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You are here: Home / z-Retired Categories / Previous Site Maintenance / Open Thread

Open Thread

by John Cole|  August 5, 200710:14 am| 26 Comments

This post is in: Previous Site Maintenance

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Barry Bonds.

Or David Broder.

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Previous Post: « The Bridge- The New Political Weapon
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Reader Interactions

26Comments

  1. 1.

    HeavyJ

    August 5, 2007 at 10:42 am

    Republicans defund program for sick kids, then lie about it – Broder derides “partisanship,” blames “Congresss”.

    Par for the course.

  2. 2.

    The Other Steve

    August 5, 2007 at 11:02 am

    Chaps like Broder just don’t understand.

    Congress isn’t about getting bills passed. It’s about getting good bills passed. If that takes a bit of time, and many a few swags at it, well so much the better.

  3. 3.

    demimondian

    August 5, 2007 at 11:08 am

    Republicans defund program for sick kids, then lie about it – Broder derides “partisanship,” blames “Congresss”.

    Not exactly. Broder blames the “Democratic Congress”.

  4. 4.

    Bob In Pacifica

    August 5, 2007 at 11:36 am

    Henlsey, the pitcher who gave up the home run, was busted for steroids when he was down in the minors two years ago. I guess that’s why the clowns in the bleachers were holding up those asterisk signs.

  5. 5.

    HeavyJ

    August 5, 2007 at 12:19 pm

    By the way Cole, the soldier you were talking about at Yearly Kos was a filibustering wingnut who spent his time accusing VoteVets of cowardice. If it had been the RNC, he would have been beaten to death.

    Spineless Dems? I guess so.

  6. 6.

    canuckistani

    August 5, 2007 at 12:29 pm

    I was pissed off by the Barry Bonds thing until I realized that it was utterly trivial and meaningless. It’s not like anyone will ever admire BB like the do Hank Aaron.

  7. 7.

    myiq2xu

    August 5, 2007 at 12:43 pm

    When Barry Bonds showed up in SF in 1993, he put on a hitting display that rocked the “Stick,” hitting .431 with 7 homers in his first month. Fans started bowing to him after each homer, ala “Wayne’s World.”

    Barry’s homerun swing is a thing of beauty. When he connects, everyone knows it’s gone. Most of the time, the pitchers don’t even bother to look, they just hang their heads.

    Yes, Barry almost certainly used steroids. But so did a lot of other players, including the men pitching to him.

    One stat that the “steroids, steroids” chanters miss is intentional walks, both single season and career. Barry long ago crushed those records. The year he broke the single season HR record, he was walked 177 times in 153 games. And that was only the third most walks he had in a single season.

    He’s been walked 2539 times in his career. Imagine if they had pitched to him even half the times they put him on first with 4 pitches.

    Put another asterisk next to the first one for that.

  8. 8.

    Andrew

    August 5, 2007 at 1:10 pm

    I love the fact that Barry Bonds is a huge, walking fuck you to the pedantic and annoying baseball purists. Yeah, I’m talking to you, George Will.

  9. 9.

    John Cole

    August 5, 2007 at 1:16 pm

    Actually, one of the most bitter flame wars I have ever been in was over Barry Bonds.

    I am from the group of people who extend a big middle finger to everyone who gets worked up about Bonds and wants to put an asterisk next to his name. Every god damned owner, every god damned manager, and every god damned player and fan has known for YEARS that steroid and substance use has been a big thing in major league baseball, and while every other sport did things to stop it- baseball dragged their feet.

    Barry Bonds gave everyone exactly what they wanted- remember how home runs “saved baseball” with Sosa and Maquire? You want proof half of baseball was juicing- Brady fucking Anderson. No one even batted an eye at that.

    So spare me the bullshit. Barry Bonds didn’t do anything thousands of other players haven’t done, with the key difference being that Bonds was an amazing baseball player to begin with. Hell, even Bonds’s most ardent critics will admit he didn’t do anything until late in the game, like 1998, after he got sick and tired of all the other people juicing and getting credit (Sosa and Maquite, anyone?) and getting away with it. In that sense, you could even state Bonds is a victim of what baseball did to him, as he had to use roids to do what he had to to keep up with the rest of baseball.

    The only reason we are having this conversation is because Bonds is, admittedly, a dick to reporters. So what? I think Bob Costas sucks, too. He has ruined Inside the NFL, and the Olympics are, if possible, less watchable with his presence.

    If purists want to bitch about something, they should bitch about the designated hitter, which is an abomination and has made the American League unwatchable.

  10. 10.

    ThymeZone

    August 5, 2007 at 1:52 pm

    Barry Bonds gave everyone exactly what they wanted

    Exactly and precisely so. From fans to owners, he, like Mark McGwire, did what they wanted. And sold the tickets.

    It’s a true tragedy. Barry had all the gifts and was a wonderful ballplayer. Now he’s a bloated home run machine who just stands as a symbol to the dark side of professional sports. He’s a symbol, but he isn’t the cause and he isn’t to blame for what’s happened.

    As for being a dick to reporters? Jesus wept. The reporters are jock-sniffing boobs.

  11. 11.

    Dave

    August 5, 2007 at 2:17 pm

    key difference being that Bonds was an amazing baseball player to begin with.

    Who didn’t need steroids to begin with. That’s what pisses me off and frankly makes it so sad. So fuck Barry and Sosa and the lot of ’em.

    I’m just hoping Vlad comes up behind them and mops up all the crap.

    Speaking strictly as a Giants fan, I’m still pissed the front office didn’t pick him up when they had a chance.

  12. 12.

    myiq2xu

    August 5, 2007 at 2:44 pm

    The whole sports statistics and records hoopla is just that, hoopla. Especially when you start comparing the stats of players from different eras.

    Bonds spent his entire career in the National League, rather than shifting to the American League where he would have been a DH years ago.

    Not to take anything away from Hank Aaron, but he played most of his home games in hitter-friendly parks. When Babe Ruth played, pitchers routinely pitched complete games,and there was no such thing as a “closer.”

    Unlike football, where the dimensions of each field are identical, each baseball park is unique. Compare the “friendly confines” of Wrigley Field to the “Big Green Monster at Fenway or the old Polo Grounds.

    But even in football, some players have to endure extreme weather, like the “frozen tundra” of Lambeau Field, while others play at least half their games indoors in perfect weather.

    If we’re going to put an asterisk next to Barry’s records, then we have to put one next to every player in this era, because even the ones who didn’t use steroids played with and against players who did.

    In the early days of baseball, Babe Ruth and Cy Young were dominant players. In the 50’s and 60’s, it was Mantle, DiMaggio, Mays and Aaron.

    Steroids or no steroids, the most dominant hitter in the modern era has been Barry Bonds. Even now, in the twilight of his career, nobody turns on a pitch like he does.

    Someday, Barry’s records will fall too. That does not diminish what he has accomplished today.

  13. 13.

    myiq2xu

    August 5, 2007 at 3:02 pm

    If you really want an example of how good Barry Bonds is, How about this:

    It was 2002 or 2003, and Barry came to the plate in the 8th or 9th, with the bases loaded and the other team clinging to a 2 or 3 run lead.

    After demonstrating that he wouldn’t chase a bad pitch and taking the count to 2-0, Barry had the bat taken out of his hands when the opposing skipper held up four fingers,intentionally walking in a run.

    If I remember correctly, the opposing skipper was Bruce Bochy, the current Giants manager. And the strategy worked, the Giants lost that day.

  14. 14.

    Far North

    August 5, 2007 at 3:06 pm

    God Damn, John Cole, your post about Bonds precisely sums up the way I feel about. I never gave a crap that Bonds treated sportwriters with such distain. The “anti-Bonds, angry, bitter sportswriter” is who’s been driving this story for years.

    As a baseball fan, I love to watch Bonds hit. What disgusted me all these years were those chickenshit managers and pitchers who pitched around him so frequently in the past 7 years. Some jerkoff in Houston (Phil Garner?), even intentionally walked him in the 8th inning of a game with his team down 8 runs.

    One shout-out to Willie Mays (and a “what if” warning). If Mays had played in the hitter friendly parks that Aaron did instead of Candlestick, Willie would have surely surpassed Aaron. In the early 70s, the Braves even moved their left field fence in 15 feet to give a boost to Hank. No disrespect to Aaron, though, just an aknowledgement to Mays.

  15. 15.

    ThymeZone

    August 5, 2007 at 3:59 pm

    It was 2002 or 2003, and Barry came to the plate in the 8th or 9th, with the bases loaded and the other team clinging to a 2 or 3 run lead.

    Don’t know about that, but the first time was in 1998, against Arizona, when AZ manager Buck Showalter walked him with the bases loaded, and won the game.

    That was back before we were sure Barry was on the juice.

    By “we” I mean the fans, I am sure that a lot of baseball people knew it.

  16. 16.

    srv

    August 5, 2007 at 4:21 pm

    I’m wondering how many other folks make BJ their first stop every day? The blogroll loss has really impacted my meager life since I’m missing several blogs whose relative positions in the roll I knew, but didn’t have bookmarked.

    Stuff like Philip Carters intel-dump.com. Which is one I do remember.

    Not that I have any expectations, now that the policy is one of insensitivity and all.

  17. 17.

    myiq2xu

    August 5, 2007 at 4:28 pm

    I always try to start my day with a BJ, but sometimes my girlfriend says no.

  18. 18.

    canuckistani

    August 5, 2007 at 5:28 pm

    On a personal level, I like Hank Aaron and don’t much like Barry Bonds. I’m not going to cry about the unfairness of it all, but I feel the same sort of disappointment I felt when Frazier beat Ali. The cool guy was gone.

  19. 19.

    Downpuppy

    August 5, 2007 at 6:51 pm

    That Bonds at 45 may still be the best hitter in his league is amazing. Almost as amazing as that Broder still has not one clue that there’s any real problem at the Justice Department. If they keep him in a freezer, (like they did Rose Kennedy when they needed a few extra years before they could admit she’s croaked), who’s really writing his “columns”, and do they feel shame or get the giggles?

  20. 20.

    The Other Steve

    August 5, 2007 at 8:15 pm

    The only reason we are having this conversation is because Bonds is, admittedly, a dick to reporters. So what? I think Bob Costas sucks, too. He has ruined Inside the NFL, and the Olympics are, if possible, less watchable with his presence.

    Funny. I don’t watch sports. But Bob Costas once filled in for Larry King, and he was incredible.

    But then, that’s because I was comparing him to Larry King who is probably the worst interviewer ever.

  21. 21.

    David

    August 5, 2007 at 8:26 pm

    Well, since this IS the open thread… what is Newt’s angle? Does he honestly think he will sweep into the race later this year as the Republican White Knight? If he really is a Reagan follower, then he must know that Reagan’s 11th Commandment was always “Republican will not speak ill of Republican”.

    So is Newt all about the presidential race right now, or are we actually seeing his true assessment of the State of the Party? And how hard will the Talking Heads and Right bloggers hit back at him early next week?

  22. 22.

    TenguPhule

    August 5, 2007 at 9:05 pm

    Our Great Military at Work

    In a race to the stupid, the winners are clear.

  23. 23.

    TenguPhule

    August 5, 2007 at 9:06 pm

    Fixed

  24. 24.

    ATS

    August 6, 2007 at 10:05 am

    Broder, Will, Krauthammer, Hoagland— my God, who still reads these old farts! It’s not as if their track record warrants it.

  25. 25.

    Paul L.

    August 6, 2007 at 11:32 am

    For the defenders of MADD.
    When failure to police yourself against crimes you haven’t committed becomes a crime
    Alcohol Odor Sensors in Passenger seats.
    Opposing drinking by train riders.

  26. 26.

    caleb

    August 6, 2007 at 9:10 pm

    I can’t wait for Barry to hit 756.

    Barry deserves to get in the HOF. There is no legit reason to keep him out.

    After all, being an asshole is not something that keeps one out of the HOF. Just look at Ty Cobb.

    Being a cheater is not something that keeps one out of the HOF. Just look at Gaylord Perry.

    No one can look at Cobb and Perry in the HOF and tell me with a straight face that Barry shouldn’t be there too.

    All the baseball “Purists”…..I fart in your general direction.

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