Perjury. Somewhere Fred Hiatt is crying.
***Update***
Dems have asked the DoJ Inspector General to appoint a special prosecutor. As so often seems to be the case, the IG office of a given department is where a Bushie really earns his pay.
Gonzo
by Tim F| 63 Comments
This post is in: Republican Crime Syndicate - aka the Bush Admin.
jenniebee
I’m not getting this… as lies go, this is a very, very, stupid one. It’s like he’s daring Congress to try to bring charges and/or impeach him.
So what I don’t get is, why? If everybody already knows, from other testimony, about the objections and the hospital, etc, then what’s the benefit to AG to lie here? I don’t mean to say that I don’t think he’s lying – it’s crystal clear that he is – but how can the WH figure that, if Gonzo came down and gave that line to Congress that the hammer wouldn’t come down on him? They couldn’t have, they must have anticipated it, therefore, this alternative must be preferable to them over something else. What is that something else?
Face
Exactly. And they will, and he’ll be pardoned. And he wont resign, b/c Bush won’t let him. And the entire Bush Admin will be mocked for centuries to come.
Zifnab
No underlying crime! No underlying crime! No underlying crime! Witch hunt! Witch hunt! Democrats just have BSD!
Ok, we’ve got that out of the way, the discussion may continue.
Teak111
It goes to a previous post on BJ, yesterday I think. The WH through Gonzo is telling Congress to: “go f*ck themselves. Bring on a purjury investigation, cite Gonzo for lying under oath to Congress, we don’t care and it will do no good. IF convicted, we will pardon.” As the man asked so many years ago, “After all man, have you no shame?” And we now know the answer.
Tulkinghorn
Impeachment is the brier patch, and he is begging b’rer Congress to toss him into it.
But why? to run out the clock? because impeachment is so tarnished from the Clinton Follies that being impeached is now a badge of honor? False bravado, resulting from misreading Congress’ failure to censure him?
As a Democratic partisan, I like the idea of impeaching him and having him skate – that will tie the congressional Republicans to the crooks in the White House better than anything else can. Then with a congressional washout of Rs in 2008 a new Attorney General can go after all the creeps without concern for presidential pardons.
Unless, of course, the White House really is planning a coup to stay in power… (tin-foil hat no longer necessary)
Stooleo
Hot glueing tin-foil hat to my head.
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Oldline_Republican_warns_somethings_in_works_0719.html
Cassidy
If the Dems were smart, they’d stay away from impeachment and wait until these guys are out of office, then bring criminal charges.
rachel
Maybe these guys don’t believe that any “law” or “reality” or “truth” exist outside their own heads.
Punchy
Holy crap….I’m agreeing with Cass. Impeachment now is akin to charging someone, but knowing 100% guarenteed that they will be aquitted. What’s the point? The guilty come out looking innocent, not b/c they are, but b/c their cronies (i.e., the “jury”) are completely biased.
Of course, if things get considerably more egregious, and it’s looking more and more like they’re willing to hijack justice or elections, then it must be done.
Rome Again
My guess is that this is going to be an argument of semantics. According to Gonzo – No, the meeting wasn’t to discuss the spying program, it was to discuss why 8 certain senators needed to hear about the spying program.
Jake
I don’t know if it’s running out the clock so much as a bunch of nasty little brats who continue to trash the house because the parents aren’t home yet. Somewhere in their tiny little minds they know there will be hell to pay when mom and dad see what they’ve done to furniture and the dog, but they’re having so much fun!
A question: Can Congress selectively defund operations for a particular Department? For example, could they defund that part of DoJ operations marked “Pay to the order of Alberto Guantanamo Gonzales”?
Rome Again
I considered this myself recently. The question is, will we serve ourselves better by getting rid of them now even if they do eventually get pardons and go free? What damage will they do to the country in the next 17 months that we could have prevented by beginning the process of getting rid of them now? Hindsight is 20/20, foresight sucks bigtime. Get out your crystal ball.
Cassidy
Weel geez…maybe I meant it when I said I was a Democrat, just not a liberal.
Realisiticall, any impeachment proceedings would backfire. The dems don’t have enough guarantees that it would be successful and it would be spun into a partisan witch-hunt. The long term damage to the majority held in Congress would be significantly higher than the short term damage done by this Administration.
Zifnab
Gonzo needs to go. This is too much. He made a bold-faced lie to Congress, and he’s violated the law in plain view of the American Public. If he’d walked up to Leahy, punched the man in the jaw, and stolen his wallet, it could not be more obvious.
Let the impeach run its course. We’ll run up to the ’08 elections with Republicans casting votes to defend the worst Attorney General in US History. And if this does end long and messy, we can hope it extends past 2009, when Bush can’t pardon his pet dog anymore. I don’t want to see these guys out of office. I want to see them in jail.
Pb
Congress, in theory, can do all sorts of things that they won’t do. If Congress wanted to, they could abolish most of the Judiciary–that is to say, everything up to and including what was established starting with the Judiciary Act of 1789, except for the little that is actually mandated in Article III.
Yes, that’s right, folks — Congress could not only defund the Attorney General, they could also get rid of the position of Attorney General entirely.
Redhand
I’m absolutely stunned at both the brazenness and utter stupidity of Gonzo’s performance. He’s the most shameless liar ever to appear before a congressional committee. That he’s the A.G. compounds the disgrace.
All I can figure is that this administration will say and do ANYTHING to cover up the fact that Bush is little more than Cheney’s sock puppet, and that no one, not even the attorney general, has any independence from Cheney’s malicious and unconstitutional power grabs “on behalf of the president.”
For me, in addition to all the blatent lies and slimy twisting and turning, what was most shocking about Gonzo’s “testimony” was his statement he too was “troubled” about a memo he signed showing the the VP’s office was to be copied on the details of certain DoJ criminal investigations. See “Gonzales Memo Widened Cheney’s Office Access to DoJ Case Info” http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/003767.php
Can it be any clearer that the person really running this administration is Cheney?
Rome Again
I really could care less WHAT they spin it as, the American public on a whole wants it.
This could only come from someone who takes Bushies seriously.
Jake
Absolutely. I’m hoping all of these hearings are the overture to a symphony called The Trials of the Century, hopefully with Judge Reggie Wilson conducting, although a few of these people need to go before The Hauge.
Once everyone is out from under the protection of a Get out of Jail Free card, there will be a stampede to rat out the other guy and cut a deal. After the convictions and sentences are handed down, I can’t see the next President being inclined to issue any pardons.
As an added bonus we’d have the amusement of watching Bush as he frantically tried to declare that though he was no longer President, since the crimes occurred while he was President he could retroactively pardon everyone, including himself.
“Lemme go! I’m The Decider, damn it. I’m The Deciiiideeeer!”
Rome Again
I expect the moment he’s out of office, he’s on a plane to Paraguay, where no extradition exists. Bushie will just sit in the shade of his jungle bungalow sipping mint juleps and laughing his ass off. No matter Cheney is the one we need to see frogmarched anyway.
jenniebee
No, no no – you’re not getting the question. This course of action, to lie like this, anticipating that the Dems will impeach, anticipating perjury…
yes, absolutely, they might be counting votes and figure that enough R’s in the Senate will stay loyal to prevent Gonzales being removed. But they’re still walking straight ahead into that showdown – why do they want it?
Because Gonzo could have come down yesterday and wiggled out a “clarification of earlier testimony” that wouldn’t have been this brazen. He could have thrown Congress a sop that would satisfy enough members that this would all have gone away. If he’d done that, Congress would be no more able to bring impeachment charges for perjury against the AG than they are now. The WH could have made this go away without admitting anything that isn’t already known.
So I’ve got to figure, the WH wants this confrontation with Congress, but why? To demonstrate Congress’s ultimate powerlessness? To distract from some other, larger issue? To control a narrative? Why?
To me, this seems like either the plausible diversion of an illusionist’s trick, or else the setup for an ambush. It isn’t enough to say that he lied because he knew he could get away with it. He could have told a different lie that wouldn’t provoke Congress as much. Why tell this one instead?
Cassidy
This makes no sense. For one you’re arguning with me on something we agree about. Two, it doesn’t matter what the people want. What matters is the votes in Congress. There is no guarantee an impeachment of any sort would work. And when ti did back fire, the spin machine would turn it into exaclty what you added.
So all the screams of “war criminal” mean you don’t take him seriously?
Means you don’t take them seriously?
The Dems need to look to the long term goal…not short term punishment. They can always go and get these guys, once the pardon is off the table.
Zifnab
I know three wrongs don’t make a right, but after we invaded Afganistan and Iraq, what’s one more cowboy adventure if its just down in South America? I don’t think anyone short of President Gore or President Dean would have the balls for it, but its fun to dream.
Chad N. Freude
I’m afraid that the “short term damage done by this Administration” has a term of at least a couple of generations.
Can any of the legal experts here (i.e., anyone who didn’t receive their legal training from Perry Mason, LA Law, or Boston Legal) tell us if, before he leaves office, Bush can grant a pardon in advance to anyone in the administration who might be charged with something in the future? I dimly recall talk of the possibility of Nixon pardoning himself before any charges could be brought against him.
Rome Again
It will matter when Election Day rolls around.
Well, it makes more sense to carry out impeachment proceedigns for trying to dismantle the Constitution than it did for lying about a blowjob. The fact that the Repubs so brazenly tried to get away with that fiasco blows this one out of the water.
And what happened? Clinton’s approval rating went up, and he was not convicted. Whaddya know!
Chad N. Freude
Why that couldn’t possibly happen! Just ask the Grenadans.
Chad N. Freude
The answers to these questions are: because they think they can do anything they want without suffering any consequences, yes, yes, yes, and because they can. And they’re really, really arrogant and contemptuous of the Constitution, the other branches of government, and the American people.
Cassidy
Rome—now you’re just making no sense. If you really want to argue that bad, we can, bu I think you’re missing the point.
All I’m saying is that an impeachment of Bush or his crew would backfire. Simple as that. So while it may be fun to think about and fill you full of marshmellow fluff, it simply won’t happen and on the off-chance that it is successful, he’d just pardon them anyway. So, the smart thing to do is wait it out, until these people are gone, start the investigations now to gather evidence, avoid looking like a partisan witch-hunt so the majority can be maintained, and then set about fixing shit with a Dem POTUS.
Rome Again
You’re talking about what is most likely going to be a Dem violating extradition treaties?
Lovely! Stop the world, I want to get off!
Cassidy
To give the spin machine ammo. Most of the prominent Democrats are considered liberals. Most of the calls for impeachment come from more partisn liberals. Put two and two together and you have a partisan witch-hunt.
jenniebee
Chad, I believe you can issue a blanket pardon for all past crimes, but you can’t issue a pardon that covers crimes yet to be committed. So yeah, he could pardon everybody in his administration on the last day for any crimes they might have committed while in office without specifying what those crimes might have been.
Personally, I find it hard to blame Pelosi for not introducing impeachment charges. The candidates are already ginning up for the presidential primaries, and the last thing any of them want is for Bush & Cheney to be out and Pelosi to be in the WH while they’re trying to conduct a campaign. It takes away their biggest issue (that they’ll stop the war, the R’s won’t) and every time anything blows up in Iraq there will be copious newsprint given over to Bill Kristol and the like, who will say that our troops were at risk because there are fewer there than before or that the insurgents are attacking because they know our will is weak.
Neither of those arguments makes much sense, of course: patrol sizes don’t change, only the number of patrols change, and the argument that the attacks happen to weaken our will only makes sense if our “will” is to do something other than to gtfo. But it’d get print and airtime all the same, and the Dem candidates would be in a worse position for it.
Having said that, whatever the best thing to do politically is, the moral thing to do is whatever can be done to save the most lives, both US and Iraqi. If the long-term political ability to stop the Iraq war hinges on the election, and the election hinges on not taking over that hornet’s nest until 2008, then sad to say, not impeaching may also be the moral thing to do.
Rome Again
Because? Offer your proof, fuckhead. I offered mine:
1. The public as a whole wants it
2. It makes more sense to go for impeachment to fix Consititutional crises then it does to smear someone for lying about a blowjob
3. No matter that it was lying about a blowjob, the Repubs did it anyway, which gives us great reason to believe this one will be much more successful given #1.
Rome Again
Becuz Cassidy’s so afrayd uv widdle wiberal monsters det he tinks nobuddy cood eber lissen to Dimicrats and tayk dem seeriuslee!
Take your liberal war to a psychiatrist, you need to have your head examined.
Cassidy
Sounsd like someone needs chocolate or to get laid.
Heh…I beleive you said somewhere that this Congress hasn’t listened to the will of the people, so why would they start now?
The Dems don’t have enough votes to pull off an impeachment. If they manage to pull it off for an underling, it would only be pardoned (said allready, but I guess you missed that in your hurry to call names).
Strawman.
See rebuttal 1.
Rome Again
Ummm Cassidy? The reason why we didn’t do it until now is because we didn’t have the votes, that tide may be starting to turn when people like Arlen Specter are getting pissed.
Now, would you like a pacifier or is it time for your little nappy?
/finished playing with this idiot and putting him on ignore forever.
Cassidy
You really expect these people, whom you’ve described as criminals, to go against their constituency? You really do live in a dreamworld.
Rome Again
Please point out where I ever said that Republican Congressmen were criminals. The Criminals are in the White House and it’s various departments. Congress is a seperate power of government, who currently don’t understand that they are a separate power at the moment. Congress is not criminal, it’s just rolling over and playing dead for the executive power at the moment.
Now, begone idiot!
Cassidy
What the fuck are you arguing about? Jesus christ, go take a private moment and rub one out. Jesus on a fucking pogo stick!
No I’m not going to look for the post. I don’t feel like it and tired of listening to you rant, when we’ve essentially said the same thing, the only difference is you want blood now and I’d like to see a continued Democrat majority for a while.
Good god, you make a lot of assumptions.
Rome Again
Coming from someone who only complains about liberals, this is classic.
Cassidy
I don’t like liberals. Democrats I’m okay with. I have no use for hyper-partisan individuals who ahve abandoned all reason in favor of power.
Rome Again
Yeah, I don’t either. That said, you lump all liberals into a camp of “hyper partisan individuals who have abandoned all reason in favor of power” when you don’t understand the first thing about who you’re talking about.
Cassidy
You realy did just want to argue for the sake of it.
http://www.PleasureMeNow.com
Go buy yourself something nice and come back later.
whatsleft
How about this reason – impeaching is the Constitutional thing to do, the right thing to do. Expediency does not make right.
Cassidy
I’m not arguing whether it is or it isn’t. All I’ve said is that it won’t happen, or it will be unsuccessful, or in the unlikely event it goes through, it will be pardoned.
So, a nice showing of “Bush Sucks” in Congress might feel good, if it has no tangible benefit, then it’s a waste of time.
Dreggas
Specter may be pissed but he is Spectering again
Jake
Try this:
The CIA, still hacked off about Plaming (h/t Tim F) and being regularly denigrated by the Admin after they kept quiet about all the dirt they had on the C-i-C and the D-I-C-K, sends some people down there without seeking permission. At some point we hear El Rancho Nueuvo has burned to the ground and former President Bush is presumed dead.
File the entire trip under “Miscellaneous,” in expenses.
Rome Again
I think you’re crazy for suggesting that a covert strike force would go down to Paraguay and take out a former POTUS.
Rome Again
Well, I did say the tide may be turning.
Sounds to me like Arlen got a phone call last night.
Dreggas
Of course. After all it fits the pattern
1) Display moral outrage at hearing
2) immediately following hearing continue displaying moral outrage before heading home for the evening.
3) return the next day pretending yesterday didn’t really happen.
It’s like he goes home and gets a brain transplant each night.
Cassidy
So should I expect an apology or are you just gonna pretend you weren’t being hysterical? lol
Cain
More like Spectre apparently has run afoul of Sith Lord Cheney and has succumbed yet again to the Cheney mind fuck.
cain
Jake
What about:
Dog the Bounty Hunter fetches him out.
No?
Jack Bauer?
Cassidy
Ahhh c’mon…for the “ebil war criminal”…surely you jest.
Dreggas
Oh boy oh boy Muellerjust pretty much backed all of Comey’s testimony
Jake
Paging John Ashcroft! Mr. Ashcroft, you’re wanted on the Senate floor!
Also known as the “Nuh-uuuh!” defense.
Methinks that GoneZo will soon be reduced to claiming that he “had his fingers crossed,” or that by some coincidence the Senate always took his testimony on Opposite Day.
What’s wrong with me that this whole thing makes me laugh more than it makes me angry?
Dreggas
because it’s like watching a sylvester and tweety cartoon where sylvester is trying like mad to convince granny he did NOT snatch tweety from his cage as a feather suddenly pops from his mouth and his cheeks start bulging in every direction, all the while spike is running video highlights on a projection screen behind him.
Cain
So, what’s going to happen in this latest episode? The top prosecutor in the country is now lying, on purpose. And now he wants a do-over to help clean up the image of the Justice Department while simultaneously perjuring himself?
As others have said, this guy is clearly going to get a “get out of jail card”. Perhaps though that doesn’t matter. Impeach him anyways, but not now, close to the elections. Then after Bush pardons him there should be enough backlash to push for a greater democratic majority.
This should put some nice pressure on the Republicans with continuing sex scandals, scooter libby, iraq, and whatever else they’ve been up to that it’ll be really hard for them to mobilize the base.
Perhaps justice is defined by smashing the Republican party. That would be good for the history books.
cain
Dreggas
Gonzo comes out as gay with his main squeeze Tony Snow and they both traipse off to an undisclosed location. Immediately following this Cheney’s face somehow melts after getting too close to a fire and it’s revealed he’s really nothing more than a terminator sent back in time to lay the foundations of an authoritarian state making it easier for skynet to take over. Somewhere GW chokes on a pretzel only to be given the Heimlich by Michael Moore after which he celebrates by having a menage-a-trois with Laura and Cindy Sheehan.
Cain
I need whatever you’re smoking/drinking/inhaling! That’s some good shit!
Although I really think Cheney face melts and he turns into one of the crab people. CRAB.. CRAB PEOPLE…
cain
apologies if you didn’t get the south park reference.
grandpa john
there is no get out of jail card for impeachment
Constitutional Authority for Presidential Pardons
The presidential power to pardon is granted under Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution.
“The President … shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.”
No standards, and only one limitation — no pardons for the impeached.
Dreggas
I think I missed that episode, of course he could have easily been revealed as a member of the Super Adventure Friends or whatever it was called.
Cain
It was the episode where they were lampooning “Queer Eye for the Straight Guy”. All of South Park was living the “gay lifestyle” it was pretty funny. But the 4 guys hosting the show end up being “crab people”. People who want to take over the earth or something like that.
cain
rachel
Why do people keep saying the US couldn’t extradite Bush from Paraguay? It’s not true. (pdf)
ConservativelyLiberal
I was going through my channel list and I saw Bruce Fein was on with Tweety today. Pure luck as I have been skipping Tweety since the Imus mess. Well, I had to stop and listen for a few. Tweety basically asked “So what?” to Fein about the lying about the warrantless wiretapping program, and Gonzo lying about it.
Fein said that Congress has no choice other than to impeach, and that Bush is abusing his (so-called) authority. Fein was loud and clear, this administration has stepped over the line and it is time to hold them to account.
Makes one wonder which congressmen they listened in on and have the goods on. Probably both sides of the aisle, that would make the lack of investigation ‘bi-partisan’, so to say. Nothing like unanimity in DC!