Come for the politics, stay for the snark.
by John Cole| 95 Comments
This post is in: Republican Stupidity
GWEN IFILL: Do you think that waterboarding, as I described it, constitutes torture?
SEN. KIT BOND: There are different ways of doing it. It’s like swimming, freestyle, backstroke. The waterboarding could be used almost to define some of the techniques that our trainees are put through, but that’s beside the point. It’s not being used.
Family vacations at the beach must have totally sucked for the Bond children. I bet they cried in the car the whole way there.
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[…] Missouri’s own Senator Kit Bond is the expert on what is and is not torture. And what’s at the top of the “Not Torture” list? Waterboarding, of course. GWEN IFILL: Do you think that waterboarding, as I described it, constitutes torture? […]
Quote of the (yester)day
From John Cole at Balloon Juice:
Family vacations at the beach must have totally sucked for the Bond children.
Michael D.
“Ok kids, go put on your swimsuits while I go look for the Cling Wrap!”
calipygian
There are different ways of doing things that we don’t do to our prisoners. I used to think James Inhofe was the dumbest fucking man in the Senate. I may have to re-evaluate.
scarshapedstar
(insert wetsuit joke here)
RSA
As an old friend from the Deep South once told me, “Learning to swim is easy. Getting out of the sack is the hard part.”
jenniebee
And being suffocated is just like holding your breath!
Radiation burns are just like laying out on the beach!
Female genital mutilation is just like circumcision!
Stab wounds are just like having your ears pierced!
Rape is just like rough sex!
Wow, I could do this for just… minutes! Then I have to throw up. urp…
Dreggas
And Midwesterners wonder why we tend to look at them as if they were ‘tarded, ignorant fucks.
Cain
hahaha.. I have no words!!
cain
Dreggas
Oh and I am sure detainees would beg to differ on that point but it would come out as unintelligible gurgles due to water in their windpipe.
jcricket
Nuclear winter is just like a really bad winter.
Global warming is just a really hot summer.
Tsnumis are just big waves
Earthquakes are like when a bunch of fat people walk on your deck.
And Republicans are just like Armageddon.
Oh wait, that’s true.
Dreggas
Skin cancer is like psoriasis!
H5N1 is just a really bad head cold!
Z
Watching your buddies blown up by an IED is just like people insulting your war blog.
Jake
Kit Bond is virtually indistinguishable like a real human being!
Shorter ‘Nother Repub dickhead with a nickname: Bluh-blaubu [gasp! choke!] And we aren’t whatever you said so it doesn’t matter.
Jake
Not like, from. I tell ya, read too many incomprehensible assholes and you start to catch whatever cooties they have.
Cassidy
Not defending the practice, but isn’t waterboarding, in some form, practiced on trainees in SERE School?
MikeL
Cassidy:
The trainees have the option of refusing. A prisoner does not. That is the difference, and it’s huge.
Dreggas
Yeah it is, so that way they know what to expect though nothing can really prepare them for it. According to SERE instructors most people wash out at that point.
Dreggas
Your kids helping to get you elected is serving as much as serving in the military in Iraq is!
Punchy
Can I get a fucking translation into English, please? Seriously, what the hell does this say?
Dreggas
I think, he meant waterboarding is one of the things SERE trainees are put through in the SF, like Cassidy asked. However it’s a guy from Missourah not Missouri so who knows.
Vladi G
Umm, yeah, in order to prepare them to be freaking tortured.
Buck
God damn that is funny!
Tim F.
Cassidy, the point of SERE is to give trainees an experience of torture so that they know what to expect. SERE instructors weighed in on the waterboarding-is-torture a long, long time ago. Friendly advice: if you don’t want to defend the practice, then don’t.
Cassidy
Gotcha. I knew we did something like that, but wasn’t aware of the particulars. That’s one school I can’t wait to go to, though.
ed
Dude, I looked at your blog. Between the spelling and grammatical errors and lack of logical, coherent arguments in your latest post, perhaps calling people ignorant should be an infrequent activity on your part.
El Cid
Can we start calling it Partial Death Drowning, so that we can understand that “waterboarding” is not a hobby taught on weekends at the surf shop?
I mean, at least, not at too many surf shops, I’d reckon. Maybe those down Gitmo way, but not too many.
Cassidy
I wasn’t trying to. Don’t assume. I’ve never even tried to insinuate that waterboarding isn’t torture. As stated, I knew we did something like that, but was not aware of the similarities, so I was hoping one of the older hats might have an answer for me.
Cassidy
On the same note, Tim, Being halfway through my career, I know what the purpose of SERE School is. In my younger days, pre-marriage and family, SF was a very real option for me, so I might have done just a little bit of homework. I’m actually hoping to go [to SERE School] sometime in the near future.
Dreggas
Uh…whatever.
Jen
O/T
Joined RedState. Posted a couple of times. I lasted twelve minutes.
Must improve my satire, and get a new email address. Granted, it wasn’t the most subtle of satire, but I didn’t really think they’d see through it…
Zifnab
See, I think the old adage “There are more than two ways to skin a
terroristcat” would have been more appropriate.I also appreciate how “If we do it to military trainies, we should get to do it to everyone and its not torture!” becomes a magical default excuse for brutal treatment of prisoners.
“Well, golly gee. When I was in the Navy, I used to practice amateur bare knuckle boxing. So that means I get to bludgeon a guys face repeatedly with my fist and its ok, right?”
“Hey, remember that time we got serviced the Army rations that had gone bad? That means giving a prisoner food poisoning is totally acceptable behavior!”
“Remember that time we all got tied up naked and stuffed into a giant human pyramid, while our Sergent took a big stinky shit on a stack of Bibles, right in front of us? Man, we can do all sorts of stuff to our ‘enemy combatants’ now!”
Danton
When Bond was first elected to the Senate, many people in Missouri exclaimed, “Oh my God, we’ve elected Jethro.” (It’s true).
Dreggas
This all can be summed up quite neatly with… “This one time, at boot camp”
BARRASSO
Of course Kit Bond doesn’t worry about waterboarding he has the power of James Bond and Kitt from Knightrider all in a single godlike legislator.
jcricket
Being on the radio in NY is the same thing as being on the front lines in the global war on terror. (actual statement).
Punchy
When you’re new, they parse EVERYTHING you write. If you go too far into “Bush is God”, they ban you as clear spoof. If you go the other way, they ban you as progressive. It’s really, really hard to titrate yer spoof in a manner that doesn’t throw them into suspicion, as they’ll analyze every word.
You did, however, last longer than me. 2 posts….done.
Z
Um… he looks more like Buddha than either Bond or Kitt .. and his son, frankly, looks a bit like Howdy Duty.
Jen
Well, I assume they just haven’t found the other one. Chris Jones says American contractor-on-Iraqi violence good, American-on-American violence bad. I suggested a three-fifths immunity rule for Iraqi-Americans. It wasn’t *real* subtle, no.
Don’t think anyone’s following that thread any more though.
calipygian
Ten years ago, while deployed on a submarine, I did what is known as “kissing the muzzle door.” While we were underway, underwater, I climbed into an empty torpedo tube, they closed the door behind me and I was supposed to crawl forward until I met metal. I was to “kiss the muzzle door” (i.e. the metal cover that separated me from trillions of tons of sea water), crawl back and triumphantly sign the log book saying I did it.
It was the most harrowing five minutes (it seemed like five minutes, it was probably a lot less) of my life. I was in a cold, wet, greasy, pitch black tube.
I imagine that is what it is like to be dead.
I crawled in a few meters and stopped, waited for what I felt an appropriate amount of time, started freaking the fuck out and pounded the fuck out of that torpedo tube door to let me out.
Since they did it to me, I say let’s do it to everyone! Instead of keeping them in open air cages in Gitmo, lets keep them in torpedo tubes on decommissioned submarines. Its got to be cheaper.
Z
Oh poo. I am thinking of Blunt.
Jen
O/T again, but at least more important than my travails at RedState (they did find me. They seemed to think they’d be accused of racism because of me. By their advertisers. Who publish books by Ann Coulter. I found that amusing.)
Yahoo on the destruction of the tapes
I just don’t have any words.
Cindrella Ferret
I watched this yesterday and laughed out loud. That is where I am at with these scoundrels. They can say nothing that surprises me. Nothing. It really cannot be overstated that the current batch of elected Republicans are veering so far away from reality that we might suspect them of dropping too much acid. Jesus! How utterly delusional are these nitwits?
rawshark
Waterboarding is just like swimming, if you don’t know how.
Chad N. Freude
But isn’t that why we have laws? So people who are subject to them can devise convoluted schemes to do what the laws prohibit and get away with it? People stay alert and functioning mentally by solving problems and exercising creativity (excuse me, I mean Innovation, the buzzword of the decade. Inventing laws for people to subvert and evade is the way we fight the Global War on Alzheimer’s.
jcricket
Being eaten alive by Piranhas is just like getting nibbles from a kitty.
Chad N. Freude
I forgot to say that Bond, Kit Bond, obviously has not practiced mental gymnastics and therefore warrants hospice care.
Dreggas
They break the laws in washington so we don’t have to break them on the streets of the rest of ‘Murika…
jcricket
Signing statements, bitches.
Yeah, when someone’s figured out the law can’t (or won’t) keep up, there’s no stopping them. If we ever get a functioning FBI and Justice department again, and if Democrats can maintain greater control of the House & Senate, expect Republicans to be tied up for the next 10 years defending themselves against corruption, contempt, conspiracy, torture, fraud and other crimes.
Chad N. Freude
We’re breaking laws over there so we don’t have to break them over here… oh, wait!
Jen
I know I must put on the suit of resignation to the fact that I have no more outrage left in me, at some point, but I just keep getting upset. How come everybody in the universe has to play by the rules except them? It’s like Calvinball with these people. If we ever get an international criminal court will we be launching our detainees to the moon? There *is* an American flag up there.
Chad N. Freude
Nancy and Harry will see to that!
Chad N. Freude
Not according to the conspiracy theorists.
Jen
By the way, I put some effort into choosing a nice RedState name (no, I didn’t put too much effort into my name here) and I hate to waste it just because I’ve been permanently banned from RedState. Do you think I could use it over at Malkin?
Chad N. Freude
Only if you wear a cheerleader’s outfit. And shake your pompoms.
Cindrella Ferret
Maybe, just maybe, their is hope for the Republicans, and the Senate in general (but I’m not holding my breath). Lindsay Graham questioned BG Hartmann, the legal adviser at Gitmo about waterboarding. Graham deserves credit for pressing the issue.
Watch the video. He reminds of the former Walter Reed Commander who got fired. However, this guy is spouting the party line so I suspect his job is safe.
The leadership at the General and Flag Officer level in our military is staggeringly inept and cowardly. These people are so cowed and beholden to the Former Cheerleader and his Gang of War Criminals they won’t stand up to him. Disgraceful. Shameful.
Jen
I’m not really that kind of girl, but if I’m going to last over there, I’m going to have to really not be myself. I’ll spend some time in Scarborough Country trying to get into character.
Dreggas
two suits actually, of the wet kind…
laneman
I am am simply a clueless maroon. However.
My comments on torture are here
And I shudder. Again.
jcricket
If you were serious you’d go all deep cover on us, and we wouldn’t hear from you again. See, one more thing liberals aren’t serious about, and why they can’t be trusted with national security matters.
Zifnab
Him and Specter. “I am absolutely, positively 100% against this resolution, and would like to voice my utter outrage at the very fact that we should be discussing the merits of such a horrible thing as torture, right before I vote for it.”
Jen
Well, you’ll notice I didn’t tell you my cool RedState name, lest one of you traitors Plame me. But I know how sad you’d all be if I went away forever, and my bleeding heart just won’t let me do that.
jcricket
Every time a BJ commentor leaves, Jesus domenenchs a kitten.
This is the part where we salute you, knowing your about to charge up the hill like Mel Gibson in Galipoli
jcricket
There’s this funny bit on a Face to Face (skate punk) album where they’re “discussing” with their manager how an old song that’s suddenly popular on the radio absolutely, under no circumstances will be included on their new CD. It would be disrespectful to their hardcore fans and would represent them selling out…
That’s about how I feel any time I hear Graham, McCain, Specter or any of the other “moderate” Republicans these days. Enabling douchenozzles.
SGEW
Actually, I’d really like some clarification on this point. I know that waterboarding was used during SERE training, but I remember hearing that the practice was discontinued due to morale problems.
Can anyone confirm this?
Jay
“Family vacations at the beach must have totally sucked for the Bond children. I bet they cried in the car the whole way there.”
My loud guffaw just earned me a warning from my college’s reference librarian.
That’s the last time I ever read John on a study break.
Badtux
A human being is a human being, whether two years old, 22 years old, or 72 years old. So here is my test for whether something is torture or not. If you do it to a two-year-old child, will the child be taken away from you and then you go to jail for child abuse? Then it’s torture.
Application of this principle to simulated drowning while strapped to a plank (“waterboarding”) is an exercise left to the reader.
– Badtux the Snarky Penguin
Mark William
Senator Bond is morally corrupt, but not that morally corrupt.
Bubblegum Tate
Having your throat slashed is just like nicking yourself while shaving!
calipygian
Crucifixion is like getting a manicure and pedicure!
The rack is just like a middle seat in coach!
The Catherine Wheel is just like the Mad Hatter ride at Disney world!
Sleep Deprivation is just like staying up for an MST3K marathon!
Psycheout
I did an image search on the term “waterboard” and found images of people surfing. What’s the big deal?
Surf’s up, kids! Enjoy your perpetual outrage.
D-Chance.
Only if you print it up as So-Called Partial Death Drowning or The Procedure Some Opponents Refer To As Partial Death Drowning. We do have to be PC about this, after all…
jcricket
The rack is just like yoga.
Using dogs on someone is just like jogging in the park.
We’ll be here all week folks, don’t forget to tip your waitress.
cleek
you’ll probably need a new IP address, too. those monkeys know how to ban by IP address.
Chad N. Freude
Well, they really are indistinguishable from one another. Except on the rack they don’t charge you $8 for a stale processed meat and mayonnaise sandwich.
El Cid
I can hang with that. No matter how many newscasters eventually began to call it “so called partial birth abortion”, it didn’t really slow the nut squad right from pushing a ban through into law.
So I’ll be happy to let the right wingnuts add on a “so called” as long as it helps us pass through a reminder law that, hey, partial death drowning is still torture, which is still illegal, not to mention simply beneath us.
Fledermaus
I can top that:
The Procedure Formerly Known As Waterboarding To Which Some Opponents Object To On Moral Grounds, featuring the Abu Ghraib Players.
JWW
Dregass,
Since history seems to be your thing,”as needed” the true line was “and one time at band camp”. I see you might be a Tuba player. You are so full of historical one liner crap, I wonder why you revert to history. Your history seems be limited to, lets say maybe 1 year and beyond that you go to Wikipedia for an answer. You are a scholar, I have no doubt that the research has been done.
JWW
To all,
Not to downplay “torture” as an individual may describe it. Some say, driving to work in LA traffic, waiting in line at K-Mart, sitting in the dentist office waiting room.
They are all BS for what torture really is. But those who make those complaints are the same people that equate an inconvenience with torture. Waterboarding is not drowning, if you drowned, you can no longer answer questions. Yes, drowned, means dead.
Fledermaus
So it’s only torture if you kill the person. You’re either an overblown spoof or a deeply immoral human being.
Tim F.
That does not make any logical sense. If I pulled out all of your fingernails except for the cocaine pinkie, you would live just fine. In fact torture is never meant to kill the victim. Ever. The purpose that it serves is completely distinct from executing someone.
I cannot begin to tell how dispiriting it gets to watch rightwing torture apologists walk these little baby steps towards total logical incoherence in defense of their pathological violence fetish.
Jrod
Drowned means dead, yes, but drowning means “can’t breathe because your head is underwater.”
“Help! Help! I’m drowning!”
“Bullshit, you’re still alive!”
You’d make a swell lifeguard.
Let me know if the USA ever executes anyone as a war criminal for doing any of those. Until then, STFU you dipshit.
El Cid
I’m also really tired of all these people who shoot and wound someone else being tried for “attempted murder”. Murder is when someone actually dies. If you don’t die, there’s no murder. Yes, murder means dead.
bago
That’s why they drown to death. You can drown, inhale water, and be resuscitated. Been there, done that, would not recommend again. F—-
You can drown, not die, and have done it in the past. Making the past tense of the event “Drowned”.
You can get shot, not die, and have it done in the past. Making the past tense of the event “Shot”.
You can get strangled, not die, and have it done in the past. Making the past tense of the event “Strangled”.
You don’t have to be shot to death to have been shot.
You don’t have to be strangled to death to be strangled.
You don’t have to be drowned to death to be drowned.
You don’t have to be tortured to death to have been tortured.
Is that english simple enough to understand?
rachel
I see JWW’s head has not parted company with his ass yet.
TenguPhule
And to think, we used to hang people who did this only 60 years ago.
Good Luck Troops, the Republicans have just given the rest of the world their approval to torture the shit out of you.
Just remember to do the backstroke because really, Republicans don’t consider it a big deal if you feel pain and humiliation so bad you want to die to make it stop.
Anything short of organ failure is just dirty fucking hippy bitching about Dear Leader.
TenguPhule
There’s a difference between them?
jake
Don’t stop there. Call it Partial Death Drowning of Postpartum Fetuses and the TheoCons will storm Gitmo.
Svensker
Sorry, our government’s already said Iran can waterboard a “downed airman” without it being considered torture.
Support Our Troops, indeed.
John
I watched the broadcast and while what Mr. Bond said was ridiculous, the way he said it was telling. Stammering and smarmy at the same time, it was pretty clear he knew he was dumping a pile of horseshit on America.
jcricket
C’mon Tim, it’s not baby steps. It’s a full on sprint/bear hug embrace of inconsistent thinking, ends/means justification and back-slapping macho posturing related to torture. The blowback from what they’re blithely enabling right now is going to make what happened with the Mujahadeen look like a picnic.
Bruce Moomaw
The House has voted narrowly to outlaw waterboarding — on a near-perfect party-line vote. It will, of course, be blocked by filibuster in the Senate.
Chris Johnson
Best snark EVER. On any site :D
JWW
For those simplistic minds above,
Waterboarding, is a psychological form of interrogation used to obtain answers. You do not drown, you have a fear of drowning. We do not drive spikes into your hands, balls or feet to get an answer.
JWW
Rachael,
Thanks for the kindness. Someday I’ll return the favor by giving you a much needed flea bath and an internal parasite remover. My vet says stray canines can be cleaned up and make good pets.