Anything that can exist does exist. Discuss “white holes” and the “multiverse.”
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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.
Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.
A last alliance of elves and men. also pet photos.
It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.
It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.
Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.
The revolution will be supervised.
No Justins, No Peace
They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.
Conservatism: there are some people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.
Something needs to be done about our bogus SCOTUS.
“I never thought they’d lock HIM up,” sobbed a distraught member of the Lock Her Up Party.
They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.
“What are Republicans afraid of?” Everything.
Only Democrats have agency, apparently.
Tick tock motherfuckers!
American History and Black History Cannot Be Separated
Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.
“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”
We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.
DeSantis transforms Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.
I’m sure you banged some questionable people yourself.
People are complicated. Love is not.
Following reporting rules is only for the little people, apparently.
Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.
TR
White ‘holes?
You mean Republicans?
Conservatively Liberal
John made the front page of the Great Orange Satan again!
White holes? Who wants to talk about Paris Hilton and Britney Spears? This is a political blog!
myiq2xu
You mean there really is a Santa Claus?
Michael D.
It’s generally accepted that any information that goes into a black hole is lost (Hawking.) But what happens to information that comes out of a white hole?
Zifnab
There exists a universe in which our personality traits define who we physically are, and this is significant because in this Universe floating along the edge of the Milky Way Galaxy sits an alternate Earth on which an alternate United States resides. And within the Senate Chamber of the Congress of this United States of America, a six foot tall soppying wet vagina is the Majority Leader for the Democratic party.
If I could go to this Universe, I would bring my camera and take a picture and bring it back with me. And perhaps that would sell my point home.
mitch
Anything that can exist does exist.
That reminds me of one of my favourite quotes:
Robert Johnston
Multiverse theory combined with the theory that anything that can exist does exist is a confused muddle that runs into real problems with classical set theory as expounded on by Georg Cantor back in the 19th century. Under such theory, consideration of the set of all subsets of things that exist leads inexorably to either the conclusion that “exist” is not being used consistently in such discussions or the conclusion that one of the underlying theories is false.
SGEW
Gene Wolfe had an interesting fictional take on “white holes” in the Book of the New Sun quadrology. For what it’s worth.
demimondian
Robert, Russell’s paradox only applies in one-typed set theories which allow arbitrary quantification over proper classes, such as the universe itself.
fouro
Looks like Robert took Multiverse out upthread.
Maybe substitute Multipass or, Mooooltipass? Mila Jovovich in is much more interesting and she wears a mean string theory
Michael D.
Let’s change the topic of this thread. Why isn’t the U.S. on the fucking metric system?????????????
Dreggas
Oh no you opened the worm hole now we can truly get geek-evil on your ass :P
TenguPhule
Because we’re fucking idiots.
Next question?
Bob In Pacifica
What? No talk about the Bengals-Niners game?
dnA
Multiverse? As In DC Comics?
I firmly believe that Richard Cohen of the Washington Post is the Earth-2 version of Norman Podhoretz.
Invigilator
Why isn’t the U.S. on the fucking metric system?????????????
I don’t know, but it is symptomatic of our inability to get with the rest of the team, just exemplified again today by our grudging acquiescence to a watered-down climate agreement.
And there’s a whole bunch of other stuff we’re behind on: universal health care; sane gun regulations; a sane view of the world (i.e., too much rampant religion); a reasonable form of government (there’s a reason pretty much every other developed democracy has a parliamentary system, as in, it works better); and so on.
The metric system is a trivial instance of a far deeper problem.
Kynn
Other fictional beasts:
The Fair Tax, “gay Republicans.”
zzyzx
I never could decide if my favorite Earth was Earth 2 (WWII era superheroes), Earth S (the wackiness of the Marvel Family) or Earth C (FUNNY ANIMALS!!!)
Ted
If we had been, that damn Mars probe a few years ago would have made it.
jrg
goatse.cx?
Kynn
I liked the 1970s pre-Infinity Inc. Earth-2.
I’m not sure yet what my favorite is in the New Multiverse.
Robert Johnston
What? You didn’t see the off topic mention of black holes?
demimondian
Wow.
Next time I get involved in a political debate, I’m going to go with “one-typed set theories” FTW, I think. It sure shut down debate.
(And the best part? What I wrote, although completely incomprehensible outside a small community, is both apt and accurate, while avoiding talking about anything not directly related to the point being discussed.)
(And it *still* sounded like total BS.)
jimbo
I think Hawking now thinks data into a black hole is not lost, if I remember correctly. Also, republicans have become ass holes, not white holes.
Robert Johnston
Ah, but Russell’s paradox isn’t quite where my point is going. The problem here isn’t that there is some problem with the description of the set of everything that exists such that there logically must be some object that can be proven to be both a member of and not a member of the set.
Rather the point is that the basic premise of multiverse theory as commonly understood seems to be that every set of subsets of the set of everything that can exist itself exists. There’s no contradiction implied here, just impossibility, so long as “can exist” is defined in a way such that doesn’t merely equate to “exist” and such that the concept of the set of everything that can exist is coherent. It is impossible for all subsets of a set ‘A’–or of some of the same or greater size than ‘A’–to be members of that set ‘A’ under any set theory that I know of; the premises from which one can conclude that the set of all subsets of a non-empty set’A’ is a larger set than ‘A’ and therefore must contain members not in ‘A’ is pretty basic. This is a Cantor’s Theorem issue, not a Russell’s Paradox issue, though the Paradox was discovered through analysis of Cantor’s work.
The way around this is to change the premise “anything that can exist does exist” to “for any thing ‘A’ that can exist there exists a perfect model of ‘A.'”
A porno flick starring me and Gisele Bundchen can exist, but, alas, doesn’t. If there’s such a thing as the multiverse, and somewhere out there there’s a perfect replica of me and a perfect replica of Gisele who got caught together on film that still doesn’t mean that I slept with a supermodel, just that there’s a tape out there which is indistinguishable from the tape that would result if I were filmed having sex with a supermodel–i.e. a perfect model of me cuckolding Tom Brady, which, as a Jets fan, brings me comfort.
Jake
All I needed to know about the multiverse, I learned from Terry Pratchett.
Also, for some reason I found this very cute in a WTF? sort of way.
A Different Matt
All I can say about the 49ers is that they even look incompetent against other inferior teams. As I type this, there’s no mention of the game on ESPN.com’s front page. That’s how inferior both teams are.
A real question: WTF happened to Denver? And why does Denver have to do its best 49er impression when I finally get over the 9ers and committ to the Broncos as half-assed as a just-scorned fan can?
A Different Matt
All I can say about the 49ers is that they even look incompetent against other inferior teams. As I type this, there’s no mention of the game on ESPN.com’s front page. That’s how inferior both teams are.
Although somehow the 49ers just beat Cincy, 20-13. I din’t see the game, but from the score I suspect the NFL took DJ Gallo’s idea and re-played the 49er’s SB win over Cincy from ’88. The network just CGI’d current names onto the player’s jerseys.
A real question: WTF happened to Denver? And why does Denver have to do its best 49er impression when I finally get over the 9ers and committ to the Broncos as half-assed as a just-scorned fan can? Speaking of imploding, WTF’s up with the dems rolling over all the time? Has it always been like this? Or do teams turn to shit when I start rooting for them?
Robert Johnston
demimondian: BTW, while I was pretty well versed in the basics of set theory back in the day I have been a bit out of practice for the last 15-20 years, so please excuse any errors or lack of clarity on my part as integral to an effort to go wildly off topic at Tom Brady’s expense. I think we can all agree that’s a worthy cause.
demimondian
Ah. I see. It’s true that the power set of a set is not of the same cardinality as the set itself. What that says, though, is that the collection of things that “can be” must be a proper subset of the power set of the collection of things: not every configuration is possible.
In a classical world, that seems kind of odd, but there are two reasons to accept it. First, every wave function corresponds to a distribution which is continuous wrt Lesbesgue measure, and the cardinality of that set is the same as the continuum. Also, in a quantum world, entanglement inevitably prevents all possible configurations from being observed.
Thus, the cardinality arguments don’t apply.
myiq2xu
WTF does Arizona have to do with the SF-Cincy game?
grumpy realist
Yeah, but how does set theory get along with quantum mechanics? The reason we physicists like the multiverse theory is it has the least number of problems to get swept under the rug.
Details, details…
I like to tell people that there are only two things I really believe are true: one is math and one is quantum mechanics, and I’m not so sure about the former.
Cindrella Ferret
I know you are not talking about science per se but I think this little story will illustrate a larger point.
My fortified compound is near Rio Rancho, New Mexico which is home to one of the largest Intel Fabs in the world. Rio Rancho is within 25 miles of Sandia National Labs and the Universtity of New Mexico, and less than 60 miles from Los Alamos National Labs. The Rio Rancho (New Mexico) Public School system removed vague language (just last week) about the dispute over evolution–the silly ID/creationist argument that evolution is not settled science–from the High School Science curriculum. The Rio Rancho Observer had this Letter to the Editor:
Whoa! The Devil’s going to move in and do what? Let’s hope the Devil makes this person sit in the corner and read a real science book to start with.
The group in Rio Rancho that pushed for the original change to the science curriculum are a very politically active group of Young Earth Creationists. You know, the ones who believe the Earth was created a thousand years after the Sumerians invented ink. Reverend Huckabee folks!
We live in a Free Society, and people are free to be ignorant. Unfortunately, they also have a right to a say in what is taught in our schools. Being ignorant and undereducated is no longer something to be ashamed of, so as long as you can remember a few clever retorts from a creationist pastor who went to a third rate bible “college” many people suppose they have some sort of knowledge that is valuable. Cheap rhetoric and false logic are the coin of the anti-science realm.
Metric system? Isn’t that what those Secular Europeans use? If we go to the metric system it will be too expensive and its another step down the slippery slope to … (fill in the blank with any ridiculous anti-science rhetoric)
myiq2xu
Because Karl Rove’s metrics were wrong and the GOP lost the election last year?
canuckistani
Although information is lost going into a black hole, that does not necessarily imply that information is created by a white hole. The information loss is an increase in entropy, which is what the 2nd law of thermodynamics is all about.
And you don’t have a metric system because if you did, you’d realize what lousy mileage SUV’s get and violently overthrow the political status quo.
Anne Laurie
Translation: “I am repeating a jumbled collage of my Repub masters’ talking points, the way a medieval peasant would repeat a chunk of garbled dog-Latin, as a charm against Evil Modernity, the Reality-Based Community, and all the other dark forces I dimly believe to be stealing my self-respect and poisoning my childrens’ minds so that they roll their eyes in scorn when I explain that gay marriage leads to more abortions and that Osama bin Laden is paying Mexicans to sneak across our borders.”
Twenty-five years ago, we thought Emily Littella was a friggin’ joke.
grumpy realist
Heck, the medieval peasant had a firmer grasp on reality.
Can we just block off one of the square states, dump everyone there who doesn’t want to believe in science, and just forbid them access to any technology they haven’t developed themselves? The way it is, these idiots are able to get away with being friggin’ idiots because there’s no blowback to them for their stupidity. I say “anyone who wants to believe the world is 6000 years old doesn’t get access to modern technology–you’re too dumb to deserve the privilege.”
incontrolados
(Having not read the other comments)
I always balk at commands.
The U.S. has always tortured people/trained people to torture (here in the good state of Texas).
As Bill Bennett would say, “Why can’t Congress just outlaw waterboarding?” He’s right, yah know.
incontrolados
incontrolados
Clearly, I won’t woo Zif with my mastery of tags.
Free At Last
Emily Littella was a scholar and great thinker compared to the the author of that letter. When EL’s errors were pointed out to her, at least she was quick to say “Never mind.”
Svensker
Fixed.
Jake
Whoever wrote this should be forced to attend school until he can write at a level closer to his actual age.
Unless it really was written by a third grader.
Cassidy
Ah yes, another expensive entitlement. Where do you propose we get the money?
I’ve yet to see any proposed. “Sane” gun legislation will never be proposed by the anti-gun crowd. They are authoritarians who will not stop untilthey feel sufficiently in control of our lives.
A little over-the-top hyperbole doesn’t help anything. Yes, our current leadership is retarded, but in the long view of things, this is the best country you’re ever gonna live in.
Works better how? Passes more socialist style legislation? Our system works fine and the way it was designed. It’s the people that are broken. When the people get out and actually vote with an intelligent, educated choice (as opposed tot he current “electability” status), then the problems in our system will work themselves out.
Punchy
Romney on TV. Jesus fuckin Christ is he a snake-oil salesman. Matthews ripping him shamelessly on every position he’s flipped on, and he’s just getting battered.
Deer in headlights look. Romney is a world-class chump. Damn.
demimondian
Neither are we; that’s why we have Godel’s Incompleteness Theorem to fall back on.
Caya
Well, finally the ugly truth is out there for all to see:
You know, I never suspected that of you all. *sadface*
Dennis - SGMM
In a new twist, the Bush administration is arguing that the destruction of the CIA torture tapes didn’t violate a court order forbidding the destruction of evidence of torture, mistreatment or abuse of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay because the prisoners on the CIA tapes were being held at another secret prison. The article: Destruction of CIA Tapes Defended.
That makes it much better. Of course, Bush assured the world on September 7, 2006, that those held in secret prisons were humanely treated. It’s just an accident that the evidence that could prove or disprove that statement was destroyed.
Let’s see, massive surveillance of US citizens, secret prisons, kidnapping on foreign soil, endless detentions with no legal recourse. Aren’t we now doing all of the things that we were told defined a totalitarian state? Stalin must be laughing his ass off, wherever he is.
Robert Johnston
What do you have against third graders? There’s not a third grader in the world who can be that ignorant without having been taught to be that ignorant. Ignorance of this type isn’t some sort of innate state that abates with maturity and experience; it’s the result of curiosity being quashed through the teaching of idiocy.
Kids are–within the context of having underdeveloped knowledge bases and analytic skills–in most cases more-or-less perfectly rational until some adult starts teaching them otherwise. Ignorance based in lack of knowledge might decrease with age, but ignorance based on faulty reasoning or manifestly false and contradictory sets of “knowledge” is almost strictly increasing with age.
myiq2xu
How about from the savings we’ll get when we scrap the current system, which is the world’s most expensive and least cost-effective?
Steve M
Unfortunately, he has announced that he has early onset Alzheimers. :( I’ll miss Discworld. :(
Delia
Well, cutting out about two percent or so of the Iraq extravaganza boondoggles should just about do it.