A verdict has been reached in the Padilla verdict.
Bold Prediction- One side of this debate will be outraged by the verdict.
Regardless the outcome, there is no excuse for his treatment, no useful information has been gained from his treatment, and he is irreparably damaged from his treatment.
I know I feel safer.
*** Update ***
Guilty.
*** Update #2 ***
Let’s see how accurate this premade script will end up.
Incertus (Brian)
I have little doubt that he’ll be found guilty of something–the public pressure to do so will likely outweigh anything the government did to Padilla. It’ll be a travesty all the same.
Wilfred
Any chance he’ll get released with ‘time and torture’ served’? Or is he too brown for that?
Lee
I’m outraged already.
Nothing beats pre-issue outrage :)
Davebo
Guilty, as expected.
And for all I know he his. His guilt or innocence are irrelevant when considering his treatment.
But why didn’t we just do this 5 years ago?
PaulW
Here I am, scanning the CNN website, waiting for the verdict, when we get a BREAKING NEWS REDFLASH! BREAKING NEWS!
And it’s Jenna Bush getting engaged?!?! WTF?
Methinks it’s someone trying to upstage the newscycle with something else…
pharniel
padilla’s lucky he wasn’t an unruly teen.
the culture of corruptoin’s beeing doing this to ‘willfull children’ since the mid 90’s
tough love or this experince
FOr more go here
anyway, this entire thing makes me want to choke some bitches around the country.
piddilla is just the easiest and most covered symptom of the ‘violance is the one touch resolution for everything’
Pixie
Guilty on all counts. I do wonder, why was he not charged with these things in the first place instead of being held indefinitely for so many years? Also, what happened to the “dirty bomb” allegation in which he was originally apprehended for?
This is also amazing, I didn’t know you could actually fill out applications to be a terrorist LOL. Apparently this document had his finger print on it. Why is our CIA not combing the records at the Al Qaeda HR department? Hmmmmm????
myiq2xu
A quick verdict in this case would mosy likely favor the defense.
I would expect at least a couple jurors to be wishy-washy on one or more counts even if the rest of the jury were leaning to convict. That they were unanimous on all counts so quickly signals acquittal.
I will boldly predict – not guilty on all counts
Every really quick verdict I have seen was a not guilty. My first win was a 20 minute verdict. They would have been done in 10 but everyone had to use the bathroom first.
Punchy
I find it incredible that the jury was not allowed to hear that he was held in solitary for 3.5 years prior to his move to civilian custody. As if that’s just a unimportant detail.
It’s a bad day in the country to be Brown and at an airport.
Incertus (Brian)
Also, what happened to the “dirty bomb” allegation in which he was originally apprehended for?
Government had to drop it because Padilla didn’t have a lawyer and wasn’t Mirandized. Plus, it might have opened the door to all sorts of discussions about how Padilla was treated in government custody.
Dreggas
If he was guilty of a real tangible crime, then good. However given his treatment and such over the past 5 years my guess is this will have as big an asterisk next to it as Barry Bonds breaking Aarons record…
Remfin
I honestly cannot fathom the verdict. The government didn’t present any evidence against him except a shady document the defense was forbidden to rebut. They gave what was supposed to be a “code manual” for the conversations between the other 2 supposed co-conspirators and then said Padilla was in on it and using the code…and yet he never used any of the words they said were part of the code (and he was barely in any of the calls…)
zmulls
I want to hear an interview with some of the jurors *after* they hear the facts they weren’t allowed to hear…
Days like this I wonder how we get our country back…
Justin
He was apart of the attack on 9/11, right?
I mean he’s brown, his name is Padilla, and he’s guilty of terrorism, so he must have been behind 9/11.
Elvis Elvisberg
I haven’t paid any attention to the trial, so I don’t know how much evidence the jury had to deal with.
But the guilty verdict is forever tainted by his treatment. This could have happened five years ago. What was the gain to the country’s security, to our system of justice, by doing this?
We’ll never know. They’ll tell us they got good information by torturing him, and we can’t know what it is, and no other institution can oversee his treatment.
“Just trust us, we’re trying to keep you safe.” What could be less American that torturing a citizen in the service of that principle?
ThymeZone
And yet,
So, there is brown, and then there is Brown.
Ugh
I would love it if the judge sentenced him to time served and ordered him released.
Incertus (Brian)
If he was guilty of a real tangible crime, then good. However given his treatment and such over the past 5 years my guess is this will have as big an asterisk next to it as Barry Bonds breaking Aarons record…
Yeah, because those two events have sooooo much in common…
Zifnab
Clarify me on the details if I’m a bit fuzzy, but it sounded like Padilla was guilty of something. I don’t really want to see him released as much as I want to see everyone responsible for his detainment brought up on the docket.
Wilfred
Zucchini? Eggplant? Fried, they both give me gas. Is that code?
They monitored from 1993 to 2001???
Jake
No big surprises. Sentencing should be interesting.
Unless Bush gets confused and waives his jail term.
Zifnab
They both involved the use of illegal drugs, if that makes you feel any better.
norbizness
Volokh’s prediction, unfortunately, breaks down because the charges eventually brought have no relation to the press releases during his 3.5 year, KGB-style, unconstitutional detention.
Dreggas
Aaron’s Record broken under questionable terms
Padilla convicted under questionable terms.
Tsulagi
Well, when trying to properly assess this type of situation, a trip to uber patriot Michelle Malkin’s site is necessary. One thing that stood out for me was a piece of Michelle’s timeline chronicling the clearly obvious transformation of gangbanger wannabe to become the worst of the worst. Wisely necessitating suspension of habeas corpus for American citizens to keep the rest of us safe…
Okay, what I want to know is have we picked up that goddamned Taco Bell chihuahua yet? Obviously it was a clandestine AQ recruiter speaking in code in those Taco Bell commercials. Let’s hear that little bastard now say “Yo quiero Gitmo.” 9/11 changed everything.
Lee
Any bets that it gets overturned on appeal?
Incertus (Brian)
Any bets that it gets overturned on appeal?
Not from me. What appeals court is going to overturn a conviction on terrorism charges, regardless of how faulty it is? Maybe I’m just overly cynical on this, but I don’t see Padilla ever getting out of prison.
jnfr
I believe he was convicted of having his fingerprints on a piece of paper. The paper was an application to join the Mujahedin. He never actually filled out the application as far as I know.
IANAL, but from what I read there are lots of grounds for appeal here. I still hope the true story of his treatment at the hands of the government comes out. Though since they fortunately managed to lose the video of his interrogation, and he’s now incompetent to take part in his own defense, probably the full truth will never be told.
But remember, this man is a U.S. citizen. Anything they do and have done to him, they could do to any of us.
Cassidy
Oh God! It’s “Free Tookie” all over again.
The guy was just convicted of terrorism charges. Save your sympathies for those who deserve it.
Dreggas
Now see I read that little bit as Malkin saying:
“SEE WHAT A TRAITOR HE WAS!!! WHILE WORKING AT AN ALL AMERICAN RESTAURANT LIKE TACO BELL HE WAS PLOTTING TO KILL US ALL!!! GOD ONLY KNOW WHAT HE PUT IN THE SOUR CREAM!!!”
This is, of course, because Taco Bell is all american processed animal leavings not real mexican food.
Incertus (Brian)
The guy was just convicted of terrorism charges. Save your sympathies for those who deserve it.
I don’t know where you’re reading sympathy into my comment. But there are significant questions about the fairness of his trial, and I think those questions will never be addressed by an appeals court. I’m worried about the system, not the individual defendant. Change the circumstances a bit, and damn near anyone in the nation could be Jose Padilla. Doesn’t that bother you?
Punchy
Uh…if that’s the in downtown Davie they’re referring to…uh..yeah…I’ve been there many times….weird.
myiq2xu
He should have used “loofah” and “falafel” for code words.
incontrolados
If you’re not doing anything wrong, you don’t have anything to worry about, remember?
Dreggas
[CENSOR] I Like Pie [/CENSOR]
I figure I may as well censor myself….
dingo
This just in, Jose “Scooter” Padilla pardoned by Bush! White House blames nickname confusion and bugs in the programming of a new pardonometer from Diebold.
Zifnab
That was my knee-jerk reaction too. But Cassidy has a point. The only people who deserver our pity are those who haven’t done anything wrong their entire lives. If you run a red light, and the government busts you for evading police while attempting to detonate a nuclear warhead in a high population setting, maybe you shouldn’t have run that red light.
Clearly, Jose Padilla was asking to be imprisoned for five years and repeatedly tortured. Maybe that will teach him and his ilk not to do whatever it is that they did that was illegal.
Jake
Drink meets monitor.
Cassidy
He was convicted by a jury of his peers. That’s how the system works. Debate over, move on.
Dreggas
On bullshit evidence. Then again OJ was acquitted by a jury of his peers but I bet you think he was guilty don’t you?
cleek
the debate should be even more interesting, now, since this is probably going to be appealed.
Tulkinghorn
Ha!
Make me move on, buddy. This conviction means that the charges brought by the government were proven beyond a reasonable doubt. That is irrelevant to 90% of what made his case sensational, politically significant, and legally significant.
myiq2xu
Sending your resume to the mafia with an offer to join up doesn’t make you a member of the Sopranos.
Conspiracy to murder somebody, somewhere, someday seems a little thin.
Materially supporting terrorism by football using zucchini seems like something only Steely McBeam could do.
myiq2xu
Every single one of the 200 people freed by the Innocence Project were convicted by jury of their peers.
Oops, DNA says they were innocent!
Gus
Ah, the debate has been declared over. I guess I’ll go to another blog.
Tax Analyst
OH…I get it now…don’t trouble your little LIEBRUL heads about the time an American Citizen spent incarcerated in solitary confinement without access to counsel, the torture and “coercive” interrogation techniques that the Government will not discuss and that the original accusation apparently did not hold water.
After all, he got his due process, didn’t he? A trial’s a trial.
Furst yu getz yurr Fare Trile…an den dey puts yu bak en jale…the Amurricann Wayy.
Rights of an American Citizen…void where prohibited by the GWOT.
But it won’t ever happen to you, right? As long as nobody ever THINKS you did anything wrong.
Thanks a lot, Mr. Bush & Mr. Gonzalez. Now I don’t have to be needlessly confused about what rights I have and don’t have. It’s all up to you and your current whims or political needs at any particular moment…just as the Founding Fathers envisioned it.
I feel safer and safer with every passing moment.
Incertus (Brian)
He was convicted by a jury of his peers. That’s how the system works. Debate over, move on.
So, no one has ever been wrongly convicted? No one?
Psycheout
Justice has been served. American Justice still works. No matter how badly the kook left wants terrorists to go free, President Bush’s lock-em-up approach to terrorism has been vindicated.
I bet a lot of leftist heads are exploding today.
Cassidy
Doesn’t matter what I think. Everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty. OJ is innocent until the evidence says convincingly otherwise. If the evidence was bullshit, then he wouldn’t have been convicted by his fellow citizens.
If the conviction is overturned, I wish him luck as an innocent man.
No, what you think is important about it is irrelevant. He was charged and convicted.
200 out of the thousands in jail is a pretty good record.
Psycheout
The Padilla love fest here is hilarious. If you guys like the guy so much, why don’t you marry him? LOL!
incontrolados
I don’t think Cassidy is familiar with the particulars of Padilla’s case.
Cassidy
If you weren’t on the jury, then neither are you.
myiq2xu
Unless you happen to be one of the 200.
But how many more innocent people are sitting in prison, were in prison, or have been executed but had no DNA evidence available to prove their innocence?
What percentage of innocent people convicted is acceptable?
incontrolados
Cassidy, do you know how he came to be before that jury in the first place? Do you know whether or not he testified on his own behalf? Do you know what his defence was?
Zifnab
I’m shocked and aghast at the notion that an allegedly good Christian Brownbacker like yourself would so trivially bander about the notion of men engaging in the devil’s wedlock.
Beej
Cassidy, let me familiarize you with the Innocence Project. The only cases they take, from the many requests they receive, are those where DNA evidence could have had an impact on the outcome had it been available at trial. That number is further screened to see if there is usable evidence containing DNA still available for testing. As you can imagine, the number of cases actually accepted by the Innocence Project is quite small. Out of that small number, 200 people who were convicted have been proved innocent by DNA evidence. So you see the total number of people convicted of crimes has absolutely no meaning in terms of those helped by the Innocence Project. How many people do you think might have been wrongfully convicted who have no chance of ever being exonerated because DNA evidence would have no bearing on their case or because evidence containing DNA no longer exists? That’s a truly frightening thought.
dslak
Only if you’re considered about trivial things like justice. Me, I just like it when a trial concludes, so I can say “Debate over, move on.”
Tax Analyst
The discord isn’t about whether Padilla was guilty or not. It’s about whether it’s acceptable for our government to abridge the rights of any citizen just because they “think he’s a bad guy”. If Padilla really did wrong it could have been proven in a court of Law in a manner that still acknowledged and protected his individual rights, and it could have been done several years ago. Is it so radical to ask for no more than that in the case of any American?
BTW – My position does not equal “this guy wants the terr-er-wrists to win”.
If you think so, well, then you’re a moron.
Perry Como
If you want to have “the highest incarceration rate of any modern nation” omelette, you have to break a few eggs.
Zifnab
Show me another country that outsources its prisons to businesses who are, in turn, big financial backers of said country’s dominant political party.
Is it a surprise that prison contractors and Republican Congressmen always seem to come in pairs? It’s almost as though a certain subset of the population has found a way to charge Americans for throwing themselves in jail. Nice deal if you can get it.
Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop
Agreed, he shouldn’t have been held for 3.5 minutes, much less 3.5 years. Two to the back of the skull out behind the airport would have been infinitely more effective, not to mention befitting for this murderous traitor bastard?
But keep on with the “If Bush is agin’ him, I’m fur ‘im!” lovefest.
After all (guffaw!) he was only guilty of “being brown at an airport!” (And volunteering and training to kill you and your family for Al Qaeda, if called on.) But mostly the being brown thing.
You guys are beyond parody.
Perry Como
But you are pretty good at satirizing a sane person, scs. Look! You’re a terrorist! BANG! BANG! LAWLZ!!!
Worked well for that Brazilian chap in London that was shot with your wingnut brand of justice, didn’t it? Just a shame he was, like, innocent ‘n shit. Oh well. Sometimes you have to break a few eggs! HAH! BANG! HAH!
Jake
Translation: But enough about him, let’s talk about ME!
The Other Andrew
Murderous? Did he actually kill anyone or try to kill anyone?
I’m all for locking someone up for joining or helping a terrorist organization–especially when one considers the abortion-clinic bombers out there–but I’d prefer not to torture them and convict them on trumped-up charges.
Perry Como
That’s because you are a moonbat. Real Americans demand the terrorists be shot on site, on US soil. Remember that lawyer in Oregon that was jailed because of his involvement in the Madrid bombings? They should have put two in the back of his skull! RAWR! ME TOUGH REPUBLICAN!!!
Tax Analyst
And you seemed ever-so-nice when you used to do that TV variety program back in the 60’s…sigh…
Was it all just an act?
I feel so let down.
tBone
I get the feeling EEEEEEEL enjoys posing in front of the mirror wearing nothing but a gunbelt holding two revolvers, one named “Due” and the other “Process.”
Whatever tents your trousers, I guess.
TenguPhule
Spoof Alert!
EEEL has blown their cover!
Punchy
Yeah, but he made some fat titty chalupas and pintos and cheese. I’d give him time served if I were the judge, with the promise to fire up a gordita or two for the baliff and his posse.
Zifnab
Wasn’t that Mr. VT Killer’s popular past time? We better all run out right now and buy us some guns to protect ourselves from crazy-ass EEEL.