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Frank Rich will have some people talking.
Bonus points to the reader who can find someone arguing Rich is wrong because “we are at a time of war and thus, special circumstances dictate what happens,” and thus completely miss Rich’s point. My money is on Red State. But then again, that is usually a safe bet.
Comments are closed.
Can we put the inmates back in the asylum?
There is some nuance necessary, I think, but this Frank Rich editorial is pitch perfect on the situation in Pakistan and how it too closely mirrors the United States. There’s too much goodness to excerpt any particular part as the…
Walker
Daaaaaamn. That’s got to hurt.
ding7777
Bush may not jail lawyers en masse but he does jail them.
Lynne Stewart and Brandon Mayfield come to mind
Wilfred
Mukasey successfully had William Kunstler removed as defense attorney in the first WTC case, after Kunstler questioned the appropriateness of having an Orthodox Jew and avowed Zionist sitting in judgment of Muslims accused of terrorism. Now he’s the Attorney General and who, pray tell, are going to be the victims of water-boarding.
Anybody who gives a shit about church-state separation, the Patriot Act, and civil liberties, should take a look at this article and ask themselves why none of it was mentioned:
http://www.villagevoice.com/blogs/bushbeat/archive/2007/09/what_exactly_ma.php
RSA
Goddamned Democratic enablers. I’m getting tired of supporting a party because “They’re better than the Republicans,” as much as I believe that’s true.
On the Musharraf situation: I was listening to one of his spokesmen on NPR a few nights ago, and he was getting a lot of mileage out of comparisons to the U.S. tightening security after 9/11. Jesus.
Elvis Elvisberg
“Suspect Device,” an old Stiff Little Fingers song, has the line, “they take away our freedom in the name of liberty.”
It’s different in the US today. They take away our liberty in the name of freedom.
It’s not just Pakistan citing the US, of course. Zimbabwe did it too.
City on a hill.
ImJohnGalt
Wow, that’s some seriously good editorial. Is Frank Rich the Luther of our time? Where’s the nearest church door? This thing needs to be nailed up somewhere.
ThymeZone
While I generally don’t buy the “Dems caved” theme, on this one, I have to agree. Pathetic performance.
jake
Since this is an OT
Hey kids, Happy Veterans Day! Today’s the day we remember all of the men and women who’ve fought to protect your freedoms…
OK, that’s enough. ‘Cos now, it’s time to play Tweak The Constitution!
I bet you can’t guess which long-established right we’re going to stick in the blender today!
Well, I’ll give you a hint. It’s something the world had never seen BeFORE
Cinderella Ferret
Orwell comes to mind every time someone mentions or writes about the former Cheerleader, his gang of war criminals, and the appeasers in the Democratic Leadership. On this Veteran’s Day we dishonor all veteran’s and their service if we allow the “leadership” of this country to continue down this Road to Perdition. Disgrace and disaster in a time of Fear blend a cocktail that aids the rise of a Fascist State.
Honor all Vets by voting for candidates who want to restore the 4th Amendment, habeas corpus and end the Imperial Presidency forever. The next President must promise to restore these important principles.
ThymeZone
Well Jakester, IANAL, and thank Dog for that, but isn’t privacy one of the murkier areas of the law?
Is anonymity an essential part of privacy, and if it isn’t, then what properties of privacy are in fact essential?
And more to the point, how does the law operate in this murky brew?
Isn’t it true that technology and transportable information have exposed real weaknesses in the area of privacy law, and at the same time, created the need for more clarity in the law in a context where there never has been much clarity to begin with?
And finally, doesn’t the WarrenTerra force us to confront and clear up this murky mess? Sort of?
Chris Johnson
Too right, Mr. Rich.
ATS
Here, by far, is most compelling story this AM:
“SANTIAGO, Chile: King Juan Carlos of Spain told the Venezuelan President, Hugo Chavez, to “just shut up”, bringing an Ibero-American summit to end in spectacular fashion.
“Spain’s monarch stormed out just before the scheduled end of the forum on Saturday, furious at Mr Chavez’s description of his former prime minister as a “fascist” and for launching a wide-ranging tirade that could not be stopped.
The dispute was a dramatic finale for the 17th meeting of the heads of state and government of Spain, Portugal and Andorra, and the Spanish and Portuguese-speaking countries of Latin America.
“The notoriously hotheaded Mr Chavez earnt the ire of the Spanish delegation when he arrived on Friday. His description of Spain’s former conservative prime minister Jose Maria Aznar as a “fascist” prompted the current Prime Minister, Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, to ask Mr Chavez to show more “respect”.
“But Mr Chavez forged on, and on Saturday repeated the contentious f-word in relation to Mr Aznar, adding: “A fascist isn’t human, a snake is more human than a fascist.” An irate King Juan Carlos then stepped in, telling Mr Chavez: “Why don’t you just shut up?”
—Agence France Press
KC
I was extrememly happy to read that Rich column this morning. By comparing the Pakistani situation to ours, he said what needed to be said. It seems like plenty of “democracies” are using the language of national security to slowly eat away at what they are supposedly trying to preserve–freedom and democracy. To that end, I’m really getting tired of listening to Dems give excuses for why they cave all the time. It’s as if nothing else is on the line except campaign contributions, their majorities, and frankly, a phony-ass “bi-partisan” reputation.
capelza
Of all the kings in the world…Juan Carlos has my respect. Hand picked by Franco, he then turned the tables…I remember that speech on television when the coup attempt happened 1981.
Chavez really stepped in it, showing a real lack of understanding of recent Spanish history (Franco forward.)
Jay C
@ ATS:
Hugo Chavez is lucky – really lucky – that Venezuela doesn’t still belong to Spain: a couple of centuries ago Hugo’s outburst would have earned him a short trip to a deep dungeon: and a few -err, “enhanced” interrogation sessions with the Inquisition.
RSA
Actually, we have, but in a different guise. Remember back in the ’80s, when Reagan instituted a policy by which federal employees would be subject to drug testing? If I remember correctly, this was challenged in court by a bunch of senior Justice Department employees and it was eventually determined that the policy was unconstitutional.
This total information awareness snooping makes me realize that former Cold Warriors are not nostalgic for the good old days just to have a big enemy to face; they like the idea of an American-style Stasi.
Elvis Elvisberg
Wow, that’s awesome, ATS. Right-wingers love to say that the American left loves Castro and Chavez, but I’ve never seen it. As far as I know, everyone thinks they’re autocratic blowhards.
And what capelza said.
I wish I knew more about what happened in Spain in the 1970s, but it sure seems to me that King Juan Carlos acted selflessly for Spain by pushing it towards democracy.
The Other Steve
So last night a buddy and I went to see “No country for old men”, the new Coen brothers flick. It’s in limited release until the 21st, so only playing at one theatre. It was packed for the 7pm show.
I’m not sure what to think about it. I don’t want to give any spoilers, but the ending was a tremendous letdown.
It appears to be a movie about how life just happens, and you don’t have as much control as you think you have. This is evidenced by the very first scene where a deputy talks to his boss on the phone and says something like “I’m in control here.” only to be dead 30 seconds later. And the killer Javier Bardem at several points flips a coin to decide whether or not to kill bystanders. Even Tommy Lee Jones character gives a anecdote at one point while having coffee about a man trying to kill a steer and not having control.
The story was good, the acting was outstanding. I did like it. But I felt the ending was sudden, abrupt and left me looking for answers.
And perhaps that was the point.
jcricket
I don’t get it either. Dems can stand up, with impunity, to the Lame Duck Deciderer-in-Chief these days. They’ve just so internalized (my guess) the whole “don’t want to appear soft” thing that they buy the Republican framing of it.
You know what makes you appear soft? Waffling and being soft.
You know what makes you appear strong? Being strong. Standing up for what you believe in. Argue that the Republicans want to legalize torture. Argue it forcefully, even if you go down in defeat people will respect it.
C’mon, the Republicans are willing to fight tooth and nail so hedge fund managers can keep their ridiculous tax loophole – and that makes them seem to have the “courage of their convictions”. So surely if the Dems forcefully laid out the case that the whole Republican administration is ruining America’s moral standing the American public would have an even better reaction.
Shorter me: Dems need to stop buying into the Republican “concern troll” framing of events.
jake
You could say that about any area of the law and saying “That’s an interesting and complicated legal question, we’ll study it and let you know what we find out,” is certainly in vogue these days, but privacy rights are straight forward. Does a person have a reasonable expectation that X won’t be available for public (that includes the government) scrutiny? The telecomms and the government aren’t arguing that in regards to your phone records, the answer is No. They’re arguing that the TCs shouldn’t get in trouble for giving that information to the government because they know any jury would say the answer is Yes.
But let’s forget about your telecom provider giving your comm records to the FBI for a minute and talk about your medical records. The CDC does collect information about people in the form of mortality, disease/injury rates. What it does not collect (or it shouldn’t collect) is the information that would tell it who. Therefore, if I go to the doctor with a case of the clap, the CDC will know that someone had a case of the clap but it will not know who, and the connection of who with what or the ability to connect who with what is, as with your TC records, the important part.
Is it reasonable for me to expect that information about my little problem won’t be handled in a way that allows anyone to know I had a little problem? Sure, and the government agrees so far as my medical records go. For now at least. I’m sure there’s an argument out there that if I come into an ER with serious burns, the FBI should get to know about it because I might have been playing with my Build Your Own HEX kit.
But if you can agree that medical records should be handled in a way that it is impossible for anyone but the providers treating the patient to tell who has what (I’m going to assume you do), then you can’t say that other information that we reasonably expect to be private is somehow different. There was no murkiness until this Administration started blowing smoke. We have a system that allows the government to get private information: Subpoenas, that is a challenge that it has to meet to show that it is absolutely vital that they violate a person’s 4th Am rights. What the Admin wants to do is remove the challenge and replace it with “Trust me.” Why? The WarrenTerra. Why does the WarrenTerra weaken a citizens’ Right to Privacy? Because they say so.
No thanks.
jcricket
Speeaking of Open threads, our wonderful free market healthcare system beats Latvia in infant deaths! Woot. U-S-A! U-S-A!
Redhand
As a former conservative Republican, somewhat like John, there was a time when I despised Frank Rich, Teddy Kennedy and all their ilk. Now I find myself cheering these guys from the bleachers and active considering formally changing my party affiliation to Democrat.
The above quote from Frank Rich is what I worry about more than anything. A-holes like Mitt Romney and Rudi Giuliani really are “falling over each other to expand Gitmo, see who can promise the most torture and abridge the largest number of constitutional rights.” It’s not an exaggeration or figment of “left wing moonbat hysteria.” It’s the real deal if you ask me.
The one thing that I think is essential to undo some of the damage done by this evil Administration is something akin to the kind of openness we’ve seen in South Africa and Argentina to the illegal excesses and human rights violations of past regimes there. Only after we’ve turned over all the rocks, and implemented strong reforms against what we find there, can we have hope that no presidency like this one will exist again. I would like to see our next President institute some kind of Constitutional Rights Commission, like the 9/11 Commission, that will ruthlessly expose the many illegalities perpetrated by Bush, Cheney, Addington, Yoo, . . . . the list goes on and on. Then we need real corrective legisation to cut the Imperial Presidency down to size again.
I expect some mockery for naivety in suggesting this, but really what other way is there?
Libby Spencer
Getting back to the original question, I think Cretinden beat RS to the punchline.
Rudi
The Critter beats out Redstate, we can all be proud of NRO,the Critter and waterboarding.
Let’s go out and shoot some long haired smelly hippies on choppers. Maybe even attack carpet munchers pimping Coors for there blasphemous Leviicus ways.
ThymeZone
Hmm, can’t agree with that. Don’t you think that the modern privacy murkiness really reached murky murksomeness with Roe V Wade?
When I was in high school, I remember our government teachers talking a lot about things like “unreasonable search and seizure.” Being young and impressionable, it didn’t occur to me then that if they passed a law saying that the authorities could search and seize, then my supposed “privacy” was out the window. That’s because the Constitution doesn’t mention privacy, it’s something we have imagined is protected, even though we haven’t really defined what it is. If privacy rests on interpretation of what “reasonable” means, then ….. well, I invite you watch any of GWB’s press conferences and try to figure out how a government run by such people is going to protect reasonableness. Especially in the face of WarrenTerra and exploding technology.
I don’t see how we get anything like privacy without amending the Constitution to define what it is.
I’ll post this same material over to John’s new privacy thread, we should probably pick it up there.
VidaLoca
It’s worse than that. They “buy the Republican framing” all right but it doesn’t have to do with internalizing anything. What it comes down to is they ideologically don’t give a rip about deconstructing the Constitution and erecting the new norms of relationship between the state and the people that Cheney, Addington, Gonzalez, Yoo and the Decider have brought us.
In other words the Democrats don’t object because they fundamentally don’t object. As party, as a group, in general they are essentially on board with this stuff and there is no reason to expect that that will change once we elect them. Sure there are exceptions to this rule: Feingold will stand against it pretty often, and Dodd went out on a limb on the Mukasey nomination. All but two of the other Democrats on the Judiciary Committee voted against Mukasey, even! All but two! But two was enough: now the official policy of the Justice Dept. is we can’t figure out if controlled drowning of a person constitutes torture. And so it goes: the Constitution, chewed to bits, piecemeal.
And please, let’s not have any talk about “not having enough votes”, not this time. They had the votes and they squandered them. They are pissing away the Republic, piecemeal.
So frikking true. So frikking obvious: stand and fight; even if you lose people see your party as a party that fights; next time you build your support and one day you’ll win. That’s how you build a movement — but if these Democratic barons were to build a movement that then went on to topple them from their sinecures, where would they be?
Compromise is always an acceptable course if you have no real desire to pursue the alternative.
The only reason — and it’s an absolutely decisive reason, it’s such a huge reason that you don’t need any other reasons — to vote for these clowns is that while they can’t be expected to do much to fix the damage which they have colluded in creating, at least they don’t show much active desire to make it worse. We may, if we’re very smart and very lucky, have enough time under their administration to build organizations less riven with traitors (such as Lieberman, Feinstein, Schumer and the rest) and less acquiescent to compromise, that will force them to do the right thing. Or we may not, in which care we are well and truly screwed. The alternative is that the Republicans will quickly move their beta-test of fascism on to the next phase.
crayz
I really wonder some days why people aren’t rioting in the streets. Get a few million people marching on DC, and shut the city down for a week
Dave_Violence
Eh, it’s Frank Rich. I no like him.
Um, no. At least not in New York City, where lawyers are all over the place, free from police harassment. I guess that hotbeds of Federal crackdowns on American freedoms, places like, er…, where? Suburban Washington, D.C.? Ahh, that would explain those “Impeach” placards on the lawns of Potomac, Maryland I saw a few weeks ago…
I suppose I generally see Rich’s points, since I read the NYT and his columns (once again, since it’s for free), but it’s still really difficult for me to take him seriously as the alternative universe U.S.A. he believes currently exists wouldn’t allow him to publish, let alone walk the streets freely, or even breath.
Frank Rich is and always has been a rabid anti-gunner, which means he and his ilk are far more likely to support a fascist USA than Bush and Co.
jcricket
Note the near lock-step Republican unity in objecting to the AMT patch bill because (horrors) it closes the loophole that allows 50,000 (or less) hedge fund manager types to pay about 1/2 the taxes the rest of us do.
On an issue they could have easily caved on (and no one would care), not a single Republican did. That’s party unity. We need to learn how it works and start using it to our advantage.
We might lose to a filibuster or veto now and then but it sure would highlight the party divisions.
It’s sad that you can go as far back as Will Rogers to see that Democractic party disunity is, apparently, the 1st commandment of the party.
Tsulagi
I just wasted a few minutes reading that. Is that guy blonde? There was absolutely nothing in his response to Rich’s op-ed other than a few random wisps of smoke likely from synapses struggling yet failing to fire.
Rich’s op-ed was dead-on throughout. Yep, 9/11 changed everything. Now we have our reverse Patrick Henrys. Instead of “Give me liberty or give death”, we now have “Take all our liberties to protect me from death” from our self-certified patriot warriors. They’re Republican manly men like that.
Yep, easy matter for Musharraf to play Tard and Tarder in Bush/Cheney for the fools they are. Osama and Zawahiri have done well at it. Just about anyone like Putin too if they care to as it takes no effort. All those guys will remember the Bush admin fondly and miss our horse-hating cowboy.
dslak
Has it occurred to anyone that the reason Democrats don’t curb the Bush administration’s power grabs is that they essentially move in the same circles, and are beholden to the same moneyed interests, as the Republicans?
Notorious P.A.T.
A-holes like Mitt Romney and Rudi Giuliani really are “falling over each other to expand Gitmo, see who can promise the most torture and abridge the largest number of constitutional rights.” It’s not an exaggeration or figment of “left wing moonbat hysteria.”
Mitt Romney: “I want to double Gitmo”
Rudy Giuliani: “I want to be a president like George W Bush”
heywood jablomy
Crittenden is to Frank Rich as mosquito is to windshield.
incontrolados
dslak, I could be one to join you there, but for the local Dems here in Texas — and that goes for the House types on the Dem side from Texas. Currently the meme on the state level here is that DeLay brought DC to Texas and we don’t like that. Things are turning.
On another topic, Althouse is doing her instapundit thing on the term ‘wetback.’ She doesn’t come down on one side or the other, but her commenters do.
In the game of Risk that is the blogosphere — is there truly a way to knock both insty and althouse off their block?
Bruce Moomaw
Redhand: “I would like to see our next President institute some kind of Constitutional Rights Commission, like the 9/11 Commission, that will ruthlessly expose the many illegalities perpetrated by Bush, Cheney, Addington, Yoo, . . . . the list goes on and on. Then we need real corrective legisation to cut the Imperial Presidency down to size again.
“I expect some mockery for naivety in suggesting this, but really what other way is there?”
Naive, my ass. It’s the best proposed solution to the problem I’ve ever heard.
incontrolados
forget the althouse thing for a bit — looks like a bot has taken over comments.
ATS
Why in the world is the left REQUIRED to defend Chavez? His nuttiness does harm to every cause he claims to embrace.
I remember hearing that the Israelis let Arafat live because he was seen as hurting his cause in the balance. I’d bet the radical Palestinians wanted Begin around for similar reasons. Both leaders looked like cartoons. and often acted like it.
By contrast King Juan Carlos is charismatic and much admired. Even an idiot like Chavez must have felt the sting of that rebuke,
AnonE.Mouse
While it’s true that Chavez could benefit by dialing it down a bit,let’s not forget that Aznar is a crony of Bush and Blair whose participation in the invasion of Iraq helped those two sell the idea that an inherently illegal aggressive war was somehow internationally legitimate,that he honored an accused torturer(who also happened to be a former head of Franco’s secret police)with a state medal of merit,and that he attempted to win the election of 1933-I mean 2004-by blaming the Madrid train bombings on the domestic ETA despite considerable evidence that the guilty were actually Islamists motivated by Spanish participation in Bush’s war.
If it walks like a duck…
Redhand
“While it’s true that Chavez could benefit by dialing it down a bit,”
Is this supposed to be ironic understatement, or are you secretly an admirer of left wing fascists? In case you hadn’t noticed, Hugo is an obnoxious blowhard in the braggadocio style of Mussolini. He’s turning Venezuela into another Cuba, which is not a “good thing” in my book.
Xenos
The problem is not whether people can carry guns, it is which people carry guns. Many libertarians seem to not give a damn about liberties except for the freedom to exercise their firearms fetish. All I can read from your silly rationalizations is that you don’t mind fascism so long as you get to be one of the brownshirts.
And freedom to bear sidearms and rifles may have meant something in the eighteenth century – lots of good it did for Branch Davidians.
AnonE.Mouse
Chavez is prone to rhetorical overkill,particularly when it comes to the US,whose shadow lies behind an attempted overthrow of his government in 2002(the same type of US activity that contributed to an authoritarian response in Cuba,which by the way boasts the healthiest and best educated population in Latin America).He’s been re-elected as president by increasingly larger majorities in internationally monitored elections that have been free of the taint of scandal of Florida 2000 or Ohio 2004.
Chavez’ popularity is primarily with the native underclass,who have benefitted the most from the changes he’s instituted,the same changes that have alienated the (mostly) white corporate class(as well as neoliberals at the World Bank,IMF,and in the US),much of whose dislike of Chavez can also be attributed to naked rascism.
If you knew anything about which you spew,you’d be aware that Mussolini referred to his form of government as ‘corporatism’ because of the seamless merging of government and business elements(which more accurately describes Chavez’ North American neighbor).Your somewhat ignorant rant could have been lifted verbatim from one of O’Reilly’s poorly researched and frequently fantasy based ‘Talking Points’.
Redhand
Well, AnonE.Mouse, I see that you’re an unabashed Hugo cheerleader. What’s the party line on his suppression of the independent media, BTW, or is it politically incorrect to mention that?
I note without further comment your glowing references to the Socialist Paradise that is present-day Cuba. I’m sure it would be the wealthiest nation in the Western Hemisphere too, were it not for the evil U.S. trade boycott.
AnonE.Mouse
I believe your “suppression” comment refers to the failure to renew the license of one of the TV stations that aided and abetted the attempted coup in 2002,and which continued broadcasting afterwards(and to this day by cable).Of course,as we all know,any broadcasting outlet that participated in the attempted violent overthrow of our own government would remain in the good graces of whatever administration was in power at the time.
We’ll never know exactly what Cuba was capable of,largely due to American intervention.What we do know is that all of the people of Cuba have their material needs met better than the other(US allied)countries of Latin America,countries we are increasingly attempting to emulate here.
Please proceed with your O’Reilly like ignorance and myth-spreading.
ATS
AnonEMouse said: “While it’s true that Chavez could benefit by dialing it down a bit,”
The understatement of the decade. And then everything AnonEMouse says thereafter argues the opposite.
Hitler didn’t excuse Stalin’s behavior, or the other way around. At best, the context makes the stupidity and brutality more understandible, not forgivable.
As for there being rascialists among Chavez critics, no argument here, but Chavez’s boorishness stands or falls on its own lack of merit.
Re Aznar et al: the fact that David Duke liked Walt & Miersheimer does not negate their arguments. Aznar’s wrongs do not make Chavez right.
The age-old conservative argument is that we shall always have the poor with us because they are by nature undisciplined, lazy and uncivilized. Qualities made manifest by their boorishness.
In just this way, Chavez HURTS his own cause. He is comes across as the Latino equivalent of Krushehev pounding his shoe on the UN lecturn. Instead of the voice of just grievance he is ressentiment incarnate. A Nietzschean paradym.
Rosaynn Carter, of all people, said Reagan made the well-to-do “comfortable
with their prejudices.” Chavez does the same, albeit in a negative way. Who can imagine this guy deserving the finer things in life? He would only pee in the sink.
Chavez is not the mouth for these ears. The King had it right.
AnonE.Mouse
ATS,the “dialing down” comment referred specifically to Chavez’rhetoric,nothing else.Otherwise,he was on solid ground regarding Aznar’s politics.How exactly did I argue the opposite?It was a little hard to understand given the shotgun scatter of your comment.
Part of the reason Chavez comes across (to you) as “the Latino equivalent of Krushenev” is what I concede is his colorful rhetoric,but you also seem to fall for the media villainization (echoing the government) of him in this country,e.g.”pee in the sink” (that’s some over the top rhetoric of your own-I hope you use the toilet while visiting friends and relatives over the holidays,since vulgar turns of words are predictors of bathroom habits).It can’t be long until he’s the latest incarnation of Hitler in public discourse in this country.He’s already Mussolini in Redhand’s fantasies.
ATS
Look, I live in DC and have seen the White House turn onetime friends into Hitler-of-the-month overnight. Noriega for example. What I object to in Chavez is that his oafish buffonery makes it easier for them.
Tidbit: It is instructive to watch the process working in reverse with Abbas and Fatah in Palestine.
Redhand
AnonE.Mouse: your defense of Hugo is laughable. Check out some of these doings in Venezuela, reported by that notorious right-wing propaganda mill, Human Rights Watch. I particularly like his proposal to eliminate the constitutional prohibition against suspension of due process rights “in states of emergency.” If he enjoys such huge popular support, why is this necessary, pray tell?
AnonE.Mouse
Redhand,his huge popular support is easily confirmed by election results.The referendum to reform the constitution of 1999 that will be voted on by the Venezuelan electorate is a mix of progressive and reactionary proposals,including the one you cite,which would have the effect of allowing concentration of power in the executive branch.I’m troubled by any government that allows that concentration,most particularly my own,where it’s achieved with unilateral presidential signing statements.I would certainly hope it’s not a power Chavez would feel it necessary to invoke,for instance in the unlikely event that a small group of corporate,media and military elites,supported by the US,attempting to overthrow the democratically elected government.
It’s an unfortunate fact of life that governments that feel threatened frequently react with authoritarian overreach,using such tactics as Patriot Acts,warrantless wiretapping,torture,wars of aggression,rendition and detention without charges,and designated ‘free speech’ areas at political conventions and presidential appearances,with mass arrest for those who fail to comply.Fortunately,Chavez and the Venezuelan government have avoided such vile behavior.
Redhand
AnonE.Mouse, if you read my posts here with any frequency you’ll see that I agree with you nearly 100% on the Bush Administration and the damage it has done to our democratic institutions. Worst U.S. President in the nearly 60 years I’ve been on the planet.
But, I also think that Chavez is a left-wing totalitarian in the Castro mold and that it’s only a matter of time before he turns Venezuela into a one-party State where “popular support” dictates that he become President for Life. There is no way a man like that will give up power, any more than Fidel has.
AnonE.Mouse
Although I don’t agree,”left-wing totalitarian” is at least a phrase that makes sense,unlike “left-wing fascists”,which,given the corporatist nature of fascism,makes no sense and leaves one to think you get your ‘talking points’ from right wing radio blowhards.
Like I wrote,I’m troubled by some of the over 60 proposals in the December referendum that the Venezuelan people will decide upon.I also agree that Chavez needs to learn some diplomatic style,even though I agree in substance with most of what he says.
I disagree that there’s anything intrinsically totalitarian in Chavez’ nature.One thing that contradicts your description of him is that there wasn’t a more severe backlash after the failed coup attempt in 2002,in which much of the elite Venezuelan media was complicit.Try for a minute to imagine what would happen in this country were rogue elements to take over the White House-wait,let me rephrase that-if an unelected resident were to take over the White House-damn,this is hard-if armed dissidents were to attempt to violently overthrow the government,with Fox News using their franchise to cheer on the coup.We couldn’t build enough Guantanamos fast enough.It’s also worth considering the seige like mentality it effects in a Latin American leader who rightly percieves himself as targeted by the US given our sordid history of interference in that part of the world.
It’s also indisputable that Cuba,despite almost 50 years of American attempts to subvert it’s economy and government,is able to provide a higher standard of living to it’s citizens than American allies in the region.It’s worth asking whether it’s better to be poor in Cuba or in such stalwarts of democracy as Honduras or El Salvador,where the US backed leadership murdered tens of thousands.I’m not a particular cheerleader for either Cuba or Venezuela,as long as criticism of both those states is kept in the proper context. Is Cuba an authoritarian state?Of course.I have no evidence it would have been a Scandanavian style socialist state without American interference.On the other hand,we don’t know that Castro would have exercised the dictatorial power he has without his rational assessment that without it the Cuban revolution would have falled victim to the constant assault of the US.
Baud
You are a busy beaver this morning.
Baud
IOW, the black president really did break their brains.
bjacques
In the woods outside Allentown, bears continue to take dumps
As scary as these far-right lunatics are, the danger of them uniting to take over is nil, because it’s obvious they don’t trust or even like each other very much. Being partly or entirely grifts, they’re competing against each other for the same marks. They’re as socially cohesive as vampires.
NotMax
Smidgen of smile time.
In space no one can hear you … or can they?
:)
Baud
@bjacques:
Same with the major conservative religious groups. Their hatred of liberalism is the only thing that unites them.
Baud
@NotMax:
That’s pretty violent for an ad for beans.
NotMax
‘@Baud.
On the other hand, there’s always sex.
:)
Tony Jay
@bjacques:
The Sovereign Alliance of Newborn and Greater Undead, Incubi and Nosferatu Elites appreciate your lack of belief. Please continue ignoring the scratching at your neighbour’s window.
Baud
@NotMax:
Baud
So the Sinzo Abe assassin was apparently motivated by hate for Moonies because his mom gave them all her money.
FridayNext
But are we positive water is wet?
Baud
@Baud:
Sinzo = Shinzo
WereBear
@Baud: I heard his victim was a moderate politician?
Not that any Q brain makes logical connections unless task-focused… like a homemade firearm.
Jack Canuck
@Tony Jay: I see what you did there. Well played.
Baud
@WereBear:
Abe was to the right in Japan, and had connections to the Moonies apparently.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: You mean his Mom gave away all of his money.
@WereBear: Moderate compared to US Repubs, but right wing for Japan.
Ken
…are tacitly acknowledging that their rights are behind those of white people.
Ken
@Jack Canuck: And “N” is a tricky one to work with, much less twice.
Baud
@Ken:
What’s that saying?
When you’re privileged, equality feels like oppression.
Ken
@Baud: Another old saying* is “If I can’t marry my daughter, I sure as hell don’t want one of them to have that right.”
* I may have just made this up.
Baud
@Ken:
I’m pretty sure the GOP is working on that.
Geo Wilcox
All that distrust is a feature not a bug. It is meant to keep all of the peons (us) fighting each other while the people who rule us (them) scrape up all the cash and power.
Baud
@Geo Wilcox:
Speak for yourself. I fight Nazis because I enjoy it.
OzarkHillbilly
@Ken: AS God intended.
Geminid
@Baud: I’m hoping the politicized evangelicals will fall back into their old doctrinal disputes and be deflected from politics. I glimpsed a ray of hope the other day when a preacher on the local Baptist station concluded his talk with a pitch for his new book, Calvinism: None Dare Call it Heresy. “You go, guy!” I said to the radio.
OzarkHillbilly
Our nearly 40 yo washing machine went on the fritz last week. My wife’s reaction was, “We were gonna have to buy a new one sooner or later.”
I recalled how the last time our repairman worked on it he had commented that unlike the new machines, ours was repairable and told my wife, “Maybe not. We can hope anyway.”
Gary came yesterday and a half hour and $110 later, our machine was working again. Long may it reign.
RevRick
First, we get branded by Billy Joel as a sad Rust Belt city and now this CBS News report about how we’re on the forefront of demographic change that spells T-R-O-U-B-L-E. Ooof.
Meanwhile, over $1 billion has been invested in our downtown and a ton of investing is being done along our Lehigh River waterfront, and we’re getting loud cries from the Hispanic community about displacement and gentrification.
Ironies abound.
Spanky
Alexandra Petrie checks in this morning to let us know what she’s been up to.
The finis:
germy shoemangler
New Deal democrat
Displacement of the ethnic majority by immigrants or other minorities is the most common uniting theme behind the rise of the illiberal right across all of Western countries.
OzarkHillbilly
‘Extinct’ parrots make a flying comeback in Brazil
Brachiator
The three major nations flirting with autocracy are not all “Western. ” The US and the UK are still reeling from the malign influence of their national leaders. And even though Boris Johnson has been dumped, the Tories are still in power and up to no good.
India’s current swerve into Hindu nationalism is a clear repudiation of its constitution and founding principles. And its persecution of journalists is despicable. For example…
Zubair maintains a website dedicated to fighting misinformation, some of which may be planted by the government.
OzarkHillbilly
@Spanky: Congrats, Alexandra.
David ☘The Establishment☘ Koch
@Baud:
Rats. I didn’t have that on my Bingo card.
Brachiator
The protests in Sri Lanka over the collapse of the economy are peaceful but still insane.
Link to BBC
zhena gogolia
@NotMax: Oh, that’s bad.
zhena gogolia
@NotMax: The Czechs!
germy shoemangler
Do Musk and Trump fans overlap? If so they’ll have to pick a side now.
Ksmiami
@germy shoemangler: the Right will eat each other- fanatical movements are lethal even to their diehard followers….
artem1s
Really isn’t this the problem. The Capitalization of every GD thing? If the grifter wants to sell snake oil, he has to discredit anyone giving away a vaccine for free. If sound and consistent economic policy results in a better future for everyone, why wait? For a couple of dollars this sure trick and underpants gnomes will make you rich now. Grifters can’t have Jeebus handing out forgiveness or eternal life for free, so they guilt their congregants into tithing and paying for indulgences.
germy shoemangler
@Ksmiami:
I wish they’d hurry up
RedDirtGirl
@NotMax: How is it that I can always recognize a NotMax post, before seeing his nym ?
Betty Cracker
@germy shoemangler: Trump is jealous because Musk said he’d vote for DeSantis.
Betty Cracker
I’ve watched this at least half a dozen times…
Matt McIrvin
@New Deal democrat: The American alt-right likes to reference Jean Raspail’s The Camp of the Saints, an early-1970s French novel in which the invading non-white hordes were Indian.
At the time, worrying about the “Population Bomb” was all the rage, a convenient way of displacing fear and guilt about environmental destruction onto poor brown people in distant countries. These days, with birthrates falling basically everywhere except a few of the least fortunate places in the world, we don’t even really have that as a legitimate motivation. But xenophobes still try to frame their hatred of foreigners as a worry about teeming hordes crowding the country or using up our resources.
MagdaInBlack
@Betty Cracker: I’ve watched it at least that many times and forwarded it to at least that many people
Damien
@Spanky: Gross
SFAW
@bjacques:
I wish that this were true, but I’ll bet you a bunch of good beer, plus a democracy, that it’s just wishful thinking.
ETA: To calm to hackles of the “OMFG another Eeyore death to Eeyores!” crowd: I’m talking about them uniting. I also think there’s a risk of them trying to take over, but I don’t (yet) think they’ll succeed.
rikyrah
Good Morning, Everyone.
Geminid
Yesterday @RonFipkowski had a good example of the Republican race through the bottom. Filipkowski screenshot a TruthSocial missive by Laura Loomer, Republican candidate for the Florida 11th CD:
rikyrah
@germy shoemangler:
Not my business
marklar
@RevRick: Yeah, but the State Senator (Pat Browne, Republican) who landed us that development opportunity lost his primary to an inexperienced candidate running against CRT.
OTOH, we finally have a mayor with a Hispanic identity.
I’ve long said that Allentown should embrace our Hispanic community by declaring itself to be officially bilingual (English and Spanish). Progressive companies looking to relocate to the East Coast would look at that as a plus, making us a more appealing location. Let’s use our diversity as a magnet!
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
rikyrah
@Baud:
The combination of Barack Obama’s competence and excellence
With
His 2012 re-election
Is what broke a certain segment of White people.
Never forget…. Willard got the same percentage of White people as Dolt45…and, the non-White people of this country stepped up and said…
“No, this Black man is OUR President.”
rikyrah
@OzarkHillbilly:
Truth… That was his inheritance
rikyrah
@OzarkHillbilly:
As someone who is waiting for the parts to a damn BRAND NEW WASHING MACHINE to come in….
I am jealous
zhena gogolia
Front page story in NYT by Peter Baker about how Biden is showing his age.
When did they ever cover Trump’s obvious mental deficits?
prostratedragon
@RevRick: Shoutout to the family of George and Peggy Owens of Allentown. We got a Christmas card from them one year, and had no idea why. (Must have been that my father had a somewhat common first-last name combo.)
OzarkHillbilly
You would certainly get plenty of attention. From the Embarrassing Boys, and the Traitor’sassend, the 1/4 %ers, etc etc.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
The NYT is garbage.
OzarkHillbilly
@rikyrah: That’s what he thought anyway.
@rikyrah: That’s why I rubbed it in. :-)
Cameron
@Geo Wilcox: Same as it ever was.
https://www.facinghistory.org/holocaust-and-human-behavior/chapter-2/inventing-black-and-white
oatler
@zhena gogolia:
MTP is starting with Chuck Todd pointing out Biden’s failure and his upcoming defeat at the hands of the GOP…and we have a few GOP guests as it turns out! I miss Crooks & Liars’ Bobblespeak feature on Sunday morning that told us about Sunday guests.
Cameron
@RevRick: Not just Billy Joel – Frank Zappa had harsh words about ‘sitting in a breakfast room in Allentown, Pennsylvania.’
rikyrah
@zhena gogolia:
Never
Never ever
Baker is phucking trash
Betty Cracker
@Geminid: That’s my district, and if Loomer wins the Republican primary, she’ll be the rep regardless of the ample evidence of her unfitness and stupidity. So, I’m in the shitty position of hoping the corrupt old bible-humper incumbent wins.
MomSense
@Baud: Is there some connection between Abe and Moonies?
different-church-lady
@OzarkHillbilly: Commie.
Baud
@MomSense:
The only thing I heard of is that he spoke at their convention.
MomSense
@oatler:
They resurrected Rich Fucking Lowry from his exile in out of step with modernityville to opine on Biden’s terrible horrible no good very bad comments on abortion.WTAF
NotMax
‘@OzarkHillbilly
Speaking of (possibly) being pulled back from teetering on the brink of extinction—
Uncle Cosmo
@Jack Canuck: Bloody well played!
Geminid
@Betty Cracker: Daniel Webster ought to win that primary. Although if his opponent bites him all bets are off.
Baud
@MomSense:
Was Rick Santorum not available?
different-church-lady
Thanks Zuckerberg!
Betty Cracker
@Geminid: Loomer could probably oust Webster if she ran a smart campaign. She could emphasize that Webster has been a pol for 40+ years and that he and his family hoover up taxpayer dollars to construct and maintain personal miles-long driveways to their palatial estates while half of the constituents live in leaky trailers on flood-prone, unpaved roads. Luckily, Loomer is dumb as a rock, so she’ll keep comparing herself to a rabid dog with a bone
ETA: My favorite Loomer memory is that time she handcuffed herself to ONE of the double doors at Twitter HQ to protest being kicked off the platform. People came and went through the other door…
NotMax
‘@OzarkHillbilly
Can’t… resist… linking.
:)
MagdaInBlack
@MomSense: They’ve all jumped on the ” Biden is old and frail and failing and a fuck up” train, and I refuse to watch or listen to them.
Doug R
@OzarkHillbilly:
According to Consumer Reports, an efficient top load agitator washer used 19 gallons of water, a HE top load used 13 gallons, and a modern front load used 7 gallons.
Ninedragonspot
Went to San Francisco’s Ukrainian Hall last night to hear a concert by Oksana Bilozir, a folk/pop singer from L’viv who also has had a side-career in politics. She’s doing a sort of goodwill tour of the US. I was impressed – she’s now 65, but still brings a fair bit of energy to her performances and her voice still sounds strong. An excellent cultural ambassador. She’s still traveling throughout the US this month.
(This was also a welcome opportunity for me to pick up some Ukrainian – I had studied Polish and Russian before. Studying pop songs is a very pleasant way to get oriented in a new Slavic language)
hand-held video here.
Another Scott
@New Deal democrat: Yup. We’ve seen this play before. It’s a very, very old theme.
FacingHistory.org:
Emo Phillips – Golden Gate Bridge (4:15)
Cheers,
Scott.
OzarkHillbilly
@different-church-lady: You’re just jealous.
Baud
@Another Scott:
To be quoted in an Alito opinion in the near future.
germy shoemangler
@Another Scott:
OverTwistWillie
Anyone remember US Steel kissing Trump ‘s ass, and him “saving” their Granite City works?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-28/u-s-steel-plant-trump-saved-slated-to-end-steelmaking-forever
UncleEbeneezer
None of this is new. It is the same bullshit that resulted in the Chinese Exclusion Act and deportation of a Million Mexican-Americans, almost a century ago. The perpetual fear of Others has been one of the biggest (probably THE biggest) problem facing humanity for a very long time. A large swath of people would rather die than let people of other races, ethnicities, genders, sex pref., religions etc., have ANYTHING.
There go two miscreants
@Betty Cracker:
It would have been more amusing if people had insisted on using the door she was handcuffed to! I would pay to see that.
Another Scott
@Brachiator: Something something consent of the governed.
Best of luck to the Sri Lankan people.
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@OverTwistWillie:
I’m confident Congresswoman Elk will be vo-sponsoring anti-trans legislation to take care of the problem ASAP.
I wonder if she voted against the transportation bill.
Another Scott
@Betty Cracker: Look at him in the mirror preening.
What is happening in his head??
Cheers,
Scott.
Cameron
@MagdaInBlack: You would think that none of them had ever heard the gibberish that Donald Trump vomited out every day. Joe Biden is neither senile nor incoherent, but compared to Trump he sounds like a 25-yr-old Mensa bro.
germy shoemangler
Yeah but Trump never threatened to raise their taxes
Another Scott
@Cameron: GMTA.
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@germy shoemangler:
Good point. Makes me wonder whether negotiations with Sinemanchin are going better than we think.
Another Scott
@MomSense: There’s a tweet from nycsouthpaw where he sees a link to the Q insanity.
The world is getting smaller all the time.
:-(
Cheers,
Scott.
BlueGuitarist
@marklar:
@RevRick:
From afar the Lehigh Valley/Eastern PA looks like one of the most important places in 2022 elections.
Redistricting made Republican PA Senate Appropriations chair Pat Browne’s district redder (from Biden +7 to Biden -7) which made it red enough for him to lose the primary to some dude financed by a billionaire who wants to end public schools.
This gives the Democratic challenger Mark Pinsley a better shot at flipping the district; and Democrats a chance to flip the PA Senate.
With Fetterman and Shapiro’s coattails, and reverse coattails from good down-ballot candidates – synergy up and down the ballot – PA looks good.
I’m working on putting together a slate of down-ballot candidates in districts overlapping other winnable districts: US House, state senate, state house.
Welcome advice from all at BJ.
In any case, love all y’all.
Cameron
@Another Scott: I hope you meant “Great Minds Think Alike” and not “Good Morning, Total Asshole.”
Jackie
Fox news keeps making the same mistake…
https://www.rawstory.com/pete-buttigieg-brett-kavanaugh/
The video is priceless!
J R in WV
@marklar:
Plus you wouldn’t have many pesky racist fascists trying to move into town!
Benw
Eid Mubarak!!
It seems so much easier to just go ahead and live in reality.
Another Scott
@Cameron: [ snort! ]
:-)
Cheers,
Scott.
MagdaInBlack
@Cameron: Well, that’s just it, isn’t it? Glossed over trumps obvious mental deficiency and now jumping all over some hesitancy from a man of such obvious intelligence and understanding of policy.
Fuk off with that bs.
BlueGuitarist
@Betty Cracker:
@MagdaInBlack:
Excellent!
Enjoy bear adjusting traffic cone:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGgM3c1e8vQ
MagdaInBlack
@BlueGuitarist: LOL. More thoughtful than most people.
Benw
@BlueGuitarist: adorable!
phdesmond
@zhena gogolia:
zhena, i found this on Languagehat.com and thought you might like it?
a map of “ближайшие к Москве местности, характеризуемые русскими литераторами как глушь, захолустье” [the closest places to Moscow that were characterized by Russian writers as the hinterlands, the back of beyond], each dot labeled with the name(s) of the writers who so designated it; it’s funny and enlightening, and can be seen as Figure 20 on p. 39 of this pdf.
peter
Villago Delenda Est
@germy shoemangler:
“So he’s another bullshit artist”. Well, at least he’s an artist, unlike TFG.
Another Scott
@MagdaInBlack: TFG thought The Most Interesting Man in the World ads (“he’s the only man to have ever aced the Rorschach test”) was a list of actual accomplishments.
Or wanted his cult to think so (“you just tell them and they believe, they just do”).
More people need to take dsquareddigest’s admonition to heart – never give known liars the benefit of the doubt.
Grr…,
Scott.
different-church-lady
@OzarkHillbilly:
Not at all, I’m a commie too. ApplianceParts.com rocks.
prostratedragon
@BlueGuitarist:
“That is all.”
— Your Roadside Superintendent
Villago Delenda Est
@zhena gogolia: Peter Baker should be flayed alive.
Cacti
This x infinity.
A black man serving two terms as POTUS made the right absolutely lose their shit, and they never recovered it.
phdesmond
@zhena gogolia:
very annoying of the Times.
Starfish
@OzarkHillbilly: This applies to all appliances: The new machines have little computers in them. When the little computers die, it is expensive to replace them.
Another Scott
@Cacti: Racist over-reaction was important and a big part, yes.
But I think the main reason why all the reactionaries came out in 2016 was because of the 30+ year campaign against Hillary. They have feared her for decades because they know how talented and how much of a game-changer she would be (even with all the roadblocks they would try to throw up). VVP hates her with the heat of 10,000 suns, also too, because she had his number and would have ramped up sanctions even more.
(My departed best friend from high school was on the ABC bus – “Anyone But Clinton”.)
So, I would rank it:
And even with all that, HRC still got more votes…
YMMV.
[eta:] They will try the same playbook against Kamala, but it won’t work because they haven’t been attacking her for 30+ years….
Cheers,
Scott.
Starfish
@germy shoemangler: Trump is mad that the deal is not happening because Elon was going to let Trump back on Twitter.
Tony Jay
@Jack Canuck:
Heh.
And let us not speak of the Federation of Extremely Rural Alienated Lycanthropes or those layabouts who occasionally pay their dues to the Guild of Haitian and Other Unliving Lifeforms Interested in Succulent Humans
Wait, what we’re we talking about? I think I just received a Cease and Desist hex from the Enchanters of Earthly Reality – Interdimensional Evocation
Starfish
@SFAW: “I am not afraid because these folks are not going after me (yet)” is what that quote sounded like to me.
It is not Eeyore-ism to treat threats seriously, given how many “calm yourselves, they would not do that” things that have come to pass.
Kathleen
@MagdaInBlack: Good to know the “script of the week” since I refuse to watch, read or listen to any member of the Copy/Paste Commandos.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Another Scott: Hillary Hate is a very strange phenomenon, not just on the right but on the left and in the center. Misogyny explains a lot, maybe most of it? but not all.
I have a half-baked theory that a lot of people who thought they should hate Bubba, either for his politics or his personal life, but just couldn’t bring themselves to because he was such a charming rascal, so they transfer it HRC. I think some of that applied to Earthtones Al, as well. But again, that doesn’t explain all of it
J R in WV
@Another Scott:
Really? I would say they’ve been beating the drum about scary black women since the first Civil Rights Act was passed… I hope that doesn’t work, Madam VP Harris seems to be smart and capable, and would be a better President than any Republican’t fascist I can think of.
MagdaInBlack
@J R in WV: All the folks that said she “wasn’t really black” will decide that now she is indeed black. And scary.
Baud
@J R in WV:
Pretty low bar.
Starfish
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think that the George W Bush presidency made people more reluctant about a Hillary Clinton presidency. There is no reason that the presidency should be handed back and forth between two families.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I think part of it was that Hillary was hard to pigeonhole into an archetype.
Baud
@Starfish:
That was more of an excuse people came up with than anything real. I recall we had a couple of years of Chelsea panic, which was totally ridiculous.
Another Scott
(via nycsouthpaw)
Cheers,
Scott.
opiejeanne
@Damien: Gross? What part of her having a baby did you not understand?
Baud
@Another Scott:
Haha. Old man still got it when it comes to zingers.
livewyre
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That never occurred to me before. It could be both/and – the “charming rascal” was a personable but conventional politician who happened to have a wife who insisted on taking part in political activity. It doesn’t even come into play what those actions or their effects were, or what qualifications she had worked toward – in normative terms, she was always and forever the wife who forgot her place. They trashed the place, and it especially wasn’t hers.
Haroldo
@Brachiator:
And yet the cricket must go on!
Sri Lanka – Australia Test Match
Baud
Via reddit
Avalanche!
SFAW
@Starfish:
I didn’t sense any self-focused sentiment in the comment to which I responded; I saw it as a country-focused comment.
Some here might disagree with your sober/rational analysis.
Baud
@Haroldo:
Cricket is life.
JaneE
I think “catching up” would be far more accurate than “overtaking”, and all things considered that might not even be the case any more.
Rights generally are not a zero sum game, until you actually get into “rights” to commit crimes, which really aren’t rights at all. All citizens over 18 are allowed to vote. The limits on who votes where and for whom are based on geography, not the number of people who live in a certain area.
Limiting the number of Representatives to 435 is a problem so far as giving the voters equal weight, but there should be ways to resolve that that do not involve violence, just changing some words written a long time ago.
What is it about some people that look for any excuse to be violent and harm others?
livewyre
@Starfish: Conventionally, wives tend to get lumped in with offspring, so I can see how that line gets traction. Or did, when it was relevant.
livewyre
@SFAW: I’m confident that we can operate outside of a manufactured split between complacency and resignation, as soberly and rationally as needed.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Good for Joe!
(“screamed” is an interesting word choice…)
SFAW
@Another Scott:
One of the replies to that tweet (after someone commented that Fox would somehow blame Biden):
Haroldo
@Baud:
No argument here.
Starfish
@Baud: For me, it was real.
The American Dream for first and second generation immigrants is that anyone can make it in the USA. Even if it is an unfulfilled dream, the way our plutocrats have been collecting more of the wealth and being unaccountable for any wrong doing, it really destroys any illusion of the American Dream being real.
Ivanka is still sitting there acting like she has a future in political office with the way she was tweeting out about Shinzo Abe.
Starfish
@livewyre: It is very weird!
I have seen men run for school board on “my wife is a school teacher.”
Men get credit for the work of their wives, and their wives get punished for the bad behavior of their men.
Baud
@Starfish:
It’s a nice sentiment in the abstract. I just don’t see anyone ever applying it in a situation where they like the candidate.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I wish some academic would do a comparison about the choice of words used to talk about GOP and Dem presidents.
trollhattan
@Betty Cracker: Truly, “fucking with bears” is something I have to support. They know what they did.
zhena gogolia
WaPo: “Inside Biden’s Struggle to Respond to Abortion Ruling”
He’s always struggling and trying, when he isn’t falling off his bike
BlueGuitarist
@JaneE:
No accident they stopped increasing the size of the House of Representatives just as the population became mostly urban, under-representing people in cities.
The size of the House should be increased (along with the Senate and Courts).
And they should change the ridiculous formula for allocating seats based on the geometric mean that further overrepresents small population states.
livewyre
@Starfish: So why do the same thing? It’s not a substantial concern that experience transfers by parentage, by marriage, or by friendship. Sharing a last name isn’t the problem.
Starfish
@Baud: In the history of Presidenting in the US, the ones who were direct relatives of earlier presidents were typically not as good, right? Was John Quincy Adams as good as John Adams?
Even though the child of a politician may be good at being a politician, I treat them as suspect until they prove competent.
I felt that way about John Sarbanes. He turned out to be okay, but he had an easier road to a political career because his father was also a politician.
Baud
@Starfish:
Small sample size when talking about the presidency.
I recall JQA was strong against slavery. I’m not sure that most historians would regard him as worse than his father.
trollhattan
@Starfish: I’ll offer Nancy Pelosi and Jerry Brown as kids of politicians who were at least as successful as their politician dads. IDK how it works out statistically; we’ll just stipulate that in cases like Mario Cuomo, the kids should have stayed completely out of the public eye.
Cameron
@J R in WV: The line of attack that I’ve seen against her is “she hasn’t accomplished anything/she doesn’t do anything/what has she ever done/etc.” All to create the totally false impression that she’s coasted her entire career on political connections and affirmative action – basically, whatever puppet character would play second fiddle to Biden’s Mortimer Snerd.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Starfish: Gimme ten minutes to skim wiki and thus gain expertise on the relative merits of the Harrisons.
Starfish
@Baud: I don’t want to live through Elon Musk’s presidency or the presidency of his 9 children. Well, maybe the one who transitioned and dropped her father’s name.
Starfish
@trollhattan: Yes. I was surprised when I learned that Nancy Pelosi was from a political dynasty.
I agree about the Cuomo children.
Scout211
In an update to that story about TFG waiving
omertà“executive privilege” for Bannon, it appears that Bannon is asking to testify in public. It sounds like he is prepared to grandstand. No surprise.Zoe Lofgren was interviewed on CNN this morning and reacted to the letter that TFG sent.
Matt McIrvin
@bjacques: They’re really good and consistent at voting Republican, though.
Cameron
@Starfish: Coverture lives!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Scout211: I forget which former-federal-prosecutor said on MSNBC that Bannon is most likely looking to throw a wrench in the prosecution of his contempt case
livewyre
@Starfish: I think there’s a premise going unquestioned here; namely, that responsibility being transferred by social association is itself the origin of a problem – particularly in the case of succession, rather than installing subordinates with social ties or for social reasons.
If we want experience in office then it has to get there somehow. Until we pick our representatives by sortition rather than election, it’s going to travel the way experience usually travels, and cluster along the same lines. I could see a taboo to it, like marrying cousins, but that doesn’t really transfer in itself, does it?
The argument seems to rely on another, more suitable candidate getting crowded out (or “cleared [from] the field”), without demonstrating it. But then, insinuation is good enough for some purposes.
Omnes Omnibus
@Starfish: JQA was certainly far better than Andrew Jackson.
Baud
@livewyre:
I thought that was a neologism based on the Hogwarts sorting hat. But it’s apparently a real word.
Cameron
@trollhattan: It’s strange that so many people assume that children will be somehow more liberal than their parents. The example that comes to mind for me is Mitt and George Romney. While Mitt isn’t a full-blown MAGA lunatic, George was actually pretty liberal. I remember a story that when he was CEO of American Motors, he turned down a pay raise the board wanted to give him because he felt it would be wrong for him to receive so much more than the workers. Compare and contrast with Bain Capital.
Added: I apologize to everybody for being so long-winded and commenting so much. Must have had too much coffee this morning. Will try to achieve a better balance by getting drunk this afternoon.
Scout211
@Cameron:
Looking forward to your comments this afternoon.
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
Not to racists.
opiejeanne
@Damien: What’s gross? She had a baby and she is awestruck and in love and terrified, as new parents sometimes are.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud:
Yet another upside.
trollhattan
@Cameron: George seemed to have a strong moral compass, and not of the hectoring morality police type. Supported civil rights! Had he taken Nixon out who can guess where we’d have gone?
Mitt begins with the whole “corporations are people, my friend” foundation and while not aggressively a neocon and certainly not a Trumpster, he’ll do us no favors when push comes to shove.
An improvement over Orin Hatch, to be sure.
trollhattan
@Scout211: Damn, I was hoping to count Bannon’s shirts as he testified. [grumpyface]
Matt McIrvin
@SFAW: I see American conservatives gradually convincing themselves that they need to murder the other half of the US population. The justification is that we’re plotting to do it to them. I don’t know how to stop it, since this kind of prophecy is self-fulfilling to some degree; people who are threatened, truly or delusionally, naturally want to defend themselves.
New Deal democrat
@Baud: JQA was probably also the best Secretary of State the US ever had at any time before the Cold War. And maybe ever.
CaseyL
@Matt McIrvin: Not so gradually, if you count mass shootings as stochastic terrorism. I think the eliminationism is already in progress.
Starfish
Perhaps the Democratic Party needs better candidates.
gene108
@BlueGuitarist:
Expanding seats in the House of Representatives is something House Democrats should be working towards for 2030, but no one bothers thinking about it.
I don’t know why.
If expanding the House could guarantee a Republican majority for a generation, they’d do it in a heartbeat.
It’s within the powers of Congress to do this. It’s something that was done every ten years, until 1929.
It’d solve a lot of problems with the popular vote loser for President winning the EC. It’d end the limit the over representation of rural areas, since changing the Senate make up is much, much harder.
Ruckus
@zhena gogolia:
They liked covering SFB because it took no effort to BS about him.
Joe is an actual human being with an actual human partner and actual human children. He has faults, as we all do, and while I’m sure he likes money, he doesn’t worship it and still understands that it’s necessary and useful. SFB just likes to hoard money because it makes him worth something which he would not be in any way without the hoarding, IOW SFB is worse than a completely useless human, he sucks up oxygen and loose change and thinks the world owes him everything because he’s special. If he only understood that in his case special is not a positive, not in any way, shape or form.
Villago Delenda Est
@Starfish:
Yet she got 3 million more votes than TFG. Only the slavery-enabled Electoral College stood in her way.
livewyre
@Starfish: Where do you suppose a better candidate comes from? It turns out that democracy is a process. No one’s willpower alone is going to make things better in that state or anywhere else. You’ve got to work for it. And that doesn’t seem to be what you’re doing.
Matt McIrvin
@gene108: The phenomenon of the popular vote loser winning the EC is mostly not because of the small-state bonus; it’s mostly because so much hinges on large, close swing states, which lately have happened to almost all lean Republican (partly but not entirely because of anti-democratic fuckery), while the big deep-blue states are very, very Democratic. Expanding the House would not help with that.
It used to be that there was a rough balance, where the small-state bonus for Republicans was balanced out by Republicans in big blue states not affecting the result. But the swing-state shift knocked that all out of whack.
Getting rid of winner-take-all states and somehow allocating electoral votes proportionally would help, but only if everyone did it, which will not happen–in practice this would probably only be gamed to help one party.
Splitting Image
@Starfish:
Quincy doesn’t get enough credit for keeping Andrew Jackson out of the White House for four years. And I’d argue that Benjamin Harrison had more achievements as President than his grand-dad.
I’d choose Frankie over Teddy in an instant, so I think the only case where a direct relative of an earlier President was distinctly worse was Bush the Even Lesser. Mind you, that’s the most relevant example to current politics.
Villago Delenda Est
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The vile vermin of the Village at work, again. Shades of Howard Dean!
Wipe them out. All of them.
Jay
Uber,
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/uber-ride-hailing-ijic-1.6514563
Villago Delenda Est
@Matt McIrvin: Hell yes expanding the House would fix that. California’s total EC count would swamp most of the swing states, and the Presidency would be forever out of the grasp of the fascists.
Matt McIrvin
@Starfish: John Adams gets more credit as a Founder than for his presidency, which was rancorous and unpopular. The Alien and Sedition Acts were reactionary and tyrannical.
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: They never talk about Trump’s age or Bernie Sanders age. Have you noticed?
Matt McIrvin
@Villago Delenda Est: Ohio and Florida would get more electoral votes too, by almost the same proportion. The small states that currently have just 1, 2 or 3 Representatives would get significantly less representation in the aggregate. But those actually aren’t all deep red, either–some of them are among the bluest states in the country.
RevRick
@marklar: I bet Mayor Matt Tuerk would eagerly get behind this idea!
Steeplejack
@Another Scott:
“Screamed”?
Starfish
@Villago Delenda Est: This is not at all relevant to the link I posted. This is about the Democratic Party not investing in the South to help people build a meaningful party.
oatler
@Matt McIrvin:
He was obnoxious and disliked!
livewyre
@Starfish: To be fair, it would help if you stuck to a single topic. Unless the topic is to raise suspicion towards the national Democratic Party in general.
Matt McIrvin
@oatler: Since I just saw ART’s amazing revival of ‘1776’, I was reading up on the play and its historical fidelity or lack thereof–it turns out that that characterization was leaning heavily on Adams’ memoirs, which were probably colored by his memories of his time as President. There’s little evidence of his being generally disliked in the Continental Congress, aside from his own perception.
Ruckus
@Matt McIrvin:
Is this country about the people or about the land?
Because as it’s structured it seems to be far more about the land, rather than the inhabitants. When it was founded it was not all that unreasonable. Now it is. The state of WY has about 20% of the population of the county I live in, and less than my congressional district by quite a lot. My voice, your voice, anyone’s voice in DC should be as close to equal as possible to anyone else’s voice, and it isn’t.
zhena gogolia
@schrodingers_cat: I have.
Matt McIrvin
@Ruckus: This is a fine moral argument, but my point is, it’s not actually hugely shifting the partisan balance of recent Presidential elections–that is more down to how a small number of large states of mixed partisanship happen to lean.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Starfish:
“investing in the South”– assuming as these critiques always do, for some reason, limitless resources– would probably mean supporting candidates who would fail several of your purity tests
livewyre
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Critique would imply a goal of making the party do better, which might be a little generous. Something about the consistency of message – including making “critiques” as unanswerable as possible and coming up with a fresh one as soon as it gets answered – doesn’t instill me with the highest hopes of a common goal.
Anyway
@gene108:
Expanding seats in the House of Representatives is something House Democrats should be working towards for 2030, but no one bothers thinking about it.
Yes, I hope the moneybags and brains behind the Ds are working on this — just sending zillions of texts asking for more money isn’t going to cut it. (Not blaming elected pols here but people planning strategy on out side)
StringOnAStick
Another thing that needs to happen now is getting my FOX off the TV’s at all military installations and off armed forces radio. Having that crap forcefully pumped into military minds is a serious, serious problem.
I have a friend who was in the Army in the late ’80’s, she never saw or heard FOX or hate media on base; she joined a vets group over the shock they were all processing over the 1/6 insurrection and the thing she and the other group members were most freaked out about was how many current and former military were in the ranks of insurrectionists. I wasn’t surprised by it but I read more politics than she does. Our all volunteer military is selecting for and creating wing nuts.