At Sadly, No!, Clif has the sorry job of responding to Jonah Goldberg’s latest load of crap.
Okay, so Jonah, a contributing editor of National Review, fer chrissakes, is throwing an accusation of racism against progressives and the left. That doesn’t just take the cake, it takes the fucking cake platter, the table under the cake platter, the whole fucking dining room, the house too, and the block on which the house is located, and the city, state, nation, planet, galaxy and universe. At it’s inception, the whole point of the National Review, the magazine that pays for Jonah’s triple bacon cheeseburgers, was the virulent racism of William F. Buckley and his cohorts, all of whom spilled truckloads of ink over the virtues of segregation.
If you don’t believe me, let’s take on instructive trip down memory lane and read stuff that was printed in the National Review in its halcyon days. Here’s what NR had to say about the Birmingham church bombings after they occurred:
The white triumphalism on display in the Review‘s archives is nauseating to read today, and I’ll leave it up to readers to click through rather than post it here. These are the guys who carried the banner for American conservatism. When racist Democrats quit the party over civil rights and became the Republican South the Review welcomed them with open arms.
Or read Dave Niewert. For a guy who cannot or will not take his own argument seriously Jonah sheds astonishing amounts of ink and tears lamenting why nobody else will.
ThymeZone
I saw Goldberg on Stewart’s show. Unless I missed something, he actually said that organic foods are a fascist thing.
Honestly, if I didn’t know better, I’d have thought he was a comedian trying to steal Colbert’s schtick.
What an amazing buffoon.
rolly
This is Mark Steyn’s latest over at NRO:
“a lot of readers have asked why the Long-Steyn-Goldberg show isn’t playing South Carolina, Florida et al. Alas, to put it in K-Lo Eighties pop terms, the Wham! tour is on hold because Jonah is pursuing his George Michael solo career”
That’s our Jonah, jerking off in public.
bob
Words cannot convey how much I despise Jonah Goldberg.
myiq2xu
From what I can tell, Pantload takes a bunch of selected definitions and a bunch of similarities between Fascists and Liberals (like eating organic foods) and puts them together.
No real thesis either, despite the book’s title.
He takes only definitions and evidence that serve his purpose, no matter how out of the mainstream or disputed they might be, and ignores anything he doesn’t like, no matter how widely accepted. He takes things way out of context and makes faulty comparisons too.
It’s like a student who pushes a bunch of quasi-related stuff together and calls it a term paper, with no coherence or unifying thesis.
BTW – I’m a liberal and I only eat organic foods by accident.
Paul L.
Any luck getting the empty suit to release the full 18 minutes of the Daily show interview?
What does Stewart got to hide?
ThymeZone
I’m a liberal, and I found out that organic foods cost a lot more than nonorganic ones, and often taste like shit.
Despite the temptation, I don’t buy them much.
myiq2xu
From the Urban Dictionary:
Grand Moff Texan
The white triumphalism on display in the Review’s archives is nauseating to read today, and I’ll leave it up to readers to click through rather than post it here. These are the guys who carried the banner for American conservatism.
You, sir, are making a false distinction between racism and American conservatism.
There is no modern American conservative movement without racism. That is its blood.
.
Grand Moff Texan
BTW: your first link is wrong. It goes to the same chicagoreader piece.
The link you want is here.
.
Keith
My favorite was the part where Goldberg tried to claim that *he*, in fact, is a liberal – a “classic liberal”, whereas the “evil liberals” are actually progressives. As a commenter said several days ago, the guy just makes up his own definitions of words to fit a bunch of Coulter-esque statements intended to evoke anger in liberals so he can claim that they are a) unhinged, b) literally judging a book by its cover, and c) too angry to read his book
TheFountainHead
I’m sorry, maybe I missed something, but was that blogger suggesting that Goldberg’s interview was utterly lucid and that Stewart and Co. edited it to make Jonah look like a buffoon? Cause I find that hard to believe…
myiq2xu
This is the money quote from Doughy:
Yeah, founding the Fascist Party had nothing to do with it.
Believe it or not, wingnuts think the book is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
BTW – Pantload is claiming that Jon Stewart edited the interview to make him look stupid.
Tim F.
oops. Thanks.
John S.
He was the key witness in the Duke lacrosse case.
t4toby
Yes, yes he did. I think he called exercise fascist, as well.
In fact I have run across another meme from the wingers: Anyone who says that partially hydrogenated oils are unhealthy are fascists.
I think we are dealing with a whole movement of people who actually never left the early stages of adolescence. I really can’t think of any other explanation.
Zifnab
Everyone who’s surprised, raise your hand. Everyone? No? No nothing? Come on guys, there’s a sucker born every mi… oh! Is that Paul L in the back? Good stuff.
How soon do you think till Doughy gets his own segment on FOX?
Jen
I want the job of editing the PL to make him look stupid. I could spend all freakin’ day looking at LOLcats, craigslist, and Balloon Juice.
And John S., good one!
Bubblegum Tate
Proof that the Democrats have always been the party of racism and slavery! The GOP is the party of civil rights! Never mind that when the Democrats booted the Southern racists out of the party, the GOP was ecstatic to welcome them home! Never mind the Southern Strategy! Democrats are the real racists just like liberals are the real fascists!
[/wingnut]
I’ve seen Pantload claiming victory due to editing. Riiiiiiight. Stewart, meanwhile, has said that the unedited interview will be released when the strike is resolved. Supposedly, it gets pretty heated
Ellison, Ellensburg, Ellers, and Lambchop
1) 40 years ago, The New Republic was against segregation.
2) ????
3) Ergo, liberals can’t be racist!
Sadly, yes, this is what usually passes for logic at Sadly, No.
RSA
Goldberg actually doesn’t seem to know much about being interviewed as part of a book tour. How many times did he tell Stewart, “You have to read the book,” or “You haven’t read the book”? The whole point of being interviewed is to persuade people to buy and read the book, and just saying “Read it” to a liberal audience makes one look like a complete dumbass.
ThymeZone
Liberals can be racist, but they aren’t stupid enough to try to stand in a school doorway, or try to block the Civil Rights Act on the basis of “states’ rights.”
Get it? Those are “conservative values.”
Dennis - SGMM
I can hardly wait to see the Stewart/Goldberg tape without the mercy edits. Goldberg will then complain that Stewart released the un-edited tape to make him look stupid.
Tim F.
I wonder what happened to that Dixiecrat bloc that bolted the Dems to protest civil rights? Oh yeah, they became the core of the Republican party. The only reliably Republican territory in America is Strom country. Hell, even Kansas is trending blue.
Then again maybe I’m wrong. They don’t care about history or heritage down in the old South. Could be that all those Southern ex-dixiecrats just forgot where they came from.
D.N. Nation
Swiiiiiiiing and a miss.
Liberals can be racist. Yes. No one’s really denying this.
The point over at Sadly, No! is that Goldberg’s *own publication* has long carried the banner of racism, far far FAR more than, say, early 20th century trade unions. And that Goldberg’s promotion that liberals = teh racist in lieu of talking about, y’know, the role liberals had in the civil rights movement and, y’know, the KKK and, y’know, the VERY PAGES OF THE MAGAZINE THAT PAYS HIS BILLS is, y’know, droolingly sub-moronic on its face. That’s the point.
Seriously. Don’t defend this clown. It simply cannot be done. If a strawman of a very minor point in Sadly, No!’s epic Pantload takedown is the best you can do, it’s time to hang ’em up. Goldberg ain’t worth your desparate support.
Zifnab
TZ, ignore him. He’s so far off base – convoluting TNR with National Review, then claiming that TNR wasn’t racist (when no one disputes they praised Mussolini), then drawing a blatantly clear generalization that no one has yet made – it makes my head spin.
Throw enough shit into the fan and hope something sticks. If I get enough facts wrong, you can’t correct them all! Classic conservatism.
Haha. That’s if he doesn’t go the extra mile and claim someone taped over his voice.
SpotWeld
Obviously, when asked, Goldberg will note that the concept of racism that encompasses the act of segregation as practiced in the United States in the 1960s it a form of “book definition” that unserious academics cling to. Additionally he’ll further assert that if he chooses to he could easily point out many examples of racism on the side of liberalism that isn’t segregation that only underscores how segregation (even when enacted for racist purposes) really isn’t racism, at least not under the definition that he believes is correct in terms of his book.
Damm, I picked a bad day to stop snorting Cheetos.
D.N. Nation
And if you’re saying that using old issues of NR isn’t fair, please point out all the various examples of the magazine outlining how it changed its stance, or that the old guard (Buckley, for example) were shunned away.
You can’t. And don’t try to StarParker it and say that the magazine’s promotion of Teh Invisible Hand to the point of systematic corruption is somehow supporting civil rights, because it isn’t.
Jay
That statement doesn’t mesh well with the fact that a larger percentage of Republicans voted for the 1957 and 1964 civil rights act then Democrats.
Napoleon
I am betting on heated. In the past Jon has acted a certain sheepish way when he apologizes for something or is at fault, and that is exactly how he acted when discussing the editing. He could not have sent a clearer signal that he feels he has something to be less then proud about. Plus he has shown in his Crossfire appearance, and some past interviews such as with Chris Matthews, that he does not suffer fools. I have a hard time believing that he doesn’t view JG with the same distain, and that it led to a heated argument or something.
Tim F.
Try to see more than one tree at a time once in a while. Dixiecrats were still Democrats until after they failed to stop civil rights, and they were the only bloc in government for whom racism was a massively important motivating factor. It just isn’t debatable that Lyndon Johnson and the Democrats’ aggresive leadership on civil rights provoked Dixiecrats to switch, or that Republicans welcomed them.
The Other Steve
No offense, but talking about something the National Review published 40 years ago and blaming the modern day audience for it, is a bit like Republicans claiming Robert Byrd was a KKK member and it’s all our fault today.
I don’t think this was a good attack on a piece of excrement from Jonah and the Whale.
D.N. Nation
Very simply…
Robert Byrd: Changed his stance.
National Review: Didn’t.
Napoleon
Actually it does support the proposition.
Tim F.
Keep in mind that it responded in part to Jonah’s favored tactic of cherrypicking ancient quotes from obscure liberal voices and publications to prove his point that libs are teh fascist. Clif’s picks are much, much more recent than most of the stuff on which Goldberg hangs a good bit of his thesis.
Bombadil
Organic/non-organic means a lot less than in-season/out-of-season. I can’t tell the difference between organic and not organic. I’ll pay a premium for an in-season tomato, but extra for an organic one? Not worth the difference.
capelza
They might want to rethink that analogy…for oh so many reasons.
Though, the image of Jonah Goldberg in place of George Michael is hilarious…think the “I Want Your Sex” video…your welcome.
Cyrus
Who’s doing that? Can you link to them? The argument I see being made is that the right, including Jonah’s own employer, has been pro-racist and anti-left. This would seem to contradict Jonah’s point that racism and The Left go hand in hand.
Bombadil
Are in-season tomatoes fascist too?
Jen
RSA, in one of the earliest blog posts he said something along the lines of, the most important thing is that you read the book. Buy it now.
Indeed, it is central to his point.
Paul L.
Link to Stewart saying this?
WTF does the writer’s strike have to do with releasing the full unedited interview?
Sounds like John Kerry’s promise to sign a form 180 and release his full Military service records to the general public.
I like him because of this
Jonah Goldberg and Soros shill Rosa Brooks.
Jay
Thurman was the only Democratic Senater that voting against the 1964 Civil Right Act that became a Republican. The rest stayed in the Democratic party.
The truth is a larger percentage of Republicans voted for the 1957 and 1964 civil rights act then Democrats.
Please note that the Dixiecrats were formed in 1948 and also disbanded in the same year. Referring to them in the context of the 1960s is wrong.
Yes we know how he feels about white niggers.
ThymeZone
Yes, and it’s worth mentioning that shedding itself of the Southern Democrats of old and enduring the Republican rise based on its scooping up of those voters, was a necessary thing, and has helped shape our party into what it is now … the thing that will save the country from this insufferable GOP beast.
Soon enough, the Dems will turn into assholes again and get all arrogant and corrupt and … act like politicians a little too much, and the pendulum will have to swing. But all in all, putting up with “We won, get over it” as the GOP crowed about its wonderful coalition four years ago was worth it. Now just watch that house of shitty cards collapse!
2008, the Year of Kicking Republican Junk, baby.
Jay
Also note that in order for the 1964 Civil Right Act to pass two thirds of the Senate was needed to break a filibuster lead by Robert Byrd and other Democrats.
Republicans voted overwhelmingly to break the filibuster by 81.8 percent (27-6), but only 65.7 percent of the Democrats voted to end the filibuster (44-23). So if only Republicans in the Congress had voted, any potential filibuster would easily have been overridden. But, if only Democrats had voted, the pro-civil-rights forces would NOT have been able to obtain the necessary two/thirds vote to break the filibuster and the civil-rights bill would have died.
Lee
You do know why they are striking right?
Cybershaman
Goldberg seems to be intentionally ignoring motivations when analysing behaviors. His comment about the Nazis believing “We’re all in this together!” shows he has no understanding of why Jews, homosexuals, and liberals were removed from German society and placed in work camps to provide free labor for their military industrial complex. Eventually they became death camps due to the conditions and unwillingess of the population to provide their ‘slaves’ with basic human needs. If Goldberg is Jewish then he really is completely bass ackwards in his thinking.
Jen
I assume it has something to do with Nifong filing for bankruptcy.
Bombadil
A bit late, but I want to congratulate Tim F. on one of his better post titles.
Bubblegum Tate
It’s like everything I said sarcastically above, except said seriously! Plus with that little semantic sleight of hand wingnuts are so fond of.
Try to respin it all you want, Jay, but the simple fact remains that the Democratic Party kicked out the conservative, racist white Southern vote, which was then warmly welcomed by the Republican Party. Hence the political realignment, the Southern Strategy, etc.
NickM
Jonah: “Fascists wore brown shirts. Liberals like earth tones. Slap a stupid cover on it and give me my money.”
bob
Would it be to “angry” of me to note that giving Jonah Goldberg ANY venue in which to spew his verbal diarrhea is an assault on language, logic and basic intelligence?
grumpy realist
Aside from the fact that Jonah doesn’t seem to know German nor Italian and thus has probably not read any of the material out there he should be going back to. Primary sources, baby, primary sources. And no, you can’t whine and say “but I don’t know the language.” Translators put in their own biases, plus nothing can ever be completely accurately translated. Go back to the damn original material. If I need to learn Latin to read medieval commentators on Roman treason law, Jonah can goddamn well fuckin’ learn to read Spanish, Italian, and German. If he didn’t, this means that dear Jonah has not bothered to read any but a miniscule part of the incredible amount of material out there covering Fascism and that part in European history because MOST OF IT HAS NEVER BEEN TRANSLATED.
In other words, Jonah is a dipshit idiot wanting to pretend he is an intellectual.
I would absolutely love to see Jonah have to do a standard “thesis defense” for this piece of crap. I have no doubt but that he wouldn’t be able to answer a single question.
Jen
Hi bob, truce, I won’t call you angry anymore.
If there were no Doughy Pantload, there would be no pantswettingly funny posts and comments from the last month at Sadly, No and that would be a loss to humanity.
Since we’re stuck with the First Amendment, I expect we ought to go ahead and use it.
It does make me mad that he’s getting paid to write this stuff, though. I kind of want to confiscate it, like they talked about with O.J.’s book. I know, there’s no civil judgment against the DP, but that should really be just a technicality given the circumstances.
AkaDad
With money, dedication, and time, you too can change the meanings of words. With my new book, you can learn how to twist, distort, and actually change the definition of many words, and all for the low, low, price of $19.99.
Paul L.
Greed – Protecting their fiefdoms.
So according to the writers, what is the difference between releasing the edited interview vs. the unedited interview?
Jon is stalling and hoping it gets forgotten.
Or he needs his writers to come up with a excuse for his poor performance.
grumpy realist
P.S. Oh, and yes, it’s possible to come up with a radically different take on a piece of history which is completely orthogonal to what has been said before. This means even more you have to go back to the original sources and be absolutely certain you aren’t making a total fool of your self.
A good example of a radically different take would be Frances Yates’ book on Giordano Bruno and his connection to Hermeticism. (It also contains a good explanation as to why the Church was so spooked by him–he wasn’t just a defender of Copernicus, but trying to overthrow the Church completely.)
John S.
I’m sorry, but the correct answer is ‘Sounds like the Nifong’s promise‘. You will be awarded half points for dutiful regurgitation of a wingnut meme unrelated to the topic.
You are another mindless conserv-a-bot obeying your wingnut overlords? Or is it because Jonah shares your zeal for the Duke lacrosse case? Either answer is acceptable.
Zifnab
Notice how no one ever talks about Ronald Reagan’s civil rights record? Like when he fired U.S. Commission on Civil Rights members who were critical of his civil rights policies, including his strong opposition to affirmative action programs. When he tried gutting enforcement of the Voting Rights Act. How he referred to apartheid South Africa as a friend and ally while embracing a “slow-go” approach to helping dismantle the institution. Or like when he boldly vetoed the Civil Rights Restoration Act of 1988, a veto that was overridden by Congress. Guess which party contributed the pro-veto votes to that bill?
But why talk about St. Ronnie when we can go lambast “evil liberals” from 1964?
STEVEinSC
Jay as a white SC southerner, I can tell you for a fact that the kluxers and Birchites and the good conservative white folks who made up the Southen Democrats in the 50’s and before were segregationists to the core. Where did they go? Repuke party. Some Southern Dems stuck around, maybe jumped parties later or just retired. But if you want names, there’s plenty of ’em here still alive and still kicking.
As to Jonah and the National Review. Irony might be dead, but older readers of the paper version of the rag when Buckley ran it will remember that it smacked of more than a little anti-semitism
ThymeZone
Subtle, but relevant.
John S.
Well, you’re half right. It is about greed, but it isn’t the serfs (writers) who own the fiefdoms – it is the studios. The serfs merely work the land.
Objection! Counsel Nifong is entering facts not in evidence.
D.N. Nation
Jay-
The Southern Strategy happened. I’m sorry, but…it did.
Nice narrative, though.
Lee
One of the many reasons (if not the main reason) they are stiking is about online content and residuals.
So it has everything to do with releasing the content online.
Do you REALLY want to go with that Jon wants it forgotten because of his poor performance?
Really?
Granted you can tell the diffenence during the show during bits, but I have not seen much difference during the interviews.
John S.
You ask this of a person that sees everything through the prism of the Duke lacrosse case and is the self-proclaimed heir to the Kingdom of Idiots.
What do you think?
The Other Steve
Is John Stewart a Fascist?
Lee
Sorry my bad. As soon as I posted that I realized my mistake :)
Ted
I truly, sincerely hope the GOP makes this demand of every war veteran running for federal office going forward. Do keep this up, it’s very dignified and respectful.
Bombadil
Does he eat organic tomatoes?
Scotty
Based on Goldberg’s logic, yes. Based on reality, no.
Paul L.
You mean like Senator Tom “Topgun” Harkin
Don’t forget Gun and men’s reproductive rights.
The unfairness of Family courts.
Abuse of powers by Police.
Adult Stem cell research.
and from the Jonah Goldberg/Rosa Brooks link not granting Geneva convention protections to combatants who disregard them.
wangmo
I recently saw Jonah give an hour lecture on C-Span 2 Book TV. I came in on it after it had begun and had no idea what I was tuning into. Very quickly I realize I’m listening to an insane man speaking. But what was more disconcerting was the fact that after the insane lecture the audience actually asked him questions of a sensibility indicating that the audience took all Jonah said as serious. How did our country develop such a large streak of delusionally psychotic people, who can freely twist facts, history, and common knowledge? The reichwingers seem to find it oddly comforting to their delusions to create a monstrous idea, or destructive policy, and name it something positive, like “No child Left Behind,” or “Clean Air Act,” Just who are they kidding? I guess the Trolls are very easily kidded, and perhaps for some reason all suffer a degree impaired thinking, incapacitated critical thinking, or just outright brain damaged, and they only need to hear nice sounding titles that cover draconian policies to feel okay to drink the fascist propaganda koolaid that lets them continue to somehow believe they are the arbiters of intelligent opinion, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.
One small, but very telling thing he said was something to the effect that he just got tired of being called a fascist and wanted to get even. Being tired of being called a fascist motivated his writing the book. Too bad that he instead didn’t examine where the rot is in his soul that festered into the inhumanity of fascism, and bravely grab his shuddering little balls and vow to evolve.
Jen
I’m against that particular kind of intimacy with guns. If that makes me a liberal, then so be it. I’m sticking with principle on this one.
MJ
They kicked them out? Do you have any proof of this or do you want me to take your word for it? I would think that there be some historic record of the Democratic party kicking them out. Which Democrats that filibustered the 1964 Civil Rights act got kicked out by the Democrats? Can you name one? If the Dems were going to kick people out of there party I would think they might start with them. The truth is all but one stayed a Democrat.
You want me to believe that the south went to the Republican party after 1964 because they were pissed off about the Civil Right act of 1964 to join the Republican party that was a stronger supporters of the 1964 Civil Rights Act? Where is the logic in that?
The logic doesn’t work so lets look at history.
Nixon in 1968 only carried 4 southern states. Perhaps the southerners didn’t get the memo they were to vote Republican? Ford didn’t win any southern state in 1976. They still didn’t get the memo!
So it looks like it took 16 years after the 1964 Civil Right act for the south to jump on the Republican bandwagon. The cause and effect is a bit too slow to support the premise you people are trying to sell here.
John S.
Is that a black helicopter, Paul?
Oh my god…NIFONG FOUND YOU!
Jake
I know this is not true because making Mr. Doughblob McFailurepants look stupider would have resulted in a giant sucking vortex of stupid that turned the planet inside out and knocked the sun into the next galaxy.
He is the sort of sad fat fuck who has just enough grip on reality to say he is sure all mirrors are distorted because there’s no way he’s really that flabby.
John S.
Listen Jonah, we appreciate your further attempts to revise history, but the Southern Strategy is real.
Paul L.
And amazingly the people who agree with you will get outraged when someone points out the corpulence of Micheal Moore, Al Gore, Ted Kennedy, Oliver Willis or the late Steve Gillard.
Xenos
Nothing says hopeless twerp like the “Mens’s rights in probate court” schtick. As someone who has spent a lot of time in probate courts (usually on the wife’s side, fwiw) the men usually do just fine. A certain subset of men who fare poorly do not want to take responsibility for bad decisions and antisocial behaviour eventually gravitate to the ‘Men’s rights’ groups.
These guys sound like Britney Spears: “the Judge is so mean !!!
vinegarhill
Jonah’s book strikes me as further evidence of this insidious tactic of the right, which is to put forth the most outrageous bullshit with a straight face and no apologies. Witness Glenn Beck claiming that FDR prolonged the depression and the entire oeuvre of Rush Limbaugh, Bill O’Reilly and Ann Coulter.
Scruffy McSnufflepuss
Yet they did. It was called the Southern Strategy. Nixon invented it, not liberal revionist historians (as you seem to be implying).
Fuck it, though. Don’t take my word for it, or Wikipedia’s. Take the Republicans’ word for it themselves.
Ted
I don’t care about whom. Because eventually whatever examples you will site will fade in peoples’ memory. And all anyone notice is how Republicans are constantly questioning the validity of the service of war veterans.
Scruffy McSnufflepuss
Grrr. Nixon’s aide invented it, not Nixon. I wish I could edit posts and add in the necessary words around here.
Jake
Fixed.
One day the GOP will learn that shiny beads and mirrors are no longer enough to put one over on the melanin-enhanced folks.
Scruffy McSnufflepuss
Spoken like a true liberal Fascist. I wonder if there’s something in organic foods that makes you especially susceptible to liberalism. Has anyone done any research on that?
Oh, yeah. This guy.
myiq2xu
Jay,waaaaaay back in time, the Democrats were the party of the South and the GOP was the party of the North. That’s why Lincoln was a Republican.
The South stayed Democratic until the Civil Rights Era, but is now almost entirely Republican. You could say that the North and South switched party names.
The “New Deal” coalition was liberal Democrats from the North and conservative Democrats from the South.
You’re correct that most of the “Dixiecrat” Democrats did not switch parties. That’s because most of them died (it was 60 years ago, and most were in their 50-60’s back then.)
The party swap took place beginning in the 1960’s and finished in the 1980’s when Reagan was President.
By your logic, I’m Mexican because California used to be part of Mexico.
ThymeZone
OMFG, now I’ve seen everything.
I eat tofu right out of the package, love it. (Put some soy sauce, or cut up some jalapenos, or drizzle a little Franks Red Hot on it… great snack).
I never knew what it has been doing to me.
Has anyone seen my eye liner?
freddy
Nixon in 1968 only carried 4 southern states. Perhaps the southerners didn’t get the memo they were to vote Republican?
Stupid fuck. George Wallace carried the south in 1968. That was the plan, you moron.
myiq2xu
What outrage? They are fat, except for Al, who has lost weight.
They can all diet if they so choose. But you can’t fix stupid.
Jake
Jay is not using logic, he’s either trolling his litle brains out or trying to calibrate a sales pitch often employed by the numbskulls of the RNC.
Paul L.
Florida Supreme Court: Man Must Pay Child Support For Kid That Isn’t His
BTW the amount of money you get is related to how messy the divorce is, so I’ll take your “the men usually do just fine” quote with a grain of salt.
libarbarian
From a future version of the Urban Dictionary:
Why do you think it took him so many years to get the book out.
Pooh
Paul L.: releasing Jackalopes on BJ threads since at least 2005.
Ted
Shorter Paul L.: Let me show you my pokemons!
Napoleon
Actually it took just months with Goldwater, otherwise on the way to a historic defeat, to take all or a large chunk of the south in a presidential election, something Republican’s had not done until then.
Jay is a perfect example of the total dishonesty of these people.
Pooh
I liked Ted’s better. I retract mine in favor of his.
caustics
Paul L. – Assuming everything goes as planned; shortly after we raise your tax rate to %100, you will spontaneously abort a .50 cal sniper rifle. Cheer up.
The Other Steve
How is this the kid’s fault? He’s only 3 years old.
Jen
I think you missed his point. It’s Mike Nifong’s fault.
The Other Steve
That’s bizarre. I lived in Iowa for ten years, and never heard Senator Harkin boast about his Naval career other than to simply state he’d been in the Navy.
Besides, it’s still a better record than George “AWOL” Bush had from his career, and you guys were claiming he had a very dangerous role protecting the US from invasion by Mexico back in 2004.
The Other Steve
Isn’t Mike Nifong fat as well?
The Other Steve
On a more serious note, I think it’s inappropriate to attack someone fot being fat. It is very much like attacking someone for being black, or crippled.
libarbarian
That depends. Sometimes being fat really is caused by laziness and eating too much.
Jack H.
‘Conservative Communism’ is a book I’m working on that has been made possible by my discovery of ‘the Goldberg Principle’ here at Balloon Juice. Thx Jonah!
John S.
Nice title – great alliteration. Will that have anything to do with ‘Wingnut Welfare’?
MJ
The plan? So tell me about this plan? I want to hear about the Wallace / Nixon conspiracy. It might be time to change your tinfoil hat.
The results are real too. Nixon only won 4 southern states in 1972. Ford won zero 1976. The fact that a higher percentage of Republican voted for the 1964 Civil Rights Act is also real and does not fit the BS being slung here.
I am still waiting for a link to read about how the Democrats kicked people out of the party that didn’t support civil rights. Hasn’t somebody edited Wikipedia yet to reflect this rhetoric?
Jake
Both wrong. It’s CLINTON’S FAULT. (B or H, take your pick)
Krista
Good for you, Jack! I’m thinking that a nice cover would be a picture of Jonah Goldberg, with a Castro-esque beard and cigar, giving the middle finger to a hungry family, while wearing a wetsuit and pissing on the Constitution.
And I need not mention the dildos.
Zifnab
Depending on which conservative you’re talking to, that’s also the reason you are black and/or crippled. Fat crippled black people are, like, the laziest EVAR! That’s why we need to cut their welfare and give it to Ted Steven’s Alaskan Bridge To AwesomeTown.
Ted
You have to make an exception for Jonah. The guy thinks health foods are fascist.
Reading that Salon interview, I was delighted with glee to learn Jonah actually knows what his nickname is. I was worried he was oblivious to it.
Bubblegum Tate
The working title I came up with the other day is Conservative Commies: The Secret History of the American Right from Mao to Reagan
capelza
Was just over at You Tube watching MLK’s “I’ve been to the mountaintop” speech.
Listening to that and then even thinking about some creepy little parasite like Jonah Goldburg…jeezuz…
Jake
According to the Great And Mighty Johan, inequality in the US isn’t that bad because more poor people suffer from obesity than hunger.
As I said, he’s a sad fat fuck.
Pooh
No, no, no, NO. The bridge to awesome town was Rep. Don Young’s baby. Stevens’ is the Bridge to Undeveloped Land My Family Owns.
Jack H.
Conservative Commies: The Secret History of the American Right from Mao to Reagan
I’m liking it Bubblegum Tate. It writes itself> Mao wrote a book and he was a communist. Reagan wrote a book therefore he too must be a communist. J.E.D.(Jonah Erat Demonstrandium)
John S.
Wow, you’re some special kind of stupid, huh?
Let’s look at the vote totals for that piece of legislation by party:
The original House version: (yes%-no%)
Southern Democrats: 7%-93%
Southern Republicans: 0%-100%
Northern Democrats: 94%-6%
Northern Republicans: 85%-15%
The Senate version: (yes%-no%)
Southern Democrats: 5%-95%
Southern Republicans: 0%-100%
Northern Democrats: 98%-2%
Northern Republicans: 84%-16%
So, in actuality, the highest percentage of votes for the legislation came from Northern Democrats, followed by the Northern Republicans. The strongest opposition came from Southern Republicans (not a single one of whom voted for it) followed by the Southern Democrats.
After this, where do you think a majority of those Southern Democrats ended up? With the party that managed to march the most in lockstep against the Civil Rights Act – the good ol’ GOP. Sure, I don’t think the Democratic party asked them to leave, but they really didn’t have to.
caustics
Careful John S, you are treading on Jay’s dreams.
Just think – If George Allen had been able to keep his racism under wraps for just a wee bit longer, he’d probably be running the table for the GOP nomination at this point.
libarbarian
1.
I will totally help out. I’ve been saying for years that the “Conservative movement” has embraced that tactics, arguments, and values of the Bolsheviks and I think I could make a more compelling case than Goldberg can with his schlock.
2.
True, but there are a lot of people who are in shitty circumstances that are not their fault but we don’t expect someone else, who bear no fault either, to pay for them.
This isn’t an easy issue and I don’t want the kid to suffer because of something the problems his parents had, but your argument also seems like a bit of a cop out because it completely ignores the solution that would seem most fair to most people – at least try to find the biological father and get him to pay!
Yes, there are circumstances where this is either not possible or the father is unavailable (dead, insane, overseas) but the court could at least direct social services – or the mother who caused this – to do some kind of investigation. Now that we have the innertubes and places like Facebook, myspace, etc. it is easier than ever to track down random old flings, so can’t the court at least give it a go before forcing a man who is demonstratably NOT the father to pay?
Then there is the moral issue –
I dont want to send the mother to jail but emotionally I want her to get at least a few hundred hours of community service or SOMETHING that at leasts establishes that lying about paternity is malicious FRAUD!
but I also don’t like seeing someone rewarded for duplicity and a man punished for being the victim of duplicity.
HyperIon
hmm, “estrogen-like substances” are no joke, TZ.
Estroven is a soy product that is marketed to women to help them mitigate “lack of estrogen” symptoms. The low rate of breast cancer in Asian societies is attributed to their large soy consumption.
MJ
Are you stupid or just dishonest?
By party
The original House version:
Democratic Party: 164-96 (64%-39%)
Republican Party: 138-34 (80%-20%)
The Senate version:
Democratic Party: 46-22 (68%-32%)
Republican Party: 27-6 (82%-18%)
The Senate version, voted on by the House:
Democratic Party: 153-91 (63%-37%)
Republican Party: 186-35 (80%-20%)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964
Porquin Panko
Seems to me, MJ, that without referring to the geographical breakdown of the vote provided all your post shows is that you can only deal with argumentation on the sticking-your-fingers-in-your-ears-and-screaming-“la-la-la-can’t -hear-you!” level.
Zifnab
MJ, that pie tastes great. Now can you tell me the vote counts on the Civil Rights Restoration Act of 1988?
I can only find the final votes that overturned St Ronnie’s Veto.
Can anyone tell me how many of the “no” votes were Dem and how many were Republican?
caustics
Hey MJ, remember when this guy was supposed to be the future of locked-in permanent conservative dominance? Or this guy? How’s that been working out for the GOP? I guess those mean old ’64 Democrats traveled forward in time just to make Republicans look foolish.
MJ
Porquin Panko John S. is telling me I am stupid when what I said is in fact true. His geographical breakdown of the vote does not change the validity of what I said. If anybody is sticking-your-fingers-in-your-ears-and-screaming-”la-la-la-can’t hearyou!” it is John S.
GSD
But don’t you understand, a larger PERCENTAGE of Republicans voted for the civil rights act. A larger PERCENTAGE!
When the facts don’t comport with your narrative, simply use different words.
It should be noted the civil rights act was signed into law by Lyndon Johnson.
I think used 100% of his hand to sign the bill.
-GSD
Enlightened Layperson
Hm, since Goldberg thinks that healthfood and physical fitness are fascist, it must logically follow that none of these people are fascists.
(As for Conservative Communism, try inverting to Communist Conservatism and it might be more accurate than you would expect).
John S.
Yes, that’s certainly true at the party level.
But see, you were complaining about how bogus the talk about the southern strategy was. So the relevant data to what constitutes this ‘ficticious’ southern strategy includes the regional breakdown of the parties (that’s why the wikipedia link we both used has it broken out like that). It helps to illustrate that southern Democrats voted most similarly to southern Republicans, and more closely to northern Republicans than northern Democrats.
Oh, and Democrat stars with a ‘d’, so suck on that fact!
Johnny Pez
I’d like to point out that when Ron Paul pals around with the Stormfront guys, he’s just doing it to prove that he really is an old-style Buckley paleocon.
Jake
And David Duke just liked clean sheets!
Yea verily, the Republican Party is the last refuge of the lying apeshit scoundrel.
myiq2xu
Some of these arguments are ridiculous. The Green Bay Packers have been around a long time, but the Lombardi Packers led by Bart Starr have little in common besides the name with the Holmgren Packers led by Bret Favre.
The modern Democratic Party can trace its roots to Jefferson, and the GOP to Lincoln. But neither party is the same as it was when it was founded.
Bruce Moomaw
I do wish the defenders of the modern GOP on this site would stop their crap to the effect that it can’t possibly have colluded with white racism because a higher percentage of GOP Senators than Democratic Senators voted for the Civil Rights Act of (early) 1964. The total historical illiteracy of the new generations is getting awfully depressing. (I’m still trying to recover from that Gallup Poll in early 2001 showing that 1/3 of Ameicans — and 1/2 of Americans under 30 — think we were on NORTH Vietnam’s side in the Vietnam War.)
1964, my little chickadees, was the crucial transition year — and not just because the South finallly failed to block black civil rights. It was also the year that the hard Right finally took over the GOP, something they had been trying unsuccessfully to do for decades — and their candidate Goldwater enthusiastically attacked the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Bills, and announced that the GOP’s future strategy should consist of “going where the ducks are”, the ducks being Southern racists. And that, my dears, is why LBJ beat Goldwater 64-36 outside the South but only 52-48 in the South, and Barry won the DEEP South by a landslide. (In Mississippi he got a staggering 87% of the vote.) Southern white racists bolted to the GOP en masse in the Presidential race that year, and the remaining ones have been there ever since. (That, by the way, was also the year that Jesse Helms jumped parties, for the same reason as Thurmond.)
Nixon and Reagan were quite happy to push a quieter version of the Southern Strategy (Nixon’s comments on blacks on the White House tapes are legendary) — although, since a majority of the American people by then clarly backed the 1964 civil rights bills, they were very careful to stick to a sort of sotto voce strategy in which (unlike Barry) they never actually came out against those laws, but continually dropped hints that they wouldn’t be enthusiastic about actually enforcing them, thus retaining the newly Republican allegiance of white Southerners without driving off large numbers of non-racist Northern Republican voters.
As for why most previously racist-supporting Southern Democratic Congressmembers DIDN’T join Thurmond in jumping to the GOP in 1964 and after, it’s simple: they wanted to hold onto their Congressional seniority that allowed them to bring home the bacon en masse to their constituents and thus allowed them to stay in office virtually forever, and they individually knew that even if some of them jumped ship the Dems were certain to maintain their then-landslide control of Congress and throw them out of their commitee chairmanships. (Thurmond, being more fanatical than most of them, did jump ship despite his seniority.) Eventually the South’s hysterical opposition to the civil rights bills faded, of course, as the residents realized that the emanicipated blacks weren’t going to eat them or contaminate their precious bodily fluids — but the political popularity that always goes to a long-time committee chairman who can shovel pork wholesale to his district will naturally always endure, and so the remaining Southern Democrats had less and less reason over the years following 1964 to jump to the GOP. However, when one of them finally did retire, he was usually replaced by a Republican.
By 1980, the year the GOP finally but narrowly retook the Senate for 6 years, the number of old-fashioned racist dinosaurs among the remaining Southern Dem Senators had drastically shrunk — virtually the only ones left were Harry Byrd Jr. and John Stennis — and so the remaining Southern Democratic Senators didn’t jump to the GOP even then. And after 1994 — when the GOP finally retook the House, thanks both to Clinton’s national unpopularity at that time and the fact that an unusually large number of the remaining veteran Southern Democratic Congressmen finally decided to pack it in that year — there have been only a few Democratic members of Congress to jump the fence. 1994 was the year in which the far more gradual Republican takeover of the South in CONGRESSIONAL elections — delayed for 30 years by the political effects of Congressional committee seniority — was finally completed.
What seems to govern Southern politics now is a less intense political afterecho of the region’s past racism, in which a lot of white Southerners — despite not being particularly virulent racists — nevertheless hate “liberals” simply because their parents hated “liberals” for opposing racism, and kids usually follow their parents’ overall politics. It will take a long time for this to fade out completely, simply becuae of the universal Law of Political Inertia.
capelza
A bit from LBJ’s speech before Congress after JFK was killed. WHile everyone is arguing about who was better or worse, let us not forget that all his faults (Vietnam being a huge one)…it was HE that pushed the Civil Rights Acts through.
André Kenji
“Ford didn’t win any southern state in 1976”
He won Virginia and Oklahoma.
In fact, the story is more complicated than it looks, specially because several segregationists politicians were more than segregationists. It´s not so simple.
myiq2xu
Oklahoma is not a “Southern” state.
Redneck, yes. Rebel, no.
I should know, my daddy were an Okie.
Joe
Hell yes it’s a Southern state. The Choctaw and the Chickasaw were among the first to join the Confederacy, and the last Confederate general to surrender was a Cherokee (Stand Watie).
Oklahoma was largely settled by Southerners long before and after the Land Runs, and (look at a map, or ask the U.S. Census Bureau) it — the state itself — is smack dab in the middle of both the Southern Plains (like most of Texas) and the South Central region.
Linguistically, culturally, historically and politically a Southern state, with only touches of Midwestern culture (mostly along the Kansas border) and Southwestern geography (mostly along the New Mexico/Colorado borders).
Get your facts straight.