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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Mediocre white men think RFK Jr’s pathetic midlife crisis is inspirational. The bar is set so low for them, it’s subterranean.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

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This is dead girl, live boy, a goat, two wetsuits and a dildo territory.  oh, and pink furry handcuffs.

If you voted for Trump, you don’t get to speak about ethics, morals, or rule of law.

“When somebody takes the time to draw up a playbook, they’re gonna use it.”

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

Jack Smith: “Why did you start campaigning in the middle of my investigation?!”

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

Let’s bury these fuckers at the polls 2 years from now.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

I am pretty sure these ‘journalists’ were not always such a bootlicking sycophants.

One of our two political parties is a cult whose leader admires Vladimir Putin.

We can show the world that autocracy can be defeated.

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Usually wrong but never in doubt

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

Today in our ongoing national embarrassment…

It’s pointless to bring up problems that can only be solved with a time machine.

Not all heroes wear capes.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

I’m more christian than these people and i’m an atheist.

Weird. Rome has an American Pope and America has a Russian President.

If you cannot answer whether trump lost the 2020 election, you are unfit for office.

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You are here: Home / Politics / War on Terror / War on Terror aka GSAVE® / This Will Be Interesting

This Will Be Interesting

by John Cole|  February 22, 20086:26 pm| 57 Comments

This post is in: War on Terror aka GSAVE®

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Via TPM, this news:

Air Force Col. Morris Davis, who resigned in October over alleged political interference in the U.S. military tribunals, told The Associated Press he will appear at a hearing for Salim Ahmed Hamdan.

“I expect to be called as a witness … I’m more than happy to testify,” Davis said in a telephone interview from Washington. He called it “an opportunity to tell the truth.”

At the April pretrial hearing inside the U.S. military base in southeast Cuba, Hamdan’s defense team plans to argue that alleged political interference cited by Davis violates the Military Commissions Act, Hamdan’s military lawyer, Navy Lt. Brian Mizer, told the AP.

Davis alleges, among other things, that Pentagon general counsel William Haynes said in August 2005 that any acquittals of terrorism suspects at Guantanamo would make the United States look bad, calling into question the fairness of the proceedings.

“He said ‘We can’t have acquittals, we’ve got to have convictions,'” Davis recalled.

Col. Davis better cover his countertops.

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Reader Interactions

57Comments

  1. 1.

    SamFromUtah

    February 22, 2008 at 6:33 pm

    …general counsel William Haynes said in August 2005 that any acquittals of terrorism suspects at Guantanamo would make the United States look bad…

    Yeesh. The kangaroo courts weren’t marsupial enough for this Haynes character?

    All of this crap needs to be aired, but I’m dreading hearing all the sickening depths of it.

  2. 2.

    jake

    February 22, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    Davis alleges, among other things, that Pentagon general counsel William Haynes said in August 2005 that any acquittals of terrorism suspects at Guantanamo would make the United States look bad, calling into question the fairness of the proceedings.

    My IronyOMeter just blew up and fragged one of the cats.

  3. 3.

    Zifnab

    February 22, 2008 at 6:44 pm

    My god, the terrorists have infiltrated our very highest levels of military command. When will we see the US Government finally purge itself of these Saddam-loving, insurgent-defending, America-hating obstructionist thugs?

  4. 4.

    Bubblegum Tate

    February 22, 2008 at 6:53 pm

    He’s the Manchurian Colonel!

  5. 5.

    calipygian

    February 22, 2008 at 7:03 pm

    Colonel Davis obviously suffers from Stockholm Syndrome.

  6. 6.

    Elvis Elvisberg

    February 22, 2008 at 7:06 pm

    Col. Morris had been a huge defender of these trials for a long while. But he resigned once Haynes was put in charge.

    “[Haynes] said these trials will be the Nuremberg of our time,” recalled Davis, referring to the Nazi tribunals in 1945, considered the model of procedural rights in the prosecution of war crimes. In response, Davis said he noted that at Nuremberg there had been some acquittals, which had lent great credibility to the proceedings.

    “I said to him that if we come up short and there are some acquittals in our cases, it will at least validate the process,” Davis continued. “At which point, [Haynes’s] eyes got wide and he said, ‘Wait a minute, we can’t have acquittals. If we’ve been holding these guys for so long, how can we explain letting them get off? We can’t have acquittals. We’ve got to have convictions.'”

    Everything is suspect with these people. Everything. 60 Minutes is doing a story this weekend about an imprisoned Dem former governor who may just be there because Karl Rove wanted him out of the way.

    The simple fact that these stories were reported at the Nation and Daily Kos would have been enough for me to disregard them, five years ago– much less the accusations themselves. But I got sick of being wrong about everything– Iraq, Plame, etc.

  7. 7.

    Chris Johnson

    February 22, 2008 at 7:07 pm

    ….but by God you’d better be PROUD of America regardless, or, or… a wingnut might be mad at you!

  8. 8.

    jake

    February 22, 2008 at 7:09 pm

    I bet Davis is close friends with Obama. And sure he has pale skin and blond hair but how do we know he isn’t the product of a joyless and perfunctory mating between a Commie Caucasian and an Islamofascist?

  9. 9.

    Rex

    February 22, 2008 at 7:17 pm

    I hope that everyone on the Left now sees the problems inherent in giving these people trials in the first place.

  10. 10.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    February 22, 2008 at 7:18 pm

    The fun thing is that Davis is described in circles as an “honest-to-god conservative”, or “the most conservative guy around”. The people on the right will let their guard down, and might even approach him with a cup of kool-aid, too. Unfortunately for them, he’s not a Conservative, he’s a conservative.

    I’m going to love the cognitive dissonance when the rotary blades make contact:

    “W- Why do you want to let the TERRORISTS go, huh? You some sort of Palestine sympathizer?? Huhn??”

    “Because I’m a conservative”

    “N- No you’re not, you want to let TERRORISTS get acquitted!”

    “Yes, I want to conservatively prosecute only those that are proven to be terrorists”

    “But it’s Conservative to lock them all up regardless of silly little laws! You lock them up, and then get on with your lives!”

    “No, it’s conservative to follow the law”

    “NO, it’s LIEBERAL to follow the law, it’s Conservative to dominate, destroy, and pillage people that hate us for our Americanness”

    “Pray, tell, what are you being conservative about in that situation?”

    “Risk of being aware of differing viewpoints and conflicting cultures. What else is there to be Conservative about??”

    /You keep using that word…
    //I don’t think…

  11. 11.

    Chris Johnson

    February 22, 2008 at 7:34 pm

    Elvis- bloody hell man.

    I’ve never been one to automatically dismiss things from the Nation and Kos (I never read Kos though) but I’ve never heard of anything like this.

    I’d like to know how many of our guys in the House and Senate are familiar with what happened to this Alabama governor. You’d think it wouldn’t be a Red State guy ‘pinocheted’ like that, but then I guess the resources for doing it there were better than they could get in blue state land…

    Bloody hell but that would explain a lot. WTF?

  12. 12.

    myiq2xu

    February 22, 2008 at 7:36 pm

    Why do we need trials? We know they’re guilty or they wouldn’t have confessed!

  13. 13.

    Xenos

    February 22, 2008 at 7:39 pm

    They did not hide what they did to Seigelman – they wanted everybody to know about it.

    Pelosi has family with money and connections (I don’t know Reid, but I suspect he does to). If impeachment were to go back onto the table, how long until the DOJ is picking through her siblings, cousins and nephews & nieces’ lives, looking to make a score?

  14. 14.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    February 22, 2008 at 7:45 pm

    They did not hide what they did to Seigelman – they wanted everybody to know about it.

    Pelosi has family with money and connections (I don’t know Reid, but I suspect he does to). If impeachment were to go back onto the table, how long until the DOJ is picking through her siblings, cousins and nephews & nieces’ lives, looking to make a score?

    That’s a good point; something I never thought of.

    And since I’m not optimistic that the DOJ’s newfound partisan hackery is going away in my lifetime, I wonder how this is going to play out. In order to re-establish its dominance as one of the branches of governement, it’ll need a way to swiftly impeach federal attorneys… can they do that? I’m not read up on what Congress has checking powers on and what it doesn’t.

  15. 15.

    John S.

    February 22, 2008 at 7:50 pm

    Totally OT, but…

    Did anybody read this story today?

    Police concerned about order to stop weapons screening at Obama rally

    Dallas Deputy Police Chief T.W. Lawrence, head of the Police Department’s homeland security and special operations divisions, said the order — apparently made by the U.S. Secret Service — was meant to speed up the long lines outside and fill the arena’s vacant seats before Obama came on.

    Emphasis mine.

    Does this strike anyone else as incredibly bizarre and at the very least, foolhardy?

  16. 16.

    t jasper parnell

    February 22, 2008 at 7:50 pm

    O Seigelman go read Scott Horton’s various No Comment posts he has been all over this.

  17. 17.

    myiq2xu

    February 22, 2008 at 7:53 pm

    Does this strike anyone else as incredibly bizarre and at the very least, foolhardy?

    If Dallas isn’t safe, no where is.

  18. 18.

    Wilfred

    February 22, 2008 at 7:53 pm

    Fiat justitia ruat coelum – good for this Col, Davis, and any others like him who are willing to stand up what’s right.

  19. 19.

    MikeF

    February 22, 2008 at 7:54 pm

    Congress could impeach the US Attorney’s, but they. They aren’t going to do a damned thing while Bushco throws their tantrums and shits all over the Constitution.

    I finally realized that the Democrats plan is to let Bush have everything he wants, punish the people for doing something so mind-bogglingly stupid as allowing Bush into office the first time, and then electing him (maybe) in 2004, and then tying the Republican Party to Bush and his policies.

    Watching the fundies and the corporate wing go at each other has been amusing, but I wonder if this may literally be the last throes of the Republican Party. I think that is what the Democratic Leadership (NOT!!!) is hoping for. I will not say they planned it, but I think they are hoping for it now.

    “If the Goverment is a car setting out to give every one a ride to work, then for 40 years the Republicans have been puncturing the tires, pouring sand in the gas tank, stealing the distributor cap, and, whenever they can get their hands on the wheel, driving it straight into the nearest ditch and then, pointing to the wreckage as the tow truck backs up to it, saying, ‘See, this proves that people were meant to walk.’
    And they do this so that they don’t have to chip in on gas.” – Lance Mannion

  20. 20.

    Ninerdave

    February 22, 2008 at 7:55 pm

    None of this will matter anyway. According to the White House, we’re dead already:

    “We have lost intelligence information this past week as a direct result of the uncertainty created by Congress’ failure to act. Because of this uncertainty, some partners have reduced cooperation. In particular, they have delayed or refused compliance with our requests to initiate new surveillances of terrorist and other foreign intelligence targets under existing directives issued pursuant to the Protect America Act.”

  21. 21.

    HumboldtBlue

    February 22, 2008 at 8:02 pm

    That Colonel is probably nothing more than a phony soldier.

  22. 22.

    Liberal Masochist

    February 22, 2008 at 8:03 pm

    re: ninerdive post

    This is a political points scoring attempts (realize you know this) and a CYA as well. In the off chance something DOES happen, well you know…

  23. 23.

    John S.

    February 22, 2008 at 8:05 pm

    If Dallas isn’t safe, no where is.

    Good one.

  24. 24.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    February 22, 2008 at 8:06 pm

    I finally realized that the Democrats plan is to let Bush have everything he wants, punish the people for doing something so mind-bogglingly stupid as allowing Bush into office the first time, and then electing him (maybe) in 2004, and then tying the Republican Party to Bush and his policies.

    They plan on executing this fault-less plan sometime before Happy Meals at McDonald’s, and sometime after they get done daydreaming about being a superhero with courage of steel (and x-ray vision).

  25. 25.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    February 22, 2008 at 8:12 pm

    Does this strike anyone else as incredibly bizarre

    Not in the slightest. I wouldn’t dare put it past these degenerates (that still sounds too kind to them) to order the Secret Service to stop protection and then hope Obama gets hurt.

    I honestly believe that, if they were given information that they could advance Republican control if they sold a baby girl to a child rapist, they would actually consider the idea and at least get as far as finding a girl.

  26. 26.

    cbear

    February 22, 2008 at 8:14 pm

    I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

    Thank God that, amidst the dismantling of our Constitution by the Bush administration, there are so many officers like Col. Davis (and Lt. Cmdr. Swift of Hamdan vs Rumsfeld) who have demonstrated their allegiance to our country by honoring that solemn oath. I am damned proud of them.

  27. 27.

    Incertus (Brian)

    February 22, 2008 at 8:16 pm

    One of these days, there are going to be so many of these stories that Malkin, Ace, the Captain and all the rest are going to be like the Fembots when Austin Powers shakes his groove thang at them. Heads will spin, smoke, and explode, and it will be a beautiful moment in time.

  28. 28.

    myiq2xu

    February 22, 2008 at 8:27 pm

    Congress could impeach the US Attorney’s, but they. They aren’t going to do a damned thing while Bushco throws their tantrums and shits all over the Constitution.

    What’s depressing is knowing that they will suddenly remember “oversight” and “separation of powers” when a Democrat occupies the White House.

    They’ll put away the rubberstamp and hang a “DOA” sign on the door when the new Democratic Prez brings proposals to Capitol Hill.

  29. 29.

    myiq2xu

    February 22, 2008 at 8:30 pm

    I honestly believe that, if they were given information that they could advance Republican control if they sold a baby girl to a child rapist, they would actually consider the idea and at least get as far as finding a girl.

    They already tried to cover-up for Mark Foley.

  30. 30.

    Conservatively Liberal

    February 22, 2008 at 8:32 pm

    Thank God that, amidst the dismantling of our Constitution by the Bush administration, there are so many officers like Col. Davis (and Lt. Cmdr. Swift of Hamdan vs Rumsfeld) who have demonstrated their allegiance to our country by honoring that solemn oath. I am damned proud of them.

    Damn straight on that one. Any military person who has the balls to stand up to this monster the right has built (and the left let happen) earns my undying respect. I really believe that someone in this mess would be stupid enough to think that a 100% conviction rate will show the world that we are fair.

    Just as fair as those ‘elections’ in those countries with dictators where the ‘candidate’ ends up with 100% of the vote. Welcome to The Banana Republic of the Untied States of Amerika.

  31. 31.

    John O

    February 22, 2008 at 8:43 pm

    I just want to pass along a general thank you to you, John, for being a sensible conservative.

    As a semi-libertarian/anarchist/bilateral extremist, I find the ability to admit you were wrong remarkably refreshing.

    Any objective analysis will judge this Administration a disaster to the American Dream.

    Kudos to you for focusing on the few, the proud, the Americans.

    Thanks again.

  32. 32.

    Caidence (fmr. Chris)

    February 22, 2008 at 8:49 pm

    I just want to pass along a general thank you to you, John, for being a sensible an actual conservative.

    Don’t mean to be a dick, but it matters.

    /not to diss liberals either… I like both of them just fine
    //it’s just those umbilically anchored keyboard commandos I wish suffering upon.

  33. 33.

    Liberal Masochist

    February 22, 2008 at 8:52 pm

    Re: john O

    I just clicked on your handle and noticed your lead article currently is Lindsay Lohan’s spread in New York Magazine. I have one question: Has Balloon Juice devoted enough time to this? I think not. I am sick to death of MUP vs. Hill. Let’s talk some Lindsay Lohan. For the love of God!

  34. 34.

    cbear

    February 22, 2008 at 9:03 pm

    Aw crap…I posted the wrong oath. The original above is the enlistment oath.

    Here is the officer’s oath:

    I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter.

    The crucial difference being that officers do not swear to:
    obey the orders of the President of the United States .

    Theirs is a higher duty, and thankfully we have seen many of them adhere to that duty at great risk to their personal careers.

    In the case of Col Davis, it appears that he has relied upon this most central of military tenets:

    From the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

    …military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey Lawful orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey Unlawful orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ. The moral and legal obligation is to the U.S. Constitution and not to those who would issue unlawful orders, especially if those orders are in direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ.

  35. 35.

    myiq2xu

    February 22, 2008 at 9:16 pm

    I just clicked on your handle and noticed your lead article currently is Lindsay Lohan’s spread in New York Magazine. I have one question: Has Balloon Juice devoted enough time to this? I think not. I am sick to death of MUP vs. Hill. Let’s talk some Lindsay Lohan. For the love of God!

    Who hasn’t she spread for?

  36. 36.

    John O

    February 22, 2008 at 9:34 pm

    I’m a very eclectic person.

    LOL.

    There’s meatier stuff there if you look around. But still, I loves me some attractive women, if only for fun and fantasy.

    Caidence, I apologize, you’re right. Conservatism, just a whole bunch of the “old” version I like, has been perverted.

    Liberal Masochist, I enjoy a little perversion, when it is clean and sober.

  37. 37.

    jake

    February 22, 2008 at 9:35 pm

    Because of this uncertainty, some partners have reduced cooperation.

    Why doesn’t Bushel just whip out his Pen of Decideration and label the uncooperative telecoms Rouge Bad Guy Tarrist Organizations?

    Seriously, isn’t there some pre-existing law he could invoke that would force telecoms to run the taps? (Assuming the Feeb pays the bills.) We are, after all, locked in the greatest war evar.

  38. 38.

    myiq2xu

    February 22, 2008 at 9:45 pm

    Liberal Masochist, I enjoy a little perversion, when it is clean and sober.

    If it’s clean and sober, you’re doing it wrong.

  39. 39.

    John O

    February 22, 2008 at 9:53 pm

    I’m not sure Lindsay is ever clean and sober, but I’m willing to give her a pass in this case.

    I myself am not generally clean and sober on a Friday night, but this is no exception.

    And just to clarify, this photo shoot is art. Your Honor.

  40. 40.

    Conservatively Liberal

    February 22, 2008 at 10:08 pm

    I don’t know why Dumbya just takes whatever bill he gets sent on FISA, even without telecom immunity, and just use another infamous signing statement? Why is this so special?

    Do they expect me to believe that the NSA has stopped spying on anyone they want to just because of a pesky law (or lack of)? Shit, laws ever stopped King Dumbya before.

    Oh, right…. election coming! Must prepare the ground so the ‘Democrats support the turrists!’ meme can be spread real thick. Gotta give the base their red meat and raw potatoes!

  41. 41.

    ladonne

    February 22, 2008 at 10:37 pm

    go read Scott Horton’s various No Comment posts he has been all over this.

    Add that so-dangerous-Ausie to the mixture.

    I know no one likes me and that some think I am creepy, but it doesn’t mean no one else is creepy or unliked.

    Gitmo is obviously going to be left to the next president. Thanks be that the McCain story came out after Mitt bowed out. Otherwise we would have had show trials. Including a balloon-juice simulation of me convicted of being creepy.

    We dodged a bullet there.

  42. 42.

    Halteclere

    February 22, 2008 at 11:00 pm

    Police concerned about order to stop weapons screening at Obama rally

    Dallas Deputy Police Chief T.W. Lawrence, head of the Police Department’s homeland security and special operations divisions, said the order—apparently made by the U.S. Secret Service—was meant to speed up the long lines outside and fill the arena’s vacant seats before Obama came on.

    Emphasis mine.

    Does this strike anyone else as incredibly bizarre and at the very least, foolhardy?

    I attended that rally in Dallas, figuring that there were 15,000 people in attendance (Reunion Arena holds 17,000, and the place was 85% to 90% filled). The line was extremely long, winding from the building over to the nearby parking garage, and then throughout all five levels of the garage.

    I was more closer to the end of the line, which didn’t move very much the first two hours after that the doors were open, but then suddenly moved forward very quickly from then on. I sat down in the upper area just minutes before Obama came out to speak.

    Anyway, to make a long story even longer, I didn’t have to go through any security checks before entering the building (which I thought was curious, but which I also enjoyed). But I also never had a chance to get anywhere close to Obama.

    So maybe Obama, if the decision came from him, was “reckless” for allowing people to enter the arena without being searched first, but I also believe that those who were close to the stage, and probably even sitting in the bottom level did get checked out.

    As it was, if someone wanted a death wish, all they would have to do was pull out a gun with the appearance of hurting the MUP and the crowd would have torn that person to pieces.

  43. 43.

    The Grand Panjandrum

    February 22, 2008 at 11:05 pm

    If it’s clean and sober, you’re doing it wrong.

    Drunkeness and debauchery are the only twins I’ve ever done.

  44. 44.

    Zifnab

    February 22, 2008 at 11:37 pm

    The simple fact that these stories were reported at the Nation and Daily Kos would have been enough for me to disregard them, five years ago—much less the accusations themselves. But I got sick of being wrong about everything—Iraq, Plame, etc.

    With scandal like this, the only thing worse than being wrong about the crooks in office is being right.

    For starters, its awfully depressing. And on top of that, they usually won’t through your ass in Gitmo if you don’t second guess them.

  45. 45.

    Once-ler

    February 22, 2008 at 11:47 pm

    Why do we need trials? We know they’re guilty or they wouldn’t have confessed!

    What, we need confessions now? Way back in the 80’s Ed Meese once said “If a person is innocent of a crime, then he is not a suspect.” He was AG at the time. Really. So, you see, confessions aren’t needed. An accusation is enough.

  46. 46.

    TenguPhule

    February 23, 2008 at 12:38 am

    What’s depressing is knowing that they will suddenly remember “oversight” and “separation of powers” when a Democrat occupies the White House.

    What looks to be amusing will be Republican faces when they realize their oversight and subpeanas are ignored by the Democratic Whitehouse, followed by sudden audits of said Republicans by the IRS and charges pressed by the new AG.

    They’ve totally neutered the second branches powers in ball suckling to Junta Bush. Forgive me if I don’t give a shit when they find that out the hard way.

  47. 47.

    Asti

    February 23, 2008 at 1:48 am

    We dodged a bullet there.

    You think the McCain story is going to stop him from being the GOP candidate? And you thought I was an idiot? Have you forgotten IOKIYAR?

  48. 48.

    myiq2xu

    February 23, 2008 at 1:57 am

    What looks to be amusing will be Republican faces when they realize their oversight and subpeanas are ignored by the Democratic Whitehouse, followed by sudden audits of said Republicans by the IRS and charges pressed by the new AG.

    You can be sure that the subpoenas will be a bipartisan effort. The filibuster will be a stonewall against legislation (except Iraq funding, which will be veto-proof) and they may even revive the “special prosecutor” statute.

  49. 49.

    Asti

    February 23, 2008 at 2:15 am

    I know no one likes me and that some think I am creepy, but it doesn’t mean no one else is creepy or unliked.

    People here have thick skin, obviously you need to find some.

  50. 50.

    Redhand

    February 23, 2008 at 7:19 am

    The simple fact that these stories were reported at the Nation and Daily Kos would have been enough for me to disregard them, five years ago—much less the accusations themselves. But I got sick of being wrong about everything—Iraq, Plame, etc

    Paradigm of a radicalized conservative, if ya asks me. When I found myself cheering Kennnedy and Durban because of their relentless opposition to the Administration’s torture policies, I realized the dark side had flipped for me too. I’m now a registered Democrat, for the first time since my college days, and proud of it.

  51. 51.

    SGEW

    February 23, 2008 at 7:53 am

    When I found myself cheering Kennnedy and Durban because of their relentless opposition to the Administration’s torture policies, I realized the dark side had flipped for me too.

    My moment came when I was supporting France’s foreign policy positions over the U.S.A.’s. That was a bitter pill to swallow.

  52. 52.

    numbskull

    February 23, 2008 at 8:36 am

    CL wrote: “Any military person who has the balls to stand up to this monster the right has built (and the left let happen) ”

    I think that “the left” letting it happen is false equivalence on your part. I think that EVERYONE on “the right” help build “this monster”. Just about everyone on the left fought it with the exception of (IMO) a relative handful of center-right elected Democrats.

    On just about everything else that has gone wrong in the last 7 years, there has been essentially 100%, full-bore, balls-out participation by everyone on the right along with a few Dem exceptions that prove the rule. Democrats simply have not been in the same universe when it comes to how screwed up you can make things. As to “the left”, I don’t know that ANYONE who is left of center, or even in the center, actually participated in making this mess, and nearly all fought it.

  53. 53.

    myiq2xu

    February 23, 2008 at 9:52 am

    As to “the left”, I don’t know that ANYONE who is left of center, or even in the center, actually participated in making this mess, and nearly all fought it.

    We fought it, and had our intelligence questioned and our patriotism impugned.

    And now we are treated to lectures from the newly converted on the finer points of liberalism. Isn’t life grand?

  54. 54.

    jake

    February 23, 2008 at 9:57 am

    What looks to be amusing will be Republican faces when they realize their oversight and [subpoenas] are ignored by the Democratic Whitehouse will lead to investigations that will land their asses win jail.

    Fixed.

    I expect the Republicans to be veeeeewy quiet if a Dem. gets in the White House or there is a more than a hair-thin majority in Congress. The only thing we’ll hear from them will be the occasional chorus of “Forgiveness.” If any Democrat is so crass as to insist on investigations the Repubes will point out there’s no time for that because of all the economic/environmental/military/you name it/we got it crises the country is facing and look, New Orleans is still a mess!

    Of course they’ll never mention the cause of those crises because it is never time to play the blame game when a Republihead is on the block.

  55. 55.

    Svensker

    February 23, 2008 at 10:07 am

    Conservatively Liberal Says:

    I don’t know why Dumbya just takes whatever bill he gets sent on FISA, even without telecom immunity, and just use another infamous signing statement? Why is this so special?

    Do they expect me to believe that the NSA has stopped spying on anyone they want to just because of a pesky law (or lack of)? Shit, laws ever stopped King Dumbya before.

    Apparently what’s happened is that some telecom’s are scared of going illegal again, so they’re refusing to wiretap without a warrant. Via Antiwar.com

  56. 56.

    Jay C

    February 23, 2008 at 11:12 am

    Seriously, isn’t there some pre-existing law he could invoke that would force telecoms to run the taps?

    Yes, there is: the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (1978 as amended 2001) – FISA.

    Of course the government CAN still order “wiretaps” on terrorist, or anyone else they want to surveille, they merely have to apply to the FISA Court set up for the purpose, and get a warrant – with something like a one day turnaround.

    But of course, what this does is leave a paper trail (even if a hugely hidden and Top-Top-Toppiest-Secret one); and that, seemingly, is the crux of the Bush Administration’s screaming shit-fit over the renewal of the PAA. Since any lack of retroactivity immunity for the telecom companies would necessitate the eventual revelation in legal proceedings, of the Bush gang’s purposeful and cavalier disregard of a law they deem inconvenient.

    I think DNI McConnell’s pious blatherings about how the PAA expiration has “damaged” our intelligence-gathering capabilities is a enormous crock of shit (or he’s just parroting the Administration line, which is the same thing). If some surveillance is so damned important to the nation’s security, they should just go to the FISC and get a warrant – which corporations are legally obliged to honor.

    That King George the Lame has chosen to go to the wall for the telecoms’ suit-immunity (and immunity from investigation of the Administration as well!) at the cost of potential intelligence capabilities shows me where his Presidential priorities lie: covering his sorry ass for wanton lawbreaking (IMCO) is obviously No 1.: “national security” seems barely to make the list.

  57. 57.

    Asti

    February 23, 2008 at 2:23 pm

    will lead to investigations that will land their asses win jail.

    Yes, I do hope they “win jail”.

    “Mr. Big C Conservative Republican Lawmaker, you’re the next contestant on “This cell is Yours!”

    That was a lovely pun… a lovely, lovely pun! Thanks. ;)

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