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You are here: Home / Politics / War on Terror / War on Terror aka GSAVE® / Streets Without Joy, 2007

Streets Without Joy, 2007

by John Cole|  August 26, 20072:43 pm| 20 Comments

This post is in: War on Terror aka GSAVE®

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The Intel Dump draws some unpleasant comparisons regarding the latest Allawi/Maliki US-endorsed jockeying.

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20Comments

  1. 1.

    TenguPhule

    August 26, 2007 at 3:08 pm

    Meet the new Saddam, same as the old Saddam.

  2. 2.

    Punchy

    August 26, 2007 at 6:50 pm

    OT:

    The New Beauchamp

    Wait until Malkin feasts her eyes on this. $10 she doesn’t know what “superfluous” means.

  3. 3.

    Wilfred

    August 26, 2007 at 7:04 pm

    Give me a break. Whatever merits he might have, Carter doesn’t know fuck all about Arab history or the dynamics of Arabo-Islamic culture. Hence:

    I do think the Maliki government is the largest obstacle to meaningful political progress in Iraq. But, we don’t exactly have a lot of options. If the Maliki government falls, I doubt that any democratic government can be formed in its wake.

    I’m not going to waste my time with this inanity. Islamic society prioritizes social justice, not banalities about FREEDOM or LIBERTY, or other nonsense puked up by the conditioned, Western regurgitation machine. If you want to ‘appeal to authority’ try Pat Lang or the Arabs themselves.

  4. 4.

    caustics

    August 26, 2007 at 7:23 pm

    I’m trying to be optimistic. The silver lining of this whole tragic era could be that it was the final exam of neoconservatism, and it has failed miserably. It has been exposed as a silly, useless and deeply flawed ideology that has no contingencies to handle the complexity and nuances of global politics.

    Add to that the domestic failure to deliver an abortion-free, 100% heterosexual marriage of Christ and Government and you have a whole bunch of pissed off former straight-ticket GOP voters.

    Hopefully they will get a clue this time, or just stay the fuck out of it in 2008.

  5. 5.

    jake

    August 26, 2007 at 8:12 pm

    This was all I needed to read:

    Let me be clear. Responsibility for the current mess in Iraq rests primarily with the Iraqi government, not with the United States.

    to know that Rove wrote this op-ed.

    All the familiar talk about what needs to happen without a single sign that there is actually some sort of plan to make it happen was another clue.

  6. 6.

    incontrolados

    August 26, 2007 at 8:36 pm

    I saw thins link on Think Progress — TPM on where Allawi’s money for the lobbying firm might be coming from.

    It’s just going to get thicker between now and September 11th.

    And who was the genius that thought that date was a good idea? Wingnuts I’ve read seem to think that congress chose the date. I haven’t read anything except holidays on wed. and Thurs. and the deadline is Sat., the 15th.

  7. 7.

    incontrolados

    August 26, 2007 at 8:45 pm

    And Punchy — I can’t remember if you posted a similar link to Army of Dudes on another thread, but thanks for the reminder.

    Also, yours is the first comment on that TPM link I just put up. Exactly.

  8. 8.

    TenguPhule

    August 26, 2007 at 10:54 pm

    The silver lining of this whole tragic era could be that it was the final exam of neoconservatism, and it has failed miserably.

    Failure never stops neoconservatism, it just makes the believers more crazy and more determined to hold power.

  9. 9.

    stickler

    August 26, 2007 at 11:59 pm

    Oh, hell:

    Islamic society prioritizes social justice, not banalities about FREEDOM or LIBERTY, or other nonsense puked up by the conditioned, Western regurgitation machine. If you want to ‘appeal to authority’ try Pat Lang or the Arabs themselves.

    Almost NONE of the major Western European societies prize Freeance and Peeance above food and justice, either. Bismarck, Napoleon III, Mussolini, the Swedish Social Democrats, the Swiss — fer cryin’ out loud, everybody — prize(d)s lawnorder, cheap bread, and some kind of equality, above the right to shout freely while you starve.

  10. 10.

    dslak

    August 27, 2007 at 4:46 am

    The silver lining of this whole tragic era could be that it was the final exam of neoconservatism, and it has failed miserably. It has been exposed as a silly, useless and deeply flawed ideology that has no contingencies to handle the complexity and nuances of global politics.

    Would that this were so. Instead, all the neocons are still getting jobs in politics and the media (e.g., Kristol at Time), and are still taken seriously as invited guests on all the talk shows. Neoconservatism will only go away when people close to the decision-making process stop listening to them, and that doesn’t appear likely to happen anytime soon.

  11. 11.

    Lupin

    August 27, 2007 at 4:58 am

    From “In Retrospect” by Robert S. McNamara:

    Lessons from Vietnam:

    1. We misjudged then — and we have since — the geopolitical intentions of our adversaries … and we exaggerated the dangers to the United States of their actions.

    2. We viewed the people and leaders of South Vietnam in terms of our own experience … We totally misjudged the political forces within the country.

    3. We underestimated the power of nationalism to motivate a people to fight and die for their beliefs and values.

    4. Our judgments of friend and foe alike reflected our profound ignorance of the history, culture, and politics of the people in the area, and the personalities and habits of their leaders.

    5. We failed then — and have since — to recognize the limitations of modern, high-technology military equipment, forces and doctrine.

    6. We failed as well to adapt our military tactics to the task of winning the hearts and minds of people from a totally different culture.

    7. We failed to draw Congress and the American people into a full and frank discussion and debate of the pros and cons of a large-scale military involvement … before we initiated the action.

    8. After the action got under way and unanticipated events forced us off our planned course … we did not fully explain what was happening and why we were doing what we did.

    9. We did not recognize that neither our people nor our leaders are omniscient. Our judgment of what is in another people’s or country’s best interest should be put to the test of open discussion in international forums. We do not have the God-given right to shape every nation in our image or as we choose.

    10. We did not hold to the principle that U.S. military action … should be carried out only in conjunction with multinational forces supported fully (and not merely cosmetically) by the international community.

    11. We failed to recognize that in international affairs, as in other aspects of life, there may be problems for which there are no immediate solutions … At times, we may have to live with an imperfect, untidy world.

    It is heartening to see how well we memorized these lessons. Not.

  12. 12.

    searp

    August 27, 2007 at 7:54 am

    GWB ought to wake up and realize he has been dealing with a failed state ever since the invasion.

    All the talk of the horrible consequences of a failed state fails to mention that we’re there. We’re living the consequences of a failed state in Iraq, and have been for almost 5 years. We should get used to it.

    Corollary: If there are worse consequences to come, he ought to spell out how and why. I think he has simply chosen Iraq to be the cockpit of our fight against the Middle East. We’re taking on all comers, for reasons that are awfully obscure.

  13. 13.

    searp

    August 27, 2007 at 7:57 am

    Once Allawi is installed we will have a referee who is on our side, basically a creature of the CIA. It will be interesting to see the reaction of Middle Easterners to this development.

  14. 14.

    Punchy

    August 27, 2007 at 8:16 am

    OT:

    Gonzo gonezo for good-zo.

  15. 15.

    chopper

    August 27, 2007 at 8:45 am

    OT:

    Gonzo gonezo for good-zo

    i saw it. my monday just got brighter.

  16. 16.

    Stooleo

    August 27, 2007 at 9:09 am

    Anyone got any predictions on who will get the next presidential freedom award? (Heck of a job there Fredo.)

  17. 17.

    rachel

    August 27, 2007 at 9:18 am

    I heard Bush wants Skeletor for the job.

  18. 18.

    Bob In Pacifica

    August 27, 2007 at 9:34 am

    Back in the good ol’ days of war in Southeast Asia when a regime wasn’t performing well we could engineer a military coup. In fact, it’s worked everywhere our puppet regimes had a standing army beholden to western arms deals and dealers. Coups give the appearance of flushing the stables, like our friend of democracy Mussharref over the hill aways.

    The problem in Iraq is that BushCo abolished the army. How can you stage a coup without a functioning army? Is the chief of police in Baghdad going to overthrow Maliki? How about the guy in charge of electricity?

    When there is no army, heck, no infrastructure, no real government, how can someone in a government that can’t even get the water to run out of the taps or get the electricity to run overthrow a government?

    That’s why it all looks so transparent. The stick men are too thin.

  19. 19.

    LITBMueller

    August 27, 2007 at 9:53 am

    This all goes along with what Juan (not John) Cole wrote on his blog last week”. Namely, that a coup is in the works for Iraq.

    And, like all “good ideas” in government, this was something dreamt up before:

    The CIA embraced Allawi’s plot for a military coup in 1994, giving it the cryptonym DBACHILLES. The agency decided to broaden Allawi’s network into a “Military Committee” that included Iraqi officers from other networks. The idea was that CIA-backed Iraqi generals would lead their units against Baghdad and destroy Saddam.

    And, while he and our other proposed post-Saddam Strongman, Ahmed Chalabi, don’t get along, they are in fact related by marriage.

    So, meet the new Chalabi. Same as the old Chalabi.

  20. 20.

    Bubblegum Tate

    August 27, 2007 at 12:23 pm

    I heard Bush wants Skeletor for the job.

    Really? I heard it was Mumm-Ra. I’ll have to check my sources.

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