Hillary Clinton, last night:
“You know, the hits I’ve taken in life are nothing compared to what goes on every single day in the lives of people across our country.”
John Edwards, December 13th:
What’s not at stake are any of us. All of us are going to be just fine no matter what happens in this election. But what’s at stake is whether America is going to be fine.
Jack Stanton, fictional character in Primary Colors, 1996:
“Y’know, I’ve taken some hits in this campaign. It hasn’t been easy for me, or my family. It hasn’t been fair, but it hasn’t been anything compared to the hits a lot of you take every day.”
“The hits that I took in this election are nothing compared to the hits the people of this state and this country have been taking for a long time.”
That is why Hillary is running as the experience candidate. You have experienced it all before. I guess we can call that experience you can Xerox (was there a more cringeworthy moment in the night? You could just tell she was given that line from Wolfson or Penn).
And before I get 1500 testy Hillary fans in here, let me be clear- I don’t think Hillary did anything wrong appropriating this rhetoric last night. It was a nice end to a good debate. I do think this shows how baseless the plagiarism charges she and her staff levelled at Obama last week were, and demonstrates the kind of crap we will get from a Clinton White House once Hillary and her flunkies take over. And that really has been the story for this election. Hillary is a great candidate, but she has a terribly flawed coterie of scummy advisors.
(via Josh Marshall, Dan Drezner, and Ben Smith who put this all together)
SmilingPolitely
Here’s the YouTube link of the Clinton campaign embarrassing itself… again:
Hillary is a fan of John Edwards’ speeches
SmilingPolitely
YouTube link of Hillary using some of Bill’s material from the 90’s in last night’s debate:
Hillary’s campaign is a joke
Anonymous Jim
Wait, you think there are 1500 Hillary fans left?
Bill
More like experience you can queue up on Netflix.
Robert Sneddon
“Hillary is a great candidate, but she has a terribly flawed coterie of scummy advisors.”
There’s an old Russian story that ends with the punchline that the Cossacks work for the Emperor. Either the “scummy advisors” are doing her bidding which doesn’t bode well for her presumptive Presidency, or she doesn’t know what they’re doing in her name, which doesn’t bode well.. but I’m repeating myself.
That’s what makes Obama electable in my eyes (although as a non-American citizen I do not have a dog in this particular hunt). His choices of who represents him, who runs his campaign with such obvious competence, now *that* bodes well for someone who could be the next US President.
demimondian
You do think that there’s something wrong with her using that quote right now, though — hypocrisy. And you may be right.
To be clear, she has every right to reuse a phrase that she lifted from her husband; indeed, depending on how his speeches got written, reusing that quotation may not actually be plagiarism. But to complain about lifting phrases from other speakers, even with permission, and then to do the same yourself…that’s pretty lame.
4tehlulz
Maybe he’s confused that with 1500 miq2xu posts.
SmilingPolitely
If Mark Penn had any sense of honor or shame, he would be falling on his sword right now.
dbt
It’s not an academic paper. The charge just doesn’t apply, and it’s childish. These speeches are written by lots of people, including the candidate, campaign strategists and speechwriters. If one of those campaign advisors is an elected official who used that phrase before in a speech, how is that any different than a speechwriter?
(Now this is slightly different from the ’88 case when Biden, I think, borrowed someone else’s LIFE STORY without attribution, which is a different act.)
Gus
Is it just the Dems who have such a stable of “political advisors” who are such hacks? The Shrums, the Penns, etc. all seem to be on the Dem side.
John Cole
I have no problem with her saying that last night. Especially because I think she really meant it.
Exactly. That is the point of this post. She let one of her flunkies, one of her cast of pedophile extras from Law and Order SVU, one of her Grima Wormtongues (have I made myself clear?) whisper in her ear that accusing Obama of plagiarism would be a real “gotcha.” It was a cheap, tawdy, and bullshit accusation, but she did it anyway. And she didn’t want to, as the expression on her face cleary showed her distaste for it during the “xerox” comment last night. And, on top of it all, she has been lifting rhetoric from people the entire campaign.
The Other Steve
Apparently the thing with Biden. He’d used that story in like 20 public speeches, and remembered to attribute it 19 times.
The problem was the 1 time he did not, it was on camera.
Bob In Pacifica
Yeah, but what about that part of her speech this week where she said, “My sweet Lord, my sweet Lord. Krishna Krishna. Hari Hari”?
The Other Steve
She should have hired Mark Foley instead of Mark Penn?
Why hire an extra when you can get the real thing.
4tehlulz
Oh man. Hillaryis44 is so far off the deep end:
SGEW
All I wanted was for Obama to respond to the “change you can Xerox” attack by saying “Oh really, Hillary? Did you write that line?”
Right? Either she did come up with it (in which case, boo for you Sen. Clinton, and your cheesy verbiage), or someone else wrote it (ha ha! Xerox this!).
Mugatu
What I found funny about the “change you can Xerox” line, the big line she’d been practicing in the mirror, her attempt at a “You’re no Kennedy” line, was how out of date it soundsed. I guess it focus grouped better than “Change you can cut and paste”?
SGEW
By the way: Please, please stop quoting from HillaryIs44. It hurts my brain.
PINOs? Progressives In Name Only? Really? Matched up with Naderites, who are, by association, not progressives? Coming from a Hillary Clinton supporter?!?
B’Gods! At least when I read WND or RedState I can enjoy teh stupid. This stuff just makes me want to drop my Dem registration and vote for Nader again, or something.
Jeff
At least Hillary did not steal her entire theme from “Bob the Builder”
/sarcasm
Stooleo
This is like watching some insane guy screaming at a parking meter. Reality has become too real.
cleek
is h44 a RedState spinoff ?
TheFountainHead
Hillaryis44.com is the best thing EVAR!!!111eleventyone!1
They are so off the deep-end, I literally can’t get my jaw off the floor. So far, this is my favorite, a comment made during last night’s debate, this is the entirety of the comment, no editing was done here:
Wow. I’m going back for more. It’s like dumpster diving for gold.
Jen
The weird thing is, everything they’ve thrown at Obama has been focus-grouped and tested (shocking, I know) for efficacy, and all it did was make Obama into rubber and Hillary into glue, if I may borrow a retort from second grade.
I just think that’s delightful.
The way he dealt with it last night was masterful. Called it silly, which of course to nearly any normal person it is, and went on to talk substance. He could’ve cited times where she’s used things without attribution, but it would’ve undercut his message that it’s silly. He just looked like the bigger person for it. And *then* she came back with that dumb Xerox line and made it worse for herself.
And we have to hear about how much he’s going to suffer with the R’s because he’ll have no idea what hit him. ORLY?
Cassidy
It still amazes me that this golden opportunity for real reforms and changing our gov’t back to one that believes in civil liberties, is being squandered with petty infighting. Do the fanboys and girls realize they are giving McCain and the Republicans, the little room they need to pull off a victory?
Andrew
Yes, gold. Gold made from highly compressed poop.
chopper
yeah, clinton really tried to take a page from the rove ‘attack his strengths’ playbook. unfortunately, she and her advisors didn’t realize that rove only succeeded at that sort of shit because he had a large infrastructure (the hallowed right-wing noise machine) at his disposal.
it’s like watching a witch casting a spell and repeating the same lines and nothing happens. wtf, it worked for her?
Cassidy
I thought that was coal. Why do you hate big oil? Why do you hate America?
John S.
Hillary hate! Asshattery!
Your comment has no merit until Jen approves it.
zzyzx
That’s a subtle advantage we have in 2008. So much of the RWNN doesn’t like McCain, that they won’t rally around him the same way they have other candidates.
Jen
I will be happy to mediate John and Demi’s discussion for my standard rate of $185/hr, half of that for travel time, and a standard one-hour preparation time charge to be added to the fee for mediation. The cost of the mediation is to be divided equally among the parties unless you agree differently during the course of the mediation.
Jen
I may be a hack lawyer, but I have the important bits down.
John S.
LOL
I don’t think I will be needing your services at this point. Although, for any future mediations I’d be happy to barter my advertising services at a rate of $125/hr. which doesn’t include any printing or media buys.
TheFountainHead
More poop-gold:
Fwiffo
I actually felt sorry for Hillary when she was delivering that attack. Nothing’s working for her right now, so she has to try something. But her heart wasn’t in it. Some creepy consultant probably felt pretty self-satisfied for coming up with the line and fed it to her, but without any “there there”, it was DOA. She knew that, but she didn’t have anything else.
I thought she was actually pretty good during the rest of the debate, but she need a knockout punch that just wasn’t there.
I’m in the Obama camp, but she deserves better than having to deliver inept attacks like that.
The Other Steve
I will gladly offer my services to do printing or media buys for $8 million/month.
borehole
It’s kinda sad, to me at least. Maybe I’m giving her too much credit for her own internal awesomeness but it seems like the 90s taught her to never trust her own instincts, to always defer to the Bob Schrums (and–ulp–worse) of the world.
I thought we were just using Obama to smack a little of the ol’ Hillary back into her before it was too late, but I guess it’s already too late and has been ever since she refused to stand up and say, “what, did I stutter about not staying home and baking cookies, motherfucker?”
Turns out, three hours of snow-shoveling makes one philosophical, yet not terribly coherent.
Krista
Oh noes! Obama was taking notes!
Good lord, that Hillaryis44 bunch are kind of like your loud-talking, socially unaware,second cousin who likes to go on, ad nauseam, about his interest in Egyptian architecture. Part of you can’t believe you’re actually linked to this guy, part of you wants to help the poor bugger, and part of you just wants him to be quiet and go away.
Jen
Okay, I’ve avoided the Great Pink Satan until now, but they are pretty loony. It’s just like a big stream-of-consciousness angry pink chat room. It kind of reminds me of a friend who fell into an unfortunate Clay Aiken fanboi phase some years back. (Rehabilitated now.) There’s probably a fair degree of overlap, there, come to think of it.
mantis
How about this to top it off:
The firm that includes Mark Penn, Mrs. Clinton’s chief strategist and pollster, and his team collected $3.8 million for fees and expenses in January; in total, including what the campaign still owes, the firm has billed more than $10 million for consulting, direct mail and other services, an amount other Democratic strategists who are not affiliated with either campaign called stunning.
Wilfred
We have one great candidate: Barack Obama. After 16 fucking years I think we know all we need to know about Clinton – the errors in judgment and poor choices are not because her advisers her assholes, it’s because she is. Either she picked them or they were picked for her – either way it discredits her.
Just. Fucking. Go.
wasabi gasp
Someone sit her on a copy machine and Xerox that.
That pantsuit was fabulous!
myiq2xu
I can sense the testosterone dripping from you with every keystroke in that statement big guy.
myiq2xu
You go girl! And take those tacky shoes with you!
myiq2xu
I’m only up to 1127 so far, so kiss my ass.
1128 now.
But seriously – Kiss.My.Ass
ThymeZone
There is an interesting dynamic at work right now in the Democratic Party around the rapid ascension of Obama.
There is also one going on in the Republican Party, around the ascension of McCain.
People in various pockets of these parties are reacting in strange and not always rational or predictable ways.
But at the end of the day, it’s pretty clear that on election day in November, we are going to be looking at an Obama-McCain contest.
Is there any sentient Democrat who doesn’t think that that’s a fabulous matchup and that we aren’t going to kick the Republicans’ sorry asses from coast to coast in that election? We can stop getting our shorts in a bunch over the primaries, they’re basically over.
myiq2xu
From Taylor (gasp!) Marsh:
Whatever
Jen
ORLY? Was it having a friend who was a Clay Aiken fanboi that did it? ‘Cause that is pretty masculine, I admit.
My favorite knitting patterns are by Debbie Bliss, favorite recipes by Sara Foster, favorite truffles are Joseph Schmidt, I lust after the clothes at bodenusa.com, and you can see my prior responses to the towel folding and childbirth. I admit that I do not like pink, or cats, or the View, but I don’t find those things dispositive. BTW, someone else thinks you’re a GIRL, so I guess we’re even.
p.lukasiak
If one of those campaign advisors is an elected official who used that phrase before in a speech, how is that any different than a speechwriter?
Well, all candidates present the illusion that when they give a written speech, the words they are saying are their own. So when someone like Axelrod copies something out of an old speech written for Patrick, and hands it to Obama, who then presents the words as his own, it might not be plagarism per se, but there is a sense of cognitive dissonance, and if handled correctly, would have been effective in puncturing the Obama mythos.
That being said, Clinton herself handled this poorly — when asked about it, she should have replied in exactly the same way the Obama campaign replied when they were asked about the racism charges (“no comment, but people should be able to make up their own minds”) — and left it at that. (even better would have been to site the quote, and the circumstances surrounding it.)
The problem for Clinton is she’s damned if she does, and damned if she doesn’t. She’s held personally responsible for everything her prominent supporters say — and when her surrogates provide valid criticism of Obama, the media ignores them unless they ‘step over the line”. No one holds Obama responsible for the fact that his supporters do refer to her as a “b*tch”, or even held Obama responsible for the role his campaign played in promoting the idea that Hillary was running a racist campaign, or that his co-chair has going around to black superdelegates and pressuring them on the basis of racial solidarity.
ThymeZone
Dude, give it up. Really. You gave it a shot, it didn’t work out. Try a new handle and some different schtick.
Jen
Aw, TZ, just ’cause you don’t know what any of those things are doesn’t make me a dude.
ThymeZone
Is there really?
I already posted both the link and the quotes, I won’t post them again. Get a fucking clue, man. Patrick works on the Obama campaign. And your stupid candidate chose to try to make an issue of the speech thing. Damned fool thing to do, made her look ridiculous. Honestly, it was a panic move.
ThymeZone
Knowing how to gracefully take responsibility for the actions of surrogates is part of what a president has to do all the time. Somebody as “prepared” as she claims to be would know how to do that.
ThymeZone
What makes you a dude, “Jen,” is that you act like a dude trying to look like a woman.
If you stop doing that and actually look like a woman, people might rethink.
You might be a woman, but you are doing a great imitation of a man trying to look like a woman.
Jen
I think P-Luk’s in the “anger” stage now.
Soon, we will see bargaining, possibly for a cabinet position, which I don’t think is necessarily a bad idea.
demimondian
Cabinet position? I doubt it — VP is more likely.
myiq2xu
The knitting patterns BS gave it away. Full time attorney and working mother who knits?
demimondian
And besides, Jen, it’s not your cabinet fronts they care about, it’s your counter tops. (My are Silestone, if you must know.)
cleek
how horrible. she’s being treated just like every other politician in the history of politics!
montana
Hard to believe that “ready on day one” line when totally unprepared for February 6. Yep, prepared for tomorrow but not yesterday.
Jen
TZ, you’re just weird. I don’t know what on earth I’ve said that makes me sound like a man, or a man trying to sound like a woman, or a woman trying to sound like a man trying to sound like a woman. I’m just me, and you’re just Grandpa Simpson, and we can just leave it there, ok?
John Cole
Except that Obama, Patrick, and Axelrod all claim that is not what happened. Or are you calling them all liars?
This is why Hillary is “unfairly” burdened with the sins of her supporters. The bad faith, the arrogance, the slime, the sleaze all permeate every level of her support and ooze its way to the top through her advisors and taints her in the process. It isn’t Hillary’s fault that many of her supporters and advisors are perceived (quite fairly, IMHO) as shitbags, but she would have been smart to do somethign about it. You, yourself, P lukasiak, have said some pretty slimy things since you went completely and totally in the tank for Hillary.
That may not be Hillary’s fault, but it sure doesn’t help her.
Jen
The great thing about knitting is that you can do it for five minutes at a time, and put it down for six months, and it doesn’t matter. Eventually, slowly, you’ll finish. The kid will have outgrown it, and you’ll have to find another kid, but that’s o.k.
Maybe this’ll help.
ThymeZone
Yes, that’s obvious. And a number of people here think your gender is in question. So don’t try to make it about me. It’s not about me. It’s about you.
4tehlulz
Maybe she’s actually Julie Andrews.
John Cole
I honestly don’t know who is and is not female here (other than krista). I never really thought about it, but I do remember a thread talking about feminists or something when a large number of people “outed” themselves as female. There were a few long time commenters that surprised me.
You are all just pixels (or people) to me.
cleek
i’d bet a far greater number don’t think that, and don’t care either way.
Jen
It’s weird, isn’t it? He’s sort of fanatically devoted to outing me as a man, baby! Or a woman pretending to be a man pretending to be a woman, or something. I didn’t really follow. Periodically, when I’m feeling down, I don’t think too well.
Cassidy
Full time Soldier and father who gardens…gotta have a hobby.
Maybe she’s on this page:
Cassidy
damn links…try again
href=”http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/2008_swimsuit/”>
Cassidy
screw it…damn technology…
Jen
Definitely a woman, trying to sound like a man with the SI link…
:)
wasabi gasp
Jen’s a girl: she doesn’t let shit go.
Jen
That, I cop to.
Although I prefer to think of it as having what my husband (a man) refers to as the burden of a legal education.
Jen
I don’t know why everyone assumes Krista’s a girl but not me, anyway. Krista seems very cool, almost a kindred spirit to me, maybe a little more normal, though.
Cassidy
Is that the same as a lesbian trapped in a man’s body?
ThymeZone
As I get tired of saying, this is a site characterized by spoofing and trolling, and it is useful to pay attention to the details.
If somebody says “as a woman, I think this” and it’s actually a guy, I think that matters. It could be the guy who has posted here under 2-3 dozen handles since I have been here, for example. More than a few of those handles had feminine names.
I make a point of figuring out who the spoofs are and who the personas are. I am right most of the time, and it matters to me. Whether it matters to someone else or not, I couldn’t care less. You do your thing, and I will do mine.
ThymeZone
Couldn’t say, but some of us know each other in other settings, as I am sure you know. Everything you say just sounds completely dishonest. You going to pretend you didn’t know that?
Cassidy
You need a new hobby…try gardening.
cleek
clearly.
i am.
wasabi gasp
BZZZZT! Wrong answer.
The answer is: You don’t listen to a word I say.
Game Over. Play Again?
Jen
Clearly. Or knitting. If you stick to the simpler patterns, it’s very therapeutic. The more complicated ones, you’re liable to mess up on, and that’s frustrating. Especially if you knit in front of the tv like I do.
Sheesh, TZ, I don’t really care if you have nothing better to do than attempt to ferret out internet spoofs, but it’s not particularly friendly, or true, to say everything I say is dishonest. I’ve enjoyed being here and chatting with people, even you.
ThymeZone
Fuck you.
demimondian
I prefer gardening, although right now my roses are being particularly annoying.
ThymeZone
I think it is pretty much true, and I am not trying to be friendly. I don’t give a shit what you think.
And I am going to call you out at every opportunity, so you might want to sharpen your game. I’m better at this than you are, amigo.
Jen
It’s hard to garden at night after the kids go to bed, in a drought. I hope to be able to garden more, someday. I do put in tomatoes every year though, since they’re so yummy fresh.
At least that seems like an appropriately female-sounding thing to say. Should I have added “as a woman” first?
Jen
*sigh*, whatever, TZ. Call me out, amiga.
ThymeZone
And Jon, er Jen, you think you avoided my main point in the post above …. you didn’t know that a lot of people here know each other in other settings?
Well, I don’t believe that’s true, I think you do know that. One would have to be deaf and blind to be here for any length of time and not know it. But let’s say for the sake of conversation that you didn’t know it.
Well, now you do. So adjust your thinking accordingly.
I have fifty dollars that says you are one of the people I describe above. Feel free to prove me wrong. You can buy yourself some new sewing patters with my money.
Cassidy
Haven’t tried roses yet, as I tend to not stay in one place too long. I tend to go for the more landscaping side anyway. I mostly use Mexican Heathers and Silver Sage and mums in the fall.
I’d really like to go for roses though. I saw these really deep purple ones that I thought were just absolutely beautiful.
Flatterred, but not an option for a hobby. I don’t swing that way.
Ninerdave
That’s racist John. I’m ashamed for you.
Cassidy
I thought we were talking about Hillary being the “experience” candidate?
dnA
Thanks for reminding me not to piss you off John…LOL
Jen
You know what, TZ, I don’t even know what you’re talking about. Incontrolados thought I was you, and Demi said I wasn’t, and she said, you know TZ Demi? I guess you guys know each other? You know other people, too? For all I know there’s a big group of you there in the nursing home all taking turns on the same computer. Whatever. I never really thought about it, and I don’t care. Like John said, you’re all sort of pixel-people to me. I come for the politics and the humor, not the mind fucks.
I don’t know what people you’re talking about. A man?
I don’t sew. I knit. They’re different.
You can keep “calling me out, amigo”, but for my end, I’m done.
p.lukasiak
Except that Obama, Patrick, and Axelrod all claim that is not what happened. Or are you calling them all liars?
well, aside from the “words” thing (and the entire theme of the campaign) there is at least one know instance where a line was directly lifted from a Patrick speech (“I am not asking anybody to take a chance on me. I am asking you to take a chance on your own aspirations.” Patrick June 2006, Obama November 2007 — except that Obama said “anyone” not “anybody”) without attribution — and I’ve yet to see this explained.
Is this a crucial issue? Of course not. I could care less if Obama (and/or his speech writers) are stealing good lines and themes from other campaigns, if he had a record of accomplishment that showed that what he is saying is possible. But the only “truly meaningful” thing that his message of hope and unity have accomplished is getting him elected. Once in office, he operated pretty much like every other politician — he didn’t build a broad-based coalition to achieve truly meaningful change in either the Illinois Senate, or in the US Senate. He was just an average politician with above average rhetorical skills.
I think what you are seeing in the Clinton campaign is a struggle to find a way to break through the myth, and see the real “average politician” that Obama’s record shows. The plagarism nonsense was part of that strategy, but its been handled horribly.
Hillary is an average politician as well — but one with a direct understanding of how the office of the Presidency works, and how Washington works, and one who has faced crises and is still standing.
The choice we are really faced with is between two typical politicians, one with great inspirational rhetorical skills but little relevant experience, and one with lots of relevant experience but little in the way of inspirational rheotrical skills.
ThymeZone
Get off it, Jon-Jen. I have recruited members to our mailing list several dozen times right here on these pages, over the last two and a half years. As recently as a few weeks ago. It’s right out there in the open. I have even put my email address right here in posts (slightly disguised to foil the spammers) for that purpose.
Are you going to continue to insist that it never occurred to you that some of us know each other? Okay, well now you do know it. As to who knows who and how, that’s not for public consumption.
But there is a layered dynamic here. There is a very large spoof population here. There are multiple personas here. Don’t try to pretend that everything here, in terms of who is who, is all visible to the naked eye. It isn’t, and anyone who hangs here will figure that out and handle it in one way or another. Like I said to cleek, you handle it your way, and I will handle it my way.
demimondian
Yeah, this is the first place I’ve lived where I’ve been willing to try roses — and I lived here for eight years before I felt it was worth the investment, and that I’d actually see them grow. That and the kids were too young to allow me to grub around in a garden for more than a few minutes a day.
Ah, well. Bone meal and blood meal for me this weekend.
ThymeZone
Winter is the only real enemy of roses. They thrive out here in the desert as long as you give them enough water.
It takes some patience to get them going. The soil here is hard, and a rose will take a year or maybe two to get its root system built before it really takes off above ground.
Once a rose has a robust root system here, it is almost indestructible. And out here, the production of flowers is almost overwhelming. Just about year around, except for the hottest weeks in July and August.
Jen
Well, Cleek and I might meet at Merlefest some year, but the mailing list sounds a little X-files to me, thanks anyway. What do these “roses” you and Demi keep discussing represent….? Don’t worry, I’ll figure it all out someday….the truth is out there….
ThymeZone
It’s just a bunch of people exchanging ideas and anecdotes about the world of blogging.
Roses? They are flowers we put in our yards to delight the passersby. You may have seen pictures of them.
demimondian
Winter is indeed the enemy of roses, but we have barely any to speak of up here — the temperature rarely falls below freezing, in fact.
I think I just need to prune them back and fertilize them. They didn’t get pruned last year (power outage, major storms, etc.), so I think I need to show them some extra love this year.
Randolph Fritz
Thing is, Obama’s campaigning on a platform that the Clintons wrote back in the early ’90s. Makes a Clinton testy, I think.
myiq2xu
It’s probably the breasts.
Pb
p.lukasiak,
I (almost) can’t believe you’re still peddling that bullshit.
Sad.
Helena Montana
“And that really has been the story for this election. Hillary is a great candidate, but she has a terribly flawed coterie of scummy advisors.”
No, that’s not true. I’m sorry but you are absolutely incorrect. A great candidate would not surround herself with, and keep, a coterie of scummy advisors. She and her campaign have made a series of awful decisions based on flawed judgments from base motives. Hillary Clinton is many, many things, but a great candidate is definitely not one of them.
Jen
Yeah, sure. I’m guessing Scientology, 9/11 Truthers, alien abductees, or…hopefully not…some kinda weird fetish…ooh…
ThymeZone
Gosh, what a complete surprise that in the absence of information, you will just make some up.
myiq2xu
It’s just a bunch of guys discussing the finer points of ball-scratching.
You’re welcome to join.
Jen
Ah, so it’s Truthers, then.
ThymeZone
Um no, it’s co-ed. We can tell the genders apart pretty well. If only we could do that here.
Jen
I think you’re the only one who cares. You looking for a girlfriend or something? They put pictures up at craigslist, I think.
myiq2xu
It’s not about “caring” like caring about an issue. It’s more like a hobby spotting spoof goofs.
ThymeZone
Do you? That’s a very convincing argument, I must say.
myiq has this right. Don’t tell him tho, it will go to his head. He might change his name to myiq3xu
wasabi gasp
I ♥ man hands.
tBone
Who gives a shit about Jen’s gender? I more interested in what caused p. lukasiak to begin plumbing the depths of utter hackitude.
Brachiator
Bad strategy. Bad tactics. Bad campaigning. And pointless. Even if Senator Clinton were to “break through the myth” of Obama, it does not follow that it would gain her any support.
Clearly, her advisers strategy is more cynical, and more potentially self-destructive. She is attempting to peel off Obama supporters, especially new voters, Independents and Republicans. These people might not vote at all if they decide that they no longer like Obama.
But with Nader foolishly rumbling to enter the race again, the idea of forfeiting voters is so stupid, that this in itself should disqualify Senator Clinton.
This is much like saying that Chelsea Clinton should run for president one day just because she grew up hanging around the White House.
That Hillary Clinton has some deep knowledge of the office of the presidency or how Washington works is as much a myth as some of the more outrageous stuff attached to Obama. That she has faced crises is just nuts. She never had to fear losing elective office and her primary decision was whether to stand by her man. This stuff may be admirable, but it is at least one remove from a chief-executive, a governor or a president, having to face opposition and find a way to govern anyway.
I give her credit for being a fast learner, a good Senator, and someone who has had a breadth of experience in many advisory capacities. But she has not displayed much of a flair for leadership. And strangely, she not only does not know how to inspire, she has indicated in some speeches an absolute disdain for wanting to connect to people. She is more Calvin Coolidge than FDR.
ThymeZone
Oh, that’s easy. Lukasiak took a pro-Clinton position in the election cycle, and fell in love with the idea to the extent that he defended it at all costs, beyond reason.
Happens all the time. Unreasonable clinging to a position is worth a lot of churn and page views in the blogworld.
Gilmore
Regardless of whether ThymeZone is a woman, I think we can all agree this from hilaryis44 is awesome:
I am so proud. Just reading her closing statement took my breath away. Yesterday, I received the 192+ dollars of Hillgear I ordered in the middle of January to get me through Super Tuesday (I’m sorry to say I’m from GA and even sorrier that my gear being on back order made it necessary that I borrow a Hillshirt and rewash it for every occasion). Now, I can wear my shirts, hat and jacket while using my coffee cup, water bottle and HRC keyfob to make it clear how much I support and, yes, love this woman. I want to protect her, fight for her and alongside her and every day is more intense. I believe that, if this lunacy continues and we are denied the opportunity of HRC in the white house, this country will suffer immeasurably. I also believe, with every cell in my body, that HRC will be our next president. Every cell.
Fess up, which one of you posted this?
Gilmore
HOLY CRAP I am sorry to spam but this one makes the last one look sane. Savor it:
it used to be that a group of men would defend a woman to the death if there was even the mere appearance of impropriety against her by a black man. He would be lynched if it was ASSUMED he looked at her wrong. Now, less than fifty years later, we find ourselves where the woman is lynched by the group of men, if she dares to cause discomfort, or even the appearance of same to the black man.
Sometimes it’s good to remember not all the peabrain crazies are in the 29%’er camp.
Jimitha
ZOMG plagiarism!
borehole
Hey, Gilmore, speaking of things so insane they make other things look sane by comparison–you’re really spending a lot of time over there, huh?
Not judging, just trying to feel better about my BeliefNet addiction.
p.lukasiak
Oh, that’s easy. Lukasiak took a pro-Clinton position in the election cycle, and fell in love with the idea to the extent that he defended it at all costs, beyond reason.
I’ll repeat, for the slow people here.
I started out this election cycle as ‘anyone but Hillary’. After looking at all the available non-Hillary candidates, I thought Edwards was the best choice. Only when it became obvious that I better look for a second choice and I was only going to have two options did I even bother to consider Clinton — and decided that she was the better of two far less than perfect options.
I try to be objective — and I’m not attacking people in the way that you (and lots of others) attack me.
Asshole ;-)
Royston Vasey
H44:
*blinks*