In the comments to this post at Balloon Juice where my integrity was called into question, some ignorant commenter (who didn’t bother to read what I had written about the Obama flap) said that those on the right who consider themselves patriotic are, in fact, nationalists instead.
I’d ask him in the comments where I questioned his integrity in this post, but he doesn’t have any (comments, that is). I guess it must have been right after I said “I like Rick Moran.”
Rick Moran
Oh yeah, John. That post you wrote was a real love letter.
Get stuffed.
The Other Andrew
I await the day when we get “A xenophobe and proud of it!”, “Pro-torture and proud of it!”, etc.
John Cole
If you want an apology for me pointing out that you have a tendency to say things I agree regarding the Republicans, then a few days later freaking out about something inconsequential (and generally fabricated out of nothing) about Democrats, and then documenting an example of you doing JUST THAT, it isn’t going to happen.
Still not sure how that questions your integrity, though. A demonstration of foolishness, of course. Integrity, no. Just because it wasn’t a “love letter” does not mean I questioned your integrity, because I didn’t. I remember what side you were on during the torture debates.
Bombadil
Probably was referring to this:
I think rawshark nailed it perfectly. Granted, he misspelled “patriotism”, but then Rick keeps insisting on misspelling his name as “Moran”.
Punchy
I smell a brew ha-ha forming the likes of which BJ hasn’t seen since Jane “the hamster” Hamsher can in here guns ablazin’, most likely for something stupid Cole said, being that it was The Old Pompous Cole back then.
John S.
Nationalist and proud of it, eh?
I don’t want to jump the shark and go all Godwin here, but history tells us that there is something unhealthy about people identifying as nationalists. Particularly when the recipe is right-wing + authoritarian + nationalism. Quite frankly, it all smacks of fascism, especially when folks like Moran would agree with the statement:
Which happened to be Mussolini’s slogan.
Elvis Elvisberg
It’s true, hardly a day goes by without Matt Yglesias, Ezra Klein, and Atrios quoting Derrida at length.
And man, am I tired of Hillary Clinton’s constant Foucoult allusions, and Barack Obama’s fawning Helene Cixous quotations.
Hypocrisy, thy name is Rick “Get a Brain” Moran.
And your fellow travelers aren’t nationalist, they’re tribalists. Nationalists don’t rush out to buy books calling half of their countrymen traitors.
mantooth
I’m glad Moran has this outlet. Otherwise he might be out there actually accomplishing something.
“You fight them in Iraq, I’ll fight them here… on the internet!”
God Bless you and your important work.
John S.
Well, one of the defining traits of nationalism is identifying an enemy/threat to the nation and railing against them/it. That enemy generally exists outside the nation, but obviously these neo-nationalists also dwell on the enemy ‘within’.
But I think that’s just semantics.
lee
To: Rick Moran
Re: “Integrity”
You keep using this word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
:)
Zifnab
I think I know where Rick is coming from. I’m not, personally, a Nationals fan myself, but if they got their pitching together, I think they’d have some room to really shoot for the post-season. Also, they need to stop getting their best players injured.
But you can’t just stop being a National because they’ve had a tough few seasons.
Bombadil
True, it’s much easier being a Patriot fan. And what with all that surreptitious eavesdropping on the opponents, I would think the right-wingers would embrace being a Patriot fan.
rawshark
Hi Rick. Reading your novel on patriotism/nationalism reminded me of this:
John Cole
What I said was “The Jane Hamshers of the left” in a comments section of a post to refer to the grenade chuckers on the left (something Jane is proud of being, and I would argue we need more of right now to balance things out):
And she freaked out because she had never actually said what I used the phrase the “Jane Hamsher’s of the left” to refer to. She then came in, and over the course of about 10 minutes FREAKED THE FUCK OUT. 1:38 pm:
1:41 PM:
1:46 PM:
1:48 PM:
I had made the terrible mistake of not being near the computer for a half hour.
At any rate, several of the people razzed me here for it for a while, and I still think it was stupid. If I were to say ‘The Rick Moran’s of the right” to refer to people who were disgusted with Republicans but who always managed to get worked up over the Democrats being worse, no one would flinch.
Since then, I have linked to Jane cautiously when I agree with her, but still think can be a crazy person.
Elvis Elvisberg
Zifnab– you’re probably right about nationalism and tribalism.
You’re dead wrong about the Nationals, though. No team with Dmitri Young flopping around in the outfield until 2009 is going to contend for the playoffs, even in the
JVNL. And please, Bombadil, there’s no comparing the Patriots to the Bush administration. There’s no cronyism to be found in that organization.More fun from the Nut House:
Fixed.
rawshark
Lets try that again.
Bombadil
That whole JHotL episode was exciting. Dozens of comments, John jumping in to defend himself as best he could, foul language all around, tempers flaring, snark erupting everywhere.
Odd thing, though — if I recall correctly, John never shut off the comments and showed no fear of his audience’s reactions. What’s that called again? Oh, yeah — integrity. He could have shut off comments, but that would be cowardly, wouldn’t it?
rawshark
Here’s the one you really need to read Rick. It should keep you frm throwing around Websters dictionary references like they prove your point.
RSA
I actually find this pretty insightful of Rick:
It captures most of my view of the difference, at least.
Bombadil
Which one do you think describes the healthy relationship?
bs23
not to start a “yeah! comments!” love-fest, but the comments here are half the reason i lurk! the other half being periodic insights into floor cleaning / pet care / etc. seriously though, i don’t bother reading sullivan anymore, for instance, because his huge ego precludes having a comments section. he’s always going on and on about msm doesn’t “get” blogs, but…
neil
Sounds like you accused Rick of being predictable and formulaic. If he thinks that’s challenging his integrity, what is he doing writing about partisan politics?
John Cole
That was the high water mark for Doug J snark. Those were good times. I think he is now off to greener pastures.
And if you scroll down to the end of the comments (there were 600+ of them) Justin Slotman had my back.
A lot of the people giving me a hard time were just doing it to give me a hard time- and let’s face it, I was (and still am) an asshole, even though the point of the initial post was to defend someone against charges of racism that were unfair. I usually get in the most “trouble” defending people, whether it be that scumbag Bill Bennett or Dick Durbin or Ben Domenech or Kos or whoever. Never figured out why, but I guess people don’t like their lynch mobs stopped.
capelza
I loved that! It was great. Don’t forget, too, that Cole/Tim are quick to ban either.
capelza
Damn…John Cole and TimF Are NOT quick to ban.
Focality
Why doesn’t Rick allow comments to his post?
Funny, since in his post he claims conservatives will take each other to task over questionable behavior (even allowing each other to question American actions/motives in the Middle East, i.e., Iraq. GASP!), but liberals do not (“Don’t tase me, bro!”).
Must be a fascist.
Punchy
This seems to be a common behavior of hers. She’s like the female Mike Tyson.
The Other Steve
I think it was when you said:
Hey! Wait a minute!
BTW, I must take a moment here to say that I think it’s rather harsh for Rick Moran to call John Cole a fucking liar. I think the word ‘liar’ is just rather harsh. Cole didn’t really lie. He just told what he knew given the best intelligence known at the time. There was nothing intentional there, Cole had the best of intentions the whole time. So calling him a fucking liar just comes off as a bit shrill.
Perhaps the real problem is Moran suffers from John Cole Derangement Syndrome, which is why he can’t appreciate that Cole argued in good faith and meant well. Clearly though we can’t have any reasonable debate, while Rick Moran continues to throw the liar word around.
Ned Raggett
In reading Rick’s post there, I noticed this:
This made me think of a great line from that truly great American, Ambrose Bierce:
Right before it is this one:
Now, Mr. Moran may see this as evidence of my evil leftist nature when it comes to patriotism, and yet I note that Bierce, while not a perfect person in my view — many biases and views of his are of their time — has not only considered an essential truth but went through the best test of it.
Let us not forget that he was a Civil War veteran decorated with honors, and fought in a conflict more truly vital to the existence of the nation, however we want to consider it, than the current conflict, paranoia aside. The excellence of his stories and essays on that period — “An Occurence at Owl Creek Bridge” being merely the most famous — comes from what he saw and survived. And he did not experience any sort of shifting away towards a proto-peacenik stance after the war, serving as he did for a while still and maintaining friendships with many who continued in the service for decades to come.
When it comes to Bierce vs. Moran for what ‘patriotism’ can mean, the former over the latter every time. If Mr. Moran wishes to be the dupe of statesmen and the tool of conquerors, he is welcome to it. My love for America recognizes this human fault to the full. His does not, or only does so too little and too late. The loss is his.
RSA
I think in the love-of-a-woman-on-a-pedestal version of patriotism, you could replace the woman with George Bush or Dick Cheney (or perhaps both together) and it would make absolutely no difference. That just can’t be healthy.
The Other Steve
Does she bite?
rawshark
Nice of Rick to make my point for me.
John Cole
And when it is the Bush administration, and not the country receiving all the adulation, they also savagely and viciously attack anyone who points out their hot young woman is ACTUALLY A MAN, BABY, and has spent the last 6 years bending them over a table and giving them and their credibility a hot dicking.
rawshark
Punchy
Next time you link to “hot dicking”, please let those of us at work know if it’s work-safe. I’m dying to know what you’ve linked, but scared of the pink-slip that may result when Ivana the Evangelly looks over my cube wall and sees hot nun-on-priest action, or whatever.
Bombadil
I love this place — links to Ambrose Bierce, George Orwell’s essays from commenters, and links to “hot dicking” on YouTube from our host.
Something for everyone, a comedy tonight!
Fe E
Part of me misses Darrell, and I also wonder what happened to Mac Buckets and Al “Brevity” Maviva.
Not enought to go look for them by any means–but I’m kinda curious….
John S.
I think you can find a number of our old ‘righties’ hanging out in the only slums that will tolerate their presence these days, i.e. Protein Wisdom, Hot Air, etc.
Tsulagi
Yes, but a dicking welcomed by patriots. With lapel pin momentos sported by grateful recipients.
That youtube was funny.
Fe E
I kind of suspected as much, but think the price may be too high (y’know, actually wading throught that bullshit).
Jimmmmm
http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blpic-moran.htm
Evilbeard
I’m pretty sure at least one of them is still around as Lampchop.
Jake
I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
But there’s no way I’m clicking on that link.
Pooh
John, seriously, I still can’t believe you think you were correct in referring to “the Jane Hamshers of the left” when the group to which you were referring did not include the actual Jane Hamsher. Wouldn’t it just have been easier to say “ok, sorry Jane, you didn’t actually say that. But in my book, you’re still an asshole?”
And less seriously, it amuses me to no end how worked up that incident still makes you.
Bubblegum Tate
Well, only by something as awesome as the “We Put the Spring in Springfield” song that saved the burlesque house.
stickler
Wait. Let’s go back to the beginning here. Rick Moran tells John Cole to “get stuffed,” on John Cole’s blog? While anyone seeking to explore the intricacies of debate on Moran’s blog finds … no comments allowed.
That wallows in lameness.
stickler
Sorry. I forgot the video link.
That wallows in lameness.
whippoorwill
Not me, In fact I love it, God help me, I love it so. Without verbal exorcises which I like to call rants, there would be no wingnuts to rhetorically grate and add to my Cheese-eating-Surrender Monkey salad.
JC
Re: the Jane Hamsher flareup.
John is exactly right – DougJ, and a lot of others, kept me personally busting a gut for at least an hour. I came back and read some of DougJ’s zingers…the back and forth was amazing. Some of the follow up Open Threads kept it going, for awhile.
I was chuckling for a couple of weeks, I swear…