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You are here: Home / Politics / Republican Stupidity / I’ll Take The (de)Bait

I’ll Take The (de)Bait

by John Cole|  November 29, 200711:04 am| 48 Comments

This post is in: Republican Stupidity

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The Weekly Standard:

So, a good night for for the lowest denominator, a bad night for the GOP. America got to see a vaguely threatening parade of gun fetishists, flat worlders, Mars Explorers, Confederate flag lovers and zombie-eyed-Bible-wavers as well as various one issue activists hammering their pet causes.

So they think the questions unfairly represented the current GOP? Fine. Which questions? Which questions were plucked from the fringe?

I am betting that I can find someone in the top 500 of the TTLB blogroll who identifies as a Republican who has asked/stated/argued EVERY question asked last night, whether it be Mars exploration (I think the hardest one to link to the GOP) to the Confederate Flag to gun rights to the immigration stances to the biblical literalism portrayed last night.

So which questions were from the “fringe?” Fill me in. I am all ears. Because that IS the current Republican party- the lowest common denominator.

PS- Doesn’t the fact that a retired gay General scared the living shit out of the blogosphere’s bravest and brightest conservative stalwarts make the case for gays in the military? I mean, if you can make the Keyboard Commandos cringe, imagine what you can do to less hardy souls like Iraqi insurgents?

*** Update #2 ***

Still waiting. And while you are at it, nutters, explain to me how a Republican President is going to work with the Democratic supermajority in the House and Senate when they can’t even handle a question from a John Edwards supporter without wilting?

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48Comments

  1. 1.

    Jen

    November 29, 2007 at 11:10 am

    Not to flatter you, John, but the Republicans with any sense aren’t Republicans any more. Even my Dad isn’t going to vote Republican next time, and I really would have thought Mars exploration would have been more likely. These are the mouth-breathers you guys are left with.

  2. 2.

    uh_clem

    November 29, 2007 at 11:12 am

    … a vaguely threatening parade of gun fetishists, flat worlders, Mars Explorers, Confederate flag lovers and zombie-eyed-Bible-wavers as well as various one issue activists…

    This sounds like a cogent synopsis of what’s left of the Republican party as of 2007. Add in the “I’ve got mine, screw everybody else.” contingent of tax-eliminators and who else is left among the 28 percenters?

  3. 3.

    theRisingJurist

    November 29, 2007 at 11:19 am

    None of them were from the fringe, but in each case represent only half* the party. The Bible literalists don’t represent the other half* of Republicans who treat the Bible with less gravity, or who aren’t even Christians at all (yes, we exist). The stars ‘n’ bars good ol’ boys don’t represent the other half* of Republicans who live in diverse urban areas and appreciate that the flag is indeed offensive to people. The border militia crews don’t represent the other half* of of Republicans who understand that it’s more complicated than “Build a wall and deport them all.” The gun nuts don’t… ok, that one does pretty well represent the Republican party. We love guns, whoa man.

    *I use half as an easy rhetorical value. Actual values may vary.

  4. 4.

    gypsy howell

    November 29, 2007 at 11:21 am

    Add in the “I’ve got mine, screw everybody else.” contingent of tax-eliminators and who else is left among the 28 percenters?

    And for those people, we had the Grover Norquist submission last night, so they pretty much covered ALL the bases….

  5. 5.

    Jen

    November 29, 2007 at 11:22 am

    *I use half as an easy rhetorical value. Actual values may vary.

    Half = 6

  6. 6.

    28 Percent

    November 29, 2007 at 11:23 am

    America got to see a vaguely threatening parade of gun fetishists, flat worlders, Mars Explorers, Confederate flag lovers and zombie-eyed-Bible-wavers as well as various one issue activists hammering their pet causes.

    I do not understand what you are getting at here John Cole you make it sound like these are bad things. That is the Real America the rest of you are just new yorkers who are out of touch.

  7. 7.

    John Cole

    November 29, 2007 at 11:29 am

    None of them were from the fringe, but in each case represent only half* the party.

    Do you have any idea how insane this sounds? From a practical standpoint, how was CNN supposed to get questions that represent what the WHOLE party thinks when the candidates themselves all differ on the issues to varying degrees.

    Admit it- the questions were fine, and this is just another one of Malkin’s ginned up non-controversies.

  8. 8.

    Doubting Thomas

    November 29, 2007 at 11:49 am

    About that accusation that the gay soldier was a plant from the Hilary camp… I saw Matt Lauer repeat that this morning like it was a proven fact. All I can see is that some commenter at Red State made the accusation which Bill Bennett made sure he mentioned during Cooper’s post debate wrap-up. I haven’t seen any independent proof or verification of it. Pretty sad of NBC to go with rumors as fact, but par for the course.

    Did you see the group of undecideds after the debate?

    Q: Who will you vote for now?

    A: John Edwards

    Priceless…

  9. 9.

    theRisingJurist

    November 29, 2007 at 11:56 am

    Half = 6

    Haha. I personally know all six of them, then.

    Actually, doing the math on the Republicans I am well-acquainted with, I guess the ratio of nutball to sensible conservative isn’t 1:1, but closer to 3:1. And that’s really unfortunate. The silver lining is that the split falls largely on generational lines, so things should get better. I mean, once my grandmother’s generation dies, the country will be 50% less racist. That’s something, right?

    Admit it- the questions were fine, and this is just another one of Malkin’s ginned up non-controversies

    The questions were fine, and I said as much in the comments to the previous post on the issue. I am merely addressing your assertion that this “IS the current Republican party.”

  10. 10.

    Pb

    November 29, 2007 at 11:57 am

    Malkin is foaming at the mouth over all the ‘plants’ at the debate. Because, you know, surely everyone asking questions at the Democratic YouTube debate was a Democrat, right? As far as I know, there wasn’t a test, but Malkin apparently wants to engage in yet more manufactured outragecitizen journalism…

  11. 11.

    Jen

    November 29, 2007 at 12:00 pm

    The silver lining is that the split falls largely on generational lines, so things should get better. I mean, once my grandmother’s generation dies, the country will be 50% less racist. That’s something, right?

    Well, Krugman takes this as evidence that the R party will actually wither and die as an increasingly irrelevant vestige less enlightened thinking. I’m paraphrasing, haven’t finished the book yet. Sounds like a silver lining to me!

  12. 12.

    zzyzx

    November 29, 2007 at 12:01 pm

    NRO on the questions:

    I am impressed by the questions. If they are representative, then the GOP base is concerned with the right things: immigration, taxes and spending.

    Just thought I’d mention that.

    Then again, don’t forget Red State saying that religious beliefs are important

    Note to Rudy: We change for God, God and his word do not change for us.

    Also, you’ve killed yourself on the abortion issue. I will not, cannot, shall not vote for you in the primary based on your abortion answer. Review Mitt or Fred’s answers and repeat until you believe.

    Oh, and mock me if you will, but I do not question the account of Jonah and the Whale. You know, Mayor, Faith ain’t just a woman’s name.

  13. 13.

    cleek

    November 29, 2007 at 12:03 pm

    anyone know how to register to comment at Malkin’s hate site ?

  14. 14.

    Billy K

    November 29, 2007 at 12:07 pm

    … a vaguely threatening parade of gun fetishists, flat worlders, Mars Explorers, Confederate flag lovers and zombie-eyed-Bible-wavers as well as various one issue activists…

    You know, the GOP has been about this crap for a long time now. It’s recently become more blatant, more transparent, but this is who they’ve been as long as I’ve been politically aware (first voted for Dukakis). This attempt to make this wingnuttery out to be a recent thing is disingenuous.

    After the GOP loses everything in 2008 and they reinvent themselves for 2010/2012 as, um…compassionate conservatives*, keep in mind they’re still the same mouth-breathers. They’ve just gone back to hiding it.

    *I think that’s taken. They’ll come up with something, I’m sure. They’re very good at slogans.

  15. 15.

    theRisingJurist

    November 29, 2007 at 12:08 pm

    Well, Krugman takes this as evidence that the R party will actually wither and die as an increasingly irrelevant vestige less enlightened thinking.

    That’s entirely possible. I always make a point to distinguish between being conservative and being a Republican. That might seem an academic point, but my conservative philosophies alone cannot nominally ally me with the party. I eagerly await whatever alternative develops.

  16. 16.

    John Cole

    November 29, 2007 at 12:09 pm

    anyone know how to register to comment at Malkin’s hate site ?

    No idea, but there is probably a loyalty oath.

  17. 17.

    Cindrella Ferret

    November 29, 2007 at 12:11 pm

    The retired Brigadier General may not have been a plant but he is in fact linked to HRC a member of LGBT Americans for Hillary.
    As I stated, this does not prove he was a plant, but it doesn’t look good. This is what he has to say about it. Read bullet point #2. I blame CNN. But who knows for sure? If nothing else it shows you how prepared establishment journalism is to actually conduct a presidential “debate.”

  18. 18.

    Cindrella Ferret

    November 29, 2007 at 12:14 pm

    anyone know how to register to comment at Malkin’s hate site ?

    No idea, but there is probably a loyalty oath.

    I believe you have to make a video of yourself dressed as a cheerleader, saying something nice about the Former Cheerleader.

  19. 19.

    b-psycho

    November 29, 2007 at 12:18 pm

    Re: that general: did the wingnuts ever consider that their hostility to gays, both in combat and elsewhere, was key to him supporting a Dem instead of them in the first place?

  20. 20.

    Pb

    November 29, 2007 at 12:18 pm

    Cindrella Ferret,

    What’s the problem? As I said before, do you think that all the questioners at the first Democratic YouTube Debate on CNN were Democrats? Was there any stipulation that they should be? Oh noes, Republican candidates for President got asked questions by Americans on teh TV too, quick, someone call the authorities! Pfft.

  21. 21.

    The Mechanical Eye

    November 29, 2007 at 12:19 pm

    Oh, and mock me if you will, but I do not question the account of Jonah and the Whale. You know, Mayor, Faith ain’t just a woman’s name.

    What a strange thing to stand on, if you’re going to argue about biblical literalism.

    As it turns out, believing that a whale swallowed anyone is truly an act of great faith — in the actual passage in the Bible, there’s no mention of a whale, it’s a fish. Popular re-tellings insert the whale, because it made more “sense,” or as George Orwell thought, it made for a more comforting myth for adults as some kind of Freudian fantasy to return to the womb (link)

    Like so many other literalists, this person only thinks they know what’s in the Bible through popular re-tellings. They never actually open up that book to get to the parts about how to sell one’s daughter into slavery or when God is pleased when you slaughter an entire encampment of unsuspecting non-Chosen People.

    DU

  22. 22.

    John Cole

    November 29, 2007 at 12:24 pm

    The retired Brigadier General may not have been a plant but he is in fact linked to HRC a member of LGBT Americans for Hillary.

    There is n evidence ANYONE was a plant, unless you are using the word “plant” incorrectly like the nutter right, which is to mean “anyone they did not screen out to my liking.”

    CNN didn’t plant anyone. It wasn’t against the rules for non-RNC bootlickers to ask questions. There were no plants.

    Re: that general: did the wingnuts ever consider that their hostility to gays, both in combat and elsewhere, was key to him supporting a Dem instead of them in the first place?

    No screaming eagle shit, ehh? I guess the crowd boos were part of the RNC gay outreach.

    The reason these folks are hysterical is because the country got a good solid eyeball at what the current GOP looks like. That won’t help the GOP.

  23. 23.

    jrg

    November 29, 2007 at 12:29 pm

    PS- Doesn’t the fact that a retired gay General scared the living shit out of the blogosphere’s bravest and brightest conservative stalwarts make the case for gays in the military? I mean, if you can make the Keyboard Commandos cringe, imagine what you can do to less hardy souls like Iraqi insurgents?

    Brilliant. I’ll be watching the Commie News Network looking for this oh-so-partisan fox-news-like line of reasoning.

    So, a good night for for the lowest denominator, a bad night for the GOP.

    Possession is 9/10ths of the law, bitches.

  24. 24.

    Tsulagi

    November 29, 2007 at 12:31 pm

    Oh noes, Republican candidates for President got asked questions by Americans on teh TV too, quick, someone call the authorities!

    I await Uncle Jimbo to announce he’s written a stern, manly letter of condemnation to the authorities demanding a full investigation.

  25. 25.

    D-Chance.

    November 29, 2007 at 12:33 pm

    PS- Doesn’t the fact that a retired gay General scared the living shit out of the blogosphere’s bravest and brightest conservative stalwarts make the case for gays in the military? I mean, if you can make the Keyboard Commandos cringe, imagine what you can do to less hardy souls like Iraqi insurgents?

    That has baffled me, going all the way back to pre-DADT days. The public is told and assured that our soldiers are the elite fighting machine of the world. They can suffer through all injury, fight through any adversity in any combat arena, and come out victorious. They are physically, mentally, emotionally superior to any other soldier on this planet.

    But, oh my god, don’t put them near a homosexual… because that would just DESTROY them? WTF???

  26. 26.

    Cyrus

    November 29, 2007 at 12:47 pm

    Actually, doing the math on the Republicans I am well-acquainted with, I guess the ratio of nutball to sensible conservative isn’t 1:1, but closer to 3:1.

    I can believe that about registered Republicans, sure. Maybe the ratio is even more like 2:1. But is “registered Republicans” the important measure? What about likely voter Republicans? (My guess: 3:1 at the very least.) Or politically active Republicans, or elected Republicans? (Well, if the “nutball” category doesn’t include craven and ineffective opportunists, then in the Senate, there’s Specter, McCain, Snowe, Collins, Hagel… 10:1.)

  27. 27.

    jcricket

    November 29, 2007 at 12:53 pm

    The reason these folks are hysterical is because the country got a good solid eyeball at what the current GOP looks like. That won’t help the GOP.

    The GOP is basically the anti-Hillary, and they project their fears on to her. I’m not a huge Hillary lover (serious), but one of the things she has going for her is that the more people get to know her, the more popular she becomes.

    The right-wing, apparently with the exception of Huckabee (likable but still crazy), has the opposite problem. I fully expect any Republican nominee from this field to find themselves in a world of hurt once the American public gets wind of what they stand for.

    Scandals a blowin for Rudy, Fred’s toast. Romney’s going to pander to the right like there’s no tomorrow, Huckabee’s a true bible thumper + big spender.

  28. 28.

    Zifnab

    November 29, 2007 at 12:57 pm

    Do you have any idea how insane this sounds? From a practical standpoint, how was CNN supposed to get questions that represent what the WHOLE party thinks when the candidates themselves all differ on the issues to varying degrees.

    You’re not. Hence the easy bait for Stalkin Malkin and the Outrage Sisters. If every question doesn’t make every listener happy, then clearly CNN was overwhelmingly biased.

    Did you see the group of undecideds after the debate?

    Q: Who will you vote for now?

    A: John Edwards

    Priceless…

    Easily the highlight of the debate.

  29. 29.

    jcricket

    November 29, 2007 at 12:59 pm

    But, oh my god, don’t put them near a homosexual… because that would just DESTROY them? WTF???

    It’s projection. It’s all fucking projection.

    The 101st fighting keyboardists are afraid of gays and quiver when one walks nearby, so our military will be similarly cowed (despite gays serving openly in the Israeli and Australian armies – and others).

    So to with pretty much anything they claim. Just apply what they’re saying about anyone to themselves and you have the truth.

  30. 30.

    Jen

    November 29, 2007 at 1:03 pm

    The right-wing, apparently with the exception of Huckabee (likable but still crazy), has the opposite problem. I fully expect any Republican nominee from this field to find themselves in a world of hurt once the American public gets wind of what they stand for.

    That is very true. Especially for Guiliani, I think, the more I learn about him the nastier a piece of work he seems to be. Plus they seem to have the idea that their talking points are actually priorities for American voters instead of things the voters keep telling them are their priorities. It just doesn’t seem smart to me when so many people are going without health care and getting really fed up about it to just go on about “Hillarycare” — at least she’s got a plan, what are you going to do about it?

    Sorry, I got off topic, the topic being the fundamental unfairness of having to answer questions by non-Republicans who were not disclosed as being non-Republicans. I just like to note, for the absurdity of it, that that is the issue.

  31. 31.

    Bubblegum Tate

    November 29, 2007 at 1:06 pm

    Mars exploration (I think the hardest one to link to the GOP)

    Mark Noonan’s got you covered here: If we explore Mars and find life there, then that is absolutely undeniable proof of the existence of God!

  32. 32.

    Dug Jay

    November 29, 2007 at 1:23 pm

    Ace makes a similar point re the next Democratic debate::

    But if that’s the name of the game, let me suggest to CNN that they allow a paralyzed veteran with limbs missing due to an IED attack similarly grill the Democratic candidates on whether they support the Democratic Congress’ determination to choke off all monies needed for the military’s anti-IED program. Give him the mic, live, and let him harangue the Democrats on the viciousness of IEDs, and the viciousness of them putting soldiers’ lives, and limbs, in jeopardy to appease their netroots base.

    It’s easy to anticipate part of the response (which is really not a respose at all…just more BDS in action) from this crowd, namely, the poor guy is paralyzed and missing his limbs because those awful Bush/Hitler fools sent him to Iraq in the first place.

  33. 33.

    libarbarian

    November 29, 2007 at 1:36 pm

    The 101st fighting keyboardists are afraid of gays

    The only reason these guys are afraid of being in a fox hole with a gay man is that that they know they would be tempted to ignore their duty and make a-sexy-time.

  34. 34.

    Billy K

    November 29, 2007 at 1:39 pm

    It’s easy to anticipate part of the response (which is really not a respose at all…just more BDS in action) from this crowd, namely, the poor guy is paralyzed and missing his limbs because those awful Bush/Hitler fools sent him to Iraq in the first place.

    Seriously… “I support cutting off all funding necessary to keep soldiers in danger in Iraq.” Next question?

    There are no difficult questions regarding Iraq unless you’re a frightened Democrat who doesn’t believe that 66-75% of the country wants out. The answer is, always was and forever shall be, “I’ll get us out.”

  35. 35.

    Perry Como

    November 29, 2007 at 2:03 pm

    But, oh my god, don’t put them near a homosexual… because that would just DESTROY them? WTF???

    Electorate: This is madness!
    Erick: THIS. IS. REDSTATE!

  36. 36.

    Fe E

    November 29, 2007 at 2:46 pm

    Mark Noonan’s got you covered here: If we explore Mars and find life there, then that is absolutely undeniable proof of the existence of God!

    Say what now? Could you give me a link, please? I bet that piece of writing is absolutely hy-freaking-sterical.

  37. 37.

    boctaoe

    November 29, 2007 at 2:58 pm

    Just glanced at some comments at Redstate.(I can’t comment, cause I’m banned ,,Ta Dah) and boy are they whining about mean unfair CNN and the planted question, the one planted question and how they are never going to watch CNN again. Geesch!!!

  38. 38.

    demimondian

    November 29, 2007 at 3:17 pm

    Oh, it’s really easy. If we search another world and find no life, it’s proof that God exists because our uniqueness shows that He considers us special. If we search another world, and find no life, it’s proof that God exists because it would be vanishingly improbable that life would independently evolve in more than one place.

  39. 39.

    Dulcie

    November 29, 2007 at 3:36 pm

    The 101st fighting keyboardists are afraid of gays and quiver when one walks nearby, so our military will be similarly cowed (despite gays serving openly in the Israeli and Australian armies – and others).

    Sometimes I think we would’ve been better off if the US had started as a penal colony instead as a haven for religious fundies.

  40. 40.

    Illuminancer

    November 29, 2007 at 3:39 pm

    The only reason these guys are afraid of being in a fox hole with a gay man is that that they know they would be tempted to ignore their duty and make a-sexy-time.

    Nah, they’re afraid, deep down, they they’d end up in a foxhole with a gay man who’d look at them and say, “No thanks–I’d chew off my own leg before having sex with you, because, BLECH!”

  41. 41.

    jcricket

    November 29, 2007 at 4:00 pm

    Sometimes I think we would’ve been better off if the US had started as a penal colony instead as a haven for religious fundies.

    Sad but true. Plus we’d have cool accents and funny sports.

  42. 42.

    Dreggas

    November 29, 2007 at 4:22 pm

    demimondian Says:

    Oh, it’s really easy. If we search another world and find no life, it’s proof that God exists because our uniqueness shows that He considers us special. If we search another world, and find no life, it’s proof that God exists because it would be vanishingly improbable that life would independently evolve in more than one place.

    Shhh….don’t tell him that there is evidence life on earth started on mars, at least theoretically.

  43. 43.

    binzinerator

    November 29, 2007 at 5:07 pm

    theRisingJurist:

    I am merely addressing your assertion that this “IS the current Republican party.”

    I must be misunderstanding something. You seem to be saying the questions asked didn’t represent the current GOP, that you disagree with Cole’s assertion that this the current Republican party.

    But when you state: “I guess the ratio of nutball to sensible conservative isn’t 1:1, but closer to 3:1…” you’ve just confirmed Cole’s assertion.

    If for every sensible conservative there are 3 nutballs, by your own estimation 75% of the current Republican party are nutters. So the nutters are not just fairly represented in the Republican party, they in fact constitute a supermajority. They ARE the party.

    So I must’ve missed something. What did I misread? Am I erroneously equating conservatives with Republicans?

    But if that’s so, it makes it even harder to say with a straight face — it means the GOP would have to be made up of a disproportionate number of the remaining sensible conservatives. In other words, only 25% of conservatives aren’t nutballs, but — whew! — fortunately the Republican Party is mostly made up of that level-headed 25%.

    Were you intending to dispute what Cole said or are you agreeing with it?

  44. 44.

    Nancy Irving

    November 30, 2007 at 3:43 am

    The premise of this whole “controversy” is that the Republican field came out looking pretty bad in this debate.

    Leave it at that.

  45. 45.

    John

    November 30, 2007 at 6:29 pm

    Wasn’t there a very pro-gun question at the Democratic YouTube debate? The guy who asked it did not strike me as someone who was very likely to vote for any Democrat. Not that an NRA supporter couldn’t vote Democrat, but it seemed like guns were a very big part of his life and he had just enough nuttiness about him that I assumed he had to be a Republican.

    I have to say it irritated me. Maybe there are some Democrats who are really interested in the candidates position on gun control. But after some other questions which seemed to prop up rightwing talking points, it seemed to me the people in charge were picking questions for gotcha value. And there were plenty of videos asking questions that progressives would be interested in hearing the answers to that didn’t get asked because of this.

    So I can kind of see the irritation on the right about this. I mean I can assume someone from the right wanting to make sure the candidate(s) they support would under no circumstances permit that gay people contribute to this society asking the question the Democrat supporter did. But it wasn’t. It was someone who probably wouldn’t vote for any of the candidates, even if one of them had actually answered that gay people should be able to serve.

  46. 46.

    Strypgia

    December 1, 2007 at 1:37 am

    So, a good night for for the lowest denominator, a bad night for the GOP. America got to see a vaguely threatening parade of gun fetishists, flat worlders, Mars Explorers, Confederate flag lovers and zombie-eyed-Bible-wavers as well as various one issue activists hammering their pet causes.

    Until I started reading the comments, I assumed he was referring to the candidates, since that seems to be fair description of the current slate of GOP hopefuls. Is that wrong of me?

  47. 47.

    theRisingJurist

    December 13, 2007 at 1:16 pm

    Were you intending to dispute what Cole said or are you agreeing with it?

    Well, I was addressing his assertion that the nutballs represent the whole party, and pointing out that there is a sensible faction of party. So while the questions weren’t from the fringe, they weren’t completely representative either. So I guess I half-agree with him?

    Am I erroneously equating conservatives with Republicans?

    And yes. I am the former, but do not generally call myself the latter.

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