Then, the son of a communist couple, and now, today, we learn that Obama is a 60’s radical at heart:
In 1995, State Senator Alice Palmer introduced her chosen successor, Barack Obama, to a few of the district’s influential liberals at the home of two well known figures on the local left: William Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn.
While Ayers and Dohrn may be thought of in Hyde Park as local activists, they’re better known nationally as two of the most notorious – and unrepentant — figures from the violent fringe of the 1960s anti-war movement.
Now, as Obama runs for president, what two guests recall as an unremarkable gathering on the road to a minor elected office stands as a symbol of how swiftly he has risen from the Hyde Park left to a man closing in fast on the Democratic nomination for president.
Captain Ed, with his daily (hourly?) hackdom:
Which brings us to the visit of Barack Obama and the apparent blessing he received from Ayers and Dohrn. This doesn’t mean that Obama professes the same support for political violence as the Weather couple, but it does show a lack of backbone in rejecting those that do. If Obama can’t stand up to two discredited American terrorists in Chicago … well, you get the drift. What does it say about Obama’s politics that Ayers and Dohrn approved of him, and what does it say about Obama that he felt he needed their blessing?
It says that you are an idiot for trying to make a big deal out of this.
Is it November yet?
pharniel
not yet. but expect things to get really bad.
*sigh*
i’m just happy i’m in a regulated industry, but i hate my job. so does the wife. but we dont’ see a way out for another few years if things keep deteroirating. we’ll be happy just to have jobs.
Jen
This one killed me, too. What do you think the editorial process at the NRO is like? “Nah, go back and put some more crazy in there, and bring it back to me.”
Ninerdave
An November is going to help why? If
OsamaObama gets elected the RWNM is just going to be even more insane.Pelikan
It won’t stick this time, the dude’s made of teflon. Plus even the densest voters seem to be noticing that, according to the RWM, the democrats are somehow managing to nominate the most liberal hippie evar. Every time! How do they do it?
Here’s the question all the blogs will be asking soon; What’s next for Hillary?
Me, I’d like to see her in a lightning rod position in a potential MUPadministration. Put her in charge somehow of going after the corruption of the previous 8 years. That would satisfy the revenge wing of the dems who seem to make up a core of her suporters, and it would prevent talk radio from thinking about anything else. So president Obama would have a free ride.
Or maybe I’m thinking too Machiavellian.
Sirkowski
Captain Ed is a pawn of the Sybionese Liberation Army working to discredit the right!
cleek
aw, have a little sympathy for poor Ed and the rest of the shrieking paranoid wingnuts: it’s going to be a rough 8 years out in the wilderness.
jenniebee
Ye Gods and little fishes, Jen. I didn’t get any further than this:
How stupid do you have to be to think that’s true?
I guess you’d have to be stupid enough to think that Fundies need to play nice with and know their place within the Republican party because they need Republican lip service more than Republicans need their votes to get elected, come to think of it.
Diving back in…
Dennis - SGMM
Bernardine Dohrn is such an unrepentant radical she now serves as an Associate Professor of Law at Northwestern University School of Law and as the Director of Northwestern’s Children and Family Justice Center.
These days, upholding the law and insisting on Constitutional governance probably does make one a dangerous radical in the eyes of the right wingers.
Jay C
Thanks for the link, Jen, very enlightening. Geez, the folks at the NRO Corner seem to have flown right off the rails lately at even the thought of an Obama Presidency – in addition to recent posts there flogging red-baiting, anti-semitism, and Islamophobia; now they’re dragging out hysterical radical-chic as a “attack”? Gimme a break: Obama isn’t even nominated yet, and they’re already slavering with glee over the “inevitable breakup of the Democrats”?
What planet are these clowns emailing this dreck in from?
Attaturk
Funny,
Hardly a peep about the relationship between MCCAIN & RICK RENZI…newly INDICTED Arizona Republican and McCain Supporter Rick Renzi.
Sweet, fair and balanced and all that.
NonyNony
Plus even the densest voters seem to be noticing that, according to the RWM, the democrats are somehow managing to nominate the most liberal hippie evar. Every time! How do they do it?
Not to mention the fact that the folks who were the most frightened of the liberal hippie takeover are mostly dying now. And the former liberal hippies and their peers are now on Medicare.
It’s kinda hard to scare folks with Communism, Socialism, Liberalism and Dirty Hippies when we buy toys from the Communists, the Socialists have a stronger dollar than we do, no one’s seen an actual American Liberal for decades (and even if they have, no one even knows what the world “liberal” actually means anymore anyway), and about the only places you can see a Dirty Hippie are a few college campuses and on the top of a pint of Ben and Jerry’s…
The Other Steve
Oh noes!
myiq2xu
Another Reaganesque reference?
The Other Steve
You guys are boring. I’m going to go read hillaryis44 and taylormarsh for fun!
Jen
They don’t call it America’s Shittiest Website (TM) for nothing.
They could’ve just called that op-ed “Avoid the Race War: Vote McCain.”
p.lukasiak
well, I’ve been saying all along that the GOP is gonna define Obama as “too liberal” for America, and McCain as a moderate — and what we are seeing is the foundation for that being built.
See, it doesn’t matter what the truth is, all that matters is that something can be sufficiently distorted to be close to the truth and make a candidate look bad. There is all sorts of stuff from back in 1996 that the GOP is going to use — stuff that Clinton can’t use because it won’t play with liberal Democrats, but will be used by the GOP smear machine because it will play with everyone else.
And don’t get me started on what the smear machine will do with the “cocaine” issue. If Obama gets the nomination, how long do you think it will be before a “crack cocaine” email goes viral? And how will the Obama campaign respond to that one… that it was “just cocaine, not crack”?
I personally think we’re going to see a lot more of this, and soon. Its win-win for the GOP — regardless of who gets the nomination, its good for the GOP. Even if Hillary is the nominee, doing damage to Obama now makes it that much harder to give Obama the VP slot and bring the party together.
AkaDad
Even if we’ve never instituted a theocracy here, I’m concerned that if Obama is elected, my daughter will have to wear a burka.
Jay C
Right Ed, so what would you have expected the young up-and-coming politician to do when brought round by his sponsor to meet a couple of local activists (“terrorists” or not – that was 30 years previously) in their own home: Spit on them? Slap her in the face, kick him in the shins and storm out loudly disclaiming his rejection of radicalism?
(In which case the Capt. Eds of the blogosphere would probably be all over him for being a rude asshole. With some peple you just can’t win…)
Buck
I think being a baby killer and a gun grabber trumps being a 60’s radical.
Jay C
No, they’re saving that one for the general campaign. IF they can even wait that long.
Punchy
Speaking of stealth Muslims, how many billions of dollars do you think that Cleric Al Sadr (sp?) demanded to extend his cease fire? 10 billion? 20 billion? Really, was there really a ceiling to how much he could have asked for, considering that the Republicans must have Iraq peaceful by November?
If I’m that cleric, I’m asking for $30 billion. At least.
The Grand Panjandrum
Thanks for the link. I read the article and on a scale of ten is has a cringe factor of 13.
Shorter Derb: Black Americans are stoopid. White folks is plenty smart, they just need a kick in the ass.
WTF?
Jen
He was *born* in 1961. Does teh stoopid hurt a lot?
The Grand Panjandrum
David Corn has this post over at the MoJo Blog:
It is things like this that make the blogs important. Furious and immediate refutation is now possible. As was pointed out the news cycle is now 24 hours, and nothing can go unnoticed for too long.
Birdzilla
NO OBAMA IN THE WHITEHOUSE
Wilfred
Yeah, that’s what you do in every post you write about Obama – just like you do here.
They’ve been at this for months. Clinton’s problem is that even though she’s been a good soldier in the war against Muslims, she can’t out thug Field Marshal McCain – official Aipac poster boy and Lieberman bobo.
if you want an idea what our Israeli allies think of knee-grows take a look here
libarbarian
1. Bill Ayers, and all the Weathermen, were little middle-class suburban pieces of shit trying to play radical. but they were only radicals in that they were radically self-centered egotistical bitches trying to get attention. Frankly, I think the ones who blew their own stupid asses to hell deserve a Darwin award for doing us all a favor and removing themselves from the genepool.
2. None of this means shit about Obama.
From the comments at Cap’n Ed
I’ve been hearing “X proves Dems have been hijacked by the radical left” for 2 decades now and for every X in the book.
Ninerdave
Birdzilla is apparently a Hillary supporter.
Scott H
Still, thanks to Captain Ed for bringing up that there was a time in the late 60’s and most of the 70’s when things were some really scary – and not what today’s diaper-wetters think is scary.
A more culturally, politically, and racially diverse era of random and fairly frequent murder and mayhem.
Dennis - SGMM
Hell, I can remember five decades ago when everything from sex education to fluoridating the water was proof that the Dems had been hijacked by the Commies.
myiq2xu
Or a McCainiac
myiq2xu
No brain – no pain.
What is amusing is the kids who support Obama because they are tired of the Baby Boomers running our country.
Neal
What’s sad is that that is an entirely true statement yet it will be used against him.
Maddening.
jrg
That will not work. “liberal” is not the pejorative it used to be, particularly since it now means “not conservative”, and “conservative” means borrow-and-spend, fear mongering, bigoted theocrat.
Wow. Blogging does not get much more hactacular than that. William Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn both stood trial, and are free and repentant. Timothy McVeigh bombed the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building (killing hundreds) in 1995, and remained unrepentant until he was executed.
At least Ed is acknowledging the far-right proclivities of McVeigh.
Looking past the 1960s to the present day, we’ve got McVeigh, Rudolph, a multitude of abortion clinic bombings, and the “unsolved” anthrax murders aimed at the media and prominent democrats. If I were a Republican, I’d stay far away from a discussion about domestic American terrorism.
Of course, as always, IOIYAR. God’s chosen warriors, and all that…
SenderC
I went down to the Dallas County Records Building today and voted me some MUP. FWIW, I voted the same place, same time (on a Friday at lunchtime) in the 2006 general election and the lines this time were just as long. I think he just might pull it off in Texas.
Z
With the ‘baby killer’ and ‘gun grabber’ thing though, they are attacking him on the issues, in their own special, crazy, hysterical wingnut way. Which is kind of cute! They haven’t had to resort to that in a while! It is also what I figured they would be forced to do.
cleek
“baby killer” is a phrase they should run with – it’ll play well in the general. nobody will think they’re crazy. nope, nobody at all.
Jen
Yeah, in a special Olympics kind of way. I am really, really, proud of them for fielding a candidate this year.
Zifnab
Obama’s gonna turn the entire political establishment on its ear if he’s the nominee. It’ll be nice if only because there will be so much pressure on the local polling points to play straight and fly right. People are going to get really hard to deal with if they’re not allowed to vote for their MUP, and it’s going to look really silly come the GE when some county in Alabama or Georgia has to start dumping whole counties’ worth of vote boxes just to keep their state looking red.
Grand Moff Texan
He can’t even bring himself to say it.
.
Prospero
He’s indicted for fraud and money laundering… All good, wholesome republican crimes. So it’s a non-story.
Cain
30 billion can buy a lot of arms. The man will have a war chest that can easily have enough to setup a splinter government for the south. All he has to do is wait. Mwahahaha.
cain
Zuzu
Geeze, when I saw the title of the Cap’n’s post – “Shaking Hands with Terrorists” – I thought it was gonna be about Rumsfeld meeting with Saddam.
Dennis - SGMM
Lemme see now, so far the wingers have accused Obama of being a stealth Muslim, a commie, Hitler, and now a 60’s radical.
Next up:
“One of our commenters has forwarded an email from an Obama insider. It reveals a conversation in which Obama praised Theodric the Great. What does it say about Obama’s politics that he admires a known Ostrogoth? The Ostrogoths were the terrorists of the Sixth century so it’s clear that the Ostrogoth-loving Obama will surrender to the terrorists.”
crw
Yes, the RWNM is going to try to paint Obama as “too liberal for America.” It’ll only work if Obama is stupid enough to be pushed into a defensive crouch.
I expect he’ll push back as he already is, by painting McCain as GWB part 3, and asking people who they trust more to solve the nation’s problems. The difficulty with the “too liberal” meme this year is people continue to trust Democrats far more than Republicans on the issues, and that’s an advantage Obama can exploit to diffuse the bullshit.
pharniel
NONONONONONO
it’ll be obama visiting newfoundland to see what a long and drawn out recession looks like, and commenting about how eric the red was quite couragous to come this way without knowing where he was going, and then all we’ll here is “Obama praised teh vickings! the people who invented smash and grab terrorism!”
it’s just as valid as any of the others.
Halteclere
Obama’s grandparents are from Kansas, and everyone knows that Bloody Kansas was in the grips of lawless anarchy during the Civil War.
Therefore Obama supports lawless anarchy.
jenniebee
Ugh, I kept reading Derby. New favorite quote:
Yes, the thing I remember most about the 80’s was the college radicalism.
Zuzu
More likely he couldn’t bring himself to figure it out.
Zuzu
From the NRO piece:
Wow, way to admit the abject failure of the GOP as the party of inclusion.
BJS
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4330128&page=1
More stoopid from Hillary – her campaign is now pushing Obama’s “link” to domestic terrorism
Steve
“It says that you are an idiot for trying to make a big deal out of this.” ba-zing. Point for John Cole.
And ps. November will never get here. We’ll be stuck in February for the rest of the year.
Wanted to let you know about a newsreader out there that exists that bases it’s content on what the user actually WANTS to see. It’s called ‘Sprout’. Very intuitive, quickly learns what you like to read and what doesn’t interest you. There’s a free trial on now. You can find it here: http://www.yoursprout.ca.
Zuzu
And her hubby is a Distinguished Professor of Education at the University of Illinois at Chicago.
Z
There is some debate about where the Baby Boomer line gets drawn. Many have the cutoff at 1964, others at 1960 (the book Generations by Strauss & Howe). Using the later standard, then Obama is a genXer, like me. He certainly talks like one.
BJS
I should have added that they are making the point that she should not be doing this since she has her own perceived “ties” to radical domestic terrorism. Both claims are ridiculous of course. It is a shame she is being forced to trot this stuff out. Desperation…
Jen – I am the one who thinks myiq is a woman. You are too.
Z
So he’s saying that black and white people only interact as part of Democratic Party politics? Way to admit he lives in an all white bubble!
Jen
Cool. Thanks. You can tell TZ that the next time he contends I must be a man because I haven’t followed his extra-double-secret decoder-ring statements which he has sprinkled through the blog over the last two and a half years. :)
Tsulagi
Plus, has anyone really disproved that on his mother’s side past relatives collaborated with the British during the American Revolution? I think not. That just proves Obama and his entire clan have long suckled on the tits of America’s enemies.
People like Captain Ed can’t be fooled so don’t even bother trying to argue. They know how to read yound and old countertops to divine their secrets. They’re special.
libarbarian
No shit. I was amazed when I read that. I’m thinking of some of the people I work with and thinking “Boy, here I thought we got along because we are regular people with some shared experiences who can relate to one another, but I guess I was wrong and its all because of some Democratic Coalition thats about to fall apart.
Drat! There goes my plan to get a new black friend.
Jen
From BJS’ link…
Yeah, I was wondering that too. I was just sitting around wondering what a field day the Republicans would have with it. I was just idly musing on that, thinking to myself how very, very regrettable it would be, were any Republicans to come across this information.
There just aren’t words for my disdain for these campaign staffers.
Jen
I know I sent the NRO link, but really, for your health, you should not read any more. It’s kind of like, I dunno, mercury in tuna fish. In small doses, you can handle the toxins, but you definitely don’t want to go over there more than twice a week.
Tony J
The ‘Obama is teh new scary-liberal bogeyman’ meme was summed up today in a knee-slappingly crappy comment piece in the Murdoch-owned Times by Gerald ‘I could not be more pleased with myself’ Baker.
Basically because Michelle Obama said she wasn’t proud of her country, and the Left in America always blames their own country for everything, and because Barack Obama is married to her, he has now been exposed as the spokesman of the ‘Blame America’ movement and is obviously unelectable by an American electorate that will never vote for a European-style Socialist as President.
Go and read it, I’d link but my aged PC is on her last legs.
Ugh
Hmmm… if they’re “discredited” terrorists, then Captain Ed must think there are some legitimate terrorists which means, ZOMG Captain Ed supports TERRORIST!!
SenderC
As John has said, they really do not care about destroying the Democratic Party if it means Senator Clinton wins the nomination. I’m fascinated and can’t look away at things like Taylor Marsh’s site. It may be nutpicking, but there are people over there saying they’d prefer 4 more years of Bush over voting for Obama. What is wrong with these morons?
Zifnab
These are actually the “liberal” relatives of the people who claim they’d take Hillary over McCain because… you know… better a political antithesis than the candidate you didn’t hissy-fit your way into winning the nomination.
Andrew
This was my first thought as well. But you must remember that Derb was probably still out of it in the 80’s, recovering from that fight with Bruce Lee a decade earlier.
Dreggas
I guess I’ll have to keep my eye on the GOS for the whole “Obama is a terrorist” troll-a-thon to start. It’s been quite amusing out there, in fact I have a new theory. The more trolls and troll diaries posted on the GOS the better Obama is doing.
Z
libarbarian,
I guess we just didn’t get the memo. I’m going to have to call my friends and tell them we can only hang out if we start going to democratic party meetings.
Brachiator
This might work only with the lunatic fringe and the perpetually frightened, but Obama supporters most likely will be immune to this nonsense. There is a generation of voters who are not old enough to care about commies, pinkos or other assorted variety of supposed radicals. They don’t listen exclusively to right-wing radio or hang out in right wing blogs.
One sea change that has happened is that places like YouTube and the self-selected playlists of iPods make it harder for ideological goons of any persuasion to push a message.
Or the GOP might find that it is so out of touch with the national sentiment that it will go the way of the Whig Party.
You need to put the crack pipe down. But seriously, you’re joking, right?
Wow. This nonsense so clearly comes with its own self-destruct mechanism that you gotta wonder why Team Clinton even bothers. The very first paragraph of the story points out teh stoopid:
crw
n.b. The Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory
Most if not all these people will come around and vote Democrat regardless. Just relax and laugh at the foibles of human nature. As Dear Leader Obama says, it’s the silly season.
My question is: how can anyone look at human political behavior and seriously argue we’re not just glorified apes?
Michael D.
What does it say when a President kisses the rings of a family of dictators? What does it say when a president spent part of his college years with a rolled up dollar bill up his nose?
The Other Steve
I love this. It’s not even February, and they’ve compared Obama to Hitler, a Communist, a 60’s Radical. Where can they go from there?
Lesson to Republicans: Don’t put crazies in charge of your message.
Sheesh
The Other Steve
That you’re the kind of guy people want to have a beer with!
The Other Steve
They also seem to have left out how absolutely pissed they were at Obama when he made some casual comment about the excesses of the 60’s and 70’s.
The stoopid makes my brain hurt.
yet another jeff
That he probably later put that dollar bill in the g-string of a stripper?
p.lukasiak
Ah yes, the old clinton rules.
First of all, start with the headline Clinton Camp Pushes O-Bomber Links: Ignores Her Own Radical Ties then don’t include a word about “Her Own” radical ties. Then, blame Hillary for stuff her husband did, because as we all know, women are no more than extensions of their husbands. And, of course, compare apples to volleyballs — the decision by a president, after concerning all the facts, to pardon criminals convicted of terrorist acts, and a presidential candidate who began his political career hanging out with people who are to this day ‘radical (albeit nonviolent) leftists.’
Then, of course, have the Obamaniacs misrepresent what the Clinton campaign is doing (pointing to the kinds of things that the GOP will use against Obama if he is the nominee).
Basically, the Clinton camp is saying what I said upthread — there is stuff in Obama’s past that can and will be used by the GOP smear machine. Its ALREADY out there — the New York Sun published the story of the Ayres contribution, and the Drudge Jr.s over at the Politico wrote about the meeting at Alice Palmers.
ThymeZone
Uh huh. 25 bucks to the first person who can provide proof that you are a woman.
No time limit. Need my email address Jon? Er, Jen?
Original Lee
Re: Obama being a Boomer. Until about 1986, the Baby Boom generation was defined by demographers as people born 1945-1960. Around about 1986, demographers and others noticed that even though fewer babies per year were born in 1961-1966 than during the Baby Boom, more of those later babies made it to adulthood. So they shifted the goalposts to include the 1961-1966 cohort in the Baby Boom generation, even though these people were not considered Boomers until after they were all grown up. IIRC, there was a paper in Science with a graph, although the purpose of the paper had something to do with predicting the number of PhD scientists.
Therefore, technically, Obama wasn’t a Boomer until he was in graduate school. I do not consider him a Boomer, nor do I consider anybody who was too young to remember JFK a Boomer. So there!
Jen
I know you’re just trying to get me to send you nudie pics, TZ, but really, $25? They’re worth soooo much more.
Digital Amish
Good God! Radical Manchurian Islamofascist, Red Diaper Baby, Slum Lord bag man, violent Anarchist, homosexual drug addict. To think I actually voted for this man. I need to take a shower.
Seriously, at some future debate on Fox or whereever, he’ll be slapped with these things. And he’ll calmly lay them aside as nonsense. But what I’d wish he’d do is get in whatever cretin’s face and yell
“Are You Fucking Kidding Me! You utter one more stupid ass question like that and rip your head off and shit down your neck!”
That’s what I’d really like to see.
ThymeZone
Uh, no. Probably two dozen BJ posters over time know me, my real name, maybe even where I work. My identity is really easy to prove. I can even track you my IP address right down to my work desk and prove where it is. I’ve spoken on the phone with BJ posters. This is not rocket science.
If you wanted to establish your identity it would be really easy to do. If you dont trust me, then establish it with someone else as a proxy, that I can accept. It’s just 25 bucks, it wont break me. Go ahead. Convince me you are a girl.
Jen
That’s ok, TZ. Like I’ve said, I don’t really care who you think I am, I just think your obsession is kind of weird.
Johnny Pez
Fun fact: Obama’s mother is only 4 years older than Hillary. Gives you a new perspective on their relationship, eh?
ThymeZone
Really? Then your zeal to talk about it and gin up the elaborate defenses will stop, and you’ll just ignore me?
When does that start? Because, that is the appropriate response if I’m wrong, isn’t it?
I have to admit, I didn’t really think you’d play the knitting card.
THAT was a hoot.
Tlazolteotl
Yes, the thing I remember most about the 80’s was the college radicalism.
I’m sure he must have been referring to all those Young Republican chapters that were springing up everywhere to incubate the current batch of wingnuts.
But of course, ‘the 60s’ is code to these people for almost everything they hate the most: civil rights for women, blacks, and ‘teh gais’ (the rest of what they hate the most, of course, being tied to ‘the 30s’).
gypsy howell
The Larry and Susan Nutshow has been flaying this story for days. In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me if they’re the ones who peddled it to Politico and Capn Ed.
Jen
First of all, I wasn’t talking to you when I talked about knitting, and cooking, and clothes. I was talking to myiq. I was actually interested to see if anyone knew what any of those things were. When I brought up MST3K once, geeks poured out of the woodwork. There are lots of references around here that I don’t get that I assume are to online gaming or sci-fi or something I don’t follow. I didn’t get any responses, which is fine, just lets me know a little more about the interests of the folks around.
I don’t ignore you because one, you ask things, and I was raised to answer people, especially the elderly, when they talk to me. And two, as wasabi said, I don’t let things go. Clearly, though, I have let go of trying to convince you of anything, and I am just hollerin’ back.
I wasn’t aware there was a “knitting card”. That would be where I try to win the Girl Game by saying I knit? Men knit too. At home I have bookmarked a fairly good knit blog run by a guy in Brooklyn, but I don’t remember what it is, here.
gypsy howell
Jen and TZ – go get a room, already! Geeeez…..
Jen
TZ would say he’s not gay. :) Nah, I’m sorry, guys, to bore the rest of you. It’s true, I don’t let things go. I’ll try to do better.
So, are you named after Gypsy from MST3K?
Pb
Fixed.
Seriously, that’s why she’s been running with George H. W. Bush’s “ready on day one” slogan, she’s been running as an incumbent, as someone who was in the White House, part of the Clinton administration. And all that comes with it.
p.lukasiak
The Larry and Susan Nutshow has been flaying this story for days.
have you got a link that has them writing about Ayres and Dohrn prior to the NY Sun and Politico stories?
In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me if they’re the ones who peddled it to Politico and Capn Ed.
the sourcing of the Politico story is interesting — it comes from someone who was there who is described as “an advocate for universal health care”.
Which suggests that, at the very least, this guy is a Clinton supporter… and now that i’ve said that, I expect full blown speculation that the Clinton campaign was behind the whole thing.
I have a hard time believing that this guy was found by the Politico –instead, it was probably the other way around. And if that is true, I think its safe to say that he also/first tried to get the story to the Clinton campaign, and they knew about it.
But the fact that they knew about it doesn’t mean the campaign was involved in the original story.
Remember when Obama was bragging that he didn’t have to worry about GOP attacks, because the Clinton campaign had a good oppo research department, and hadn’t come up with anything? Well, if you think the Clinton campaign was involved in this story, then you have to admit that Obama displayed an enormous level of naivite — because it not that the Clinton campaign didn’t have stuff — its that they chose not to use it.
chopper
the part i like the most in the story:
nice. gotta love a sore loser.
ThymeZone
So, uh, you suppose a rule that only the poster being addressed can respond to your posts?
The subject of your gender comes up frequently, I am not the only person who brings it up, am I? Just the loudest.
What’s your point? Do you have a point?
Let me guess, you talked about knitting because it’s a really big thing in your life. You know a lot about it. You’re probably knitting right now, aren’t you?
You are spinning a yarn, alright, I’ll give you that.
ThymeZone
Wow, I’ve seen desperation before, but you are pushing back the boundaries.
Naivite? Your candidate has been rope-a-doped into the biggest freefall in primary campaign history, man. I’ve never seen anything like it.
Jen
I’m at work. That’s why my knitting websites are bookmarked at home, not at work. Duh.
p.lukasiak
Seriously, that’s why she’s been running with George H. W. Bush’s “ready on day one” slogan, she’s been running as an incumbent, as someone who was in the White House, part of the Clinton administration. And all that comes with it.
no, in fact when she talks about her years in the white house, its solely in terms of her own accomplishments (and failures like the health care plan.) While she’s happy to remind people how much better things were during Bill Clinton’s presidency, she talks about it ways that any Democratic politician would.
I do consider Clinton’s White House years highly relevant experience, however. She has witnessed first hand what it means to be President — she knows what the job entails, what the pressures and rewards are, and learned from mistakes made.
One of the most striking moments for me last night was when Obama said [paraphrase] “I wouldn’t be running if I didn’t think I was ready” [emphasis added]. Obama thinks he’s ready, but he really has no idea what its like to be President. Hillary Clinton knows she’s ready — she knows the job better than any person who hasn’t been President.
Pb
p.lukasiak,
Face it, she gets the good with the bad. She’s running on the Clinton legacy, and those eight years of experience are the same ones that Bill Clinton would get if they got back into the White House. But even if I fell for your inane parsing here… well, as the Clinton campaign would say: “Wonder what the Republicans will do with this issue“.
chopper
hillary’s campaign is treading dangerously into “if i can’t have it, nobody can” territory.
p.lukasiak
Face it, she gets the good with the bad. She’s running on the Clinton legacy,
I think there is some truth to that — I mean, if she wasn’t in the campaign, I think all the candidates would be talking about how much better things were under Bill Clinton. But she’s got the “Clinton legacy franchise” sewn up, because shes married to the guy.
But I think its fairer to say that she is running “with the Clinton legacy”, but running on her own experience and accomplishments.
But even if I fell for your inane parsing here… well, as the Clinton campaign would say: “Wonder what the Republicans will do with this issue“.
I think they’ve already got a plan — turn it back on the accusers in the form of an (entirely appropriate) accusation of sexism.
ThymeZone
Good one. Your knitting websites.
AkaDad
Brachiator
Yes, it’s what I do.
ThymeZone
Hillary’s greatest accomplishment as President by Injection was to take healthcare and transform it from a viable issue into a third rail of politics for fifteen fucking years, so that there was no chance we’d get reform.
Good work, really. Great job.
Zuzu
Ewww, what’s the deal with his hair??!!
Zuzu
Well, we may be voting for just such a president…though of course he was smart enough to admit it.
Brachiator
Not even.
Let’s not start there. This is why I did not quote the headline, which often comes from editors and does not necessarily convey the message of the story.
Uh, no. Neither you nor Hillary Clinton can have it both ways. She is not claiming a political career independent of her husband, and she is nothing like some of my favorite Californians Pelosi, Boxer, and Feinstein. Instead she is claiming that the proximity granted her because she was the spouse of a governor and president magically made her either an apprentice, trainee, co-governor or co-president or some other extra-constitutional but un-elected office. None of her claims of 35 years of experience would be even remotely plausible had she not been the spouse of the president.
Note that I use spouse here, because it is not just a woman thing. It is, for example, suspiciously like Dubya’s claims that he could be president ’cause he learned everything sittin’ on his daddy’s knee.
I think you mean “after considering all the facts.” But even this is bogus. The president’s power to pardon is like a monarch’s power to grant mercy. The Constitution does not require that the president consider much of anything. And presidents have abused this privilege. Scooter Libby.
You seem to be saying here that Hillary Clinton should be the president because she is pre-smeared, not because she is potentially a better leader.
Not interested.
p.lukasiak
You seem to be saying here that Hillary Clinton should be the president because she is pre-smeared, not because she is potentially a better leader.
sort of. I do think that Hillary will make a better candidate because she is, as you put it, ‘pre-smeared’…. I mean, this is a woman whose life has been subjected to a whole bunch of really hostile full blown ‘biographies’. The right wing has thrown everything they have at her at least once — and she’s still standing.
With Obama, we don’t know what they will throw at him (well, we some of the stuff, like wanting to make handgun ownership a crime) and we have no idea how he will react to these kinds of attacks (but his response to the ‘drivers license’ question in the debate after Clinton’s answer caused a media firestorm isn’t exactly inspiring.)
(And you can call me paranoid, but I also think that GOP operatives in the CIA and FBI are leaking stuff. I mean, when did Larry Johnson suddenly become an expert on Keyna? And if you don’t think that the FBI has been keeping tabs on Ayres and Dohrn, and that there is a file on Obama because he was associated with them, well, I don’t know what to tell you.)
Asti
Yo Jen, a man who says the above is NOT obsessed with you. He’s asking you to leave him alone. Why don’t you?
Brachiator
Here is the rub. You speak more of Hillary being a better candidate, but not a better president.
To use a metaphor from military history, to allow the GOP to have any influence in determining the Democratic Party nominee would be like allowing an enemy general to select the officer corps of his opponents. It is absolutely wrong for Democrats to allow the GOP to select the field of battle, to frame the debate, in any way, shape or form.
Democrats need to stop cowering in anticipative fear about what the dreaded GOP MIGHT do. This also applies to the Democrats in Congress who roll over because they fear losing votes or outraged constituents. This is a waste of time. We need to come at these goons with a stake, silver bullets and garlic.
Obama’s advantage now is that he has large numbers of people behind them. Bill Clinton had this advantage also, especially when the GOP goons were bewildered as to why Bill’s approval ratings continued to soar despite the impeachment ordeal.
By contrast, Hillary Clinton’s support has eroded, and she, sadly, not only has failed to demonstrate the political instincts to draw people to her, but also insists on selling herself as a super-intelligent super-serious drudge, who will work hard, and who positions herself as a president for the difficult times ahead. Here, she demonstrates that she doesn’t understand the history of her own party. What was FDR’s theme song, despite the depths of the Depression? “Happy Days Are Hear Again.” Senator Clinton’s biggest weakness is that, unlike the party, and unlike her husband, she does not come from a place called Hope. That she might lose the support of voters makes her far more vulnerable than Obama.
Yeah, we kinda do. They are already trying out the commie, radical, secret-Muslim thing. They are rehearsing the “once a drug user, always a criminal” thing, and I have a pretty good idea of what else they may try, thanks to a recent John Cole posting from the NRO about the good old days of segregation.
The funny thing is that the GOP, like right-wing talk radio, is finding that their relentless wingnut cheerleading and propaganda appeals only to a small, if vocal fringe.
On the other hand, the people who deride Obama as “a poet, not a fighter,” have forgotten the example of Muhammad Ali. I look forward to watching Obama float like a butterfly and sting like a bee as he demolishes the ugly old GOP.
I can outdo you in paranoia. I can easily see the White House inviting right wing talk show hosts to another “off the record” meeting where they will be given copies of all kinds of CIA and FBI stuff on Obama, along with suggested talking points to keep them on message.
I also think that one of the reasons that GOP zealots fear John McCain is that they are not sure that he will go along with the nastiest anti-Obama smears that they are working on. For example, if McCain were inclined to seriously draft Colin Powell as VP (or even, if he were stupid, Condi Rice), the GOP and their 527 swift boat wing, would find it almost impossible to come out with race-based anti-Obama attacks.
But even apart from this, McCain no doubt has a long memory of how the GOP attempted to attack him and to humiliate his family, by suggesting that he had fathered a black baby. Unless he decides to sell his soul to fuel his ambition, I don’t see McCain going as far as the GOP might like in attacking Obama (or even Senator Clinton). The GOP had a free ride with ethics-free morons like Dubya, Cheney and Rove and the gang. Now, they don’t quite know what to do.
The GOP’s worst nightmare is Obama vs McCain.