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Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

It’s all just conspiracy shit beamed down from the mothership.

Let me file that under fuck it.

Jack be nimble, jack be quick, hurry up and indict this prick.

Glad to see john eastman going through some things.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.

We need to vote them all out and restore sane Democratic government.

Just because you believe it, that doesn’t make it true.

Fuck the extremist election deniers. What’s money for if not for keeping them out of office?

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

Israel is using food as a weapon of war. Unforgivable.

They think we are photo bombing their nice little lives.

“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.”

I desperately hope that, yet again, I am wrong.

Someone should tell Republicans that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, or possibly the first.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Hey Washington Post, “Democracy Dies in Darkness” is supposed to be a warning, not a mission statement.

Republicans would impeach Biden if he bit into a whole Kit Kat rather than breaking the sections apart.

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You are here: Home / z-Retired Categories / Previous Site Maintenance / Election Open Thread

Election Open Thread

by John Cole|  January 8, 200810:17 am| 193 Comments

This post is in: Previous Site Maintenance

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Have at it. Exactly wtf does “Iron my shirt”+ mean anyway? Is that some sexist remark or something, because I iron my own shirts when they have not been dry-cleaned, and never thought of it. Not to mentio0n my dad ironed all the time, and the guy who runs the dry-cleaner I use is named Bill and is a big burly man. Just not getting it.

By the way, by popular demand, we will not be re-designing the site.

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193Comments

  1. 1.

    smiley

    January 8, 2008 at 10:21 am

    Does “Bring me my supper!” work better?

  2. 2.

    Jen

    January 8, 2008 at 10:22 am

    They just couldn’t get their Cartman impressions down.

  3. 3.

    4tehlulz

    January 8, 2008 at 10:23 am

    I’m guessing that “Bitch, get back to the kitchen.” wouldn’t have gotten through security.

  4. 4.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 10:24 am

    via Sully: Gloria Steinem says you should vote for Hillary because she’s a woman

    Bonus: She thinks crying proves Hillary is ready more than the others, because she doesn’t have any masculine to prove.

    Please help me mock loud enough so that she might hear.

  5. 5.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 10:25 am

    Does “Bring me my supper!” work better?

    No, she brings bagels. Needs to learn how to cook.

  6. 6.

    myiq2xu

    January 8, 2008 at 10:28 am

    Is it anything like “Pimp my ride?”

  7. 7.

    Davebo

    January 8, 2008 at 10:30 am

    It’s sort of sad actually. What the hell was the guy thinking?

    Wouldn’t it have been much simpler just to hold up a sign that says “I’m a Neanderthal”?

  8. 8.

    Michael D.

    January 8, 2008 at 10:30 am

    John: It stems from a joke…

    Wife: I want you to treat me like a woman.
    Husband: Ok, iron my shit.

    Or something like that, except funnier.

  9. 9.

    myiq2xu

    January 8, 2008 at 10:33 am

    Does “Bring me my supper!” work better?

    I tried “Bitch! Fetch me another beer” the other night and got knocked out cold with a beer bottle instead.

    Apparently Grandma doesn’t like being told to fetch anything.

  10. 10.

    Jen

    January 8, 2008 at 10:33 am

    What worries me is that some women, perhaps especially younger ones, hope to deny or escape the sexual caste system;

    I *hate* this stuff. Look, all appropriate props to the boomer women, but it is just not 1963 anymore, as I seem to keep pointing out, and no doubt Gloria Steinem played a role in that transformation and I thank her for that. But you’ll note that Obama has gotten where he is by transcending race and having a broad and far-reaching appeal. If he were out marching against the racial “caste system” he would be approximately as relevant as Al Sharpton.

  11. 11.

    Zifnab

    January 8, 2008 at 10:33 am

    It’s sort of sad actually. What the hell was the guy thinking?

    Wouldn’t it have been much simpler just to hold up a sign that says “I’m a Neanderthal”?

    Neanderthals were surprisingly gentle, loving, and humane creatures. Might have made more sense to just wave a giant GOP bumper sticker. Or, perhaps, a warning sign claiming that he was not hygenic enough to handle his own grooming.

  12. 12.

    myiq2xu

    January 8, 2008 at 10:37 am

    Steinem’s column raises a valid point: How would people have reacted to a sign telling Obama to “Go pick cotton” or something similar?

    Because it’s sexist rather than racist, we don’t get outraged.

  13. 13.

    myiq2xu

    January 8, 2008 at 10:37 am

    Steinem’s column raises a valid point: How would people have reacted to a sign telling Obama to “Go pick cotton” or something similar?

    Because it’s sexist rather than racist, we don’t get outraged.

  14. 14.

    myiq2xu

    January 8, 2008 at 10:39 am

    I swear I only hit the submit button 1x

  15. 15.

    peach flavored shampoo

    January 8, 2008 at 10:40 am

    Exactly wtf does “Iron my shirt”+ mean anyway?

    The guy apparently sucks at doing laundry, and was demanding someone attempt to eliminate his wrinkles.

    Or perhaps his garments are anemic, and he’s attempting to rectify this.

  16. 16.

    Jon H

    January 8, 2008 at 10:40 am

    I’m all for a woman President. Just not that woman.

  17. 17.

    chatterbox

    January 8, 2008 at 10:42 am

    Geez, I take one evening to drink some wine and spend time with the family and I completely miss the site redesign arc? Your existing design is lightweight and loads fast, making the content very easy to access, but you could keep the good aspects of the current site and still redesign it.

    I’m a Design Technologist (interactive designer + developer) and would love to lend a helping hand–in a few months when I have the time. Feel free to drop me a line John. I could probably mock something up.

    Keep in mind you could also introduce incremental design changes. Less shock to your users and easier to get the work donated from your adoring fan base.

  18. 18.

    Elvis Elvisberg

    January 8, 2008 at 10:42 am

    Someone did this at the Masters a few years ago, when there were protests over Augusta failing to have any female club members.

    I remember Tony Kornheiser thinking it was hilarious.

  19. 19.

    Haltelcere

    January 8, 2008 at 10:46 am

    Steinem’s column raises a valid point: How would people have reacted to a sign telling Obama to “Go pick cotton” or something similar?

    Because it’s sexist rather than racist, we don’t get outraged.

    Because racism is generally framed as a society issue (racism is dying in the US / racism is alive and well in the US) while a sexist is generally seen as someone with personal issues.

  20. 20.

    Jon H

    January 8, 2008 at 10:46 am

    Actually, it’s so stilted and forced I wouldn’t be surprised if he was a plant from the Clinton camp – a desperate ploy to get the sympathy of women and pull them back from Obama.

    That question yesterday, that made her weepy, also makes me wonder. It sounded like the sort of fluffing question Bush gets from his handpicked crowds: “Gosh Mr. President, how does it feel to be the Risen Christ?”

  21. 21.

    Jake

    January 8, 2008 at 10:51 am

    It means they were hoping to be attacked by outraged feminazis because that’s the only way they can get physical contact with females.

    Short of chasing down sheep.

  22. 22.

    Jen

    January 8, 2008 at 10:51 am

    Molly Ivins, RIP, a personal hero of mine, did not find Hillary an acceptable choice, either. I don’t consider Molly to have been enslaved by the sexist caste system.

    Part of me just thinks these older women very much want to see a woman president and they’re afraid Hillary is their last shot, whereas younger women are willing to wait for someone who really makes us proud. But I’m probably just stuck in an ageist caste system.

  23. 23.

    Breschau

    January 8, 2008 at 10:52 am

    Actually, this goes back to Martha Burk’s protest against Augusta National in 2003. She and her dozens of fellow protesters held a little rally down the street from the entrance to the golf course, and some smart-ass stood in the midst of them with a big sign that read “IRON MY SHIRT BITCH!” on one side, and “COOK MY DINNER” on the other.

    If I remember correctly, the idea for the sign originated on fark.com (shocking, I know).

  24. 24.

    libarbarian

    January 8, 2008 at 10:52 am

    Too convenient. Must be a plant.

    Hillary is a secret Muslim.

  25. 25.

    myiq2xu

    January 8, 2008 at 10:53 am

    That question yesterday, that made her weepy, also makes me wonder. It sounded like the sort of fluffing question Bush gets from his handpicked crowds: “Gosh Mr. President, how does it feel to be the Risen Christ?”

    That’s an unfair characterization. Bush DOES NOT think he is the Son of God!

    He thinks he’s God!

  26. 26.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 10:56 am

    Because it’s sexist rather than racist, we don’t get outraged.

    OK, demonstration time.

    Sexism is nothing like Racism (referring to southern slavery)

    Racism is vestigial from a systematic, well-controlled, sanctioned method of turning people into property. If you were Black, you were either a slave, or running from slave masters, or hiding behind laws up north.

    Sexism is an unsanctioned, unmethodical pattern of men mindfucking on women. Some women get it, some don’t. The effect is a depression on the overall effect on the status of women. This causes men to think that women are slightly less effective, but a woman that hasn’t been mindfucked on can easily transcend this, and frequently — but not constantly — do.

    Therefore, when a colored guy gets up and refers to civil rights, everyone reacts. Everyone was involved.

    When a woman gets up and refers to the ol’ boys club, not everyone reacts, because not everyone was involved.

    Steinem does not have a point.

  27. 27.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 10:57 am

    Part of me just thinks these older women very much want to see a woman president and they’re afraid Hillary is their last shot, whereas younger women are willing to wait for someone who really makes us proud.

    Makes perfect sense to me.

  28. 28.

    myiq2xu

    January 8, 2008 at 10:59 am

    Molly Ivins, RIP, a personal hero of mine, did not find Hillary an acceptable choice, either. I don’t consider Molly to have been enslaved by the sexist caste system.

    I miss Molly, it’s been almost a year since we lost her. She said what she thought in a funny and witty way, and was an unabashed liberal who wasn’t afraid to criticize liberals as well as conservatives. She had a lot to do with me becoming a liberal.

    But if Clinton won the nomination, she would have said something like “Hold your nose and vote for Hillary.”

    RIP Molly

  29. 29.

    GuyFromOhio

    January 8, 2008 at 11:01 am

    Exactly wtf does “Iron my shirt”+ mean anyway?

    It’s a riff on the occasional “DELETE MY FUCKING ACCOUNT, KOS” whinging over at the Great Orange Satan.

  30. 30.

    Zifnab

    January 8, 2008 at 11:01 am

    That’s an unfair characterization. Bush DOES NOT think he is the Son of God!

    He thinks he’s God!

    If you were a real Christian, you’d realize that those claims aren’t mutually exclusive.

  31. 31.

    myiq2xu

    January 8, 2008 at 11:01 am

    Sexism is an unsanctioned, unmethodical pattern of men mindfucking on women.

    Unsanctioned? When did black men get the right to vote? When did women?

  32. 32.

    Jake

    January 8, 2008 at 11:02 am

    Is Chris a spoof of a clueless asshole or is he the real deal?

  33. 33.

    ThymeZone

    January 8, 2008 at 11:03 am

    I prefer “Beer me, Marge!”

    (with apologies to Homer Simpson).

  34. 34.

    scarshapedstar

    January 8, 2008 at 11:05 am

    Leave it to the liberal AP to add some nuance:

    “Clinton responds to seemingly sexist shouts”

    As InstaHack might say: Oh, that liberal media…

  35. 35.

    Jen

    January 8, 2008 at 11:07 am

    But if Clinton won the nomination, she would have said something like “Hold your nose and vote for Hillary.”

    Well, sure. And I would have. But in that case she would be saying that Hillary, being to the left of Huckaguli McRomney, is the less-unacceptable choice between two candidates. Steinem is asking me to pick Hillary over another Democrat, an equally history-making Democrat, because she’s a woman. There’s not a single substantive argument in there aside from the implication that Obama has a lot less experience.

  36. 36.

    Tlaloc

    January 8, 2008 at 11:08 am

    “By the way, by popular demand, we will not be re-designing the site.”

    Ballon Juicers wouldn’t pony up $25 grand, huh?

  37. 37.

    Jen

    January 8, 2008 at 11:11 am

    TZ, my little girl, who is unaware of Homer Simpson, coined her own phrase, “choco me”, when she wants chocolate. It has entered the local parlance and you are all free to use it at will.

  38. 38.

    myiq2xu

    January 8, 2008 at 11:11 am

    Ballon Juicers wouldn’t pony up $25 grand, huh?

    After everybody put their two cents in, John still didn’t have enough to buy a six-pack

  39. 39.

    myiq2xu

    January 8, 2008 at 11:18 am

    Steinem is asking me to pick Hillary over another Democrat, an equally history-making Democrat, because she’s a woman. There’s not a single substantive argument in there aside from the implication that Obama has a lot less experience.

    Actually, if you took all of the Democratic candidates and prepared their resumes without anything that would identify their race or gender, and then evaluated them in terms of experience, Dodd and Biden would easily be the “most qualified,” while Obama and Clinton would be the “least qualified.”

    But if experience was the only issue, Nixon would have beat Kennedy and Poppy Bush would have been reelected over Bill Clinton

  40. 40.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 11:21 am

    When did black men get the right to vote? When did women?

    Re: American politics, yeah, you’re right, there was some dumb sanctioning.

    I was more focusing on the global pattern, where as our racist roots are more buried in national history.

    Is Chris a spoof of a clueless asshole or is he the real deal?

    Possibly the real deal, but you have to tell me exactly which you’re focusing on for me to give you the answer.

  41. 41.

    ThymeZone

    January 8, 2008 at 11:21 am

    I don’t care about the design of the site, but a text editor with spell checking would be great, I often post while multitasking and don’t catch the typos. Combined with the lack of editable posts, and a preview mechanism that only works half the time …. a lot of botched material gets posted here. But I suppose that is a Word Press shortcoming and there’s nothing that can be done about it.

  42. 42.

    4tehlulz

    January 8, 2008 at 11:21 am

    Ballon Juicers wouldn’t pony up $25, huh?

    Fixed.

  43. 43.

    Punchy

    January 8, 2008 at 11:22 am

    Ballon Juicers wouldn’t pony up $25 grand, huh?

    Balloon Juicers wouldn’t either.

    We’re all now Juicers. Sounds a bit pornographic. Or health freaky. Or maybe I’m just an idiot.

    I’m still demanding a YearlyJuice2008. Even Atrios is having one, and we all know how much JC loves Duncan.

  44. 44.

    Dracula

    January 8, 2008 at 11:28 am

    don’t care about the design of the site, but a text editor with spell checking would be great, I often post while multitasking and don’t catch the typos.

    I think half of Punchies posts would be non-existant if you were able to fix typos.

    Is Chris a spoof of a clueless asshole or is he the real deal?

    The guy/gal seems pretty damn genuine and spot-on to me. Certainly no spoof, IMO.

  45. 45.

    TheFountainHead

    January 8, 2008 at 11:29 am

    I think Mark Penn wanted the women vote bad and that these guys were plants.

  46. 46.

    Krista

    January 8, 2008 at 11:29 am

    By the way, by popular demand, we will not be re-designing the site.

    So no Tunch in the hot-air-balloon gondola then? Oh come on!!! It’d be awesome!

    Party pooper.

  47. 47.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 11:30 am

    I don’t care about the design of the site, but a text editor with spell checking would be great, I often post while multitasking and don’t catch the typos. Combined with the lack of editable posts, and a preview mechanism that only works half the time …. a lot of botched material gets posted here. But I suppose that is a Word Press shortcoming and there’s nothing that can be done about it.

    Use Firefox v2. If that would kill you, try Swiftfox. Now all the miserable mistakes I make in my posts are grammatical, logic, and full-on cornucopic errors.

    i need 2 retrn typn lk ths lol

  48. 48.

    Jon H

    January 8, 2008 at 11:30 am

    “Ballon Juicers wouldn’t pony up $25 grand, huh?”

    If I had that kind of money to throw around I’d totally give it to Balloon Juice just to make Red State feel bad.

    I’d even try to make part of the contribution in the form of Macs signed by Al Gore.

  49. 49.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 11:31 am

    The guy/gal seems pretty damn genuine and spot-on to me. Certainly no spoof, IMO.

    Am I getting the Psyche-whatever-guy treatment? Why doesn’t anybody posit their disagreement?

    I’m at work. Help me ignore it!

  50. 50.

    annagranfors

    January 8, 2008 at 11:32 am

    it means approximately the same thing as “Get A Brain! Morans”, which is to say, “I am fat, loud, and white, and can out-Jackass any man in the room!”

  51. 51.

    Jamey

    January 8, 2008 at 11:37 am

    Oh, I thought it said, “iron my shit.”

    Which, come to think of it, is equally weird.

  52. 52.

    ThymeZone

    January 8, 2008 at 11:40 am

    Use Firefox v2. If that would kill you, try Swiftfox

    I’ll try them for that purpose. Results to follow.

  53. 53.

    Incertus (Brian)

    January 8, 2008 at 11:41 am

    Racism is vestigial from a systematic, well-controlled, sanctioned method of turning people into property.

    And that differs from sexism how, exactly? The subjugation of women is all about treating them as property, without the ability to make decisions for themselves. It’s at the heart of the anti-choice movement for one, and is present in the rest of society as well, and we don’t get outraged by it the same way we do racism for some reason.

    Oh, and neither system is vestigial–they’re both alive and well and doing the jobs the people who use them want them to do. Look at the impossible situation Clinton was put into yesterday–if she shows emotion, she’s weak, but if she doesn’t, she’s trying too hard to be a man. It’s the no-win of all no-wins.

  54. 54.

    myiq2xu

    January 8, 2008 at 11:42 am

    Funny how the immediate reaction to any over-the-top (or below-the-belt) action or statement that appears to originate on the right is “It was a plant/we were framed.”

    I guess we can designate that a Standard Wingnut Response #4

    1) It’s Clinton’s fault!

    2) Clinton did it too!

    3) The Democrats do it too!

    4) It was a plant/We were framed!

  55. 55.

    Pb

    January 8, 2008 at 11:42 am

    Steinem’s column raises a valid point: How would people have reacted to a sign telling Obama to “Go pick cotton” or something similar?

    Because slavery is totally the same as sexism, right. Let’s try this again. How would people have reacted to a sign telling Obama to “Pimp my ride” or something similar?

  56. 56.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    January 8, 2008 at 11:44 am

    John et. al from hilzoy(OT but I know you want this info):

    A member of Andy Olmsted’s family has just written me to say that if people want to do something in honor of him, they can send donations to a fund that has been set up for the four children of CPT Thomas Casey, who served under Andy and was killed while trying to help him. The address is here:

    Capt. Thomas Casey Children’s fund
    P.O. Box 1306
    Chester, CA 96020

  57. 57.

    TheFountainHead

    January 8, 2008 at 11:44 am

    I actually thought the group of Pro-Lifers that interrupted Obama last night actually scored points for him by letting him handle it the way he did.

  58. 58.

    Cyrus

    January 8, 2008 at 11:45 am

    Racism is vestigial from a systematic, well-controlled, sanctioned method of turning people into property. If you were Black, you were either a slave, or running from slave masters, or hiding behind laws up north.

    This is just as … mistaken as your description of sexism. Racism existed before the slave trade, in more places than just the Americas, between more groups than just blacks and whites. So, explain again why you think comparisons between racism and sexism are invalid, please, because your 10:56 a.m. comment seemed downright incoherent to me.

  59. 59.

    Dreggas

    January 8, 2008 at 11:46 am

    Oh horse shit, that was planted plain as day, her final comment made it even more apparent:

    “That’s one of the things I love about it,” she said. “It’s never predictable.”

    Sorry but I call shenanigans. First she cries yesterday, then pulls a cheney saying we need to elect the RIGHT person in case we’re attacked again, then she fucks up by making an unforced error WRT civil rights and now THIS?!

    It’s never predictable my ass..

  60. 60.

    Jake

    January 8, 2008 at 11:48 am

    I don’t care about the design of the site, but a text editor with spell checking would be great, I often post while multitasking and don’t catch the typos.

    Firefox runs a spell-check. Of course, if you’re the person who said they didn’t like ffx forget I said anything.

    Combined with the lack of editable posts, and a preview mechanism that only works half the time …. a lot of botched material gets posted here.

    My only issue with editable posts is there are flaming chickenshits who’ll go back and delete/alter their previous posts and then scream “Liar! See? I didn’t say what you said I said!”

    Oh well. The internons would be boring without teh psychos.

  61. 61.

    myiq2xu

    January 8, 2008 at 11:48 am

    Because slavery is totally the same as sexism, right. Let’s try this again. How would people have reacted to a sign telling Obama to “Pimp my ride” or something similar?

    It depends on whether they can differentiate snark from insult.

  62. 62.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 11:49 am

    The subjugation of women is all about treating them as property, without the ability to make decisions for themselves. It’s at the heart of the anti-choice movement for one, and is present in the rest of society as well, and we don’t get outraged by it the same way we do racism for some reason.

    Oh, and neither system is vestigial—they’re both alive and well and doing the jobs the people who use them want them to do. Look at the impossible situation Clinton was put into yesterday—if she shows emotion, she’s weak, but if she doesn’t, she’s trying too hard to be a man. It’s the no-win of all no-wins.

    You know what, in trying to support my original argument, I’m finding that it’s rather unwieldy. I’m trying to compare national racism against global sexism, and that doesn’t make any damned sense. Maybe that’s what others were commenting on.

    Lemme boil down my argument to what I was going for, see if it makes more sense:

    Because everyone today has somehow observed racism, everyone reacts. Because not everyone today has somehow observed sexism, now everyone reacts.

    OK, ignore everything else I said about how that came about. It was rather stupid of me. I was typing faster than I was thinking.

  63. 63.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 11:51 am

    This is just as … mistaken as your description of sexism. Racism existed before the slave trade, in more places than just the Americas, between more groups than just blacks and whites. So, explain again why you think comparisons between racism and sexism are invalid, please, because your 10:56 a.m. comment seemed downright incoherent to me.

    See above post. You are right, sir. “incoherent”.

  64. 64.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 11:52 am

    Because everyone today has somehow observed racism, everyone reacts. Because not everyone today has somehow observed sexism, now not everyone reacts.

    go figure i fuck up my redo of the argument.

  65. 65.

    Punchy

    January 8, 2008 at 11:53 am

    “iron my shit.”

    I’m SO using that!!

    Signed,
    Larry Craig

  66. 66.

    myiq2xu

    January 8, 2008 at 11:54 am

    Oh horse shit, that was planted plain as day, her final comment made it even more apparent:

    Maybe, or maybe not. I don’t know, but I’d be interested in finding out.

    But the knee-jerk reaction on the right and among those on the left with CDS) has been that it was a plant.

    If it was a plant then the Clagina put a lot of eggs in that basket cuz if the truth comes out her career is over.

  67. 67.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 11:56 am

    Look at the impossible situation Clinton was put into yesterday—if she shows emotion, she’s weak, but if she doesn’t, she’s trying too hard to be a man. It’s the no-win of all no-wins.

    I would very much like to point out that anyone who states that

    she’s trying too hard to be a man

    , when she’s trying to fill a war-time war-commander position which only men have previously filled, is full-of-shit and hated HRC since ’92

  68. 68.

    TheFountainHead

    January 8, 2008 at 11:56 am

    If it was a plant then the Clagina put a lot of eggs in that basket cuz if the truth comes out her career is over.

    Which, if she keeps up this campaign and loses, may be anyway, so what has she got to lose? Besides, you don’t think after the first debacle they haven’t gotten BETTER at planting?

  69. 69.

    Keith

    January 8, 2008 at 11:57 am

    Has any pundit gone on TV yet to insist that Barack Obama needs to denounce the guy with the wrinkled shirt? That’s the part of the general campaign that I’m least looking forward to (followed a close 2nd by “What kind of message does this send (to the children)?”)

  70. 70.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 11:57 am

    if the truth comes out her career is over.

    If it doesn’t work her career is also over. Risks had to be taken

    I think Dreggas is spot-on. HRC’s reactions aren’t fitting a human pattern.

  71. 71.

    Dennis - SGMM

    January 8, 2008 at 11:57 am

    …then pulls a cheney saying we need to elect the RIGHT person in case we’re attacked again…

    If we elect the right person then a lot fewer people would want to attack us.

  72. 72.

    Punchy

    January 8, 2008 at 12:00 pm

    OT:

    New way to get arrested in Missouri!

    “Hey, Bartender! Gimmie a fucking beer and play some Public Enemy so my wife can dance!”

    I kid you not.

  73. 73.

    myiq2xu

    January 8, 2008 at 12:02 pm

    I think Dreggas is spot-on. HRC’s reactions aren’t fitting a human pattern.

    So you admit that HRC is human?

    /end snark

    Actually, I found that to be a fairly typical response by a politician in that situation. She passed it off with a little humor, then moved on.

  74. 74.

    TheFountainHead

    January 8, 2008 at 12:02 pm

    Thanks Punchy.

    I didn’t need a reason not to ever visit St. Louis, but now I have one just in case.

  75. 75.

    TheFountainHead

    January 8, 2008 at 12:05 pm

    Well, if it wasn’t a plant she got very lucky that she got ridiculed in THAT way, the same day as her teary moment. I’m sure the combined attack on her womanhood (or whatever) won her some sympathy votes with the older femministas.

  76. 76.

    The Other Steve

    January 8, 2008 at 12:07 pm

    But the knee-jerk reaction on the right and among those on the left with CDS) has been that it was a plant.

    That’s mainly because either of those two groups is prone to doing stupid stunts like putting up signs saying “Iron my Shirts” at a Clinton event.

  77. 77.

    Fe E

    January 8, 2008 at 12:08 pm

    Who’s this “we” that doesn’t get outraged about what now?

    I remember thinking Michael Richards was a blowhard asshole when his bit exploded, and I now think that this un-named dude is a blowhard asshole. So from my point of view my reaction seems to be the same.

    Am I supposed to rack up frequent flyer miles going to protests across the country every time somebody exposes themselves as an asshole?

    I think the lack of violent outrage at this sort of thing is a small, yet hopeful sign for our society: when a person displays overt racism or sexism you don’t need to get the molotovs and bricks in action, making your point and shining light on their actions can get a lot accomplished these days.

  78. 78.

    Dreggas

    January 8, 2008 at 12:09 pm

    myiq2xu Says:

    Oh horse shit, that was planted plain as day, her final comment made it even more apparent:

    Maybe, or maybe not. I don’t know, but I’d be interested in finding out.

    But the knee-jerk reaction on the right and among those on the left with CDS) has been that it was a plant.

    If it was a plant then the Clagina put a lot of eggs in that basket cuz if the truth comes out her career is over.

    She took a page from Mitten’s book of hiring push pollers to “attack his mormonism”. Just given the events of the past 24 hrs it’s apparent that the queen is reeling from the fact that *gasp* she’s not inevitable, no matter the meme she tried to push, and that people really are sick and tired of the SSDD that we’d be getting.

    People can breathe the same stale air for only so long before they want a breath of fresh air to blow in.

  79. 79.

    ThymeZone

    January 8, 2008 at 12:12 pm

    For those who watched the Republican debate over the weekend, and heard the Mumblies trying to outdo each other with phrases like “We have the best healthcare in the world,” this dose of reality can be shoved directly up their stupid, lying asses.

    Nolte said the large number of Americans who lack any type of health insurance — about 47 million people in a country of about 300 million, according to U.S. government estimates — probably was a key factor in the poor showing of the United States compared to other industrialized nations in the study.

    What the fuck good does it do to “have” great healthcare in the country when so many people can’t afford to get it?

    Unless the goal is to make your fat cat contributors richer, that is, and keep lying to the people about imaginary evils of “socialized medicine.”

    Fuck these Republicans very, very much. Oh, and keep a sharp eye out for those greasers that are sneaking across the border, too. They are probably the ones bringing in all the diseases.

  80. 80.

    dougie

    January 8, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    Good decision leaving the site alone. It didn’t need a redesign any more than the Steelers needed Steely McBeam.

  81. 81.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 12:15 pm

    Who’s this “we” that doesn’t get outraged about what now?

    I remember thinking Michael Richards was a blowhard asshole when his bit exploded, and I now think that this un-named dude is a blowhard asshole. So from my point of view my reaction seems to be the same.

    Agreed re: Richards

    Am I supposed to rack up frequent flyer miles going to protests across the country every time somebody exposes themselves as an asshole?

    I think the lack of violent outrage at this sort of thing is a small, yet hopeful sign for our society: when a person displays overt racism or sexism you don’t need to get the molotovs and bricks in action, making your point and shining light on their actions can get a lot accomplished these days.

    Also agreed, but I think we’re in a severe minority when we want people to calm the fuck down. Spending too much time on the internet causes you to grow a thick skin.

    I still have something of a visceral reaction when I see large ghettos of still-poor black people, but I’m sure we can fix that with methods and time.

  82. 82.

    ThymeZone

    January 8, 2008 at 12:18 pm

    “It is startling to see the U.S. falling even farther behind on this crucial indicator of health system performance,” Commonwealth Fund Senior Vice President Cathy Schoen said.

    “The fact that other countries are reducing these preventable deaths more rapidly, yet spending far less, indicates that policy, goals and efforts to improve health systems make a difference,” Schoen added in a statement.

    I suggest we start calling the preventable deaths in this country the “Republican Party’s Uninsured American Death Toll.”

    Thoughts?

  83. 83.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 12:22 pm

    Republican Party’s Uninsured American Death Toll

    hmm…

    God’s Party’s Uninsured American Death Toll

    God’s Party’s Uninsured American Reclaimed Lives Toll

    God’s Party’s Miraculous American Reclaimed Lives Toll

    God’s Party’s Miraculous Reclaimed American Lives Toll

    God’s Party’s Miraculous Reclaimed American Lives Amount

    Still a little clunky, but I think they can wiggle out of it.

  84. 84.

    Jake

    January 8, 2008 at 12:24 pm

    I think Dreggas is spot-on. HRC’s reactions aren’t fitting a human pattern.

    Yep. Because a professional pol’s behavior never varies from the human pattern.

  85. 85.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 12:29 pm

    Yep. Because a professional pol’s behavior never varies from the human pattern.

    OK, “rational” pattern. Still, she comes out of an event where she was getting teary out of frustration, and then some people tell her to quit and start doing laundry. That usually when most people at least quit for the day, if not their project.

  86. 86.

    wasabi gasp

    January 8, 2008 at 12:33 pm

    “Iron my shirt” is the mating call of selfless men who have devoted their life to being caretakers to mother’s basement.

  87. 87.

    Dreggas

    January 8, 2008 at 12:38 pm

    From what I have seen Hillary is trying the “Fling shit and see if it sticks” strategy and it’s not working. Opinion writers and column writers for news papers are coming forward basically saying clinton people have tried pitching them “dirt” on obama but the dirt turns out to be a non-story, there’s no dirt to dig.

  88. 88.

    Xanthippas

    January 8, 2008 at 12:39 pm

    Racism is vestigial from a systematic, well-controlled, sanctioned method of turning people into property. If you were Black, you were either a slave, or running from slave masters, or hiding behind laws up north.

    Sexism is an unsanctioned, unmethodical pattern of men mindfucking on women.

    You might do well to recall that at one time, women were also property. For a lot longer than black slaves were, actually.

    But you’ll note that Obama has gotten where he is by transcending race and having a broad and far-reaching appeal.

    Rebuttal:

    Steinem’s column raises a valid point: How would people have reacted to a sign telling Obama to “Go pick cotton” or something similar?

    Obama will not see such a sign. HRC is not permitted to “transcend” her sex.

  89. 89.

    Jake

    January 8, 2008 at 12:42 pm

    Still, she comes out of an event where she was getting teary out of frustration, and then some people tell her to quit and start doing laundry. That usually when most people at least quit for the day, if not their project.

    So because she didn’t burst into tears or storm off in a huff she must be a phoney. Wait, maybe the tears were phoney too!

    It couldn’t be that she was feeling down, saw these dipshits and thought “I’ll show you, bastards.”

    Please, I can think of 999 reasons to object to HRC as POTUS but “She didn’t run away when bullied,” is about as lame as it gets.

  90. 90.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 12:47 pm

    You might do well to recall that at one time, women were also property. For a lot longer than black slaves were, actually.

    Recinded in a previous post above. I was AWS (Arguing While Stupid).

    Obama will not see such a sign. HRC is not permitted to “transcend” her sex.

    Are you fucking kidding me? Why do people still have trouble with this?

    a.) HRC acts like someone who wants to be president. She states her strengths, solid core. She acts stoic.

    b.) Dumb-shit redneck says “OH little missy, trying to act like a man, are ya?”

    c.) HRC says nothing, continues on like nothing is out of the ordinary.

    When you respond to a position, you give it creedence

    HRC was completely right to “start acting like a man” or stop being feminine and start acting like a careerperson, but once someone attacked her, she fucking capitulated thereby implying that she’s not allowed to act however she damn well pleases.

    HRC is being bullied and she’s caving to it. She’s not ready. Has nothing to do with being a woman.

    Watch Obama eat watermelon, get heckled, and then continue to eat watermelon. He knows what he’s doing.

  91. 91.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 12:48 pm

    So because she didn’t burst into tears or storm off in a huff she must be a phoney. Wait, maybe the tears were phoney too!

    It couldn’t be that she was feeling down, saw these dipshits and thought “I’ll show you, bastards.”

    Please, I can think of 999 reasons to object to HRC as POTUS but “She didn’t run away when bullied,” is about as lame as it gets.

    Correct. It’s the lame forced tears in the event that I’m pointing to, and her calm resolve outside the event gives her away.

  92. 92.

    Bombadil

    January 8, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    The “iron my shirts” guys were plants, but not from the Clinton campaign. They were from a Boston radio station.

  93. 93.

    Z

    January 8, 2008 at 1:19 pm

    Newsbusters said the Iron my Shirt Thing was a stunt by some radio djs.

  94. 94.

    4tehlulz

    January 8, 2008 at 1:21 pm

    Hopefully Toucher and Rich will be fired Tuesday.

    1. No they won’t.
    2. I’m not surprised. Toucher and Rich make Stern look like high culture. Man, ‘BCN has gone into the shitter the last few years.

  95. 95.

    TheFountainHead

    January 8, 2008 at 1:25 pm

    The “iron my shirts” guys were plants, but not from the Clinton campaign. They were from a Boston radio station.

    Okay, now I don’t feel so bad about suspecting the Clinton campaign of being slimey as hell–there WAS something about it that felt inorganic.

  96. 96.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 1:28 pm

    The “iron my shirts” guys were plants, but not from the Clinton campaign.

    I’m going to walk away from this. I guess I was wrong… not sure what my position was.

    But in the back of my head I’m going to secretly think that Mark Penn approached them to do it. Because it makes me feel better. And none of you will know!

    muahahahaha

  97. 97.

    Bombadil

    January 8, 2008 at 1:38 pm

    Man, ‘BCN has gone into the shitter the last few years.

    Agreed. They hit the skids when they started turning over their air time to Howard Stern, then Opie and Anthony. Hard to believe that this was the station that Peter Wolf dj’ed for.

  98. 98.

    Dreggas

    January 8, 2008 at 1:40 pm

    TheFountainHead Says:

    The “iron my shirts” guys were plants, but not from the Clinton campaign. They were from a Boston radio station.

    Okay, now I don’t feel so bad about suspecting the Clinton campaign of being slimey as hell—there WAS something about it that felt inorganic.

    Why feel bad to begin with? I know that some support clinton but sorry, wouldn’t put this past her.

  99. 99.

    Bombadil

    January 8, 2008 at 1:45 pm

    Dreggas Says:

    TheFountainHead Says:

    The “iron my shirts” guys were plants, but not from the Clinton campaign. They were from a Boston radio station.

    Okay, now I don’t feel so bad about suspecting the Clinton campaign of being slimey as hell—there WAS something about it that felt inorganic.

    Why feel bad to begin with? I know that some support clinton but sorry, wouldn’t put this past her.

    Shorter Dreggas and TheFountainHead: “Well, maybe it wasn’t really Hillary, but it coulda been!”

    Asshats.

  100. 100.

    John S.

    January 8, 2008 at 1:50 pm

    Cole-

    So, you still think Huckabee is a good and sincere candidate?

    Mr. Huckabee, who won last week’s Republican Iowa caucuses, promised Minuteman Project founder James Gilchrist that he would force a test case to the Supreme Court to challenge birthright citizenship, and would push Congress to pass a 28th Amendment to the Constitution to remove any doubt.

    How about now?

  101. 101.

    Fe E

    January 8, 2008 at 1:59 pm

    I’m going to walk away from this. I guess I was wrong… not sure what my position was.

    Now that is refreshing–a person on teh internets admitting to changing their postion in light of new facts and argumentation. Good job.

    I’m being sincere, so many people will argue for ever just because they don’t want to change–let alone seem wrong.

    On to other matters; it seems that even though HRC is not my candidate (not even top three) she has clearly gets a very raw deal from all the media. Watching that disgusting thigh rubber Chris Matthews practically drool at the mention of her name is enough to make me change the channel.

    In the lataest installment of “Why everybody hates Hillary” read all about it (scroll down for the relevant bit.)

  102. 102.

    4tehlulz

    January 8, 2008 at 2:05 pm

    If Huck is trying to be teh 3dgy candidate, he should come out against the Thirteenth Amendment to the Constitution. It would surprise even the Minuteman contingent of the Republican party.

  103. 103.

    Brachiator

    January 8, 2008 at 2:07 pm

    Steinem’s column raises a valid point: How would people have reacted to a sign telling Obama to “Go pick cotton” or something similar?

    Because it’s sexist rather than racist, we don’t get outraged.

    People have expressed outrage. Steinem has no argument here.

    You might do well to recall that at one time, women were also property. For a lot longer than black slaves were, actually.

    This is absurd on so many levels. There is really no point in trying to rank outrages against humanity. And there is something more than slightly odious in the false contrast of “women” with “black slaves,” as though slaves were not people, or did not include women. And it is sad, but typical, that sometimes, some people appear to exclude black women from the ranks of sisterhood or the historical feminist movement, or see it as something as separate and apart.

  104. 104.

    Dreggas

    January 8, 2008 at 2:09 pm

    Bombadil says:

    Shorter Dreggas and TheFountainHead: “Well, maybe it wasn’t really Hillary, but it coulda been!”

    Asshats.

    I wouldn’t put it past her, sorry but I wouldn’t. Call me an asshat all you want that doesn’t take away from the simple fact that she would say and do anything to become president and acts as if she is entitled. She is learning she isn’t, she’s trying to fling shit that won’t stick and she is losing.

  105. 105.

    Mike

    January 8, 2008 at 2:11 pm

    I thought the joke was:

    A man and his secretary travel together to a convention. The hotel is overbooked, so there’s only one room available. They decide that they’re adult enough to share a room with no funny business.

    But late that night, and the secretary asks:

    “It’s gotten very cold. Could you get up and close the window?”

    “You know, there’s another way. Would you like, just for tonight, for us to be like husband and wife?”

    “Oh yes, I would.”

    “Good. Get up and close it yourself.”

  106. 106.

    dslak

    January 8, 2008 at 2:14 pm

    And it is sad, but typical, that sometimes, some people appear to exclude black women from the ranks of sisterhood or the historical feminist movement, or see it as something as separate and apart.

    This is a recurring theme in some areas of cultural criticism, such as subaltern studies. The public face of the oppressed black is male, so the oppression of black women qua blacks and qua women is never widely appreciated.

  107. 107.

    Hypatia

    January 8, 2008 at 2:15 pm

    Because everyone today has somehow observed racism, everyone reacts. Because not everyone today has somehow observed sexism, not everyone reacts.

    I’m assuming Chris is a white man. He says everyone has observed racism but not everyone has observed sexism. I think most white men make more observations that involve women than non-white men. Perhaps if one lives in a predominantly white world, one can avoid observing racism. But who lives in a sexually segregated world? Is Chris a monk?

    Chris, your revised statement is as stupid as the original.

  108. 108.

    ThymeZone

    January 8, 2008 at 2:16 pm

    Prediction time.

    I predict that the big Dem turnout in NH presages an Obama landslide.

    Barring the unforseen, I further predict that this contest is all over. The Obama phenomenon will continue, sweep him to the nomination, and then to victory in November.

    John McPain, or whoever is unlucky enough to win the GOP nomination, will suffer the fate of Bob Dole and Barry Goldwater. He’ll become a footnote to history.

    In November, president-elect Obama will nominate Hillary Clinton to be his Secretary of Laundry.

    Just to piss her off.

  109. 109.

    libarbarian

    January 8, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    Mr. Huckabee, who won last week’s Republican Iowa caucuses, promised Minuteman Project founder James Gilchrist that he would force a test case to the Supreme Court to challenge birthright citizenship, and would push Congress to pass a 28th Amendment to the Constitution to remove any doubt.

    ‘

    Huckabee: “I do not support an amendment to the constitution that would prevent children born in the U.S. to illegal aliens from automatically becoming American citizens. I have no intention of supporting a constitutional amendment to deny birthright citizenship.”

    I dont love Huckabee but I have little but loathing contempt for anyone who wants to change the birthright citizenship laws. If anyone should be unceremoniously stripped of their citizenship and assets and hurled naked out of this country to fare on their own, it is people who want to pass such an amendment.

  110. 110.

    ThymeZone

    January 8, 2008 at 2:20 pm

    I dont love Huckabee but I have little but loathing contempt for anyone who wants to change the birthright citizenship laws. If anyone should be unceremoniously stripped of their citizenship and assets and hurled naked out of this country to fare on their own, it is people who want to pass such an amendment.

    I detest Hucksterbee, but I agree with this.

  111. 111.

    4tehlulz

    January 8, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    The Obama phenomenon will continue, sweep him to the nomination, and then to victory in November.

    Not if HRC and her backers have anything to say about it….

    Three groups conducting independent expenditure campaigns in behalf of Clinton – Emily’s List, the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME) and the American Federation of Teachers (AFT) – have explored the possibility of trying to put together a multi-million dollar effort privately dubbed the Anybody-But-Obama 527 Committee, but they have run into problems finding any Democratic operative willing to become the director of a campaign against the man who now is the odds-on favorite to become the party’s nominee.

    Oh please try to Swift Boat Obama. It would guarantee that he owns 2/5.

  112. 112.

    The Other Steve

    January 8, 2008 at 2:22 pm

    Mr. Huckabee, who won last week’s Republican Iowa caucuses, promised Minuteman Project founder James Gilchrist that he would force a test case to the Supreme Court to challenge birthright citizenship, and would push Congress to pass a 28th Amendment to the Constitution to remove any doubt.

    Huckabee is arguing in good faith.

  113. 113.

    Dreggas

    January 8, 2008 at 2:23 pm

    ThymeZone Says:

    Prediction time.

    I predict that the big Dem turnout in NH presages an Obama landslide.

    Barring the unforseen, I further predict that this contest is all over. The Obama phenomenon will continue, sweep him to the nomination, and then to victory in November.

    John McPain, or whoever is unlucky enough to win the GOP nomination, will suffer the fate of Bob Dole and Barry Goldwater. He’ll become a footnote to history.

    In November, president-elect Obama will nominate Hillary Clinton to be his Secretary of Laundry.

    Just to piss her off.

    I predict about the same at least with regard to the landslide.

  114. 114.

    Punchy

    January 8, 2008 at 2:23 pm

    So, did any intrepid local drycleaners offer to iron that guy’s shirt? Can you imagine the publicity they’d get if the owner of Mel’s Dry Cleaning and Fishing stepped up with a fistfull of hot iron and Frebreeze in front of 2000 cameras?

  115. 115.

    TheFountainHead

    January 8, 2008 at 2:24 pm

    Prediction time.

    I predict that the big Dem turnout in NH presages an Obama landslide.

    Barring the unforseen, I further predict that this contest is all over. The Obama phenomenon will continue, sweep him to the nomination, and then to victory in November.

    John McPain, or whoever is unlucky enough to win the GOP nomination, will suffer the fate of Bob Dole and Barry Goldwater. He’ll become a footnote to history.

    In November, president-elect Obama will nominate Hillary Clinton to be his Secretary of Laundry.

    Just to piss her off.

    I lawled but it’s true.

  116. 116.

    The Other Steve

    January 8, 2008 at 2:25 pm

    Not if HRC and her backers have anything to say about it….

    I’m sure if they asked, John Edwards would be more than willing to help.

  117. 117.

    TheFountainHead

    January 8, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    Prediction: If Obama wins big tonight, Hillary will come out spitting acid at him. Her only other option will be to concede the whole thing. I don’t think her career can afford more losses and/or her going negative for a sustained period.

  118. 118.

    TheFountainHead

    January 8, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    Hugh Hewitt is making an argument against nominating McCain to combat Obama in the general. I would have assumed that McCain was the only one that could give Obama a run for his money in the general (not that I think McCain could beat him, but it would at least be interesting.) but he makes a compelling argument…even for Hugh.

  119. 119.

    Jon H

    January 8, 2008 at 2:46 pm

    “But in the back of my head I’m going to secretly think that Mark Penn approached them to do it”

    Yeah, that’s the problem with the Clintons using a sleazemaster whose day job is corporate PR/marketing.

  120. 120.

    Billy K

    January 8, 2008 at 2:47 pm

    Prediction time.

    I predict that the big Dem turnout in NH presages an Obama landslide.

    Barring the unforseen, I further predict that this contest is all over. The Obama phenomenon will continue, sweep him to the nomination, and then to victory in November.

    John McPain, or whoever is unlucky enough to win the GOP nomination, will suffer the fate of Bob Dole and Barry Goldwater. He’ll become a footnote to history.

    Agreed. I know it’s silly to predict anything this early, but this just has the feeling of history being made. I don’t see this wave petering out.

  121. 121.

    Dreggas

    January 8, 2008 at 2:52 pm

    Billy K Says:

    Agreed. I know it’s silly to predict anything this early, but this just has the feeling of history being made. I don’t see this wave petering out.

    I said it watching him in ’04 at the democratic convention when he gave a speech far more inspiring than our own party’s nominee..”That man is our next president”.

  122. 122.

    myiq2xu

    January 8, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    Three groups conducting independent expenditure campaigns in behalf of Clinton – Emily’s List, the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME) and the American Federation of Teachers (AFT) – have explored the possibility of trying to put together a multi-million dollar effort privately dubbed the Anybody-But-Obama 527 Committee, but they have run into problems finding any Democratic operative willing to become the director of a campaign against the man who now is the odds-on favorite to become the party’s nominee.

    I read and re-read the story in that link, and I couldn’t find a source for that part of the story. Who said it?

    Why would those specific groups (leadership or rank-and-file) be opposed to Obama? Why would they risk pissing him off if he wins anyway?

    I’m not saying that no one thought of doing something like that, but I find it hard to believe that those particular organizations would be involved.

  123. 123.

    Johnny Pez

    January 8, 2008 at 3:04 pm

    I wouldn’t put it past her, sorry but I wouldn’t. Call me an asshat all you want

    Not calling you an asshat. Just saying that you’re channeling your inner Chris Matthews.

  124. 124.

    TheFountainHead

    January 8, 2008 at 3:11 pm

    Not calling you an asshat. Just saying that you’re channeling your inner Chris Matthews.

    I think that’s far worse than calling him an asshat. I’ll take asshat over “inner Chris Matthews any day.

  125. 125.

    Dreggas

    January 8, 2008 at 3:14 pm

    Johnny Pez Says:

    I wouldn’t put it past her, sorry but I wouldn’t. Call me an asshat all you want

    Not calling you an asshat. Just saying that you’re channeling your inner Chris Matthews.

    *rolls eyes* what because I happen to believe Shillary is a manipulative shrew of a woman who is even more triangulating than her husband and who, facing defeat by a “whipper snapper” is going from tearing up one minute to using a right wing talking point to say why she should be president the next? Chris Mathews is a tool, but on this one I’d have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

  126. 126.

    Brachiator

    January 8, 2008 at 3:14 pm

    Hugh Hewitt is making an argument against nominating McCain to combat Obama in the general. I would have assumed that McCain was the only one that could give Obama a run for his money in the general (not that I think McCain could beat him, but it would at least be interesting.) but he makes a compelling argument…even for Hugh.

    Nahh. Hewitt is simply being trying to twist his Romney-love from another angle, trying to get people to believe that a Mitt-bot would look younger, more vital, going against Obama.

  127. 127.

    John S.

    January 8, 2008 at 3:22 pm

    I detest Hucksterbee, but I agree with this.

    You’re an interesting fella, TZ.

    You go apoplectic at people on immigration threads when you think they are being anti-immigrant, and yet you want to strip children born here to immigrant parents of their citizenship?

    Could you explain your rationale?

  128. 128.

    myiq2xu

    January 8, 2008 at 3:26 pm

    You’re an interesting fella, TZ.

    You go apoplectic at people on immigration threads when you think they are being anti-immigrant, and yet you want to strip children born here to immigrant parents of their citizenship?

    Could you explain your rationale?

    That’s not how I read his comments – pHuckabee opposed changing the law, and TZ agreed with him.

  129. 129.

    ThymeZone

    January 8, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    yet you want to strip children born here to immigrant parents of their citizenship?

    Sorry, you got it backward. I am against such a move, and for that reason, give a nod to Huckabee, who is also against it … even though I detest him.

    Read the subject posts again.

    I am interesting, but not for the reason you imagined.

  130. 130.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 3:29 pm

    You go apoplectic at people on immigration threads when you think they are being anti-immigrant, and yet you want to strip children born here to illegal-immigrant parents of their citizenship?

    Could you explain your rationale?

    Fixed

    (Not supporting it, but that’s what he’s honestly saying).

  131. 131.

    ThymeZone

    January 8, 2008 at 3:34 pm

    Not supporting it, but that’s what he’s honestly saying

    Well if you mean me, then no. Since everyone is having such a hard time with this, maybe this is clearer:

    I’m strongly opposed to any change to the Constitution which screws with the Fourteenth Amendment which says:

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

    Does that make it completely unambiguous?

  132. 132.

    John S.

    January 8, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    That’s not how I read his comments – pHuckabee opposed changing the law, and TZ agreed with him.

    I’m not sure where the idea that Huckabee opposed changing the law came in, because the link I provided clearly states that Huckabee wants to repeal the 14th amendment.

    Here is the lede from this Washington Times story which is not being refuted by Huckabee’s campaign:

    Mike Huckabee wants to amend the Constitution to prevent children born in the U.S. to illegal aliens from automatically becoming American citizens, according to his top immigration surrogate — a radical step no other major presidential candidate has embraced.

    If TZ agress with Huckabee as he is described above, then my question stands. If TZ agress with a phantom Huckabee that doesn’t want to strip immigrant children of their citizenship, then I’m on the same page as you.

  133. 133.

    John S.

    January 8, 2008 at 3:38 pm

    Does that make it completely unambiguous?

    Ok, that makes sense.

    Someone falsely attributed Huckabee with opposing changing the 14th amendment when in fact he wants to do exactly that.

  134. 134.

    myiq2xu

    January 8, 2008 at 3:39 pm

    From Conan the Librarian:

    Huckabee: “I do not support an amendment to the constitution that would prevent children born in the U.S. to illegal aliens from automatically becoming American citizens. I have no intention of supporting a constitutional amendment to deny birthright citizenship.”

    I dont love Huckabee but I have little but loathing contempt for anyone who wants to change the birthright citizenship laws. If anyone should be unceremoniously stripped of their citizenship and assets and hurled naked out of this country to fare on their own, it is people who want to pass such an amendment.

    January 8th, 2008 at 2:18 pm

  135. 135.

    ThymeZone

    January 8, 2008 at 3:39 pm

    If TZ agress with Huckabee as he is described above, then my question stands. If TZ agress with a phantom Huckabee that doesn’t want to strip immigrant children of their citizenship, then I’m on the same page as you.

    I guess I took the quoted blurb as saying that Huckabee opposed repeal of the 14th amendment. The blurb I reference is from the post above at 2:18:

    Huckabee: “I do not support an amendment to the constitution that would prevent children born in the U.S. to illegal aliens from automatically becoming American citizens.

    I take that to mean that he doesn’t mean to repeal the 14th.

    At this point, thanks to the subsequent confusion, I am not sure what Hcksterbee’s position is, but I know what mine is:
    Leave the 14th alone.

  136. 136.

    ThymeZone

    January 8, 2008 at 3:40 pm

    Someone falsely attributed Huckabee with opposing changing the 14th amendment when in fact he wants to do exactly that.

    Oh, well in that case, I have yet another reason to think he’s a complete asshole.

  137. 137.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 3:42 pm

    which is not being refuted by Huckabee’s campaign

    Someone falsely attributed Huckabee with opposing changing the 14th amendment when in fact he wants to do exactly that.

    I blame myself for not picking up on this before responding to it. I’m Arguing While Stupid again.

    There was a refutation by Huckabee via Sully

    I do not support an amendment to the constitution that would prevent children born in the U.S. to illegal aliens from automatically becoming American citizens. I have no intention of supporting a constitutional amendment to deny birthright citizenship.

    Please note it was the Washington Times, so this isn’t impossible.

  138. 138.

    John S.

    January 8, 2008 at 3:43 pm

    I take that to mean that he doesn’t mean to repeal the 14th.

    I don’t know where libarbarian pulled that quote from (as it has no citation), but the crux of the entire Washington Times article is this:

    His new position on birthright citizenship also puts him alone among the candidates. Many legal scholars say the 14th Amendment, which says “all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States,” grants automatic citizenship to any baby born in the U.S., except in diplomatic cases.

    So know I think we know where Huckabee stands on the issue. And that means you can continue hating him and not agreeing with any of his positions, TZ.

  139. 139.

    ThymeZone

    January 8, 2008 at 3:45 pm

    Gasp. So Huckabee ….. doesn’t want to repeal the 14th?

    Okay. Well, he has a few positions that I can stomach, so this might (with confirmation) be one of them.

    But I still don’t like him. I take him to be a stealth Jesus candidate, I think he winks at separation of church and state, and I think he is stupid about the world outside of Arkansas. I think he thinks the earth is 6000 years old and I consider that a total disqualification for the job he is running for.

    As for the 14th, I want it left alone.

  140. 140.

    TheFountainHead

    January 8, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    Has Obama won yet?

    :)

  141. 141.

    ThymeZone

    January 8, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    Why hasn’t the Washington Times called and asked for my position on this?

    Why? WHY?

  142. 142.

    John S.

    January 8, 2008 at 3:48 pm

    There was a refutation by Huckabee via Sully

    My guess is:

    1) Huckabee let the story fly in the Washington Times hoping to pander to the right-wingers
    2) Right-wingers weren’t buying it, as indicated in the Carpetbagger link I posted above
    3) Everyone else saw the piece and thought how batshit insane Huckabee is
    4) So Huckabee claimed it never happened

    I love election season.

  143. 143.

    Jake

    January 8, 2008 at 3:48 pm

    rolls eyes what because I happen to believe Shillary is a manipulative shrew of a woman who is even more triangulating than her husband and who, facing defeat by a “whipper snapper” is going from tearing up one minute to using a right wing talking point to say why she should be president the next?

    No, because you come across as saying she might have set it up after it has been shown she didn’t set it up.

  144. 144.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 3:48 pm

    ThymeZone: Well if you mean me, then no.

    Not you. The other post-paunchy white bass-playing Gawd-praising former-minister/governor.

  145. 145.

    ThymeZone

    January 8, 2008 at 3:50 pm

    The other post-paunchy white bass-playing Gawd-praising former-minister/governor.

    Oh, well. Okay then. :)

  146. 146.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 3:51 pm

    No, because you come across as saying she might have set it up after it has been shown she didn’t set it up.

    Oh noes! Say he didn’t have a seeming prejudice against the unassailable one!

    Dreggas, the Thought Police have been notified, and will be there as soon as they can figure out with Ron Paul.

  147. 147.

    myiq2xu

    January 8, 2008 at 3:52 pm

    So know I think we know where Huckabee stands on the issue. And that means you can continue hating him and not agreeing with any of his positions, TZ.

    There are many reasons to hate Thymezone, but this isn’t one of them.

    /end snark

  148. 148.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 3:52 pm

    Dreggas, the Thought Police have been notified, and will be there as soon as they can figure out what to do with Ron Paul.

    goddamn it I need a browser that smacks me upside the head every time I do that. else I’ll never learn.

  149. 149.

    ThymeZone

    January 8, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    I’m Arguing While Stupid again.

    Been there and done that.

    This will be an interesting and hectic year, I’m sure we are all in for a lot of twists and turns.

  150. 150.

    ThymeZone

    January 8, 2008 at 3:55 pm

    There are many reasons to hate Thymezone, but this isn’t one of them.

    You guys are the wave, I’m just riding it!

    Heh.

  151. 151.

    Dreggas

    January 8, 2008 at 3:58 pm

    Jake Says:

    rolls eyes what because I happen to believe Shillary is a manipulative shrew of a woman who is even more triangulating than her husband and who, facing defeat by a “whipper snapper” is going from tearing up one minute to using a right wing talking point to say why she should be president the next?

    No, because you come across as saying she might have set it up after it has been shown she didn’t set it up.

    Hmmm what did I say?

    Dreggas Says:

    Why feel bad to begin with? I know that some support clinton but sorry, wouldn’t put this past her.

    Given everything I’ve seen within the past 24 hours (alone) from the Clinton camp I won’t feel bad for believing that she probably set this up to garner some sort of sympathy.

    Sorry I won’t feel bad and nor will I apologize. After all she already had to fess up to having plants at rallies. So no I won’t feel bad, I won’t apologize and I will state once again:

    I would not put it past Hillary Clinton to use plants to garner sympathy for her claiming that sexism is to blame for the fact that she is a shitty presidential candidate, IMNHO, who couldn’t inspire a gnat to go bite something.

  152. 152.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 4:08 pm

    Sorry I won’t feel bad and nor will I apologize.

    See, now you’re talking like Cassidy.

    Why is it that all the brutes come out to attack Hillary? This is unfair to her. Why does she never get the easy challenge to refute. It’s her right as a woman to be repaid for all past injustices to women by not being seriously challenged for the nomination. Anyone who challenges Hillary is obviously a chauvinist.

    /snark detector calibration benchmark

  153. 153.

    Punchy

    January 8, 2008 at 4:09 pm

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

    Does anyone know if this includes Peurto Rico (sp?)? Are peeps born there US citis?

    TIA

  154. 154.

    Dreggas

    January 8, 2008 at 4:09 pm

    Chris Says:

    Sorry I won’t feel bad and nor will I apologize.

    See, now you’re talking like Cassidy.

    Why is it that all the brutes come out to attack Hillary? This is unfair to her. Why does she never get the easy challenge to refute. It’s her right as a woman to be repaid for all past injustices to women by not being seriously challenged for the nomination. Anyone who challenges Hillary is obviously a chauvinist.

    /snark detector calibration benchmark

    it’s a good thing you posted the snark detector bit…heh

  155. 155.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 4:13 pm

    … It’s her right as a woman to be repaid for all past injustices to women by not being seriously challenged for the nomination. …

    it’s a good thing you posted the snark detector bit…heh

    Really? You thought a Hillary supporter would have said that? I would’ve thought that bit on reparations would have given it away easily. I mean, I was saying that if she gets the nomination, all evils against women would be repaid in full.

    I guess they can be that nutty. Maybe.

  156. 156.

    TheFountainHead

    January 8, 2008 at 4:14 pm

    So here’s another prediction: The next move by the Hillary camp will be to not-so-subtly imply that Americans are simply being hoodwinked by the Great Charlatan Barack Obama and that it’s un-American to elect a President this way.

    Shorter Prediction: Shorter Hillary: You Americans are fucktards who shouldn’t be trusted, and if you knew what was good for you, you’d vote for me.

  157. 157.

    myiq2xu

    January 8, 2008 at 4:18 pm

    it’s a good thing you posted the snark detector bit…heh

    I think Dregs was referring to something (or someone) else.

    Let’s keep it clean, and watch the low blows.

    I like pie

  158. 158.

    ThymeZone

    January 8, 2008 at 4:18 pm

    “The present statutory U.S. citizenship of persons born in Puerto Rico does nor arise from or exist by virtue of the Constitution of Puerto Rico, or the Puerto Rico Federal Relations Act pursuant to which that local constitution was instituted (P.L. 81-600). Eligibility of persons born in Puerto Rico for U. S. citizenship results entirely from an exercise of congressional discretion. Statutory citizenship initially was prescribed by the Organic Act of Puerto Rico (“Jones Act”, 39 Stat. 461 March 2, 1917). In 1940 Congress amended the territorial organic act by removing the provisions governing the citizenship status of Puerto Ricans and included that statutory citizenship in Section 202 of the Nationality Act of 1940. When the Constitution of Puerto Rico was being approved in 1952, Congress again revised the statutory U.S. citizenship provision for Puerto Ricans in Section 302 of the Immigration and Nationality Act. The revision of U.S. citizenship for Puerto Ricans was codified at 8 U.S.C S 1402, and Congress has chosen not to amend that provision further since 1952.”
    The granting of American citizenship for people born in Puerto Rico was in no way part of the process of the establishment of the Commonwealth status or part of the Constitution of Puerto Rico. American citizenship was granted by completely different statutes and was not part or was not a subject considered for approval or consent in the process described in Section 1 of P.L. S1-600 (48 U.S.C. S73 1b) as being in the “in the nature of a compact.” The reference made of U.S citizenship in the preamble of the Puerto Rico Constitution does not change the nature of the citizenship of Puerto Rican. The approval of the Constitution of Puerto Rico in 1952 did not change in any way the nature of U.S. citizenship of Puerto Ricans granted through law via the Territorial Clause into the type of citizenship enjoyed by the rest of U.S. citizens who by being born in a state of the union enjoy full constitutional citizenship.

    Congress may continue the current policy under 8 U.S.C. 1402 and treat persons born in Puerto Rico as a separate category of citizens subject to such separate rules and regulations as Congress may determine from time to time to be reasonable. It is understood that under any policy adopted by Congress, the American citizenship that has previously been granted to individuals already born in Puerto Rico cannot be regulated or terminated in violation of due process of law, and equal protection of other fundamental rights. See among other cases; Schneider v. Rusk, 377 U.S. 163 (1964), Afroyim v. Rusk 18 L. ed 2dd. 757 (1967), Kenndy v. Mendoza,372 U.S. 144(1963) Rusk v. Cort 372 U.S. 144 (1963).

    However, there is no restriction on power of Congress regarding citizenship of those born in the future- specially if there is a change in the status of Puerto Rico. This is because people born in Puerto Rico have statutory rather than constitutionally derived citizenship. This is so because our citizenship was granted by the Jones Act of 1917, and not by the Constitution of the United States. The Constitution states under Article XIV ” All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.” Their right to aquire U.S. citizenship by virtue of birth in Puerto Rico is permissive at the discretion of Congress. Congress could, without a question, terminate the granting of American citizenship to persons born in Puerto Rico. J Killian, Senior Specialist in American Constitutional Law stated on March 9, 1998:

    “In Rogers v. Balleri, 401 U.S. 815 (1971),… the Court..ruled that (its earlier decision in case of) Afroyim was applicable because the claimant was not a ‘Fourteenth Amendment citizen’…because Balleri had been born outside the United States… the case law establishes that Puerto Rico, whatever its exact status and relationship to the United States, is not itself in the United States…In that perspective, then, the limitation of the first sentence of Section 1 of theFourteenth Amendment would not restrain Congress’ discretion in legislating about the citizenship status of Puerto Rico.”
    In the letter to Hon. Don Young, Richard Thornburgh states; “The history of citizenship for Puerto Ricans confirms beyond debate that the nationality and U.S. citizenship of persons born in Puerto Rico is a matter governed by U.S. laws enacted by Congress unilaterally-albeit with broad popular support and acceptance among Puerto Ricans. This unilateral exercise of Territory Clause authority to define the citizenship status of persons born in Puerto Rico is consistent with Article IX of the Treaty of Paris. Clearly, the U.S. nationality and citizenship is not within the internal sovereignty exercised by the people of Puerto Rico under the Commonwealth structure of local self-government.”

    After reading this … is a person born in Puerto Rico automatically a US citizen?

    I have no frigging idea.

  159. 159.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 4:19 pm

    The next move by the Hillary camp will be to not-so-subtly imply that Americans are simply being hoodwinked by the Great Charlatan Barack Obama and that it’s un-American to elect a President this way.

    You’re predicting that Hillary will flame out by demanding a recount of all the primary elections, to the entertainment of everyone but the remaining 5% that support her.

    Sullivan just suddenly got rock hard and doesn’t know why.

  160. 160.

    myiq2xu

    January 8, 2008 at 4:21 pm

    Oh Sweet Jeebus, pHuckabee is on the Situation Comedy Room pimping the Fair Tax.

    Teh Stoopid! It hurts!

  161. 161.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 4:22 pm

    Congress may continue the current policy under 8 U.S.C. 1402 and treat persons born in Puerto Rico as a separate category of citizens subject to such separate rules and regulations as Congress may determine from time to time to be reasonable.

    Answer: It’s arbitrary and completely up to Congress.

  162. 162.

    ThymeZone

    January 8, 2008 at 4:23 pm

    Whoops not so fast. It looks like the Democrat Party really shouldn’t even be voting.

  163. 163.

    myiq2xu

    January 8, 2008 at 4:29 pm

    Whoops not so fast. It looks like the Democrat Party really shouldn’t even be voting.

    Arizona is a Native American word meaning “What the Fuck?”

  164. 164.

    TheFountainHead

    January 8, 2008 at 4:30 pm

    You’re predicting that Hillary will flame out by demanding a recount of all the primary elections, to the entertainment of everyone but the remaining 5% that support her.

    I wasn’t even going that far, but yeah…

  165. 165.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 4:32 pm

    Whoops not so fast. It looks like the Democrat Party really shouldn’t even be voting.

    wait.

    is this…

    Are they trying to install a pressure-release in AZ to keep Huckabee from getting the nomination?

    I can’t tell if I’m delusional or not. Help?

  166. 166.

    myiq2xu

    January 8, 2008 at 4:34 pm

    I can’t tell if I’m delusional or not. Help?

    Aprroximately 27% of Americans are delusional. Check 3 of your friends/neighbors. If they’re ok, you’re it.

  167. 167.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 4:36 pm

    Are they trying to install a pressure-release in AZ to keep Huckabee from getting the nomination?

    Waring said he believes the bill faces constitutional challenges and wouldn’t be able to go into effect in time for Arizona’s Feb. 5 presidential preference elections

    Nope, can’t be for Huckabee. I’d posit that it’s for future scary Republican elections, but that would be batshit insane of me.

  168. 168.

    Darkness

    January 8, 2008 at 4:40 pm

    Isn’t it just the punchline of a joke? Such things give a phrase more meaning (almost like a brand) by proxy than they have in reality. You know, they way popping a coke in the snow reminds you happily of people singing and swaying with lights despite the fact that no one ever really does that. And if they did it where I live it would be with a thermos of hot chocolate, otherwise their hands would have to be thawed off the glass bottle later.

    Oh, and polar bears and penguins, together? Forget the snack potential, think of the SWIM for chryssake! Really, Coca Cola? What the heck are you smokin’?

    And ARG! John, you fixed the “o” in the logo but not the “e” and “s”. HERE:
    balloon-juice-alt-alt.gif

    I even cut the size by 3 K for you in the interest of loading and all. With the colors for the white cut from it the pallet can be smaller without any decline in quality

  169. 169.

    Dreggas

    January 8, 2008 at 4:42 pm

    Chris Says:

    Really? You thought a Hillary supporter would have said that? I would’ve thought that bit on reparations would have given it away easily. I mean, I was saying that if she gets the nomination, all evils against women would be repaid in full.

    I guess they can be that nutty. Maybe.

    After seeing Obama 08 equated to Nader in 00 yeah, it was a hard call. That and the first line. I would probably have decked you for it but I’m a liberal so I’ll just provide a follow-up “harsh response”.

  170. 170.

    John S.

    January 8, 2008 at 4:42 pm

    Oh Sweet Jeebus, pHuckabee is on the Situation Comedy Room pimping the Fair Tax.

    Michael D. is probably ecstatic.

  171. 171.

    D-Chance.

    January 8, 2008 at 4:45 pm

    Those so-called Ron Paul newsletters…

    The New Republic breaks the story, so of course, all the sites in Conservative Blaghistan scream “BEAUCHAMP!”, right? Wrong. They’re all (INCLUDING the Weekly Standard) as gleeful as a class of kindergarteners on a field trip to the local ice cream factory.

    Politics and bedfellows…

  172. 172.

    Punchy

    January 8, 2008 at 4:52 pm

    Aprroximately 27% of Americans are delusional. Check 3 of your friends/neighbors. If they’re ok, you’re it.

    Here’s where statistics just dont jive with my reality (emphasis on “my”): 1 in 4 support this clown of a Prez? I don’t know ANYONE who does. Of my 25-30 coworkers, fam, friends, and assorted others, I don’t know a single person who would claim to back this guy. And I’m in a ridiculously red state.

    If these polls were done by having large crowds raise their hands to show support (instead of anonymous phone calls), Bush’s approval would prolly be closer to 5%….Nobody wants to be seen by their peers as crazy enough to support this shithead.

  173. 173.

    r€nato

    January 8, 2008 at 4:52 pm

    By the way, by popular demand, we will not be re-designing the site.

    you’ll thank us later. Trust me. You just saved yourself a huge headache.

  174. 174.

    Chris

    January 8, 2008 at 4:55 pm

    Michael D. is probably ecstatic.

    Given who’s pimping, I’d say he’s probably about to give it up for Jee ZUZ

  175. 175.

    Jake

    January 8, 2008 at 4:57 pm

    Oh noes! Say he didn’t have a seeming prejudice against the unassailable one!

    Try to keep up. It’s his seeming bias against facts that I have a problem with.

    If I want “I think X and even though Not X has been proven, I’m going to ignore everything that suggests Not X,” I’ll go hang out with Creationist rubes.

  176. 176.

    Zifnab

    January 8, 2008 at 5:01 pm

    Here’s where statistics just dont jive with my reality (emphasis on “my”): 1 in 4 support this clown of a Prez? I don’t know ANYONE who does. Of my 25-30 coworkers, fam, friends, and assorted others, I don’t know a single person who would claim to back this guy. And I’m in a ridiculously red state.

    If these polls were done by having large crowds raise their hands to show support (instead of anonymous phone calls), Bush’s approval would prolly be closer to 5%….Nobody wants to be seen by their peers as crazy enough to support this shithead.

    You’re just hanging out in the wrong circles. My friend works in sales at Oracle. That company has a ten foot hard-on for El Presidente. Likewise with anyone in the natural gas or oil industry. Go down to Schlumberger, Exxon, or Halliburton, and ask anyone over 30 who their super most favorite-tastic President of all time is (other than Ronald “Kill’n Communist” Reagen) and try not to let your jaw bounce.

    It’s epically said how much love Bush continues to get in the right circles.

  177. 177.

    TheFountainHead

    January 8, 2008 at 5:04 pm

    If I want “I think X and even though Not X has been proven, I’m going to ignore everything that suggests Not X,” I’ll go hang out with Creationist rubes.

    I don’t believe that’s what he said, he said he wasn’t going to feel bad about thinking X in the first place.

    I was too lazy to go back up through the comments and verify this, but I’m pretty sure this is what he meant.

  178. 178.

    myiq2xu

    January 8, 2008 at 5:07 pm

    Here’s where statistics just dont jive with my reality (emphasis on “my”): 1 in 4 support this clown of a Prez? I don’t know ANYONE who does. Of my 25-30 coworkers, fam, friends, and assorted others, I don’t know a single person who would claim to back this guy. And I’m in a ridiculously red state.

    It’s like Erectile Dysfunction or genital herpes; if you had either one, would you admit it to your co-workers?

  179. 179.

    myiq2xu

    January 8, 2008 at 5:10 pm

    Given who’s pimping, I’d say he’s probably about to give it up for Jee ZUZ

    Are you referring to Jesus Garcia, the gardener? Or Jesus Rodriguez, the janitor?

  180. 180.

    John S.

    January 8, 2008 at 5:22 pm

    It’s like Erectile Dysfunction or genital herpes; if you had either one, would you admit it to your co-workers?

    Exactly. People will be reluctant to admit liking Bush in front of people who may ridicule them or tear down their notion of how awesome they think he is. But in private, or on an anonymous phone call with a pollster they have no problem telling it like it is.

    Select 100 men at random and put them in a room and ask them for a show of hands of who has ED and takes Viagra. I guarantee those same 100 men will respond differently to an anonymous poll.

    And yes, for the purposes of this metaphor, Bush is exactly like erectile dysfunction.

  181. 181.

    Darkness

    January 8, 2008 at 5:24 pm

    You’re just hanging out in the wrong sane, realistic, peaceful circles.

    Fixed.

    If I hung out in your circles I would start to believe in automatic assault rifles and extra large clips were such nice things because they would mesh with the inevitable cleansing fantasies that would result from exposure to such people.

    Hm, there are two interpretations of that, aren’t there? Well, either one is possible depending on whether the result was assimilation or sanity snapping, so I’ll just leave it.

  182. 182.

    Punchy

    January 8, 2008 at 5:27 pm

    Chris Henick, a former deputy to Karl Rove who now serves as a senior Giuliani adviser, says, “We’ve dug our ditch, and we’re going to live in it and thrive in it.” Henick views New Hampshire as a more or less lost cause. Michigan, California and Florida, on the other hand, are a different story—especially Florida, which the Giuliani camp is counting on to jump-start his momentum heading into Super-Duper Tuesday, Feb. 5.

    “There’s one player in baseball who squats outside of the diamond, and that’s the catcher. [When the smaller primaries are over] and all the players all run out, we’re already at the plate,” says Henick, referring to prize states like Florida.

    Uh……WHAT?? What the fuck does this mean? Anyone? Bueller?

  183. 183.

    Jake

    January 8, 2008 at 5:30 pm

    I don’t believe that’s what he said, he said he wasn’t going to feel bad about thinking X in the first place.

    Sure, and there’s no need for apologies from the people who checked the Frosts’ kitchen counters. But I was replying to this:

    Oh noes! Say he didn’t have a seeming prejudice against the unassailable one!

    Because it doesn’t seem to make it through some tiny minds that one’s like or dislike of a candidate doesn’t change facts.

  184. 184.

    Zifnab

    January 8, 2008 at 5:31 pm

    If I hung out in your circles I would start to believe in automatic assault rifles and extra large clips were such nice things because they would mesh with the inevitable cleansing fantasies that would result from exposure to such people.

    Well, that’s kinda the thing. Key words are “over 30” and “in a /big company/”. I think I could count roughly 30% of my friends as loyal Bushies when I started college. By graduation, I could count Bush die-hards on one hand. Even my friends in the College Republicans were generally disgusted with him. (Although the Young Conservatives still lite incense to their “Support the Troops” shrines and danced around the Immigrant Deportation Maypole).

    If GW is the face of the party for the next 20 years, I seriously doubt the party will still be around by then. But… America got over Nixon just in time to elect Reagen. We’re potentially dumb enough to make Obama into the next Jimmy Carter.

  185. 185.

    Zifnab

    January 8, 2008 at 5:33 pm

    Uh……WHAT?? What the fuck does this mean? Anyone? Bueller?

    Giuliani isn’t a pitcher, he’s a catcher.

  186. 186.

    Darkness

    January 8, 2008 at 5:40 pm

    By graduation, I could count Bush die-hards on one hand.

    Part of it is the “it takes a big (wo)man to admit they are wrong” thing that makes people with tiny egos hang onto beliefs in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Belief in a literal bible benefits from this effect too.

    The internet makes it harder to change your mind because many people stupidly put what they believe in print, with a date on it, and so later can’t just claim their friends’ memories are faulty.

  187. 187.

    Dreggas

    January 8, 2008 at 5:43 pm

    TheFountainHead Says:

    If I want “I think X and even though Not X has been proven, I’m going to ignore everything that suggests Not X,” I’ll go hang out with Creationist rubes.

    I don’t believe that’s what he said, he said he wasn’t going to feel bad about thinking X in the first place.

    I was too lazy to go back up through the comments and verify this, but I’m pretty sure this is what he meant.

    What I said was I couldn’t give a rats ass if someone else did it, I wouldn’t put it past her to do it herself because she is that slimy. My opinion is biased, I admit it, but the bottom line is she’s slimey and she would do something like this so no I won’t feel bad that I initially believed it was a plant.

  188. 188.

    Zifnab

    January 8, 2008 at 6:00 pm

    My opinion is biased, I admit it, but the bottom line is she’s slimey and she would do something like this so no I won’t feel bad that I initially believed it was a plant.

    Well, your opinion is biased towards the facts. We know Hillary has used plants before. Ergo, it is not outside the bounds of reason to assume she would use a plant again.

    Dreggas, your willingness to weigh Clinton’s sliminess against crazy conservative stupidity makes me disagree with you. I’d sooner believe some idiot decided to picket a Clinton rally with an “I’m a moron” sign than believe her campaign would need to pay someone to do it. It’s just Occum’s Razor that I’m resting on. I will concede the possibility of premeditated shenanigans definitely exists.

  189. 189.

    Kewalo

    January 8, 2008 at 7:02 pm

    YAAAAAAAAAHOOOOOOOOOO! Thank you so much for deciding not to change the site. It’s so perfect as it is it would have been a big mistake. What a relief…I am so happy I’m going to have a Myer’s and coke.

    I think that the dolt that yelled out about the ironing is either old or from a part of the country where women still do the ironing. Wait a minute…is there someplace left where women do the ironing?

  190. 190.

    Bob In Pacifica

    January 8, 2008 at 7:13 pm

    First off, if I was in that crowd “Iron my shirt” would have offended me as much a “Go pick cotton.” I would have probably told the guy to “s*ck my d*ck, *ssh*le,” or something equally appropriate.

    However, beware of graven images. Gloria Steinem has been working as a provocateur for the CIA since the 50s. Google “Steinem” “CIA” and “Redstockings.” In the mid-sixties she admitted her work for the Agency in an article in the NYTimes, coincidentally, since they’re still printing her op-eds. Then she worked with Clay Felker (google “Clay Felker” and “CIA”) and ran Ms. Magazine with CIA seed money. Her second, and enduring job for the Agency has been to use feminism as a means of dividing and conquering the Left. Whenever she jumps into an issue it’s for the purpose of fracturing the Left.

    The FBI and CIA in the sixties saw any progressive movement as a target to be penetrated and controlled. I specifically recall reading an FBI memo speculating that feminism could be used to divide the anti-war movement. We all remember COINTELPRO, don’t we?

    Considering the list of mass murderers and reactionary apparatchiks on whose arm Steinem’s rested (Kissinger and Stanley Pottinger, for ex), and how many times she’s on the wrong side of an issue, it’s surprising that she’s still got any tread left on the Left, but some true believers still worship at her altar. So this morning I noticed some bloggers quoting her and some commenters saying, “Yeah, women suffer more than black men” but I don’t think that’s got much mileage.

    Here’s a link reprinting the 2/21/67 NY Times article where Steinem admits working for the CIA and apologizing for the CIA: http://www.namebase.org/steinem.html

  191. 191.

    Krista

    January 8, 2008 at 8:06 pm

    Wait a minute…is there someplace left where women do the ironing?

    Does throwing wrinkly stuff into the dryer with a damp towel for 20 minutes count as ironing?

  192. 192.

    HyperIon

    January 8, 2008 at 8:36 pm

    Steinem asks an interesting question:
    If Obama were a woman, would everybody be jumping on the bandwagon?

    Personally I don’t need or want inspiring speeches. I am looking for competence: knowledge, careful thinking, substance. I am made nervous by Obama’s clear appeal to emotions. I don’t like his plan for universal health coverage..because it is not universal. The guy has been a senator for just three years. And finally I was surprised at how off-putting his wife was this weekend on CSPAN. (Better that Mitt’s wife or the Huckster’s, but that’s not saying much.)

    When HRC reminds us that it is easy to promise change but much more difficult to effect it, I think she knows whereof she speaks. Which is not to say that I’m keen on her candidacy either.

    I’m just put off by the whole pep rally atmosphere. Crowd mentality is always a negative in my book.

  193. 193.

    robuzo

    January 8, 2008 at 10:19 pm

    “Steinem’s column raises a valid point: How would people have reacted to a sign telling Obama to “Go pick cotton” or something similar?”

    “Iron my shirt” is Archie Bunker; “Go pick cotton” is KKK. Not quite the same.

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