4. 4.

    Punchy

    July 11, 2007 at 9:00 am

    And how long, again, was this guy stealing paychecks? 3 years? 4?

    Looks like Dr. C has a case of The Powell!! Symptoms include diarrhea of the mouth after an incubation period of YEARS during which the afflicted show absolutely no ill-effects, and actually seem to relish in having such a disease. The antibiotic for this disease appears to be money, fame, and just discovered recently, hookers; removal of person from aforementioned environment causes an almost universal case of The Powell, although the onset could still take a few more years (depending on, of course, if the hookers are still droppin by, which used to be hard to figure out prior to the combination of dumbassness + cell phones).

    I recommend Dr. C see Iglesias, David, Cummins, Bud, and Comey, James for additional counseling and advice on how best to live with this crippling affliction.

  5. 5.

    Alan

    July 11, 2007 at 9:12 am

    The damage to the GOP will never be undone until the social cons are kicked out of the Party. But contrary to the “head in the sand” Republicans who believe the social cons are only given lip service, the GOP is firmly in the social cons’ control. So it ain’t gonna happen.

  6. 6.

    Jill

    July 11, 2007 at 9:14 am

    Too bad no one listened to the Bush critics/dirty hippies for the last 6 years, they said this was happening way back then.

  7. 7.

    Tom Gellhaus

    July 11, 2007 at 9:15 am

    Was Paul O’Neill the only senior-level official with any integrity ? He was forced out early on for not playing ball with this overly-political administration, and spoke up soon after leaving.

  8. 8.

    Chad N. Freude

    July 11, 2007 at 9:19 am

    This is the same guy who has said that obesity poses a bigger threat than terrorism,

    Let’s not bother to read the actual quote:

    (AP) America’s obesity epidemic will dwarf the threat of terrorism if the nation does not reduce the number of people who are severely overweight, the surgeon general said Wednesday.

    “Obesity is the terror within,” Richard Carmona said during a lecture at the University of South Carolina. “Unless we do something about it, the magnitude of the dilemma will dwarf 9-11 or any other terrorist attempt.”

    Unless we act to control increasing obesity, many more people will die from the consequences of obesity than from terrorist acts.
    Certainly the remark of a left-wing socialist government-control pro-terrorist loony with an anti-American agenda.

  9. 9.

    Chad N. Freude

    July 11, 2007 at 9:21 am

    Sorry, I should have linked to the quote.

  10. 10.

    Chad N. Freude

    July 11, 2007 at 9:26 am

    Punchy presents a real challenge. There may be a prize for the first person to submit the correct meaning of his post. Does anyone have the decoder ring?

  11. 11.

    DougJ

    July 11, 2007 at 9:39 am

    I haven’t read the post yet, but whatever it is that Bush did, Clinton did it too.

  12. 12.

    zmulls

    July 11, 2007 at 9:48 am

    I’m even more surprised about the Special Olympics line, which isn’t bolded. What sort of a rat-bastard do you have to be to tell someone not to go to the Special Olympics, just because you have a beef with one of the other contributors????

  13. 13.

    Rome Again

    July 11, 2007 at 10:00 am

    I’d like to predict right now that BushCo is so intrusive, that when Petraus’ report on the surge arrives, it’s going to say we must continue our push in Iraq, or else terrorists will be on the next plane to Milwaukee.

  14. 14.

    les

    July 11, 2007 at 10:01 am

    What sort of a rat-bastard do you have to be to tell someone not to go to the Special Olympics, just because you have a beef with one of the other contributors?

    Presumptively rhetorical. Oh well, he’s our rat bastard.

  15. 15.

    Chad N. Freude

    July 11, 2007 at 10:02 am

    What sort of a rat-bastard do you have to be to tell someone not to go to the Special Olympics, just because you have a beef with one of the other contributors????

    Somebody who really doesn’t like the Kennedy family.

  16. 16.

    Zifnab

    July 11, 2007 at 10:02 am

    I haven’t read the post yet, but whatever it is that Bush did, Clinton did it too worse.

    Fixed.

  17. 17.

    Paul L.

    July 11, 2007 at 10:02 am

    I don’t have the numbers in front of me, but I’d be surprised if obesity didn’t kill more people in a day than terrorism has ever killed, in total, in this country.

    Nice of you to use the “in this country” to limit the terrorism number. You will note the quote I posted does not say “in this country”.

    How about giving me some numbers of people dying directly from obesity.
    i.e.
    300,000 adult deaths in the United States each year are attributable to unhealthy dietary habits
    Of course that number got revised down (not that public health industry advocacy sites ever use the revised numbers).

    Is CDC changing its estimate of obesity-related deaths?
    Yes. We are no longer going to use the previous annual estimate of 365,000 deaths from poor nutrition and physical inactivity.
    Instead, CDC will state, “The latest study based on a nationally representative sample of U.S. adults estimates that about 112,000 deaths are associated with obesity each year in the United States.” However, because the science continues to evolve and Americans’ health status continues to change, this estimate will very likely change in the future as more data become available and improved methods are developed. Public health programs will continue to save more lives by promoting good nutrition and physical activity and preventing overweight and obesity in the first place.
    Because obesity has so many different effects on so many diseases, it is extremely difficult for doctors to identify obesity-related deaths reliably on death certificates. So,
    instead, scientists use complex modeling techniques to estimate deaths related to obesity.
    CDC is supporting research to improve these methods. This research is part of CDC’s follow-up to a December 2004 Institute of Medicine workshop, “Estimating the Contribution of Lifestyle-Related Factors to Preventable Death.

    Obesity Obsession.

    The CDC produced its estimates with a statistical ruse called “attributable risk” ― the fearmongers’ method of choice for alarming the public with large body counts. Attributable risk (search) could be the poster child for the saying, “garbage in, garbage out.”

    Without getting lost in the depths of statistical formulas, the key components of attributable risk calculations are statistical correlations between potential causes and effects, like overweight/obesity and premature death. But just because overweight/obesity and premature death might have been statistically correlated in some studies doesn’t mean that overweight/obesity has been proven to cause premature death.

    In the few studies that have reported correlations between overweight/obesity and premature death, the vast majority of the correlations are small, not statistically significant (that is, they may be due to chance) and, in short, are unreliable. Reported correlations between overweight/obesity with premature death don’t start to inspire even minimal confidence until the obesity in question is extreme ― cases where you only need common sense, not statistical hocus-pocus.

  18. 18.

    Chad N. Freude

    July 11, 2007 at 10:05 am

    we must continue our push in Iraq, or else terrorists will be loading boxes of fattening snacks on the next plane to Milwaukee

    Fixed.

  19. 19.

    les

    July 11, 2007 at 10:06 am

    Shorter Paul: let’s fire all the doctors while we focus on the real threat–scary brown people.

  20. 20.

    Punchy

    July 11, 2007 at 10:07 am

    Punchy presents a real challenge. There may be a prize for the first person to submit the correct meaning of his post. Does anyone have the decoder ring?

    I can’t help it if your reading acumen matches that of a teen-ager in Alabama. Ok, here’s the skinny–this guy is acting very much like Colin Powell did/does. Wallows in the fame, swallows pride (and perhaps other stuff), and disgraces himself and his position.

    Then, suddenly absent the spotlight and swelling with an odd colloidal dispersion of hubris, moxie, bravdo, and repentance, decides to vomit forth much angst, innuendo, and background. Conscience-clearing at a town-hall with a bunch of old white stiffs.

    Next time maybe I’ll write in crayon so you can feel more comfortable reading it.

  21. 21.

    Face

    July 11, 2007 at 10:12 am

    The CDC produced its estimates with a statistical ruse called “attributable risk” ― the fearmongers’ method of choice for alarming the public with large body counts.

    Was this pun intended?

  22. 22.

    ThymeZone

    July 11, 2007 at 10:16 am

    PaulL, you have erased all doubt that you are the biggest idiot that ever posted here.

    Seriously. I think we need to award some kind of prize.

    I’m thinking of a large dunce cap make out of foreskin.

  23. 23.

    ThymeZone

    July 11, 2007 at 10:16 am

    PaulL, you have erased all doubt that you are the biggest idiot that ever posted here.

    Seriously. I think we need to award some kind of prize.

    I’m thinking of a large dunce cap made out of foreskin.

  24. 24.

    Chad N. Freude

    July 11, 2007 at 10:20 am

    Paul L cites a Fox News report by an anti-junk-science crusader from the Cato Institute with not-quite-scientifically-unbiased credentials.

    I don’t know if the statistical claims quoted are valid or if the CDC is deliberately pushing a health agenda using false statistics, but I’m intrigued by the use of “fearmonger” in the text. Why is it that those who raise alarms about public health problems are labeled fearmongers, but those who raise alarms about terrorists swarming into the US if we leave Iraq are not?

  25. 25.

    Chad N. Freude

    July 11, 2007 at 10:23 am

    Next time maybe I’ll write in crayon so you can feel more comfortable reading it.

    Clear, well-structured declarative sentences will do, but thanks anyway.

  26. 26.

    The Other Steve

    July 11, 2007 at 10:23 am

    And administration officials even discouraged him from attending the Special Olympics because, he said, of that charitable organization’s longtime ties to a “prominent family” that he refused to name.

    The Special Olympics is Partisan?

    That one just blows my mind.

  27. 27.

    Hyperion

    July 11, 2007 at 10:23 am

    Paul L. Says:

    Too bad, the Bush Administration could not keep him from overhyping obesity and second hand smoke.

    re secondhand smoke

    i was unaware until recently of the possible role Polonium plays in the development of lung cancer.

    and PaulL: thanks for the jackalope release.

  28. 28.

    ThymeZone

    July 11, 2007 at 10:26 am

    I’m intrigued by the use of “fearmonger” in the text.

    Speaking of fearmongering, anybody have a You-Tube link to the idiot Chertoff saying that he has a “gut feeling” that Al Qaeda is up to something?

    We need it for the Potatohead How Fucking Dumb Do They Think We Are archives.

  29. 29.

    Chad N. Freude

    July 11, 2007 at 10:28 am

    Question for Punchy-

    Despite your distaste for Carmona, do you believe his allegations of political interference are true? Other people from other agencies have made similar allegations. If you don’t believe them, why not?

  30. 30.

    Andrew

    July 11, 2007 at 10:28 am

    I don’t see what is so difficult about this:
    The terrorists will stop at nothing to deliver universal health care and healthy dietary guidelines until they rule America with their Sharia-medical iron fist.

  31. 31.

    JWeidner

    July 11, 2007 at 10:28 am

    don’t know if the statistical claims quoted are valid or if the CDC is deliberately pushing a health agenda using false statistics, but I’m intrigued by the use of “fearmonger” in the text. Why is it that those who raise alarms about public health problems are labeled fearmongers, but those who raise alarms about terrorists swarming into the US if we leave Iraq are not?

    Because, dammit. You need to be scared of terraists and keep voting for the only party that can protect you. Beyond that, everything is liberal propaganda.

    Now, go shopping and support our economy.

  32. 32.

    Chad N. Freude

    July 11, 2007 at 10:31 am

    Now, go shopping and support our economy.

    Should I wait for the stores to open first?

  33. 33.

    Chad N. Freude

    July 11, 2007 at 10:34 am

    How Fucking Dumb Do They Think We Are

    If you have to ask, you’re too fucking dumb to know the answer.

  34. 34.

    Face

    July 11, 2007 at 10:41 am

    Question for Punchy-

    Despite your distaste for Carmona, do you believe his allegations of political interference are true? Other people from other agencies have made similar allegations. If you don’t believe them, why not?

    I believe everything he says. However, I have nothing but comtempt and disgust for these fuckers that steal paychecks for FOUR years, KNOWING they’re not doing their job, knowing they’re hurting Americans with disinformation, edited reports, outright lies, etc., yet never speak up until they’re safely out of gov’t and usually a good year or two into the speaking circuit that pays them millions.

    Fuck him and his accusations. 5 years too late. If he, or Powell, or Comey speak up on ANY of this malfeasance prior to Nov. ’04, we’d have President Kerry. So fuck him and his crocodile tears.

  35. 35.

    Punchy

    July 11, 2007 at 10:47 am

    Despite your distaste for Carmona, do you believe his allegations of political interference are true? Other people from other agencies have made similar allegations. If you don’t believe them, why not?

    I think he’s a phony. The man is probably telling the truth, but who cares? He’s doing the same thing that Colin Powell did. Where were these accusations when they happened?

    I’ve heard the analogy to this is that of a battered wife. Too scared to leave, and nowhere to go. I fully reject this analogy, as all of these Rich White Men have plenty of other job offers.

    He should have sang like a canary at the first outrage. Otherwise he’s a phony and a jackass.

  36. 36.

    Paul L.

    July 11, 2007 at 10:51 am

    re secondhand smoke

    i was unaware until recently of the possible role Polonium plays in the development of lung cancer.

    and PaulL: thanks for the jackalope release.

    The Bogus ‘Science’ of Secondhand Smoke
    I am skeptical of wikipedia links for a disputed subject like second-hand smoke or global warming.

    It seems that the administrators of wikipedia like to perform gatekeeping/editing on subjects that do not fit their world view.

    PaulL, you have erased all doubt that you are the biggest idiot that ever posted here.

    Seriously. I think we need to award some kind of prize.

    I’m thinking of a large dunce cap made out of foreskin.

    You have a extra one? Nice way to refute what I posted.

  37. 37.

    Tsulagi

    July 11, 2007 at 11:00 am

    I’m even more surprised about the Special Olympics line.

    Me too. These assholes take spoiled brat pettiness to Olympian proportions.

    Surprise factor on the rest of the crap? Zero.

  38. 38.

    ThymeZone

    July 11, 2007 at 11:08 am

    You have a extra one?

    Can you send me a picture?

  39. 39.

    RSA

    July 11, 2007 at 11:09 am

    Where were these accusations when they happened?

    These kinds of long-after-the-fact revelations from people like, say, Tenet bug me, too, but depending on the person, I can see a possible motivation for some. They may think, “This is totally screwed up, but if I raise a red flag, they’ll just replace me with someone worse. If I work within the system, maybe I can change things or at least prevent them from getting worse. ” I think that the first thought above is completely justified, that the Bush administration turns everything they touch into shit (they’re the anti-Midas), and the more they touch it, the shittier it gets. But the second thought above turns out to be wrong. So far I don’t think anyone has been able to prevent the Bushies from their rush to the bottom of whatever they’re involved in.

  40. 40.

    Punchy

    July 11, 2007 at 11:14 am

    Me too. These assholes take spoiled brat pettiness to Olympian proportions.

    Here’s the rub. This will get media play. The Special Olympics bit should get this story on the tee-vee. All the rest is “digruntled angry cracker” who-cares-we’re-CNN-bullshit.

    But dog on the retarded? That’s CNN-able. Hell, it appears as if many of them work at CNN, so perhaps it’s personal.

  41. 41.

    The Other Steve

    July 11, 2007 at 11:22 am

    It seems that the administrators of wikipedia like to perform gatekeeping/editing on subjects that do not fit their world view.

    They do. Go try to edit the entry on The War on Christmas, and question the whineyness of the people pushing it.

    It’ll get rolled back in minutes.

  42. 42.

    Dreggas

    July 11, 2007 at 11:22 am

    The obesity thing is one that just bugs the crap out of me. Some people are fat, period. One of my favorite shows is Penn and Teller’s bullshit in which they did an episode on the “obesity epidemic” and found that most studies that warn of OMG FAT PEOPLE! are sponsored by, you guessed it, companies wanting to sell more diet pills.

    Yeah our eating habits need to change, we’ve traded health for expediency and have also traded the health content of our food for lower prices. We won’t change that by making more diet pills. Fundamentally we need to change our thinking on how we eat and what we eat. If a person just stops drinking soda they can lose up to 20 lbs (I know I did) just because of cutting out “High Fructose Corn Syrup”.

    One has to wonder if all of the issues facing us healthwise these days (apart from viruses like the Flu etc.) are more related to what we are taking into our bodies. A lot of it has to do with artificial ingredients and processed foods. Now everyone is different but when I stopped shopping up and down each aisle and stuck to the outer edges of the grocery store I started feeling better and healthier just cutting out all the “processed” shit in my diet.

    People are too focused on the “effect” (obesity), vs. the cause (piss poor nutritional value and over use of synthetic or processed food).

  43. 43.

    RSA

    July 11, 2007 at 11:28 am

    People are too focused on the “effect” (obesity), vs. the cause (piss poor nutritional value and over use of synthetic or processed food).

    Add lack of exercise to the cause, and that’s about right.

  44. 44.

    Dreggas

    July 11, 2007 at 11:42 am

    RSA Says:

    These kinds of long-after-the-fact revelations from people like, say, Tenet bug me, too, but depending on the person, I can see a possible motivation for some. They may think, “This is totally screwed up, but if I raise a red flag, they’ll just replace me with someone worse. If I work within the system, maybe I can change things or at least prevent them from getting worse. ”

    That’s the only reason I can see for Powell staying.

  45. 45.

    Dreggas

    July 11, 2007 at 11:50 am

    RSA Says:

    People are too focused on the “effect” (obesity), vs. the cause (piss poor nutritional value and over use of synthetic or processed food).

    Add lack of exercise to the cause, and that’s about right.

    Agreed, but for me that’s a given. Granted I haven’t been going to the gym the past week since we have our nephew over and he’s all of 10 but as soon as he’s gone it’s back to the gym.

    As a personal anecdote, I notice when I stop eating right and go for convenience foods, my energy levels are crap, normal bodily functions (to be PC) are out of whack and I generally feel sick. Eat well and I am up and at’em with little to no effort.

  46. 46.

    Chad N. Freude

    July 11, 2007 at 11:55 am

    The man is probably telling the truth, but who cares?

    I do, for one. Maybe Carmona should have quit and gone public at the first intervention or the second, but he didn’t, so his character is questionable. However, whatever his negatives are, they should not be allowed to obscure the fact that the administration politicized a scientific office, interfered with the dissemination of medical information to the public, put political considerations above the physical well-being of citizens, and there is a record of their having done the same thing in other scientific areas. His motives for not speaking out earlier don’t make his allegations less serious or less important to public health, which I think is worth caring about.

  47. 47.

    jg

    July 11, 2007 at 12:06 pm

    I think he’s a phony. The man is probably telling the truth, but who cares?

    Dismissed. Packed away. Forgotten. If there’s a way to keep information from reaching the brain of a wingnut it’ll be employed.

  48. 48.

    Andrew

    July 11, 2007 at 12:20 pm

    Second hand smoke: You call it a carcinogen, Paul L calls it… life.

  49. 49.

    jg

    July 11, 2007 at 12:25 pm

    Chad N. Freude Says:

    The man is probably telling the truth, but who cares?

    I do, for one. Maybe Carmona should have quit and gone public at the first intervention or the second, but he didn’t, so his character is questionable. However,

    Chad, Chad, Chad, there is no ‘However’. He’s dismissed now. There are reasons to queston his credibility, because of that we will only talk about his (lack of) credibility. None of that other stuff will reach the ears of anyone for whom it would do any good.
    All you have to do is read the right wing blogs to see how easily they dismiss any issue that can’t immediately be spun against the democrats. The situation is hopeless. Wingnuts will not listen to information that conflicts with what they already believe to be true. They’d rather hear from trusted sources what the issue is and how they should feel about it.

  50. 50.

    Bubblegum Tate

    July 11, 2007 at 12:48 pm

    Should I wait for the stores to open first?

    Absolutely not. Break into the nearest store to show just how badly you want to support the economy, the War on Terra, and Jebus. While you’re twiddling your thumbs waiting for stores to open, the terrists are plotting to decapitate you!

  51. 51.

    ThymeZone

    July 11, 2007 at 12:52 pm

    easily they dismiss any issue that can’t immediately be spun against the democrats. The situation is hopeless. Wingnuts will not listen to information that conflicts with what they already believe to be true their hatred of liberals for embarassing them over Civil Rights and Young Earth Creationism.

    They don’t give a shit about anything except putting a finger in the eye of the people they see as being their tormentors. There is no ideology, no set of principles, no intellectual integrity to their politics any more. Hasn’t been for years. It’s all about being able to say Fuck You to …. you. That’s it. They’ll destroy this country if they have to, they really don’t care.

    Yes, they are that fucked up.

  52. 52.

    ThymeZone

    July 11, 2007 at 12:53 pm

    I have it on good authority that PaulL weighs 375 lbs.

  53. 53.

    Faux News

    July 11, 2007 at 1:04 pm

    Andrew Says:

    Second hand smoke: You call it a carcinogen, Paul L calls it… life.

    Paul L has discovered the spice Melange! It is second hand smoke!

    Paul L IS THE KWISATZ HADERACH!

    The Sleeper has awakened. On Balloon Juice no less. Who would have thunk it?

  54. 54.

    Andrew

    July 11, 2007 at 1:05 pm

    I have it on good authority that PaulL weighs 375 lbs.

    Does a team of retarded midget write him? Like Darrell, I mean.

  55. 55.

    Andrew

    July 11, 2007 at 1:07 pm

    Paul L has discovered the spice Melange! It is second hand smoke!

    Paul L IS THE KWISATZ HADERACH!

    The Sleeper has awakened. On Balloon Juice no less. Who would have thunk it?

    Better here than on LGF. Can you imagine the fat assed paranoid chickhawk Fremen that would produce?

  56. 56.

    Jessica

    July 11, 2007 at 1:08 pm

    This sounds cold-hearted, but regardless whether people bury the information or not, the obesity problem will work itself out within a generation or two. I don’t think it’s so much a political issue as the fact that there’s a segment of the population (including those in office) who now feels entitled to ignore anything that doesn’t support what they want to hear, truth or not. So, those who can’t be bothered to understand basic nutrition will get fat, develop chronic conditions and die early. Those who don’t want to end up like that, won’t.

  57. 57.

    Chad N. Freude

    July 11, 2007 at 1:30 pm

    So, those who can’t be bothered to understand basic nutrition will get fat, develop chronic conditions and die early. Those who don’t want to end up like that, won’t.

    That sounds like … [dramatic organ chord] … DARWINISM!!!

  58. 58.

    HyperIon

    July 11, 2007 at 1:47 pm

    RSA Says:

    These kinds of long-after-the-fact revelations from people like, say, Tenet bug me, too, but depending on the person, I can see a possible motivation for some. They may think, “This is totally screwed up, but if I raise a red flag, they’ll just replace me with someone worse. If I work within the system, maybe I can change things or at least prevent them from getting worse. ”

    most people do not want to rock the boat. they want to get along, especially if there is ANY downside to not getting along (like people saying nasty things about you or losing your job). most people do not have a backbone. they will not stand up….until the stakes get really high. that’s when the mob behavior can take over.

  59. 59.

    Paul L.

    July 11, 2007 at 1:55 pm

    I have it on good authority that PaulL weighs 375 lbs.

    You must be thinking of Michael Moore, Oliver Willis or the late Steve Gillard.

    Still, I am a fat bastard at 230 lbs 5’10” (BMI 33).

  60. 60.

    Chad N. Freude

    July 11, 2007 at 1:58 pm

    the obesity problem will work itself out within a generation or two.

    In the meantime, the airlines will continue refitting planes with wider seats, paying increased fuel costs for the increased passenger weight, indemnifying passengers injured by other obese passengers, … The list goes on. The point is that “Who cares? Let them eat cake and get fat,” has economic consequences that may not be immediately apparent.

  61. 61.

    maf54

    July 11, 2007 at 1:58 pm

    Paul L:

    Still, I am a fat bastard at 230 lbs 5’10” (BMI 33).

    A little cushion for the pushin’! Pizza party!

    Who’s in?

  62. 62.

    Punchy

    July 11, 2007 at 1:58 pm

    This sounds cold-hearted, but regardless whether people bury the information or not, the obesity problem will work itself out within a generation or two.

    Cankles, bitches.

  63. 63.

    Chad N. Freude

    July 11, 2007 at 2:01 pm

    Still, I am a fat bastard at 230 lbs 5’10” (BMI 33)

    Dude, you really ought to do something about that. I would hate to lose a dueling adversary to an obesity-related premature death.

  64. 64.

    jg

    July 11, 2007 at 2:05 pm

    Paul L. Says:

    Still, I am a fat bastard at 230 lbs 5’10” (BMI 33).

    On the Dan Patrick show Phil the Show Killer would call you………beefy.

  65. 65.

    ThymeZone

    July 11, 2007 at 2:09 pm

    You must be thinking of Michael Moore, Oliver Willis or the late Steve Gillard.

    Just yankin your chain, actually :)

  66. 66.

    Rome Again

    July 11, 2007 at 2:16 pm

    A little cushion for the pushin’! Pizza party!

    Who’s in?

    Not I. If you find that sort of thing appealing maf, go for it, but I’ll pass, thank you.

  67. 67.

    demimondian

    July 11, 2007 at 2:25 pm

    That sounds like … [dramatic organ chord] … DARWINISM

    Well, no, actually, it sounds like inheritance of acquired traits. That’s commonly confused with Darwinism, but it’s not the same thing at all.

  68. 68.

    Paul L.

    July 11, 2007 at 2:30 pm

    A little cushion for the pushin’! Pizza party!

    Who’s in?

    Wow, I never known anyone until now who watches Michael Moore films because they think he is hot. :)

  69. 69.

    Chad N. Freude

    July 11, 2007 at 2:43 pm

    I was thinking of overeating as an anti-survival selector, but whatever.

  70. 70.

    RSA

    July 11, 2007 at 2:44 pm

    That’s commonly confused with Darwinism, but it’s not the same thing at all.

    Lamarckism is even worse, being French in origin.

  71. 71.

    Chad N. Freude

    July 11, 2007 at 2:45 pm

    Let’s try that again.

    Well, no, actually, it sounds like inheritance of acquired traits. That’s commonly confused with Darwinism, but it’s not the same thing at all.

    I was thinking of overeating as an anti-survival selector, but whatever.

    Some day, I’ll get the hang of this.

  72. 72.

    Chad N. Freude

    July 11, 2007 at 2:54 pm

    Lamarckism is even worse, being French in origin.

    Lamarckism’s commonly confused with Lysenkoism, but it’s not the same thing at all.

    How many people can I antagonize with a single three-line post?

  73. 73.

    Tax Analyst

    July 11, 2007 at 2:54 pm

    Chad N. Freude Says:

    Still, I am a fat bastard at 230 lbs 5’10” (BMI 33)
    Dude, you really ought to do something about that. I would hate to lose a dueling adversary to an obesity-related premature death.

    I think that’s rather arbitrary and judgmental, Chad.
    Personally, I would defend Paul L’s right to obesity to his death. I would not be the Weight Police, nor a “Nanny State Lib’rul”.

    Waitress, another round of Twinkies for my friend, if you please.

  74. 74.

    Rome Again

    July 11, 2007 at 3:00 pm

    Waitress, another round of Twinkies for my friend, if you please.

    I agree, I am a liberal after all. ;)

  75. 75.

    tBone

    July 11, 2007 at 3:06 pm

    Presumably this Carmona dude has plenty of free time on his hands these days. What say we try to convince him that he should be studying the health of Paul L’s jackalope herd? I’d be very interested to discover what causes them to be such sickly, pitiful, short-lived creatures.

  76. 76.

    Dreggas

    July 11, 2007 at 3:06 pm

    Tax Analyst Says:

    I think that’s rather arbitrary and judgmental, Chad.
    Personally, I would defend Paul L’s right to obesity to his death. I would not be the Weight Police, nor a “Nanny State Lib’rul”.

    I agree, you want to get fat and die it’s your choice, just like it’s mine to eat healthy, exercise and still smoke half a pack a day.

    Freedom, bitches.

  77. 77.

    Paul L.

    July 11, 2007 at 3:19 pm

    Waitress, another round of Twinkies for my friend, if you please.

    What restaurant do you go to that serves Twinkies?

    I agree, you want to get fat and die it’s your choice, just like it’s mine to eat healthy, exercise and still smoke half a pack a day.

    Be careful, I really started gaining weight when I quit smoking.

  78. 78.

    RSA

    July 11, 2007 at 3:21 pm

    How many people can I antagonize with a single three-line post?

    Not me, you arrogant bastard.

  79. 79.

    demimondian

    July 11, 2007 at 3:27 pm

    I’d be very interested to discover what causes them to be such sickly, pitiful, short-lived creatures.

    According to Mr. L., he “raises issues in a proprietary manner, feeding them a specially regulated and confidential diet of shit and shit-byproducts, resulting in a uniquely piquant combination of short term viability and long term deniability.”

    I take that to mean he won’t tell me.

  80. 80.

    Tax Analyst

    July 11, 2007 at 3:31 pm

    Dreggas Says:

    Freedom, bitches.

    Freedom: It is a bitch sometimes, isn’t it?

    All those damn decisions & choices one must make…and “Why?”, when “Daddy the Decider” will make them all for you.

  81. 81.

    tBone

    July 11, 2007 at 3:33 pm

    According to Mr. L., he “raises issues in a proprietary manner, feeding them a specially regulated and confidential diet of shit and shit-byproducts, resulting in a uniquely piquant combination of short term viability and long term deniability.”

    Ah, they’re on an all-spoo diet. Got it.

  82. 82.

    Dreggas

    July 11, 2007 at 3:34 pm

    Paul L says:

    Be careful, I really started gaining weight when I quit smoking

    I’ve quit before (of course started again) and managed not to gain much weight, fortunately I can handle a few pounds without it being unseemly. I am 220 and 6’3″ even when I was 240 I barely showed it (that was when I was drinking soda constantly) so I at least wear it well.

  83. 83.

    ThymeZone

    July 11, 2007 at 3:35 pm

    Freedom: It is a bitch sometimes, isn’t it?

    They hate you for your freedom!

  84. 84.

    Tax Analyst

    July 11, 2007 at 3:37 pm

    And administration officials even discouraged him from attending the Special Olympics because, he said, of that charitable organization’s longtime ties to a “prominent family” that he refused to name.

    Please, “Special Olympics”…that’s so passe in 2007…Consider; George Bush has proven that even someone who is “Differently Abled” intellectually can become POTUS.

    Yep, we’ve come a long way, Baby…

  85. 85.

    Tax Analyst

    July 11, 2007 at 3:46 pm

    ThymeZone Says:

    Freedom: It is a bitch sometimes, isn’t it?

    They hate you for your freedom!

    Yeah, and they’ll stone you when you’re trying to be good, as well.

    But at least I would not be so all alone…

    Yeah, I know…(Everybody out there groans)

    …apologies to those out there under 40…

  86. 86.

    Chad N. Freude

    July 11, 2007 at 4:05 pm

    I think that’s rather arbitrary and judgmental, Chad.
    Personally, I would defend Paul L’s right to obesity to his death. I would not be the Weight Police, nor a “Nanny State Lib’rul”.

    As a liberal, I am not judgmental. I merely know what’s best for everybody and want to see laws enacted that require people to act in their own best interests. Sort of like Hilary.

  87. 87.

    Rome Again

    July 11, 2007 at 4:07 pm

    But at least I would not be so all alone…

    Everybody must get stoned!

  88. 88.

    Rome Again

    July 11, 2007 at 4:09 pm

    I merely know what’s best for everybody and want to see laws enacted that require people to act in their own best interests.

    My grandmother was called “Nanny” too.

  89. 89.

    Dreggas

    July 11, 2007 at 4:43 pm

    Tax Analyst Says:

    Yeah, and they’ll stone you when you’re trying to be good, as well.

    Well I don’t think it ought to be blasphemy just saying Jehovah…

  90. 90.

    Bubblegum Tate

    July 11, 2007 at 5:43 pm

    Be careful, I really started gaining weight when I quit smoking.

    One of my favorite Norm MacDonald jokes: “New York City introduced a ban on smoking in bars and restaurants last week. Already, the city has gained 20,000 pounds.”

    It’s all in the delivery.

  91. 91.

    Wolfdaughter

    July 12, 2007 at 12:25 am

    I see this thread has become a contest of seeing who can make the worst joke, ho ho ha ha.

    Back to Carmona. He’s a Tucsonan, as am I. I never met him, but he got a lot of press around here as he is quite a colorful character. I don’t remember all the details, but before his Surgeon General gig, he worked at Kino Hospital, which used to treat a lot of the poor people, being the only hospital on Tucson’s southside. Some guy came into the hospital brandishing a gun. I don’t remember if he was threatening to shoot people or was trying to commit robbery or what, but the police were called and he took off. Carmona took off after him, also armed, and managed to catch and shoot him. Can’t remember if the guy survived, either.

    Carmona is a diehard Republican of the Goldwater school. I can picture him being tapped for Surgeon General and feeling very honored. Then he gets into the job and begins to realize that he’s being muzzled and moreover, that he signed on with a bunch of f***ups. Being a diehard Repub, it takes him quite a while to admit just how wrong he was to take the job on, and besides, he likes the perks and power, if with a muzzle on. And his mindset would also work against his speaking out while still employed.

    I’m a commie pinko ratfink liberal and have no use for the Bush cabal, and knew it would be bad news. How it could not be glaringly obvious to everyone just how incompetent and venal he is…

    And I’m not saying it was right to not speak out. Yes, Powell and Carmona and all the others should have spoken out long ago, but they are still doing some good by speaking out later. Better late than never is so true here. Bush’s polls keep sinking, and that’s a GOOD sign.

  92. 92.

    pswiderski

    July 12, 2007 at 10:26 am

    I don’t know why I am amazed when literally not a week goes by with more similar revelations coming out. Whether its Whitman or Simon or Powell or this guy, the ideologues won and decent (if not so smart, because after all, they took the job) people lost (and we all lost). The blatant politicization of EVERYTHING in this government, whether at the DoJ or NASA (remember the re-writing of climate science) or Surgeon General or, well, literally every “independent” branch is beyond astounding. They’re the new Bolsheviks, and either you were with them or you with the Terrorists and Democrats (same difference to this bunch). We had Rove orchestrating much of this because it was part of establishing Republicans as the “permanent majority” (how democratic is that??), and a bunch of truly not-well ideologues all around this pack who really bought into the Torquemonda “the ends justify the means” philosophy. In the end, Republicans lost their soul (in a big, big way which would have Goldwater spinning away in his grave), the country lost its standing and we are all the poorer for it. Shameful, shameful, shameful.

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