Glenn Greenwald has the details. Why did I become a Democrat again?
by John Cole| 62 Comments
This post is in: Democratic Stupidity, Republican Crime Syndicate - aka the Bush Admin.
Glenn Greenwald has the details. Why did I become a Democrat again?
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Yeah, it’ll be interesting. And infuriating. And depressing.
But, it might make a good drinking game.
Amendment Idea #487: the public shall have the right to form a referendum vote of No Confidence if Congress is not fulfilling their duties.
Wait, they’re going to try and sustain a filibuster (with some hope of success) against what is essentially a threeway cluster assfuck from Bush, the Republicans in Senate and the Bushblower media and you’re calling the Democrats cowards?
Harry Reid deserves that for bending over on this, but it is unfair to label all of them with that brush here, John.
The shitpile would have passed before now if Dodd hadn’t stood up and did the right thing.
I humbly submit, because Democratic voters will at least call their guys on their cowardice rather than excuse it or embrace it. There may be a conservative out there wailin’ on Bush as hard as GG wails on the Dems, but I haven’t seen him yet.
You became a Democrat to appease your commentariat.
Now, you are in the group that REALLY despises Democrats. The Republicans try to do it, but they are just pretenders.
Yeah, quite disapointing. I need to write to my senator and tell him to help. Generally, Oregon has been pretty good and I’ve rarely had to go and scream at them to vote a certain way.
Harry Reid though needs to get his ass handed to him. His leadership stinks of cowardness. Dodd is the hero and he should get a post in the democratic administration (if they win…)
If not by law, he’ll get this by fiat. Executive Order #…what…12,893? will grant immunity (and/or he’ll pardon everyone associated with it) to the telecoms during his last week in office.
Now that I think about it….what exactly WONT he do in his last week in office?
Cheers to that. Chris Dodd is the reason you are voting Democrat, John. And Robert Byrd – your senior senator who you held your nose and voted for – will be supporting Dodd on this issue as well. Come November, you’ll be voting Democrat because under a Clinton or a Carter this vote would never have to exist, as we wouldn’t be getting spied on to begin with.
Well, I called my Senator on Friday (Bill Nelson D-FL) to find out where he stood. For those of you that follow these things, he was one of the senators that broke ranks on last week’s cloture vote.
His office assured me that he is opposed to retroactive immunity and is a co-sponsor of the Feingold amendment that strips it from the intelligence committee version. His vote last week was merely procedural.
So that should be one vote for cloture today we can forget about, which actually should be enough.
Well, there’s a good chance that we’ll lose eventually, but a very good chance we’ll win today. Call your Senators — especially if they’re wavering Dem types — and ask them to VOTE NO ON CLOTURE. The vote comes up at 4:30 today, and even Reid and Rockefeller, reportedly, are so p.o.’d at the Repubs that they will vote NO as well. Also it’s reported that Obama and Clinton will show up today for the vote.
Let’s wait to be depressed — get out there and call now! FDL has the phone and fax #s.
Okay, you’re right, TZ wins.
I’ve always liked this Al Franken quote:
Hey, Dr. Cole…you joined the Democrats because you didn’t want to belong to an organized political party. Now you know what you get those SorosBucks(TM) for — holding your temper with the disorganization.
The Moar You Know
I agree that some of them are cowards, but hey, some of them are not and are fighting to do the right thing here.
And, you must admit, we’ll get a question answered today; who’s running Congress? Is it the majority party or the minority party? It’s about time we got that question settled.
The R’s are not looking all that organized this year….
Yes, so far Giuliani has gotten his butt handed to him by Ron Paul, but he’s going to win in Georgia. I’m beginning to think his campaign strategist is actually a Democratic plant.
Prediction: several of the treacherous-not-treasonous-twelve will not vote. That will have the effect of keeping cloture from passing, but won’t leave fingerprints on the final vote. I’m betting that Inouye will do that, and that Landrieu might. In the end, the Bush administration won’t get the super majority it wants.
Second prediction: the Dems will get more and more spine as the year wears on.
I’m trying to sell it to them as the ultimate flip-flop. It’s the only brazen pander you haven’t tried, to the people who voted for you! Just try it, in the name of inconsistency and disorganization, if nothing else. You can always scurry back under Bush’s skirt if the Dreaded Fist of Disapproval of Your Overreach comes down on you!
You’ve got to speak their language.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
I can’t believe Dems aren’t on the podium right now going “Can you believe this asshole?? We’re going to maintain security and surveilance, and he’s going to veto it!!!”
Nah… that would be meeeeeeeean.
“Why did I become a Democrat again”
Because when the choice is “Incompetent” or “Evil,” incompetent starts looking pretty good…
Please tell me you didn’t just suggest that Republicans aren’t incompetent.
“I’m trying to sell it to them as the ultimate flip-flop. It’s the only brazen pander you haven’t tried, to the people who voted for you! Just try it, in the name of inconsistency and disorganization, if nothing else. You can always scurry back under Bush’s skirt if the Dreaded Fist of Disapproval of Your Overreach comes down on you!
You’ve got to speak their language.”
I hate the fact that *that* is so damn funny.
I hate bush and have since before he was “elected”. I voted for Kerry in ’04. I am also quite conservative, not to be confused with republican(authoritarian). I just stopped wailin’ because I got tired of preachin’ to the choir. I know some magical polls say he has 24% – 28% approval but I have yet to meet anyone outside of the trons that still supports him and I live in Alabama, near a military base and surrounded by defense contractors. I’ve met retired military, social security collecting, lifelong republican pentacostals(not the snake handling kind but fanatical nonetheless) who said they would vote for a straight dem ticket in ’06 and I suspect they did. When I can say bush is the worst prez ever and get agreement from that crowd I know I’m going to have to look under some rocks to find people to convert.
“Please tell me you didn’t just suggest that Republicans aren’t incompetent.”
Look at how far towards fascism they moved this country in 8 years. In 2000 could you have possibly guessed that three years later an american citizen would be grabbed by the state, held without trial or access to lawyers, and tortured?
I consider them *highly* competent when it comes to certain things, evil among them.
The Grand Panjandrum
Jen swings … it’s going. Going. Gone! She hit it out of the park!
I don’t think anyone is going to top that. I am still laughing!
I couldn’t agree more. If you think this administration is incompetent you should at least consider the idea that their agenda is different from what you suspect. They have accomplished many of their stated goals and a whole lot more that fits with their twisted, criminalistic ideology.
always ready to fold in new and surprising ways: it’s the Origami Congress.
I’m as bad an offender as anyone but why is it that Republicans blindly support other Republicans but Democrats are tougher on other Dems than they are on Republicans? It’s a really big difference in psychology And I should add that despite the general blind public support, Republican are much more likely to really hate some other Republican (not just basing this on the Bush-hating ones I know, but on the crazy McCain-hating ones as well).
I have a whole theory about this and how it ties in with ethnicity but I think it may offend.
If we don’t give the Telecoms immunity for committing felonies, you’ll die in a terrorist attack.
That surprises me. So where on earth are these dead-enders, if they’re not Rollin’ with the Tide? Are the polls just wrong? I know one dead-ender, a born-again, only one I’ve ever known.
Excellent. I tried giving his office a call a couple times but didn’t get through. Although, I really don’t think last week’s vote was just a procedural vote… We could have gotten a better bill with a few more votes (well, a lot more votes). But with his and Rockerfeller’s alleged flip, and Obama and Clinton showing up for their jobs, we’re pretty close to sustaining this filibuster now…
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
I third this.
My most general description for this crew is that most of them are severely neurotic, needing to win at every turn.
a.) They’ll win by vetoing something that give them half of what they want. (This subject)
b.) They’ll win by maxing out their party’s credit. (Rove)
c.) They’ll win by keeping someone on while they lose Congress (Bush didn’t toss Rummy until after the election, even though it was a done deal)
They’d kick a dead horse if they thought the horse’s spirit could feel it. Over and over again. and over. and over and over and over and…
Take that foundation, pepper with Neocons and Christianists. Serve warm, rectally.
They’re doing what they want. It’s just that what they want is extremely absurd to us. We plan on being around 20 years from now.
Don’t forget, we actually hate Democrats because we want them to do things like stand up for the Constitution. Republicans hate them because… uh…
You know I don’t know why the Republicans hate the Democrats–the Dems have let themselves be fucked in the ass this entire time. Maybe it’s residual self loathing gay hate? You know like when they try to make homosexuality illegal but keep a dozen barely legal pretty boys in the closet for themselves?
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
HRC is actually DOING SOMETHING to get on my good side!
Wow, I’m dizzy. If she manages to do this frequently until Feb. 5th, I might have to pop my lips off the Pony’s left buttock.
Caidence (fmr. Chris)
Obama is in gear to do the same, apparently, but I’m not really surprised.
I was a little confused myself, but when I pressed the staffer on the matter she said that because only one bill could be considered at a time, Nelson voted to kill the bill so the Senate could move on to the other one (which would contain the Feingold amendment he is co-sponsoring).
Before I hung up, I asked, “So to clarify Senator Nelson’s position on the matter, he is opposed to any sort of retroactive immunity?” and the response was “Yes”.
If Rockefeller and Nelson don’t vote for cloture, that should leave only 58 votes for it. That assumes none of the other Democrats change their votes. The only one on the list of 12 I think you can count on to march lockstep with the GOP is that piece of shit Nelson (the other one, Ben) who may as well caucus with Lieberman, considering how he votes.
Even if Obama and Clinton are a no-show, it will have no effect on the cloture vote. Without Nelson and Rockefeller, it won’t have 60 votes to pass.
ooh! ooh! I have a new answer!
Now to get everyone REALLY confused, it appears there are TWO cloture votes, one from Reid and one from McConnell. See Tim Tagaris at Open Left for explanation.
I don’t understand which one should get the “yes” vote and which one the “no” vote — so I’ve switched my phone call message to “vote with Chris Dodd on FISA” and “vote against George Bush on FISA” — figuring that Dodd knows what he’s doing on this issue.
lets see… if the Senate passes a 30 day extension of the current law, which expires Friday, what happens next. Either the House passes a similar extension, or the bill goes into a conference committee to resolve the differences between the House and Senate versions.
I’d love to see the latter happen, because what will come out will be the House bill…. But I suspect that the House will actually pass its own 30 day extension.
Regardless by Thursday both houses will have passed bills, and will announce that they are taking up the ‘anti-recession’ economic stimulus package — basically daring Bush to make a choice between a recession, and having his way on telecom immunity.
They pulled some bullshit trick like this a while back on some non-issue Sense of the Senate resolution fluffing the Iraq War. The bill was worded to make everyone vote the wrong way, and a good laugh was had by all in the Republican Party when it passed.
I hope Democrats don’t take this opportunity to declare “whoops, our bad!” and finagle their way out of voting intelligently. That would probably make me physically ill.
p.luk — IIRC, the House is scheduled to vote on a thirty day extension this morning. It’s going to pass (of course), so, realistically, the Senate could have it on the President’s desk by midnight tonight.
Me, I think that they should postpone this evening’s joint session to deal with that important business.
Because, while our leaders are craven and pathetic, at least the rank and file aren’t bat-**** insane?
It’s the reptile mind. It works best in absolutes and extremisms, which explains the Republican ability to follow some blindly and hate others in an equally un-sighted manner.
Poll everyone’s elderly dad–>Bush favorable rating is 98%
Poll everyone under the age of 40–> rating of 3%
Really, demographics is everything with this clown.
peach flavored shampoo
Code Brown in full effect, y’all.
"Fair and Balanced" Dave
For a conservative to wail on Bush, they’d have to acknowledge his existence first. Bush has been pushed out of the collective wingnut memory faster than a Soviet apparatchik after one of Stalin’s purges. For them, the past two decades never happened and the Republican Presidential candidates are falling over themselves trying to prove they’re Ronald Reagan reincarnated.
You ain’t kidding. Conservatives have been trying to ditch Bush for a while now, in vain hopes of saving the brand. Look on any discussion board where people of all stripes come together and you’ll see it–conservatives want Bush gone as badly as we do, not because they disagree with him so much as they see him as dead weight and they’re afraid they’ll be in the political wilderness for the next 30 years as a result.
I think a nice “joint session” in congress would do the whole nation a world of good.
My dad is 72 and thinks Bush is the biggest clown to ever sit in the oval office. I guess you can chalk him up to the other 2%.
Because the majority of Democrats are against FISA (see the House, majority of Dem. Senators), and all the Republicans (except for a handful) are all for zee Boosh and FISA and all the other idiotic policies that strip away our rights.
Because its a 2 party system and its clear which party is worse. Which doesn’t mean the other party is perfect, or that it’s seanate leader is constantly outmanuvered.
I think the general sense is to call the Democratic leadership cowards because they are not really going to try to sustain the filibuster, let alone succeed.
My granddad passed away in 2004, and some of our last political conversations concerned how angry he was at Bush lying us into war. Put him in the 2%, too.
Greenwald’s updated the post to say that Specter is joining the filibuster.
Stop halfway through a speech on how the incoming Democratic Administration must at least start taking the threat of Islamofascism seriously, pause, take out his earpiece, lean on the podium, smirk, and say:
“I really fucked this up, didn’t I?”
That’ll never happen. Do I win a pony?
Andrew J. Lazarus
Hey, John, you declared defeat too early. Looks like Great Orange Satan’s surge may be working.
Josh Marshall says the Dems won the filly fight, only to lose on Reid’s amendment. Interesting.
Well, the Senate has acted. Cloture on the bad bill failed (Yeah!). Cloture on the 30 day extension also failed, because of Republican obstruction. The President will doubtless spin this as the Democrats endangering national security; of course, the truth his it is him and his buddies who will not permit passage of a reasonable bill.
My Dad is 76, is a former CFO for Fortune 500 company in the Chemicals business (“No, really, the fish EAT the pollution – they like it!” I was told over the dinner table), and voted for Goldwater, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush, Dole, and Bush (in 2000).
For 2004 he raised over $50,0000 for Kerry from his friends, and the last time I checked with him on it he was raising money for Richardson. Abu Gharaib was the tipping point, as it offended his personal sense of honor, for which there will never be forgiveness.
After 50 years of contentious debates my liberal mother is a very happy lady. She is very good at not rubbing it in.
My dad’s in his 70s, lifelong Republican, and even though he’ll likely stick with the party this fall, the wind is definitely out of his sails. Still, he likes Edwards and Obama both quite a lot and wouldn’t mind seeing either in office. (He’s not a fan of Hillary — neither am I, but for different reasons.) Quite a new position for a lifelong conservative Republican.
I guess in one way, Bush truly was a uniter.
“The President will doubtless spin this as the Democrats endangering national security; of course, the truth his it is him and his buddies who will not permit passage of a reasonable bill.”
Actually, the truth is that all that will expire are Bush’s manky addenda to FISA. FISA itself will still be in effect, with the government able to get wiretaps, including prior to getting a warrant as long as that case is made to a judge within mumble hours or days (I forget).
I believe you used the phrase ‘pre-disenchanted’ when you announced the switch.
One of the problem is is that the margin in razor thin, the republicans are 100% united and the democrats always seem to have 20% who are bush dog democrats on any issue. as a result the repubs still control the action and its a question weather dems can even sustain a filibuster.
oh and of course the harry reid is a bush dog dem on this issue. money really does work magic. and our system is royally f–ked. thats the core problem.
They’re in Ohio