Barnett calls the TNR statement “maddening”. If you’re wedded to the belief that the stories were fabricated, then it must be. It’s no fun to have accused a writer and his editors of wilfull malfeasance only to discover you have no real basis for it, except your own insecurities and hatreds. If, on the other hand, you’re concerned to find the full truth about Iraq – and TNR has published countless stories on every angle and supported the initial invasion – the stories are one trivial but worthwhile aspect of the complex reality of war. In the context of TNR’s coverage of the entire conflict, they’re completely legitimate.
I truly have no explanation why the rightwing blogosphere has managed to largely ignore and deny actual claims and cases of torture and abuse by US soldiers but have gone batshit over some trivial, unshocking, verified soldier stories by a man who, unlike Barnett and Malkin, is actually serving his country. But this is my best shot: Their president and their Congress and their movement have lost a war, wounded America’s moral standing in the world and caused tens of thousands of deaths and a greater risk of terrorism across the globe.
After four and a half years of this nightmare, who are you going to blame but The New Republic?
Terri Schiavo Could Have Lived!
Homosexuals are ruining marriage!
Harriet Miers should be a SC justice!
Let’s use this thread to document the crazy of the past few years.
*** Update ***
A quick link to Kevin Drum, who perfectly called how this affair would play out:
Like a Kabuki story, though, you can already see how this is going to play out….Eventually some small part of Thomas’s account will turn out to be slightly exaggerated and the right will erupt in righteous fervor. They were right all along! Thomas did make up his stories! The left does hate the troops!
The best comment from that thread predicting what would happen:
Why the endless attacks against Kabuki theatre?
At any rate, have fun documenting the crazy.
*** Update #2 ***
From the comments:
Of course you can not believe “Scott Thomas” “Beauchamp” about the story about him laughing at a deformed woman. Our brave soldiers would not do that. Of course Beauchamp said that his friend and him laughed at her and that is believable as they aren ot brave soldiers at all Beauchamp admits that he laughs at disfigured people and how can you believe a story told by somebody who admits that he laughs at disfigured people? So he probably laughed at her because he is that sort of person but nobody else did and even though he did not say that they did that is what he meant but they did not do that she does not even exist. Beauchamp says she did but how can you believe him he admits he laughed at her and a person who would do that would do anything?
Without checking the comments to see who wrote this, is this:
a.) Hot Air
b.) Ace
c.) Confederate Yankee
d.) The Powerline
e.) a spoof
Ugh
Apparently John, you’re a homophobic liberal.
Sirkowski
Those who predicted that the Iraq war would be a disaster just made a lucky guess.
cleek
George Bush is a Popular President!
Saddam Was Helping al-Qeuda!
Permanent Republican Majority!
John Cole
Posting at 3:30 am is always dangerous.
taodon
You’re either with us or for the terrorists!
Katrina was handled correctly!
We’re in the last throes of the insurgency!
They’re going to greet us with open arms!
You can walk safely through Bagdad!
The surge is going to be proven a success in September!
I do not recall!
I do not recall!
I do not recall!
Ugh
I think he’s in Iraq.
John Cole
I was trying to be charitable. Fine, he is an idiot.
Z
Homosexuals can’t reproduce on their own, so they are trying to recruit your children!
John Kerry and John Murtha insulted the troops!
The weapons of mass destruction are hiding in Syria!
Scooter Libby is not a criminal! Perjury is only a crime if democrats do it.
Zifnab
I didn’t shoot him in the face, he threw his face into my buckshot!
I demand an apology!
Ugh
That’s better.
Tulkinghorn
Ace recently started taking unprovoked shots at John too. Apparantly our comments constitute a sewer, no, a cesspool of liberal invective.
We are in ur base and st33ling a77 ur p00p!
Ugh
The occupation will pay for itself!
cleek
We know where the weapons are.
Mission Accomplished!
Social Security is Dooooooomed!
John Cole
Ace, Jeff G., Baldilocks, Jimmie at the Sundries Shack- it is like a 28% reunion. Additionally, if you read the comments at Ace’s, it was not unprovoked, as I have ‘had a free ride through crazytown’ and needed to be ‘smacked down.’
Just ignore them, they will go away.
Zifnab
Careful, John. The wrath of the wingnut’o’sphere is to be ph34r’d. Before you know it, Michelle Malkin will be dancing at you in a cheerleader’s outfit while Reynolds calls you nasty names and Dan Riehl accuses you of being a racist.
Andrew
The right sees him as an individually huge throbbing cock thrusting in and out of their day dreams. Which means that John Cole is the gay one.
racrecir
Hindrocket: That memo has to be a Democratic forgery, Republicans would never use Schiavo for politics.
Hindrocket: It must be difficult for George Bush being a genius.
WSJ: We wish the Bush Administration would stop playing who baked the yellowcake and start explaining to Americans that intelligence is too important to be politicized.
Stanley Kurtz: In the end, I think the media bears fundamental responsibility for this. Had they been less biased–had they reported acts of heroism and the many good things we have done in Iraq–I think conservatives would actually have taken their reporting of the problems in Iraq more seriously. In effect, the media’s consistent liberal bias discredits even its valid reports.
Mona Charen: Our mistakes in Iraq have been well-intentioned ones.
Ugh
We’re fighting them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here!
Bring ’em on!
Third Eye Open
Projection; Thy name is RedState.
I love watching these guys scramble around to try and convince everyone in their “little” rhetorical circle-jerk that campaigning on the fears of ‘teh gay horde’ isn’t prejudiced, and that the “sane and responsible” gays agree that they should be denied rights afforded to any other American.
I always wanted to see a national party implode.
Zifnab
You found that quote too, Andrew? Yeah, this bit was choice. He just forgot to mention, “And we’re way more humble than you, you big pompous jerk! So suck it!”
Sometimes I almost think they believe their own rhetoric about not hating gays and colored people. They just can’t figure out the difference between saying they’re not bigots and actually not being bigots. (Hint: the trick is to stop throwing screaming fits every time the minority group gets ‘uppity’).
racrecir
Cal Thomas (April 15, 2003): All of the printed and voiced prophecies should be saved in an archive. When these false prophets again appear, they can be reminded of the error of their previous ways and at least be offered an opportunity to recant and repent.
Steve
John, you and Jeff Goldstein used to be such buds. How well I remember the days when you would defend him against even the most well-grounded attacks. How sad to see it come to this.
brock o. baum
Umm, John…what sort of rhetorical device will you use to try to refute the Army findings?
…other than saying Sanchez shouldn’t be believed because he did some gay stuff 15 years ago
brock o. baum
PAO Kuwait says the melty-face lady is a myth.
Now you don’t know his sexuality so you cannot use that particular tactic to try to discredit him.
jenniebee
Drum’s linkfest is terrific. Dean Barnett’s piece, where he writes that the confirmation that Bradleys can run over dogs is proof that Beauchamp fabricated the bit about a single soldier running over dogs because what Beauchamp meant by that was that entire units were “out of control, deliriously joy-riding in a Bradley, taking out many objects both animate and inanimate” even though he said it was one guy. Also, when TNR says:
Barnett leaves off the opening sentence of the paragraph (“The last section of the Diarist described soldiers using Bradley Fighting Vehicles to kill dogs.”) and tries to convince his readers that the incident (his emphasis) isn’t specified and therefore could refer to anything. So the witness wasn’t necessarily there for the killing of a dog, it might just be that he likes to discourse at length on how to run over dogs as described in the presumably made-up story.
zomg! maybe that other unpatriotic soldier helped Beauchamp invent the story! There’s obviously a nest of them there who are either products of the TNR editors’ fevered imaginations, or are working to undermine their own efforts from the inside by talking to the media and confirming stories that, even if true, are best not told and are therefore not true at all.
Clearly, the time is ripe for another Glorious Loyalty Oath Crusade.
cleek
Atrios has been doing a fine job of that. hasn’t stopped any of them from selling books or landing TV spots, of course. people are simply dying to hear we’ve only got another FU or two to go.
over_educated
It really is quite interesting watching this whole thing implode. Since their little “Scott Beauchamp doesn’t exist” circle-jerk has come crashing down around their ears they are just lashing out at anyone who is pointing out their idiocy.
Eg. Confederate Yankee writing bizarre, rambling responses to Sadly, No (sucks being made to look like a fool by a comedy site…), the current “John Cole is a Homophobe meme!!! TNR didn’t produce any proof (seriously at this point what else do you want you have a first hand account corroborated by witnesses vs. sandbox re-enactments, its a parody of a parody).
They are really flailing now. Whats next? Andrew Sullivan is a homophobe? All left wingers hate Asians because we diss Malkin?
I suspect that, buoyed by their success in making Beauchamps life hell, they really think that other bloggers fear their wrath. Which of course makes them publish more stuff that lets us all laugh harder. So in the end, it really is a win-win for us.
Jake
Jamil Hussein doesn’t exist!
Mark Foley was set up by Democrat pranksters!
If you’ve done nothing wrong you’ve got nothing to fear!
I don’t know the flipnut response to Gitmo and I ain’t going to guess.
Jake
I recall Sanchez insisting he wasn’t gay. I know a few people in the industry so I’ve always taken him at his word. But that would make John a Pornophobic liberal and I guess the commentor decided that sounded stoopid.
Punchy
COCKSLAPPAH!!!
brock o. baum
Jamil Hussein doesn’t exist!
Mark Foley was set up by Democrat pranksters!
The Other Steve
Not only is John a Homophobic liberal asshole.
He’s also a member of AARP!
brock o. baum
Jamil Hussein doesn’t exist!
Mark Foley was set up by Democrat pranksters!
cleek
Drum was amusingly correct, of course, but they really are going all-out with this Kuwait v Iraq thing. look around the i’m not sure exactly what they think hinges on it, but they’re convinced it’s of vital importance.
for example, this wingnut ad hominates:
maybe he is. does that disprove his point, that war is hell for all involved ?
tBone
Fixed.
This must be in between their day dreams about hot syphilitic-Rottweiler-on-man action.
Thankfully, John’s post has shocked Ace out of his complacency re: America’s Greatest Threat. Eight stories on Beauchamp have been posted there in the last 24 hours. It turns out that not only is Beauchamp a treacherous dirty hippy lie-beral: he’s also gay. Yeah.
cleek
err…
that was supposed to be “…but they really are going all-out with this Kuwait v Iraq thing. look around the wingnet, they’re all on DefCon 5 over this.”
UnkyT
Mark Foley (D)
Barack Osama
6 more months
6 more months
6 more months
6 more months
6 more months
6 more months
6 more months
Ugh
Weapons of mass destruction program related activities!
The Other Steve
It’s something about loving Gitmo.
UnkyT
wait, forgot September
norbizness
As Bob Odenkirk as Thomas Jefferson said about RedState at 2:15 of this clip: “What a collection of assholes!”
John Cole
Beauchamp’s wife is going to be PISSED.
The Other Steve
Wait does that make the wingers Homophobic Liberal assholes now?
mot
The old guy who got shot in the face was asking for it:
Whittington “came up from behind the vice president and the other hunter and didn’t signal them or indicate to them or announce himself,” Armstrong said.
“This is something that happens from time to time,” Armstrong said. “You know, I’ve been peppered pretty well myself,” Armstrong said.
Zifnab
They were being served chicken and given roomy prison cells with air conditioning. Gitmo prisoners are living better than we are.
Tulkinghorn
Where did the claims that us commenters are all anti-semitic come from? I don’t recall there ever being a serious dust-up about anti-semitism at any point in the last couple years. There was someone over at RedState who visited and accused me of being an anti-semite, so there seems to be some sort of issue there I have never understood.
Hell, are there even any anti-zionists around here?
tBone
See, you do still agree with some of Ace’s commenters:
The Other Steve: I think Ace’s commenters would like you to know that your gaybaiting
If you don’t watch it, one of them might suggest that Ace let you
brock o. baum
Beauchamp has been on lock down since July 27th. TNR complained that he is incommunicado with the outside world. They cannot communicate with him.TNR publishes a statement on Aungust 2nd saying they confronted Beauchamp with the inconsistency regarding the melty-face woman.
….OK one of the parties, if not both, are lying.
I say the latter.
PK
Document the crazies: Where to begin?
George Bush is a compassoinate conservative!
George Bush will surround himself with competent people!
George Bush is like Winston Churchill!
Saddam Hussain was linked to 9/11!
We will be greeted with flowers!
Iraqi oil will pay for the war and reconstruction!
Abu graib was a few bad apples!
Jessica lynch was a war hero (instead she just fell off a truck)!
Valerie Plame was not a covert agent!
There is no scientific concensus on global warming!
OR in short
The entire conservative republican Ideology and its supporters! Crazy Insane Lunatics who have been in charge for the past 7 Yrs.
tBone
I’m guessing it came from a few epic flame wars among lefty commenters here during the Israel-Lebanon conflict last year. In Greater Wingnuttia, of course, that means we’re all anti-Semites.
racrecir
David Brooks (04/28/2003): GEORGE ORWELL was a genuinely modest man. But he knew he had a talent for facing unpleasant facts. That doesn’t seem at first glance like much of a gift. But when one looks around the world, one quickly sees how rare it is. Most people nurture the facts that confirm their worldview and ignore or marginalize the ones that don’t, unable to achieve enough emotional detachment from their own political passions to see the world as it really is. Now that the war in Iraq is over, we’ll find out how many people around the world are capable of facing unpleasant facts.
Jossell
Why would anyone doubt the word of a feller who delights in taunting the disfigured?
Nikki
Brooks should be forced to reread that statement every single day for the rest of his natural life.
Tim F.
LOL. I must be one of those self-hating types.
Andrew
Phew, I was worried that there might not be enough evidence that 28%ers are the biggest group of self-hating, ultra-homophobic gays in the entire universe. Besides the collected writings of Jeff Goldstein, I mean.
brock o. baum
Whoopsie…
In an interview with ABC last week, TNR editor Frank Foer said that he had “talked to one of the members of [Beauchamp’s FOB Falcon] unit to confirm the woman, a female contractor”–referring to the existence of a disfigured woman at that location who was allegedly harassed by Scott Beauchamp and friend at FOB Falcon in Iraq.
…but…but…but…that Sanchez guy did some gay shit 15 years ago…
cleek
…or the condemned…
Formerly Wu
It didn’t occur to you that they might have talked to him before July 27?
Formerly Wu
Interesting paraphrase there.
I note, for example, that it does not quote Foer as saying “I talked to a member of FOB Falcon in Iraq.” It uses a paraphrase to imply as such. A direct reading of the quote only says that Foer talked to a member of Beauchamp’s unit.
Mind linking the interview so we can clarify?
John S.
Join the club.
I’ll never forget in this one thread during the Israeli/Lebanese skirmish, Paul L. accused me of being a holocaust denier, to which I replied that would be remarkable since I have holocaust survivors in my family. Then Darrell went batshit insane trying to claim that I was just using that as an excuse to deflect any criticism of my views on Israel.
Good times.
dslak
No doubt the ‘F’ in your name stands for Finkelstein!
brock o. baum
It didn’t occur to you that they might have talked to him before July 27?
Well, duh…isn’t that the point, you doofus.
Foer said the story was rigorously fact checked prior to publication…and after.
They continued to maintain that everything had been corroborated…until August 2…which just coincidentally was the day before the Army was to reveal the results of its investigation…
…put the shovel down…and back away…
racrecir
Andy McCarthy: For the record, I continue not to understand why people are so quick to absolve Saddam of any involvement in 9/11.
CPA staffer: I’m not here for the Iraqis. I’m here for George Bush.
David Warren: This is the meaning of Mr. Bush’s “bring ’em on” taunt from the Roosevelt Room on Wednesday, when he was quizzed about the “growing threat to U.S. forces” on the ground in Iraq. It should have been obvious that no U.S. President actually relishes having his soldiers take casualties. What the media, and U.S. Democrats affect not to grasp, is that the soldiers are now replacing targets that otherwise would be provided by defenceless civilians, both in Iraq and at large. The sore thumb of the U.S. occupation — and it is a sore thumb equally to Baathists and Islamists, compelling their response — is not a mistake. It is carefully hung flypaper. . . .
Instapundit emailer: Which means that the hand-wringing quagmirists are performing an essential task. I’m sure they are getting lots of headlines in doubtful parts of the world. Their predictions of disaster are being heard by all. So legions of terrorists are now scratching their heads and stroking their beards and saying, “Br’er Rabbit doesn’t want to be thrown in the Briar Patch. He said so. Therefore, Brothers, it is the Will of Allah that we cast him into that Briar Patch!”
Glenn Reynolds: Heh. Maybe it’s more like the “tarbaby” approach.
Andrew
Quick, someone check Tim F. for horns so we can be sure.
Formerly Wu
“Shock Troops” publication date: July 23
First comment on the situation by the editors: July 24
Beauchamp reveals himself: July 26
Army begins investigation, Beauchamp on lockdown: July 27
TNR publishes statement, which mentions interviews with dozens of experts and other members of Beauchamp’s unit: August 2
That’s four days from publication to lockdown, and then 6 of additional third-party fact checking.
What about that is not consistent with “rigorously fact checked before… and after?”
John S.
Here’s an absurd post from Confederate Yankee trying – as usual – to absolve the wingnutosphere. See, they never actually questioned the existence of Beauchamp:
Sadly, No! responded with several quotes from the likes of Malkin, Hot Air, LGF and Ace of Spades that succintly shows otherwise. So of course CY backed down when shown to be completely full of shit? Sadly, no:
Never mind that batshit insane bloggers are far from being journalists, but anyone with half a brain can look at the quotes provided by Gavin and see the context clearly. The point was to imply that Beauchamp was a fake.
Anyone except Confederate Yankee, that is.
dslak
If you see the Jew coming, you must be careful of his teeth!
capelza
Wingnuttia does not do “context”.
dslak
I bet they would if you discussed biblical hermeneutics with them. “You’re taking the verse out of context!” is a common retort against criticisms of particular forms of conservative theology. Of course, if their theology is anything like their politics . . .
Bubblegum Tate
Not only that, some wingnuts use the CIA’s confirmation that Plame was covert as ironclad proof that she was NOT covert. It’s pretty awesome. It’s kind of like what they did with the Duelfer report, using it to say the opposite (Iraqi WMDs!) of what it actually said (no Iraqi WMDs!). Which leads us to another item for the wingnut list:
We found WMDs in Iraq! (Seriously, some of them still cling to this notion as gospel truth).
Furthermore:
Evolution is liberal indoctrination!
Nobody could’ve predicted those things many people predicted!
Hillary is a hardcore Stalinist!
Bush = Lincoln!
Abortion = The New Civil Rights Struggle!
Abortion = The New Holocaust!
The Iraqis love us and want us to stay!
Fronts NYC
I propose a little thought experiment for the Tom Clancy wannabees and 40 year old virgins that make up the Coalition of the Shilling these days…Suppose that “Scott Thomas” turned out to be not only a former gay porn star and prostitute, but someone who had never actually served in Iraq, and was currently under investigation by the US military for fraud…Do you think the comment threads on Ace, Protien, Blackfive, or any of the other brave warriors and their legions of sub-mental fans would be marked by their restraint and sober respect for a gay man who happened to be a liar and propagandist.
I really love it when the the likes of Jeff Goldstein and Ace concern troll about the homophobia and dangerous intolerance of the “Left.”
Could there be any better ending to this story than the Weakly Standard turning to Rod Majors to refute the work of Scott Thomas? Could there be ANYTHING that more perfectly sums up the complete lack of self-awareness, and childish mewling that has become the hallmark of these brave internet warriors?
brock o. baum
What about that is not consistent with “rigorously fact checked before… and after?”
Ummm…only that the previously, rigorously fact-checked facts had changed…
…ah, what the hell…both Iraq and Kuwait are in the Middle East…right?..
….doofus…
capelza
Oh cripes, your right. Only the inexplicable contradictions of the Bible need “context”
Which reminds me of something a wingnut told me when I asked why the focus on the OT when Jesus was all about the NT? Specifically the Sermon on the Mount and especially the Beatitudes. I swear it was at Red State, but certainly someplace similar.
“What Jesus said were only suggestions, the Old Testament is LAW”.
So “Christians” say those pesky sayings of Jesus are only “suggestions”.
Tax Analyst
Hey, isn’t that the old “Lunatic Express” line? I used to take that same route all the time.
I sort of remember a time – not all that long ago, when you bristled somewhat when some commenter’s here knocked Jeff G and some of the other’s around a bit…guess the “friendship” feelings were not reciprocal.
To be a little less snarky, I think that’s an honest-to-goodness shame.
brock o. baum
John S. Says:
Never mind that batshit insane bloggers are far from being journalists, but anyone with half a brain can look at the quotes provided by Gavin and see the context clearly. The point was to imply that Beauchamp was a fake
Tax Analyst
per some ad hominating wingnut –
In fairness, though, they didn’t call him a “vile, LYING creep”. Probably just an omission on the writer’s part.
If the tables were turned around and Beauchamp’s story supported the Wing-nuttery’s cherished fantasies that omission would be taken as proof that B-Champ told the truth.
Remember, Vileness in defense of Wing-Nuttery is no vice.
Ripley
Two kinds of fruit!
Gathering threat!
Last throes!
Mission Accomplished!
Turning the corner!
Elevated threat!
They stole the W keys!
No one could have anticipated!
bin Laden determined to strike inside US! Oh, wait…
Xanthippas
Digging deep now “brock.” I’d say you’re almost in late night radio type stuff now.
The Commissar
John,
Mocking the woman with the melted face (a comrade, right?) always seemed the least believable aspect.
When first pressed, in speaking to ABC News,
http://abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=3412782&page=2
Foer said:
As you know (no link needed), it supposedly occurred in Kuwait, not at FOB Falcon, near Baghdad. TNR says “Oops.” You and Kevin Drum say “minor error.”
Now the PAO officer in Kuwait says “Urban Legend,” about any such incident.
And Matt Sanchez says that the Army (FOB Falcon unit) officially disputes Beauchamp’s whole story.
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day; maybe the wingnuts got lucky on this one. If you want to change the discussion to “It doesn’t matter if Beauchamp is lying, because Malkin is evil,” … okay. That’s a point.
But, to the extent you/we want to discuss the facts of the matter, the actual incident, Beauchamp’s veracity, it doesn’t look so good for him.
One more point. You’ve engaged in a bit of logical fallacy on this matter, as follows:
(I confess that preceding bit is compressed and can be quibbled with, but I think you see what I’m driving at.)
Regards,
(I know how to use link tags, but it looked FUBARd in your comment preview, so I left the naked URL.)
Tax Analyst
Aha…a closet Jew…I knew it…
I self-hate myself for saying that…
Formerly Wu
But that wasn’t your original complaint.
So which is it? Are you concerned that a single fact changed, or do you think TNR is lying about speaking with Beauchamp? Or are you just blowing smoke out of your ass?
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Bruce Moomaw
You know, if there’s a story about the conduct of Our Boys in Iraq whose veracity very badly needs to be checked, it’s Cpl. Saul Lopezromo’s testimony in the court-martial of Trent Thomas for the Hamdaniya murders. Quoting CNN on July 15:
__________________________
CAMP PENDLETON, California (AP) — A corporal testifying in a court-martial said Marines in his unit began routinely beating Iraqis after officers ordered them to “crank up the violence level.”
Cpl. Saul H. Lopezromo testified Saturday at the murder trial of Cpl. Trent D. Thomas.
“We were told to crank up the violence level,” said Lopezromo, testifying for the defense. When a juror asked for further explanation, Lopezromo said: “We beat people, sir.”
Within weeks of allegedly being scolded, seven Marines and a Navy corpsman went out late one night to find and kill a suspected insurgent in the village of Hamdaniya near the Abu Ghraib prison. The Marines and corpsman were from 2nd Platoon, Kilo Company, 3rd Battalion, 5th Regiment.
Lopezromo said the suspected insurgent was known to his neighbors as the “prince of jihad,” and had been arrested several times and later released by the Iraqi legal system. Unable to find him, the Marines and corpsman dragged another man from his house, fatally shot him, and then planted an AK-47 assault rifle near the body to make it appear he had been killed in a shootout, according to court testimony.
Four Marines and the corpsman, initially charged with murder in the April 2006 killing, have pleaded guilty to reduced charges and been given jail sentences ranging from 10 months to eight years. Thomas, 25, from St. Louis, Missouri, pleaded guilty but withdrew his plea and is the first defendant to go to court-martial.
Lopezromo, who was not part of the squad on its late-night mission, said he saw nothing wrong with what Thomas did. “I don’t see it as an execution, sir,” he told the judge. “I see it as killing the enemy.” He said Marines consider all Iraqi men part of the insurgency.
Lopezromo and two other Marines were charged in August with assaulting an Iraqi two weeks before the killing that led to charges against Thomas and the others. Charges against all three were later dropped.
Thomas’ attorneys have said he suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury from his combat duty in Falluja in 2004. They have argued that Thomas believed he was following a lawful order to get tougher with suspected insurgents.
Prosecution witnesses testified that Thomas shot the 52 year-old man at point-blank range after he had already been shot by other Marines and was lying on the ground.
Lopezromo said a procedure called “dead-checking” was routine. If Marines entered a house where a man was wounded, instead of checking to see whether he needed medical aid, they shot him to make sure he was dead, he testified. “If somebody is worth shooting once, they’re worth shooting twice,” he said.
The jury is composed of three officers and six enlisted personnel, all of whom have served in Iraq. The trial was set to resume Monday.
___________________________
Intersting, no? Even more interesting is that 5 days later, Thomas was convicted of the murder, but given a — literal — slap on the wrist. CNN, July 20: “Cpl. Trent D. Thomas was found guilty Wednesday of kidnapping and conspiracy to commit several offenses — including murder, larceny, housebreaking, kidnapping, and making false official statements — for his involvement in the April 2006 death in Hamdaniya, Iraq. Thomas will be demoted to the rank of entry-level private and will receive a bad-conduct discharge.”
Combine this with those “reduced sentences” for all the other participants, and one does wonder whether he was let off lightly because he was in a position to help kick the lids off too many garbage cans.
I don’t believe that any of the Blogospheric Rightists currently frothing about Scott Beauchamp have uttered a peep about Lopezromo’s story, though. Once again, a little too hot for them to touch? (Kind of like the Americal Division’s conduct in Vietnam, of which — according to the decidedly non-hysterical Charles Lane in his story about Colin Powell in the 4-17-95 New Republic — the My Lai massacre was only one part? Guerrilla warfare brings out the absolute worst in all armies, including America’s.)
brock o. baum
So which is it? Are you concerned that a single fact changed, or do you think TNR is lying about speaking with Beauchamp? Or are you just blowing smoke out of your ass?
John S.
The Commissar-
I see what you’re driving at, but from the get go, John made it clear that he didn’t really care about the veracity of Beauchamp’s story.
His commentary on the matter has solely been about the response by the right-wing blogosphere (and holding it up to ridicule). At least, that is what I have gathered from reading these posts.
By the way, I love the tagline of your site. Compared to your posts from a few years ago here, it couldn’t be any more succinct.
cleek
given the number of things that do check out in his story, his veracity is miles beyond that of the wingnutweb.
He Doesn’t Exist ! (reality 1: wingweb 0)
He’s Not A Solider ! (reality 2: wingweb 0)
A Bradley Can’t Hit A Dog ! (reality 3: wingweb 0)
Nobody Would Do That To A Skull ! (reality 4: wingweb 0)
etc.
Wilfred
I don’t waste my time with Greater Wingnuttia (a great phrase), especially when vile creeps like this get a whopping 448 days for being found guilty of conspiring to murder an unarmed Iraqi civilian and nary a word from the right. Where’s the outrage here? Where’s our colleague Army Lawyer? What a fucking joke.
John Cole
Commissar-
I have never said everything Beauchamp has written is true. I am saying that the alleged debunkings don’t disprove them at all.
Jake
POTD.
And in answer to your questions:
Only if Hot Rod accidentally released his old client lists.
I can’t think of anything.
John Cole
Actually, Commisar, what he said:
The reactions have been absurd.
TR
That Confederate Yankee post may be the dumbest thing he’s ever written.
Which is really quite an accomplishment.
dslak
If being wrong about one thing destroys a person’s credibility, what does this say about the Bush administration’s credibility re WMD’s, flowers at soldiers’ feet, etc?
Justin Slotman
Wait–I got one!
SWEETS AND FLOWERS!
capelza
Wilfred, he didn’t run over a dog. That’s where Greater Wingnuttia draws the line. Murdering civilians ain’t got nothing on running over a dog.
Reason/Hit and Run did a post about this a few days ago and the picutre accompanying it was of some soldier’s sweetheart from WW2 contemplating the Japanese skull he’d sent her. Think about that.
The Other Andrew
I predict that this sort of obsession over ultimately meaningless details (as many have pointed out, the Beauchamp stuff pales in comparison to other more well-documented atrocities) represents the future of conservatism. They can’t argue the main issues without looking like fools, so they’re reduced to passionately debating issues where they still have a foothold, no matter how tiny and irrelevant those issues (and their foothold) might be. They can’t debate the main matters of the war without being reminded of lies, incompetence, and hypocricy, so this is all that’s left to them.
In time, they’ll get very excited over side-issues that have to do with evolution, global warming, healthcare, and social matters, and attempt to use those things as a lever to affect the main issues. But their credibility is so bad that they can’t go after the main issues directly…
Dreggas
Msuhroom. SHaped. Clouds.
There’s a sign from the old west that says: “wanted, dead or alive”.
I don’t think about bin laden much.
Musharaff is a good aly
Shit the entire past 6 years have been a joke. Sadly it shows what happens when 28% of the electorate is allowed to elect the president.
brock o. baum
His commentary on the matter has solely been about the response by the right-wing blogosphere (and holding it up to ridicule). At least, that is what I have gathered from reading these posts.
You just may want to go back and re-read his posts.
…and Sanchez’sexuality doesn’t matter here, either
brock o. baum
In time, they’ll get very excited over side-issues that have to do with evolution, global warming, healthcare, and social matters, and attempt to use those things as a lever to affect the main issues.
…Lordy, don’t get me started on these things too
28 Percent
Of course you can not believe “Scott Thomas” “Beauchamp” about the story about him laughing at a deformed woman. Our brave soldiers would not do that. Of course Beauchamp said that his friend and him laughed at her and that is believable as they aren ot brave soldiers at all Beauchamp admits that he laughs at disfigured people and how can you believe a story told by somebody who admits that he laughs at disfigured people? So he probably laughed at her because he is that sort of person but nobody else did and even though he did not say that they did that is what he meant but they did not do that she does not even exist. Beauchamp says she did but how can you believe him he admits he laughed at her and a person who would do that would do anything?
dslak
This reminds me of something said about academics. Something like “the battles are so bitter because the stakes are so small.”
Dreggas
just re-read the following, preferably out loud, real loud:
I am sofa king we todd id.
Formerly Wu
Ok.
Damning!
Wilfred
That’s the irony. They started off their crusade against Beauchamp with the usual drivel about how it would aid the enemy, who’d use his stories to inflame the people, losing ‘hearts and minds’. What about this? Wait till the Baghdad papers get a hold of this (and they will). The man was not killed accidentally in the heat of combat but flat out murdered.
Justice was not done here, not when thousands of Iraqi men have been stewing in prisons for a lot longer than 448 days without even a trial. This charade will get far more American soldiers killed than anything that Beauchamps could ever write.
The collective lack of interest on the right about something that really will fucking matter on the ground in Iraq is yet another indication that the only way to understand Buscho and its town criers is to remind oneself that they don’t act in good faith.
Tax Analyst
Yes, you have concisely distilled the essence of the Wing-Nut response to the B-Champ Diaries. As you can clearly see, as in all matters, their logic is absolutely unassailable.
“Laugh, laugh, I thought I’d cry…” by the Beau(champ) Brummels…circa mid-60’s
tBone
You may want to go back and read his posts. You know, for the first time.
dslak
Arguably, given the views of some fundamentalist Muslim groups on the uncleanliness of dogs, Beauchamp’s diaries might help us in the Battle for Hearts and Minds®!
Bruce Moomaw
I suspect, from the sloppy typing, that “28 Percent” is a kid. In any case, he/she had better read the New Republic’s piece on its fact-checking of Beauchamp’s story — they got corroborative testimony from the guy who said he was the other soldier laughing about the burned woman.
If you want to say that this was slimy behavior on Beauchamp’s part, you’re correct. It’s even slimier if — as now appears — he did it BEFORE entering the war. The point of most of us is that this does nothing at all to affect the facts that (1) his stories about the behavior of other troops have also checked out completely; (2) they — like his own little laughfest — are absolutely trivial compared to some other behavior by US troops in this war that HAS been solidly confirmed by other sources; and (3) they are the sort of extremely sick “humor” and limited sadism that often occurs among the soldiers of virtually EVERY war, including the justified wars that Ameia has been involved in in the past. So, once again: why are the Right-Wing Blogospherists behaving like a bunch of screeching Victorian maiden aunts confronted with a mouse in regard to his story?
Tax Analyst
Bruce, I thought “28 Percent” was a snarky spoof. At least I hope so.
John Cole
28 Percent is a spoof.
That what is written by 28 percent is completely indistinguishable from what passes as thought by Greater Wingnuttia is what is so amusing.
Or scary. Take your pick.
Perry Como
Next you’ll be telling us that The Corner is a spoof.
28 Percent
What scares the everloving shit out of me is when I read some of the comments in Greater Wingnuttia and realize that my shpiel is sane by comparison. Honestly, my method is often: cut, paste and then tone down.
Tax Analyst
Like I said:
Andrew
Wait a god damned second.
Are you saying that the Corner is NOT a spoof?
Please explain Kathryn Jean Lopez, then.
28 Percent
Uh, I mean, YOU LIEBERALS can not see the TRUTH that our BRAVE SOLDIERS have HONOR maybe if you ACCEPT JESUS…
ah fuck it. I don’t have the energy today.
racrecir
Are liberal blogs sending the same message as terrorists?
dslak
It’s Friday. Sit back and take a load off.
Tax Analyst
Really…it must be hard being a spoof. I mean, how can you top some of the shit that the hard-core W-Nuts really seem to mean?
I’d salute you, but I don’t have a whole lot of energy today, either.
Perry Como
Don’t be fooled by the articles that I got
I’m still, I’m still Katrhyn from the block
Used to have a little, now I have a lot
No matter where I go, I know where I came from – N R O!
Dreggas
You have to have a very, very loose grip on both reality and sanity and consider it fun to just let go now and then, once you do that it just flows out of you.
Or you can just write a computer program filled with buzzwords, after all give a room full of chimps typewriters and they’ll produce redstate overnight.
tBone
So who would win a catfight between JLo and KLo? I’m rooting for injuries.
Jake
I just laughed so hard something I drank yesterday shot out my nose.
Thanks 28%.
RSA
I was wondering whether Birdzilla had graduated to multi-line responses with fewer than two or three errors per line, but I was sadly disappointed.
Dreggas
Hey John,
Wonder how ol HH is doing now that his BFF Mitt has endorsed Hezbollah as a model of diplomacy?
Bruce Moomaw
Sorry, “28 Percent”. At this point, all of us are a little rhetorically shell-shocked.
I really am going to have to take a breather by going over to Democratic Underground (or maybe “The Guardian’s” site) and getting flabbergasted by some genuine LEFTIST extremists, as a change of pace.
Cain
It’s something when “28 Percent” breaks character. You’ve been slipping mister!
cain
JW
You Know John,
Your really not funny, but you are ill. If you, for a moment think that this is a “no effect” incident, you have a major problem. If you think for a moment that this soldier, “was not taken into protective custody” you have a problem. He is exactly the same POS you used to be. I find it hard to believe, that you can’t help but see yourself getting this creative, that would focus the attention on you. You are a Vet, I give you that and thank you for your service. Benedict Arnold was a great soldier and officer, he made the fatal mistake. You are a ? soldier as with many of your Democratic Representatives. You are not true Democrats, you are buried in a disguise. Your representatives have and will continue to commit treason, display themselves as traitors and not will be done. The media defends you and you are never questioned about your lies. You should feel proud of yourself and what you represent.
Wilfred
I’ll tell you what. Sgt. Lawrence Hutchins, pride of the Marine Corps, just got 15 years for murdering a Muslim gook named Hashim Ibrahim Awad, they actually have names, you know?
15 whole years, when all he did was drag a 52 year old man from his home in the middle of the night, throw him in an irrigation ditch and pump 10 rounds into his sorry, rotten raghead.
And I say God bless our glorious troops, and as a favor to the real meaning of American justice, I’m going to have that just and righteous verdict spelled out in good Arabic on Iraqi blogs by tomorrow morning.
And I know, by God, that there will be an effect, and that every Iraqi who had any doubt on the good intentions of people like you, JW, will read that and know, in his heart, just what you mean when you imply your own vision about truth, justice and the American way. Cause what we want is truth, and I want you to feel proud of Sgt. Hutchins, Jw.
TenguPhule
Shorter JW: Dear Leader is a gutless duty cutting pussy who’s idea of hard work is clearing brush on vacation, but if you oppose him obviously you’re a faker in uniform who hates America and wants to sell us out to the
CommiesBROWN PEOPLE!!Is it a bad sign that one can’t tell the spoofs from the nuts anymore?
brock o. baum
Well, looky here…it’s official now:
Col.Steven Boylan, Public Affairs Officer for U.S. Army Commanding General in Iraq, David Petraeus:
To your question: Were there any truth to what was being said by Thomas?
Answer: An investigation of the allegations were conducted by the
command and found to be false. In fact, members of Thomas’ platoon and company were all interviewed and no one could substantiate his claims.
..notice that he did not Beauchamp’s claims could not be corroborated…he said they were false…flat-out….
…so I guess thise mysterious witnesses did not exist after all…
…it was fascinating to see to what ridiculous lengths to defend this guy that the leftists would go…they simply did not care how stupid it made them look…
…and it was sad to watch them smear a soldier (Sanchez) just because he chose to speak up..
TenguPhule
I do not think that word means what you think it means.
100% of soldiers facing punishment for admitting an act will deny it.