This is really starting to scare the crap out of me:
MBIA Inc. and Ambac Financial Group Inc., the two biggest bond insurers, have a more than 70 percent chance of going bankrupt, credit-default swaps show.
Prices for contracts that pay investors if Armonk, New York- based MBIA or New York-based Ambac can’t meet their debt obligations imply a 73 percent chance the companies will default in the next five years, according to a JPMorgan Chase & Co. valuation model.
Ambac shares plunged 52 percent yesterday and rose 11 percent today to $6.94 in early trading on news the company was scrapping a plan to raise equity. MBIA dropped 31 percent yesterday and rose 0.9 percent in early trading today to $9.30. Credit-default swaps on the companies, which rise as confidence erodes, are trading at record highs.
I think what scares me the most is that from everything I have read in the last week, no one knows where the rot is- remember, I am a layman, but apparently this stuff was sliced, diced and repackaged so much that there is no telling where all the bad loans are- which means everything is vulnerable. Again, if I am mis-characterizing this, please correct me.
And I really don’t see what a piddling 150 billion stimulus package is going to do.
Jen
Well, if you’d bothered to read your Malkin today, you’d know that the answer is to Suck.It.Up. Evidently, there is no problem that can’t be solved by some form of more sucking.
zzyzx
The advice I’d have is just don’t worry about it too much. There’s really not much you can to affect things or even to insulate yourself from the effects. Hey if Rome’s going to go down, I’m going to enjoy the circuses before it happens.
Punchy
Hey John, go check out Ambac’s stock price (symbol:ABK) and make sure you click on “6 mon.” view. From a Benji to about an Abe in less than 6 months. There’s precipitous decline, there’s Enron-like loss of share value, and then there’s Ambac.
I’m pretty sure their major shareholders are becoming well-versed in where to buy the best rope and how to tie all sorts of different knots…
Richard Bottoms
So just as the war fizzles as an issue a complete meltdown of the economy emerges. The election is going to be glorious.
Goodbye GOP and the conservative assholes who have been running it, and the nation into the ground.
George Bush will be remembered as the worst president in American history.
Sasha
Prop up the corpse of the sub-prime economy long enough so that it doesn’t collapse until after Bush is out of office.
Having it all go pear-shaped before November 3rd would be very, very bad for the GOP.
Ivan Ivanovich Renko
Presuming, of course, the lying sonsabitches can’t figure some way to pin it on the spineless Democrats.
I wish I could stop worrying; but I have grandkids… and I worry what horrors these conservative bastards have yet to unleash on them.
zzyzx
Yes, but think of the amazing stories you’ll be able to tell them about a time when we had the ability to fly to different continents and could afford food whenever we wanted it and stuff…
Face
I think it pays for 3 more weeks in Iraq. Money well-spent, natch.
Jake
Comfort the poor wittle exectutives an’ hedge fund managers who are soooo upset about their no longer quite so humongous assests right now.
The CEOs. Won’t somebody think of the CEOs??
Jim M
John
The rebates wont do much of anything big picture wise. It’s more a show to the people that our government isn’t panicking over this.
I do not believe it is going to work because the government has very little credibility with the public right now.
Zifnab
I, guys, I wouldn’t be too worried. All the C-level managers at those companies are still going to be pulling down seven or eight digit salaries by the end of the year, so how bad could it be? Right?
ny_matt
I work in the financial industry. This is the big story that everyone has tried to keep quiet. The big impact is that if either of these companies go under, then all the big banks will no longer be able to pretend their notes are insured. Once that is true, they will have to mark the values and we are talking 200-300 billion loss. If this was 1960 instead of 2008, we would be talking about a complete collapse like 1929. Given the amount of capital that exists globally, a true depression is almost impossible. However, stagflation is a real concern.
Of course, the next 4 years are going to be a bear. I almost wish that a Republican would win the election, because whomever wins is going to get blamed for this, instead of the real culprit: deregulation.
Dennis - SGMM
Bond insurers, like MBIA and Ambac, are responsible for the payment of interest and principle if the issuer of the bond is unable meet these obligations. Bond insurance is routinely purchased to make bonds more attractive to investors.
Translation: the clusterfuck is so huge that the bond insurers are unable to cover it.
We all know where the bondholders will go for relief when the bonds turn out to be worthless and the insurers go belly up. Both political parties will make noises about shoring up the economy while voting billions of our dollars to bail out these hearty risk-takers. A good slice of the money will, of course, come back in the form of political contributions. Many would call this a “kick back” but we’ll just call it a “win-win.” The Reid-McConnell Financial Regulation Act, prohibiting shenanigans until the next time, will be signed into law
In the words of the august William J. LePetomaine: We’ve gotta protect our phony baloney jobs, gentlemen!
Billy K
Ho-Ho! Anything BUT! You are John Cole…of Balloon Juice! Blogger! Patriot! Leader!
Seriously, though, it scares the crap outta me, too. Things like this are why I’ve never bought property, never really set down definite roots. I guess growing up in the 80s and trying to get my first post-college job in the first Bush recession really scarred me. I’m always convinced the fuckers will find a way to screw the masses and bring everything tumbling down. I try to never forget what it’s like to eat Mac & cheese regularly, keep my overhead low, and to always have a cheap-to-operate vehicle, because I never know when I’ll be poor again.
empty
Is that really true? Not even – don’t replace the old car? Or put any money you have in a mattress?
over_educated
Serious question: Should I start stocking up on canned goods and firearms?
cleek
$150B? it could put an extra $500 in every US citizen’s pocket. and then we could all buy X-Boxen.
Dug Jay
The really good news is that in a year or so, most of the commenters here will be lucky to find jobs mowing their more enlightened and successful neighbors’ yards or babysitting their kids.
MattF
Yeah, the bond insurers going kablooie is a big deal– Bear in mind that the elephant in the room here is the truly huge municipal bond market. A lot of municipal bonds are investment-grade only by virtue of being insured. When these bonds go sub-investment, the pension funds and many other conservative investors that hold them are going to be obligated to dump them. Prices go down, rates go up, cost of borrowing goes up, taxes go up, net income for taxpayers goes down. You get the idea.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
ha. How crude. Unfortunately, that’s the best answer I know of: we gots to take our medicine. No, I do not expect that to be enlightening.
Bingo. No other answers needed. The stimulus will keep up the blood pressure of the economy, not fight this flu we’re infected with.
Or 4 weeks of our military in peacetime. The Stimulus is, in fact, relatively significant.
Nope. The CEOs that fucked up took their bonuses and went home. Secret: The government isn’t the only one with inversed priorities.
Dennis - SGMM
Nope. Because any stimulus package will be paid for by the gov borrowing some money and using that as leverage to, in effect, simply print even more. Keep that up and the US dollar will soon buy you as much as a Zimbabwe dollar or a post-WWI German Mark. If you want to buy something, buy it now before the price goes way, way up.
Walker
At best nothing. At worst more crippling inflation (thank God we have papers like McClatchy that do real reporting). How do you all like your 29.2% eggs?
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Sorry, kiddo, my fund stayed the hell away from subprime. Only means I have to stay here while I ride it out.
And if you don’t like people here, how bored do you have to be to talk to us? Weirdo.
lutton
The Big Picture tackles some of this today, too.
RandyH
A stimulus package won’t fix the mortgage and credit markets, or the insurers of that debt much at all. They’re going down and there’s not much anyone can do about it. But they made their beds… They could have avoided it by sticking to proven lending practices (no-doc loans?) They would be best to fess up about any bad loans they’re hiding ASAP and get all the industry insolvencies out of the way quickly because right now financial institutions are afraid to loan any money to each other since they may not get it back. The remaining financial companies will then be able to start their own recoveries with lower interest rates to assist them. Holders of these bonds backing the bad loans are gonna lose alot of money though, as they are defaulted on.
Meanwhile, the economy could collapse while we’re waiting on them to sort out their losses. Here’s a good article on what the stimulus package is expected to do though and why “tax cuts” shouldn’t be a part of any stimulus package. Consumers need to get out and spend money to keep things going and keep each other employed so a “rebate” check in the mail and extending unemployment benefits more than the normal 6 months helps alot.
Dennis - SGMM
The really bad news is that people like you already have a lock on those jobs.
TheFountainHead
I think at this point the cat is out of the proverbial bag and the only thing that will save us is the fact that we are so well tied to the global markets that countries like China and India will be unable to let us just completely fall apart. It’s not exactly “So goes our market, so goes theirs.” but at the end of the day we’re still tied to them enough that it will be in their interest, hopefully, to prevent complete fallout. Also, China is growing WAY too fast. When they pop that bubble, it will perhaps improve the interest on our Chinese loans as they scramble to recover some capital. At least that’s what my Chinese friends tell me.
Every night I say, “Thank God for China.”
zzyzx
“Not even – don’t replace the old car? Or put any money you have in a mattress?”
If we suffer a minor downturn (which is really what I’m expecting), then yes, those would help. But I always believe in living to (or below, preferably) my means, have been paying down my debt ahead of schedule, and have 7 months of mortgage payments in savings. However, I’d suggest doing that sort of thing even if the future looked peachy keen.
It’s the predictions of uber-disaster where I say there’s not much you can do. If the entire world economy is going to collapse to the degree that people like to predict, unless you have a bunker in the middle of Montana filled with stockpiles of food, your life is going to be bad no matter what happens.
Con Mhac
The answer to that question is always “Yes”.
Walker
In the comments for this blog, I have been pointing out that the Democrats are going to get blamed for this since the 2006 election (when I first learned about the subprime mess and realized what was going to happen). But I am not sure about your desire for a Republican. I don’t believe this country can survive another supply-sider.
Jake
Don’t worry, the Royal House of Saud will come to the rescue. Good thing Bush has made it clear that they’re the good guys and our BFFs. (Pay no attention to those political dissidents behind the bars!) Otherwise Das Base might become a tad rowdy when they realize brown non-Christian dudes Own Their Asses.
Can’t hurt. Just make sure you buy a manual can opener.
Richard Bottoms
My one question for those who are watching the economy crash, their investments tumble, and the banks foreclose on their homes is this: Did you vote for George Bush in 2004?
If the answer is yes, I have no sympathy for you.
The suckers who fell for his bullshit in 2000 I can feel for, but if you voted for the prick last time, well too fucking bad.
Jorge
Just to throw some grease on the fire – if were taxing investor wealth more agressively and had a hard 70% cap on folks making over 10 million added to some strict regulation, you’d make wholesale greed more difficult to pursue.
Look at the equation that led to this – bank investors and executives could literally make generational wealth because they’d be paying a lower tax rate than their secretaries, consumers could buy homes they couldn’t afford and still end up making tons of money by selling out within 2 years, and the government was in the background saying “If you don’t spend all of your money and then some the terrorists have won”
rachel
Seriously? Canned goods anyway; if severe inflation or stagflation is on the horizon, you’ll be glad you got them at a cheaper price when you could. Pantry items like flour, honey, rice, beans and powdered milk etc. would be a good idea too, if you know about safe long-term storage methods.
Shit, I’d do it anyway even if the economy weren’t threatening to go south because the more you keep on hand, the less shopping you have to do. And I hate shopping.
The Other Steve
Clearly the problem with the financial markets is too much regulation.
This whole problem could be solved by reducing the number of unnecessary regulations, and lowering taxes on business.
The Grand Panjandrum
My well fortified compound has been ready for every eventuality. (Almost every eventuality! Who knew that half the country was stupid enough to vote for the former Cheerleader! Twice!) I got a laugh out of Tom Ridge and the rest of the half-bright rat-bastards telling us to stock up on duct tape and plastic sheets in came the Islamofascists came knocking. Ha! What ever happened to the good old days? Jesus! The enemy within is the only one I ever worry about. They’re usually a bunch of prissy suit wearing quislings with a small army of jack-booted thugs in tow.
Good times, eh?
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Except, if they weren’t panicking, they’d do nothing and tell us to shut up.
That’s unimportant. They want to keep this bomb from blowing up during their term, but they want to keep it ticking for the next 12 months to keep people from remembering that the Oval is occupied by a war criminal.
They’re currently in Enron mode. They don’t want you looking their way while they destroy the documents.
The Other Steve
I got a laugh out of the Countrywide retention bonuses.
The market is collapsed. These execs aren’t going to be leaving and going to a different mortgage company.
zzyzx
I heard the whole, “The Democrats should lose so the Republicans should take the blame” argument in 2004. How did that go?
Walker
It is not that easy. Their are no safe havens for investing anymore. I have been looking for well over a year now. Collapse of easy credit is taking out the stock market, and because of the Fed’s inflationary monetary policy, you cannot get reasonable return on bonds. And commodities are a really nasty way to lose your shirt.
Republican/Democrat. Bleh. I want Volker.
Jen
Actually, the people who are supposed to suck things up are the people whining about losing their houses. People who complain about the War on Thanksgiving are always welcome, no need to suck anything up there.
It was a pretty tangential relationship to the topic of the post, but it pissed me off. Speaking of which, did you hear about Huckabee’s bizarre pandering to the SC troglodytes about their Confederate flag? Shorter Yglesias: Yep, Jesus would definitely support threatening vaguely to sodomize people with flagpoles.
zzyzx
My investments have a large overseas fund segment because I’ve been worried about the falling dollar.
The Other Steve
This is all Bill Clinton’s fault. The mortgage market started going out of whack in 1999 under his watch.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Amended.
This is likely the case. The few smart and well-off people in the Mideast do, in fact, have functioning brains, and they know that they can’t keep running their shit the way they do with out psychos blowing themselves and others up, and incurring the wrath of the global community.
So it’s highly likely they’re seeing this as a lucky opportunity to do business in our court instead of their own. It’ll tie their future closer to ours, give them a bargaining chip at the table, and give them a cushion when oil runs out.
The only question is how they’ll get the poor nutcases to stop trying to kill us. I don’t think they were ever too worried about that, but being tied to our industries will give them more motive to get up off their asses, methinks.
Walker
Oh, I have that too. That has been working out for me, for now. But decoupling is a myth. It won’t happen. If it could the dollar would have fallen much, much further by now.
And Europe’s bubble is pretty bad too. Just look at what the housing market in the UK is doing to the bank Northern Rock. UK is the California of Europe; it exported its housing inflation to the rest of the continent.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
(I was unclear: I work for a well-managed hedge fund. Meaning my paycheck is relatively stable. But that’s not very important to anyone here, now is it?)
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Well, shit, it can’t be that hard to find a Rhodes Scholar to marry. Come on people, get to it, financial stability awaits you!
zzyzx
Well then, let me go back to the, “There’s not that much you can do about it except a few minor things around the edge, so try not to worry too much” philosophy. :)
Walker
There is some legitimate argument that he is at fault for the repeal of Glass Steagall, which started us down this road. But the real blame is Greenspan and all Greenspan. He chose to ignore others in the Fed when there was a call for better regulation and oversight in 2000.
History will not remember that man kindly. Especially considering his recent attempts to profit off the mess he made.
Zifnab
Gee, blame the Democrats? I never would have seen this strategy coming. If the Dems had been swept from power in 2006 via some Rovian Math master strategy they’d still be getting blamed for bad economics. It would just be insurgent elements within the Soros-sponsored market segment. Or those hippies in the environmental movement, putting a drag on the economy via the EPA. Or terrorists. Or who the fuck cares, but its all Clinton/Democrats/liberals fault all the time.
There is absolutely nothing you can say or do that will change this bullshit. Just elect as many Democrats as you can and ignore it.
libarbarian
Well, she has the lips for it.
Jake
Individual companies are also wrapping up their search for internal scapegoats. I know they’ll try to say the Democrats are at fault but all of this is breaking way too early for their comfort.
Ideally we would be getting the first hints that something was wrong around now. Mortgage issues could be blamed solely on idiots who didn’t read the fine print and ‘had no business buying a home in the first place.’ By the time anyone got full picture of the magnitude of the mess it would be 2009.
I guess they’ll say no one could have possibly foreseen was impossible to maintain eternal war and outsource jobs and cheat like a bastard and keep the domestic economy somewhat viable.
bob
This is the natural result of laissez faire capitalism. Welcome to Sept 1929, folks. This is YOUR FUCKING FAULT you goddamn republican assholes. Same as it was in 1929. Fucking greedy jerkoffs.
Otto Man
No worries. I’m sure China will let all our IOUs float indefinitely.
The Other Steve
No one could possibly have foreseen that giving loans to people who couldn’t afford to pay them back was a bad idea.
myiq2xu
It will even affect the homeless – pretty soon they will be competing for space under bridges and in the shelters.
myiq2xu
It would keep her from talking too
libarbarian
None of this matters because Obama is going to be our next president and he transcends economics.
myiq2xu
well-managed hedge fund = hasn’t crashed yet
just sayin'
A good slice of the money will, of course, come back in the form of political contributions.
Actually, only a tiny slice needs to come back as political contributions. It’s remarkable how cheaply they sell themselves.
Fe E
That’s for sure. WHen I was in college in the early 90s, I remember seeing all of those “sign up for a credit card and get a free….” booths and wondered what might make me think, that since I didn’t have any money noe, and had no income, I would surely have more money later.
It seems I should have gone a step farther–what happens to the lenders when they lend all their money to people who are unable to repay the loans.
Worst case scenario–I don’t have any children and used to be a wellsite petroleum geologist, I suppose I could do that again….
Face
I think Cole just got bitch-slapped.
Fe E
Ooops: “noe” = “now”
Walker
The tax payer bails them out, silly. Bankers never take on risk.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Tell me about it! TRANSCENDENTALISM!! TRANSCENDENTALISM!!
And the pony’s mane is made licorice! YUM!
Ok, but seriously now, this is would actually be a good time to read position papers and start comparing. The shit hit the fan just before the crunch in primaries, we know none of the Republicans can put forth a serious plan in economical theory (whether by deficience or lack of support).
Now would be a very good time to hunker down and start comparing Hill’s and Obama’s (and maybe Edwards’s) position papers and get a solid opinion on this.
I know John is not too happy that Obama leaves all his positions indoors next to the laundry, but it’s time to stop bitching about where the policy is and time to know what it is.
How about it? We come back on Monday and actually start talking about policies?
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Oh, and 40 minutes, 55 seconds to the release of the Bush plan
46, 45, 44 seconds …
ThymeZone
Buy gold.
Go to your online stock account and start buying shares of the ETF “GLD”
Good luck!
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
We’ll see. But I’m about the luckiest fucker here, given that. I can’t imagine, having no poison in us and having people on the payroll that know what poison looks like, that we’ll go down early in the game.
myiq2xu
Like I said before, I’m glad I spent all my money on booze and cheap women. I’d be really pissed if I saved it for nothing.
Dreggas
Canned goods, ammunition, drinkable water.
I have been saying people need a zombie plan and this was one of the reasons. What most forget is these guys are the ones who insured big shit pile. Once that’s gone…well…I wouldn’t want to be walking buy any tall buildings down in Manhattan.
And the stimulus? As much as I want to bitch slap the morons who think an 800 dollar check is going to help me, I have to sit here and say “send it quick” only so I can stock up on the above items while they are affordable.
And to think we used to think that bread lines in russia could never happen here.
And the band played on…
Napoleon
It is even worse for me. Pretty much the only area I work in is commercial real estate and this has the looks of something really bad.
I was at least smart enough to do that as soon as I saw Bush win re-election. Unfortunately it’s all retirement money and in any event not really enough to keep me a float if things are bad enough long enough.
Walker
With inflation at the rate is right now (my propane bill was $5 a gallon a few days ago!), saving is pointless. You could probably protect your purchasing power more by buying lots of crap right now and then selling it on eBay when you need liquidity.
Bombadil
Monday’s a holiday, and some of us will still be hung over from celebrating the Patriots’ victory over the Chargers. Can we make it Tuesday?
cleek
my best-performing mutual fund is one that’s strictly limited to companies that keep on the good side of the Koran – AMAGAX. no, really.
Walker
Oh yeah. You guys are next. We have 10 times as much retail space per person as Europe.
Are you construction (ouch) or just selling? Got any escape options planned?
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Sure, no prob. I just sent emails off to the campaigns that we’re going to kick back Super Tuesday to Wednesday. The FEC hasn’t gotten back to me about altering the date of Election Day.
:P
Take your Echinacea before you’re sucking down whole bottles of Nyquil. Not that there’s anything bad about Nyquil.
RandyH
Oh my god. I just changed the channel to CNBC and they have this silly countdown timer on the bottom of the screen labeled “Bush Plan.” Right now it’s at 25 minutes and some seconds and some nanoseconds to go. Oh boy. Monkey boy’s got a plan to save the day. Can’t wait. How much ya wanna bet he’s gonna say “Congress needs to make my tax cuts permanent!”
Jake
Well, it wasn’t supposed to be a bad idea for the company that held the note. If/when the current home “owner” couldn’t pay foreclose and get another sucker in there. Dear me, people are soo irresponsible, what a shame. Repeat as necessary, it’s a perpetual money machine!
But gee, someone demanded much tougher bancrupcy rules – for individuals – and the price of gas shot up which made everything more expensive and now there are an inconveniently large number of empty houses. Wow, could it really be that entire neighborhoods full of people were that reckless?
So now states like Ohio are pissed and starting to push back and if we’re lucky we’ll get to watch banks as they try to wage a multi-front war.
Popcorn?
Walker
There isn’t a bookee alive that will underwrite that bet.
grumpy realist
Front-page article in FT today about the whole bond insurance mess.
The “subprime” mess is separate from the whole slide-in-the-economy mess, the latter which is what the stimulus package is aimed at.
Right now the larger US companies are so tied into the global economy that the good stuff seems to be coming from abroad, result–> still have reasonable profits –> stock market still happy.
I expect a stampede back towards commodities, blue-chips, foreign ETFs.
Jake
Why do I think that such a token of the Pretzledont’s esteem would come attached to a few strings thick enough to moor the QE2?
RandyH
Oh look! Monkey boy is on my TeeVee.
Dreggas
Bush. Can’t. Do. Shit.
Congress. Can’t. Do. Shit.
The yakking morons on the TeeVee need to get that through their thick fucking skulls. Bush is just going to piss more gasoline on the fire. Cut corporate taxes now and every corporate CEO is gonna tuck that money away (big surprise). Give me 800 and I am gonna blow it on everything I can get my hands on to eat for the next, oh, 4-5 months (canned goods are cheap ATM). Just go for it jackasses. This, America, is what you get from Republican rule, always has been always will be. Just preserve those snow-flake babies and keep the homosexuals from marryin’. Just means there’ll be more meat when the game runs out. Wendigo Bitches!
Napoleon
Well I am an attorney that does nothing but commercial real estate work, a hugh chunk of it in lending. So it is some of both construction and buy/sell (in a manner of speaking, in that the borrowers of our client or our clients do both). We (but not me personally) do a hugh chunk of work in the retail leasing area also, and luckly that is national work and not just limited to North-east Ohio (which is likely overbuilt in retail even by American standards). The last downdraft I saw was around 91 and we are long overdue for another.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Yeah, they do that anytime someone is about to say something. When Bernanke spoke the second to last time, it was at some prissy old-woman’s club or something. 1 HOUR, 17 MINUTES, 32 SECONDS TO GO UNTIL DOILIES!!!!
How much you wanna bet it’s going to get dark tonight. I’ll make the bet sweeter: after it gets dark, it will get light again the following morning.
zzyzx
“I’ll make the bet sweeter: after it gets dark, it will get light again the following morning.”
Unless you live in the Pacific Northwest where it just gets less dark this time of the year…
4tehlulz
Whoa there cowboy. Don’t do anything crazy.
bob
This isn’t going to be an “adjustment”, this is going to be a full on crash. Aren’t you republican voters just happy as clams that you went for all that deregulation business? Good thing our utility prices are low thanks to market forces, huh? Oh, they’re not? Wow, who could have guessed? Good thing Volker and Greenspan conquered inflation back in 1983, huh? What, you mean things cost 5 times what they did then? Huh. I guess that isn’t inflation because housing, food and fuel don’t count. Nice rules you assholes made up to replace the new deal. Good job. You know, John, I’ve come to respect you because of the honesty of your change of mind, but I still wonder what took a guy as smart as you so long to realize that NOTHING the republicans have done since Nixon has been correct. In ANY area. It’s a puzzle to me. But welcome aboard the SS DFH, anyway.
Gus
I just started working for a company that was poised to really take off. I hope the coming tide of bullshit doesn’t swamp us, especially since my pay is heavily based on bonuses.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
I award you 5 points for seething rage
I award you 0 points for unilateral, unsupported assignment of blame. Nothing? Absolutely nothing?
Really?
Not even deregulation in the face of a market upturn and a bloated, half-asleep airline industry? Did JetBlue really piss you off that bad? I always thought we could award blatant, self-assured republicanism that one…
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
I’ve been there. GTFO if you can. ESPECIALLY if it’s a finance or trading venture. Get a job if you can find one, w/ salary, fuck the bonus. Only go into finance if it’s a stable firm with a history. No hedge funds or trading firms under 2 years old. No experiments.
Stay. the fuck. away. from exciting. Toyland is over.
Dreggas
Is it, by any chance in one of the following industries?
Glass Windows
Rope Manufacturing
Tin Shanty manufacturing
Cardboard Shanty Manufacturing
empty
Yahoo Headlines:
Tsulagi
Not to worry. It is The Surge II. Commander Guy is in charge. He and co-commander Cheney will bring all their vaunted private business successes and skillz to bear on the problem. See War, Iraq.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
You mean we can now all get jobs building
concentration campsholding penspit stops for illegals and unworthies?LiberalTarian
If you have a psychology of scarcity in an economy of abundance, you are likely to come out fine. If you have a psychology of abundance during an economy of scarcity, you are ill-prepared to make the sacrifices needed to help you weather an economic storm.
What is odd to me is that I have been told that Republicans are the ones who worry about things, have more frequent nightmares, etc. Yet, they always seem to worry about invasion, and they do not seem to worry enough about a systemic economic failure. WTF?? Unless, of course, it has always been a charade.
Re “economy of scarcity/abundance, psychology of abundance/scarcity” I am not sure who originally coined the terms, but I did find a 1961 article that included both concepts (Robert H. Bohlke, Problems of Tomorrow: Social Mobility, Stratification Inconsistency and Middle Class Delinquency, Social Problems, Vol. 8, No. 4. (Spring, 1961), pp. 351-363.) My first exposure to them was in 1992, with Newsweek’s “Whose Values?” issue.
LiberalTarian
Not hardly. Enlightenment and education tend to be characteristics of the liberal intelligentsia, and we have long been skeptical of the current administration and its policies. We are likely to be fine.
You, on the other hand, may need to start scoping out soup kitchens and a sturdy cardboard box.
Tsulagi
Nope, I mean Commander Guy is now making sure his direct hotline to daddy is working. In case like old times he needs to cry to daddy to get him and his friends to bail him out. That’s his business resume.
Cheney? His private business experience is pretty much limited to being CEO of Halliburton. Where he damn near bankrupted the company with his visionary plan of buying businesses with huge asbestos-claim exposure because they were priced cheaply. Smart move. Halliburton must have a chapel where they thank God Cheney is in Washington.
We’re in good hands.
bob
Yes, Caidence, NOTHING. Foreign policy. Wrong. Economy. Wrong.Drug war. Wrong. Shall I go on? I don’t know anything really about Jet Blue, but I know a friend who got his back twisted pretty bad in the jammed together seats on a flight to Hawaii. His back was already bad, but it made it worse. Has airline deregulation been a joy for you? Was flying more enjoyable in the 70s, or today? I dunno, I don’t fly much. However, I defy you to point out ONE policy of Reagan, Bush or Bush that has had long lasting positive consequences for the country.
Tony J
You might want to invest in a recurve bow, some body-armour and a really big sword, then print off an awful lot of Wiki articles on hunting, skinning and eating things you don’t find in the shops no more.
Because 21st century Westerners have forgotten how bad things can get when the shit really hits the fan. And I’m currently feeling pretty paranoid and reading too many dystopian novels.
Damn you, Scott Beauchamp!
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Hint: Halliburton’s subsid. KBR got a contract from the US Gov’t to produce fenced in holding areas for illegal immigrants. That plus the Weimar Republic mindset on the Right, follows to my joke.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
No, thanks. Don’t blame you for your anger, but you’re not really pointing to anything I can attempt to do anything about. So I just keep walking and leave you to do what you please :)
Terminus Est
Well, not having enough of an income to toss into hoity-toity overseas “investments” I focused on bullets. I am prepared to go out and take what I need to keep me and my family floating from the likes of Alan Greenspan by force, if need be.
We all have to focus on our strengths when we plan for dealing with disasters. Mine is a steady aid under pressure.
Terminus Est
BAH! that is “steady aim” (except on the keyboard).
LiberalTarian
Yikes.
HyperIon
If they give me 300, or 500, or 800 dollars, I will save every penny. For the last 10+ years I have been befuddled by the constant drone of “consume, consume, consume”. Sorry but I don’t need anymore shit! I already have enough shit. My extra income goes to my retirement because I really don’t want to eat dog food when I’m 65.
This is just stupid. Too many Americans live beyond their means. They have too much debt…which translates to “too much shit that they cannot afford”. The idea of a consumer driven economy has always sounded to me like a ponzi scheme…not sustainable. So now that we are in deepening economic trouble (due in part to the desire to “consume, consume, consume” and to enable said consumption), what to do? Give everybody some money and tell them to….”consume, consume, consume”.
Leon Russell in my head singing: And it’s a hard rain that’s gonna fall.
LiberalTarian
It’s true–we’ve become a nation of hoarders, buying up useless shit that ends up owning us (instead of us owning it).
I think the hard times will help mature us as a nation.
Or, maybe some twitchy idget will start WWIII, and we’ll all be knocked back into the stone age.
Upside of a nuclear strike in your hometown: free cremation.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Correct.
Correct.
Anyone know any good joints to stay at in Wyoming?
Praedor Atrebates
Oh! That’s a tough one. A good joint to stay in in Wyoming? Look around! Does it LOOK like there could possibly be a good place there?! HELL no. You need to shift West a bit (Idy-ho…but beware the skinheads and backwoods nazis). Ory-gone is also a reasonable place. Wyoming, on the other hand…that might as well be N. Dakota as far a “good joints to stay in”.
Not to harp a particular theme but…$800 will buy you about 740 rounds of 7.62 NATO rounds. It will buy you about 1400 rounds of 5.56 NATO (but you will have problems shooting accurately through brush or even glass in a pinch). It will buy you an AK-47 AND about 1300 rounds of 7.62×39 rounds.
It will also buy you about half a dozen or so cases of MREs. It will buy you the materials necessary to build your own windmill generator, literally, from scratch, including the permanent magnets and other materials for building the generator portion.
Or it will buy you a buttload of Whitecastle burger thingies.
Priorities man. Priorities.
bob
Caidence, it’s far more than anger. And you can’t DO anything about any subject discussed on any political blog. These are large problems that need solutions. Take the drug war, for example. I don’t think I need to go into the whole list of negative consequences, both intended and unintended of the drug prohibition. The jails are full, mental health is overburdened, rights lost for posession of a seed, etc, ad nauseum. This policy has been a DISASTER, and it was the law and order Republicans that made it happen. Carter called a truce, but Reagan ended that, and it has been 27 years of heartache ever since.
When I say the republicans have been wrong about everything since Nixon, I don’t really think I need to recite all the decisions made that have screwed the pooch. Nixon ran as the peace candidate, knowing the whole time he was going to escalate. Ford absolutely betrayed his constitutional duty in pardoning Nixon before any trial had occurred. Carter wasn’t perfect, and I’m not a big fan of Brzezinski, but for the most part, things were quiet until the Shah got sick and our house of cards in Iran fell apart. Reagan set the stage for all this with the Nicaragua bullshit, coke for money for guns for the Ayatollah, on and on. More of the same from Bush Sr.
It’s time to realize it’s the republican party that is doing all this. There is some collaboration from corporatist democrats, but pretty much the ONLY opposition that has a chance of doing anything is in DEMOcracy and a turning back from the aristocratic impulse that has driven the whole “conservative” movement. I guess all this is anger driven and unreasonable, though, so it can be dismissed as the ranting of a loon. I’d rather not fight with you though, we seem to agree on more than we don’t.
tofubo
re the big shitpile (h/t atrios), we have godwin’s law, cole’s law, etc, now jensen’s law
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AI8mC8XucY
the more things happen that are so fucked up, the more Network become even more relevant
TenguPhule
Whole lot of people at the top that could use some Force Strangulations.