It’s snowing in Atlanta. Well, it was. Now it’s just sleet. My dog has never seen it before and is beside herself. Drivers here really suck. I have my own breadmaker (pre-emptive Psycheout – LOL), a lot of Egg Beaters, and I don’t drink milk, so I am prepared. I don’t envy those of you in the Northeast, but at least you all know how to drive in snow, unlike the wimps in the South.
On another note, there obviously been a shitstorm over Hillary’s comments on MLK and the Civil Rights Act. Personally, I don’t think she had a malevolent intent whatsoever. I think Clinton, and probably all the Democratic candidates support civil rights fully. Having said that, I think the controversy has erupted mostly because black Americans are realizing that the Democrats have taken them for granted. And they have. It’s wonderful to have Obama in the race. I have to admit, if I was an African American, I would probably vote for him because he was black. That’s not to say there aren’t millions of black people who would vote for Obama on policy issues. I’m not saying that at all. I’m saying that many black people now probably feel that they have a real chance of getting a black person into office. They don’t need to settle for just any old Democratic candidate. They have a dog in the hunt now – not a dog like Sharpton or Jackson – someone serious who is not making race an issue.
African Americans are not going to put up with race issues – real or perceived. I think in this case it was perceived. But isn’t it nice to have a real chance at an African American president – one who doesn’t pander to race issues?
I look forward to the day when people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are obsolete. It will take awhile, because these men have livlihoods that depend on racial tensions. I like Obama. I think, even if he doesn’t win, that the success of his candidacy is going to make the Jacksons and Sharptons less relevant than they are today.
Of course, I don’t get to decide, but if I had my way, I would want people like Obama to represent African Americans – because I think he represents us all. The closer we get to a point where a candidate represents everyone, the better off we’ll all be (which is obvious, I know.) I think Obama fits that bill better than anyone, in either party, this go round – even if it’s completely symbolic which, unlike John, I don’t believe it is.
Haltelcere
I know this isn’t the focus of Michael’s post, but not only do Southern drivers have no experience driving in ice and snow, but Southern states don’t invest in good equipment / materials for said ice and snow. So those two strikes are why I choose to call in sick and stay home for the 8 hours each year Dallas gets blanketed with an ice or snow covering.
Jake
OK, that’s as much vapid meaningless poorly argued bullshit as I can tolerate in one go.
Clearly Michael D. is taking a correspondence course in logical argument from Jonah Goldberg.
And he still FAILS.
myiq2xu
Oh Lord! Heal our brother Michael, he is sooooo lame!
va
Oh dear. You might want to re-think the “Obama is ‘the right kind’ of black candidate” sentiment.
And, what if Obama said he cared specifically about black issues? Would you have such an easy time thinking of him as an honorary white guy?
srv
ppGaz always says to never post drunk.
Molly
Bigot Michael…driving in snow is easy. Driving on black ice is a little more risky. Why not get in a car and drive up 400 to Dahlonega tonight. See for yourself how thrilling it can be.
caustics
Even as a die-hard toddler Flyers fan, I can still remember watching a mid 70s Habs offensive rush and thinking; “God, why can’t I be like Yvan Cournoyer?”
The answer to that later became obvious.
Silver Owl
LOL! Drive slow, do not slam on your breaks, do not step on the accelerator on ice. It does take some Michigan drivers two snows to remember that their vehicle, no matter the size, only has four points of contact to the road. Ice does not give two shits about size.
The majority of blacks, actually the majority of any non-white people and the majority of all women, regardless of race, have no reason to trust any candidate. Shit we’re still fighting the same damn battles that we have been for almost a century now. America is a retarded nation. Slow. Not quick on the uptake. Constantly repetitive on the market spin low on the actual delivery rate.
Evilbeard
OMG! You likened black men to dogs. Maybe you didn’t intend to make a racist comparison but perhaps you should consider a job in the Clinton campaign regardless.
Chuck Butcher
Michael,
I understand that the sight of snow in Georgia is disconcerting, but you might want to take another look at that post.
I’m afraid that a right of Democratic center corporatist tool candidate doesn’t represent me, whether black or female. I guess by your reasoning I like Edward ’cause he’s a white guy…
Andrew
Shorter Michael D.: Those uppity negroes need to pipe down.
J. Michael Neal
This is the year when the voting bloc that has long been taken for granted is stepping forward, for both parties. The representative of that bloc on the Democrat side is facing a lot less hostility than Mike Huckabee is.
Seanly
It’s a dangerous myth that people who live in areas with regular snow can actually drive in the snow or ice.
Kynn
The most amazing thing is that Michael D wrote an entire post about what black people think without even having to ask any black people!
What skill!
How fortunate for the black people that they finally have a candidate who appeals to white southern Republicans like Michael D, and we won’t have to worry about the WRONG KIND of blacks anymore! You know, those blacks who make white southern Republicans uncomfortable! By being all blackity-black all the time!
God, what a steaming pile of privileged bullshit. Thanks for once again tipping your racist hand, Michael!
Cain
What do you want him to do? Talk to Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson since they are all that is black? Please.
cain
Emma Anne
Word.
Tom in Texas
Micheal D. lives in Atlanta. I’m gonna go out on a limb and say there’s more black people there than in Tucson, thus he would know through his daily life far better than you “what black people think,” Kynn. Hell, Cynthia McKinney came from his neck of the woods. How many black politicians come out of Arizona?
But you are probably right, a Canadian who moves to Georgia must surely hate black people.
The Grand Panjandrum
I know what you mean Michael. That Senator Obama sure is one of the nice Negroes. The fact that he’s clean and talks pretty don’t hurt either.
It may not have been your intention, but this post really is a very patronizing.
Andrew
Well, my black (adopted) brother lives in Arizona, so I’ll give him a call and see what he thinks of someone telling him that Obama is a White-America-Approved(tm) black man, not like those other loud mouths who kept bringing up race.
Tom in Texas
Is Michael really stating something shocking here? White Americans like Obama. They vote for him precisely because he doesn’t come across as divisive or dismissive. He draws independents and crossover Republicans in a way Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton never can. You can be a dick about that and claim stating so is racist, but it’s reality.
dnA
Some of the criticism aimed here at Mike D is deserved, but all of you enlightened race-men are missing the most important thing the man said.
That’s the part people should be talking about, rather than jumping on the dude for making some ignorant comments. Part of the reason white people can’t be honest about race is they’re afraid of being ignorant. Well when it comes to race, people tend to get ignorant; less out of hatred than out of a lack of experience. I trust Mike more for expressing himself in a ham-handed manner than I would trust someone whose discussion of race consists solely of condemning others for daring to bring up the subject.
Mike has touched the tip of an important issue, which is that white liberals are very comfortable discussing race when it comes to making fun of Republicans, who are notoriously out of touch. White liberals are less comfortable about discussing their own views.
As far as Sharpton and Jackson go, being a publicity whore is not necesarilly inconsistent with fighting for people’s rights. Often they do more of the former than the latter, and they deserve to get shit for that. But don’t think that relationship with the media isn’t symbiotic; those reporters follow them around because they want to, not just because Sharpton and Jackson want them to.
Andrew
No, that many folks like Obama is plainly obvious. He’s damn charismatic.
The absurd claptrap is particularly found in the denigration of someone like Jesse Jackson as pandering to race issues and dependent upon racial tension, and unserious to boot. This is exactly how racists have depicted blacks fighting for civil rights for decades: angry and divisive, and so they should be marginalized and even ridiculed, when in fact they were represent the concerns of many black Americans.
But the truly patronizing statement was this: “I would want people like Obama to represent African Americans.”
Get.
The.
Fuck.
Out.
Who the hell is Michael to tell people who should represent them?
Richard Bottoms
Fortunately what you want is of no consequence to us black folks.
Not because you are white, but because you are a Republican. Fuck Ronald Reagan, the GOP, and the entire conservative theocratic gaggle of assholes who have destroyed the economy, broken our military all while managing to never serve a day in uniform even as they bray about their patriotism.
Tom in Texas
I would want people like Obama to represent African Americans, rather than Jackson or Sharpton.
I would want people like Common to represent Hip Hop, rather than Fiddy or Kanye.
I would want people like Ned Lamont to represent Connecticans, rather than Joe Lieberman.
Whoever wins the Democratic nomination, I would want to represent Americans.
Doesn’t mean I’m telling them who to support (In fact, Michael specifically stated the obvious by pointing out he had no say in the matter). I’m saying who I like.
Pb
I would want people like Tim F. or Tom in Texas to represent Balloon Juice, rather than Michael D.
Tom in Texas
I agree that this is a problem within the Democratic Party. I know way too may people who listen to NPR diligently and vote Democrat, but their neighborhoods and cities are as segregated as any sunset town in Texas. I went to school in Austin, where approximately 99.999% of the black population lived east of the Interstate (because the railroad tracks were barely functioning). Everyone dutifully drives the right car and recycles, but oddly, the white folk keep moving farther west. Hmm…
Tom in Texas
I identify with Michael a lot. I tend to lean libertarian, in that I generally want government programs to do their very specifically defined jobs (under oversight, natch) and go the hell away, rather than my party’s pet program that I must defend and extend if possible. I find this to be a fightable battle on the Democratic side. As for the Goops, not only do they hemorrhage cash, but the programs they spend it on are broken beyond repair and/or working towards the worst goals imaginable. I also identify with Michael in that I have a dog. We differ in that I have a girlfriend. Oh well, vive le difference.
srv
I don’t see the charisma, at least physically. I saw a much younger Jesse and he had an incredible physical and oratory charisma – but his speech was much more general and not about race. I presume that impacts my biases. I’ve also seen the ‘uppity’ Jesse, which is the stuff that gets on TV, and most white-folk see. I don’t have cable, so my observations of Sharpton are of the older, more ‘extreme’ stuff (Rodney King, etc) and not from whatever shows he’s on now. So many folks may only see Jesse and Al when it specifically involves some racial issue. They aren’t seen as commentators on Americana, they’re seen as commentators on Black Americana.
Regardless of why, there is something to the fact that Cosby can headline at the Houston Rodeo/Livestock near the Rodney King/OJ era and get standing ovations, or Tiger can be so beloved. A lot of people are racists, and a lot of other people aren’t outright racists but don’t know how to be comfortable with racial issues (for whatever reason). If Tiger started talking about his race a lot, people would just not know how to relate to that. I just can’t see the country club crowd getting it.
I imagine this is how a lily white gay Canadian guy in Atlanta might think. But it would probably be better not to emote about it.
But I do really wonder if Obama brings any real ‘enlightenment’ to white folks about race. Should I expect it to? If not, when?
srv
East Austin is very gentrified now. I may ultimately be part of that problem when I move back.
Tom in Texas
There are a lot of people that think that way. Living in Houston, I would imagine the culture to be a lot similar to Atlanta. For the most part, the city itself is extremely varied culturally and is purplish, with several Democratic Congressional Reps and a Democratic Mayor. The surrounding area is overwhelmingly economically conservative, with a nice dollop of evangelical fervor thrown on top to spice things up. The business conservatives (who I saw quite a bit of over the holidays) may not turn out in droves for Obama, but I heard more than a few people say they like what he has to say. These people will NOT vote for Clinton, by the way. Even as VP.
Well, the Rodeo does have a Tejano night and a funk/’70’s night as well. I don’t know the Cosby appearance you refer to, but the Rodeo crowd itself is, granted, lily white for 28 shows out of the month. Those other two shows are usually the best though.
Tom in Texas
re East Austin:
I never understood how property three blocks away from the state capitol could be so ignored. The same thing happens in Houston, though. Even the liberals (of whom there are quite a few) will pay four times as much for a home in the “right” neighborhood. They leave it to the black middle class to revitalize the wards. The encouraging aspect is that they are doing just that in many inner city areas here.
Darkness
Well, I suppose “right kind of black” is an improvement over the old meme of “not black enough” if you will all remember that was what the pundits were saying about Obama when the race (no pun intended) first started. Seems like forever ago, now. Sigh. I read “right kind of black” to mean, white culture. Which, given that he previously was “not black enough” probably meant the same thing. I think of Obama as a near-immigrant, rather than a black American. There is a more of a culture gap between black American and African immigrant than there is between white and black America in any given city.
It’s culture that makes someone uncomfortable to others, not race, once a minute of interaction with said person has passed, anyway. That’s why Cosby broke through, using humor to humanize and connect with his audience, even a KKK dragon could sit down and chuckle along and then go back and iron his hood later in the evening. It’s all culture, race just happens to be highly correlated with culture, sometimes intentionally.
Pb
I just know that you guys are all going to be shocked, appalled, and disbelieving that this could ever be the case within our government, but… Pentagon Planted Bogus Iran Speedboat Story.
myiq2xu
I’m sure Rush would agree. He thinks welfare workers want people to be poor so that they can have jobs. He calls it fostering dependency or some such shit.
Yep, Al and Jesse be loving them some racism!
I guess you missed the story about how Obama’s campaign put out an internal memo pushing the racism meme?
Maybe HRC should represent them then, cuz she represents us all too.
Here’s a question for you Mike: Is it not just a racist to vote for somebody on account of their skin as it is to vote against them for the same reason?
You’re not black, but you’re not female either. What kind of woman do you want representing women?
We haven’t had a black President yet, but we haven’t had a woman either, and they are half our population, so shouldn’t we elect a woman first?
Here’s a radical idea! Let’s elect the best candidate without regard to race or gender! Even if the candidate happens to be a white man.
That way, when a black or female candidate wins, (and eventually, they will) it will be because they were the best.
Maybe this is the year, and maybe it isn’t.
bernarda
Warren Beatty explains the situation very well in the film “Bulworth”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0zxx6XxhH4&feature=related
“What are you going to do? C’mon vote Republican? You’re not going to vote Republican. Let’s call a spade a spade.”
Cassidy
Fixed.
Hey, if you want Teyvon from the 29th Street Boys, wearing his bling and do-rag, to represent your district, be my guest. Personally, If I have a black candidate, I’m gonna vote for the one who isn’t thugged out, ghetto fabulous, uneducated, and most likely with a criminal record. Excuse the hell out of me for wanting to vote for someone who is educated and has a mastery of the English language.
Reality check. Why is this patronizing? I would like to look at a well-educated man and think that he represents his whole “group”. If a man like Obama isn’t the face of the black community, then maybe the black community needs to step up and eliminate the negative aspects of their culture that make them look like something else.
You all are completely out of line on this one, except for a few exceptions. Micheal D hit this on the head and on the right nerves. Heaven forbid someone be allowed to say in public that the black community is fucked up right now and they can only blame themselves.
TheFountainHead
What Michael’s post should have read like:
It’s snowing. Fuck that.
Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are yesterday, and they suck.
Barack Obama is teh futar!!11!!
But then, I’m white…I could be WAY off.
sheila
You know with all the talk dissing Sharpton and Jackson, all you aberrant Dems and Uber Libbertarians who don’t listen to NPR nor drive the proper cars are still missing the point. Guys like Sharpton didn’t come to some prominence because they’re just uppity in general. There was a need for them because America has lied to, let down, squashed the dreams of, treated unjustly, some of its citizens. It’s whitey, my friends.
Comparing Obama to Sharpton is sort of like comparing an ice box to a stainless steel Fridgidaire. One comes after the other; both served a need.
TheFountainHead
Fair enough, but why keep the icebox sitting next to or on top of the nice stainless steel fridge with the built in flat panel TV? I mean, that’s just poor taste…
Jake
Please “Democrats neglect African Americans” is the same crap the GOP hauls out every damn election cycle. Now days we call it concern trolling, back before the internons we called it lying. To add to the idiocy, Michael D. can’t be arsed to give a single example of said neglect. And then, so great is his concern, he goes on to spew out a lot of nonsense about whom he would vote for if he were black because he’s a better black person and he doesn’t care about race.
Huh?
Never mind race or gender or religion, what about not being lazy? Maybe employ two brain cells when setting out an argument rather than taking a dump over the key board.
And this is another thing. Fuck the idea that minorities need special ambassadors to the rest of the country. Does anyone remember, after Denis Rader was arrested, how heterosexual Caucasian males ran around saying they needed to eliminate the negative aspects of their culture, they needed to get a nice heterosexual Caucasian male to represent them other wise the S/W/M community would look bad.
[Crickets chirp]
Denis Rader, the BTK killer? White guy, family man, worked as a city inspector? OK, what about Jeffrey Dahmer? Or Tim McVeigh?
Of course you don’t. Because only minorities have “communities” and in this sense “community” means that if one member fucks up everyone is fucked up and so everyone has to go into panic mode and worry what the neighbors will say because the neighbors are so stupid they think “Well, gee that guy fucked up, so the guy living next door to him must be a fuck up too.”
I know this will come as a shock to some, but there is no Minority Hive Mind.
I repeat: There is no Minority Hive Mind.
This means a number of things, including the fact that just because Brown Person A is a jackass it doesn’t mean Brown Person B is a jackass or is aware of Person A or approves of Person A or has any control over Person A or has to do damage control because of Person A.
It also means that Brown Person B doesn’t have to vote for Brown Person O and it sure as fuck doesn’t automatically follow that Brown Person O will always make Brown Person B happy simply because they both happen to be brown.
Cassidy
It’s a math thing. It’s statistical fact that these kind of people are not a majority or even a significant portion of the white community.
Would be a fine argument, but you’ve left out a number of important parts. Brown person A may be a hard working, solid citizen, but brown person(s) B-M are jackasses. There is a cultural problem in the black community, and the older, law abiding generation is losing. When men like Bill Cosby are reviled for telling the truth and Obama is whispered as “not black enough”, yet criminals like Tookie and Vick are hailed as heroes, something is rotten in Compton.
Lee
I’m going to whole heartedly agree with Michael.
Drivers in Atlanta have to be some of the worst I’ve seen.
myiq2xu
I don’t know any of the three, but did it occur to Michael that Al and Jesse are the way they are because of racism, and when racism is gone, rather than go away, they will change?
We’re humans, not machines. We don’t stay exactly the same as we rolled off the assembly line.
myiq2xu
I like pie
Richard Bottoms
Right the fuck on.
TheFountainHead
This is his point. Racism can’t go away until Jackson and Sharpton do, because Jackson and Sharpton see racism around every corner and sniff it out where it isn’t and rally against it no matter what the actual racial climate. Racism is real, there’s no doubt about that. Al Sharpton make their living fighting it. They are out to end racism like Blackwater is out to end the War in Iraq.
myiq2xu
Does that go for the NAACP too?
sheila
The is the most craptastic thing I’ve read in a while. Do you really believe that the reason racism exists today is because of Al Sharpton?
Cassidy
If luck will have it…
Cassidy
That’s not what he said. It has nothing to do with why racism is around. Racism, of some sort, has existed since before we fell out of the trees.
What he is saying is that race pimps, like Sharpton, have no interest in ending racism. It’s been rather lucrative for them.
myiq2xu
Wow!
Firemen want there to be fires, cops want crime, cancer researchers want there to be cancer, soldiers want war, freedom fighters don’t want freedom, the list goes on and on.
If only those stupid minorities weren’t so easily fooled by the likes of Al and Jesse, we could end racism so much quicker.
Then they could all act like “good negros”
Cassidy
I’ll settle for the extinction of the “thug for life” culture.
Andrew
How brave of cassidy to propose such a revolutionary idea.
TheFountainHead
Read one thing, say another. You deliberately expand my point to the level of the absurd. Of course oncologists don’t want there to be cancer…of course cops don’t want there to be crime. They exist because cancer does exist and crime DOES exist. By the same token, racism DOES exist and therefore it must be combatted by all people on all fronts. Jackson and Sharpton represent two particular people who, regardless of their intentions, have made themselves very powerful in the fight against racist ideas, and have no intention of relinquishing that power. A police officer and a doctor, in theory and in practice, have taken oaths to uphold the standards of their practice and are not, in theory, in said practice for power and glory. (Though I’m sure some are, and we would call them “bad apples”.) Sharpton and Jackson in many ways appointed themselves leaders of all things black and took no such oath and are accountable to no one but the people who finance them. There’s a huge difference here. You blew my construction up to a macro level where it was not intended, and while it might make nice rhetoric, it was an utterly vapid point.
myiq2xu
Who finances them? Stupid “darkies?”
I took past where you intended it but it’s not “utterly vapid.”
You appointed yourself the judge of two men’s characters. What gives you the right to do so, and what makes you think you are accurate in your assessments?
Those men have influence in the black community, otherwise no one would be paying any attention to them. Your attitude is that all of their supporters are just gullible fools.
From the tone of your posts, you think we need to a “colorblind” society.
But some black Americans would say “Can we have equality first?”
sheila
by dint of necessity as explained in my first comment.
If not them, then who? If you say that there was no need for Sharpton or Jackson, then you my friend are sadly bordering on vapidity.
TheFountainHead
Would you have had a problem if I were talking about Bush and Cheney? No, not at all, but that doesn’t let you paint me as a racist, so I’m not allowed to have opinions about social/political figures if they also happen to be black.
Intentionally wrong again. I never said that. I said they are powerful and would like to remain so. They are powerful because in many cases, most even, they have been right to represent the unrepresented. That doesn’t give them carte blanche to call “racism” at every perceived injustices. Some injustices have nothing to do with racism. They don’t see that. Those who follow those two are no more gullible than the American electorate that put Bush in office twice. Most who support those two, like you, choose what they want to see in a situation or text.
That’s not necessarily true, and a lot to infer from a few blog posts, but I have to ask, “What’s wrong with a society that would treat me the same way it would treat Barack Obama or Al Sharpton or Caesar Chavez?” Also, first we’d have to all agree on what equality meant. That’s part of the problem right there.
Finally, since you are willfully being ignorant of my point and resorting to extremist tactics, let me try and lay it out another way. Sharpton and Jackson derive their power from the groups and organizations that support them, churches, etc. They were given this power because real racial injustices needed to be fought with national attention and that required someone to lead the charge and they stepped in, whatever their motives. What has come to pass, however, is that they have vastly over-generalized the issues of race and race relations in this country, they have pushed a meme that segregates and, in my opinion, no longer are doing the greatest good for the people they represent. Racism isn’t ever black and white nor is it just black vs. white or white vs. brown or brown vs. yellow and on and on….but those are the lines and distinctions that Sharpton and Jackson would like you to see because that’s how they get the nation riled up and that’s how they get attention. Men like Obama have discovered that you can fight racism without all those talking points. This is why Sharpton and Jackson are threatened by Obama. Stop calling me a racist. It doesn’t make my argument any less valid and it doesn’t reflect well on you.
TheFountainHead
See my above post, please. There was a need. There still is a need for shining light on racial injustices. I just think we could all do better than Sharpton and Jackson in nominating someone to do that.
myiq2xu
Will you concede that the people they represent might see things differently?
WTF?
Maybe they and their supporters see something you don’t.
Oh Goody! The Magical Unity Pony is back!
4tehlulz
cuz he’s clean and articulate amirite?
myiq2xu
How do you fight racism without talking about racism?
F
John,
You are batting 50% with your contributors
– John Cole: DINO; provocative and well thought out arguments
– TimF: Moderate; well thought out arguments
– Tom In Texas: who is he, when does he ever post and why is he still a contributor
– MichaelD: Vapid, Vapid Vapid; my god this guy can not see beyond his ideology to make a sensible argument, you should have left him in the minors to gain a little more experience.
MichaelD is really hurting the impression I have of your site, his posts have mostly been pap, a repeat of weak republican/libertarian talking points with no attempt to buttress his arguments with facts. If I was looking for that type of blog I would read RS or LGF, however I come here because since your disillusionment with the republican party, you’ve joined us in reality land and begun to question ideology as the driving force for your politics. MichaelD has not reached that point.
Please, return him to the minors for additional experience, he can join us as posters and we’ll gladly provide him with the experience he needs (I promise to leave bruises).
F
Cassidy
Shorter F: Micheal D say things I don’t agree with…he bad!
Cassidy
Wrong question. How do you fight racism, when “racism” has been watered down to mean anything that is said negatively about black people or black culture? How do you fight racism, when criminals are defended by race pimps like Sharpton, because of some fairy tale racism? How do you fight racism, when you aren’t allowed to speak your mind? Are we supposed to have an open and honest discussion that only goes one way?
For the record, I don’t own slaves, have never owned slaves, have never treated a minority in this country as anything less than a person. So, I refuse to feel guilty about something I and my ancestors never did. If you really want to end racism, then part of the solution is for the community to stop using it as a crutch and stop strengthening the stereotypes.
Cassidy
Because he’s educated and a positive role model for young black men to look up to.
F
Ahhhh Cassidy,
I’ve got you pegged; you happen to be a white male in his 50’s, living in a small town, grew up on the wrong side of the tracks, living in a crappy apartment/house, collecting disability from a slip and fall accident and feeling slightly resentful of those negros and immigrants. You probably think because of them you haven’t gotten what you deserve in life.
Well I’ve got a surprise for you. You’ve got what you deserve in life, enjoy it baby, it gets no better.
F
Jake
Would be a fine argument, but you’ve left out a number of important parts.
What about N – Z? Part of the problem is hard working decent people rarely make the news while the news relies on criminals, party animals and just plain idiots to exist. But you still haven’t addressed the main issue: Why the rest of the alphabet is expected to do control complete strangers.
Again, these comments are only valid if every single brown person says “I hate Bill C.” “Obama isn’t black enough” and “Hooray for Tookie (whoever that is) and Michael Vick.” But we know that isn’t any more true than assuming the White Community supports George Bush, the Women’s Community supports Britney Spears antics, the Catholic Community approves of pedophilia or the Military Community supports the behavior of that dick who is currently hiding out in Mexico.
Assholes, jerks, creeps and no-good-nicks come in all shapes, sizes, colors and conditions. Good people who happen to share some characteristics with bad people are not required to, nor should they be expected to, take extra steps to clean up after the idiots.
myiq2xu
I like pie
TheFountainHead
miq2xu,
Of course I concede that their supporters might see it differently! Who the fuck cares! I concede that John Bolton may want to suck off Dick Cheney, does that mean I should too? And yes, racism is never black and white. Racially motivated crimes, may be, but racism itself is a convoluted manner with roots set deeper than this nation’s existence. I’ve seen racism first hand and even been the victim of it a time or two. It isn’t just about the color of your skin, it goes deeper than that, and I simply believe that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have lost sight of such nuance and subtlety. You’re suggesting that because I disagree with Sharpton and Jackson, and by extension those who support him, on the way in which they choose to combat racism, that makes me a racist. It doesn’t, it makes me a thinking person who has evaluated more than one perspective on the subject and come to the conclusion that there are better people for the job, and better ways of doing the job. It’s this type of, “Well then you’re a fucking racist.” bullshit that prevents us from having serious dialogue in this country about our differences and the injustices we foist upon each other.
jh
Can you please cite some examples of this? I see this tired meme batted around a lot but never any evidence.
Remember,
Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have done quite well for themselves as semi-professional demagogues for a reason: Egregiously racist shit still happens in this country and left to its own devices, society at-large would like to pretend that it doesn’t. That’s what keeps these guys in business.
People don’t like them because there manner is accusatory rather than conciliatory.
Are they always right? Of course not, but who can name a public figure who is?
I’m just saying….
PS, Cassidy.
STFU.
Thank you.
myiq2xu
Their supporters care.
I wouldn’t vote for Bolton or Cheney, but I’m not going to tell the GOP who they should support or nominate.
It’s up to Republicans to decide who should represent their interests.
I didn’t call you a racist. And if you want to have a serious dialogue about race, quit dismissing some of the voices. You want to pick the voices that represent a group you don’t belong to.
BTW – I used to be a Republican, but now I’m a Democrat. But I was born white and I’ll always be white, because I can’t change my skin color. I can’t experience racism as a black person, and neither can any other white person. It’s patronizing for a white person to tell black people how they should think or feel, or who they should support.
Dulcie
If the media would quit running to Jackson and Sharpton as the spokespeople for the “race”, that would solve much of the problem.
There are literally hundreds of middle class blacks in America – physicians, attorneys, computer programmers, etc. that have opinions. Why is it that the media only asks Jackson and Sharpton what black people think?
How about people start talking to their co-workers, or their neighbors? I can tell you this, I am a better spokesperson for what I believe than either Jackson OR Sharpton will ever be.
jh
YOU think there are better people for the job and you THINK there are better ways to do what is necessary to combat racism?
Now where did I put that ticker tape? Clearly we need to throw you a parade.
:rolleyes:
jh
Now why would the news media actually bother to do their fucking jobs when they already have a canned solution for coverage of “African-American” issues?
They’ve got Sharpton and Jackson on speed-dial, ready to make controversial, soundbite-able statements, which equals higher ratings in the ongoing coverage of the issue.
You want the media to ruin the good thing they’ve got going with the Reverends to do what?
Have them interview some boring African-American orthodontist with no name recognition?
Never. Happen. Ever.
TheFountainHead
Where did I suggest that I should be a leader? Where did I suggest that my views are somehow more important than anyone else’s? Please.
TheFountainHead
I don’t dismiss them. I dislike them. I dislike the way in which they attempt to change race relations in this country. That’s not dismissal. Also, I wasn’t suggesting I know what it’s like to be black or that I’ve been the victim of that kind of racism. That doesn’t mean I don’t know what racism feels like. I’m not telling black people who should represent them. I’m telling you all on this blog why I don’t like the rhetoric that comes from Sharpton and Jackson. Again, huge difference.
jh
Fixed.
F
Every cause that has a Martin Luther King needs a Malcolm X.
—
I certainly don’t agree with everything Jackson and Sharpton has said and done, in fact among my family and friends I am one of their greatest detractors. However I have to ask, does MichaelD even know of these men and the rights and freedoms for which they fought for in this country.
– What does he know of Rev. Jackson and his civil rights works and actions during the 60s and 70s?
– What does he know of Rev. Sharpton and his civil rights works and actions during the 70s and 80s?
Has they both made mis-steps recently? Yes. Have the times passed them by? I certainly think so. However, to denigrate them with a oh so condescending
does a disservice to them and their past actions.
—
MichaelD,
Where were you in the 60s, 70s and 80s when it came time to fight for civil rights?
F
Bombadil
Worse than Rhode Islanders? Damn.
Cyrus
I agree. Let’s have some evidence of this, please. I ask partly as a genuine question — I can almost say I’ve known as many gay Indians as I have known blacks; if Michael D. is correct I wouldn’t know about it and I’d like to — but I’m asking mostly because I agree with Jake. As far as I can tell, Democrats neglect black people the same way Republicans neglect Huckabee’s constituency: not at all, except for the ways that career politicians are always less ideological and more willing to compromise than their constituents, and often not even that.
Which leading Democrats do not have good ratings overall from the NAACP? Which Democrats have relied on racial demagoguery in campaigns? (After the 1960s, of course.) When have significant numbers of Democratic Congressmen opposed a bill that “the black community” supported, especially a bill proposed by a Republican? Names and dates, please, Michael D. As far as I can tell, the idea that Democrats neglect blacks is just something not-especially-racist Republicans tell themselves so they don’t have to worry about being in the party of the Southern Strategy.
4tehlulz
There is no worse driver in America, I am convinced, then a Marylander, especially if there is a snowflake or a drop of water on the road. Jesus Christ they are the worst.
And I live in Boston and grew up in RI — so I know how well they drive.
Dulcie
And one more thing….
The ghetto fabulous life is not just a “black” thing anymore. 50 Cent and Kanye ain’t getting rich on money from the black community. There are a whole lot of suburban kids out there who are buying the music, the clothes, and the whole lifestyle.
Cassidy
Wrong. Sorry. Late 20’s, physically fit, if not a little beat up years of rigorous physical activity.
This whole thread is a perfect example: Don’t say anything negative about minorities…that’s racist! What a bunch of bigots. How patronizingly simple of you to not want people to improve beyond the stereotypes.
Cassidy
Dressing the life and living the life are two different things.
F
Cassidy,
I,m sorry, thank you for the information, I’ve fixed my statement.
I’ve got you pegged; you happen to be a white male in his
50’s20s, living in a small town, grew up on the wrong side of the tracks, living in a crappy apartment/house, collecting disability from a slip and fall accident and feeling slightly resentful of those negros and immigrants. You probably think because of them you haven’t gotten what you deserve in life.Well I’ve got a surprise for you. You’ve got what you deserve in life, enjoy it baby, it gets no better.
F
myiq2xu
You are trying to invalidate their point of view. That is a dismissal.
“There are better ways . . . ”
BTW – People disliked MLK for the same reason you dislike Sharpton and Jackson.
King intentionally provoked confrontations, led marches and made speeches. For that he was called an “agitator.”
Some people thought there was nothing wrong with the old system of “separate, but equal.”
Cassidy
This is some funny shit. You guys will bend over backwards to justify poor behavior and low standards, as long as it’s one of your “pet” groups.
Tom in Texas
I think Michael has a better understanding than most of us what it’s like to choose a leader that doesn’t mesh with the designated spokesman for your particular minority.
As to Jackson and Sharpton, I wasn’t alive in the 1960’s or (most of the) 1970’s, so I don’t have a first hand recollection of their fights in the era. I do enjoy Sharpton as a speaker — I thought he gave the second best speech at the DNC in 2004, and I think he and Jackson both provide a voice for some in their community (much like Obama does). It’s obvious there isn’t, and never will be, ONE spokesman for every subset, which kind of nullifies the whole “rather/than” post I had going. People are members of multiple minority groups, for one — a black evangelist might place his or her faith above their race when choosing a spokesperson. I suspect they are a lot like the rest of us. I know there’s no one person I agree with all of the time and that I let speak for me at every turn.
And I don’t think racism is dead in this country. We do need people to point out and decry blatantly racist acts. I agree with your statement that every movement needs both a King and a Malcolm X. I just think King bridged a divide Malcolm never could, and wasn’t really trying to bridge, to be blunt.
The biggest narrative we should take from this is (yet another) Southern Republican seems to like Obama. What does that say about his electability?
And I rarely post because:
1) November/December is the busiest time of the year for us, by a long shot.
2) I only post when I have something to say
3) Tim, John, and Michael say most of what I would, anyway.
The frequency of my posts has no bearing on the validity of my argument.
Cassidy
You’re “pegging” is still off a bit, but I won’t let any kind of facts get into your white man’s guilt induced hysteria. OTOH, though, I do have a great life…great family, great job, wonderful wife…I guess I am getting what I deserve and worked for.
jh
More condescending nonsense from Cassidy.
Judging black people becuase of 50 Cent is like judging white people becuase of Guns and Roses. Absurd and farcial.
Andrew
White people will never release Chinese Democracy!
Dulcie
Sorry Cassidy, I’m not a “pet”. I’m a person. 50 Cent doesn’t speak for me and mine any more than Sharpton or Jackson do.
I don’t need a spokesperson, and neither do most other black people.
Cassidy
Tell that to the liberals and the race pimps.
Cassidy
The funny thing about this, is to me you’re a person. I could care less what color or gender or persuasion you are. It’s none of my business or concern. I don’t care. If I was a prospective employer, I wouldn’t care. If I was trying to get a job or moving next to you…I don’t care. The only people that really care what a person’s race is, and make a big deal of it, is the liberal left and those who are profiting off of bigotry, Sharpton, etc.
Jake
This is based on … what? Of course I don’t know the designated spokesman for Libertarian Canadians Living in the US. I don’t know the “designated” spokesman for the various groups I inhabit. I’m not even certain how someone gets to be “designated spokesperson for a particular minority.” If there’s voting involved, I haven’t even been asked to register. Maybe it’s decided at a board meeting or a smoke filled room.
Diddly + Squat unless you’re going to vote for him.
Cassidy
You really think it’s nonsense? In this day and age, you’re still willing to believe that the black community has no culpability in the negative stereotypes that are they are portrayed? They have no culpability in the number of single parent families, dead-beat dads, and crime ridden communities? Reality check: There isn’t a bunch of white kids driving into downtown to perform all these criminal acts.
At this point in time, the black community’s biggest problem is that they won’t police themselves. They won’t tell all the negative influences to get the fuck out. It’s easier to cry racism and let Al Sharpton come running. The whole Jena thing is a perfect example. Instead of taking a stand letting criminals get tried as criminals, it was turned into a race issue. It’s bullshit. When you cry “racism” and defend criminals from having to take responsibility for their actions, then your are only creating your own negative image.
myiq2xu
When did all the Klan members die?
HyperIon
oh, so that’s what he was saying.
and still do in some parts of the country.
many of my stupider relatives always refer to MLK as “that rabble-rousing nigger”. IMO many white people delude themselves about the “progress” that has been made on race issues wrt personally held ideas that whites have about non-whites. but talking about it frankly is just too scary.
Jake
Greetings kiddies. Can you spot the man with two minds?
I’ve said before, I’ll be really sad if Cassidy ever turns out to be a spoof. He’s just too perfect.
F
What makes you think Michael has a better understanding about choosing a leader that doesn’t mesh with his lifestyle.? To me that makes him, Sullivan and others of that ilk sell outs; ideologues who are willing to accept being treated as 2nd class citizens in order to have “smaller government, lower taxes, etc.”. As an African American, I can tell all that crap doesn’t matter a damm bit, if you aren’t treated as a full participant (first class citizen) of your society, it just doesn’t matter what the size of your government is or how much taxes you pay.
I was born in the 60s and grew up during the 70s and the 80s were a blur of College and the Military, I didn’t become politically active or gain a great deal of knowledge about the civil rights movement until the 90s (pretty disappointing for an African American, huh). I remember making a couple of shallow and stupid statements about Jackson after one of his “incidents” during the 90s and an older friend took me aside and reamed me good and told me to learn my history before opening my mouth. I took that to heart and I researched (teh library) Jackson and was pleasantly surprised by some of the things he had done during the 60′ and 70s (did the same for Sharpton). So while they are not what I would consider spokesmen for me and my friends and their time may have passed, they don’t deserve condescending crap like this said about them.
I’m glad to see that you agree with me that we need both a Malcolm X and a Martin Luther King.
I don’t give a damm about electability (John Kerry) and as far as southern republicans go; the party that was built on “The Southern Strategy” can kiss my ASS. As an aside have you ever been to Stone Mountain, that huge and I do mean huge monument outside of Atlanta that was built to honor the leaders of a traitorous war that was fought to keep people like me and my family in slavery and I’m suppose to worry about if they think my candidate is electable. They like Obama because they think they can “work” with him, not because they like his policies. Obama had better be careful, we saw how the republicans “worked” with Clinton in the 90s and the democrats in the 00s when they were in the majority and we see how they are “working” with the democrats now that they are in the minority. What makes Obama think he will fare any better than Clinton? Because another “Southern Republican” said so, Nahh, when it comes to the current republican party that pony sailed a long time ago
I did not question the validity of your posts. My post earlier was on the poor quality of some of John’s contributors; whether it was due to the infrequency of the contributors posting (whatever the reason) or the sheer vapidity of the contributors posting.
F
myiq2xu
You missed the best one:
B-M is 13/26 or 1/2 of the black community. IOW – half of all black people are “jackasses.”
Irony, thy name is Hopalong
Bombadil
I used to live in Maryland, and got my first license there. And yeah, when there’s snow on the ground, driving there is absolutely treacherous. But I stand by my estimation of Rhode Islanders’ abilities. Maybe it’s only when someone from RI tries to drive in MA, but I’ve learned to spot a RI license plate from a half mile off and give them a wide berth. Especially on Route 95, where they have a lovely habit of going 85 in the left lane and cutting across all four lanes of traffic at the last minute to make their exit.
Jake
I did see that jackalope but at the time I was trying to get a coherent reply to the main issue.
Bwahaha!
Buck
I would have thought that it carried some importance.
Tom in Texas
F:
While I haven’t been to Stone Mountain, I can certainly understand living in a world whose past revolves around opressive racist economic systems. Texas being Texas, we tend to celebrate our own independence more than our Confederate past while conveniently omitting the nasty parts, but there are more than a few very vocal and loud White Supremacists among us. I guess my point is that not every Republican is a racist — many are just willfully ignorant, gullible and suckered into it by using the same argument Michael espoused — namely that the Dems pander to blacks, so it’s ok that my party has no more recent nationally elected African American than JC Watts the OU quarterback.
As for Obama working with the Republicans when he’s elected, he seems to simply be redefining the middle on his own terms, rather than allowing the talk radio brigade to claim the DMZ as their own. I do wonder whether he’ll be able to withstand the inevitable “he’s a closet Commie” chatter and hold his turf, but he does seem to be a fighter. I’ve really grown to respect his political acumen when he’s in campaign mode — he knows how to smile wide while he or someone else slips the dagger in his opponent’s back. Frankly, his voting record makes me think his policies are closer aligned to mine than any other candidate in the race anyway, but I also think he’s the most electable Dem, something I did NOT think about Kerry.
jh
Cassidy,
How can someone who makes this statment
Turn around and write the mindless claptrap you’ve been spouting in this thread?
Could it be becuase you are full of it?
The truth of the matter is that you don’t have a clue what you are talking about and (as usual) are wholly inconsistent in your arguments.
Racists and ONLY racists, look at what some people do and conflate it to being representative of an entire group.
It’s just that simple.
It has nothing to do with 50cent, Al Sharpton or anyone else you choose to hold up as represenatives of what’s “wrong” the black community.
F
Buck,
Please use the whole quote
My comment referenced John Kerry and the way his electability was touted as the defining factor in getting him the democratic nomination in 2004. Electability is important, just not the end all be all of selecting a canidate.
—
Tom in Texas,
You make my point for me.
MichaelD’s post was vapid and a re-mouthing of weak republican/libertarian talking points with no back-up arguments to prove his point. He then disappears and refuse to engage any of the valid arguments presented (leaves that to Cassidy. Woo, Hoo, great choice there).
I’ve come to expect better of Balloon Juice, even when I disagree with the poster.
F
Jake
And we already know the answer to that one.
myiq2xu
Kinda like a twisted version of Clark Kent and Superman. One acts wimpy, and then disappears. Then we get the he-man that acts like nothing but kryptonite can stop him. They’re both from Georgia too. Han anyone ever seen them together?
myiq2xu
Oops.
“Has”
myiq2xu
Now I can’t claim to understand how anyone else thinks or believes, especially someone of another race or gender.
But I do know that the white racists I’ve seen are some of the last people I would choose to represent the superiority of the white race.
Cassidy
Because it isn’t mindless crap. It’s reality. There is a reason that southerners are called rednecks, hicks, white trash, etc. There is a significant segment of the southern population who live those exact same stereotypes. Same with blacks, and Mexicans, etc.
Now, personally, I don’t hold to treating people, I meet, like a stereotype. OTOH, any one of us here can walk into the mall, look at the various youth, and guess what music they listen to, what they say about their parents, what their background is, and all other manner of “stereotyping” and be largely right.
Groups create their own image. I will readily agree that at one point in time, racism was an institutional bigotry that required the efforts of men like King to call it out and change it. I admire him greatly for it. But in this day in age, we are past the point of institutional racism. Their has always been bigots and will be bigots, but to assert that institutional racism is alive and well is beyond hyperbole. At this juncture in our culture, the black community, including its leaders and heroes, have allowed the negative archetype of the thug have more influence on its youth and culture than men like Powell or Obama.
And if any of you even try to claim you haven’t engaged in any kind of stereotyping, then you are a bald-faced liar. Everyone here has looked at a black man on the street with some kind of caution or fear. Every woman here hasn’t looked at a white male, 18-35 and made a decision on the possibility that he is a rapist. So please, drop all this crap and at least be honest.
Cassidy
Sorry. Not gay and couldn’t be paid to live in Atlanta.
But they make excellent punching bags.
myiq2xu
Dick Gregory (a black comedian and activist) admitted that he felt apprehensive seeing young black men approach.
But feeling afraid in one situation doesn’t justify discrimination in all situations, or justify overgeneralizations. There are some pretty bad people out there with white skin too.
It will be nice when the color of someone’s skin means no more than eye or hair color.
But we’re not there yet.
Darkness
For the record, I barricaded myself against all church leaders after that guy was caught. Control freaks, all of them.
—————–
Fountainhead, I personally see your point, and the fact that no one choses to engage the point in an honest manner indicates we got a ways to go on the issue, but we all knew that. Perhaps discussing the solution is a better approach. For example, Sharpton et al can attract the press because they put on a show when they descend upon a miscarriage of some kind. Fair enough, since that does help attract attention to an issue, but I think it has the bad side effect of causing devisiveness. A sizable segment of the non-black population would like to support them, but are forced to defend their tactics to do so. This is not easy to do among peers that mock them. So, I would submit that Sharpton et al have a tendency to take a short term gain for a long term ill, that being making it harder for the non-black population to add their voice. Are these guys doing this intentionally because it maintains their own power? That’s a strong statement, and I’d hope the answer is no, but heck I don’t know the answer to that, but you can separate the discussion of what’s happening from that accusation, I think.
So, what’s the solution: provide a moderate voice of reason for the press to quote alongside these others. But that’s a trick, right? The press wants a show too.
Cassidy
I absolutely agree, but that wasn’t my point. The point was we have all actively engaged and made decisions based on some sort of stereotype. Regardless of how rational or irrational it is, stereotypes, while definitely not the majority, do have a basis in fact.
sheila
Cassidy,
You’re right. There *are* black people who enjoy eating watermelon.
Michael D.
Michael D.’s Law (with apologies to Godwin):
“As an online discussion about race grows longer, and if the post is written by a white guy, the probability of the author being called a racist approaches one.”
F
F’s Law:
“If a white person makes a racist comment and then is called upon it, the probability of the white person complaining about being called a racist approaches one.”
Cyrus
Ah! Welcome back, Michael D. Do you have any evidence to back up your assertion that the Democratic Party has taken black Americans for granted in any meaningful way?
Scruffy McSnufflepuss
So, we’re all racists. But that’s okay, because racism is mostly valid. Thanks for the heads-up, there.
BTW, this is absolutely hilarious:
How do you know? Do you poll them? If I imagine that I know someone just by looking at them, and don’t go find out, I’m right 100% of the time. Bigotry is a real time-saver, isn’t it?