New Jersey has banned the death penalty!
In signing the bill, Gov. Jon Corzine called it a “momentous day” and made the Garden State the first state to ban capital punishment since the U.S. Supreme Court reinstated it in 1976.
Corzine on Sunday commuted the sentences of eight men sitting on the state’s death row. They will now serve life in prison without parole, according to the governor’s office.
“It’s a day of progress for the state of New Jersey and for the millions of people across our nation and around the globe who reject the death penalty as a moral or practical response to the grievous, even heinous, crime of murder,” Corzine said.
Wonderful news. Can’t wait to see the zealots on the Right (to life?) side react!
Jake
That shrill noise you hear is not the wind, it is the sound of the Save the Zygotes/Kill ’em All crowd drawning an angry breath.
The right 2 lifers who don’t see a problem with execution (unlike Catholics, who are at least consistent) claim the difference is innocence. Zygotes are innocent and so shouldn’t be put to “death,” (assuming you believe life begins at conception). Criminals aren’t innocent so it’s ok to kill them by the truck load.
Of course, people who tend to espouse this line of “reasoning” also believe that everyone is born a sinner (Eve, apple, etc) and will remain so until they accept Jesus and make a small donation to a fundamentalist broadcasting network. So zygotes and infants are sinners and they lack the volition to accept Jesus or make donations and so we see this distiction is just one more reason not to listen to those schmucks, ever.
Congrats New Joisy.
Michael D.
Weren’t they created as the result of Original Sin?
jcricket
Way to go New Jersey. I used to support the death penalty (really), but after realizing how it didn’t achieve its stated goals and was imposing unfairly (to say the least), I concluded it was the wrong kind of penalty to have in our justice system.
Hopefully this is the beginning of a national trend and we can look forward to the day where American joins the rest of civilization by banning the death penalty.
canuckistani
Hey, what happens to unbaptized zygotes that fail to develop to term? Are thjey condemned to hell in the same way as unbaptized infants? Is there a market for holy water douches to make sure all your zygotes get baptized?
Psycheout
Shrug. It’s a states’ rights thing. And who cares about New Jersey, the armpit of America?
LOL!
Michael D.
Limbo – and not the dance.
Incertus (Brian)
I hope this is the beginning of a trend that will spread nationwide. Hey, a guy can hope, can’t he? Stop laughing!
mantis
Oh, they started last week. My favorite quote:
The death penalty is not there for us Republicans to get a kick out of our twisted, macabre sense of humor.
No, that’s what wars are for! (Note the awkward phrasing in which Republicans get a kick out of their own sense of humor.) Anyway, they’ll act like it’s the end of the world, never once acknowledging that New Jersey has not executed a prisoner since 1963, so this legislation effectively changes nothing (apart from ending the appeals processes for those currently on death row). Ending the death penalty in Texas, now that would be monumental.
Jake
Yes, exactly, we’re all sinners. According to people who make a big deal out of such things. Which is why they should be ignored.
Actually, limbo for infants has gone out of style. I had no idea it wasn’t a formal RCC doctrine.
Punchy
Innocent my ass. First they uterus-jack some unsuspecting slut, taking it hostage and not paying rent for almost a year. That’s grand larceny, holding someone sober against their will, and freeloading.
THEN they get up and leave their one-room oasis and immediately start shaking me, the father, down for insane amounts of scratch, just b/c they have small hands, small feet, and shit a lot. That’s extortion.
Criminals, the lot of ’em.
chopper
my basic reasoning for being against the death penalty is that i don’t think it’s any government’s job to kill its own citizens.
as for the rest, the wife has done a lot of research on the death penalty in the field of psychology and can quote tons of data showing how ineffective it is at most all its stated goals.
Michael D.
Not that you need to do anything but look at crime in our society compared to the rest of the world to see that it isn’t.
If I could guarantee that the person was 100% guilty, then I might change my mind – MIGHT.
That, and the expense, is my main objection to the death penalty. Given the guaranteed appeals proocess, it costs more to put someone to death than it does for life imprisonment.
And even if it was cheaper, there’s still the problem of number one – killing an innocent person.
Chris
NJ 07450 Represent! (I actually don’t have much of an opinion on this particular issue. I don’t believe in the sanctity of life.)
Yes, but the stated list wouldn’t ever divulge the real reason: Sam’s Club families that are stuck between low expectations and a slow death, hoping to see others shoved down to positions that are lower on the totem pole than they are.
And that one works great!
RSA
I expect the next murder in New Jersey to be blamed on Corzine and the state legislative body.
Chris
That would be terribly short-sighted of the zealots.
It should the fault of Civil Unions, which are then the fault of Corzine and the state legislative body.
stone, meet birds.
Kirk Spencer
Michael D – at the risk of a minor threadjack, no, they weren’t born as a result of original sin. But they are – by doctrinal standards – still contaminated by original sin. For they are born of man, and per biblical doctrine all suffer from that fall from Grace.
Thank Augustine for the added fillip – that this means all babes who are born are not innocent, but instead sinners who cannot enter heaven. Actually, Augustine’s position (and the Church’s for a long time) was that anyone not cleansed (baptised) went to hell – and this included newborn babes. This was the theologic drive underlying infant baptisms – political and economic drives were present but I’m sidestepping them for now.) Anyway, it wasn’t till the early 1300s that ‘infant limbo’ came about — too many people in power who found the idea of babies going to hell (especially in the MID-1300s — black death time) unpalatable forced a compromise.
Two digressions – one a trivia I find amusing, one ironic.
First – the “immaculate conception” was not the birth of Christ. Doctrinally, Mary was born free of sin by a special exemption. It was this that allowed her to be (to be coarse) impregnated by the Holy Spirit and give birth to Jesus.
Second – the ironic – is that while the doctrine has many variations (depending on denomination if not major orthodoxy), so-called Fundamentalism has one of the most severe interpretations. Basically true to the above doctrine, that no person can be innocent. The irony is that when abortion is fought it’s because these blastocysts are innocents. Technically, though, their logic can be considered sound. Allow them to be born that they might be baptised and so ascend to heaven, cleansed of sin.
Of course, another interpretation is that until born they are not tainted by original sin and so are heavenbound anyway. But that’s another threadjack.
Tony J
Here’s what I’ve never quite understood about the whole ‘Original Sin’ concept, even to the point of once getting a U on my RE GCSE for writing an essay on what I saw as its obvious logical flaw. Who could ever have predicted that a Catholic school would react badly to exercising one’s Free Will in such a manner? Not me.
Anyway, here’s the problem.
Prior to eating from the fruit of the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, neither Adam nor Eve had any concept of right or wrong. God designed them that way, meaning it was a feature, not a bug.
So how could they possibly have committed a ’sin’ when it was impossible for them to know it was wrong to eat the fruit, even if God had told them not to? They didn’t know what ‘wrong’ was, God didn’t want them to. It says so in the Bible.
But if it couldn’t have been sinful for them to have disobeyed God by eating the fruit, because God designed it that way, it follows that there’s no foundation for claiming that eating the fruit was the Original Sin. Because God made Adam and Eve incapable of committing sin. It says so in the Bible.
Believe it or not, the Brothers at my school were never able to explain away this dissing of God’s grand design without repeating “But God told them not to” over and over and over and over again until I decided that religion wasn’t for me.
Robert Johnston
I expect a precipitous drop in New Jersey’s execution rate as a result of this measure.
I guess what I’m saying is that the elimination of the death penalty in New Jersey, while certainly a good thing, isn’t exactly high on the list of things to be happy about, or, perhaps more accurately, the fact that it even makes a list of things to be happy about is a sad commentary on the current state of political affairs. Now if Texas started providing free Modafinil to defense attorneys in death penalty cases, that would be exciting news.
TheFountainHead
And in other news, George W. Bush, Dick Cheny, and Karl Rove have all formally moved to New Jersey addresses.
Richard Bottoms
Wonderful news. Can’t wait to see the
zealots on the Right (to life?) side react!GOP react!.Fixed.
The Other Steve
To be fair. When our Republican governor in Minnesota tried to reinstate the Death Penalty, many of the Republicans in the state legislature voted against it because of their pro-Life stances.
But then that’s a Minnesota thing, down in Texas they throw parties for executions.
Jake
I don’t have trouble believing it. My big problem with organized religion is that people start to say “We have all the answers!” which is never true so when people start asking questions to which they don’t have answers, the organization’s reps either have to stomp on the big-mouths or admit that they don’t have all the answers, which in turn leads to wondering why the pews are so empty.
Personally, I think OT God was a bit of a dick, like Greco-Roman gods. “IM N UR BASE GIVN U BOILZ!” The fact that Bible Bangers want that dude back is more proof they’re crazy.
RSA
Does this include miscarriages? Bummer. Even infant limbo. . . I wonder if there’s a service out there that provides a sort of reverse amniocentesis–the injection of holy water into the womb for a prenatal baptism? Just to be on the safe side.
Faux News
Obviously this Corzine and/or The State of New Jersey must have a book to sell.
Incertus (Brian)
Shrug. It’s a states’ rights thing. And who cares about New Jersey, the armpit of America?
I’ve always read the 8th Amendment as one protecting individual rights. I find it difficult to see it as anything other than an individual rights issue, as opposed to a states’ rights issue, as a matter of fact.
And if New Jersey is the armpit of America, what does that make Mississippi, Alabama and Georgia? The lower colon? I know which body part I’d rather be.
Tony J
My RE teacher found it really hard to deal with my teenaged assertation that the only way Original Sin made sense was if you thought that God wanted Adam and Eve to eat the fruit, hence his pointing out the location of the tree they shouldn’t eat from to two people who were guaranteed to eat it if a snake told them to.
Or he was a bit of a dildo for putting the tree there in the first place when he knew there was a snake around who wanted people to eat from it. You know, because he’s omnipotent and knows all things. Like it says in the Bible?
And the answer was always:
“God told them not to, they disobeyed him. Shut up!”
And so another soul was lost to Holy Mother Church. Ah, ’tis a sad thing.
Notorious P.A.T.
I used to support the death penalty, but after realizing how it didn’t achieve its stated goals and was imposing unfairly (to say the least), I concluded it was the wrong kind of penalty to have in our justice system.
Same here.
grumpy realist
That’s why someone did some calculations some time back and said that if life starts at conception and you believe that “innocent babies” go to Heaven, Heaven’s filled 85% with cellular goo…
Robert Johnston
New Jersey is a very useful part of America. Can you imagine having to drive through Westchester, Rockland, and Orange counties and Pennsylvania to get from New York City to Washington D.C.? The thought gives me nightmares.
Andrew
Mormonism and Scientology don’t seem so ridiculous, after all.
Chris
NJ is only useful because of I-95? Now, that’s not fair.
Our heroin is top-notch, too. And we have all these other pharmaceutical companies, too.
But, really, after some pure smack, do you really need all of those elitist “medicines”?
srv
So where did all those prayers to bump babies out of limbo end up going?
Bruce Moomaw
I’m a lot more queasy about totally banning the death penalty than most liberals — there are too many cases of murder being committed for cold-blooded gain or for amusement, and it is alarmingly easy to get away with. (One of those whose death sentences were commuted because of NJ’s move is the man whose rape and strangulation of a 7-year-old led to the passing of “Megan’s Law.) But I have no qualms about a MORATORIUM on the death penalty until Leahy’s bill, or something like it, is passed to provide indigent defendants with something resembling an adequate defense.
Media Glutton
Nancy Grace is totally going to go apeshit
rusty
You watch… the wingnuts will claim that New Jersey will attract all the capital offense criminals to their state. By the wingut way of thinking NJ is now a safe haven for all of those who would like to rape, murder and kidnap others.
Jake
Yep, enquiring minds and the Catholic church …
The best explanation I’ve heard for the Apple/Snake set up (not offered by an official member of a Church) was that God knew the devil was going to fuck it up because he didn’t like the idea of other critters with free will, so God’s choices were give up because the devil would only fuck it up or go ahead anyway.
This of course raises a lot of questions and eventually, someone still has to say “I dunno!”
Incertus (Brian)
The only reason Mormonism and Scientology seem so weird is because they’re new. Put a couple thousand years of distance between their creators and their adherents and they make as much sense as any other religion does, which is to say little to none.
Capt. Jean-Luc Pikachu
It’s going to get better!
Robert Johnston
I don’t know about that. I suspect scientology, at least, will make more sense than the most common religions of today. At least it doesn’t involve worshiping an imaginary genocidal maniac and begging its forgiveness. Scientology is more akin to alternative medicinal quackery such as acupuncture, magnet therapy, and chiropractic than to what we tend to think of as religion.
None of which is to say that any of those quackeries makes sense, but I can understand the sense of their appeal far more than the appeal of the common theisms of our day.
Robert Johnston
Of course it’s not fair. I’m from New York. All New Yorkers have a patriotic duty to mock New Jersey mercilessly. Really, we do: I think it’s right there in the tax code, something about a tax credit for all expenditures made on mocking the Garden State.
Ryan S.
You obviously don’t know about the dead space alien spirits from some ancient race that all jumped into a volcano.
Although, I must admit it seems more fun than Christianity.
Andrew
I take it that you haven’t heard of Lord Xenu and his rocket ships that look suspiciously like DC-8s?
Robert Johnston
As I understand it scientologists don’t actually worship Xenu or beg his forgiveness. He’s part of the scientology creation myth, but not an actively interventionist god who responds to prayer. I certainly could be wrong.
jcricket
Oh, I doubt this, and it’s not because of theology. The theology (as it were) being Scientology hardly matters. It’s the fact that they’re a cult/ponzi scheme – brainwash their members, ruin their families, take all their money, prevent them from leaving – that makes them appreciably different from the other religions we’re talking about.
Even the orthodox jews, catholics, strict mormons and Amish don’t treat their “non-believers” as harshly as Scientology does.
Kirk Spencer
You forgot a clause, Jcricket. “… these days.”
Don K
All I can say is, “Kewl!” As one who is proud that my adopted home of Michigan was the first English-speaking jurisdiction to abolish the death penalty (in 1846), and has never even had a death-penalty constitutional amendment qualify for the ballot, I’m equally pleased that the state of my birth has left the Dark Side.
Paul L.
From one of the Acolytes of our Lady of Perpetual Outrage
Great: New Jersey’s death penalty ban saves “Megan’s law” killer
JWW
Michael D.
How you confuse Right to Life and the death penalty is quite amusing. Your are quite confused or maybe just irking for mass responses. Either way, you are in the most basic sense, WRONG. If you need a basic idea of either case just ask, don’t be a fool and look to equate the two.
JWW
Laws are written, adpted or removed as seen fit by a higher court. You place yourself in the position of being the highest court. If you have to refer to scripture to get your answer thats fine, if you refer to laws on the books that’s also fine. If you decide to avoid both and choose your own ideals that is fine.
The day death knocks on your door, with clear cut murder as the intent(and they are successful), then give your opinion. I’m sure you will be happy to house, feed and clothe the doer.
Michael D.
What if one of your mothers johns did such a thing just for a thrill. Where would you stand then?
mantis
Michael D.
Quit irking for mass responses! WRONG (in the most basic sense).
Michael D.
You’re mother’s a whore! Take that.
FTW!
JWW
mantis,
You are a fine soul, I would pass in saving it though. You haven’t the ability to see the evil in mankind nor how to place a justified sentence on such.
Are you ready to house, feed and clothe the premeditated murderer of anyone you love. If not, go find a brightly marked yellow hole to crawl into. I could actually see you standing in the shadows watching the event take place and not reacting.
mantis
One cannot stay in the shadows forever.
JWW.
Your father’s a whore!
JWW
Mantis,
Such a man you are, I’m very positive that you are not my father. In such an event as a murder taking place in his home or anywhere else he would react accordingly and without resevation.
I would guess by your statement, you seek to remain in the shadow, the shadow of what I have no idea. I was pointing out that premeditated murder is and should be punishable by death.
lutton
>>Can’t wait to see the zealots on the Right (to life?) side react!
Go check out Will Bunch’s wacko commentators:
http://www.attytood.com/2007/12/a_ray_of_light_1.html
Dave_Violence
As long as life without parole means life without parole. As long as “rot in prison” equals “rot in prision” it won’t matter. It’s when the criminals are let out, then it’s “we shoulda kilt him.” Kenneth Allen McDuff being the obvious example (Texas, not NJ, though). Elderly prisoners, who’ve served most of their lives in prison for heinous crimes, should die in prison of old age. It’s about punishment, nothing less.
rachel
As long as that’s what they were sentenced to. IMO, when the sentence is up, out they should go. (Actually, this is probably not what old offenders who have nowhere to go may want.)
John Spragge
Since the end of the moratorium on capital punishment in 1977, 99.9% of murderers in the US avoided capital punishment. During that period, 100% of the murderers in New York and New Jersey avoided capital punishment.
Death sentences have no compelling deterrent effect, cost far more than conventional trials and sentences, and provide a cover of theoretical severity that masks an actual leniency. Add to that a disconcerting tendency for capital trials to result in errors; the score now stands at 126 people on death row exonerated so far, a ratio of fewer than ten executions for each exoneration.
Capital punishment as practiced in the United States today simply acts as a distraction from the lethal faults in the American legal system, faults which lead to a homicide rate in the United States double to triple that of other western industrialized countries.
Powdered wigs and Krispy Kreme Donuts
The thought of Nancy grace going ballistic is reason enough fot the rule to be ended…will it be televised?
Cyrus
For your use of “irk” to be grammatically correct, JWW, it needs to take an object. That’s still not standard usage, but it’s close enough. I think you actually mean “Your [sic] are quite confused or maybe just
irkingtrying to irk people for mass responses.” I’m also a little unclear about what “mass responses” means as well, but the basic point is clear.“Trying to irk people” is a cumbersome phrase itself, though. Just so you know, in the slang of Internet culture, especially of blogs, there is a much more succinct word for that: “trolling.”
This has been my good deed for the day.
BIRDZILLA
New Jersey the garden state run by a bunch of pink pansies