Longtime DailyKos diarist thereisnospoon takes a swing at the question. It’s Kos, so avert your eyes if partisanship causes a burning sensation.
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by Tim F| 36 Comments
This post is in: Politics, Science & Technology
Longtime DailyKos diarist thereisnospoon takes a swing at the question. It’s Kos, so avert your eyes if partisanship causes a burning sensation.
Comments are closed.
Zifnab
Don’t worry, it only burns when I pee.
AkaDad
I don’t think this burning is from partisanship.
Konrad
OT
Bush my have trampled on a few of our rights but at least the planes were on time!
jenniebee
Well. He could teach Greenwald long-windedness.
I think he hits the point pretty well though. Responding to climate change is an almost perfect example of the benefice of governments acting to solve problems, even when that means the regulation and curtailment of free markets. The Kristols of the world have to look at the situation and say that they know the cure is anathema, and just hope that the sickness won’t really be as bad as all those scientists say it will be. It’s worth it to them to fight that with every tooth, nail, disinformation campaign and outrage factory they can muster.
grumpy realist
This is why, in my opinion, so many “libertarians” deny the existence of Global Warming.
It’s not a problem that is going to be solved by the Free Market (TM). It’s going to need regulations and pushing by gov’t and carbon taxes and all sorts of stuff.
In short, government.
So because in the Libertarian mindset the gov’t is Inherently Evil and can’t possibly do Anything Good, the only way out of this philosophical pickle is to deny that GW exists.
Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop
Why would anyone pay any attention to a guy so massively ill-informed that he would write:
It took, seriously, five seconds to Google these.
President Bush:
President Bush:
President Bush:
NPR interview:
I hope Al Gore can save whatever planet this know-nothing diarist lives on.
Pb
And it must be addressed by the world because Bush hasn’t done jack about it… or worse. See also: “healthy forests”, “clear skies”, and “mission accomplished”.
Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop
By the way, you could explode heads at Dkos by pointing out that Evil Darth Cheney is on record as believing in man-made global warming, too.
Andrew
Last week’s 30 Rock was one of the funniest half hours of TV in recent memory. They pegged both right wing and left wing enviro-absurdity perfectly with David Schwimmer as Greenzo:
“The free market will solve global warming… if it even exists!”
I am going to shill for big media and insist that you all watch it.
Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop
Ditto Giuliani:
Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop
And John McCain:
So is that dude’s cartoon premise destroyed yet? Or shall I go on?
Perry Como
Cheney supports global warming. Reptiles like warm weather.
Cyrus
Indeed, but he could take a lesson from Greenwald about relying on prose to make his point rather than formatting. I reserve the right to ignore anything in which entire sentences are bolded in the original text.
This is not my most unsubstantive comment ever, but it’s close. On the other hand, sometimes I’ve had fun handling trolls by proofreading them, so I might as well try to do it to people I agree with who could use some deflating.
Sock Puppet of the Great Satan
EEEL wrote: “IT took five seconds to Google these”
Why don’t you Google yourself up the story of him leaving Christine Todd Whitman twisting in the breeze after he reneged on his campaign promise to treat CO2 as a pollulant, withdrawing the US from being a signatory on Kyoto, squishing a NAS report on global warming in 2003, trying to gag Jim Hansen, or the Bush OMB chopping six pages from a briefing by the head of the CDC on the likely effects of global warming on spread of disease.
There’s speeches, and then there’s actions, friend.
Ryan S.
Its nice to see the Republican leadership agree with Al Gore.
This is a very telling list of polls.(PDF alert) Of course the whole thing changes when it comes time to actually do anything about it.
That and then theres the whole Inhofe show that has pretty much left most non-deniers with a bad taste in their mouth, and that Climate Audit tied for first place thing.
jenniebee
So, EEEL’s position, I take it, is that Bush and Cheney and basically lots and lots of Republicans do acknowledge that climate scientists know more about climate science than they do. So Bush and Cheney know that continuing to increase the rate at which we are releasing CO2 into the atmosphere is reckless and dangerous, but they refuse to take substantial action to decrease carbon emissions anyway. This information, EEEL feels, would make Bush opponents’ heads explode, if only they knew it.
“By their fruits, ye shall know them.” I read that in a book somewhere once, and you know what? It kind of made sense.
jcricket
Thanks for the link Tim – I do like the point that TNR had to name their climate change blog “Planet Gore”. That’s how you know someone’s wrong, if the foundation of their argument is an ongoing ad-hominem attack (see also the boogey-man, George Soros).
I think at the heart, he’s right. Reagan said “The 9 most dangerous words in the english language are ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help'”. Seriously, “9 Most Dangerous Words”. Norquist and his ilk claim they want to “drown government in a bathtub”. When your party has fundamentally wedded itself to the idea that the government is, at best, the worst solution to any problem, and at worst, actively destroying society, the things you want the least are:
* The government doing a good job (or even better than the private sector)
* A problem that the free market can’t solve (or will solve very, very poorly).
That’s why the hate Social Security so much (successful program, reminds people of the good government can do, etc.). And that’s why they’re so opposed to national healthcare, goverment-led climate change reductions, etc.
People will see the government working and know that Republicans voted against all that good stuff. Once again, they’ll spend 40 years in the wilderness. I actually think that’s what’s about to happen unless the Republicans radically change course.
jcricket
Fixed for climate-change-results appropriateness.
To quote our Libertarian friends inevitable reply, “Well, go breathe somewhere else then!”
jrg
I heard Newt gibbering about Global Warming on NPR the other day. Two of his biggest talking points were:
1) The EPA was started by a Republican president.
2) Republicans will look to the free market for solutions to climate change.
In other words, he was simultaneously praising the GOP for previous government intervention, while insisting future intervention should be handled by the private sector. He was talking out of both sides of his mouth. The GOP is the party of all talk.
Government-enforced carbon trading agreements are the best “free market” solution to the problem, and the Dems have already suggested them.
That leaves the GOP obstructionists and contrarians with nothing to sell but more empty promises, doubletalk, and meaningless legislation.
Zifnab
Because all Republican policy revolves around talking a big game and then doing whatever you damn well please. Kinda like the “hunt” for OBL, funding NCLB, firing anyone who leaked a CIA agent’s name to the press (heck, even big bad Dick Armitage kept his job), repairing NO after it was hit by a hurricane, … you can fill out the list as well as I can.
See, Bush *says* he believes in Global Warming, so that means he didn’t suppress NASA, the CDC, the EPA, or any other government funded research groups. Bush says a lot of things.
binzinerator
Sure, Eeel, Bush et al address this — exactly in the same way he addresses torture. Or the lack of any connection between Iraq and 9/11. Or the rebuilding of New Orleans. Or the use of diplomacy with Iraq and now Iran. Or holding people accountable who were involved in the Plame leak. Or being ‘a uniter not a divider’. Or our 4th Amendment rights. Or respecting the Constitution in general.
It’s been a long history of saying one thing and turning around and doing another, a program of mendacious photo-op posturing or outright lies.
Consider your cartoon premise destroyed. You needn’t go on.
binzinerator
I see Zifnab said pretty much the same 20 minutes ago. Shoulda read all the way to the end of the thread.
Peter Johnson
Conservatives don’t hate “climate science”, they dispute whether there’s really much science in it at all. Here’s what one actual scientist had to say:
Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop
But that’s not this Kossack’s stated premise. It’s not that “all” Republicans don’t want to do X to lower carbon emissions to X level, it’s that “all” Republicans (although not one is named, of course) don’t believe in manmade global warming — they deny the science — because of…well, several silly reasons that don’t make sense except to the most cartoonish of thinkers. It was easy to show that just the reverse is true, wasn’t it?
Johnny Pez
Peter Johnson says:
“Peter Johnson!
Peter!
Johnson!
Get it?
I’m a DICK!
Get it??
Get it??“
The Other Andrew
…I am not seeing this massive re-examination of climate change. Is this anything like the invisible, massive re-examinations of evolution, how gay people are magically influencing straight marriage, and birth control?
Peter Johnson
Correct. Liberals would have you believe that everyone who thinks manmade global warming is a farce is actually denying that temperatures have gone up in the past 20 years. Temperatures have gone up…the same way they’ve periodically and cyclically done so for the past billion years. That’s the one thing actual scientists do agree on, ironically.
RSA
One actual retired chemistry professor who writes for a newspaper. Yes, we know that scientific consensus doesn’t mean universal agreement, and disagreement increases as one moves toward the fringes. What else is new?
Disputing whether climate science is real science is equivalent to saying that supply-side economics isn’t economics. (That’s sometimes said, but it’s shorthand for saying it’s simply wrong–do the same for climate science.)
Cuzco
Oy.
Just for the sake of argument, let’s assume that every piece of evidence presented by those who think that humans have contributed to global warming is 100 percent crap.
Pretend that 30 years of temperature measurements, carbon concentration in the atmosphere, gigantic chunks of ice breaking off of Antarctica, the north pole losing 1/3 of it’s ice in a single year are all the result of natural forces etc. What difference does it make towards long range planning?
What are the downsides of switching to clean energy producing technologies? Wouldn’t it be great to not have to worry about where our next barrel of oil is coming from? Wouldn’t it be great to not have to pay anyone for the energy needed to heat your house or charge your electric car? If the sun hitting the roof of your house can provide for all your energy needs, that’s a huge chunk of money for individuals and the country as a whole to invest in our future as a species. Think of the money that would free up.
What are the downsides of actively trying to keep the temperature at current levels so that hundreds of millions of people aren’t displaced by rising sea levels? What are the downsides to preventing 1/3 of Florida and large chunks of the eastern seaboard from disappearing into the ocean?
Who gives a crap which side is “right” on the theory?
I suspect you’ll dismiss this suggestion out of hand, but watch “An inconvenient truth.” I watched it for the first time yesterday (it became available on iTunes) and there is more to global warming than just temperature or who is responsible.
I found some of it to be excruciatingly sappy (particularly the little field trips into Gore’s past) but it’s really quite interesting when he gets back to the slide show parts of his presentation.
Perhaps the most important thing to take away from the movie is what happens when more heat is introduced into the global system. Desertification, sea current disruptions, rising sea levels etc. These are completely non politcal facts and are a real eye opener.
Brachiator
Can’t we just throw the dKos diarist and the most extreme conservative wingnuts in a closet together and throw away the key? The idea that the abolition of capitalism, and government regulation magically directed by “consumers” and labor will somehow usher in the renewable and sustainable millennium is a particularly feverish leftist wet-dream.
Reading a leftist ideologue rant about conservatives is about as illuminating as listening to an evangelical hold forth on why Muslims don’t believe in the baby Jesus.
rachel
Newsweek Magazine may be working on that.
MFB
Actually this is one of the most intelligent things I’ve come across on dKos. It’s all perfectly true. Alas, it doesn’t only apply to Republicans; it also explains why that great Green giant Gore did absolutely nothing about global warming while he was an unnaturally-powerful Vice-President, and why so many other countries’ governments don’t do anything either.
Real responses to global warming imply socio-political changes which the elite do not want to see happen.
CJ
What Gore did for the environment as Vice President:
Intoduction by Vice President Al Gore
The Clinton Presidency: Protecting Our Environment and Public Health
I’m with Cuzco. What would be the harm in finding ways to conserve energy, save gas, and using what we have more efficiently? It would save us money, some scenic vistas and species that are now being consumed, and possibility a few million jobs.
Rebutting those who say Al Gore did nothing on the environment as VP:
Remarks announcing a new environmental policy – Clinton orders creation of the White House Office on Environmental Policy – Transcript
Gore, with Vest, outlines environment strategy
I swear some people are allergic to google.
Cuzco
Fixed your typos
BIRDZILLA
Global warming is alie and a hoax its being used by unscruplious persons like AL GORE and the eco-wacko community to control our lives they wont be happy till america has been reduced to a misrerble third world existence the whole global warming is a big fat lie
Brachiator
A nice bit of wit!
The sad thing is that there are conservatives and liberals who equally insist on reducing every issue in life to one of Ideology-Fu.