This does not wash:
We should have done the same with Padilla, especially since he was captured not on a foreign battlefield but here in the US. If he conspired with al-Qaeda to kill Americans, then he’s a traitor — but even traitors have to be convicted in criminal court, with the due process we expect as Americans. And since it seems that the government had all the evidence it needed to convict him at the time of his capture, they have no excuse for applying an exotic and incorrect status to him to strip him of his rights to due process. After they won the conviction that would send him to prison for life, they could have worked on the other case at their leisure.
The Bush administration has done an excellent job in protecting this nation from attack, but they made a mistake with Padilla — one they implicitly admitted when they finally moved his case to the criminal court system. It’s one they should acknowledge explicitly and endeavor not to repeat.
And from his comments:
Good work, Captain! It is good to hold all administrations to the requirements of the constitution.
This was not a mistake. It was intentional. It went on for YEARS. It was only stopped at the threat of accountability via the Supreme Court. And they won’t be held accountable, they won’t explicitly admit to their “mistake,” and the next time they do it, the same folks who looked the other way and threw up red herrings about liberals loving terrorists and having Bush Derangement Syndrome will do the same God Damned thing. Christ- check the right-wing blogs. They are claiming VINDICATION.
There is no admission of error or wrongdoing (the closest we will get is someone in 2010, long after they are all in the private sector, will pen a book that states something along the lines of “we could have handled Padilla better”) , there is no accountability, and the only lesson to be learned from this whole debacle is that a certain brain-dead segment of the population is so partisan and so short-sighted they can be counted on to run cover for anything done in defense of “their” President. Well, we also learned that a good portion of the right wing only really cares about the Constitution when it looks good in sound bites and when it protects abortion protesters. Otherwise, TIME TO GET YOUR TORTURE ADVANCED INTERROGATION TECHNIQUES ON.
I love the commenter, too, and it really sums things up- accountability for this administration is some lone blogger, in this case, Captain Ed, telling the administration that next time they really shouldn’t shred the Constitution. Hell, why not double dog dare them to do it again, Ed?
*** Update ***
From the comments:
You’re right, John, but you’re also singling out the one guy who is actually drawing the right conclusions, as opposed to all the conservatives who are cheerful and proud about what we did to Padilla.
I am not trying to be unfair to Ed- as I have stated repeatedly, I like him and think he really does try to be a straight shooter and tries to call things as he sees them. Does he occasionally say some hackworthy things- sure, but if a perfect record were required for blogging this site would have been closed 4 years ago. And in this case, he is right about what should be done, but failing to accurately state what this administration did and why they did it, as well as to openly acknowledge the bullshit spread by the Bush administration lackeys is to give them a pass for their wretched AND intentional behavior in the Padilla case.
Padilla’s treatment was not an accident. It was by design. And this administration got everything they wanted out of it and more. Hell, I am betting you could find some campaign slogans that even used Padilla against Democrats in 2004 and 2006 if you looked.
*** Update #2 ***
Shorter Jules Crittenden:
Liberals are wrong to be upset about the shameful abuse of an American citizen’s rights because in 1780, before there was a Constitution, George Washington oversaw the hanging of a British soldier found to be a spy.
Steve
You’re right, John, but you’re also singling out the one guy who is actually drawing the right conclusions, as opposed to all the conservatives who are cheerful and proud about what we did to Padilla.
I actually give the administration a little bit of the benefit of the doubt. When they arrested Padilla in 2002, there was still a great deal of panic over the idea that the next shoe was about to drop, I can see them saying “we have to find out what this guy knows, we can’t just put him in the criminal justice system.”
The problem is that they never learn. They did so many things and instituted so many programs in a blind panic after 9/11, and then never went back to rethink them at any point. It shouldn’t have taken three years and a bevy of court challenges before they said okay, let’s just convict Padilla of something and then no one can question his incarceration. It shouldn’t have taken several years and several leaks to the media before they said okay, panic time is over, let’s get Congress to provide legal authorization for the surveillance we need.
I still don’t know if Padilla got a fair trial. I hope he did, but it really seems like they tortured this guy to the point where he wasn’t even able to cooperate in his own defense. And the fingerprint evidence seems really, really weak to me. I sure hope the decision from the appellate court leaves me with a better feeling about the outcome.
SomeCallMeTim
The Bush administration has done an excellent job in protecting this nation from attack, but they made a mistake with Padilla—one they implicitly admitted when they finally moved his case to the criminal court system.
This is such crap. They wanted the victory on the books from Luttig, and then, knowing they’d lose above, decided to charge him as a criminal. They weren’t just not admitting error, they were institutionalizing the error for possible future use.
Grumpy Code Monkey
Indeed, it’s like a scale version of the cult of personality that developed around Mao. In the eyes of a significant number of people, President Bush can literally do nothing wrong.
LITBMueller
As someone who works in criminal justice, this type of “24” reasoning really pisses me off. When a serial killer is finally arrested, the cops don’t say, “Hey, we need to find out if he’s got any more captured little girls hidden somewhere. We can’t put him in the criminal justic system. Don’t bother reading him his rights, just attach the electrodes to his genitals!”
Neither do we bypass the Constitution when it comes to gun runners, bigtime drug dealers, or white collar criminals (nobody suggested Ken Lay should be waterboarded). But, those types of people destroy American lives every fucking day!
We are all more likely to get shot walking down some American street, then be blown up by a terrorist. Hell, we’re all more likely to fall off a ladder and die – its just sheer statistics. But, its Padilla who needs to have his rights violated?!?!?
That’s just insane.
Padilla was just a test case. Ever stop to wonder: are there any other Americans that have been “taken out of the crim justice system” that we don’t know about, yet? Because, if they were willing to do all this with Padilla, who knows how far they’ve really gone?
The Other Steve
Doesn’t the 8th amendment say something about a speedy trial?
Or did 9/11 change everything?
Ugh
I think the judge ruled that the speedy trial clock didn’t start until he was actually charged with a crime, which is a rather large loophole.
Zifnab
Which nation is he living in?
Jake
Does anyone know the disposition of the knuckle heads from Florida (Sears Tower) and the men arrested for the JFK plot?
By way of comparison I know the guy who left a nail bomb outside of an abortion clinic in TX is in the CJ system.
magisterluti
I bet AQ was surprised to find out they had such a loyal supporter in Padilla. He has about as much cred as a terrorist as the tighty-righties have with the majority of Americans. What an anemic “vindication”. A conviction based not on evidence, but intimidation and suspicion. This is our justice system.
Greed, fear and lies: GOP mantra
Andrew
Jules Crittenden proves each and every day that retarded simians can indeed use keyboards.
IanY77
Y’know, there are only two people in the conservative side of the blogosphere that I genuinely think may have honest to God mental issues. Crittenden is one, and Jeffy G is the other. The rest believe what they believe, however misguided I happen to believe they are. For the sake of balance, a couple of the girls at Pandagon would have to qualify (check this link out if you doubt me. Bad, bad call by Edwards).
LITBMueller
The Cap’n:
Oh, you mean the analysis that starts with this?:
Talk about rose colored glasses! Sheesh!!!!
Cap’n:
Great, but that still doesn’t answer the question of what we learned from him by keeping him isolated in a Navy brig for 3 years (and whatever else was done to him).
The real answer is “squat.” Plus, an appeal may get the conviction overturned, anyway!
Shinobi
Jules Crittenden was educational, I didn’t know you could get high on kool-aid.
Tsulagi
Bullshit. The Constitution was not written with an asterisk that said “When shit happens and you’re feeling afraid, toss this thing aside.” It was written for WHEN shit happens.
Jake
On Appeal[s]:
The earliest you might see a ruling on appeal would be during the very last throes of the election cycle. By that time this Administration won’t care. As John has noted, they’ve already proved they can crap all over the Constitution.
Mission.
Accomplished.
Of course, he still has to be sentenced. Anything less than 10 life sentences with no chance of parole will make the neo-cons swoon.
Wilfred
I suspect the Captain is again taking his talking points from the Administration. I’ll bet there are a few among the 28% who are a bit conscience stricken about robbing Padilla of due process (hell, it could happen to them!). Thus the Captain’s ‘tut-tut’ obfuscations about how mistakes were made and how it won’t happen again, ever. Ass covering is all it is.
BTW, wasn’t he the one who the right-wing rallied around when the Canadians were blocking his site? Free speech and all that? Another blowhard hypocrite.
rawshark
I used to be one of those people. If its not being done or proposed by a dem it must be good for america.
Now I just sit and stare blankly at my right wing friends as they try to tell me I just don’t get fashion when I’m trying to tell them the emperor is naked.
John S.
Not to go all Godwin, but I just saw this quote and thought it was rather apropos:
“Of course the people don’t want war. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.”
–Hermann Goering, Nuremberg, 1947
Tsulagi
Goering used that argument to sway then reluctant Nazi leadership behind him and Hitler for pre-emptive war. Without looking it up for an exact quotation, I believe Goering also added the way he outlined to sell it was the way it had always worked in past history.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Cassidy
That was quite possibly the most retarded “debate” I have ever seen.
Ladies and gentlemen, I have made a mistake. While I do consider the majority of you all to be lefty to a fault, you are nowhere near the level of kook that I just witnessed from that link.
IanY77
Cassidy:
No kidding huh? Rarely do I read something that makes me want to jump through the intertubes and strangle the author, but that one qualified. Ratatouille was one of the best movies of the year, but if that’s what you took out of it, get your head checked.
zmulls
You know, I’d love to see Luttig (who resigned in disgust) assist on the appeals — wouldn’t you love to see him argue this in front of SCOTUS?
Salty Party Snax
The endorsement that has the tighty righties wetting themselves with joy!
Gays for Giuliani
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVCoDVDpxcuQ
Gus
LITBMueller, I suggested we waterboard Ken Lay, but no one listens to me.
Steve
Without looking it up, who wrote the following:
The correct answer… wait for it… Justice Antonin Scalia.
I haven’t even taken it out of context. In fact, the context is exactly the same. Hamdi v. Rumsfeld.
racrecir
The Captain is noticing mission creep:
He’s so cute when he’s trusting.
SomeCallMeTim
Luttig (who resigned in disgust)
Bullshit. If this shit comes back to bite on the ass, it’ll have Luttig’s name on it. At best, he’s embarrassed that a play he made for a shot at the Supreme Court was unsuccessful and unconscionable. One out of two, I bet he could have dealt with.
Jake
The comments on Capn’s Sat. post are priceless. They fall into two categories:
1. “I DON’T HAVE ANYTHING TO HIDE. But I don’t think this is a good idea.”
2. WE’RE AT WAR! YOU DON’T HAVE PRIVACY RIGHTS IF YOU’RE DEAD!”
I can’t tell how much is spoof though.
Tsulagi
Not my favorite justice on the court, but he got that dead-on right. As I meant to say above in an earlier comment, the Constitution doesn’t include an asterisk that says IF shit happens, toss it aside, but rather it was written for WHEN shit happens.
Even includes remedies and courses of action that can be taken in times of emergency. Who knew? Maybe the admin in Rummyesque fashion can argue it was a known known that was unknowable to them.
Props to Scalia for his reasoning in this case.
The Other Steve
Just curious. I’m preparing for the Republican National Convention coming to town, and I have a question.
What kind of diapers do Republicans wear? I think we need to stock up with extras, with all this pants shitting going on.
Dreggas
Earth to Cap’n Ed. They have eliminated posse comitatus that means the military is now enabled to do law enforcement work and bring its assets to bear on you and me and they are doing so. Welcome to the world bush created. We are being surveilled and locked down. But it’s ok the republicans believe in YOUR right to privacy and it’s the democrats who will bring you big brother….
Dave
Finally had some time to read the Democracy now interview from the last post.
Literally made me ill.
I don’t know how we as a supposed nation of laws could have let that happen.
Tsulagi
Well, now that the tendencies of the GOP base are known, they like dual purpose diapers that are also on message.
grumpy realist
Our problem is that we don’t know enough history. We’ve flipped off all of that “Olde Europe” stuff, forgetting that there are damn good examples in European history as to why we have checks and balances, the rule of law, and we don’t let the king have his way.
In fact, a heck of a lot of the rights we take for granted during trials–right to hear the evidence against one, right to confront one’s accuser, right against double-jeopardy were put in place by the Inquisition.