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You are here: Home / Politics / Credit Where Credit’s Not Due

Credit Where Credit’s Not Due

by Michael D.|  December 5, 200711:24 am| 75 Comments

This post is in: Politics, Republican Stupidity, War on Terror aka GSAVE®

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U.S. News:

Bush said the new intel “contradicting earlier US assessments…would not prompt him to take off the table the possibility of pre-emptive military action against Iran.”

That’s not news – as anyone who listened to or read anything since yesterday knows. What’s mind-boggling to me is how stupid this president obviously believes his subjects are [well, half of them anyway(and he’s unfortunately right.)] According to the president, the report indicates that the so-called “diplomatic-pressure” he has put on Iran has worked. He’s even got the gall to imply that America has led an international diplomatic effort that is succeeding, when nothing could be further from the truth.

Correct me if I am wrong, but is this not the same president who, when the European Union sat down to negotiate with Iran, opposed it from the start and refused to take part?

European nations would like the United States to join talks with Iran — now involving Germany, France and Britain — by offering Tehran security and economic guarantees in exchange for abandoning its nuclear ambitions. The Bush administration has refused to participate in the talks.

So, Mr. President, don’t tell me America led anything here. The audacity of his statement taking credit for the shift in Iran is astonishing. That those on the right trumpet it speaks more to their intelligence and analytical abilities than anything. Of course, those are the same folks who probably believe that this Q&A from yesterday’s news conference is a stunning takedown of a mainstream journalist, when all it proves is that thepresident hasn’t got a clue what he’s talking about, and most likely has not even read the report’s executive summary:

Q. Why should you trust this intelligence more than the intelligence of 2005?

Bush: Without getting into sources and methods, I believe the intelligence community has made a great discovery… and uhhh… they’ve analyzed the discovery, and it’s …uhhh… now part of our government policy.

WTF does that even mean, and how does it answer the question? If I’m hearing this right, he’s saying, “The intelligence community has discovered that Iran is not pursuing nukular weapons. They’ve analyzed this discovery, and now it’s part of our government policy – which, by the way, will not change.”

**Update: The Pentagon is HAPPY about the NIE, according to Time.

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75Comments

  1. 1.

    Zifnab

    December 5, 2007 at 11:29 am

    WTF does that even mean, and how does it answer the question? If I’m hearing this right, he’s saying, “The intelligence community has discovered that Iran is not pursuing nukular weapons. They’ve analyzed this discovery, and now it’s part of our government policy – which, by the way, will not change.”

    That about nails it. The Bush policy is to Bomb Iran. White House Officials will take this new and useful information and incorporate it into their continued plans to Bomb Iran. Give those Neo-Cons credit for having a vision and seeing it through.

  2. 2.

    cleek

    December 5, 2007 at 11:34 am

    The audacity of his statement taking credit for the shift in Iran is astonishing.

    it doesn’t take much audacity to lie when you know nobody is going to call you on it – a fact Bush probably learned from his little turd blossom.

  3. 3.

    Poopyman

    December 5, 2007 at 11:36 am

    I think you too are giving credit where credit’s not due.

    Yes, Shrub thinks/hopes nobody notices he’s lying. Trouble is, that’s only going to be people dumber than he is, and that’s going to be his fellow occupants on the left side of the bell curve, if you catch my drift.

    Political smarts can take you a long way (along with handouts from Daddy’s friends), but it can’t wash the stupid away.

    Sigh. Still have 13 months….

  4. 4.

    Michael D.

    December 5, 2007 at 11:36 am

    The problem is, of course, you and me – because we have such a short fucking attention span these days that we collectively just go for the sound bite and don’t figure we have to remember anything that happened in 2005. Bush knows this.

    Added: That’s the difference between smart and being unethical. President Bush is smart.

    Smart: Knowing you can do whatever you want because most people could care less or don’t pay attention.
    Unethical: Doing it.

  5. 5.

    Jake

    December 5, 2007 at 11:37 am

    He’s even got the gall to imply that America has led an international diplomatic effort that is succeeding, when nothing could be further from the truth.

    BushCo SOP. If anything anywhere happens that might be seen as positive, Bush leaps into his flight suit and does a victory strut. Remember when Britian disrupted the plot to blow up airplanes? I’m sure Scotland Yard etc were shocked to learn that the U.S. somehow had a hand in the matter, but to listen to the statements issued by this Admin. we did most of the work while the Brits ate fish & chips.

    “The intelligence community has discovered that Iran is not pursuing nukular weapons. They’ve analyzed this discovery, and now it’s part of our government policy – which, by the way, will not change.”

    Lemme translate for you: “Stay the course!”

  6. 6.

    Cindrella Ferret

    December 5, 2007 at 11:50 am

    The audacity of his statement taking credit for the shift in Iran is astonishing.

    No more astonishing than claiming he had political capital after the 2004 election. You know, the political capital for his Social Security Tour in 2005. The one that got him a free ride on Air Force and the opportunity to stand in front of crowds of kool-aid drinking sycophants and deadenders to talk about something that was NOT going to happen. All this while attempting to speak the English language.

    Nothing astonishes me about the shamelessness and outright fantastical thinking that emanates from the Former Cheerleader and his gang of War Criminals. Nothing.

    I am looking forward to the day when someone posts video of NPod’s head exploding during a TV appearance. Have the neocons ever been right about anything? Ever?

  7. 7.

    tBone

    December 5, 2007 at 12:13 pm

    The audacity of his statement taking credit for the shift in Iran is astonishing.

    Astonishing to clueless moonbats, maybe. Objective reality is so pre-911. We’re in a brave new world now, bitches! History is whatever the Deciderator says it is.

  8. 8.

    Cassidy

    December 5, 2007 at 12:15 pm

    But, but, but…Gore claimed to invent the internet!

    (sorry, couldn’t help it)

  9. 9.

    Peter Johnson

    December 5, 2007 at 12:18 pm

    You’d do well to remember that this is just one report from an agency whose reports — as you would all be the first to admit, I’m sure — have been notoriously unreliable in recent years.

    The Iranians could easily conceal their activities. This could be a classic Trojan horse ploy on their part. But, hey, don’t listen to me, listen to your new ally in the war on terror Ahmadinejad.

  10. 10.

    Svensker

    December 5, 2007 at 12:29 pm

    Peter Johnson Says:

    You’d do well to remember that this is just one report from an agency whose reports—as you would all be the first to admit, I’m sure—have been notoriously unreliable in recent years.

    The Iranians could easily conceal their activities. This could be a classic Trojan horse ploy on their part.

    You’re not really real, are you? You’re just making this stuff up for fun, right?

    Even Joe Scarborough is saying Bush is either a liar, or stupid. To which I say, why not both?

  11. 11.

    Wilfred

    December 5, 2007 at 12:32 pm

    This could be a classic Trojan horse ploy on their part

    What? Now they’ve infiltrated every branch of the American intelligence community in order to fabricate a false report?

    PJ’s a good example of both possibilities regarding Bush:

    A) He really is crazy, so every new contradictory fact simply gets installed in the ever-expanding, schizoid cloud cuckooland of what has come to be known as Bush’s mentality;

    B) His administration is like a nascent church, inventing more and more narrative to cover all the contradictory tracks left over from their previous gas-baggery nonsense. His followers, Assrocket et al. periodically show some doubts, only to be reassured that like the souls of unbaptized children that got sent to Limbo, the brain kernels of remaining Bush believers go on to Dumbo, where they are spoon fed explanations about why what they were promised was true was, in fact, a lie. WMD, anybody?

  12. 12.

    Zifnab

    December 5, 2007 at 12:34 pm

    You’d do well to remember that this is just one report from an agency whose reports—as you would all be the first to admit, I’m sure—have been notoriously unreliable in recent years.

    So, what are you saying Peter? That they are wrong about not having information regarding Iran’s nuclear weapons program? Are you suggesting that Iran has a program the NIE doesn’t reveal or that the NIE is too unreliable to predict the (non-)existence of WMD programs?

    If you think the NIE is wrong, and there is evidence to the contrary (aluminum tubes! roving weapons stations! Curveball!) lets hear it. Otherwise, it seems like your argument boils down to “The Absence of Evidence is not the Evidence of Absence!”

  13. 13.

    wasabi gasp

    December 5, 2007 at 12:35 pm

    Once you get on Santa George’s naughty list, you never get off.

    Don’t stand to close to the chimney.

  14. 14.

    Jen

    December 5, 2007 at 12:35 pm

    The hubby was getting irate with yesterday’s Newsweek, about 2 paragraphs into a story on Robert Gates, for portraying Gates as a smart guy and a uniter and pro-diplomacy and all that, which he may well be, but then making the logical leap that this will somehow prevent war with Iran, *as if* Bush is somehow going to let something like his Secretary of Defense affect his policy of bombing Iran.

  15. 15.

    Seanly

    December 5, 2007 at 12:43 pm

    We’ve always been at war with Eastasia err Iraq umm Iran.

    There was actually a time* when I wondered if major players in the Bush Administration weren’t actually Iranian plants themselves. At the time, everything they did WRT the Middle East strengthened the Iranian position.

    * Normally, I am very rational so I was either reading too much news or high from huffing spray paint cans.

  16. 16.

    lutton

    December 5, 2007 at 12:47 pm

    The facts as we see them. The surge is working. Stem cell breakthrough. I’m not gay. …preserve, protect and defend the Constitution… We know where they are. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat

    What else is new?

  17. 17.

    Peter Johnson

    December 5, 2007 at 12:48 pm

    Are you suggesting that Iran has a program the NIE doesn’t reveal or that the NIE is too unreliable to predict the (non-)existence of WMD programs?

    The latter. I doubt the NIE is deliberately lying. The timing is suspicious, but I think they probably believe what they are saying.

  18. 18.

    lutton

    December 5, 2007 at 12:49 pm

    They’re not trying to outwit us…they’re trying to ‘out-dumb’ us.

  19. 19.

    Michael D.

    December 5, 2007 at 12:56 pm

    You’d do well to remember that this is just one report from an agency whose reports—as you would all be the first to admit, I’m sure—have been notoriously unreliable in recent years.

    My understanding is that, with only two exceptions, this is the consensus of the entire intelligence community.

  20. 20.

    LITBMueller

    December 5, 2007 at 12:56 pm

    Don’t worry, Peter – this administration has never really given two shit what the CIA says. They get their intelligence talking points from the military and their own intelligence people, as well as the Iran shop set up in Dept. of State.

    Speaking of which, you also should be excited that the Neocon’s Neocon, the man who singlehandedly got himself fired from a plum appointment at the World Bank because he’s either horny or pussy whipped, is returning to the Dept. of State: WOLFIE!

    Everything’s going to be OK…we’re still gonna “bomb bomb bomb Iran” cuz a lot of people are makin’ a lot of money off of blowin’ shit up… phew!

  21. 21.

    Dreggas

    December 5, 2007 at 12:57 pm

    I just had a really disturbing thought. One of the modus operandi’s of this admin has been making agencies and such appear not to work…period…as such the CIA gave them intel saying Iraq had WMD (of course at the admin’s urging) even when they had plenty of evidence suggesting completely the opposite. Also remember the NIE on Iraq that was released said they had the weapons.

    Now we get an NIE on Iran saying they don’t have the weapons and that Iran stopped it’s programs. The drumbeat from the admin is most likely going to be exactly what PJ said, which is basically “since we know they got it wrong on Iraq why should we believe them when they say this about Iran?”. It’s rope-a-dope type stuff.

    In their world the CIA is so discredited (and by their world I mean greater wingnuttia) that they could release this report, say it might not be right based on the track record of the CIA and sadly quite a few people would believe them.

    Remember, one of the goals of these people was destroying the CIA. They despise the CIA and have always claimed it was staffed by liberals blah-blah-blah. The most likely reason for this? The CIA provides the antidote to their fevered delusions of the most dangerous world evah!

  22. 22.

    heywood jablomy

    December 5, 2007 at 1:05 pm

    I think Peter and his team need to get out the sandbox and some milk straws and firecrackers and disprove the NIE on Iran. Has anyone checked the fonts on their “report” …? I hear they are using ARABIC NUMERALS. Have at it, Peter. Clearly you know more that the entire un-precooked intelligence community.

    Keep in mind that there is nothing else the Bushists can do other than say the report means they are right. Would you really expect anything else? If aliens landed tomorrow they would say they were right about illegal immigration.

    It’s what they do. Stop being surprised already. In fact, they took a whole day to give their top BS artists time to rally some talking points before the Bush presser. We are dealing here with legendary levels of corruption.

  23. 23.

    libarbarian

    December 5, 2007 at 1:10 pm

    The Iranians could easily conceal their activities. This could be a classic Trojan horse ploy on their part. But, hey, don’t listen to me, listen to your new ally in the war on terror Ahmadinejad. -Peter

    LOL. Translation:”Iranians only lie in their actions but never in words”.

    You wave off the complete lack of evidence of hostile actions as a “trojan horse” deception designed to conceal their true intentions but uncritically accept their hostile words as if it never crossed your mind that their words might be deceptions (say to distract a domestic audience from their political and economic troubles) too.

    P.S.
    On a related note: Peter, I’m the son of the deposed Nigerian king and I need you to give me you bank account number so I can temporarily deposit some money in your account. I promise you I will give you $100,000 for your help. I trust that you will not insult me by believing my words less than those of a man you consider to be a psychotic and irrational whackjob. Please send the information to me a you_naive_douche@learn_something.com. Thank you.

  24. 24.

    Tony J

    December 5, 2007 at 1:15 pm

    Remember back in 2005 when the wingnuts were so scathingly dismissive of the NIE that claimed Iran was pursuing nuclear weapons that the reality-based lifeforms here had to find something else to do for a couple of months?

    They were all like “Pppfff, oh yeah? Like we’re gonna trust you losers after you fucked up the 2002 NIE and tricked Our President into thinking Iraq had WMD. I pity you fools. Get back to school, suckers!” And we were all like “Uh, yeah, what Darrell said. Anyone wanna play WoW?”

    Good days.

  25. 25.

    r€nato

    December 5, 2007 at 1:17 pm

    WTF does that even mean, and how does it answer the question?

    dude… come on. At least half the time he rambles incoherently because if it ain’t on his talking points for the day, he doesn’t know shit about it and he sure isn’t bright enough/articulate enough to wing it without sounding like the utter moron that he is.

  26. 26.

    Zifnab

    December 5, 2007 at 1:18 pm

    Are you suggesting that Iran has a program the NIE doesn’t reveal or that the NIE is too unreliable to predict the (non-)existence of WMD programs?

    The latter. I doubt the NIE is deliberately lying. The timing is suspicious, but I think they probably believe what they are saying.

    This then begs the question. Who do you go for when you want to know whether or not Iran has or plans to make WMDs? All 16 intelligence agencies have now been deemed too unreliable to trust.

    This also raises the questions, why are we paying 16 different intelligence agencies to gather data for us if we don’t believe any of it?

  27. 27.

    r€nato

    December 5, 2007 at 1:20 pm

    You’d do well to remember that this is just one report from an agency whose reports—as you would all be the first to admit, I’m sure—have been notoriously unreliable in recent years.

    Actually it is the consensus of 16 – count ’em, sixteen – different intelligence agencies or departments.

    The Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy sure is deeply entrenched in the Bush Administration.

  28. 28.

    r€nato

    December 5, 2007 at 1:25 pm

    Otherwise, it seems like your argument boils down to “The Absence of Evidence is not the Evidence of Absence!”

    in the run-up to the Iraq war, during the inspections process, Cheney actually said [paraphrasing], “The fact that UN inspectors can’t find Saddam’s WMDs, is proof that they exist and he is hiding them!”

    That millions of people did not bust a gut laughing at this idiocy, is proof of the power of groupthink as well as Cheney’s utter contempt for the intelligence of the average American.

  29. 29.

    Dennis - SGMM

    December 5, 2007 at 1:31 pm

    If the agencies that produced this report are still unreliable then that means that Bush has done nothing to improve the reliability of our intelligence gathering apparatus since we went to war – supposedly on the basis of faulty intelligence.

    So, which is it to be:
    The intelligence is unreliable and it’s Bush’s fault for doing nothing about making it more reliable?

    Or:
    The intelligence is reliable and Bush has been lying about Iran’s nuclear weapons program?

  30. 30.

    Ed Drone

    December 5, 2007 at 1:43 pm

    “They’re not trying to outwit us…they’re trying to ‘out-dumb’ us.”

    No, They’re not trying to outwit us…they’re trying to ‘out-twit’ us.

    Simple, once you know how.

    Ed

  31. 31.

    over_educated

    December 5, 2007 at 1:49 pm

    My prediction: The chances are greater than ever we will bomb Iran. Why? Because if there is one thing this President will not cotton is being shown unambiguously how wrong-headed his policies are, and if a lot of people have to die so he can show that he can do whatever the fuck he wants because he is the President-Of-The-United-States-MoFo!!! then, so be it.

  32. 32.

    Tony J

    December 5, 2007 at 2:02 pm

    For the record, PJ’s spoofiness has to be a no-brainer after he brilliantly shows us how junk-kickingly funny it would be if a real wingnut tried coming at you with any variation on the argument that, no, really, being wrong about something in the past, in their eyes at least, actually does have some influence on how credible they think that person or institution might be at any given time.

    I mean, could you imagine that?

    Funny, funny stuff. Ahhh, this is a good day.

  33. 33.

    Jake

    December 5, 2007 at 2:12 pm

    WTF does that even mean,

    That something interfered with the transmission between Cheney’s walkie talkie and the wire in Bush’s ear.

  34. 34.

    Cybershaman

    December 5, 2007 at 2:41 pm

    Taking credit for things they had nothing to do with is SOP for the GOP. Remember “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!”? It’s a long established tactic.

  35. 35.

    Peter Johnson

    December 5, 2007 at 2:44 pm

    My understanding is that, with only two exceptions, this is the consensus of the entire intelligence community.

    I would describe it more as a snapshot of their thinking at a particular time. As more evidence comes to light, that snapshot could easily change. This report is by no means conclusive and no one at the NIE is claiming that it is, in fact.

  36. 36.

    cleek

    December 5, 2007 at 2:49 pm

    That millions of people did not bust a gut laughing at this idiocy, is proof of the power of groupthink as well as Cheney’s utter contempt for accurate estimation of the intelligence of the average American.

  37. 37.

    kchiker

    December 5, 2007 at 2:54 pm

    So when Bush implies that the NIE actually increases the need to…uh…”scrutinize” Iran, I kindof wonder if the equation isn’t something like this:

    Bombability = ((100 – the percent chance of nuclear retaliation) ^ remaining oil reserves)

    The lower the chance of nuclear retaliation, the MUCH more appealing target they become.

  38. 38.

    libarbarian

    December 5, 2007 at 2:59 pm

    Well I knew it. We just emboldened Iran.

  39. 39.

    HyperIon

    December 5, 2007 at 3:05 pm

    That millions of people did not bust a gut laughing at this idiocy, is proof of the power of groupthink as well as Cheney’s utter contempt for the intelligence of the average American.

    These days I have contempt for the intelligence of the average American. Cheney is a power hungry asshole. Pray tell, what is the excuse of the average American?

  40. 40.

    Chris Johnson

    December 5, 2007 at 3:07 pm

    …would not prompt him to take off the table the possibility of pre-emptive military action against Iran.

    I have to say this really does piss me off. Who does he think he is?

  41. 41.

    canuckistani

    December 5, 2007 at 3:09 pm

    Well I knew it. We just emboldened Iran.

    Iran is laughing at you, America. LAUGHING AT YOU. Go on, Spike, show them who’s boss.

  42. 42.

    Dreggas

    December 5, 2007 at 3:17 pm

    Peter Johnson Says:

    My understanding is that, with only two exceptions, this is the consensus of the entire intelligence community.

    I would describe it more as a snapshot of their thinking at a particular time. As more evidence comes to light, that snapshot could easily change. This report is by no means conclusive and no one at the NIE is claiming that it is, in fact.

    Get your talking points straight junior (or more to the point your acronyms) the NIE is a document, not an agency and it concludes Iran shut down it’s bomb research a while ago and nothing has since changed.

  43. 43.

    Dreggas

    December 5, 2007 at 3:19 pm

    HyperIon Says:

    That millions of people did not bust a gut laughing at this idiocy, is proof of the power of groupthink as well as Cheney’s utter contempt for the intelligence of the average American.

    These days I have contempt for the intelligence of the average American. Cheney is a power hungry asshole. Pray tell, what is the excuse of the average American?

    First, glad I am not average.

    Second I think either A. they wanna have a beer with the guy or B. they don’t want to be shot in the face.

  44. 44.

    libarbarian

    December 5, 2007 at 3:19 pm

    Iran is laughing at you, America. LAUGHING AT YOU. Go on, Spike, show them who’s boss.

    They can build all the nukes they want, but when they imply that American Men have small dicks … well then its time for WAR!!!!!

  45. 45.

    Peter Johnson

    December 5, 2007 at 3:21 pm

    it concludes Iran shut down it’s bomb research a while ago and nothing has since changed.

    It’s a finding, not a definite conclusion. Rule 1 of intelligence: there are no definite conclusions. If you knew anything about intelligence work….

  46. 46.

    John S.

    December 5, 2007 at 3:27 pm

    Rule 1 of intelligence: there are no definite conclusions.

    Except when your boy king uses it to justify a pre-emptive invasion of a sovereign country.

    Better spoofing, please.

  47. 47.

    libarbarian

    December 5, 2007 at 3:31 pm

    It’s a finding, not a definite conclusion. Rule 1 of intelligence: there are no definite conclusions. If you knew anything about intelligence work…

    Says the man in the process of asserting definite conclusions ….

    You do know that the inherent fuzziness of intelligence work cuts both ways don’t you, or do you really think that only other people are effected by it?

  48. 48.

    Brachiator

    December 5, 2007 at 3:32 pm

    Peter Johnson Says:

    You’d do well to remember that this is just one report from an agency whose reports—as you would all be the first to admit, I’m sure—have been notoriously unreliable in recent years.

    Uh, no. As I mentioned in another thread, the National Intelligence Estimate representes the coordinated judgments of the US Intelligence Community made up of 16 intelligence agencies, and thus represent the most authoritative assessment of the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) with respect to a particular national security issue (Wikipedia and direct sources).

    Bush may be approaching a “Caine Mutiny” moment. His most recent statements are clearly unhinged, particularly his continued assertion that “”Look, Iran was dangerous, Iran is dangerous and Iran will be dangerous if they have the knowledge necessary to make a nuclear weapon.” He is supposedly in charge of the executive branch, and yet he is disavowing the considered judgment of his own intelligence staff and agencies without offering anything—- anything at all—- which supports his own assertions about Iran. He has gone from being the Decider to the Fabulator.

    Worse, his statement that Iran is dangerous if it even has the KNOWLEDGE to make a nuclear weapon is absurd, possibly even irrational. What is he proposing, that we not only bomb all of Iran’s nuclear facilities, but also demand that Iran expel any person who has a degree in physics, chemistry or mathematics?

    George Bush is spouting indefensible nonsense. How can anyone possibly defend this gibberish? And neither Bush, nor any Bush defender can rationally and simultaneously claim that Iran is a threat because of intelligence reports, and that Iran is a threat because intelligence reports are unreliable.

    The Iranians could easily conceal their activities. This could be a classic Trojan horse ploy on their part. But, hey, don’t listen to me, listen to your new ally in the war on terror Ahmadinejad.

    This is a logical fallacy and a classic “bogeyman” defense. Hypotheticals, could be’s, might be’s, and must have been’s are not evidence of anything but paranoia. We have already gone to war in Iraq for no good reason, because of guess-work and faulty analysis. But to quote the Deciderator himself:

    “There’s an old saying in Tennessee — I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again.”

  49. 49.

    Uncle Kvetch

    December 5, 2007 at 3:33 pm

    Rule 1 of intelligence: there are no definite conclusions.

    Peter Johnson may or may not sneak into the petting zoo to fuck a goat tonight. Based on present snapshots, it appears unlikely, but there are no definite conclusions.

    Unless, of course, Mr. Johnson can provide some sort of definitive proof that he will not, in fact, sneak into the petting zoo to fuck a goat tonight. If he is unable to provide such proof, I think it is only prudent to consider him a goatfucker, and to act accordingly. All options should be on the table.

  50. 50.

    orogeny

    December 5, 2007 at 3:34 pm

    PJ,

    So you’re saying: If our intelligence agencies say that Iran is trying to build nukes, we believe them and we bomb Iran. But, if our intelligence agencies say that Iran is not trying to build nukes, we ignore them and bomb Iran?

  51. 51.

    libarbarian

    December 5, 2007 at 3:34 pm

    It’s a finding, not a definite conclusion. Rule 1 of intelligence: there are no definite conclusions. If you knew anything about intelligence work…

    Says the man in the process of asserting definite conclusions ….

    You do know that the inherent fuzziness of intelligence work cuts both ways don’t you, or do you really think that only other people are effected by it?

  52. 52.

    catatonia

    December 5, 2007 at 3:35 pm

    Eh, it’s only a matter of time before a story starts circulating that an agent of Ahmadinejad met an agent of A.O. Khan in … Bratislava, perhaps … and received plans for a Mohammedean Disruptor Ray, and meanwhile that other agents of Ahmadinejad were active in … say, Dar Es Salaam … trying to procure the yellowbellies vital to the construction of said device, and the whole charade starts again.

  53. 53.

    Dreggas

    December 5, 2007 at 3:36 pm

    Peter Johnson Says:

    it concludes Iran shut down it’s bomb research a while ago and nothing has since changed.

    It’s a finding, not a definite conclusion. Rule 1 of intelligence: there are no definite conclusions. If you knew anything about intelligence work….

    Uh, and you do?

  54. 54.

    Zifnab

    December 5, 2007 at 3:37 pm

    It’s a finding, not a definite conclusion. Rule 1 of intelligence: there are no definite conclusions. If you knew anything about intelligence work….

    What is you wouldn’t have invaded Iraq?

    I’ll take “Republicans Are Smrt” for $400 Alex.

  55. 55.

    cleek

    December 5, 2007 at 3:40 pm

    It’s a finding, not a definite conclusion. Rule 1 of intelligence: there are no definite conclusions. If you knew anything about intelligence work…

    Says the man in the process of asserting definite conclusions parody troll

    fixed

  56. 56.

    Dreggas

    December 5, 2007 at 3:40 pm

    Uncle Kvetch Says:

    Rule 1 of intelligence: there are no definite conclusions.

    Peter Johnson may or may not sneak into the petting zoo to fuck a goat tonight. Based on present snapshots, it appears unlikely, but there are no definite conclusions.

    Unless, of course, Mr. Johnson can provide some sort of definitive proof that he will not, in fact, sneak into the petting zoo to fuck a goat tonight. If he is unable to provide such proof, I think it is only prudent to consider him a goatfucker, and to act accordingly. All options should be on the table.

    poor, poor goat.

  57. 57.

    Peter Johnson

    December 5, 2007 at 3:42 pm

    So you’re saying: If our intelligence agencies say that Iran is trying to build nukes, we believe them and we bomb Iran.

    No, I’ve never said anything of the sort. I don’t favor bombing Iran. Neither do I believe it’s time to start inviting Ahmadinejad to the White House menorah-lighting ceremony. It seems like we differ on the latter.

  58. 58.

    Zifnab

    December 5, 2007 at 3:44 pm

    You are either with us or you are with the goatfuckers.

  59. 59.

    Svensker

    December 5, 2007 at 3:52 pm

    Dreggas Says:

    Uncle Kvetch Says:

    Rule 1 of intelligence: there are no definite conclusions.

    Peter Johnson may or may not sneak into the petting zoo to fuck a goat tonight. Based on present snapshots, it appears unlikely, but there are no definite conclusions.

    Unless, of course, Mr. Johnson can provide some sort of definitive proof that he will not, in fact, sneak into the petting zoo to fuck a goat tonight. If he is unable to provide such proof, I think it is only prudent to consider him a goatfucker, and to act accordingly. All options should be on the table.

    poor, poor goat.

    Yeah, like we’d take the word of GOAT. If you knew anything about intelligence work, you’d know that goats lie and exaggerate even worse than Arabs (or W.Thomas Smith, Jr.). Cheez…

  60. 60.

    Jen

    December 5, 2007 at 3:54 pm

    will there ever be a new thread?

  61. 61.

    ATS

    December 5, 2007 at 3:57 pm

    Bush was at least as responsible for Iran backing off as he was for Libya turning over a new leaf.

    He also made cold fusion work (when it finally does).

  62. 62.

    lysias

    December 5, 2007 at 3:59 pm

    Il Duce ha sempre ragione.

    Der Führer hat immer Recht.

  63. 63.

    ThymeZone

    December 5, 2007 at 4:16 pm

    A story was pimped in prime space on MSNBC since yesterday to the effect that Clinton in difficulty over Iran flip-flop

    Get it? Not Bush, the fucking president, but Clinton is in difficulty. Because, you know, Bush isn’t accountable for anything, he’s not running for office right now?

  64. 64.

    Tim

    December 5, 2007 at 4:34 pm

    dude… come on. At least half the time he rambles incoherently because if it ain’t on his talking points for the day, he doesn’t know shit about it and he sure isn’t bright enough/articulate enough to wing it without sounding like the utter moron that he is.

    Pretty much, yes !!

  65. 65.

    Zifnab

    December 5, 2007 at 4:35 pm

    Get it? Not Bush, the fucking president, but Clinton is in difficulty. Because, you know, Bush isn’t accountable for anything, he’s not running for office right now?

    You can’t hold the Shrub responsible for anything. We already know he’s incompetent.

  66. 66.

    Tim

    December 5, 2007 at 4:37 pm

    I would describe it more as a snapshot of their thinking at a particular time. As more evidence comes to light, that snapshot could easily change. This report is by no means conclusive and no one at the NIE is claiming that it is, in fact.

    They’re probably building a Death Ray.

  67. 67.

    The Other Steve

    December 5, 2007 at 5:33 pm

    I just hope the boys in the kitchen at the Whitehouse leave the strawberries alone.

  68. 68.

    jcricket

    December 5, 2007 at 5:43 pm

    You can’t hold the Shrub responsible for anything. We already know he’s incompetent.

    The wingers actually remind me quite a bit of the moon-hoax landing people, or the people who hate vaccines. There is literally nothing you could say, show, do to these people that would convince them they are wrong, or that their side is accountable for anything.

    There’s always some way for them to spin the latest counter to their arguments in a way that helps them avoid abandoning their beliefs.

    I suggest http://www.skepdic.com/ if you want to read up on the myriad reasons behind these people’s delusions.

  69. 69.

    Echo without Bunnies or Men

    December 5, 2007 at 7:00 pm

    Peter. Johnson. Get it? He’s a dick two times around. One of the better parody trolls I’ve seen actually.

  70. 70.

    jcricket

    December 5, 2007 at 7:19 pm

    One of the better parody trolls I’ve seen actually.

    I think scs was far better at actual trolling. Did Darrel ever out himself? Or did he just disappear into wingnut ether?

  71. 71.

    myiq2xu

    December 5, 2007 at 9:29 pm

    Joe Scarboring says that Bush is lying or stupid when he says he just learned of the new intel last week.

    Joe underestimates our selected leader – Bush is both stupid AND a liar.

  72. 72.

    myiq2xu

    December 5, 2007 at 9:31 pm

    You can’t hold the Shrub responsible for anything. We already know he’s incompetent.

    Blaming G-dub for anything our government does is like blaming Ronald McDonald when you get a bad cheesburger at Mickey D’s.

    Neither one is really in charge of anything.

  73. 73.

    Redhand

    December 5, 2007 at 11:10 pm

    Even Joe Scarborough is saying Bush is either a liar, or stupid. To which I say, why not both?

    The Joe Scarborough clip was pretty good.

    However, I almost vomited to read elsewhere in the thread that Wolfie is going on some bullshit “arms control advisory board,” courtesy of Condi. Honestly, there is simply no way to embarrass these people. Why would anyone want the advice of a fool who f*cked-up two major positions of responsibility in the last eight years, one costing of thousands of lives and trillions of dollars, and the other showing that he’s just a shallow, nepotistic whore?

    Someone ought to ask Rice flat out why this is happening, given Wolfie’s track record (as if we didn’t know, sadly enough).

  74. 74.

    person of choler

    December 6, 2007 at 2:02 am

    In 2005 the NIE said that Iran was busy with a nuke program. In 2007 the NIE said that Iran had stopped its nuke program in 2003.

    I would tell the NIE folks to get back to me when they could at least make it look like they knew what they are talking about.

  75. 75.

    JWW

    December 6, 2007 at 9:08 pm

    Michael,

    As with the average idiot, you make assumptions. If Iran wants only nuclear power to sustain the state, I say let it be so. If they want to refine to weapons grade, I say no.
    Don’t be a fool, they are in competition. They want, and seek the power of ages past.

    Given the opportunity, you will witness the cost in your lifetime. They will not apply any safeguards on such weapons.

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