Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

There’s always a light at the end of the frog.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

Narcissists are always shocked to discover other people have agency.

I’m more Christian than these people and I’m an atheist.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires Republicans to act in good faith.

Someone should tell Republicans that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, or possibly the first.

We need to vote them all out and restore sane Democratic government.

In my day, never was longer.

No one could have predicted…

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

Republicans in disarray!

Hey Washington Post, “Democracy Dies in Darkness” is supposed to be a warning, not a mission statement.

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

Biden: Oh no. We’ve upset Big Pharma again.

Somebody needs to explain to DeSantis that nobody needs to do anything to make him look bad.

Republicans got rid McCarthy. Democrats chose not to save him.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

It’s a doggy dog world.

Consistently wrong since 2002

You’re just a puppy masquerading as an old coot.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

Let there be snark.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2008 / Lack of Self-Awareness Alert, aka Great Moments in Movement Conservatism

Lack of Self-Awareness Alert, aka Great Moments in Movement Conservatism

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Patrick Ruffini:

Conservatives at CPAC care mostly about one thing: getting the policy right. Saying the right words is of paramount importance. And what you say today is more important than what you said yesterday (provided you didn’t make a sport of poking conservatives in the eye). And so while we all got a chuckle out of “Flip Romney,” CPAC rewards the candidate whose words (today at least) most closely match the clearly defined worldview of its audience. Much the same is true of the predominantly economic and national security conservatives in the blogosphere and on talk radio.

Just say the right words, and us CPAC fools will take off our panties.

Tax cuts – “MOAN.”
McCain-Feingold- “OH, BABY.”
End Illegal Immigration- “DO ME BABY!!!”
The Democrats want to surrender- “OH MY, YOU ARE SO BIG!”

Will these people ever stop embarrassing themselves?

Reader Interactions

178Comments

  4. 4.

    pharniel

    No.
    SATSQ

    the main reason is because they want to go from one abusive relationship to another.

    they hunger for it. it’s distrubing.

  5. 5.

    Punchy

    The Democrats want to surrender- “OH MY, YOU ARE SO BIG!”

    As a heterosexual man, I don’t forsee using this line. Especially since I suck at blocking the slap.

  6. 6.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    Tax cuts – “MOAN.”
    McCain-Feingold- “OH, BABY.”
    End Illegal Immigration- “DO ME BABY”
    The Democrats want to surrender- “OH MY, YOU ARE SO BIG!”

    Strict constructionist judges – ” I’M CUMMMIIIINNG!”

  7. 7.

    demkat620

    Tax cuts – “MOAN.”
    McCain-Feingold- “OH, BABY.”
    End Illegal Immigration- “DO ME BABY”
    The Democrats want to surrender- “OH MY, YOU ARE SO BIG!”

    Wow, is this Balloon-Juice or Youporn?

  8. 8.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    Will these people ever stop embarrassing themselves?

    Will a 1-year-old realize he’s shitting in his own pants and stop?

    Thankfully, this is actually entertaining, so I hope they don’t manage to figure this out.

    Come on, admit it: when you see a retarded kid dance, you laugh at him and then feel bad later, right? Same thing.

  9. 9.

    Jay B.

    Conservatives at CPAC care mostly about one thing: getting the policy right.

    No, you’re not. The past 8 years have seen nothing but failed policies, many from a distinctly ‘conservative’ perspective and yet — FOUR MORE YEARS! FOUR MORE YEARS! Assholes.

    Saying the right words is of paramount importance. This is true. Conservatives can only handle rhetoric. Governing is far too arduous and thinking is plainly discouraged.

    And what you say today is more important than what you said yesterday What you do, of course, is wholly irrelevant.

    And so while we all got a chuckle out of “Flip Romney,” CPAC rewards the candidate whose words (today at least) most closely match the clearly defined worldview of its audience. And McCain’s still not crazy enough for us! Give us the puddle-deep flip flopper who promised to Double Gitmo.

    These people are awesome.

  11. 11.

    libarbarian

    Romney is angling for 2012 or 2016 at the latest. I guarantee you that he extracted some I-O-Us from some party bigwigs in exchange for refraining from going to the mattresses.

  12. 12.

    libarbarian

    Tax cuts – “MOAN.”
    McCain-Feingold- “OH, BABY.”
    End Illegal Immigration- “DO ME BABY”
    The Democrats want to surrender- “OH MY, YOU ARE SO BIG!”

    Strict constructionist judges – ” I’M CUMMMIIIINNG!”

    Anonymous Gay Sex in Men’s Rooms – “NEVER STOP FUCKING ME!!!!!!”

  13. 13.

    demimondian

    Rom is going for 2012. I’m betting that the party deserts McC in 2012, and plans to runs Rom next time out.

    Of course, they’re assuming that Hucksterbee doesn’t run again. I think they’re fools if they ignore him; he’s their own natural child, come back to the fold.

  15. 15.

    libarbarian

    This reminds me of “The Hebrew Hammer” talking dirty to his nice jewish girlfriend: “I want you to tell me where to go, what to do, and how to live my fucking life!“.

  16. 16.

    myiq2xu

    Will these people ever stop embarrassing themselves?

    During the Summer and Fall of 2006, with an election coming up and things like the war in Iraq, global warming, the deficit and a host of other issues on people’s minds, I recall several GOP politicians and talking heads say with the utmost sincerity that “Gay marriage is the most important issue facing our country.”

    So to answer your question John, no, not in this lifetime.

  17. 17.

    RSA

    Much later: “He promised to call me but never did. Maybe he lost my number. . .”

    At least, that’s what we could expect with any of the Republican candidates that have been in the running in this election.

  19. 19.

    myiq2xu

    At least, that’s what we could expect with any of the Republican candidates that have been in the running in this election.

    Are they even using their real names?

  20. 20.

    Dug Jay

    This thread confirms a portion of what he said:

    “…and over at Balloon Juice you’ve got a site run by a couple of poofs and a crazy ass goof…”

  21. 21.

    Dennis - SGMM

    Romney is angling for 2012 or 2016 at the latest.

    When the poor sod will have to run for the Republican nomination against the recently-retired General David Petraeus who for their own reasons, will have been declared the Victor in Iraq by both parties.

  22. 22.

    Jay

    Will these people ever stop embarrassing themselves?

    God, I hope not. This is going to be fun to watch.

  23. 23.

    zuzu

    ThymeZone Says:

    Will these people ever stop embarrassing themselves?

    No.

    The thing is, they don’t know how to be embarrassed. Which yeah, makes for some laughs.

  25. 25.

    zzyzx

    Man, Obama is having a rally today in Seattle at Key Arena. The venue is completely full and thousands of people couldn’t get in. I thought about going to this, but when I heard that the line wrapped halfway around Seattle Center and back to EMP, I’m glad I blew it off.

  26. 26.

    myiq2xu

    When the poor sod will have to run for the Republican nomination against the recently-retired General David Petraeus who for their own reasons, will have been declared the Victor in Iraq by both parties.

    I expect the GOP to have an establishment candidate in 2012.

    One big problem for them this year is G-Dub. How can you be the establishment candidate while simultaneously running away from the guy who represents the GOP?

    By 2012 they will have someone who isn’t tarred with the Bush brush, but all three wings will agree to.

    If the Democrats win this year and look poised for reelection, they’ll save their prize candidate for 2016.

    Watch for some virtual unknown to be pushed up through the ranks into a safe governorship or Senate seat.

    George Allen was supposed to be that guy this year, but he stepped in macaca.

  27. 27.

    Jen

    This is a good point. I expect the announcement any day now.

    I am so jealous of Seattle. Our primary is in May, and I have nary but the “Yes We Can Song” to pretend that I am there. *sigh*.

    I think I’m a fanboi.
    Fangyrl.
    Whatevs.

  31. 31.

    Lilu

    Of course, they’re assuming that Hucksterbee doesn’t run again. I think they’re fools if they ignore him; he’s their own natural child, come back to the fold.

  32. 32.

    Jen

    For some reason, at work, a lot of video players completely screw up the picture. The rally is like that now. It is a migraine-inducing teal, hot pink, and orange disaster. I can’t even tell who it is. It might be Michelle, but she’s teal, so it might be Hillary for all I know. It’s one of those things I haven’t brought to the attention of the IT department since I have exactly zero work-related need for video.

    Are there any tech geeks on who know what the dealio is? I *love* tech geeks.

  34. 34.

    David Hunt

    Perhaps a different kind of juice.

    And a different kind of balloon too.

    Nope. Republicans no those things are the work of the Devil. And “bareback” evokes all sorts of cowboy imagry.

    Okay, I’m gonna stop while I’m behind.

  36. 36.

    Jen

    The commercial at the beginning comes through just fine, natch, and the problems start when I switch to streaming.

  37. 37.

    Face

    David Hunt Says:

    Perhaps a different kind of juice.
    And a different kind of balloon too.

    Nope. Republicans no those things are the work of the Devil. And “bareback” evokes all sorts of cowboy imagry.

    Okay, I’m gonna stop while I’m behind.

    Using a false name now, Mike?

  38. 38.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    For some reason, at work, a lot of video players completely screw up the picture. The rally is like that now. It is a migraine-inducing teal, hot pink, and orange disaster. I can’t even tell who it is. It might be Michelle, but she’s teal, so it might be Hillary for all I know. It’s one of those things I haven’t brought to the attention of the IT department since I have exactly zero work-related need for video.

    Are there any tech geeks on who know what the dealio is? I love tech geeks.

    I’m a tech geek.

    I know exactly what’s wrong with your video player.

    It’s operator is tripping on acid, tasting colors, smelling pony tears, etc.

    Seriously: Need to know what kind of monitor you’re speaking about before I could even hint. Old fat and heavy TV, projection, Hi Def, LCD?

  39. 39.

    Neal

    Man, Obama is having a rally today in Seattle at Key Arena. The venue is completely full and thousands of people couldn’t get in. I thought about going to this, but when I heard that the line wrapped halfway around Seattle Center and back to EMP, I’m glad I blew it off.

    I saw him speak here in Tampa a year or so ago. Before the Florida DNC ban. A place called the Cuban Club in Ybor. Open air type place, couldn’t have been more than a couple hundred people. He gave his “turn the page” stump speech.
    Glad I got to see him then. That crowd must be murder.

  41. 41.

    Jen

    Seriously: Need to know what kind of monitor you’re speaking about before I could even hint. Old fat and heavy TV, projection, Hi Def, LCD?

    Ummmm, it’s a Dell. It says “Dell” at the bottom. It’s probably not more than a couple of years old. It’s nice and big and flat.

  42. 42.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    streaming

    Ahh, software.

    You might be using an old version of flash which has a bug in it. I think CNN uses flash, dunnit?

    Upgrade your flash to the latest version.

    If that doesn’t work, it’s a codec issue and you’re just better off giving up.

  45. 45.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    If that doesn’t work, it’s a codec issue and you’re just better off giving up.

    Also, it’s possible likely that CNN is just a big basket of FAIL today.

  47. 47.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    According to the back, it was made in 2005. In Mexico.

    OK, I should scale this back a bit.

    Assuming you’re using Windows (quite likely), go here, click the “download” button. Pretty much everything else should be automatic. You’ll have to close and re-open the browser when you’re done.

  48. 48.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    click the “download” button

    /facepalm

    it’s says “Install Now”, actually.

    I’m my own big basket of FAIL.

  49. 49.

    Jen

    Yeah, I have that problem all over the intertubes though. I am pretty sure I’ve had it with non-streaming videos, too, although I haven’t had a problem with youtube before.

    I’d just like to say, if Obama can charm TZ, than Obama has some freakin’ charm.

  50. 50.

    Jen

    OK, I should scale this back a bit.

    I know, I know, I have the technology skillz of Ted Stevens. My dad taught me BASIC on our Tandy in kindergarten, but it’s all been downhill from there. I’m still amazed that my husband magicked the “yes we can” video onto my iPod for me.

  52. 52.

    ThymeZone

    if Obama can charm TZ, than Obama has some freakin’ charm.

    True enough. Been a long time since I got excited about a politician.

    In daily life, of course, a ham sandwich is all you need to get me to do just about anything. I will work for food.

  53. 53.

    Jen

    Hm. That didn’t work. Oh well. I can watch it later at home. With wine, natch, since I’m an Obama girl. I have something called Goats Do Roam.

  54. 54.

    David Hunt

    Using a false name now, Mike?

    Nope, I’m not Mike. I’m just a fairly regular reader de-lurking to make a snide comment about the CPACer views on birth-control, sexual relations, and whatever lurid innuendo I could come up with in a thirty second timeframe. I post under my own name, but I’m not that Colonel Dave Hunt who’s a Pentagon spokesman. I’m an accountant in Texas.

  55. 55.

    myiq2xu

    Oh shitski! CPAC must be lots of fun.

    From Sadly No:

    His name is Tony, and he’s a stockbroker.

    Why is Tony so mad?

    “That fuck-stick Romney dropped out. That just leaves us with McCain.”

    He doesn’t have any affinity for the Senator, then?

    “He’s a weak sister. He won’t have the guts to invade Iran.”
    What
    Iran must be ripe for invasion. It seems like we’ve been waiting forever. But what of Iraq?

    “Iraq is over. Iraq is somebody else’s problem now.”

    The problem of the Iraqis, I would guess.

    “Whatever. It doesn’t matter. Iran is the issue. Iran has the Islamic bomb.”

    A bomb that follows a religious ideology is a terrifying concept indeed; but what about Pakistan?

    “Pakistan is our ally. But even if they weren’t, Iran is the destination.”

    Not according to my travel agent. But what makes you say that?

    “Iran is where the money is.”

    What money?

    “Look, Iraq has been good to us. Everybody knows that. Construction, defense, telecoms, it’s a whole new market.”

    I’m guessing he’s not an Obamacan

  56. 56.

    Dug Jay

    Joel Stein writing in the LA Times appears to have Obama’s number:

    You [Obama fans] are embarrassing yourselves. With your “Yes We Can” music video, your “Fired Up, Ready to Go” song, your endless chatter about how he’s the first one to inspire you, to make you really feel something — it’s as if you’re tacking photos of Barack Obama to your locker, secretly slipping him little notes that read, “Do you like me? Check yes or no.” Some of you even cry at his speeches…..

    What the Cult of Obama doesn’t realize is that he’s a politician. Not a brave one taking risky positions like Ron Paul or Dennis Kucinich, but a mainstream one. He has not been firing up the Senate with stirring Cross-of-Gold-type speeches to end the war. He’s a politician so soft and safe, Oprah likes him. There’s talk about his charisma and good looks, but I know a nerd when I see one. The dude is Urkel with a better tailor.

  57. 57.

    Jen

    Okay, this is probably a dumb question about the Sadly, No! infiltration. He’s supposed to be from the Milk Solids Council, right, a lobbyist? Got the logo up and all? Which he has on the Sadly, No! website. So is the entire CPAC unaware that someone from a pretty big snarky-ass lefty blog infiltrated their conference? Is the bubble that small?

  59. 59.

    Grand Moff Texan

    Conservatives at CPAC care mostly about one thing: getting the policy right.

    Well that’s thirty-plus year of continual upfuck.

    Has it ever occurred to you people that you just plain suck?
    .

  60. 60.

    Dennis - SGMM

    So Doug, if Obama is Urkel with a better tailor then what is Hillary?

    Bill Clinton in a pants suit.

  61. 61.

    ThymeZone

    Joel Stein writing in the LA Times

    Great choice for salient political comment, Dug, really.
    From his own website:

    After teaching a class in humor writing at Princeton, he moved to L.A. at the beginning of 2005 to write a column for the Los Angeles Times and work as a sitcom writer. In addition to working for the failed show Crumbs, he has already had two failed pilots at ABC and hopes to expand into failed pilots at other networks.

    We’ll wait for his book to come out. I assume that it will be called “Self Promotion for Dummies.”

    Right up your alley.

  62. 62.

    LarryB

    Caidence (fmr. Chris) Says:
    Come on, admit it: when you see a retarded kid dance, you laugh at him and then feel bad later, right? Same thing.

    Yep. I now hate myself.

  63. 63.

    Jen

    This is Joel’s next paragraph:

    All of this is clear to me, and yet I have fallen victim. I was at an Obama rally in Las Vegas last month, hanging at the rope line afterward in the cold night desert air, just to see him up close, to make sure he was real. I’d never heard a politician talk so bluntly, calling U.S. immigration policy “scapegoating” and “demagoguery.” I’d never had even a history teacher argue that our nation’s history is a series of brave people changing others’ minds when things were on the verge of collapse. I want the man to hope all over me.

    He is on that pony. I think. I’m not sure what “hope all over me” means, but it doesn’t really sound like he’s on top.

  64. 64.

    Ryan S.

    hen tomorrow I’ll figure out how this caucus thing works.

    I went to my first caucus to get my Magic Pony on Tuesday. It was rather hilarious 750 people turned out(prolly many more people saw the insane line and turned around) and the building could only hold 200 people max. They were reduced to designating one exit for Clinton and one exit for Obama and counting people as they streamed out the door. Then they asked every one to stay in who wanted to elect the delegates( I stayed). At least thats how it went here in Kansas.

  65. 65.

    ThymeZone

    The last time I rode a pony, the thing threw me and dragged me and damn near killed me. I was unconscious for quite a while and needed a lot of stitches in my head. I was seven at the time. Thanks to the accident, I missed my chance to ride in the rodeo parade.

    That’s a true story. So you’d think, I wouldn’t be a fan of pony rides. We-hell, times change. Put me on the pony. I really, really like this guy.

  67. 67.

    Zifnab

    Conservatives at CPAC care mostly about one thing: getting the policy right.

    Well that’s thirty-plus year of continual upfuck.

    Has it ever occurred to you people that you just plain suck?

    Perhaps we’re working under different definitions of “right”.

  68. 68.

    demimondian

    My eldest caught a bus up from the University of Puget Sound to attend the Obama rally, and got a SEAT ON THE ARENA FLOOR. (Lucky child.)

    Those of you from the western part of Washington State will be thinking to yourselves…wait, Friday, University of Puget Sound…wasn’t some presidential candidate going to speak there, too? Yes — but it wasn’t the Magical Unity Pony.

  70. 70.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    Dug “Caidence” Jay, link to the whole thing, dummkopf. It’s good.

    WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WTF?

    Jen! I’m over here! The asshole suit in Midtown! Not the 19 year old troll that just got out of his Friday GED courses!

    What the hell?

  72. 72.

    Grumpy Code Monkey

    Some telling phrases from that column:

    What Romney didn’t account for is that it would take more than being a CPAC, or Agenda Conservative to win the nomination. Country Music Conservatives — and frankly, most voters outside the Beltway swamp — don’t listen to your words; they listen to your tone of voice as you’re delivering those words. Do you get angry when you should? What’s your sense of humor like? For social conservatives, are you grounded in faith? And ultimately, are you the real deal?

    This has nothing to do with being right on issues. It has everything to do with being authentic.

    At a minimum, this challenges us to think differently about the movement, to junk the leader/follower model for a networked model that elevates real grassroots outside the Beltway over “grasstops” and to find new ways of bringing low-information conservative voters into the fold.

    Emphasis mine.

    Nice backhanded slap at a good chunk of your base there, Bubba. Those ignorant, mouth-breathing rednecks simply didn’t understand or care about the issues like us smart people, so they voted for That Guy, because he’s authentic, instead of Our Guy, who even we know was a fraud.

    I love the lesson learned; since we obviously can’t trust these morons to do the right thing, we have to make sure we feed them the right propaganda from the beginning.

  74. 74.

    Jake

    You forgot:
    “They Want 2 Kill Us”

    “OMG, get my wet suit!”

    No wonder Jeff “The Cannon” Gannon liked to hang around the White House. He probably made a fortune* dominating the BushLackeys.

    j

    *Note how I tastefully avoided words like “Wad” or “Load.” You’re welcome.

  75. 75.

    myiq2xu

    No wonder Jeff “The Cannon” Gannon liked to hang around the White House.

    I think “Dick Hunter” is the perfect name for a gay porn star.

  76. 76.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    Oh my, here’s a fun site for Caidence and other tin-foil hat types.

    /scratches head

    lolwut? Who exactly do you think I am?

    Actually, didn’t I verbally bash you over the head once because I thought you were going conspiracy theorist on me? Why would I stick my nose into the ramblings of paranoid junkies.

    Better yet, what makes you think I’m paranoid? I’m the one on The Pony and you’re the one who won’t get on…

  77. 77.

    Z

    I love the lesson learned; since we obviously can’t trust these morons to do the right thing, we have to make sure we feed them the right propaganda from the beginning.

    No kidding! I mean we all knew that they were a bunch of elitists b*stards who were just using the base, but you can’t usually find one who will admit it so baldly and with such obvious condescension. I want these unethical, patronizing f*cks out of power for the rest of their natural lives.

  78. 78.

    myiq2xu

    I’m the one on The Pony and you’re the one who won’t get on…

    I made my choice last Tuesday and voted for the winner. I don’t have to choose again until November at which time I will be voting for the Democrat.

    Y’all residents of the remaining states and territories can fight amongst yourselves until the convention.

  79. 79.

    Svensker

    Apparently, those riotously funny folks at CPAC were wearing t-shirts proclaiming them members of the CIA Waterboarding Team. How f**king hilarious is that? I mean, torture! That just knocks me out! Ha ha ha ha ha.

    I assume they’ll be calling for a pardon and an apology for those poor Japanese guys we convicted for waterboarding after WWII. Ya think?

  80. 80.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    I made my choice last Tuesday and voted for the winner.

    Winner? 840’s vs. 830’s… You mean — you did — you…??

    !!

    umm.. it’s best to leave sleeping myiq’s lie, so I’m going to quietly back away from your implications.

  81. 81.

    Digital Amish

    I have to admit to sometimes being a little uneasy with all the Obamamania. Cult of personality sets off a few alarms. Seen a little too much of it these last few years.

    For the record I caucus on the Olympic Penninsula tomorrow for Obama.

  82. 82.

    myiq2xu

    I assume they’ll be calling for a pardon and an apology for those poor Japanese guys we convicted for waterboarding after WWII. Ya think?

    According to our new Attorney General, the “Nuremburg Defense” is now official U.S. policy.

  83. 83.

    ThymeZone

    First, glad to see Shuster get dinged for the pimp remark. That was unnecessary. Chelsea Clinton is a classy kid, doesn’t deserve that kind of crap.

    Second, why on earth is CNN sucking up to Colin Fucking Powell, architect of the UN WMD Lie-A-Rama, to get his “endorsement” in the primary? Who gives a rat’s ass what that weasel thinks about a candidate?

  84. 84.

    Zifnab

    According to our new Attorney General, the “Nuremburg Defense” is now official U.S. policy.

    We need less “Nuremburg Defense” and more “Nuremburg Trials” if you ask me.

  85. 85.

    myiq2xu

    Who gives a rat’s ass what that weasel thinks about a candidate?

    I used to have a lot of respect for that man until he used his credibility to sell an unnecessary war.

    Bushco used him, but he was a willing tool.

  86. 86.

    Zifnab

    First, glad to see Shuster get dinged for the pimp remark. That was unnecessary. Chelsea Clinton is a classy kid, doesn’t deserve that kind of crap.

    Dude. Whatever. Shuster spoke his mind. Might have been a stupid thought, but when you’ve got MSNBC Posterboy Chris Matthews alternating between ejaculate and projectile vomit on air, the bar has been set so damn low that Shuster’s remark shouldn’t have even pinged the radar. Talk about your divergent standards. Any other commenter could have gone into a graphic verbal depiction of Chelsea getting anally raped by her mother and the network wouldn’t have batted an eye. This is MSNBC’s way of putting Shuster in his place and has absolutely nothing to do with what he said.

    Second, why on earth is CNN sucking up to Colin Fucking Powell, architect of the UN WMD Lie-A-Rama, to get his “endorsement” in the primary? Who gives a rat’s ass what that weasel thinks about a candidate?

    Dude. If you have to ask this question, you must have missed the interview with Tom DeLay. It’s the Cable TV Washed Up Crooked Politician Hit Parade down there.

  87. 87.

    Dennis - SGMM

    Second, why on earth is CNN sucking up to Colin Fucking Powell, architect of the UN WMD Lie-A-Rama, to get his “endorsement” in the primary? Who gives a rat’s ass what that weasel thinks about a candidate?

    Because he’s going to be John McCain’s VP?

    On another note’ Newt Gingrich is now officially insane.
    He’s on an MSNBC segment about McCain’s VP choices.
    His suggestion?
    A McCain-Lieberman unity ticket.

  88. 88.

    John S.

    First, glad to see Shuster get dinged for the pimp remark. That was unnecessary.

    Sure.

    But equally unnecessary are the histrionics over the matter by Clinton and her supporters. I mean, Shuster made a stupid remark, but overall he was one of the better talking heads on that network. So now they’ve suspended him and we’re left with Chris Matthews and Tucker Carlson? Ya, that makes a lot of sense.

    Sorry, but as someone said over on another thread, I just can’t get my outrage-meter cranked up to eleven over this. Maybe about a six, but that’s it.

  89. 89.

    John S.

    Talk about your divergent standards.

    Heh, you wanna see some crazy shit?

    Check out the thread on the subject over at the Carpetbagger.

  90. 90.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    Heh, you wanna see some crazy shit?

    Check out the thread on the subject over at the Carpetbagger.

    from Article:

    The Clinton campaign is not only understandably livid, it’s practically going to war with MSNBC.

    Shorter Clinton: I’m being victimized! Help! Help! Attack the evil husband! Save my baby! Give me money for clothes and food and the keys the Oval Office!

    damn it, MSNBC gave them exactly what they wanted.

  91. 91.

    ThymeZone

    So, I am listening in the background here to the Pearl Fishers Duet (Au Fond Du Temple Saint), (Bjoerling-Merrill) and …. just about every time I hear it, I burst into tears.

    Am I gay?

  92. 92.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    According to our new Attorney General, the “Nuremburg Defense” is now official U.S. policy.

    Yeah, but did you see the McConnell follow-up?

    The “McConnell Defense” is “I was just following U.S. Republican Talking Points”. Anything else is entirely condemned under international law and the Geneva Conventions.

  93. 93.

    Krista

    With wine, natch, since I’m an Obama girl. I have something called Goats Do Roam.

    /clinks glass with Jen.

    Cheers!

    Maybe if I drink enough wine, the imagery of all of those right-wingers making orgasmic faces will be blotted from my brain.

  94. 94.

    ThymeZone

    Okay maybe you need the lyric:

    Oh oui, jurons de rester amis!
    Oui, c’est elle! C’est la déesse!
    En ce jour qui vient nous unir,
    Et fidèle à ma promesse,
    Comme un frère je veux te chérir!
    C’est elle, c’est la déesse
    Qui vient en ce jour nous unir!
    Oui, partageons le même sort,
    Soyons unis jusqu’à la mort!

  95. 95.

    myiq2xu

    Talk about your divergent standards.

    I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that after the “Tweety Effect” kerfluffle that MSNBC told all their talking heads to eliminate sexist/racist language.

    They could have suspended Shuster to send a message to the others that they meant it.

    It doesn’t matter that what Shuster said wasn’t as bad as other things that have been said in the past, it’s that the MSNBC guys keep saying this kind of stuff and it needs to stop.

    I’ve got a daughter that’s 21 and I would be offended by that comment, especially if I had been trying to protect her from the same shit the Clintons had been getting for the last 16 years.

    Just because Chelsea is helping her mom doesn’t make her a legitimate target for the slime machine.

  96. 96.

    ThymeZone

    As much as it pains me to say so, I agree with myiq, he is exactly right. People don’t have to put up with this shit from these assholes on tv.

    Does agreeing with myiq make me gay (especially in light of the Pearl Fishers thing?)

  97. 97.

    myiq2xu

    Heh, you wanna see some crazy shit?

    Check out the thread on the subject over at the Carpetbagger.

    Do you mean this?:

    On February 8th, 2008 at 5:23 pm, Ashamed Dem said:
    I’m shocked that most of the posters here who don’t think this is a “big deal’or (my personal favorite) “get a grip” appear to be men.

    Keep it up.

    Keep spouting your dumbass misogyny, consciously or unconsciously.

    You create more support for Hillary when you do.

    And John S.

    It is better to be remain silent and be thought a dumbass, than CONTINUALLY posting drivel, and removing all doubt that you’re a dumbass.

    If you equate a bright, articulate, college educated woman, campaigning for her mother to be the first woman President, to a car, I feel sorry for the women in your life.

    Or this?:

    On February 8th, 2008 at 5:27 pm, John S. said:
    You know, all of you Hillary fans have forgotten one very important angle to this incident which is also worthy of histrionics (sorry, I realized this is a sexist term) theatrics:

    In insinuating that Chelsea is “pimping” for her mother, Shuster inadvertently refers to Hillary as a ‘pimp’. And since almost all pimps are men, Shuster is blatantly trying to masculinize Hillary! And by extension, this feeds into the meme that Hillary is an emasculating figure…because that is how she acheives her masculinity – through castration!

    That settles it. I need to vote for Hillary to defend her womanhood. That’s what is important in this election – preserving gender identities. Otherwise, next thing you know we’ll be a nation full of sex-industry hermaphrodites…

    And yes, I am completely full of shit.

    You said it.

  98. 98.

    cd6

    I’m also going to pop my caucus cherry in Seattle tomorrow. Should be very exciting.

    Need to find out where the hell it is though.

  101. 101.

    Dennis - SGMM

    Just because Chelsea is helping her mom doesn’t make her a legitimate target for the slime machine.

    Hold your horses. Shuster’s choice of words was idiotic, no two ways about it. They were pejorative and he deserves the suspension.

    But, “helping your mom” is a bit euphemistic. Helping your mom is picking up a few things at the grocery store. To campaign for your mom is to expose yourself to all of the shit that flies in politics. If Jenna and not-Jenna Bush were to hit the campaign trail for McCain then I would heartily endorse their being on the receiving end of the same shitstorm.

  102. 102.

    Dug Jay

    Shuster spoke his mind. Might have been a stupid thought, but when you’ve got MSNBC Posterboy Chris Matthews alternating between ejaculate and projectile vomit on air, the bar has been set so damn low that Shuster’s remark shouldn’t have even pinged the radar. Talk about your divergent standards. Any other commenter could have gone into a graphic verbal depiction of Chelsea getting anally raped by her mother and the network wouldn’t have batted an eye. This is MSNBC’s way of putting Shuster in his place and has absolutely nothing to do with what he said.

    A BJ’er gone fucking nutzoid.

  103. 103.

    ThymeZone

    Helping your mom is picking up a few things at the grocery store. To campaign for your mom is to expose yourself to all of the shit that flies in politics. If Jenna and not-Jenna Bush were to hit the campaign trail for McCain then I would heartily endorse their being on the receiving end of the same shitstorm.

    Um, no. There are limits to things, and when something is outside the limits, then somebody needs to move them back.

    Shuster knows he fucked up, and that’s why he apologized first thing today, and that’s why he is getting suspended.

    As pundits go, he’s pretty good most of the time, but these guys need to know where the boundaries are. There also need to be boundaries on the suckup side of the scale. Whenever Tweety gushes over a female guest, or Russert smokes the bone of some important person, they ought to get the same treatment. They have jobs to do, it is not out of bounds to hold them accountable for how they do them.

  104. 104.

    ThymeZone

    the bar has been set so damn low that Shuster’s remark shouldn’t have even pinged the radar

    AKA the ‘everybody does it’ defense.

    Not unlike the “all the presidents start wars without a declaration of war now” rationale for Korea, Vietnam and Iraq, eh?

    No, sorry, a history of condonation is not exculpatory. The fact is, it took somebody with some clout and a willingness to get in NBC’s face to get them to pay attention to this, and … good. Glad to see it.

  105. 105.

    John Cole

    I actually saw that comment live, and thought nothing of it. I didn’t for one minute think he meant she was actually a hooker, and pimping has sort of become colloquialized. Compared to a lot of the bilge that goes unnoticed, the Shuster remark seems to be a whole lot of nothing. Not to mention, he has already apologized.

    I think the Clintons are making a big deal out of this to distract from her campaign woes and to make themselves the victim again. That doesn’t mean I don’t think it was a poor choice of words and offensive, as I do. I do think they are making it a much bigger deal than it is.

    And one last thing- Shuster claiming the Clintons are “pimping” Chelsea is FAR, FAR less offensive to me that Mitt fucking Romney’s speech in which he stated he has to get out of the race or the Democrats will surrender to terrorists, and no one seems to have made a big deal out of that.

  106. 106.

    ThymeZone

    And one last thing- Shuster claiming the Clintons are “pimping” Chelsea is FAR, FAR less offensive to me that Mitt fucking Romney’s speech in which he stated he has to get out of the race or the Democrats will surrender to terrorists, and no one seems to have made a big deal out of that.

    AKA the ‘somebody else was worse’ defense.

    Nope, not buying it. There are limits, and they get set where we say they do. We don’t have to put up with crap, even if somebody else got away with worse crap.

    Romney is a politician, and his organization (the GOP) has accountability at the polls.

    Shuster is basically a glorified newsreader, like most of these people. I don’t have to settle for him talking like that. Who the fuck is he?

    PC is about inappropriate standards, it is not about getting rid of standards.

  107. 107.

    John Cole

    AKA the ‘somebody else was worse’ defense.

    You don;t get to quote the last part of my comment and ignore the middle part of my comment. You just don’t, especially when it is right fucking there. As I stated:

    That doesn’t mean I don’t think it was a poor choice of words and offensive, as I do. I do think they are making it a much bigger deal than it is.

    I think his remark was offensive, suspend him for a week, make him apologize. Move on. But acting like this is some sort of offense where he should never work in the industry again is the kind of wingnutty response I expect from the Confederate Yankee, who thinks every AP editor should be hanged by the neck until dead when someone mislabels a photo.

    He said something stupid, he apologized. Deal with it.

  108. 108.

    ThymeZone

    ignore the middle part

    Um, so the rule is, I have to comment on every word you say before I can have an opinion on any single part?

    Got it. Noted. Thanks.

    My post stands as written. Romney did make a gaffe, and it deserves scorn and ridicule. Whether he gets it or not has nothing to do with the subject at hand, at all. So why say that? Was your point that we should be bashing him too?
    Or …?

  110. 110.

    Chris Johnson

    OMG, you mean I might have a chance to vote for JUST A POLITICIAN?

    Compared to war criminals, treacherous powermad royal families, and people who are convinced ‘we’ need to be sure that we make the world understand we will torture people with FERVOR and we’ll enjoy it, and then drop more bombs?

    Sign me frickin’ up. IF ONLY politics was run by frickin’ politicians. I miss those days.

    Politics run by rockstar torturers in flightsuits with padded manly characteristics is driving me CRAZY.

  111. 111.

    John S.

    He said something stupid, he apologized. Deal with it.

    This argument seems to have little effect on people that can’t accept that.

    I’ve been trying all day, to no avail.

  112. 112.

    ThymeZone

    This argument seems to have little effect on people that can’t accept that.

    So let me see if I understand … if people talk about this, or express an opinion, they “can’t deal with it?”

    Did I misunderstand you? Or what did you mean?

  113. 113.

    ThymeZone

    Okay, let’s try this.

    Let’s make a scale called “Shuster’s Remark and Its Consequences”

    Zero is “none … do nothing, not an issue”

    Ten is “Shuster must be fired”

    Five is “Shuster apologizes and that’s it.”

    Seven is “Shuster gets a suspension.”

    Minus 5 is “Shuster should get a medal, these politicians deserve whatever they get.”

    If the scale needs further calibration, please supply it.

    Okay, NBC seems to be at 7.

    I myself am probably at about a 6.

    Other scores?

  114. 114.

    myiq2xu

    I think his remark was offensive, suspend him for a week, make him apologize. Move on. But acting like this is some sort of offense where he should never work in the industry again is the kind of wingnutty response I expect from the Confederate Yankee, who thinks every AP editor should be hanged by the neck until dead when someone mislabels a photo.

    Who said he should never work again? All I’ve heard was people say it was wrong and stuff like this need to stop.

    BTW – When someone says “I’m not defending him but it wasn’t that bad, they are defending him.

  115. 115.

    ThymeZone

    Urp, Keith O comments on it now.

    “Indefensible thing to say.”

    Keith apologizes profusely “for NBC.”

    So he is at 7 with NBC, I presume

  116. 116.

    Dennis - SGMM

    Although some may be trying to excuse Shuster’s remarks I don’t think that anyone is trying to defend them.

    The Clinton campaign has a desperate need to inoculate itself against a McCain-loving media, fed by a Republican attack machine, that will bring up everything from Monica Lewinsky to Jennifer Flowers, to Vince Foster to Paula Jones to Mena Airport,(Google it: almost as good as Black Helicopters). The good Senator opened herself up to this when she touted her eight years of White House experience. Whether or not Senator Clinton can be an effective candidate in the face of such attacks is an open question: this is a country where 40% of the population believes that Saddam had WMD’s and 30% approve of Bush’s job as president.

  117. 117.

    ThymeZone

    BTW – When someone says “I’m not defending him but it wasn’t that bad, they are defending him.

    Okay, that’s twice on one thread that I am forced to completely agree with you.

    KNOCK IT OFF DAMMIT.

  118. 118.

    ThymeZone

    Whether or not Senator Clinton can be an effective candidate in the face of such attacks is an open question: this is a country where 40% of the population believes that Saddam had WMD’s and 30% approve of Bush’s job as president.

    Agreed, but don’t we think that complaining to NBC about this pimp remark shows that she is not going to be passive in the face of the shitstorm she can expect?

    (Unlike, say, Kerry?)

  119. 119.

    myiq2xu

    Do you recall this statment John?:

    It may be unfair to vote against Hillary because of the din created by her opposition, but I would be lying if I did not admit the role that has played in my decision making. I am just tired of the fuss, the noise, the animosity- I have no doubt the right wing will manage to make Obama public enemy #1 if he wins the nomination, but at least it will be something new. Everything with the Clintons is so recycled, so old, so tawdry. Yes, Hillary, I do need a change.

    I’m sick of all the fuss, noise and animosity too. I just have a different reaction to it.

    And I damn sure don’t want to go through it all again with Obama.

    All Democrats, regardless of who you support, need to fight back against the racism, misogyny and other forms of bigotry of the GOP and the Lap Dog media.

    That includes calling John Edwards a “faggot” and the “Breck Girl,” calling Hillary a “bitch” and calling Obama the “magic negro.”

    It may seem hypersensitive but we need to push back hard every single time until it stops.

  120. 120.

    Dennis - SGMM

    Agreed, but don’t we think that complaining to NBC about this pimp remark shows that she is not going to be passive in the face of the shitstorm she can expect?

    How much of the time of nominee Clinton be spent in parrying these attacks as opposed to advancing her agenda?

    I fought the battles of the Nineties. I’m sick to death of them. Senator Clinton brings with her not only the baggage of her husband’s administration but the baggage of her own questionable votes.

    I’m a reasonably old fucker (60) and I’ve spent my life watching old fuckers fight old battles. Enough!

  121. 121.

    ThymeZone

    Senator Clinton brings with her not only the baggage of her husband’s administration but the baggage of her own questionable votes.

    None of which has anything to do with the Shuster gaffe.

    I’m a reasonably old fucker (60)

    I’m older, and I think Clinton did exactly the right thing.

  122. 122.

    Conservatively Liberal

    Will these people ever stop embarrassing themselves?

    Depends (jeez that seems like a common answer for the right lately)

    … I have something called Goats Do Roam.

    If the wine bottle label says ‘Goats Do Roam’, I would take it more like a warning than a possible name. Do they roam too close to the vineyard or the wine barrels? Do I even want to know?

    I will stick with Snakebites (Yukon Jack and a dash of Rose’s Lime). Much more antiseptic.

    Does agreeing with myiq make me gay (especially in light of the Pearl Fishers thing?)

    YES

    SATSQ – Volume MLXVII / Chapter – CXXIV / Line – XIX

    David Schuster and his comment? My OutrageOmeter is pegged at 2. What he said was simply stupid, and IMO not meant to be offensive. Overly and unnecessarily descriptive, yes. Needed to be said? No. He was asking if what Chelsea was doing was overly promoting her Mom, which is what I understood his meaning to be. He apologized and has been suspended, story over.

    I understood what he said, and what he meant. It sure was stupid of him to put it the way he did, but it was not meant in a vicious way IMO. But I hope Hillary and Bill milk the hell out of this to the point that they overdo it (like they do everything else). Hillary is the least attractive when she plays the victim, and with Bill egging her on this it will only get better.

    Question of the day:

    How come Monica Lewinsky comes to mind when I see Hillary in a blue dress and a pearl necklace? Is it just me? ;)

  123. 123.

    ThymeZone

    Does agreeing with myiq make me gay (especially in light of the Pearl Fishers thing?)

    YES

    Thank you for being honest and forthright with me.

    I have a lot to think about now.

  124. 124.

    Conservatively Liberal

    Okay, that’s twice on one thread that I am forced to completely agree with you.

    See? Say no more.

  125. 125.

    myiq2xu

    How much of the time of nominee Clinton be spent in parrying these attacks as opposed to advancing her agenda?

    I fought the battles of the Nineties. I’m sick to death of them. Senator Clinton brings with her not only the baggage of her husband’s administration but the baggage of her own questionable votes.

    I’m a reasonably old fucker (60) and I’ve spent my life watching old fuckers fight old battles. Enough!

    This isn’t about the Clintons, they just happen to be the ones involved.

    The GOP slime machine has polluted the political discourse in this country long enough.

    Democrats are routinely called traitors and cowards and nobody blinks an eye. I’m not talking about a blogger or a commenter, I’m talking about top Republicans.

    Yesterday Mitt Romney said if Obama or Hilary win the election they will surrender to terrorists, and Jon Stewart was about the only person who called him on it. The CPAC crowd cheered.

    This shit has to stop.

  126. 126.

    myiq2xu

    Thank you for being honest and forthright with me.

    I have a lot to think about now.

    Homey don’t play dat!

  128. 128.

    Dennis - SGMM

    None of which has anything to do with the Shuster gaffe.

    And everything to do with the point that I am so ineptly trying to make. The campaign that has to faint in coils over a gaffe will be ill positioned to make progress with an uninformed electorate in the face of concerted, practiced, well-honed attacks – whether they have substance or not.

    You mentioned John Kerry. It worked, didn’t it?

  129. 129.

    John S.

    Did I misunderstand you?

    Yes.

    Or what did you mean?

    Pretty much what John’s synopsis was. I think his remark was offensive, suspend him for a week, make him apologize. Move on.

    But there has been a lot of overreacting to this from people on the right – particularly Hillary supporters. And they don’t seem to take kindly to varmints that aren’t willing to grab a pitchfork and join the Shuster lynch mob.

  130. 130.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    Holy crap, I’m about to disagree with TZ? Sad, sad day.

    Um, no. There are I have set limits to things, and when something is outside the my limits, then somebody needs I and the people who agree with me will try to move them back.

    No speaking for me, good sir. As far as I’ve observed, the only correct action to an insult of any caliber is to pass on it without disqualifying it. You should never hide behind the “PC” rationale because that only represents that you have a weak spot and need to be protected.

    Broader statement: if somebody else’s words hurt you, then you either hold them in too high regard, or yourself in too high regard. Fix either.

    Pre-emptive counter-counter argument: All this now makes Chelsea a weak-spot for the woman everybody hates. Now it won’t just be “Clagina” being thrown around, but “Ho” or whatever elementary insult they come up with to call her. Chelsea’s probably better than that, but she proves it by eating it like it doesn’t bother her. Unfortunately, because she the self-concern trolls ducked it by calling “foul”, this is going to take far longer to resolve.

  131. 131.

    myiq2xu

    The campaign that has to faint in coils over a gaffe will be ill positioned to make progress with an uninformed electorate in the face of concerted, practiced, well-honed attacks – whether they have substance or not.

    How bad do the attacks have to get before they react?

    By drawing attention to the issue now, they are positioning both candidates to push back later.

    BTW – Whether against Hillary or Obama, it will always be a “gaffe” or a “joke.”

    They will never admit it was intentional and mean-spirited.

  132. 132.

    Pixie

    He said something stupid, he apologized. Deal with it.

    Actually, he didn’t want to apologize at first (Via Digby):

    On Thursday, when Clinton spokesman Phillippe Reines contacted Shuster and told him the comment was offensive, the reporter e-mailed back that he was referring to the fact that Chelsea is making calls to convention superdelegates but refusing to talk to the press. Shuster did make that point on the air — after his pimped out comment, which was not delivered as a joke.

    Reines was incredulous at the lack of an apology, but Shuster stood his ground.

    So to recap, Shuster says something stupid. He gets called on it and refuses to apologize for his behavior because who has the right to criticize such a hard hitting journalist like himself? Apparently MSNBC is getting a bit tired of the criticism being heaped on the boys of the network for their openly sexist, misogynistic, juvenile behavior because it looks like they’re trying to send a message with his suspension.

  133. 133.

    ThymeZone

    Caidance, you cant be serious. Of course I set limits, so do you, so does everybody. Nobody decides for me what my limits are, or for you.

    Nor should anyone but the Clintons decide what their limits are. In this case, I agree with them. In another case, I might not. Such is life.

    I applaud for setting a limit and acting on it. That’s how it should work. Your PC rant is just nonsense. Why should your PC opinion determine where they think their limits are?

    That’s how the fuckheads have fucked it all up. When people defer to things like your, or my, idea of PC when deciding what they will tolerate, then the fuckheads have won.

    Fuck Shuster, and good on the Clintons. If more people will stand up, the chutzpah of these paid dicks who think they can shit on us and get us to pay cable fees for the privilege of watching it will take a hit … and none too soon.

  134. 134.

    The Other Steve

    Little late, but…

    Oh shitski! CPAC must be lots of fun.

    From Sadly No:…

    “It’s a bigger country. It’s a richer country. It’s a country with a market class and a rich and developed economy. It wasn’t living under Stalinism like Iraq. Once we get our hands on those markets, we’re finally going to see a payoff for all the effort we’ve put into the wars.”

    That’s funny!

  136. 136.

    myiq2xu

    But there has been a lot of overreacting to this from people on the right – particularly Hillary supporters. And they don’t seem to take kindly to varmints that aren’t willing to grab a pitchfork and join the Shuster lynch mob.

    Really?

    Comments like:

    On February 8th, 2008 at 3:55 pm, ml johnston said:
    How come it is ok for the Clinton’s to disparage others but are incensed when they are disparaged.? If the Clintons use their daughter for campaignng then that places her in jeopardy for media / public quips. David Schuster apologised. The Clintons are just using this for more media hype to gain free air time. This family has been through worse with the Lincoln Bedroom , Monica Lewinsky, etc. The Clintons are viscious politicians and should expect viscious reponses while campaigning. What the Clintons put out they will receive 10,000 fold.

    and:

    On February 8th, 2008 at 4:09 pm, Sheridan said:
    As someone said on DKos, indignation fatigue has set in for me. Looks like the Clintons have found a way to rev up their support – claim discrimination so people will feel sorry for Hillary because of the way those mean men are treating her daughter. I could see it with Chris Matthews, but I don’t see it here. I see it as more of a slip of the tongue.

    or this:

    On February 8th, 2008 at 5:09 pm, Lu said:
    She’s playing to the gallery here. This whole thing should be worth a nice swing in Clinton’s favor in tomorrow’s contests. Sigh, it’s not that they’re wrong because he absolutely should not have said it, but they do seem to be playing the victim card an awful lot and it seems, to me, to be a pretty crappy way of winning the nomination.

    One commenter at Carpetbagger said:

    It isn’t really that big of a deal. Hillary just made herself look REALLY old by protesting so much over this, because most people under the age of 35 aren’t going to get so vexed over this use of terminology.

    I’m over 35, and I am vexed. If people under 35 thinks it’s no big deal, then they need to grow up.

  137. 137.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    Nor should anyone but the Clintons decide what their limits are. In this case, I agree with them. In another case, I might not. Such is life.

    I applaud for setting a limit and acting on it. That’s how it should work. Your PC rant is just nonsense. Why should your PC opinion determine where they think their limits are?

    This is where our disagreement lies. In simpler situations, you can regulate a set of rules. “Every player gets $500. If you land on Free Parking, you get all the takings from Income Tax.” etc.

    Unfortunately this new media with the internet and easy cable news is the furthest thing from this. Setting regulations for everyone’s limits, assuming civility and responsibility, would be nigh impossible to track, file, and index.

    So now you’ve got a web of information, and no standards.

    Add in the trolls.

    You’ve got a hostile media in which you want to get out your message (campaign, in this case), but there are cheetovores out in the ether that profit (marginally, emotionally) off of mocking and degrading anyone. How are you going to survive out there, putting out your message if the first thing you trip over is the usage of the word “pimp”? Do you really want to provide an opening to the trolls over something simple like that?

    I wouldn’t stop nor mock you for rushing to smack Shuster in the face. I’m just hoping you’re not waiting up for me to join you in condemnation. I think it’s far too inefficient.

    I’m going to stop now so you can take a shot, rather than I just keep typing.

    (P.S. I’m also guessing you take the word “pimp” far more seriously than people my age do)
    (Correction: “the self-concern trolls” did not refer to you, it referred to the Clinton supporters)

  138. 138.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    Speaking of limits…

    Dug “Caidence” Jay, link to the whole thing, dummkopf. It’s good.

    crosses my line. I feel like I lost a couple chromosomes when that was posted. This slight has not yet been addressed.

    Jen! You’re going to answer for that insult, meanie!

  139. 139.

    ThymeZone

    Setting regulations for everyone’s limits, assuming civility and responsibility, would be nigh impossible to track, file, and index.

    Well, me might be having two different arguments.

    I am not talking about regulations, at all.

    I am talking about what people will personally tolerate.

    I don’t propose any regulation here. I propose that if the tv people shit on somebody, then that somebody has the right to raise hell about it as they see fit.

    That’s it.

    I know where my limits are, and everybody should know where theirs are, and we should be free to act accordingly.

    The people on tv don’t get to decide how they talk about me.

    (P.S. I’m also guessing you take the word “pimp” far more seriously than people my age do)

    Don’t know, but it doesn’t matter. This issue is not a democracy issue. If somebody sits on tv and says smack about me, I don’t care how many people approve, if I don’t approve, he’s going to have a problem with me.

  140. 140.

    myiq2xu

    Caidence, the idea that we should ignore insults and offensive conduct and language is just a surrender to the bigots.

    “Oh gee, Mary, when the guys at work make rude and offensive remarks all day every day, don’t feel harrassed, just ignore it.”

    “If your co-workers call you the “n-word” and make comments about picking cotton, just pretend you don’t here them Bob”

    But there is a bigger issue at stake here. There is a reason that the GOP and their henchmen in the lap dog media do these things. Josh Marshall called it the “Bitch-slap theory of electoral politics.”

    “One way — perhaps the best way — to demonstrate someone’s lack of toughness or strength is to attack them and show they are either unwilling or unable to defend themselves — thus the rough slang I used above. And that I think is a big part of what is happening here. Someone who can’t or won’t defend themselves certainly isn’t someone you can depend upon to defend you.”

    “Hitting someone and not having them hit back hurts the morale of that person’s supporters, buoys the confidence of your own backers (particularly if many tend toward an authoritarian mindset) and tends to make the person who’s receiving the hits into an object of contempt (even if also possibly also one of sympathy) in the eyes of the uncommitted.”

    I’m tired of having my candidates (and their families) bitch-slapped.

  141. 141.

    Jen

    crosses my line. I feel like I lost a couple chromosomes when that was posted. This slight has not yet been addressed.

    Jen! You’re going to answer for that insult, meanie!

    I’m not sayin’ I have much of a life, but I haven’t been here for the past five hours. And you’re interrupting my Wire time (see? Obama girl!)

    Sorry, I thought you had copped to being DugJay. Notsomuch?

    Goats Do Roam is a play on Cotes du Rhone. The Goat Roti is good, I’m having the Goats do Roam in Villages, less good, less $. Cheers Krista!

  142. 142.

    ThymeZone

    I’m tired of having my candidates (and their families) bitch-slapped.

    Finally! Something I can disagree with you about.

    See, I don’t think this is about candidates. It’s about what the people will tolerate from the machinery … of government, of politics, of media.

    In this situation, the network doesn’t get to hide behind “they’re politicians, so we can say anything we want.”

    No, they can’t, and that’s why they caved immediately. They knew that their employee had fucked up. Olbermann called it “indefensible” and made an abject apology even though he had nothing to do with it.

    It doesn’t matter if it had been Dick Cheney, the turd that he is, and his daughter … the language was not acceptable.

  143. 143.

    myiq2xu

    Unfortunately this new media with the internet and easy cable news is the furthest thing from this. Setting regulations for everyone’s limits, assuming civility and responsibility, would be nigh impossible to track, file, and index.

    So now you’ve got a web of information, and no standards.

    Add in the trolls.

    We’re not talking about some troll making rude comments on a blog. We’re also not talking about a bigot in a bar somewhere talking shit.

    We’re talking about one of the talking heads at a major network using insulting and misogynistic language.

    Also – consider how Tweety and the Village Idiots talk in glowing terms using masculine imagery of G-Dub, McCain and other GOPers, but try to denigrate and “feminize” democrats (except Hillary, who they portray as a castrating bitch)

    It’s not just the Clintons. MoDo called Obama “Obambi” and made other denigrating remarks about him.

    It is not an accident or a coincidence.

  144. 144.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    Caidence, the idea that we should ignore insults and offensive conduct and language is just a surrender to the bigots.

    wow. complete opposite of my position. totally.

    /sits up

    Josh Marshall called it the “Bitch-slap theory of electoral politics.”

    /follow link
    /consume page
    /~BURP~

    [Josh:] One way — perhaps the best way — to demonstrate someone’s lack of toughness or strength is to attack them and show they are either unwilling or unable to defend themselves — thus the rough slang I used above. And that I think is a big part of what is happening here. Someone who can’t or won’t defend themselves certainly isn’t someone you can depend upon to defend you.

    Now, I don’t like to argue against someone who’s rarely wrong like Josh, but everything I’ve read says the complete opposite of this. In order to be defeated by an insult — a spoken, not physical idea — you first have to acknowledge it.

    His analogy to a fight doesn’t match, because if you’re hit, you know about it. But if you’re insulted, you can feign that you didn’t notice. E.g.:

    “HAHA! I called you a whore!!”
    “What?”
    “I said I called you a whore!! You should go home and cry!”
    “Why? When did you call me that?”
    “This morning! I bet you were SO sad!”
    “I talking to my friends about someone’s wedding, I wasn’t listening”
    “You SHOULD be sad because I insulted you!”
    “Sorry, moment’s passed”

    NOW… maybe there’s more to this that I’m oblivious to. Let’s say Kerry had followed this little hypothesis/theory/idunnowhatitis and never allowed acknowledgment of the swifties… Fox News probably would’ve just concocted a false story that showed he did.

    Which leaves me in a mental bind. How do you value an opinion/insult levied against someone if the target can’t hear it but other people can pretend you did?

    And where is Cole on this? He’s a prof of communications, innit he? Why doesn’t he just come in here and pwn all of us on the best way to stay out of the swamps?

  145. 145.

    myiq2xu

    In this situation, the network doesn’t get to hide behind “they’re politicians, so we can say anything we want.”

    No, they can’t, and that’s why they caved immediately. They knew that their employee had fucked up. Olbermann called it “indefensible” and made an abject apology even though he had nothing to do with it.

    They were called out on it, just like they were with Tweety. if nobody had objected (which is what usually happens) they would have done nothing.

    It doesn’t matter if it had been Dick Cheney, the turd that he is, and his daughter … the language was not acceptable.

    Agreed – But they don’t do it to GOPers. Remember what happened when Edwards referred to Cheney’s lesbian daughter (politely and respectfully) during the 2004 VP debate?

  146. 146.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    Sorry, I thought you had copped to being DugJay. Notsomuch?

    Notsomuch. I’ll sooner cop to being a Naderite than an Assistant Junior Plumbing Materials Technician :)

  148. 148.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    We’re not talking about some troll making rude comments on a blog. We’re also not talking about a bigot in a bar somewhere talking shit.

    We’re talking about one of the talking heads at a major network using insulting and misogynistic language.

    Continuing my apprehension from my previous post, the mechanism I refer to says that text and context travel separately.

    i.e. In my head, Shuster saying Chelsea was being pimped isn’t even the slightest affront to Chelsea, it’s an attack on Hillary for willfully leveraging her family.

    So isn’t the issue here not with Shuster but the dickheads that listen to him and think this means open-season on Chelsea?

    Am I wrong in thinking this is the usual moral question of whether it’s criminal to provide opportunity for someone else to commit a crime? Doesn’t that usually hinge on intent? I, for one, don’t think Shuster had the intent.

  149. 149.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    Caidence (fmr. Chris) (also Dug Jay)

    Jen: Apology accepted.

    Good lord, Dug Jay just made a funny! Good job, dude.

    Keep that up and we might be able to take you out into normal society some day.

  150. 150.

    John S.

    That includes calling John Edwards a “faggot” and the “Breck Girl,” calling Hillary a “bitch” and calling Obama the “magic negro.”

    You know, I’ve been playing with my son and thinking about this. And here’s what I think.

    I agree.

    I think the way in which the remark was perceived differs primarily based on age, because for younger folks we just didn’t hear it the same way as some of the older folks did. But that isn’t really the issue, becasue everyone agrees (to some extent) that the remarks were out of line. But that has nothing to do with what they meant – in fact, that is really an irrelevant point. Whether it’s a ploy or people overreact is moot.

    The bottom line is that it was unprofessional. Shuster is a journalist for a major media network. He should act like one. This is about professionalism. The discourse needs to move away from these petty swipes and churlish namecalling so that we can get back to the facts. Back to the issues. We can focus more on what Hillary’s plans for the future are and less on whether her daughter is hustling votes for her.

    Because I don’t want my kid to grow up in an Idiocracy.

  151. 151.

    myiq2xu

    Now, I don’t like to argue against someone who’s rarely wrong like Josh, but everything I’ve read says the complete opposite of this. In order to be defeated by an insult—a spoken, not physical idea—you first have to acknowledge it.

    So if one of your co-workers begins referring to you as the “little faggot” on a constant basis you would simply ignore it?

    What if other co-workers, seeing that you don’t object, join in, until that becomes your nickname at work?

    Do you think that meekly allowing this abusive behavior might affect your boss’s opinion of you, as well as your co-workers? Could that affect your chances of promotion?

    BTW – Pushing back doesn’t mean you have to respond with violence or similar conduct, it only means you have to stick up for yourself.

  152. 152.

    ThymeZone

    I, for one, don’t think Shuster had the intent.

    I don’t either, which is why I call it a gaffe and not an intentional slur. But he still has to get dinged for it.

    They don’t do it to GOPers.

    I am inclined to agree, but I have no empirical data to back that up. But even if the data supported the assertion, I don’t think it matters. I am staying at a personal level. If they insult me, I am going to react. I don’t care what they do to other people, or how other people react.

  153. 153.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    So if one of your co-workers begins referring to you as the “little faggot” on a constant basis you would simply ignore it?

    What if other co-workers, seeing that you don’t object, join in, until that becomes your nickname at work?

    I’m not saying it would be easy, and I bet I’d buckle within the first day, but that’s the goal. The point I’m pushing says that without feedback, the name-calling stops because it’s a waste of energy and gets boring.

    Do you think that meekly allowing this abusive behavior might affect your boss’s opinion of you, as well as your co-workers? Could that affect your chances of promotion?

    Good point.

    Pushing back doesn’t mean you have to respond with violence or similar conduct, it only means you have to stick up for yourself.

    Sticking up for yourself is a double-edged sword. By doing so, you acknowledge that the insult has value, and thus provide incentive to get dumped on more. The point of my argument is to find a method that doesn’t require that backfire.

    I dunno. I’m somewhat read in neurology but hardly read in sociology, so maybe I’m thinking too close to the single human.

  154. 154.

    myiq2xu

    The discourse needs to move away from these petty swipes and churlish namecalling so that we can get back to the facts.

    Now you see my point recently about personal attacks.

    I’m not claiming innocence or perfection, because I can be snarky and sarcastic, but as things have become more intense and personal around here lately, I’ve made a concious decision to try to turn down the volume.

    We’re all on the same side here, but even those on the other side don’t automatically deserve scorn and derision.

    A proper rebuttal should be politely saying “you’re wrong, here’s why” and not “fuck you, you’re stupid.”

  155. 155.

    John S.

    A proper rebuttal should be politely saying “you’re wrong, here’s why” and not “fuck you, you’re stupid.”

    I disagree. Fuck you. You’re stupid.

    But seriously, things are heated all over because people are pretty fired up about the election this year. At this point, cooler heads need to prevail. Besides, as Atrios says:

    No One Gives A Shit Who You Vote For

    Not that my voted counted anyway…

  156. 156.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    But he still has to get dinged for it.

    good god, we’re talking past each other so bad. The myriad of subjects up for scolding are:
    1.) Shuster
    2.) MSNBC
    3.) Media
    4.) Media consumers
    5.) Republican media consumers
    6.) People claiming to represent Chelsea
    7.) The Clinton Campaign

    I’m admonishing (6) and (7), ThymeZone is wailing on (1-3) inclusive, and myiq is scathing over (4) and (5). Niiiiiice.

    We one big, co-existent ball of haet. rock on.

  157. 157.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    But seriously, things are heated all over because people are pretty fired up about the election this year. At this point, cooler heads need to prevail.

    [mindfuck]
    After G.W. Bush, we REALLY need to get fired up about cooling off.
    [/mindfuck]

    /this election race is going to be spectacular like the Hindenburg.

  158. 158.

    myiq2xu

    Sticking up for yourself is a double-edged sword. By doing so, you acknowledge that the insult has value, and thus provide incentive to get dumped on more. The point of my argument is to find a method that doesn’t require that backfire.

    What if, after ignoring the first couple of times it happened, you publically confronted the coworker when he did it again by saying in a firm, clear voice:

    “I don’t like that expression, it’s rude and insulting. Please do not call me that again. My name is Chris. If you keep insulting me, I will take appropriate action.”

    Do you think that might make a difference?

  159. 159.

    myiq2xu

    I disagree. Fuck you. You’re stupid.

    LOL – okay, I’m stupid and you’re ugly. Mom always liked you best.

    I’m not saying we can’t argue and debate, let’s try to tone down the personal shit.

  160. 160.

    myiq2xu

    I am inclined to agree, but I have no empirical data to back that up.

    Can you recall that kind of denigrating personal attack on any GOPer? I’m not talking about comedians, I’m talking about so-called journalists.

    If they insult me, I am going to react. I don’t care what they do to other people, or how other people react.

    I won’t argue with that. As my aunt once said “If you tease the dog, you deserve what you get.”

  162. 162.

    myiq2xu

    I think we covered it pretty well. I have to sign off now.
    Fuck everyone who disagreed with me, you are so stupid.

    G’night

  163. 163.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    Do you think that might make a difference?

    In my head, sure. What about the twisted fuck who can’t even get my orientation right? He’s going to do, with that information, what ever suits him best, not what’s reasoned and fair. “Rational motivation” might sound all heavenly and shit, but “rational motivation” is what got us into Iraq despite better logic.

    anyways… I came back to ask different issue:

    Doesn’t being all PC about this hinder our ability to have the media start cracking down on right-wing bullshit?? If we seriously want the media to go out and start presuming issues for us — a risky venture — because we expect them to know right from wrong, then don’t we hinder these people when we put them in the penalty box because they were liberal with the word “pimp”.

    Imagine: “Vice President Cheney, today, attempted again to convince the public of the Iranian threat. This reinforced the popular notion that the Vice President has resorted to shyster-tactics in order to push his agenda”

    The response would be “How DARE you call someone a word which was derogatory centuries ago!”

    Someone gets suspended, journalists learn never to go on the attack again because you might get busted for using the wrong word.

    Problem, no?

  164. 164.

    John S.

    Imagine: “Vice President Cheney, today, attempted again to convince the public of the Iranian threat. This reinforced the popular notion that the Vice President has resorted to shyster-tactics in order to push his agenda”

    The problem isn’t the word – it’s the lack of professionalism.

    Journalists are supposed to report the facts; Who, What, Where, When and Why. In reporting these facts, the term ‘shyster’ has absolutely no meaning, no context, no value. The reporter who used your sample phrase interjected an opinion into reporting the facts we need to hear about Cheney, and that is the distraction, not the perception about the word itself.

    If journalists started acting like journalists again, this wouldn’t be an issue. Can you honestly see Walter Kronkite spewing such nonsense or interjecting his personal opinion into the dialogue?

  165. 165.

    myiq2xu

    Imagine: “Vice President Cheney, today, attempted again to convince the public of the Iranian threat. This reinforced the popular notion that the Vice President has resorted to shyster-tactics in order to push his agenda”

    The response would be “How DARE you call someone a word which was derogatory centuries ago!”

    Someone gets suspended, journalists learn never to go on the attack again because you might get busted for using the wrong word.

    Problem, no?

    No

    I really hope you’re either drunk or being intentionally obtuse.

    If some bloviating gasbag said the Obama was “pimping out” one of his daugters or his wife Michelle, I would expect rightous indignation from Barack and the entire Democratic party.

    No one would have a problem seeing the racism in that comment. But it’s also misogynistic, and it’s a rude and insulting attack on a member of a candidate’s family.

    The whole “PC” thing was originally a liberal joke that got turned into a conservative myth of liberal orthodoxy.

    If some bloviating gasbag called Obama the “n-word” he would be summarily fired. Is that being “PC?”

    Exactly how rude and insulting does something have to be before it is actionable?

    And like I said before, it will always be a “joke,” a “misunderstanding” or a “mistake.” It will never be intentional, and someone will claim that we are overreacting. But it will keep happening until we make it stop.

    BTW – “Shyster” is a derogatory term referring to Jewish lawyers, and it may be centuries old but it’s still offensive to some people.

  166. 166.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    Journalists are supposed to report the facts; Who, What, Where, When and Why.

    That’s exactly what they do now: Cheney said Iran has nukes. He said this at the Coalition for Killing Brown People, today. He said this because of limited reports on nuclear activity in the region.

    The screw up currently isn’t the journalists, it’s that the right-wing learned that being shameless is still a very effective way of getting your propaganda out in the modern machine.

    Journalists are still operating on their training, which assumes the people they’re reporting on have some sense of shame. This is broken.

    So now we’re looking for journalists to compensate for lack of shame and lack of government intel because that lapse is keeping them from filtering the solid information from the propaganda. Also, without the BS detector, they have trouble going on the attack.

    Granted, going unprofessional isn’t much of an option, but why do you think blogs proliferated in the days of Dubya? The technology has always been there. It’s a very simple framework.

    Bloggers don’t have to choose between adhering to The Code or getting fired. They can say what needs to be said and leaving the credibility evaluation up to the reader. Still, not that great, but better than journalistic ethics right now.

    I’d prefer we jail politicians that have no shame, but there appears to be no law on the books

  167. 167.

    myiq2xu

    There is nothing wrong per se with criticizing politicians, political candidates and even sometimes their families.

    But criticism and insult are different things.

    Opinion, editorial, punditry and commentary are also different from reporting.

    If Shuster had simply said that he thought it was inappropriate for Chelsea to be participating in her mother’s campaign, there would be nothing wrong with that. Others might disagree, but he would merely be expressing an opinion.

    Nor is Shuster a comedian or someone who would be expected to use slang as part of his job.

    I think the reaction was appropriate. What he did was acknowledged as inapproriate, he was suspended and MSNBC apologized.

    If this was a one-of-a-kind incident I would agree with John Cole. But it isn’t. It’s part of a years-long pattern, directed almost exclusively at Democrats.

    That’s why we need to confront it and “deal with it.”

  168. 168.

    myiq2xu

    The screw up currently isn’t the journalists, it’s that the right-wing learned that being shameless is still a very effective way of getting your propaganda out in the modern machine.

    You’re assuming that journalists are somehow separate and apart from the rest of us. Many (but by no means all) of the media are part of the Right-wing Noise Machine.

    I don’t think this is the worst thing that has ever happened, and Shuster may very well be paying for the sins of others. I would agree that his apology and suspension is more than enough punishment.

    But we need to draw a line somewhere, and we need to make a few examples.

    Pushing back hard now could well make the difference this November, and when a new administration takes office.

  169. 169.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    Nor is Shuster a comedian or someone who would be expected to use slang as part of his job.

    That’s fair, but please remember that the average print newspaper uses a 7th grader’s vocabulary, and the Gray Lady uses a 9th grade vocabulary (don’t remember where I heard that, but apparently somebody measured). So, if that’s for people who read, what do you think the average comprehension is for the average drooling fucknuts that watch 24HCN? We’re running out of wurds myiq! Whut r we goin’ to do??1

    Many (but by no means all) of the media are part of the Right-wing Noise Machine.

    Unless you’re over-simplifying, I can’t agree with that. Modern-day cowardice is far more likely than an over-arching Republican system. Fox News? Sure. MSNBC? Now that’s a bit far.

    Shuster may very well be paying for the sins of others

    no comprende. What are you referring to in ‘sins’?

  170. 170.

    myiq2xu

    Let me add one last thing and then I’ll get off the soap box so someone else can have a turn:

    I think that Presidents and other elected officials are fair game for ridicule, sarcasm and criticism.

    And while I believe in the First Amendment and would never agree to a legal limitation on speech, there is a limit to what is acceptable. We have every right to push back when that line is crossed.

    We can push back in various ways, one of which is voting.

    I am sick of Democrats getting called cowards and traitors, just because we oppose war or won’t sign off on giving away our freedom.

    And I am sick to death of being insulted and having my candidates insulted with demeaning and derogatory talk from pieces of shit like Limbaugh, Malkin, Tweety, O’Reilly, Scarborough, Ingraham, and the rest of the bloviating gasbags of the GOP Slime Machine.

    They haven’t earned the right to talk the shit they do, and the people they talk shit about don’t deserve it.

    I’ll get just as pissed off if they talk shit about Obama or his family.

    Criticize a candidate’s positions, their words, or their deeds, that’s okay.

    But stop the name calling, insults and questioning of their patriotism.

  172. 172.

    myiq2xu

    I’m sorry Caidence, I shouldn’t have said that.

    I should have said “Tu no tienes cesos.”

  174. 174.

    jrg

    Shuster claiming the Clintons are “pimping” Chelsea is FAR, FAR less offensive to me that Mitt fucking Romney’s speech in which he stated he has to get out of the race or the Democrats will surrender to terrorists, and no one seems to have made a big deal out of that.

    NPR, The Daily Show, and the blogs all did. You can’t take someone as rich as Romney off the air.

    It sounded a lot like the lies the Republicans were spewing before the Iraq invasion, and a lot of decent people noticed. If this is the best the GOP can do, they may as well pack it in. Give Romney a bigger mic.

    Pushing back hard now could well make the difference this November, and when a new administration takes office.

    I’m so sick crap like this in the media. Clinton is right to make a stink. Label someone’s daughter a whore, get called out on it. Imagine that… Just like real life, minus the kick in the nuts or the punch in the face.

  175. 175.

    DougJ

    If Jenna and not-Jenna Bush were to hit the campaign trail for McCain then I would heartily endorse their being on the receiving end of the same shitstorm.

    I wouldn’t.

  176. 176.

    DougJ

    The sexualization of all this stuff is just fucked up. I wouldn’t endorse taking anyone’s daughter at any level of politics and using anything sexual about her in a newscast. Jenna, Barb, Chelsea, the Gore girls, whoever.

    It’s just not right. And if you have to ask why, you ain’t never gonna know.

  177. 177.

    DougJ

    And before you say “what about Cheney’s daughter”, let me say that if the candidate chooses to make an issue out of it by getting behind some piece of fucked up legislation that deals with his or her kids’ sex life, than obviously all bets are off.

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