Have at it. Exactly wtf does “Iron my shirt”+ mean anyway? Is that some sexist remark or something, because I iron my own shirts when they have not been dry-cleaned, and never thought of it. Not to mentio0n my dad ironed all the time, and the guy who runs the dry-cleaner I use is named Bill and is a big burly man. Just not getting it.
By the way, by popular demand, we will not be re-designing the site.
smiley
Does “Bring me my supper!” work better?
Jen
They just couldn’t get their Cartman impressions down.
4tehlulz
I’m guessing that “Bitch, get back to the kitchen.” wouldn’t have gotten through security.
Chris
via Sully: Gloria Steinem says you should vote for Hillary because she’s a woman
Bonus: She thinks crying proves Hillary is ready more than the others, because she doesn’t have any masculine to prove.
Please help me mock loud enough so that she might hear.
Chris
No, she brings bagels. Needs to learn how to cook.
myiq2xu
Is it anything like “Pimp my ride?”
Davebo
It’s sort of sad actually. What the hell was the guy thinking?
Wouldn’t it have been much simpler just to hold up a sign that says “I’m a Neanderthal”?
Michael D.
John: It stems from a joke…
Wife: I want you to treat me like a woman.
Husband: Ok, iron my shit.
Or something like that, except funnier.
myiq2xu
I tried “Bitch! Fetch me another beer” the other night and got knocked out cold with a beer bottle instead.
Apparently Grandma doesn’t like being told to fetch anything.
Jen
I *hate* this stuff. Look, all appropriate props to the boomer women, but it is just not 1963 anymore, as I seem to keep pointing out, and no doubt Gloria Steinem played a role in that transformation and I thank her for that. But you’ll note that Obama has gotten where he is by transcending race and having a broad and far-reaching appeal. If he were out marching against the racial “caste system” he would be approximately as relevant as Al Sharpton.
Zifnab
Neanderthals were surprisingly gentle, loving, and humane creatures. Might have made more sense to just wave a giant GOP bumper sticker. Or, perhaps, a warning sign claiming that he was not hygenic enough to handle his own grooming.
myiq2xu
Steinem’s column raises a valid point: How would people have reacted to a sign telling Obama to “Go pick cotton” or something similar?
Because it’s sexist rather than racist, we don’t get outraged.
myiq2xu
Steinem’s column raises a valid point: How would people have reacted to a sign telling Obama to “Go pick cotton” or something similar?
Because it’s sexist rather than racist, we don’t get outraged.
myiq2xu
I swear I only hit the submit button 1x
peach flavored shampoo
The guy apparently sucks at doing laundry, and was demanding someone attempt to eliminate his wrinkles.
Or perhaps his garments are anemic, and he’s attempting to rectify this.
Jon H
I’m all for a woman President. Just not that woman.
chatterbox
Geez, I take one evening to drink some wine and spend time with the family and I completely miss the site redesign arc? Your existing design is lightweight and loads fast, making the content very easy to access, but you could keep the good aspects of the current site and still redesign it.
I’m a Design Technologist (interactive designer + developer) and would love to lend a helping hand–in a few months when I have the time. Feel free to drop me a line John. I could probably mock something up.
Keep in mind you could also introduce incremental design changes. Less shock to your users and easier to get the work donated from your adoring fan base.
Elvis Elvisberg
Someone did this at the Masters a few years ago, when there were protests over Augusta failing to have any female club members.
I remember Tony Kornheiser thinking it was hilarious.
Haltelcere
Because racism is generally framed as a society issue (racism is dying in the US / racism is alive and well in the US) while a sexist is generally seen as someone with personal issues.
Jon H
Actually, it’s so stilted and forced I wouldn’t be surprised if he was a plant from the Clinton camp – a desperate ploy to get the sympathy of women and pull them back from Obama.
That question yesterday, that made her weepy, also makes me wonder. It sounded like the sort of fluffing question Bush gets from his handpicked crowds: “Gosh Mr. President, how does it feel to be the Risen Christ?”
Jake
It means they were hoping to be attacked by outraged feminazis because that’s the only way they can get physical contact with females.
Short of chasing down sheep.
Jen
Molly Ivins, RIP, a personal hero of mine, did not find Hillary an acceptable choice, either. I don’t consider Molly to have been enslaved by the sexist caste system.
Part of me just thinks these older women very much want to see a woman president and they’re afraid Hillary is their last shot, whereas younger women are willing to wait for someone who really makes us proud. But I’m probably just stuck in an ageist caste system.
Breschau
Actually, this goes back to Martha Burk’s protest against Augusta National in 2003. She and her dozens of fellow protesters held a little rally down the street from the entrance to the golf course, and some smart-ass stood in the midst of them with a big sign that read “IRON MY SHIRT BITCH!” on one side, and “COOK MY DINNER” on the other.
If I remember correctly, the idea for the sign originated on fark.com (shocking, I know).
libarbarian
Too convenient. Must be a plant.
Hillary is a secret Muslim.
myiq2xu
That’s an unfair characterization. Bush DOES NOT think he is the Son of God!
He thinks he’s God!
Chris
OK, demonstration time.
Sexism is nothing like Racism (referring to southern slavery)
Racism is vestigial from a systematic, well-controlled, sanctioned method of turning people into property. If you were Black, you were either a slave, or running from slave masters, or hiding behind laws up north.
Sexism is an unsanctioned, unmethodical pattern of men mindfucking on women. Some women get it, some don’t. The effect is a depression on the overall effect on the status of women. This causes men to think that women are slightly less effective, but a woman that hasn’t been mindfucked on can easily transcend this, and frequently — but not constantly — do.
Therefore, when a colored guy gets up and refers to civil rights, everyone reacts. Everyone was involved.
When a woman gets up and refers to the ol’ boys club, not everyone reacts, because not everyone was involved.
Steinem does not have a point.
Chris
Makes perfect sense to me.
myiq2xu
I miss Molly, it’s been almost a year since we lost her. She said what she thought in a funny and witty way, and was an unabashed liberal who wasn’t afraid to criticize liberals as well as conservatives. She had a lot to do with me becoming a liberal.
But if Clinton won the nomination, she would have said something like “Hold your nose and vote for Hillary.”
RIP Molly
GuyFromOhio
Exactly wtf does “Iron my shirt”+ mean anyway?
It’s a riff on the occasional “DELETE MY FUCKING ACCOUNT, KOS” whinging over at the Great Orange Satan.
Zifnab
If you were a real Christian, you’d realize that those claims aren’t mutually exclusive.
myiq2xu
Unsanctioned? When did black men get the right to vote? When did women?
Jake
Is Chris a spoof of a clueless asshole or is he the real deal?
ThymeZone
I prefer “Beer me, Marge!”
(with apologies to Homer Simpson).
scarshapedstar
Leave it to the liberal AP to add some nuance:
“Clinton responds to seemingly sexist shouts”
As InstaHack might say: Oh, that liberal media…
Jen
Well, sure. And I would have. But in that case she would be saying that Hillary, being to the left of Huckaguli McRomney, is the less-unacceptable choice between two candidates. Steinem is asking me to pick Hillary over another Democrat, an equally history-making Democrat, because she’s a woman. There’s not a single substantive argument in there aside from the implication that Obama has a lot less experience.
Tlaloc
“By the way, by popular demand, we will not be re-designing the site.”
Ballon Juicers wouldn’t pony up $25 grand, huh?
Jen
TZ, my little girl, who is unaware of Homer Simpson, coined her own phrase, “choco me”, when she wants chocolate. It has entered the local parlance and you are all free to use it at will.
myiq2xu
After everybody put their two cents in, John still didn’t have enough to buy a six-pack
myiq2xu
Actually, if you took all of the Democratic candidates and prepared their resumes without anything that would identify their race or gender, and then evaluated them in terms of experience, Dodd and Biden would easily be the “most qualified,” while Obama and Clinton would be the “least qualified.”
But if experience was the only issue, Nixon would have beat Kennedy and Poppy Bush would have been reelected over Bill Clinton
Chris
Re: American politics, yeah, you’re right, there was some dumb sanctioning.
I was more focusing on the global pattern, where as our racist roots are more buried in national history.
Possibly the real deal, but you have to tell me exactly which you’re focusing on for me to give you the answer.
ThymeZone
I don’t care about the design of the site, but a text editor with spell checking would be great, I often post while multitasking and don’t catch the typos. Combined with the lack of editable posts, and a preview mechanism that only works half the time …. a lot of botched material gets posted here. But I suppose that is a Word Press shortcoming and there’s nothing that can be done about it.
4tehlulz
Fixed.
Punchy
Balloon Juicers wouldn’t either.
We’re all now Juicers. Sounds a bit pornographic. Or health freaky. Or maybe I’m just an idiot.
I’m still demanding a YearlyJuice2008. Even Atrios is having one, and we all know how much JC loves Duncan.
Dracula
I think half of Punchies posts would be non-existant if you were able to fix typos.
The guy/gal seems pretty damn genuine and spot-on to me. Certainly no spoof, IMO.
TheFountainHead
I think Mark Penn wanted the women vote bad and that these guys were plants.
Krista
So no Tunch in the hot-air-balloon gondola then? Oh come on!!! It’d be awesome!
Party pooper.
Chris
Use Firefox v2. If that would kill you, try Swiftfox. Now all the miserable mistakes I make in my posts are grammatical, logic, and full-on cornucopic errors.
i need 2 retrn typn lk ths lol
Jon H
“Ballon Juicers wouldn’t pony up $25 grand, huh?”
If I had that kind of money to throw around I’d totally give it to Balloon Juice just to make Red State feel bad.
I’d even try to make part of the contribution in the form of Macs signed by Al Gore.
Chris
Am I getting the Psyche-whatever-guy treatment? Why doesn’t anybody posit their disagreement?
I’m at work. Help me ignore it!
annagranfors
it means approximately the same thing as “Get A Brain! Morans”, which is to say, “I am fat, loud, and white, and can out-Jackass any man in the room!”
Jamey
Oh, I thought it said, “iron my shit.”
Which, come to think of it, is equally weird.
ThymeZone
I’ll try them for that purpose. Results to follow.
Incertus (Brian)
And that differs from sexism how, exactly? The subjugation of women is all about treating them as property, without the ability to make decisions for themselves. It’s at the heart of the anti-choice movement for one, and is present in the rest of society as well, and we don’t get outraged by it the same way we do racism for some reason.
Oh, and neither system is vestigial–they’re both alive and well and doing the jobs the people who use them want them to do. Look at the impossible situation Clinton was put into yesterday–if she shows emotion, she’s weak, but if she doesn’t, she’s trying too hard to be a man. It’s the no-win of all no-wins.
myiq2xu
Funny how the immediate reaction to any over-the-top (or below-the-belt) action or statement that appears to originate on the right is “It was a plant/we were framed.”
I guess we can designate that a Standard Wingnut Response #4
1) It’s Clinton’s fault!
2) Clinton did it too!
3) The Democrats do it too!
4) It was a plant/We were framed!
Pb
Because slavery is totally the same as sexism, right. Let’s try this again. How would people have reacted to a sign telling Obama to “Pimp my ride” or something similar?
The Grand Panjandrum
John et. al from hilzoy(OT but I know you want this info):
TheFountainHead
I actually thought the group of Pro-Lifers that interrupted Obama last night actually scored points for him by letting him handle it the way he did.
Cyrus
This is just as … mistaken as your description of sexism. Racism existed before the slave trade, in more places than just the Americas, between more groups than just blacks and whites. So, explain again why you think comparisons between racism and sexism are invalid, please, because your 10:56 a.m. comment seemed downright incoherent to me.
Dreggas
Oh horse shit, that was planted plain as day, her final comment made it even more apparent:
“That’s one of the things I love about it,” she said. “It’s never predictable.”
Sorry but I call shenanigans. First she cries yesterday, then pulls a cheney saying we need to elect the RIGHT person in case we’re attacked again, then she fucks up by making an unforced error WRT civil rights and now THIS?!
It’s never predictable my ass..
Jake
Firefox runs a spell-check. Of course, if you’re the person who said they didn’t like ffx forget I said anything.
My only issue with editable posts is there are flaming chickenshits who’ll go back and delete/alter their previous posts and then scream “Liar! See? I didn’t say what you said I said!”
Oh well. The internons would be boring without teh psychos.
myiq2xu
It depends on whether they can differentiate snark from insult.
Chris
You know what, in trying to support my original argument, I’m finding that it’s rather unwieldy. I’m trying to compare national racism against global sexism, and that doesn’t make any damned sense. Maybe that’s what others were commenting on.
Lemme boil down my argument to what I was going for, see if it makes more sense:
Because everyone today has somehow observed racism, everyone reacts. Because not everyone today has somehow observed sexism, now everyone reacts.
OK, ignore everything else I said about how that came about. It was rather stupid of me. I was typing faster than I was thinking.
Chris
See above post. You are right, sir. “incoherent”.
Chris
go figure i fuck up my redo of the argument.
Punchy
I’m SO using that!!
Signed,
Larry Craig
myiq2xu
Maybe, or maybe not. I don’t know, but I’d be interested in finding out.
But the knee-jerk reaction on the right and among those on the left with CDS) has been that it was a plant.
If it was a plant then the Clagina put a lot of eggs in that basket cuz if the truth comes out her career is over.
Chris
I would very much like to point out that anyone who states that
, when she’s trying to fill a war-time war-commander position which only men have previously filled, is full-of-shit and hated HRC since ’92
TheFountainHead
Which, if she keeps up this campaign and loses, may be anyway, so what has she got to lose? Besides, you don’t think after the first debacle they haven’t gotten BETTER at planting?
Keith
Has any pundit gone on TV yet to insist that Barack Obama needs to denounce the guy with the wrinkled shirt? That’s the part of the general campaign that I’m least looking forward to (followed a close 2nd by “What kind of message does this send (to the children)?”)
Chris
If it doesn’t work her career is also over. Risks had to be taken
I think Dreggas is spot-on. HRC’s reactions aren’t fitting a human pattern.
Dennis - SGMM
…then pulls a cheney saying we need to elect the RIGHT person in case we’re attacked again…
If we elect the right person then a lot fewer people would want to attack us.
Punchy
OT:
New way to get arrested in Missouri!
“Hey, Bartender! Gimmie a fucking beer and play some Public Enemy so my wife can dance!”
I kid you not.
myiq2xu
So you admit that HRC is human?
/end snark
Actually, I found that to be a fairly typical response by a politician in that situation. She passed it off with a little humor, then moved on.
TheFountainHead
Thanks Punchy.
I didn’t need a reason not to ever visit St. Louis, but now I have one just in case.
TheFountainHead
Well, if it wasn’t a plant she got very lucky that she got ridiculed in THAT way, the same day as her teary moment. I’m sure the combined attack on her womanhood (or whatever) won her some sympathy votes with the older femministas.
The Other Steve
That’s mainly because either of those two groups is prone to doing stupid stunts like putting up signs saying “Iron my Shirts” at a Clinton event.
Fe E
Who’s this “we” that doesn’t get outraged about what now?
I remember thinking Michael Richards was a blowhard asshole when his bit exploded, and I now think that this un-named dude is a blowhard asshole. So from my point of view my reaction seems to be the same.
Am I supposed to rack up frequent flyer miles going to protests across the country every time somebody exposes themselves as an asshole?
I think the lack of violent outrage at this sort of thing is a small, yet hopeful sign for our society: when a person displays overt racism or sexism you don’t need to get the molotovs and bricks in action, making your point and shining light on their actions can get a lot accomplished these days.
Dreggas
She took a page from Mitten’s book of hiring push pollers to “attack his mormonism”. Just given the events of the past 24 hrs it’s apparent that the queen is reeling from the fact that *gasp* she’s not inevitable, no matter the meme she tried to push, and that people really are sick and tired of the SSDD that we’d be getting.
People can breathe the same stale air for only so long before they want a breath of fresh air to blow in.
ThymeZone
For those who watched the Republican debate over the weekend, and heard the Mumblies trying to outdo each other with phrases like “We have the best healthcare in the world,” this dose of reality can be shoved directly up their stupid, lying asses.
What the fuck good does it do to “have” great healthcare in the country when so many people can’t afford to get it?
Unless the goal is to make your fat cat contributors richer, that is, and keep lying to the people about imaginary evils of “socialized medicine.”
Fuck these Republicans very, very much. Oh, and keep a sharp eye out for those greasers that are sneaking across the border, too. They are probably the ones bringing in all the diseases.
dougie
Good decision leaving the site alone. It didn’t need a redesign any more than the Steelers needed Steely McBeam.
Chris
Agreed re: Richards
Also agreed, but I think we’re in a severe minority when we want people to calm the fuck down. Spending too much time on the internet causes you to grow a thick skin.
I still have something of a visceral reaction when I see large ghettos of still-poor black people, but I’m sure we can fix that with methods and time.
ThymeZone
I suggest we start calling the preventable deaths in this country the “Republican Party’s Uninsured American Death Toll.”
Thoughts?
Chris
hmm…
God’s Party’s Uninsured American Death Toll
God’s Party’s Uninsured American Reclaimed Lives Toll
God’s Party’s Miraculous American Reclaimed Lives Toll
God’s Party’s Miraculous Reclaimed American Lives Toll
God’s Party’s Miraculous Reclaimed American Lives Amount
Still a little clunky, but I think they can wiggle out of it.
Jake
Yep. Because a professional pol’s behavior never varies from the human pattern.
Chris
OK, “rational” pattern. Still, she comes out of an event where she was getting teary out of frustration, and then some people tell her to quit and start doing laundry. That usually when most people at least quit for the day, if not their project.
wasabi gasp
“Iron my shirt” is the mating call of selfless men who have devoted their life to being caretakers to mother’s basement.
Dreggas
From what I have seen Hillary is trying the “Fling shit and see if it sticks” strategy and it’s not working. Opinion writers and column writers for news papers are coming forward basically saying clinton people have tried pitching them “dirt” on obama but the dirt turns out to be a non-story, there’s no dirt to dig.
Xanthippas
You might do well to recall that at one time, women were also property. For a lot longer than black slaves were, actually.
Rebuttal:
Obama will not see such a sign. HRC is not permitted to “transcend” her sex.
Jake
So because she didn’t burst into tears or storm off in a huff she must be a phoney. Wait, maybe the tears were phoney too!
It couldn’t be that she was feeling down, saw these dipshits and thought “I’ll show you, bastards.”
Please, I can think of 999 reasons to object to HRC as POTUS but “She didn’t run away when bullied,” is about as lame as it gets.
Chris
Recinded in a previous post above. I was AWS (Arguing While Stupid).
Are you fucking kidding me? Why do people still have trouble with this?
a.) HRC acts like someone who wants to be president. She states her strengths, solid core. She acts stoic.
b.) Dumb-shit redneck says “OH little missy, trying to act like a man, are ya?”
c.) HRC says nothing, continues on like nothing is out of the ordinary.
When you respond to a position, you give it creedence
HRC was completely right to “start acting like a man” or stop being feminine and start acting like a careerperson, but once someone attacked her, she fucking capitulated thereby implying that she’s not allowed to act however she damn well pleases.
HRC is being bullied and she’s caving to it. She’s not ready. Has nothing to do with being a woman.
Watch Obama eat watermelon, get heckled, and then continue to eat watermelon. He knows what he’s doing.
Chris
Correct. It’s the lame forced tears in the event that I’m pointing to, and her calm resolve outside the event gives her away.
Bombadil
The “iron my shirts” guys were plants, but not from the Clinton campaign. They were from a Boston radio station.
Z
Newsbusters said the Iron my Shirt Thing was a stunt by some radio djs.
4tehlulz
1. No they won’t.
2. I’m not surprised. Toucher and Rich make Stern look like high culture. Man, ‘BCN has gone into the shitter the last few years.
TheFountainHead
Okay, now I don’t feel so bad about suspecting the Clinton campaign of being slimey as hell–there WAS something about it that felt inorganic.
Chris
I’m going to walk away from this. I guess I was wrong… not sure what my position was.
But in the back of my head I’m going to secretly think that Mark Penn approached them to do it. Because it makes me feel better. And none of you will know!
muahahahaha
Bombadil
Agreed. They hit the skids when they started turning over their air time to Howard Stern, then Opie and Anthony. Hard to believe that this was the station that Peter Wolf dj’ed for.
Dreggas
Why feel bad to begin with? I know that some support clinton but sorry, wouldn’t put this past her.
Bombadil
Shorter Dreggas and TheFountainHead: “Well, maybe it wasn’t really Hillary, but it coulda been!”
Asshats.
John S.
Cole-
So, you still think Huckabee is a good and sincere candidate?
How about now?
Fe E
Now that is refreshing–a person on teh internets admitting to changing their postion in light of new facts and argumentation. Good job.
I’m being sincere, so many people will argue for ever just because they don’t want to change–let alone seem wrong.
On to other matters; it seems that even though HRC is not my candidate (not even top three) she has clearly gets a very raw deal from all the media. Watching that disgusting thigh rubber Chris Matthews practically drool at the mention of her name is enough to make me change the channel.
In the lataest installment of “Why everybody hates Hillary” read all about it (scroll down for the relevant bit.)
4tehlulz
If Huck is trying to be teh 3dgy candidate, he should come out against the Thirteenth Amendment to the Constitution. It would surprise even the Minuteman contingent of the Republican party.
Brachiator
People have expressed outrage. Steinem has no argument here.
This is absurd on so many levels. There is really no point in trying to rank outrages against humanity. And there is something more than slightly odious in the false contrast of “women” with “black slaves,” as though slaves were not people, or did not include women. And it is sad, but typical, that sometimes, some people appear to exclude black women from the ranks of sisterhood or the historical feminist movement, or see it as something as separate and apart.
Dreggas
I wouldn’t put it past her, sorry but I wouldn’t. Call me an asshat all you want that doesn’t take away from the simple fact that she would say and do anything to become president and acts as if she is entitled. She is learning she isn’t, she’s trying to fling shit that won’t stick and she is losing.
Mike
I thought the joke was:
A man and his secretary travel together to a convention. The hotel is overbooked, so there’s only one room available. They decide that they’re adult enough to share a room with no funny business.
But late that night, and the secretary asks:
“It’s gotten very cold. Could you get up and close the window?”
“You know, there’s another way. Would you like, just for tonight, for us to be like husband and wife?”
“Oh yes, I would.”
“Good. Get up and close it yourself.”
dslak
This is a recurring theme in some areas of cultural criticism, such as subaltern studies. The public face of the oppressed black is male, so the oppression of black women qua blacks and qua women is never widely appreciated.
Hypatia
I’m assuming Chris is a white man. He says everyone has observed racism but not everyone has observed sexism. I think most white men make more observations that involve women than non-white men. Perhaps if one lives in a predominantly white world, one can avoid observing racism. But who lives in a sexually segregated world? Is Chris a monk?
Chris, your revised statement is as stupid as the original.
ThymeZone
Prediction time.
I predict that the big Dem turnout in NH presages an Obama landslide.
Barring the unforseen, I further predict that this contest is all over. The Obama phenomenon will continue, sweep him to the nomination, and then to victory in November.
John McPain, or whoever is unlucky enough to win the GOP nomination, will suffer the fate of Bob Dole and Barry Goldwater. He’ll become a footnote to history.
In November, president-elect Obama will nominate Hillary Clinton to be his Secretary of Laundry.
Just to piss her off.
libarbarian
‘
Huckabee: “I do not support an amendment to the constitution that would prevent children born in the U.S. to illegal aliens from automatically becoming American citizens. I have no intention of supporting a constitutional amendment to deny birthright citizenship.”
I dont love Huckabee but I have little but loathing contempt for anyone who wants to change the birthright citizenship laws. If anyone should be unceremoniously stripped of their citizenship and assets and hurled naked out of this country to fare on their own, it is people who want to pass such an amendment.
ThymeZone
I detest Hucksterbee, but I agree with this.
4tehlulz
Not if HRC and her backers have anything to say about it….
Oh please try to Swift Boat Obama. It would guarantee that he owns 2/5.
The Other Steve
Huckabee is arguing in good faith.
Dreggas
I predict about the same at least with regard to the landslide.
Punchy
So, did any intrepid local drycleaners offer to iron that guy’s shirt? Can you imagine the publicity they’d get if the owner of Mel’s Dry Cleaning and Fishing stepped up with a fistfull of hot iron and Frebreeze in front of 2000 cameras?
TheFountainHead
I lawled but it’s true.
The Other Steve
I’m sure if they asked, John Edwards would be more than willing to help.
TheFountainHead
Prediction: If Obama wins big tonight, Hillary will come out spitting acid at him. Her only other option will be to concede the whole thing. I don’t think her career can afford more losses and/or her going negative for a sustained period.
TheFountainHead
Hugh Hewitt is making an argument against nominating McCain to combat Obama in the general. I would have assumed that McCain was the only one that could give Obama a run for his money in the general (not that I think McCain could beat him, but it would at least be interesting.) but he makes a compelling argument…even for Hugh.
Jon H
“But in the back of my head I’m going to secretly think that Mark Penn approached them to do it”
Yeah, that’s the problem with the Clintons using a sleazemaster whose day job is corporate PR/marketing.
Billy K
Agreed. I know it’s silly to predict anything this early, but this just has the feeling of history being made. I don’t see this wave petering out.
Dreggas
I said it watching him in ’04 at the democratic convention when he gave a speech far more inspiring than our own party’s nominee..”That man is our next president”.
myiq2xu
I read and re-read the story in that link, and I couldn’t find a source for that part of the story. Who said it?
Why would those specific groups (leadership or rank-and-file) be opposed to Obama? Why would they risk pissing him off if he wins anyway?
I’m not saying that no one thought of doing something like that, but I find it hard to believe that those particular organizations would be involved.
Johnny Pez
Not calling you an asshat. Just saying that you’re channeling your inner Chris Matthews.
TheFountainHead
I think that’s far worse than calling him an asshat. I’ll take asshat over “inner Chris Matthews any day.
Dreggas
*rolls eyes* what because I happen to believe Shillary is a manipulative shrew of a woman who is even more triangulating than her husband and who, facing defeat by a “whipper snapper” is going from tearing up one minute to using a right wing talking point to say why she should be president the next? Chris Mathews is a tool, but on this one I’d have to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Brachiator
Nahh. Hewitt is simply being trying to twist his Romney-love from another angle, trying to get people to believe that a Mitt-bot would look younger, more vital, going against Obama.
John S.
You’re an interesting fella, TZ.
You go apoplectic at people on immigration threads when you think they are being anti-immigrant, and yet you want to strip children born here to immigrant parents of their citizenship?
Could you explain your rationale?
myiq2xu
That’s not how I read his comments – pHuckabee opposed changing the law, and TZ agreed with him.
ThymeZone
Sorry, you got it backward. I am against such a move, and for that reason, give a nod to Huckabee, who is also against it … even though I detest him.
Read the subject posts again.
I am interesting, but not for the reason you imagined.
Chris
Fixed
(Not supporting it, but that’s what he’s honestly saying).
ThymeZone
Well if you mean me, then no. Since everyone is having such a hard time with this, maybe this is clearer:
I’m strongly opposed to any change to the Constitution which screws with the Fourteenth Amendment which says:
Does that make it completely unambiguous?
John S.
I’m not sure where the idea that Huckabee opposed changing the law came in, because the link I provided clearly states that Huckabee wants to repeal the 14th amendment.
Here is the lede from this Washington Times story which is not being refuted by Huckabee’s campaign:
If TZ agress with Huckabee as he is described above, then my question stands. If TZ agress with a phantom Huckabee that doesn’t want to strip immigrant children of their citizenship, then I’m on the same page as you.
John S.
Ok, that makes sense.
Someone falsely attributed Huckabee with opposing changing the 14th amendment when in fact he wants to do exactly that.
myiq2xu
From Conan the Librarian:
ThymeZone
I guess I took the quoted blurb as saying that Huckabee opposed repeal of the 14th amendment. The blurb I reference is from the post above at 2:18:
I take that to mean that he doesn’t mean to repeal the 14th.
At this point, thanks to the subsequent confusion, I am not sure what Hcksterbee’s position is, but I know what mine is:
Leave the 14th alone.
ThymeZone
Oh, well in that case, I have yet another reason to think he’s a complete asshole.
Chris
I blame myself for not picking up on this before responding to it. I’m Arguing While Stupid again.
There was a refutation by Huckabee via Sully
Please note it was the Washington Times, so this isn’t impossible.
John S.
I don’t know where libarbarian pulled that quote from (as it has no citation), but the crux of the entire Washington Times article is this:
So know I think we know where Huckabee stands on the issue. And that means you can continue hating him and not agreeing with any of his positions, TZ.
ThymeZone
Gasp. So Huckabee ….. doesn’t want to repeal the 14th?
Okay. Well, he has a few positions that I can stomach, so this might (with confirmation) be one of them.
But I still don’t like him. I take him to be a stealth Jesus candidate, I think he winks at separation of church and state, and I think he is stupid about the world outside of Arkansas. I think he thinks the earth is 6000 years old and I consider that a total disqualification for the job he is running for.
As for the 14th, I want it left alone.
TheFountainHead
Has Obama won yet?
:)
ThymeZone
Why hasn’t the Washington Times called and asked for my position on this?
Why? WHY?
John S.
My guess is:
1) Huckabee let the story fly in the Washington Times hoping to pander to the right-wingers
2) Right-wingers weren’t buying it, as indicated in the Carpetbagger link I posted above
3) Everyone else saw the piece and thought how batshit insane Huckabee is
4) So Huckabee claimed it never happened
I love election season.
Jake
No, because you come across as saying she might have set it up after it has been shown she didn’t set it up.
Chris
Not you. The other post-paunchy white bass-playing Gawd-praising former-minister/governor.
ThymeZone
Oh, well. Okay then. :)
Chris
Oh noes! Say he didn’t have a seeming prejudice against the unassailable one!
Dreggas, the Thought Police have been notified, and will be there as soon as they can figure out with Ron Paul.
myiq2xu
There are many reasons to hate Thymezone, but this isn’t one of them.
/end snark
Chris
goddamn it I need a browser that smacks me upside the head every time I do that. else I’ll never learn.
ThymeZone
Been there and done that.
This will be an interesting and hectic year, I’m sure we are all in for a lot of twists and turns.
ThymeZone
You guys are the wave, I’m just riding it!
Heh.
Dreggas
Hmmm what did I say?
Given everything I’ve seen within the past 24 hours (alone) from the Clinton camp I won’t feel bad for believing that she probably set this up to garner some sort of sympathy.
Sorry I won’t feel bad and nor will I apologize. After all she already had to fess up to having plants at rallies. So no I won’t feel bad, I won’t apologize and I will state once again:
I would not put it past Hillary Clinton to use plants to garner sympathy for her claiming that sexism is to blame for the fact that she is a shitty presidential candidate, IMNHO, who couldn’t inspire a gnat to go bite something.
Chris
See, now you’re talking like Cassidy.
Why is it that all the brutes come out to attack Hillary? This is unfair to her. Why does she never get the easy challenge to refute. It’s her right as a woman to be repaid for all past injustices to women by not being seriously challenged for the nomination. Anyone who challenges Hillary is obviously a chauvinist.
/snark detector calibration benchmark
Punchy
Does anyone know if this includes Peurto Rico (sp?)? Are peeps born there US citis?
TIA
Dreggas
it’s a good thing you posted the snark detector bit…heh
Chris
Really? You thought a Hillary supporter would have said that? I would’ve thought that bit on reparations would have given it away easily. I mean, I was saying that if she gets the nomination, all evils against women would be repaid in full.
I guess they can be that nutty. Maybe.
TheFountainHead
So here’s another prediction: The next move by the Hillary camp will be to not-so-subtly imply that Americans are simply being hoodwinked by the Great Charlatan Barack Obama and that it’s un-American to elect a President this way.
Shorter Prediction: Shorter Hillary: You Americans are fucktards who shouldn’t be trusted, and if you knew what was good for you, you’d vote for me.
myiq2xu
I think Dregs was referring to something (or someone) else.
Let’s keep it clean, and watch the low blows.
I like pie
ThymeZone
After reading this … is a person born in Puerto Rico automatically a US citizen?
I have no frigging idea.
Chris
You’re predicting that Hillary will flame out by demanding a recount of all the primary elections, to the entertainment of everyone but the remaining 5% that support her.
Sullivan just suddenly got rock hard and doesn’t know why.
myiq2xu
Oh Sweet Jeebus, pHuckabee is on the Situation Comedy Room pimping the Fair Tax.
Teh Stoopid! It hurts!
Chris
Answer: It’s arbitrary and completely up to Congress.
ThymeZone
Whoops not so fast. It looks like the Democrat Party really shouldn’t even be voting.
myiq2xu
Arizona is a Native American word meaning “What the Fuck?”
TheFountainHead
I wasn’t even going that far, but yeah…
Chris
wait.
is this…
Are they trying to install a pressure-release in AZ to keep Huckabee from getting the nomination?
I can’t tell if I’m delusional or not. Help?
myiq2xu
Aprroximately 27% of Americans are delusional. Check 3 of your friends/neighbors. If they’re ok, you’re it.
Chris
Nope, can’t be for Huckabee. I’d posit that it’s for future scary Republican elections, but that would be batshit insane of me.
Darkness
Isn’t it just the punchline of a joke? Such things give a phrase more meaning (almost like a brand) by proxy than they have in reality. You know, they way popping a coke in the snow reminds you happily of people singing and swaying with lights despite the fact that no one ever really does that. And if they did it where I live it would be with a thermos of hot chocolate, otherwise their hands would have to be thawed off the glass bottle later.
Oh, and polar bears and penguins, together? Forget the snack potential, think of the SWIM for chryssake! Really, Coca Cola? What the heck are you smokin’?
And ARG! John, you fixed the “o” in the logo but not the “e” and “s”. HERE:
balloon-juice-alt-alt.gif
I even cut the size by 3 K for you in the interest of loading and all. With the colors for the white cut from it the pallet can be smaller without any decline in quality
Dreggas
After seeing Obama 08 equated to Nader in 00 yeah, it was a hard call. That and the first line. I would probably have decked you for it but I’m a liberal so I’ll just provide a follow-up “harsh response”.
John S.
Michael D. is probably ecstatic.
D-Chance.
Those so-called Ron Paul newsletters…
The New Republic breaks the story, so of course, all the sites in Conservative Blaghistan scream “BEAUCHAMP!”, right? Wrong. They’re all (INCLUDING the Weekly Standard) as gleeful as a class of kindergarteners on a field trip to the local ice cream factory.
Politics and bedfellows…
Punchy
Here’s where statistics just dont jive with my reality (emphasis on “my”): 1 in 4 support this clown of a Prez? I don’t know ANYONE who does. Of my 25-30 coworkers, fam, friends, and assorted others, I don’t know a single person who would claim to back this guy. And I’m in a ridiculously red state.
If these polls were done by having large crowds raise their hands to show support (instead of anonymous phone calls), Bush’s approval would prolly be closer to 5%….Nobody wants to be seen by their peers as crazy enough to support this shithead.
r€nato
you’ll thank us later. Trust me. You just saved yourself a huge headache.
Chris
Given who’s pimping, I’d say he’s probably about to give it up for Jee ZUZ
Jake
Try to keep up. It’s his seeming bias against facts that I have a problem with.
If I want “I think X and even though Not X has been proven, I’m going to ignore everything that suggests Not X,” I’ll go hang out with Creationist rubes.
Zifnab
You’re just hanging out in the wrong circles. My friend works in sales at Oracle. That company has a ten foot hard-on for El Presidente. Likewise with anyone in the natural gas or oil industry. Go down to Schlumberger, Exxon, or Halliburton, and ask anyone over 30 who their super most favorite-tastic President of all time is (other than Ronald “Kill’n Communist” Reagen) and try not to let your jaw bounce.
It’s epically said how much love Bush continues to get in the right circles.
TheFountainHead
I don’t believe that’s what he said, he said he wasn’t going to feel bad about thinking X in the first place.
I was too lazy to go back up through the comments and verify this, but I’m pretty sure this is what he meant.
myiq2xu
It’s like Erectile Dysfunction or genital herpes; if you had either one, would you admit it to your co-workers?
myiq2xu
Are you referring to Jesus Garcia, the gardener? Or Jesus Rodriguez, the janitor?
John S.
Exactly. People will be reluctant to admit liking Bush in front of people who may ridicule them or tear down their notion of how awesome they think he is. But in private, or on an anonymous phone call with a pollster they have no problem telling it like it is.
Select 100 men at random and put them in a room and ask them for a show of hands of who has ED and takes Viagra. I guarantee those same 100 men will respond differently to an anonymous poll.
And yes, for the purposes of this metaphor, Bush is exactly like erectile dysfunction.
Darkness
Fixed.
If I hung out in your circles I would start to believe in automatic assault rifles and extra large clips were such nice things because they would mesh with the inevitable cleansing fantasies that would result from exposure to such people.
Hm, there are two interpretations of that, aren’t there? Well, either one is possible depending on whether the result was assimilation or sanity snapping, so I’ll just leave it.
Punchy
Uh……WHAT?? What the fuck does this mean? Anyone? Bueller?
Jake
Sure, and there’s no need for apologies from the people who checked the Frosts’ kitchen counters. But I was replying to this:
Because it doesn’t seem to make it through some tiny minds that one’s like or dislike of a candidate doesn’t change facts.
Zifnab
Well, that’s kinda the thing. Key words are “over 30” and “in a /big company/”. I think I could count roughly 30% of my friends as loyal Bushies when I started college. By graduation, I could count Bush die-hards on one hand. Even my friends in the College Republicans were generally disgusted with him. (Although the Young Conservatives still lite incense to their “Support the Troops” shrines and danced around the Immigrant Deportation Maypole).
If GW is the face of the party for the next 20 years, I seriously doubt the party will still be around by then. But… America got over Nixon just in time to elect Reagen. We’re potentially dumb enough to make Obama into the next Jimmy Carter.
Zifnab
Giuliani isn’t a pitcher, he’s a catcher.
Darkness
Part of it is the “it takes a big (wo)man to admit they are wrong” thing that makes people with tiny egos hang onto beliefs in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Belief in a literal bible benefits from this effect too.
The internet makes it harder to change your mind because many people stupidly put what they believe in print, with a date on it, and so later can’t just claim their friends’ memories are faulty.
Dreggas
What I said was I couldn’t give a rats ass if someone else did it, I wouldn’t put it past her to do it herself because she is that slimy. My opinion is biased, I admit it, but the bottom line is she’s slimey and she would do something like this so no I won’t feel bad that I initially believed it was a plant.
Zifnab
Well, your opinion is biased towards the facts. We know Hillary has used plants before. Ergo, it is not outside the bounds of reason to assume she would use a plant again.
Dreggas, your willingness to weigh Clinton’s sliminess against crazy conservative stupidity makes me disagree with you. I’d sooner believe some idiot decided to picket a Clinton rally with an “I’m a moron” sign than believe her campaign would need to pay someone to do it. It’s just Occum’s Razor that I’m resting on. I will concede the possibility of premeditated shenanigans definitely exists.
Kewalo
YAAAAAAAAAHOOOOOOOOOO! Thank you so much for deciding not to change the site. It’s so perfect as it is it would have been a big mistake. What a relief…I am so happy I’m going to have a Myer’s and coke.
I think that the dolt that yelled out about the ironing is either old or from a part of the country where women still do the ironing. Wait a minute…is there someplace left where women do the ironing?
Bob In Pacifica
First off, if I was in that crowd “Iron my shirt” would have offended me as much a “Go pick cotton.” I would have probably told the guy to “s*ck my d*ck, *ssh*le,” or something equally appropriate.
However, beware of graven images. Gloria Steinem has been working as a provocateur for the CIA since the 50s. Google “Steinem” “CIA” and “Redstockings.” In the mid-sixties she admitted her work for the Agency in an article in the NYTimes, coincidentally, since they’re still printing her op-eds. Then she worked with Clay Felker (google “Clay Felker” and “CIA”) and ran Ms. Magazine with CIA seed money. Her second, and enduring job for the Agency has been to use feminism as a means of dividing and conquering the Left. Whenever she jumps into an issue it’s for the purpose of fracturing the Left.
The FBI and CIA in the sixties saw any progressive movement as a target to be penetrated and controlled. I specifically recall reading an FBI memo speculating that feminism could be used to divide the anti-war movement. We all remember COINTELPRO, don’t we?
Considering the list of mass murderers and reactionary apparatchiks on whose arm Steinem’s rested (Kissinger and Stanley Pottinger, for ex), and how many times she’s on the wrong side of an issue, it’s surprising that she’s still got any tread left on the Left, but some true believers still worship at her altar. So this morning I noticed some bloggers quoting her and some commenters saying, “Yeah, women suffer more than black men” but I don’t think that’s got much mileage.
Here’s a link reprinting the 2/21/67 NY Times article where Steinem admits working for the CIA and apologizing for the CIA: http://www.namebase.org/steinem.html
Krista
Does throwing wrinkly stuff into the dryer with a damp towel for 20 minutes count as ironing?
HyperIon
Steinem asks an interesting question:
If Obama were a woman, would everybody be jumping on the bandwagon?
Personally I don’t need or want inspiring speeches. I am looking for competence: knowledge, careful thinking, substance. I am made nervous by Obama’s clear appeal to emotions. I don’t like his plan for universal health coverage..because it is not universal. The guy has been a senator for just three years. And finally I was surprised at how off-putting his wife was this weekend on CSPAN. (Better that Mitt’s wife or the Huckster’s, but that’s not saying much.)
When HRC reminds us that it is easy to promise change but much more difficult to effect it, I think she knows whereof she speaks. Which is not to say that I’m keen on her candidacy either.
I’m just put off by the whole pep rally atmosphere. Crowd mentality is always a negative in my book.
robuzo
“Steinem’s column raises a valid point: How would people have reacted to a sign telling Obama to “Go pick cotton” or something similar?”
“Iron my shirt” is Archie Bunker; “Go pick cotton” is KKK. Not quite the same.