While Obama has, his campaign has not:
Sen. Barack Obama’s presidential campaign has prepared a detailed memo listing various instances in which it perceived Sen. Hillary Clinton’s campaign to have deliberately played the race card in the Democratic primary. [See the full memo here.]
The memo, which was obtained by the Huffington Post and has been made public elsewhere, is believed to have been given to an activist and contains mostly excerpts from different media reports. It lists the contact info and name of Obama’s South Carolina press secretary, Amaya Smith, and is broken down into five incidents in which either Clinton, her husband Bill, or campaign surrogates made comments that could be interpreted as racially insensitive.
The document provides an indication that, in private, the Obama campaign is seeking to capitalize on the view – and push the narrative – that the Clintons are using race-related issues for political leverage. In public, the Obama campaign has denied that they are trying to propagate such a perception, noting that the document never was sent to the press.
Look- when Jesse Jackson, Jr. went on MSNBC last week and was interviewed by Norah O’Donnell, it was clear what he was saying when he made the remark that (and I paraphrase) “Hillary cried about questions regarding her appearance but not for the Hurricane Katrina victims and the 45% of African-American voters in South Carolina know where they get their inspiration,” it was clear it was about to get all racial in South Carolina. And it was clear what their strategy would be and that it was sanctioned, as no one from the Obama camp has said a peep about Jackson’s obnoxious words.
I am not saying it is a stupid or bad strategy, but I would like all the “Obama is above all that” bullshit artists in the media and on the web to put a sock in it. Everything the Clinton camp (or as it is the case right now, people who merely support Clinton but who are not with the campaign) says will now be labeled racist, and a gullible few will suck it up.
In the comments yesterday, someone claimed Bill Clinton dismissing Obama as a “kid” was racist. “Why not just call him boy,” the commenter asked? If we are now to the point where snidely and dismissively calling someone a “kid” can be transmogrified into “boy” which is code for “nigger,” then anything and everything you say is now racist. And that is a level of absurdity this campaign does not need.
Do people REALLY think Andrew Cuomo is racist? Or Bill and Hillary Clinton? Really? Seriously? Are the Obama supporters really claiming that “fairy tale” is the new dogwhistle to lure southern voters? Really? Seriously?
And no, this does not mean I dislike Obama. It does not mean I will not support him. I just think he is getting a free ride, and I think his campaign is no different from anyone elses while pretending to be above it all. It is bullshit. And before you claim I have an Obama obsession, it is primary season. What else do you want me to talk about?
*** Update ***
Noted racist (and yes, that is sarcasm) Josh Marshall has some thoughts.
I am also perfectly willing to admit that I may not see what many in the Obama camp are seeing.
Harley
Gee, I dunno. Something that doesn’t unhinge you? Hey, how about the Giants! As for the memo, the race card stuff is more easily refuted (your goal in this, I’m assusming) but it’s Surrogates Pushing the Drug Story that is getting the most play (that you managed to ignore). The latter is an old trick. And listening to President Clinton deny the obvious — and yeah, I know, that’s how the game is played — is one blast from the past I could do without.
Others, less so.
Jen
Ooh, just wait for the SC push-polling about whether you’d think more or less of Obama if you learned he had TWO multiracial babies!
myiq2xu
I guess it’s “get whitey” week at the Magical Unity Pony Headquarters
Jake
Dude, if you’re bothered by what the gullible few will believe maybe you ought to take a nap until Dec. 2009.
If the past two presidential elections have shown us anything it’s that a few suckers aren’t the problem.
carolyn13
I think the whole thing is ugly and depressing on the part of both candidates. This historic choice we are being offered is descending into the same old mud pit we wind up in every four years and we haven’t even reached the general. Bah, humbug.
peach flavored shampoo
I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that John doesn’t too much care for Obama.
myiq2xu
Actually there is an underlying assumption in this whole meme and that is the idea that everything Hillary, Bill and every one of her supporters say in every situation was carefully planned and scripted.
Not just speeches, but every single interview, article or off-the-cuff comment.
Of the myriad accusations made against the Clinton’s over the years, racism was never one of them.
The whole “Sister Souljah” kerfluffle back in 1992 was seen as an attempt by Bill to distance himself from the black community because he was perceived as being too close and beholden to them.
When Bill left the White House, he opened an office in Harlem. He’s been referred to as the first “black” President fer Jeebus sake!
Dreggas
Hey you dance with “who brung ya”. Hillary keeps putting her foot in it and using surrogates, it’s even slimier than the usual Clinton crap which makes it all the more believable.
Everyone know what Robert Johnson was saying, everyone also knows he’s a douchebag. Of course he’s one of the usual douchebags supporting Clinton, why? because he needs the old racist saws to still stick around. If a black man made it to the white house he, Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton would be, image wise, out of work.
This isn’t so much a defense of Obama as it is pointing out plain simple fact. The Clintons are playing dirty pool, they’re acting just like the republicans. Hell the Teachers Union in Nevada is now suing to stop allowing at large caucus sites so casino workers can caucus, they had no problem with it before Obama won the backing of the culinary workers but now suddenly it’s “disenfranchising”. The teachers union won’t endorse anyone, but their leadership who brought the suit? All hillary backers.
You can sit there and talk about Unity ponies, obviously that shit ain’t flying or we’d be hearing about Bloomberg running for Unity ’08. Bottom line here is Clinton is being a complete and utter douchebag and that goes for her husband too. She can try to cover the stink all she wants with faux shock but it’s the truth.
Oh and I’ll take a fucking pony over anything the republicans offered and anything the clintons offer any day. Why? Because the 80’s are dead, the 90’s are dead, the 50’s through 70’s are dead and they should all be left that way. It’s time to move the fuck on because we have enough shit in the present to worry about.
TheFountainHead
You know, not to be too simple in my response to all this, but frankly, there’s a lot of
talking pointsshit coming out of both Democratic campaigns, all the Republican campaigns, the current Administration, the Liberal bloggers, and the Wingers right now that I don’t buy into and would like to hear less of. Tough shit. Welcome to an election. Votes aren’t won by candidates, they’re won by campaigns, and they aren’t won with the truth or reality, they’re won by perception. Change that, then come talk to me about what meme you may or may not think is “bullshit”.John Cole
Let’s nip that shit in the bud. Clinton’s office is in Harlem because he got nailed trying to open a much more expensive one elsewhere. Harlem was not his first choice.
John Cole
Fine by me, just quit pretending the Obama campaign has “transcended” all of it.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Hey, I love the dude, but it would be miraculous if he could control a presidential campaign’s internal emotional level.
Since Clinton is just about done rotating the barrel of the howitzer to Obama’s direction, a lot of Obama staffers are going to get pissy, especially since they went into this with “the best of intentions” (don’t we all?).
And Obama now has to choose whether to get dirty (unlikely), ignore it (look blind), or keep digging his campaign out of the mud (look like he can’t manage people).
He’s not going to get a free ride John. He wanted to play the fair way, and that’s always the most expensive way to get to the finish line.
I’m going to hate what’s coming…
myiq2xu
They are suing because those special arrangements help the culinary union while at the same time the teachers will miss the caucuses because they will be at work too.
Elvis Elvisberg
This is Rovianism. The Clinton campaign is attacking Obama on Iraq.
Also, as Josh Marshall put it, “We seem to be at the point where there are now two credible possibilities. One is that the Clinton campaign is intentionally pursuing a strategy of using surrogates to hit Obama with racially-charged language or with charges that while not directly tied to race nonetheless play to stereotypes about black men. The other possibility is that the Clinton campaign is extraordinarily unlucky and continually finds its surrogates stumbling on to racially-charged or denigrating language when discussing Obama.”
One stray Jesse Jackson Jr. comment != Bob Kerrey + Johnson on NBC + Shaheen.
And of course, when Obama’s camp responds, they’re “playing the race card.”
myiq2xu
Are you saying that the Clinton’s are gonna make him fight dirty?
St. Barack? He’s gonna start shoveling Magical Unity Pony shit?
Mike P
Well, it’s all very ugly now, but what would you have Obama do, John? He can sit there and grin and bear it and he’d be accused of not standing up for himself (and the ugly attacks would become fact because they had not been refuted). If he responds, he’s just another politician. It’s lose-lose for him.
Having said that, the Obama campaign was dumb to include the “fairy tale” comment in the brief (it was actually dumb to release a brief at all, IMO) because it’s pretty clear that one was not about race at all. It was about the “free pass” that Bill Clinton claims Obama is getting on the war (Hillary went on MTP press yesterday and completely distorted Obama’s record on that point, but that’s par for the course).
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Hey, don’t look at me. I’ve only said that Obama transcended it. Or more accurately, never got into it in the first place.
Person obama = new Person("Barack Hussein Obama");
Campaign obama4prez = new PresidentialCampaign(obama);
return obama == obama4prez;
Hint: The value is
falseDreggas
Hmmm teachers working at schools on a saturday, hardly. And why was this not a concern back when it was setup or for that matter before the union endorsed Obama? But now, following the endorsement it’s suddenly the worst thing ever despite the fact the national and state party agreed on how it would be setup and it was signed off on. Then again I guess IOKIYAHRC.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
They’re going to try, of course. The question is what he chooses, because he’s going to have shit choices because he ran out to no-man’s-land where nobody is campaigning. But we all know that humans in groups are always stupid enough to take the bait.
… you remember how the IQ of a sample populace approaches 100 as the sample reaches 100% of the available population?
The Grand Panjandrum
It’s your blog, so I guess the point of this blog is to scrutinize politicians? And I don’t have a problem with that. Each one of them should be scrutinized, mocked, and trashed on a regular basis. Isn’t it reasonable to assume, based on these observations, that people fall in love with these rat-bastards? Jesus! This entire system of candidate selection is the political equivalent of Battered Spouse Syndrome? They sweet talk you, gain your confidence–then–POW! You get punched in the teeth for nothing.
So go ahead and trash away! I don’t worship Obama. I don’t love Obama. (I learned my lesson with Jimmy Carter.) Obama is a politician, and therefore worthy only of fair scrutiny at every turn. But, I will vote for Obama based on his common sense approach to most issues. Every candidate has surrogates we find distasteful, and in some cases, reprehensible (Mark Penn comes to mind). Most of this is political circus begun by the Clintons. No big surprises, we just didn’t know what direction they would take to retain the dynasty.
TheFountainHead
I call bullshit. The Caucus date and time have been in stone for a very long while now, this suit is being brought now because of where the endorsement went.
Dulcie
Not true – the caucus is next Saturday, January 19th. I’ll be participating. This is all about punishing the Culinary workers and SEIU for endorsing Obama.
LiberalTarian
Being accused of being racist simply because you are white is enormously insulting. Progressives have spent a lifetime accepting racial culpability for events we had no part in (i.e., slavery and real racism) while leaning over backwards to make up for it.
Crying racism makes Obama and his supporters look like the kind of people who would make excuses for OJ Simpson and Michael Jackson, stage Twanda Brawley-esqe victim campaigns, and generally pull the racial victim card every time someone disagrees with them. What’s he gonna do, cry racism every time he doesn’t get his way with Congress??
And, at this point, I do wonder. This will be a pyrrhic victory for team Obama. It’ll destroy his “transcendent” candidacy, and damage the Democratic party. One of the best things we have over the Republicans is that we don’t have a “southern strategy.”
myiq2xu
From Talk Left:
Justin
I just wish you would say why you dislike Obama so much, instead of just mocking his campaign.
I’m certainly not in love with Obama, but when it’s a choice between him and Pro-War Hillary. Obama looks pretty good.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Really? I call this a “blog”.
I call John Cole a “hoo-mahn bee-ing”
I call this stuff “text”
I call that red stuff people are drinking “kool-aid”
Obvious bullshit is obvioussssssss.
Too bad courts don’t get to make even those distinctions.
TheFountainHead
So they should be suing for a special caucus for their union, and not trying to shit all over the Casino worker’s caucuses!! When the hell did it become cool for the Democratic party to PREVENT people from voting!! This lawsuit, while it may have some extraneous merit of its own, is purely political in its execution and if you can’t see that you must be looking at your own colon polyps.
ThymeZone
As I said to an adjacent thread, I think it’s a huge mistake for Obama supporters to suggest race as the basis for campaign hardball, or to try to parse race out of everything that comes down the campaign conveyor belt.
Obama doesn’t need to do that sort of thing to win black votes or any other votes. Whether his friends know that or not, I’m not sure, after listening to the Johnson speech yesterday.
–USNews&World Report
If race is suddenly a part of this campaign, I am seeing Obama supporters as the source, and if I were Obama, I would tell them to step back from it. I don’t think it’s called for, and I don’t think it helps him.
Dreggas
myiq2xu,
Again they could have bitched about it back when it was setup in the first place…back in the spring. It’s only now, since Obama has the culinary workers, that the leadership is persuing this lawsuit. It’s a bullshit attempt to stop the Culinary Workers Union members from voting in the caucus. They can put as much lipstick on the pig as they want but it’s stull a pig.
As “concerned” about voter disenfranchisement that they claim to be the Clintons sure love trying to disenfranchise people first it was bitching about the caucuses in Iowa, then the open primaries in New Hampshire, now this in Nevada. I thought they wanted everyone to be able to vote? Oh wait, they do as long as you vote for them.
Fuck. That.
Dulcie
If this was an issue for the teacher’s union, why are they now making a big stink? This was approved by all parties back in March of 2007, including the group that’s bringing the lawsuit.
The Grand Panjandrum
Interesting choice you make here. Bill Clinton going on Al Sharpton’s radio show last week was the nail in the coffin for me. It is no different than a conservative going on Rush Limbauh’s show. Bill going on that inflammatory bigot’s show says a lot about his intentions.
grumpy realist
I don’t see John hating Obama; I see him being miffed at a lot of the hoo-haa being churned forth by his self-proclaimed followers. (“Put a sock in it, you idiots, Obama ain’t the Second Coming.”)
And now over on the *republican* side….
(I think I’m going to go cold turkey on politics and political blogs until the day before the election. See you guys in September!)
ThymeZone
I don’t have a problem with it. The Clintons are well in bounds by asserting that they have the right to ask for black votes. Whether they get them or not, we’ll see.
The Grand Panjandrum
Here’s the link to the Bob Johnson video. It should be pretty obvious what he is saying.
myiq2xu
Why do Obamaniacs equate disagreement with opposition?
I’ve been following politics for nearly 30 years now, and I haven’t seen any saints or virgins running for high office. There were some that claimed to be, some I even believed, but in reality they all had feet of clay.
That’s why I ignore pretty speeches and scoff at the starry-eyed dreamers who think their candidate is “different.”
The Obamaniacs need to quit getting their panties in a twist because somebody is trying to sully Barack’s sainted reputation.
Magical Unity Ponies have to shit too, and it don’t smell like roses.
John Cole
There is no question that Bob Johnson was talking about drug use.
On the other hand, here is Michelle Obama playing the race card herself.
ThymeZone
The metaphor committee called and said they’d like to see you as soon as possible. And bring your hall pass.
Sinister eyebrow
I’m surprised I haven’t seen any comments following along the lines of “phony controversy ginned up and sustained by the media.” That’s mostly what it looks like to me.
I thought HRC’s comment was pretty tame, looking at it from the perspective of comparing someone who is an “inspirational figure” (MLK) to someone who was known for his bare-knuckled, arm-twisiting political style (LBJ)and what it took to get the civil rights act passed. The inspiration could only go so far, it was the arm-twisting tough executive that got it all the way to law. It could only be perceived as racist if that’s what you were really hoping it would be (I can just imagine Chris Matthews praying at his bedside every night for someone, anyone to say something he could call a gaffe and use to blather on and fill airtime). Of course, all the clowns on TV were either too stupid or willfully blind to this and immediately jumped on it as somehow comparing MLK to LBJ.
I think it’s dumb, it’s another distraction focusing on style and tone to avoid looking at substance just like the HRC tearing up moment. The clipped quotes being used by Russert and the other usual suspects are designed to make it worse.
Talking heads need to keep one another entertained, and that’s really all this is. The fact that they think it’s substance is just sad.
TheFountainHead
Two old sayings come to mind:
“You play the hand you’re dealt.”
“If you aren’t fighting fire with fire, you’re probably pissing into the inferno.”
Adam
Actually there is an underlying assumption in this whole meme and that is the idea that everything Hillary, Bill and every one of her supporters say in every situation was carefully planned and scripted.
It doesn’t matter if it’s scripted or not. The LBJ/MLK comment, “shuck and jive,” “kid,” “around the neighborhood,” and the union lawsuit in Nevada, all leading up to South Carolina, looks like a strategy, and a dirty one at that, stupidly front-loaded this weekend so it’ll dominate the news cycle for the week — the way the Clinton campaign is handling this is tone-deaf.
They keep bringing it up, and the justification in each case has been “you’re misinterpreting us, we’re not racist.” Wrong answer. The smart response is, “I now see why ‘kid’ might have come off the wrong way, especially in the heated exchanges of the last week, and I apologize to Senator Obama for that. I was trying to point out real differences I see between Hillary and Barack’s experience, but that was a poor way of putting it. If Senator Obama is willing, I’m sure we’d all like to return to how the Democratic Party plans to put this nation back on track after eight years of Bush.”
Obama was doing Hillary a huge favor in NH by helping her humanize her image without doing a calculated image makeover — and she has more to gain than anyone by elevating the level of discourse. Hillary’s smart, experienced, has a command of the issues, and she’s actually not the bad person she’s been made out to be, but she never shows it. When she just went for it in NH, she did great, but then she fell back on the Mark Penn playbook, because that’s what’s safe.
Safe doesn’t win Presidential elections. Hillary has the same problem Gore did; they’re both decent human beings who got into politics because they cared (and they still do), but they hide, because they don’t trust themselves. Hillary especially has been so harshly judged that she can’t step away from her defensive political persona — she rarely puts anything on the line personally, because in the past Republicans have savaged her for it.
But Obama won’t, and she has a golden opportunity here to change public perceptions of her before the general, and she’s totally blowing it. Going negative is the wrong way to beat Obama (it plays to his strengths) and it’s sure as hell not going to help her even if she does get nominated. This is amateurish strategy, and it’s not going to cut it for me anymore.
ThymeZone
Bwuhhhuh? That second one is an “old saying?”
Where, at the Home for Insane Firemen?
myiq2xu
This response encapsulates Obamaniac logic:
“Obama is a saint, it’s not his fault that he has to play dirty, it’s Clinton’s fault!”
Hmmmm. What is Standard Wingnut Response #1?
1) It’s Clinton’s fault!
It’s no wonder that St. Obama appeals to conservatives.
TheFountainHead
My father used to say it all the time. He’s old. Ergo, “old saying”.
ThymeZone
True, but getting pulled off-message isn’t a good idea either. But anyway ….
We might just be seeing two camps getting out of control here and putting their candidates into an unfortunate position.
Suppose Hillary and Barack came out on stage and just hugged and kissed and sang We Shall Overcome together?
My question is, who wins that event? Which one gets the vote advantage? I honestly have no idea. Any more than I can tell you how the current contretemps plays out in terms of votes.
ThymeZone
Ah.
TheFountainHead
Actually, my point WASN’T that it was Clinton’s fault. Frankly, I don’t think either campaign intended or is/was prepared for where this race thing has taken them. My point is that the cat is outta the bag, and they can’t ignore it. How they deal with it will be interesting.
LiberalTarian
It’s true: I haven’t given enough credit to the media-loves-a-melodrama aspect of the racism aspect. But, there are certainly lots of people going on TV (Jesse Jackson, Jr.) and making it an issue.
What I think both candidates ought to do is make ME happy. Show us which candidate is going to pile drive Bush and Co.! {Dreaming is free. Sigh.}
myiq2xu
“Oh, no, St. Obama would never play hardball like that!”
If he won’t, then fuck him, cuz he’s not up to the job.
anon
This is a form of dog whistle politics. The Clintons are blowing the whistle hard, its driving the African American community nuts just as its intended, but white americans just don’t see anything wrong with Clinton and the whistle, but are pissed off at the African American community for getting pissed off.
Congratulations on being played John.
Mike P
As an Obama supporter, I can get why people don’t like the “hope” or “change” thing. I get that. And I get that people are annoyed that he is being portrayed as “transcendent” (to use Mr. Cole’s word of the moment). Past that, though, there just seems to be a lot of “let’s tear down the new kid” stuff that is kind of shitty, IMO.
myiq2xu
What was the meaning of the “fight fire with fire” metaphor then?
Mike P
myiq2xu’s last comment gets at the heart of the matter…if Obama does nothing, he’s a pussy who can’t stand up to the right wing smear machine. If he does fight back, he’s “just another politician”. I really would like for someone to offer up a suggestion as to how Obama can debunk false claims, not play the race card and be positive all at the same time.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
OK, you’re living in a dream world, and I’m thinking you’ve never been in a room with career people with their heads in the clouds.
The most charitable you can be to Hillary is that she
a.) Wants to be President, and
b.) Wants to be elected to get there, and
c.) Have a favorable outcome when she leaves.
This is only the next step in a career-minded lawyer in the public sector. This has nothing to do with good will, it has to do with accomplishment, won fairly. She might have some good-will, somewhere, but that’s not her motivation at all.
I say nothing re: Obama on this matter because I can’t figure him out, and I completely admit he may turn out to be the same thing.
Jake
Someone, somewhere will carefully analyse the length of the hug and kiss, the expressions on the huggers’ faces, who pulled away first, who looked the most sincere while singing, the expressions of their respective spouses and anyone else in the shot and depending on the axe they wish to grind determine either:
HRC is a racist.
or
BHO is a sexist.
And, John C will bite his keyboard in half.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
That’s not all. He has to do it while looking engaged with the issue. He can’t “transcend” this one.
Adam
Give me a fucking break. You call people “maniacs,” “starry-eyed dreamers,” you make a weak, sexist jab, and you call their candidate a “Magical Unity Pony,” and somehow they’re dragging down the discourse by asking why you’re being a dick?
I’m OK with Obama being human. I don’t think he’s a saint, and he could be handling some of this a bit better, but he’s a pretty good politician, and that’s reason enough to vote for him. The Clinton campaign, though, is being amateurish and short-sighted; the clumsy way they’ve handled this has created an internal firestorm in the Party that’ll hurt us going into the general. I just want to be able to trust Hillary to not pull a Gore or a Kerry, and then I’ll be perfectly happy to support her. But this is just dumb.
TheFountainHead
Meaning, there’s a flame war going on and if you don’t come prepared to throw a little flame here and there, you’re not only not very bright, but you will be perceived as weak.
The Other Steve
I’m not very happy with how Hillary is responding to all of this. I actually think she’s demonstrating an inability to respond to the kinds of attacks on wording that Kerry suffered in 2004.
That being said. I hope Obama is not sending Jesse Jackson out as a surrogate. I can’t stand that guy.
myiq2xu
Listen, I don’t mind hardball politics, in fact I’m happy to see it played on the Democratic side for once. And i don’t think the Clinton’s are entirely innocent either, although claiming the “kid” and “fairy tale” statements were even remotely racist is ridiculous.
But it’s annoying to listen to the Obamaniacs gushing about how his Magical Unity Pony will turn farts into sunshine and shit into candy. And it’s even more annoying to put up with them getting the vapours over something the Clintonites are doing when Obama is doing it too.
Obama is not only human, he’s a politician, one of the lowest forms of life on Earth. So is Hillary.
Adam
Frankly, I don’t even care if it’s genuine, I just care that she showed she can act like it, but now she’s not. It’s ridiculous.
I don’t know if you’ve seen the Spike Jonze short of Gore right before the 2000 election, but he’s a really nice, personable funny guy the whole time — when I watch it, I think, “YOU DUMBASS! If you’d just acted like yourself in the election, you would have won!”
I used to be worried about Hillary because she looks like she’s a calculating careerist, and it’s really obvious, but now that she’s shown that she can actually act like a real human being I just find myself frustrated.
The Other Steve
Aye. Clinton’s not playing dog whistle politics, she’s playing the John Kerry/Al Gore, “I don’t know how to respond to attacks on my wording” playbook.
This is amateur night. She’s being defensive. You don’t do that, dumbshit.
Kynn
Why do you assume that they’re not?
I’m serious here; I don’t know what is magical about Cuomo or the Clintons that they’d have rid themselves of all racism somehow.
(Note: Black support for Bill or Hillary Clinton — “the first black president” stuff — does not mean that the Clintons are non-racist.)
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
First attempt:
He mentions that the Race Card exists, and stipulates he’s been trying to avoid using it and wishes to continue doing so. He, afterwards, denies the claims flat out, while also denying that it takes the race card to be a dick.
He shows he’s trying to be positive, denies the claims, refuses to touch the race card itself, and still tags his attackers as out-of-line, without saying they’re racist.
Seems too simple to work, really, but I’m not a poli-sci person.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Don’t. The math on this is simple.
She can act like like a wounded human being when she’s wounded. If she gets the presidency, guess what: she’s not wounded, and therefore will have no need to be a full-on human being. She can continue to act as her self-assured self.
If you like Hillary-as-human, then destroy her career.
Pooh
Even though I disagree (strongly) with the substance of John Cole’s Obama Opinions, I for one welcome the return of cranky-ass-bitch John Cole as long as it extends to all topics.
KCinDC
Can someone get Cindy Sheehan over to John’s house pronto so he can go back to obsessing about someone other than Obama?
myiq2xu
“I am innocent of the false and malicious allegations made by my opponent, but I am not accusing her of doing such a low-down thing as playing the “race-card.”
“Does anybody want to ride my Magical Unity Pony?”
Adam
I don’t mind hardball politics; it’s that this is a stupid issue to pick a fight on. You do not screw around on race or gender issues. There is no way to handle it properly. Period. Obama’s not handling it well, either, because it’s simply not possible. But it’s clear that he doesn’t want to play this game. He’s carefully avoided it, because he’s can’t not respond to this sort of thing.
The bottom line is that they don’t have to be picking this fight. They have plenty of other angles that don’t involve political minefields. Clinton showed in the last debate that she can play hardball, and I now think she stacks up well against Obama when she’s not in robot-mode. But playing dirty baseball makes everyone look bad, it reinforces all the wrong stereotypes about Clinton, it creates bad blood, and it doesn’t advance the ball substantively. This is a dumb tactic.
Punchy
Anyone know if John McCant is married? If so….ever notice how, unlike every other candidate, his spouse is never talked about?
Freddie’s got a gold digger, Rudy’s had 3, Edwards’ is rich, the Clenis, etc. But no one ever says a word about McCant’s spouse/girlfriend. Pourquoi?
myiq2xu
That link is Priceless!
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
You keep using that phrase like unity in itself wouldn’t be a good thing for the whole of the nation.
If you want to pick on Obama for not putting out policy in his appearances, by all means…
myiq2xu
I call BULLSHIT!
Read John’s original post:
They want to have their cake and eat it too.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
He is. She’s OK looking. She’s out of the spotlight. “How” is a good question, but I’m betting that McCain says “no”, and nobody says “fuck you” to a war vet who was tortured.
Mike P
Seriously, I don’t know what anyone wants to continue to re-live the atmosphere of the last eight years. I guess it’s now time the airing of grievances by the left and we’re now entering the feats of strength portion of the Political Festivus that is the primary season.
billyboo
I don’t think the Clintons are trying to attract racist whites. They’re never going to win those votes either way– they’re too associated with .
The game they’re playing is to piss off black people, because they’ve realized that blacks are more likely to support Obama after Iowa. The thing is, like it or not, Obama’s race is a plus so long as he’s “transcended” race. But it’s a liability for many white voters if blackness is shoved in their faces. If suddenly Obama isn’t the post-racial messiah, but is part of the same Sharpton crowd everyone is used to, that’s enough to push a lot of whites away from him.
The pattern is all little things, ambiguous statements that african americans hear one way and whites hear another.
Then you get people like JJ Jr and Donna Brazille crying racism and rushing to Obama’s defense.
Suddenly, Obama’s own blackness is activated, you might say–white voters will start to associate him with “race-carders,” i.e. blacks who speak in terms of racial identity. Enough of the white voters will say, “I don’t see what the Clintons are saying that’s so bad,” and will decide that Obama is in fact playing that same old race card.
So the Clintons aren’t racist, but I think they are playing on white people’s fear/disapproval of angry black voters by trying to stir up some of that anger in ways whites can’t relate to.
It’s a smart strategy really, because anything that makes Obama talk about race in a defensive way will likely hurt him with white voters. And you can’t say it’s out of bounds, because anyone attacking a black president will try to make him look like just that–a *black* president first and foremost, who represents a single, disaffected minority group rather than a broad coalition. Obama will get this stuff every step of the way if he’s elected, so we have to see how well he can handle it now.
billyboo
too associated with the “first black president” thing to get anyone to really believe they’ll advance a racist agenda, is what I meant to say in my first paragraph.
myiq2xu
I keep using it to heap scorn on the “Obama will unify us” theme, because for the last 7 years, “unity” has meant “drink the Kool-aid.”
I don’t want to elect a Democrat who will sell us out in order to appeal to wingnuts.
If Obama is so fucking wonderful at persuasion, get those motherfuckers to join us over here on the left.
Dreggas
And yet you’d vote for hillary?
bonk
John Hodgman, former literary agent, almanicist, and PC, lays it out for the John Coles of the world:
Doug H.
Hi, we’re from the DLC. You might remember us from selling you out in order to
appeal‘triangulate’ with wingnuts. Guess which candidate we’re supporting this year?Dreggas
That’s what he means, convincing the other side your arguments are best (and yes there are some reasonable ones on the other side) and converting them to your cause.
It does not mean triangulation ala the Clintons. You want that, vote for clinton. You want Unity ’08 then by all means go and draft Bloomberg. Obama’s talk of unity means uniting the people and bringing them to our side. I never once have heard him say that we need to do what the republicans wanted.
myiq2xu
I’d hold my nose and vote for her in the general election, but not in the primary.
myiq2xu
My criticisma are intended for the starry-eyed Obamaniacs who keep
pimpingpushing him like he’s the Second Coming. If you read all my comments, I said I liked the fact that Obama is playing hardball, but I don’t think he is a saint.(I struck the racially insensitive term lest anyone think I was a member of HRC’s campaign)
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Ahh, yes, the “my policies are better than everyone else’s policies” belief. I used to be like that, until I realized that people’s severe mental deficits (I can has creationism in schools?) are easily washed out by common good-will and time (I can has intelligent design mentioned in a paragraph after you teach evolution?)
Obama can’t sell you out, the left has nothing but moral outrage to give. That’s not necessarily your fault, the Right put you into the mideast clusterfuck, but you’re stuck regardless. You’ve got two options: Hurt the Right, or don’t hurt the Right. And of course the Right will get to apply that choice to the Left when they come back into power next generation.
I’m not going to say Obama is the best for administrating the job — maybe Hillary is — but at least he’s smart enough to understand that the Right will hurt back later. And this country can’t keep taking hits like torture and preemptive occupations.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
You’re not going to find those people here. People that drink the blood of their enemies are almost always incapable of having a calm conversation. And if they are capable, they’ll prepend and append their statements with “w00t GOBAMA!!!!”.
Normal people here. Relatively.
magisterludi
I wonder if Imus has weighed in on all the racsist shit?
myiq2xu
If Obama is promising the let the wingnuts completely off the hook for their lawbreaking the last 7 years then I won’t vote for him even if he gets the nomination.
There is a difference between partisan payback and justice. I want justice.
myiq2xu
Oh really? I guess I’ve been arguing with . . . ?
Punchy
Eddie Murphy did a great bit back in the day (Raw? Delirious?) about what the first black president would be like…
Jake
He is, she’s his second wife. Maybe he’s afraid someone will bring up his divorce/her addiction/Keating.
Maybe she wants him to keep her the hell out of it.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
I keep having to remind people: it’s over. They got away with it. The de-facto statute of limitations ran out.
I’m with you on that. I want more than 50% of the administration to be waterboarded and then left in a dark cell at 20 degrees while they miss their family and remember what it was like to act like a rational adult.
I would sign up to be the torturer. I would. I’m not fucking kidding.
But I’m sure you’re smart enough to know that impeachment was the only way to pull that off. And we couldn’t do it because 30% of the country is morally devoid of American values, and the democrats are spineless. In that order.
The only people that can handle this is The Hague. And whoever is president, excepting Giuliani, Hunter, maybe Huck, will not prevent them from taking an internationally-alleged war criminal. It’s out of your hands now.
That kind of sucks, but you can still decide who gets to stand up and order federal marshals to arrest Bush, and Cheney… and Addington… and Yoo~ooooo. (Hold on, I need a cigarette)
What tone do you want as you send people off? I wouldn’t want Hillary’s shrill Mother tone leading the perp walk.
And I seriously do think that Obama’s plain-spoken “Well, simply, you knew this was coming, Jackasses” is a good tone to take with a country that can’t even tell right from wrong. I’d also
guesshope that Obama would be slick enough to not milk this, and instead co-opt the years-long Bush-in-jail story with a Left-Centrist initiative. It would say “we’re done with you; we’re moving on”.Caidence (fmr. Chris)
People hopeful that Obama has candy in that big windowless van of his?
Seriously, you’re targeting people with faith/hope? Not the people that “know” he’s got candy in the van? Isn’t there enough middle ground for people to get a little happy that some half-black kid is throwing his career off the cliff just to give us some brilliant fireworks?
myiq2xu
It ain’t over ’til it’s over.
Why do you want to let them off the hook? Is that you, Mr. Broder?
Tsulagi
Maybe because it’s been there and done that. In the 00 primary season, some from the “honor and integrity” side put out McCain’s wife was a drug addict. Apparently too whacked out to notice her husband was creating little black babies when he wasn’t too crazy from his POW days.
Dreggas
well none of the people involved have nappy hair, Hillary is nappy in general but that doesn’t count.
myiq2xu
Are you implying that Obama isn’t “black” enough?
Oh! How dare you play the race card!
Tsulagi
She didn’t go this far, but it was along the lines of vote for Obama to prove you’re not racist. Racist against black people anyway. Others are okay?
Maybe Rudy’s people can pick up the theme. Vote Rudy to prove you’re not a cross-dresser-phobe!
Horselover Fat
Cindy McCain is from a prominent wealthy Arizona family, and the reason McCain moved to Arizona.
ThymeZone
Yes, he married Cindy Hensley, one of the richest women in Arizona, who now runs her father’s Budweiser distributorship empire here.
So there you have it. Elect him president, because, you know, Hanoi and everything.
ThymeZone
Oh, and in case you thought the “I was tied up at the time” line last year in reference to Hillary Clinton’s Woodstock thing was original … you now know that he used basically the same line 25 years ago in another campaign.
Hey, “911” works for Rudy, and “Hanoi” works for McCain.
Maybe “Glass Ceiling” works for Hillary, and “Unity” works for Obama.
Pick your flavor, and go.
ThymeZone
Well, she was.
Not that I think this disaulifies her, or him from anything, but unfortunately, like everything else in his career, it’s all weaseled up.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Exactly. It’s fucking over, and the fish got away. You look like an idiot splashing around in the river looking for that fish which is already a mile downstream. It can happen; it did happen. Get your shit together and get ready for the next big fish.
I’m going to assume that was facetious, seeing as my own moral outrage regarding torture is as high as it can possibly be in a single human being.
Doesn’t change reality. Moral outrage never does.
myiq2xu
Why, so you can let that one off the hook too?
BTW – I want all the little fishies too. I believe in the rule of law, and they broke it.
crw
My take: Obama needs to put a muzzle on JJ, jr. stat. No one in politics ever gets anywhere by whining about unfair treatment. And that includes playing the race card. He’s better off letting the media grill the Clintons, because they do such a horrible job explaining themselves.
This is the time for Obama to counterpunch. I won’t pretend to know the best way to do this, but playing on the “old and busted” vs “new hotness” meme seemed to work for him well in Iowa. He also desperately needs to show there’s steak behind the sizzle – he needs to deliver solid policy and solid implementation strategy. Frankly, if he can’t do better than a race card defensive crouch in the face of some rather mild Rovianism, he deserves to lose.
crw
I should add, whining about your opponent treating you unfairly in politics doesn’t work. Whining about the media, on the other hand, can often be very effective as you get the media bending over backward to prove how “balanced” they are.
myiq2xu
Yeah, moral outrage had no effect on ending slavery, Jim Crow, or the Vietnam War.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
You’re having trouble with this concept of “no human being in omnipotent”, aren’t you?
I’m not “letting” anything happen. It’s not my call. If I saw a big red button next to me, or somewhere in middle of the desert, that was labelled “Bush gets fucking ganked”, then I’d notify others and go for it.
It’s not here or there. Where do you see it? Did Clinton show it to you? Edwards? Did you see the red of the button in the fire of all his outrage?
Do what you can with the time and the energy you have. I say: We lost the chance to punish the fucker ourselves, next chance: installing an authority figure who will smack the retarded 30% upside the head and tell them what to do. We were going to need it anyways; don’t fuck that one up too.
Like I said, I’m with you on the small fishes. I would love to have small fishes for dinner. But moral outrage just means you’re standing there holding your breath.
Doubting Thomas
I’m glad I’ve been an Edwards supporter since day one. I can only hope Obama and Clinton continue their public fight until everyone gets so sick of it they finally decide to give Edwards another look. Everyone on the progressive side, from the Great Orange Satan to Balloon Juice is convinced Edwards has no chance, yet many acknowledge he has been setting the agenda.
I know it’s unlikely he will win and I will support whoever the Dems nominate, but I must say if it ain’t Edwards, I’d prefer Hillary to Obama. I think she was awesome with Russert yesterday. She made a point to call him out on his quoting out of context. If we have to a have a corporate approved candidate then give me Hillary. I know as an Edwards supporter I’m supposed to support Obama second, but I don’t. So there’s another bit of anecdotal evidence that the pollsters and pundits are full of shit.
myiq2xu
Maybe to you, but not to me.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Now you’re learning. The commitment to getting the job done isn’t enough. You have to commit to focusing your energy, time management, personnel-management, communications. And you have to prevent having your moral outrage from doing something rash like lynching white people, or throwing grednades in tents.
Do I need to remind you that King was staunchly non-violent, and instructed his followers not to avenge his death (which he foresaw). Man had it right. Moral outrage does nothing without focus, effort, and opportunity.
Oh, and before you say “I’m ignoring the opportunity”, you have post-ex-facto against you in prosecuting Bush States-side. All that’s left is an impossibly-late impeachment. Only international courts get to play this one.
Or, were you planning on ignoring law and just going to lynch him?
myiq2xu
Why do you think so? Bush, yeah, he won’t get punished, but his wrongdoing can be exposed. As can Cheney’s and the rest of the loyal Bushies. Why assist in the cover-up, even tacitly?
If you were really outraged, you wouldn’t be so prepared to let them all escape so easily.
The Other Steve
The wonderful thing about this argument is it totally validates the right-wing talking point that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are racists.
ThymeZone
Sorry. You know I had to.
myiq2xu
Do you even know what the term means?
From Wiki:
What does that have to do with Bush?
myiq2xu
I don’t want to ignore the law, we’ve had seven years of that.
I want the law to be enforced, in accordance with the highest principles of justice.
ThymeZone
Well, can we just agree that SCOTUS messed up, and get a retrospective Mulligan on the last 7 years?
ThymeZone
Chill out, dude. OJ is back in custody.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
See, that’s where you’re off. It’s out there. We (smart people) know. Everyone (that’s worth oxygen) knows. I don’t know a single person that doesn’t think they waterboard, and doesn’t correctly assign waterboarding to the class “Torture”.
… except for the 30% (and the lazy that never vote anyway). And the 30% is FAR MORE powerful than these fucking hacks leaving office. They’ll have a lot more children, they’ll teach them that Muslim is the new Jew and torture is what proves you’re moral, and that Father Government never did any wrong, so will never do any wrong.
We’ve gotten all the intelligent people on board. We’re here, right next to you. We’re worried, pissed, and disorganized (thank you Rove).
We’ve got a critical period until November, and probably another 4 years after that.
Now what do you want to do? Difficulty: this is no longer in your head. No dreaming.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
That’s good. Exactly what I’m looking for.
The law says Bush cannot be indicted, because it’s always been fuzzy on that and his counsel is fucking smart (and evil). The Geneva Conventions regard prosecution to be in the hands of the global community. The federal laws backing up Geneva, are federal.
And the law of the century does to…
/drumroll
State-secrets evidentiary rule! Any US court has to ignore evidence declared “State secrets”. Know what the rule is for declaring something state secrets? You’re the preznit and say “state secrets”, and your problems magically go away!
You see that big iron door I just pointed to? The one that went “CLANG!” went Pelosi chickened out? Bush is on the other side of it. Shit.
myiq2xu
Obama’s reaction to HRC on MTP:
My snarky comment from above:
Amirite?
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Don’t be putting out ad hominems, especially against potential friends, when you’re not on firm ground.
Also from Wiki:
myiq2xu
The law says a “sitting President” cannot be indicted, only impeached, but once he or she is out of office, they are no longer immune, hence Nixon’s pardon.
Bush could not invoke this once he is out of office, only the current President would be able to do that. Obama/HRC/Edwards could declassify anything necessary to prosecute.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Damn, I lost the bet. No explicit statement of Race Card’s existence, and instead of saying he wants to move beyond it, says the voters want to move beyond it.
If my bookie calls, I’m not in the office.
myiq2xu
I asked if you knew what it meant. Ad hominem would be calling you stupid, which I have not done.
Okay, but how does this affect prosecuting Bush (or his henchmen) for violations of existing law?
BTW – You’re talking to a lawyer.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Ooh, you may have me there. I always thought that it was perpetual, like CIA briefings, but that doesn’t make sense, now does it?
That smell in the water… Is dat blood? Republican war criminal blood?
ooh, I feel a bit peckish now. Need a lawyer to tell me how this mechanism works.
ThymeZone
I think it’s a very shrewd statement. I think he has the Clintons all fucked up right now. They are scrambling to find a message, and he looks …. presidential.
Good for him.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
“Do you even”? Really? Can’t you assume that if I’m on here, I’m trying my best to argue in good faith?
As far as I’ve seen, these violations haven’t been found, else the press would be able to have a field day with this, and they haven’t yet.
If there is a violation, would you show it to me, and give me a hint as to it’s failure to grasp the public’s imagination?
Please note that, despite statements we don’t torture, they don’t stand up to simple logic. It’s plain as day. Why no talk of federal indictment on Jan 21 ’09?
srv
Seems Obama’s favorite show is The Wire and he wuv’s Omar.
ppGaz’s world just turned asunder.
ThymeZone
Run away from here. These ambulance chasers just want their hooks in you.
ThymeZone
I’m a persona.
I don’t have a world.
Katherine
The most ridiculous & offensive thing about all this–Obama’s campaign is being held personally responsible for everything any black person in America or member of the press says about this. Of course African Americans are touchy about an incumbent going around patronizing & lying about the most viable black candidate ever! James Clyburn doesn’t work for the campaign! The original news reporters who truncated the “fairy tale” & LBJ/MJK remark out of context don’t work for the campaign!
Congratulations on getting played, John.
Jim
I also think this is somewhat a function of the media taking something and blowing it up. You don’t think Drudge, who provides the grist for the MSM’s mill isn’t smiling as he puts up blaring headlines about THE RACE ISSUE? Obama would be best off just letting this thing go for now, and most importantly trying to keep the Jackson’s and Sharpton’s silent right now. To the extent the Clintons are playing the race card, my guess is that their goal is to goad Jackson, Sharpton et al., into action, which does nauseate a not insignificant number of people.
Katherine
but:
Dear Jesse Jackson Jr.:
shut up. shut up. SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP!
Bupalos
The whole world’s going nuts. When a sane commentator like John Cole is acting like the question is whether or not the Clintons are personally racists, the party is over.
It helps to be a little dumber than you are in this case, John. Back up and look at the big picture. Every time race comes up, the Clintons win. Every time gender comes up, the Clintons win. It’s an outgrowth of running as a 55% “minority” versus a 9% minority. And gee gosh, somehow race just keeps innocently coming up from their camp.
The Clintons aren’t racists, and that’s not the point. But the Clintons have done the math and they know they aren’t going to get the black vote this time. They need something else, and that something else is to make this black v. white in the most innocent ways they can.
Has anyone stopped to ask themselves what bamboozling scum like Johnson is doing over in the Clinton camp in the first place?
LiberalTarian
Um, re fighting fire with fire. In Montana when we said fight fire with fire we meant it literally. To help stop a forest fire, you can set a fire-break. A fire break is an area where you set a limited fire to burn up all the available fuel, so that when the out-of-control fire gets there it has nowhere to go. It can’t go backward, since the fuel in that direction is already consumed.
The pissing in the volcano reference is not in the Montana girl lexicon.
The Forest Service likes to set what they call “controlled burns,” to keep the fire ladder in the understory to a minimum (so that if there is a lighning strike you have the much-easier-to-control ground fire). But they have a habit of burning up whole mountain sides cuz they’re stupid and can’t control it once it starts (and get a crown fire instead). Just like the gubmint to make a mess of things.
This whole race flap between Clinton and Obama has the distinct feel of a controlled burn that has gotten out of hand.
Jake
This is My [Minority] Friend, AKA Minority Hive Mind on steroids. If MMF hates green beans not only must I assume that all members of that group hate green beans, but I am allowed to feel shock, confusion and disbelief if I meet another member of that group who loves green beans.
Here we have a similar equation. Talking Head says the Clintons are racist + Obama shares some characteristic with the Talking Head = OMG OMBAMA IS PLAYING TEH RACE CARD!
ThymeZone
The Metaphor Police have announced that they are shutting this blog down permanently.
Kynn
How do you get that out of what I wrote?
I mean, there’s an assumption that good Democrats or good Americans or whatever aren’t racist, but is it justifiable? I’m sure most white people think it’s true, but what about black people?
Kynn
Because, you know, there’s nothing more important for a black leader to do than try to shut up other blacks from expressing opinions — especially if those other blacks might say things which are true but which white people don’t like to hear.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Fixed that for you. No need to thank me.
/They may be right, but that doesn’t fix the issue.
Jim
It’s the things Sharpton says that are not true that I don’t like to hear. With Sharpton’s history, and to a much lesser extent Jackson’s, I don’t think you want to get into a contest about truth-telling. Given this country’s history, it doesn’t take much for me to accept charges of racism, but when Sharpton speaks, he carries a much greater burden in my mind of proving his charges. In any event, if Obama wants to win, do you really think he is better off having Sharpton by his side? I think not.
Jake
The sucky part for any candidate with an attention whore like Al stuck (however indirectly) to his campaign is AWs are difficult to get rid of without triggering 50,000 db shrieks of outrage.
Anne Laurie
If Obama ends up as the Democratic nominee, I am gritting my teeth and voting for Obama, even though his voice makes my filling vibrate and I loathe his Unity-Pony followers almost as much as JC does. Because if Obama is President in 2009, his Democratic supporters are going to pull him, however reluctantly, into investigating and exposing all the Cheney/Bush criminal activity over the previous eight-years-plus. If whichever sadsack the Repubs nominate ends up in the Oval Office, Preznident Sadsack’s supporters are going to push him *hard* to keep covering up / destroying all evidence of the Cheney/Bush criminal cartel’s crimes, even assuming Prez SS would be interested in exposing his fellow Repubs instead of abetting them. (Or in profiting from the loopholes Bush, Delay, Hastert, Abramoff, and all the other Repub thieves have made.)
As a famous Repub fvckup once said, sometimes you have to go with the Democratic nominee you have, not the Democratic nominee you wish you had.