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You are here: Home / I Would Ask In The Comments

I Would Ask In The Comments

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Rick Moran:

In the comments to this post at Balloon Juice where my integrity was called into question, some ignorant commenter (who didn’t bother to read what I had written about the Obama flap) said that those on the right who consider themselves patriotic are, in fact, nationalists instead.

I’d ask him in the comments where I questioned his integrity in this post, but he doesn’t have any (comments, that is). I guess it must have been right after I said “I like Rick Moran.”

Reader Interactions

49Comments

  2. 2.

    The Other Andrew

    I await the day when we get “A xenophobe and proud of it!”, “Pro-torture and proud of it!”, etc.

  3. 3.

    John Cole

    If you want an apology for me pointing out that you have a tendency to say things I agree regarding the Republicans, then a few days later freaking out about something inconsequential (and generally fabricated out of nothing) about Democrats, and then documenting an example of you doing JUST THAT, it isn’t going to happen.

    Still not sure how that questions your integrity, though. A demonstration of foolishness, of course. Integrity, no. Just because it wasn’t a “love letter” does not mean I questioned your integrity, because I didn’t. I remember what side you were on during the torture debates.

  4. 4.

    Bombadil

    Probably was referring to this:

    rawshark Says:

    Why is it the de facto position on the left that those who reveal outward manifestations of patriotism are, in fact, hypocrites or worse, fakes? What psychic awareness do they possess that the rest of us don’t,

    Because it’s not patiortism, it’s nationalism and nationalism is irrational country-fan-boy craziness. Maybe when Moran was ‘in books’ he should have read some Orwell.

    Nationalism; My country, right or wrong.

    Patriotism; My country, right or wrong, if right, to be kept right, if wrong, to be put right.

    inarticulately stated as always
    jg

    October 5th, 2007 at 12:15 pm

    I think rawshark nailed it perfectly. Granted, he misspelled “patriotism”, but then Rick keeps insisting on misspelling his name as “Moran”.

  5. 5.

    Punchy

    I smell a brew ha-ha forming the likes of which BJ hasn’t seen since Jane “the hamster” Hamsher can in here guns ablazin’, most likely for something stupid Cole said, being that it was The Old Pompous Cole back then.

  6. 6.

    John S.

    Nationalist and proud of it, eh?

    I don’t want to jump the shark and go all Godwin here, but history tells us that there is something unhealthy about people identifying as nationalists. Particularly when the recipe is right-wing + authoritarian + nationalism. Quite frankly, it all smacks of fascism, especially when folks like Moran would agree with the statement:

    Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State.

    Which happened to be Mussolini’s slogan.

  7. 7.

    Elvis Elvisberg

    The lefties hate it when I engage in these little verbal exercises because they believe such archaic concepts as “meaning” and “intent” belong in Derrida’s grave.

    It’s true, hardly a day goes by without Matt Yglesias, Ezra Klein, and Atrios quoting Derrida at length.

    And man, am I tired of Hillary Clinton’s constant Foucoult allusions, and Barack Obama’s fawning Helene Cixous quotations.

    I am simply saying that [“those on the right who have a ‘my country right or wrong’ attitude”] is a small minority of Americans (whose numbers are blown all of out proportion thanks to the internet). For the left to paint all conservatives and all Americans who express their love of country in a more demonstrable fashion than liberals as xenophobes and simple minded, brainwashed automatons is outrageously arrogant.

    Hypocrisy, thy name is Rick “Get a Brain” Moran.

    And your fellow travelers aren’t nationalist, they’re tribalists. Nationalists don’t rush out to buy books calling half of their countrymen traitors.

  8. 8.

    mantooth

    I’m glad Moran has this outlet. Otherwise he might be out there actually accomplishing something.

    “You fight them in Iraq, I’ll fight them here… on the internet!”

    God Bless you and your important work.

  9. 9.

    John S.

    And your fellow travelers aren’t nationalist, they’re tribalists. Nationalists don’t rush out to buy books calling half of their countrymen traitors.

    Well, one of the defining traits of nationalism is identifying an enemy/threat to the nation and railing against them/it. That enemy generally exists outside the nation, but obviously these neo-nationalists also dwell on the enemy ‘within’.

    But I think that’s just semantics.

  10. 10.

    lee

    To: Rick Moran
    Re: “Integrity”
    You keep using this word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

    :)

  11. 11.

    Zifnab

    I think I know where Rick is coming from. I’m not, personally, a Nationals fan myself, but if they got their pitching together, I think they’d have some room to really shoot for the post-season. Also, they need to stop getting their best players injured.

    But you can’t just stop being a National because they’ve had a tough few seasons.

  12. 12.

    Bombadil

    But you can’t just stop being a National because they’ve had a tough few seasons.

    True, it’s much easier being a Patriot fan. And what with all that surreptitious eavesdropping on the opponents, I would think the right-wingers would embrace being a Patriot fan.

  14. 14.

    John Cole

    What I said was “The Jane Hamshers of the left” in a comments section of a post to refer to the grenade chuckers on the left (something Jane is proud of being, and I would argue we need more of right now to balance things out):

    But the charges of racism are vile and disgusting and should be dropped. It is so typical- this is what the lunatic fringe of the left always does. For example, last summer- there are a million things going wrong with American policy in Iraq, and the Jane Hamshers of the left* spend a month accusing the soldiers of being war criminals for using WP weapons.

    By spending so much time acusing Ben falsely of racism, they have given him the cover he needs- he can now spend all his time addressing the racism charges, which he can defend, rather than addressing the plagiarism issue, which looks a lot tougher to defend.

    And she freaked out because she had never actually said what I used the phrase the “Jane Hamsher’s of the left” to refer to. She then came in, and over the course of about 10 minutes FREAKED THE FUCK OUT. 1:38 pm:

    You better be able to back that up because I will be over here every fucking day until you do (and you can’t, because I never wrote about white phosphorous weapons even once).

    Do we understand each other?

    1:41 PM:

    While you’re at it, back up that one too. I want to see where I attributed something not written by Ben TO Ben.

    Unless, of course, you’re talking about something he plagiarised. Did he steal more than we know?

    1:46 PM:

    Waiting…come on, you hack, where’s your proof? I’m waiting…

    1:48 PM:

    You pulled the “white phosphorous” claim out of your article but you posted no correction and it does not let your readers know that you were wrong and you smeared me.

    Come on, you fucking hack, show your proof or admit you were wrong.

    I had made the terrible mistake of not being near the computer for a half hour.

    At any rate, several of the people razzed me here for it for a while, and I still think it was stupid. If I were to say ‘The Rick Moran’s of the right” to refer to people who were disgusted with Republicans but who always managed to get worked up over the Democrats being worse, no one would flinch.

    Since then, I have linked to Jane cautiously when I agree with her, but still think can be a crazy person.

  15. 15.

    Elvis Elvisberg

    Zifnab– you’re probably right about nationalism and tribalism.

    You’re dead wrong about the Nationals, though. No team with Dmitri Young flopping around in the outfield until 2009 is going to contend for the playoffs, even in the JV NL. And please, Bombadil, there’s no comparing the Patriots to the Bush administration. There’s no cronyism to be found in that organization.

    More fun from the Nut House:

    Think of the right’s love of country as that of a young an old man for a hot young woman page.

    Fixed.

  17. 17.

    Bombadil

    That whole JHotL episode was exciting. Dozens of comments, John jumping in to defend himself as best he could, foul language all around, tempers flaring, snark erupting everywhere.

    Odd thing, though — if I recall correctly, John never shut off the comments and showed no fear of his audience’s reactions. What’s that called again? Oh, yeah — integrity. He could have shut off comments, but that would be cowardly, wouldn’t it?

  18. 18.

    rawshark

    Here’s the one you really need to read Rick. It should keep you frm throwing around Websters dictionary references like they prove your point.

  19. 19.

    RSA

    I actually find this pretty insightful of Rick:

    I think it is apparent that some on the right love America in a different way than some on the left. Think of the right’s love of country as that of a young man for a hot young woman. The passion of such love brooks no criticism and in their eyes, the woman can do nothing wrong. They place the woman on a pedestal and fail to see any flaws in her beauty, only perfection.

    On the other hand, love of country by many liberals is more intellectualized – perhaps the kind of love we might feel for a wife of many years. The white hot passion may be gone and her flaws might drive you up a wall at times. And it is difficult not to dwell on her imperfections But there is still a deep, abiding affection that allows you to love her despite the many blemishes and defects they see.

    It captures most of my view of the difference, at least.

  20. 20.

    Bombadil

    I actually find this pretty insightful of Rick:

    I think it is apparent that some on the right love America in a different way than some on the left. Think of the right’s love of country as that of a young man for a hot young woman. The passion of such love brooks no criticism and in their eyes, the woman can do nothing wrong. They place the woman on a pedestal and fail to see any flaws in her beauty, only perfection.

    On the other hand, love of country by many liberals is more intellectualized – perhaps the kind of love we might feel for a wife of many years. The white hot passion may be gone and her flaws might drive you up a wall at times. And it is difficult not to dwell on her imperfections But there is still a deep, abiding affection that allows you to love her despite the many blemishes and defects they see.

    It captures most of my view of the difference, at least.

    Which one do you think describes the healthy relationship?

  21. 21.

    bs23

    not to start a “yeah! comments!” love-fest, but the comments here are half the reason i lurk! the other half being periodic insights into floor cleaning / pet care / etc. seriously though, i don’t bother reading sullivan anymore, for instance, because his huge ego precludes having a comments section. he’s always going on and on about msm doesn’t “get” blogs, but…

  22. 22.

    neil

    Sounds like you accused Rick of being predictable and formulaic. If he thinks that’s challenging his integrity, what is he doing writing about partisan politics?

  23. 23.

    John Cole

    That whole JHotL episode was exciting. Dozens of comments, John jumping in to defend himself as best he could, foul language all around, tempers flaring, snark erupting everywhere.

    That was the high water mark for Doug J snark. Those were good times. I think he is now off to greener pastures.

    And if you scroll down to the end of the comments (there were 600+ of them) Justin Slotman had my back.

    A lot of the people giving me a hard time were just doing it to give me a hard time- and let’s face it, I was (and still am) an asshole, even though the point of the initial post was to defend someone against charges of racism that were unfair. I usually get in the most “trouble” defending people, whether it be that scumbag Bill Bennett or Dick Durbin or Ben Domenech or Kos or whoever. Never figured out why, but I guess people don’t like their lynch mobs stopped.

  24. 24.

    capelza

    Bombadil Says:
    That whole JHotL episode was exciting. Dozens of comments, John jumping in to defend himself as best he could, foul language all around, tempers flaring, snark erupting everywhere.

    Odd thing, though—if I recall correctly, John never shut off the comments and showed no fear of his audience’s reactions. What’s that called again? Oh, yeah—integrity. He could have shut off comments, but that would be cowardly, wouldn’t it?

    I loved that! It was great. Don’t forget, too, that Cole/Tim are quick to ban either.

  26. 26.

    Focality

    Why doesn’t Rick allow comments to his post?

    Funny, since in his post he claims conservatives will take each other to task over questionable behavior (even allowing each other to question American actions/motives in the Middle East, i.e., Iraq. GASP!), but liberals do not (“Don’t tase me, bro!”).

    Must be a fascist.

  27. 27.

    Punchy

    She then came in, and over the course of about 10 minutes FREAKED THE FUCK OUT

    This seems to be a common behavior of hers. She’s like the female Mike Tyson.

  28. 28.

    The Other Steve

    I’d ask him in the comments where I questioned his integrity in this post, but he doesn’t have any (comments, that is).

    I think it was when you said:

    You’re a fucking liar.

    Hey! Wait a minute!

    BTW, I must take a moment here to say that I think it’s rather harsh for Rick Moran to call John Cole a fucking liar. I think the word ‘liar’ is just rather harsh. Cole didn’t really lie. He just told what he knew given the best intelligence known at the time. There was nothing intentional there, Cole had the best of intentions the whole time. So calling him a fucking liar just comes off as a bit shrill.

    Perhaps the real problem is Moran suffers from John Cole Derangement Syndrome, which is why he can’t appreciate that Cole argued in good faith and meant well. Clearly though we can’t have any reasonable debate, while Rick Moran continues to throw the liar word around.

  29. 29.

    Ned Raggett

    In reading Rick’s post there, I noticed this:

    I hate to disabuse my lefty friends of this notion that patriotism can only be defined as the last refuge of scoundrels but the kind of nationalism expressed by most on the right is in fact healthy and sincere form of patriotism.

    This made me think of a great line from that truly great American, Ambrose Bierce:

    PATRIOTISM, n.
    Combustible rubbish read to the torch of any one ambitious to illuminate his name.

    In Dr. Johnson’s famous dictionary patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer I beg to submit that it is the first.

    Right before it is this one:

    PATRIOT, n.
    One to whom the interests of a part seem superior to those of the whole. The dupe of statesmen and the tool of conquerors.

    Now, Mr. Moran may see this as evidence of my evil leftist nature when it comes to patriotism, and yet I note that Bierce, while not a perfect person in my view — many biases and views of his are of their time — has not only considered an essential truth but went through the best test of it.

    Let us not forget that he was a Civil War veteran decorated with honors, and fought in a conflict more truly vital to the existence of the nation, however we want to consider it, than the current conflict, paranoia aside. The excellence of his stories and essays on that period — “An Occurence at Owl Creek Bridge” being merely the most famous — comes from what he saw and survived. And he did not experience any sort of shifting away towards a proto-peacenik stance after the war, serving as he did for a while still and maintaining friendships with many who continued in the service for decades to come.

    When it comes to Bierce vs. Moran for what ‘patriotism’ can mean, the former over the latter every time. If Mr. Moran wishes to be the dupe of statesmen and the tool of conquerors, he is welcome to it. My love for America recognizes this human fault to the full. His does not, or only does so too little and too late. The loss is his.

  30. 30.

    RSA

    Which one do you think describes the healthy relationship?

    I think in the love-of-a-woman-on-a-pedestal version of patriotism, you could replace the woman with George Bush or Dick Cheney (or perhaps both together) and it would make absolutely no difference. That just can’t be healthy.

  32. 32.

    rawshark

    Think of the right’s love of country as that of a young man for a hot young woman. The passion of such love brooks no criticism and in their eyes, the woman can do nothing wrong. They place the woman on a pedestal and fail to see any flaws in her beauty, only perfection.

    Nice of Rick to make my point for me.

  33. 33.

    John Cole

    Think of the right’s love of country as that of a young man for a hot young woman. The passion of such love brooks no criticism and in their eyes, the woman can do nothing wrong. They place the woman on a pedestal and fail to see any flaws in her beauty, only perfection.

    And when it is the Bush administration, and not the country receiving all the adulation, they also savagely and viciously attack anyone who points out their hot young woman is ACTUALLY A MAN, BABY, and has spent the last 6 years bending them over a table and giving them and their credibility a hot dicking.

  34. 34.

    rawshark

    Focality Says:

    Why doesn’t Rick allow comments to his post?

    Funny, since in his post he claims conservatives will take each other to task over questionable behavior (even allowing each other to question American actions/motives in the Middle East, i.e., Iraq. GASP!), but liberals do not (“Don’t tase me, bro!”).

    Must be a fascist.

    As nearly as possible, no nationalist ever thinks, talks, or writes about anything except the superiority of his own power unit. It is difficult if not impossible for any nationalist to conceal his allegiance. The smallest slur upon his own unit, or any implied praise of a rival organization, fills him with uneasiness which he can relieve only by making some sharp retort. If the chosen unit is an actual country, such as Ireland or India, he will generally claim superiority for it not only in military power and political virtue, but in art, literature, sport, structure of the language, the physical beauty of the inhabitants, and perhaps even in climate, scenery and cooking. He will show great sensitiveness about such things as the correct display of flags, relative size of headlines and the order in which different countries are named.

  35. 35.

    Punchy

    has spent the last 6 years bending them over a table and giving them and their credibility a hot dicking.

    Next time you link to “hot dicking”, please let those of us at work know if it’s work-safe. I’m dying to know what you’ve linked, but scared of the pink-slip that may result when Ivana the Evangelly looks over my cube wall and sees hot nun-on-priest action, or whatever.

  36. 36.

    Bombadil

    I love this place — links to Ambrose Bierce, George Orwell’s essays from commenters, and links to “hot dicking” on YouTube from our host.

    Something for everyone, a comedy tonight!

  37. 37.

    Fe E

    Darrell Says:

    The right (of which John Cole is not a member) really has gotten to a point where any criticism of a Republican is “left-wing partisanship”,

    Just to be clear you lying sack of shit, John Cole is not complaining about just “any” criticism of a Republican, he is specifically complaining about dishonest racist smears on a Republican, a hateful smear the left uses too often

    Part of me misses Darrell, and I also wonder what happened to Mac Buckets and Al “Brevity” Maviva.

    Not enought to go look for them by any means–but I’m kinda curious….

  38. 38.

    John S.

    Part of me misses Darrell, and I also wonder what happened to Mac Buckets and Al “Brevity” Maviva.

    I think you can find a number of our old ‘righties’ hanging out in the only slums that will tolerate their presence these days, i.e. Protein Wisdom, Hot Air, etc.

  39. 39.

    Tsulagi

    has spent the last 6 years bending them over a table and giving them and their credibility a hot dicking.

    Yes, but a dicking welcomed by patriots. With lapel pin momentos sported by grateful recipients.

    That youtube was funny.

  40. 40.

    Fe E

    I think you can find a number of our old ‘righties’ hanging out in the only slums that will tolerate their presence these days, i.e. Protein Wisdom, Hot Air, etc.

    I kind of suspected as much, but think the price may be too high (y’know, actually wading throught that bullshit).

  42. 42.

    Evilbeard

    Part of me misses Darrell, and I also wonder what happened to Mac Buckets and Al “Brevity” Maviva.

    Not enought to go look for them by any means—but I’m kinda curious….

    I’m pretty sure at least one of them is still around as Lampchop.

  43. 43.

    Jake

    has spent the last 6 years bending them over a table and giving them and their credibility a hot dicking.

    I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

    But there’s no way I’m clicking on that link.

  44. 44.

    Pooh

    John, seriously, I still can’t believe you think you were correct in referring to “the Jane Hamshers of the left” when the group to which you were referring did not include the actual Jane Hamsher. Wouldn’t it just have been easier to say “ok, sorry Jane, you didn’t actually say that. But in my book, you’re still an asshole?”

    And less seriously, it amuses me to no end how worked up that incident still makes you.

  45. 45.

    Bubblegum Tate

    Never figured out why, but I guess people don’t like their lynch mobs stopped.

    Well, only by something as awesome as the “We Put the Spring in Springfield” song that saved the burlesque house.

  46. 46.

    stickler

    Wait. Let’s go back to the beginning here. Rick Moran tells John Cole to “get stuffed,” on John Cole’s blog? While anyone seeking to explore the intricacies of debate on Moran’s blog finds … no comments allowed.

    That wallows in lameness.

  48. 48.

    whippoorwill

    The lefties hate it when I engage in these little verbal exercises because they believe such archaic concepts as “meaning” and “intent” belong in Derrida’s grave.

    Not me, In fact I love it, God help me, I love it so. Without verbal exorcises which I like to call rants, there would be no wingnuts to rhetorically grate and add to my Cheese-eating-Surrender Monkey salad.

  49. 49.

    JC

    Re: the Jane Hamsher flareup.

    John is exactly right – DougJ, and a lot of others, kept me personally busting a gut for at least an hour. I came back and read some of DougJ’s zingers…the back and forth was amazing. Some of the follow up Open Threads kept it going, for awhile.

    I was chuckling for a couple of weeks, I swear…

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